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[00:09] thomaschaaf: should I write a module in c++ so that I can get the information such as netmask and gateway, etc? Is that the recommended way of doing it?
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[00:11] thomaschaaf: like netifaces for python?
[00:14] benvie: require('os').networkInterfaces()
[00:15] tuhoojabotti: hehe
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[00:17] thomaschaaf: benvie: that only gives me the ip
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[00:18] yaymukund: can I require files relative to my application's root dir? I just moved a test to a subdir and the require statements broke. This happens a lot.
[00:18] thomaschaaf: and I would like broadcast and netmask like: http://alastairs-place.net/projects/netifaces/ and if possible even gateway
[00:18] benvie: ah well that's the extent of node's offerings so it'd require either C++ or node-ffi
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[00:30] l0p: is this the right place to ask some newbie node.js/mongodb questions?
[00:30] zackattack: yes
[00:31] l0p: thanks~  i'm just starting out with a simple web service (using express) and i want it to return the number of items in a collection
[00:32] l0p: but it just seems hang
[00:32] l0p: to hang*
[00:32] l0p: i have:
[00:32] l0p: var cursor = buildings.find({});
[00:32] l0p: cursor.count(function(err, count) {
[00:32] l0p: but that callback never seems to trigger
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[00:36] yaymukund: how do i print require.paths?
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[00:36] yaymukund: I keep getting "Error: require.paths is removed. Use node_modules folders, or the NODE_PATH environment variable instead."
[00:36] yaymukund: grr
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[00:48] TooTallNate: yaymukund: don't use require.paths, it's been removed :D
[00:48] konobi: i thought it was there... but read only?
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[00:49] wowoweewoo: hi everyone! anyone have any experience using mongojs?
[00:50] TooTallNate: konobi: doesn't look like it
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[00:50] TooTallNate: thows on retrieval
[00:50] wowoweewoo: it does not, ha
[00:50] wowoweewoo: i'm trying to figure out how to grab the _id of a mongo object as i create it
[00:50] wowoweewoo: without specifying what it is
[00:51] konobi: TooTallNate: huh
[00:52] zackattack: how can i grab the epoch time in node
[00:52] TooTallNate: zackattack: Date.now()
[00:52] yaymukund: TooTallNate: just want to read the value. it works in the repl and breaks when I actually run it in node
[00:53] zackattack: thx
[00:53] TooTallNate: yaymukund: throws even in the repl for me
[00:53] TooTallNate: ☮ ~ (master) ⚡ node
[00:53] TooTallNate: > require.paths
[00:53] TooTallNate: Error: require.paths is removed. Use node_modules folders, or the NODE_PATH environment variable instead.
[00:54] yaymukund: ah, I'm using iced. so there's no way to print the require.paths? just trying to debug if NODE_PATH actually worked :T guess I'm going to have to set up a test case
[00:54] yaymukund: silly
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[00:56] TooTallNate: what are you using NODE_PATH for?
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[00:57] TooTallNate: just use npm and you should be all good :D
[00:57] yaymukund: dunno, just trying to see if I can use it to specify paths relative to my app root. still in the "hacking around to gain intuition" stage
[00:57] yaymukund: yeah, yeah
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[00:59] yaymukund: TooTallNate: thanks anyway.
[01:00] TooTallNate: yaymukund: np. i mean you could check process.env.NODE_PATH to make sure it has a reasonable value
[01:02] l0p: with node-mongodb-native, i can't seem to get any methods on a cursor returned by collection.find() to trigger their callback
[01:02] l0p: after getting a collection, i'm trying to things like collection.find().toArray(function .., or collection.find().count(function ...
[01:03] l0p: but those callbacks are never invoked
[01:03] l0p: is that incorrect?
[01:03] yaymukund: TooTallNate: undefined for me
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[01:03] TooTallNate: yaymukund: well then you're not setting NODE_PATH correctly
[01:04] TooTallNate: try like: $ NODE_PATH=./lib node script.js
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[01:04] michaelmartinez: Geddy... too prescriptive or?
[01:06] yaymukund: TooTallNate: yeah, must be me. weird.
[01:07] yaymukund: TooTallNate: thanks
[01:07] TooTallNate: yaymukund: sure thing
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[01:09] michaelmartinez: I had a listen of the last NodeUp and are checking out the various FW's/Libs 
[01:10] michaelmartinez: When a project is failing the Travis CI thing... what does that mean exactly?
[01:10] TooTallNate: it could mean just 1 test is failing
[01:10] TooTallNate: or they all are :D
[01:10] michaelmartinez: HA :)
[01:11] TooTallNate: i wish travis had a way to report number of tests and number of failures but it doesn't
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[01:11] michaelmartinez: Nice... inspires confidence when green just like my own tests
[01:12] michaelmartinez: Yeah... or a way to see the tests and/or run them right there
[01:12] michaelmartinez: Would probably be a great way to learn the FW/lib as well
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[01:14] michaelmartinez: TooTallNate: I saw some news about you the other day. Are you a member of core? Anyway, there is a mental note to congradulate you.
[01:14] michaelmartinez: congratulate 
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[01:16] TooTallNate: michaelmartinez: thank you, and yes that's correct
[01:17] tuhoojabotti: q
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[01:26] zackattack: if a function returns, does that prevent any other callbacks inside the function from executing?
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[01:27] TooTallNate: zackattack: depends
[01:27] Poetro: zackattack: yes, it depends
[01:27] Poetro: could u make up an example?
[01:27] TooTallNate: if you return before invoking the async thing that will invoke the callback, then yes
[01:28] TooTallNate: if the async thing has already been invoked, then you return, the the callback will still fire
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[01:29] zackattack: any way to prevent it from firing if it's returned?
[01:29] zackattack: maybe i could check a flag?
[01:29] Poetro: zackattack: u could detach the listener, or check some flag
[01:29] TooTallNate: zackattack: you'd have to show us an example of what you mean exactly i think
[01:30] zackattack: i'm just trying to port some synch code.
[01:30] zackattack: it looks like
[01:30] zackattack: if(cond) { callback(); }    if(cond2) { callback2(); }
[01:31] zackattack: but callback() and callback2() are themselves invoked inside callbacks
[01:31] hh__: how do you call back a call back?
[01:32] zackattack: what
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[01:33] hh__: nothing, just seems like a confusing way to go about things
[01:33] hh__: to me
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[02:04] maxogden: functions are kewl
[02:04] maxogden: the word fun is right in there
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[02:10] zackattack: 
ACTION is porting vbulletin SSO to nodejs

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[02:23] zackattack: any way to use req.cookie on a subdomain to get  cookies for the full domain?
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[02:25] zackattack: or a different subdomain?
[02:26] porjo: I have a custom log function (output to stdio + syslog) that I'd like all my modules to have access to. How can I declare and initalize the log object once, but have it visable to all my modules?
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[02:27] sammmy: Are NoSQL dbms superior to RDBMS?
[02:28] maxogden: yes always
[02:28] mmalecki: yeah, they always scale
[02:28] mmalecki: and they never fail
[02:28] mmalecki: #problemsolved
[02:29] zackattack: lol
[02:29] Aria: sammmy: Depends on whether you have a task that an RDBMS is good at or the particular noSQL you use is good at.
[02:29] Aria: sammmy: NoSQL products are similar only in that they're not SQL. A lot of them are totally alien to each other.
[02:29] sammmy: Aria: How do I know which are best at?
[02:30] Aria: Good question ;-)
[02:30] Aria: Careful analysis. 
[02:30] Aria: Learn why each was designed, know what problem it's solving.
[02:30] Aria: Memcache? raw get and set speed at the expense of all else, including a nearly pathological avoidance of durability.
[02:30] Aria: Redis? Your classic computer science primitives, networked. 
[02:31] Aria: Mongo? Flexibly shaped storage with some RDBMS-like indexing, plus some nice sharding and clustering built-ins. Trades off a little durability for write speed.
[02:31] Aria: Mysql Handlersocket? Raw table-like reads without join machinery.
[02:32] Aria: Couch is much like mongo, plus some clever synchronization stuff that makes it rock for offline use.
[02:32] mmalecki: couch has a neat real time features like _changes as well.
[02:32] Aria: Cassandra? Very fast queries on very wide tables. The tradeoff is schema changes are a pain -- it takes a stop and start to change the shape of things.
[02:32] Aria: Indeed.
[02:33] Aria: 4Store, and even more so, Neo4J? Graph-shaped access -- good for following the connections between things.
[02:34] Aria: Some of these systems lack atomicity, many lack higher-level transactions.
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[02:34] Aria: Some are really low-level (Redis and Memcache), some are very high-level (Neo4J, Mongo, Couch)
[02:34] Aria: Oh, and don't forget Git. Great for tree-shaped data, great for storing the history of trees, too.
[02:35] Aria: And great at incremental replication for intermittently connected nodes.
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[02:36] Aria: (also possible to abuse in some fun ways. Immutable objects are a nice paradigim.)
[02:38] sammmy: What is SQL good for? :|
[02:38] Aria: Ad-hoc queries of data, seeing how things relate to other things.
[02:38] Aria: Also, reasonably good transaction support. That comes at a price, always, though.
[02:43] yaymukund: global.var = 'val' works in node
[02:43] yaymukund: oops
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[02:45] brainss: Aria: Great summary
[02:45] brainss: I wasn't aware of the last few
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[02:45] Aria: Hehe. There's more, too!
[02:45] Aria: VoltDB, Dynamo, BigTable.
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[02:45] Aria: Akiban.
[02:45] sammmy: Aria: Would MySQL be good for real-time applications, or is this something a NoSQL db would do better at?
[02:45] Aria: sammmy: define 'real-time applications' ?
[02:46] Aria: What sort of data? What sort of durability? What sort of consistency requirements? What latency requirements?
[02:46] Aria: What sort of operations on that data?
[02:47] Aria: (Small tidbit: MySQL was actually first designed for logging. So it's actually really, really, really good at high-write-volume tasks.)
[02:47] joaojeronimo: Hi guys, does anyone happen to know the right syntax for ZRANGEBYSCORE with LIMIT in node_redis by mranney ? I understood how it works but can't get a clue on how to use the LIMIT on this... can't find any type of documentation or hints...
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[02:48] sammmy: What do you mean by durability, stability? Consistency? I don't want any latency, because latency means slow, right? As you can see, I'm not too familiar with all the database terminology.
[02:48] brainss: hah, voltdb is sponsering node philly!
[02:49] brainss: can't wait, definitely gonna check it out
[02:49] joaojeronimo: Gatoradecode: had the same problem. It uses about 14mb of RAM, depending on the modules you load and your code in general... You can check it with process.memoryUsage: http://nodejs.org/api/process.html#process_process_memoryusage 
[02:50] Aria: sammmy: They're all trade-offs. If you need your requests to complete faster than disks can service, you WILL have to trade off the possibility that you could lose some data if the power glitches or there's a fault.
[02:50] Aria: sammmy: Because sub-millisecond accesses are pretty much limited to RAM.
[02:51] Aria: sammmy: So that's where things like memcache and redis are good: They make those trade-offs.
[02:51] sammmy: Aria: Isn't this what redis is good for then?
[02:51] sammmy: yeah.
[02:51] Aria: sammmy: Latency isn't neccesarily bad, if you can tolerate it -- systems with higher latency often have higher throughput.
[02:51] sammmy: throughput?
[02:51] Aria: They can process more data in the same amount of time overall.
[02:51] Aria: (because often working in large batches is more efficient)
[02:52] Aria: (Like Dynamo+MapReduce vs MySQL at the same task)
[02:52] Aria: (But MySQL can often get you a smaller answer faster)
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[02:53] Aria: (But Dynamo can get you ALL the answers faster)
[02:53] Aria: It really depends on the exact task at hand.
[02:53] Aria: At work we use MySQL, in a couple ways, and memcache. Soon to add Redis and Gearman.
[02:54] Aria: We use MySQL for some relatively intensive searching -- many fields, lots of ad-hoc criteria.
[02:54] Aria: And to run a reporting server. 
[02:54] Aria: We use memcache for the moment-to-moment operation of the website. Good for having something really fast to hold session and object data.
[02:55] Aria: Just enough to keep it relatively consistent between front-end nodes. We do have some race conditions, but we've coded to tolerate them.
[02:55] Aria: (Basically, we just assume that if two actions collide, the last one must be the correct one, and so be it.)
[02:55] Aria: Redis we'll be doing some more precise things with. Keeping track of who's online Right Now with it.
[02:56] Aria: And Gearman, we'll use as storage only in so far as it holds data long enough to get it to the next thing that has to process it. Notifications, mostly.
[02:56] sammmy: Hmm. I should ask: I'm looking to stray away from SQL because it causes me pain, so what is a good replacement for it, and what are the drawbacks from moving away from SQL?
[02:56] Aria: Hehe. Depends on the task.
[02:56] Aria: NoSQL is more about having more tools for the different jobs you have to do, rather than having to only use one big tool.
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[02:56] Aria: It's not a single thing for SURE.
[02:56] Aria: Have super simple data, but need extreme speed? Redis.
[02:57] Aria: Need to follow connections between things? Neo4J.
[02:57] sammmy: Redis is just key:value stores?
[02:57] sammmy: Any data nesting in Redis?
[02:57] Aria: No, redis is a bunch of different types of data: key-value, lists of values, sets of values, and "Ranked sets" (basically, ordered lists of number:key pairs)
[02:57] Aria: Not at the top level.
[02:58] Aria: Redis would let you put json in a data value in a lot of places though
[02:58] Aria: No indexing into it. If you want to make trees, you'd have to build them out of smaller pieces though.
[02:58] sammmy: I see. I'll need hierachical data though
[02:59] Aria: Then it may not serve all your needs. (I bet most people using redis use it with something else.)
[02:59] Aria: What sort of data? Edited how?
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[02:59] Aria: Accessed by its root nodes, or would you want to index by the leaves?
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[03:00] Aria: Heirarchies are hard, in a lot of ways. We humans care about the data at the leaves, but that's often the most expensive place to get to.
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[03:03] sammmy: I'm using the closure table model in SQL atm, and that seems to be able to service all my needs.
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[03:04] sammmy: I'd like to create a database one day that's very straight forward. I'll call it DumB, but I wonder if that's already taken? xP
[03:04] Leemp: Anyone know where you would find documentation on the various built in middlewares for express? (Ie, what options various middleware can take?)
[03:04] Aria: Nice.  Those work. It does explode in complexity in some ways, but depending on the size of your trees, that might just work.
[03:05] sammmy: Leemp: Express uses Connect's middleware, and there's documentation on that. Also reference the Express guide, I suppose.
[03:05] Leemp: sammmy: Ah hah, thanks for the pointer! :)
[03:07] sammmy: Aria: I like how closure tables keep a detailed (but not overly detailed) dataset on each node. However, the deeper the nodes are nested within the tree the more rows required. A node 10 levels deep requires 11 records (I believe), while a node 1 level deep requires 2.
[03:07] Aria: Quite. That gets expensive.
[03:08] Aria: What you should do depends on how you access that tree.
[03:08] Aria: What you REALLY need to do with it.
[03:08] sammmy: But the trade off is with faster node tree selection.
[03:09] sammmy: I need to be able to get a set of ancestor nodes, I know that.
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[03:09] Aria: To what end?
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[03:09] sammmy: Aria: How do you mean?
[03:09] Aria: (Could you just index each node with its list of ancestors, and not store the tree at all?)
[03:09] Aria: I mean, what do you do with this query?
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[03:10] Aria: (a lot of NoSQL is about storing data how it's going to be accessed, not in its most-normal form, too)
[03:12] sammmy: I'd like to keep all ancestry data on every node. I wouldn't want to not know where a node is in a tree. For example, if I just stored 10 ancestors for each node, then I wouldn't have much flexibility later on if I decide I want to do other things with my tree.
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[03:13] sammmy: But I suppose if I need more from my data model, I would just have to re-model it to serve my new purpose(s)?
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[03:14] zackattack: wow, wtf, somehow my php configuration recompiled itself without mysql support
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[03:16] alejandromg: is there a method to get host information in the net module? e.g socket.getnameinfo(sockaddr, flags) ?
[03:16] alejandromg: using tcp servers?
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[03:19] Aria: sammmy: Yeah. You re-model when you need it. Keep things in an (offline, maybe) canonical form for that.
[03:19] Aria: sammmy: But you optimize for your actual normal cases. 
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[03:20] sammmy: What are you losing from RDBMS if you decide to use a document-based system like MongoDB exclusively?
[03:21] Aria: Some of the ad-hoc query stuff.
[03:21] Aria: Bulk transactional updates.
[03:21] Aria: (start transaction; update a bunch of things; commit; doesn't exist in mongo)
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[03:22] Aria: Mongo's pretty good. Lots of ad-hoc query support. Not as complete as SQL, but a lot of options. Some indexing. Good geospatial indexes. Good write speeds.
[03:22] Aria: Atomicity for a lot of common cases. No greater transactions though.
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[03:22] Aria: So you'd generate a lot of garbage if you're faking transactions with the atomic primitives it has.
[03:23] Aria: (not to mention a ton of work)
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[03:28] sammmy: Aria: what's the ad-hoc query stuff?
[03:29] Aria: When you wake up in the middle of the night and say "Oh, I wonder how many X per Y I get?" and run a quick query? That.
[03:29] Aria: The total flexibility to run whatever comparisons you want, even without indexes.
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[03:33] sammmy: Aria: there's no way to handle transactions in MongoDB?
[03:34] Aria: Not outside of a single document.
[03:34] Aria: Transactions are relatively expensive.
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[03:36] Aria: You can make some atomic updates to documents (rather than fetch-set-put) though
[03:36] Aria: And a put is atomic.
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[03:49] sammmy: Aria: You say you use MySQL at your work?
[03:50] sammmy: Aria: Do you also use Node.js combined with MySQL?
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[03:52] Aria: sammmy: Not yet, but we're getting there. We're going to rework our mail/IM infrastructure to use Node, I think
[03:52] Aria: sammmy: But honestly, this is all orthagonal. The only additional consideration with node is whether you can get a good interface library already.
[03:52] Aria: And the answer to that is usually 'yes'
[03:53] sammmy: I've been finding it awkward working with MySQL in Node.js
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[03:58] mattrobenolt: Anyone using npm much programmatically?
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[03:59] joaojeronimo: mattrobenolt: does through a bash script count ?
[03:59] mattrobenolt: *shrug* I'm playing with it, and would like to pull in a flat 'npm ls' via code.
[03:59] mattrobenolt: To get an array of modules installed with version numbers.
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[04:01] shinuza: mattrobenolt: npm ls --json does that
[04:01] mattrobenolt: I can't stop the stdout when I do:  npm.commands.ls()
[04:02] mattrobenolt: shinuza: That did not work for me.
[04:02] mattrobenolt: Via CLI. It still printed out the whole tree in "pretty" format.
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[04:03] mattrobenolt: Ahh, nevermind. My npm was far out of date.
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[04:06] mattrobenolt: I still can't find an option to suppress stdout.
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[04:11] brainproxy: mattrobenolt: what about setting process.stdout.writable = false
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[04:13] mattrobenolt: brainproxy: I'm assuming that would globally stop all stdout for the entire app?
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[04:13] mattrobenolt: Digging through npm's source, there's some options for "outfd" and it can be a stream, but I can't really figure out how to use it yet.
[04:13] mattrobenolt: Somewhere in here: https://github.com/isaacs/npm/blob/master/lib/utils/output.js
[04:14] brainproxy: mattrobenolt: wall that should work generally, I was just using process.stdout as an example
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[04:16] mattrobenolt: Blah, got it.
[04:17] mattrobenolt: npm.commands.ls([], true, function(err, data){ … });
[04:17] mattrobenolt: https://github.com/isaacs/npm/blob/master/lib/ls.js#L19
[04:17] mattrobenolt: Second parameter is "silent".
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[04:22] Qalqi: when rying to install cloud9 through bin/cloud9.sh
[04:22] Qalqi: i get o/p saying support/node-builds-v4/node-linux32: error while loading shared libraries: libssl.so.0.9.8: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[04:24] Qalqi: locate libssl.so.0.9.8 gave me this o/p 
[04:24] Qalqi: /home/Qalqi/.dropbox-dist/libssl.so.0.9.8
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[04:24] Aria: Eww. Bet you have a different openssl library. (1.0.0, rather than 0.9.8)
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[04:24] Aria: OpenSSL's ABI is horrible. They keep breaking it.
[04:25] Qalqi: but there is a file  ont his path /home/Qalqi/.dropbox-dist/libssl.so.0.9.8
[04:26] michaelmartinez: Where is the best place to see NPM modules visually?
[04:26] Qalqi: visually?
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[04:26] michaelmartinez: like a web page... 
[04:26] michaelmartinez: I can't remember
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[04:28] Aria: registry.npmjs.org?
[04:29] westg: how else do you see npm modules?
[04:30] Aria: npm show module?
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[04:34] michaelmartinez: Maybe I was projecting a bit. I was hoping to find something better than registry.npmjs.org. (I don't want to come off as a whiny bitch) But its fucking insane trying to find a package/module.
[04:34] mattrobenolt: npm search {{ module }} ?
[04:34] mattrobenolt: I don't think I've ever actually gone to the registry to search for something.
[04:35] michaelmartinez: So how do you know whats out there Ie. something you missed that is cool...
[04:35] michaelmartinez: what is
[04:35] mattrobenolt: Search for it? haha
[04:35] michaelmartinez: :)
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[04:35] mattrobenolt: Usually you know what you're looking for.
[04:35] mattrobenolt: I don't generally browse the npm registry to see what people have done.
[04:36] mattrobenolt: I know I'm looking for something that does X.
[04:36] michaelmartinez: Then download it, eval it, try to decide if there is support...
[04:36] mattrobenolt: If I find something, I usually check it out on GitHub.
[04:36] michaelmartinez: support being; active development, tests, bugs, etc
[04:36] mattrobenolt: Yeah, well, that's for you to decide. There's no science for it.
[04:37] michaelmartinez: When you don't roll it yourself, you are in a sense adopting it
[04:37] mattrobenolt: Usually, I'm ok taking on any library because I can patch any real bug I find.
[04:37] mattrobenolt: Right.
[04:37] michaelmartinez: right.
[04:37] mattrobenolt: But certain things, you're not going to want to roll yourself.
[04:37] mattrobenolt: Like a MySQL library.
[04:38] michaelmartinez: right.
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[04:38] mattrobenolt: You have to adopt modules.
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[04:38] mattrobenolt: You can generally tell a well put together module from one that was slapped together.
[04:39] michaelmartinez: Yeah, if it says authored by michaelmartinez... stay the eff away :))
[04:39] mattrobenolt: Larger modules like MySQL or something of that nature, I'm ok assuming that someone else much smarter than me wrote it.
[04:39] mattrobenolt: And the module probably has 500+ watchers on GH, full, thorough documentation, etc.
[04:40] mattrobenolt: Anything smaller, be ready to patch it yourself in a panic situation.
[04:40] mattrobenolt: We fork a lot of things for our own purposes and patch things before the upstream does if necessary.
[04:40] michaelmartinez: Good stuff. Thanks for setting me right.
[04:41] mattrobenolt: No problem. You, unfortunately, have to have some faith in others to be smarter than you.
[04:41] michaelmartinez: Dude, I know most everyone is smarter than me... 
[04:41] michaelmartinez: That isn't the prob.
[04:41] mattrobenolt: haha, then accept it and go on with your day. :)
[04:42] mattrobenolt: npm search whatever you need. Use it. If it works, awesome.
[04:42] mattrobenolt: Honestly, there isn't much more effort than that.
[04:42] mattrobenolt: Usually, if you pick a module and you can't get up and running with it, stay away.
[04:42] michaelmartinez: Nice. I am just so used to the front end world
[04:43] mattrobenolt: If the docs are clear and nice enough to get you using it without hassle, it's probably good all around.
[04:43] michaelmartinez: Winners are easily declared
[04:43] mattrobenolt: Big modules usually have clear winners.
[04:43] mattrobenolt: Like, I think for MySQL, there are only one or two libraries on top.
[04:43] michaelmartinez: Yeah, I can def see some leaders
[04:43] mattrobenolt: When you get into some obscure things, yeah, you'll have some trial and error.
[04:43] mattrobenolt: It's like that with anything.
[04:44] michaelmartinez: Most def.
[04:44] mattrobenolt: You have your top players for JS frameworks. jQuery, MooTools, etc.
[04:44] mattrobenolt: But when it comes down to a jQuery lightbox script… well, you have 1000 options. Pick one that works for you, haha
[04:44] michaelmartinez: Yeah... the front-end world everything seems really clear to me. I guess I am so new to the backend stuff... its all really hazy
[04:45] michaelmartinez: Experience. It matters.
[04:45] mattrobenolt: But usually those libraries are so small that you can really maintain them yourself. If 1000 people have written their own versions, it must not be too rough. A MySQL library or a full JS framework on the other hand, is only done by small numbers of people.
[04:46] michaelmartinez: What are you working on, are you a node dev full time?
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[04:46] mattrobenolt: Noo, I've contributed small amounts, but not a core dev.
[04:46] mattrobenolt: I'm more in Python land.
[04:46] michaelmartinez: ahhh
[04:46] michaelmartinez: cool just the same
[04:46] mattrobenolt: I've been spending some time lately going through some of my libraries adding more tests, etc.
[04:47] mattrobenolt: So I've been hanging out in IRC with some obscure questions, haha
[04:47] michaelmartinez: Nice. I am not quite there for obscure stuff. But I am banging away on the trivial shit.
[04:48] mattrobenolt: Do you play in Python land?
[04:48] michaelmartinez: I think my specialty is calculators :))
[04:48] mattrobenolt: haha
[04:48] michaelmartinez: No, I actually picked up Node to get into backend stuff a bit. Become a more well rounded dev.
[04:49] mattrobenolt: You just do frontend js now?
[04:49] michaelmartinez: Mostly...
[04:49] michaelmartinez: And mostly mobile
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[04:50] mattrobenolt: Nice. Native mobile stuff?
[04:50] michaelmartinez: Yeah, I have two android apps in the market... but I am focusing on web apps 
[04:50] michaelmartinez: calculators :))
[04:50] mattrobenolt: Then you should be fine. Node is easy compared to Java.
[04:52] michaelmartinez: Java isn't that bad... its just Java
[04:52] mattrobenolt: haha, I've stayed away from Java all my life.
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[04:52] michaelmartinez: I actually have fallen in love with JS. I mean, I married... but I would totally hit that.
[04:53] mattrobenolt: My love at the moment is Python.
[04:53] mattrobenolt: I can plow around through Javascript, I just can't make it look pretty, and that bothers me.
[04:53] michaelmartinez: Yeah... It looks really cool. Lots... nae TONS of utility
[04:53] mattrobenolt: My shit works, it just looks terrible.
[04:53] michaelmartinez: I don't think it is supposed to look pretty...
[04:54] mattrobenolt: Some people's code looks beautiful.
[04:54] michaelmartinez: True
[04:55] mattrobenolt: My Python is beautiful. Javascript is ugly.
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[04:55] michaelmartinez: Well there you go. I say go with what works for you. At least I am trying to be more like that and less of a sheep.
[04:56] joaojeronimo: I also came from Python and PHP to Javascript and was at first also thinking it was ugly... but I found beauty in the callbacks and anonymous functions :)
[04:56] mattrobenolt: haha
[04:56] Aria: I find my javascript is visually messy, but what I make holds together better with less long-term reorganization
[04:56] michaelmartinez: I am not a professional programmer, so I have some imposter syndrome and tend to be really sheepish
[04:56] mattrobenolt: joaojeronimo: The callback patterns and whatnot don't bother me at all. I just visually can't make it look nice.
[04:56] Aria: Whereas my PHP is very pretty, but I have to keep re-arranging it.
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[04:57] joaojeronimo: mattrobenolt: What's your text editor lol ?
[04:57] mattrobenolt: Sublime Text.
[04:57] mattrobenolt: And vi.
[04:57] michaelmartinez: Webstorm and sublime here
[04:57] michaelmartinez: I needz the idez
[04:57] joaojeronimo: cool. I use gedit
[04:58] mattrobenolt: joaojeronimo: Mac or PC?
[04:58] michaelmartinez: How many spaces or tabs?
[04:58] mattrobenolt: michaelhartau: haha
[04:58] joaojeronimo: mattrobenolt: PC, Ubuntu on it
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[04:58] joaojeronimo: 2 spaces
[04:58] mattrobenolt: Too fucking many. I have split pans of Terminal with more split panes inside.
[04:59] michaelmartinez: 2 spaces here as well
[04:59] mattrobenolt: And Sublime allows split panes for text editing, as well as vi.
[04:59] mattrobenolt: It's all bad.
[04:59] michaelmartinez: Sublime is awesome
[04:59] mattrobenolt: Yes it is.
[04:59] michaelmartinez: I just really like static analysis
[04:59] michaelmartinez: Webstorm is really nice for that
[05:00] Qalqi: which ide do u use for npode/
[05:00] michaelmartinez: Webstorm
[05:00] joaojeronimo: I recently found out that nano is also an awesome editor... I found a good syntax highlighting color scheme for javascript, configured it to do the automatic identation, 2 spaces, enabled mouse... it's awesome when I have no X11 available
[05:01] michaelmartinez: Ok... gotta run gents. Smell ya later.
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[05:02] Lorentz: I'm too used to netbeans
[05:02] Qalqi: wat abpout cloud9?
[05:02] westg: screen is the best
[05:03] westg: blows away the other terminal session managers
[05:03] Qalqi: screen is too complicated
[05:04] emmanuel: Qalqi: what ??
[05:04] emmanuel: you have to remember like, 5 keys
[05:04] emmanuel: and you're good to go
[05:04] emmanuel: and it's pure awesomemess
[05:04] joaojeronimo: I probably had a bad setup of cloud9, it kept disconnecting all the time... I had it behind a proxy that asked for authentication so I was sure to be the only one messing around with my code
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[05:08] justicefries: are there any good GUI toolkits for node yet?
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[05:08] Aria: NodeObjC
[05:08] Aria: Depends on what you want to do, of course. (I'm of the write once, run one place version of UI development.)
[05:09] Qalqi: does this happen to everyone ? did anyone install cloud9 correctly? i am moving on to other ide ...
[05:09] justicefries: oh, that's pretty cool.
[05:09] justicefries: I'd like more cross platform, but that's still awesome.
[05:10] joaojeronimo: Qalqi: I did not find any documented case of this so I assumed it was because of my bad installation... I think I didn't manage the websocket "upgrade" event very well with the proxy
[05:11] justicefries: and ideally one that isn't Gtk, cause gtk is so ugly. :/
[05:12] Qalqi: what do shred objects mean ?
[05:12] Qalqi: shared*
[05:12] Aria: gtk is an excellent choice. On Gnome.
[05:12] justicefries: it is an excellent choice for sure, it's all in how it looks. :P
[05:17] Aria: It's actually pretty there in context with a working theme engine
[05:17] Aria: Kinda horrible if you have to look at it next to MacOS though.
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[05:18] justicefries: exactly.
[05:18] justicefries: It's essentially for a project I was talking about earlier - building out a kids/learning complete node environment on a Raspberry PI, pre-built and setup and ready to go.
[05:24] sammmy: Is a common pattern in Node.js, to move your callbacks into "named" functions: http://jsbin.com/orebed/edit#javascript ?
[05:24] sammmy: In order to prevent indentation hell.
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[05:25] Aria: Yes.
[05:25] Aria: Also, wrapping them up as promises sometimes.
[05:26] someprimetime: anyone in here go to the microsoft meetup earlier?
[05:26] sammmy: Aria: promises?
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[05:30] Aria: Promises are basically what jQuery ajax uses: someaction().done(function() { .... }).error(whatever)
[05:30] Aria: It flattens things out some.
[05:31] Aria: People have written Node wrappers that have that sort of look
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[05:39] sammmy: Promises are objects returned that have multiple methods?
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[05:50] Aria: No: they wrap up a setter for a completion event, and usually an error event.
[05:50] Aria: They turn an event that will fire later into an object now.
[05:53] westg: can someone explain to me what it means to share code between the server and browser?
[05:58] Aria: westg: If you render initial pages on the server, but update parts with ajax, you might send just the data to the client and have the same code you used run in the browser for speed resons
[05:59] Aria: Or in a websocket protocol, where both ends send the same kinds of messages, you'd use the same code at both ends.
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[06:05] chrisdickinson: sammmy: re: promises: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.7/api/events.html
[06:06] chrisdickinson: (as i understand it, promises are pretty much === to event emitters.)
[06:06] owen1: i try to measure the time it takes to run a function. i try the benchmark package but i don't think i use it properly. any ideas? http://pastebin.com/gLB8bJnd
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[06:07] chrisdickinson: really, the API you're providing (whether it be event emitter-based or callback based) is a separate solution from using named functions.
[06:07] chrisdickinson: named functions can cut down on nesting, and make stack traces easier to read.
[06:07] chrisdickinson: event emitter / promise vs. callback is basically a question of "does this API emit data continuously, or does it just return with the full result immediately."
[06:08] chrisdickinson: EE's are good for the former, callbacks are good at the latter.
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[06:26] Slashbunny: /buffer move 14
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[06:47] balupton: Does anyone know the advantage of writing path.join('a','b','c') over 'a/b/c' as both appear to work on all platforms with node.js...
[06:52] jesusabdullah: balupton: windows uses \
[06:54] aho: windows is also fine with /
[06:55] aho: i always use / on windows, because \ is just annoying
[06:55] aho: or more precisely: \\ is just annoying
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[07:02] krsna: any idea why this wont work ? fs.mkdir(roomname,function(){res.render('confirm',{title:'Room Confirmed',roomname:file.toLowerCase()});})
[07:03] jesusabdullah: define "won't work"
[07:03] krsna: fs.mkdir callback doesnt render the template
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[07:04] jesusabdullah: is mkdir passing any errors to the callback you're not catching?
[07:04] jesusabdullah: Other than that, no idea
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[07:06] balupton: aho: yeah got that, though they both seem to work though - as in if I use forward slashes on with require or fs.readFile on windows it still works...
[07:06] balupton: so there doesn't seem to be much point of it, as node.js must normalize all paths in their core functions anyway
[07:06] balupton: right/
[07:06] balupton: ?
[07:07] krsna: fs.mkdir(path, [mode], [callback])
[07:07] krsna: do I have to pass in the mode also ?
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[07:47] Industrial: Why is cloud9 so slow with their npm updates?
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[07:48] Industrial: Isn't tagging doing a push to npm for them automatically? :p
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[07:50] Industrial: gues I can tweet them ..
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[08:01] sammmy: What does everyone think of my async currying patterning I came up with? http://jsbin.com/uhipus/edit#javascript
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[08:22] sammmy: remysharp: 
[08:22] sammmy: woops. >_<
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[08:43] Taai: Hi, I'm trying to figure out how to get utf8 character "ā" to be passed correctly to process.stdin.on('data', function(chunk) {}); I'm using it with and without process.stdin.setEncoding('utf8'); When I look at `chunk`, it's 5 bytes including \n\r
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[08:47] Taai: btw, when using `readline` object's `prompt()` and writing a long text, it get's "printed" on every `backspace` keystroke - should it be that way?
[08:48] Taai: ...so long that the text uses more than one line
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[08:55] Taai: every non-ascii character shows as  "ef bf bd" bytes
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[09:32] der_On: hello. I'm using mongoskin to connect to a mongoDB and did it wrong until now, I was reconnecting on each request. I've read its best to share the db connection and only connect once on app start, but I don't know how to share my connection object between modules?
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[09:39] Industrial: How do I install npm modules in a cloud9 project?
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[09:51] sammmy: I'd like to get an opinion on this pattern before I hit the sack: http://jsbin.com/async-curry/edit :P
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[09:53] Tom_: Any recommendations on a node.js server cloud monitoring setup? I wanted to install Munin, but that requires Apache, and these nodes have little memory so I don't want to install such excess weight just for Munin.
[09:53] Tom_: cluster*
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[10:39] sammmy: What's the module naming convention, is it foo-bar or foo_bar?
[10:46] mmalecki: foo-bar seems more common
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[10:51] sammmy: mmalecki: thanks. :)
[10:51] sammmy: What does UNMET DEPENDENCY mean when I do npm ls?
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[10:54] mmalecki: sammmy: some dep didn't get installed correctly, most likely
[10:54] sammmy: mmalecki: Oh, it's for my custom module I whipped together. 
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[10:55] sammmy: Maybe, it's because I'm not using a package.json for it yet.
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[10:57] sammmy: Though, I didn't state any deps for my module. Right now it's just .js file in my /node_modules directory.
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[11:43] augustl: I just issued a password reset for my npm user, but my e-mail address was typoed. What can I do to fix it?
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[11:45] yawNO: lol?
[11:45] augustl: lol.
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[11:46] augustl: there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to fix it
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[12:03] deoxxa: is there any way to replace the router in express (2.x)?
[12:03] Poetro has joined the channel
[12:03] deoxxa: and related: how do asynchronous templates work in express (2 or 3)?
[12:04] yawNO: async templates? what is that?
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[12:05] deoxxa: sorry, not templates - views
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[12:07] yawNO: yeah.. what are async views?
[12:08] yawNO: uhm lemme google
[12:08] deoxxa: https://github.com/deoxxa/node-ginger << is my use case
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[12:16] vdemedes: Hello!
[12:17] vdemedes: Who those who are missing the connect.router middleware in Connect 2.0 or just want to replace their current one with the good alternative - Check Route66 (http://vdemedes.github.com/route66) out!
[12:17] vdemedes: Similar route declaration, requests with parameters, in-place middleware
[12:17] vdemedes: everything you've already used to
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[12:21] deoxxa: vdemedes: can you do reverse routing?
[12:22] vdemedes: vdemedes: no, because I don't know what does it mean
[12:22] vdemedes: oops
[12:22] deoxxa: basically generating a url from a route
[12:22] vdemedes: deoxxa: no, because I don't know what does it mean
[12:22] deoxxa: https://github.com/deoxxa/houkou << like this
[12:22] vdemedes: well, I got it
[12:22] vdemedes: but what is the benefit?
[12:23] vdemedes: deoxxa: like URL generators in Rails?
[12:23] deoxxa: i'm not sure how rails works, but it's probably similar
[12:24] deoxxa: basically from the route configuration, you can generate a url with the route parameters in place
[12:24] deoxxa: so you can do something like
[12:24] deoxxa: `res.redirect(blog_post_route.generate({id: 5, slug: "this-is-something"}))'
[12:24] vdemedes: deoxxa: Rails can generate URL from model, url_for(model) if I'm not mistaken
[12:24] vdemedes: oh, I got it
[12:24] vdemedes: yeah, it's the same as in Rails
[12:25] vdemedes: Will consider this for the next release
[12:25] deoxxa: cool :)
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[13:07] Hephaistos: Ok, node is extremely exciting, but is there a real future for it?
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[13:09] Hephaistos: I guess I'm still a bit confused on what node is actually god for.
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[13:10] Hephaistos: *good
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[13:10] Hephaistos: Is it a foundation to do something like RoR or Zend but in pure js?
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[13:15] tuhoojabotti: Hephaistos: It's brilliant for quick prototyping and proof of concepts (at least for me)
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[13:15] tuhoojabotti: I haven't worked on any big projects
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[13:15] tuhoojabotti: but I can't see why it wouldn't work in them too.
[13:16] Hephaistos: Well, I'm looking to totally replace PHP/Ruby/Python in my web busines
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[13:24] timoxley: anyone know who is behind http://startic.kr/njs?
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[13:26] mmalecki: "svn 4" <- WAT
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[13:26] yawNO: mmalecki: svn.apache.org
[13:27] mmalecki: ah, apache >.<
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[13:28] yawNO: yup
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[13:51] lgomezma: hi!
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[13:52] lgomezma: is it here a good place to ask questions or should I go somewhere else?
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[13:53] Hephaistos: Yes.
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[13:54] shedinja__: where is that module that gives stats about your js files? like how many variables you use, functions, lines, etc
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[13:56] lgomezma: I'm using Flatiron and Ecstatic to serve a website and I´m trying to load an html file called layout.html in the "/" route but it seems to always load index.html 
[13:57] lgomezma: I can't find a proper way to do it, and I was wondering if you knew a way to do it or where can I find more documentation
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[13:58] mmalecki: lgomezma: code sample?
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[13:59] lgomezma: mmalecki: http://pastebin.com/6GXTcrND here is the code
[14:02] mmalecki: lgomezma: what are you requesting? / ?
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[14:04] lgomezma: mmalecki: yes I want to load layout.html when "/" is requested
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[14:05] mmalecki: lgomezma: router middleware is inserted before routes you put there. try union, it gives you greater amount of control
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[14:06] lgomezma: ok thanks!! I'll try that
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[14:09] totallymike: isn't layout typically what gets wrapped around other templates?
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[14:09] s0urce: hi
[14:09] s0urce: anyone can tell me how to setup subdomains for "http-proxy" module?
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[14:14] deoxxa: so i've been using (and enjoying) express for a while now, but i find myself needing to replace rather fundamental parts of it
[14:15] mansoor: deoxxa, join the club
[14:15] mansoor: we get matching jackets
[14:15] deoxxa: sick
[14:15] mmalecki: 
ACTION points at flatiron

[14:15] deoxxa: i want mine to be red
[14:15] alpaca: i know you from somewhere, deoxxa >.>
[14:16] deoxxa: alpaca: most likely! possibly something to do with minecraft?
[14:16] alpaca: no minecraft here
[14:16] deoxxa: oh
[14:16] alpaca: probably just somewhere on freenode :]
[14:16] deoxxa: 
ACTION shrugs then :D

[14:17] deoxxa: mmalecki: not a fan of the templating in flatiron, unfortunately
[14:17] deoxxa: i did look at it a while back
[14:17] mmalecki: deoxxa: you can still use whichever templating engine you like
[14:17] mmalecki: flatiron doesn't discriminate :)
[14:18] alpaca: so i just started with node.js, any other great resources besides the official docs?
[14:18] alpaca: just looking to get my hands on anything that is good reading and get started on a project
[14:20] chjj has joined the channel
[14:20] deoxxa: mmalecki: given that i have my own routing, templating and database stuff, what would flatiron do for me?
[14:20] Poetro: alpaca: not really. It should be enough. Although using any kind of framework will help you in the way
[14:21] Poetro: so u dont have to write those tools again
[14:21] alpaca: Poetro: perfect, what are some popular/good ones?
[14:21] mmalecki: deoxxa: plugins, probably? broadway?
[14:21] alpaca: Poetro: 
[14:21] alpaca: oops sorry :|
[14:22] Poetro: alpaca: like express, flatiron, request, some templateing system etc
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[14:22] alpaca: as of now i develop all my apps in kohana for php (save your groaning, im moving forward alright?)
[14:22] deoxxa: mmalecki: what's the state of the plugin ecosystem at the moment? are there generally good plugins for common tasks yet?
[14:23] AntelopeSalad: deoxxa: what do you find yourself needing to replace in express?
[14:23] alpaca: thanks Poetro, ill do some reading :D
[14:24] Poetro: alpaca: it depends what kind of applications you'd want to write in node
[14:24] deoxxa: AntelopeSalad: views and routing - views were easy enough, but routing is proving quite a bit trickier
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[14:24] AntelopeSalad: how would flatiron's routing system fix that?
[14:24] Poetro: alpaca: for example if u want to write console applications an options parser is a must, and there are also other tools to help u with that
[14:25] deoxxa: it... doesn't?
[14:25] Poetro: alpaca: if u want to write web apps, that needs other kind of toolings
[14:25] AntelopeSalad: oh, i only asked because i'm thinking about experimenting with flatiron too
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[14:25] alpaca: yeah, going to be writing web apps
[14:26] Poetro: alpaca: then the modules i listed should be right to get you started, whichever framework u choose
[14:26] AntelopeSalad: kind of curious though, what aspects of express' routes are conflicting with your needs?
[14:26] s0urce: anyone can tell me how to setup subdomains for "http-proxy" module?
[14:26] deoxxa: there's no way to generate urls from routes
[14:26] deoxxa: that's the main thing
[14:27] alpaca: thanks for the help Poetro 
[14:27] deoxxa: so if you have a lot of routes and a lot of redirects or links, you have to go through and manually change them whenever a route changes
[14:27] Poetro: alpaca: maybe also try geddy, that is another framework so u can have a broader choice
[14:27] deoxxa: it also makes dynamically building routes and their corresponding links hard
[14:27] totallymike: deoxxa: couldn't you use constantish variables to define the components of your route strings?
[14:28] chjj has joined the channel
[14:28] alpaca: i might check out express first, it has the most appealing name :P
[14:28] alpaca: haha im going to read about all of them though
[14:28] deoxxa: totallymike, i could, but then i wouldn't be able to validate the generated urls
[14:28] totallymike: var FOO = '/foo', BAR = '/bar'; app.get(FOO + BAR)
[14:28] Poetro: alpaca: and also listen to the recent NodeUp podcasts, they have some nice discussion on it
[14:28] alpaca: cool, im ready to dive head first into this :]
[14:29] deoxxa: i've actually got a router written already: https://github.com/deoxxa/houkou
[14:29] AntelopeSalad: wow
[14:29] totallymike: That's probably true, I'm asking more for my own benefit than anyone else's ;)
[14:29] deoxxa: it's just trying to figure out how to shoehorn it into express that's hard
[14:29] AntelopeSalad: the timing on that nodeup podcast is perfect
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[14:30] AntelopeSalad: deoxxa: how difficult would it be to tie in some type of connect support, or is that the type of model you're trying to move away from?
[14:30] AntelopeSalad: or is that a completely different concern
[14:31] deoxxa: i'm actually pretty strongly considering that exact approach
[14:31] deoxxa: i'm right now reading through the connect docs :P
[14:31] AntelopeSalad: what if you just used flatiron's middleware plugin which is backwards compatible with connect
[14:32] AntelopeSalad: and then instead of flatiron's router, you used your router?
[14:32] deoxxa: hmm, interesting
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[14:32] AntelopeSalad: from what i read i think that's the whole goal of flatiron
[14:32] AntelopeSalad: to separate all of the components so you can use whatever you want
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[14:32] deoxxa: yeah, it just feels a little fragile to me is all
[14:32] mmalecki: deoxxa: I mean, in most cases you end up wrigint your own wrapper for things, but I wouldn't expect many plugins to just pop up. it isn't what it's about, really
[14:32] deoxxa: though i haven't actually tried it, so that might not be the case
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[14:34] AntelopeSalad: i kind of think at this stage it's very difficult/probably not a good idea to use something that doesn't depend on connect
[14:34] AntelopeSalad: but i could be wrong
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[14:51] s0urce: anyone can tell me how to setup subdomains for "http-proxy" module?
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[14:58] Poetro: s0urce: what do u want to do?
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[15:03] s0urce: Poetro: hi, i want to router foo.bar.com to my apache running on port 9000 and whatever.bar.com to my node running on 8000
[15:04] s0urce: but http-proxy seems not to accept subdomains for any reason as it is explained on several sites
[15:06] s0urce: or more specific, i want to link     procject1.bar.com to /var/www/project1/ and project2.bar.com to /var/node/project2/ and this for several project each on a subdomain
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[15:07] alpaca: so, how is the job scene surrounding node.js ?
[15:07] alpaca: are there lots of jobs yet?
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[15:08] Poetro: s0urce: u can specify any host to http-proxy
[15:08] Poetro: be it any subdomain
[15:09] mmalecki: alpaca: yes. go get one (I'm totally serious)
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[15:10] alpaca: mmalecki: thats the idea
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[15:10] alpaca: that is a primary reason im learning this
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[15:10] alpaca: secondarily because it seems interesting :P
[15:10] timoxley: alpaca lots of jobs for sure.
[15:10] Poetro: alpaca: i dont think that is a good approach
[15:10] alpaca: Poetro: it might not be
[15:11] s0urce: Poetro: but how so setup a special folder?
[15:11] alpaca: at this point id just like to advance my career
[15:11] Poetro: s0urce: special folder?
[15:11] s0urce: to*
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[15:11] s0urce: i want foo.bar.com links to /var/www/foo
[15:12] Poetro: alpaca: first i'd learn whatever language i'm interested in, and THEN if i think i want to work work with it, then look for a work
[15:12] s0urce: the document root like in apaches vhosts
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[15:12] Poetro: s0urce: that has nothing to do with http-proxy
[15:13] s0urce: so how to do?
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[15:13] deoxxa: alpaca: where do you live?
[15:13] alpaca: Poetro: i think javascript is awesome
[15:14] alpaca: deoxxa: columbus, ohio
[15:14] alpaca: though im not opposed to moving :P
[15:14] deoxxa: heh
[15:14] deoxxa: we're kind of hiring in melbourne
[15:14] alpaca: there are lots of dev jobs here in town though
[15:14] deoxxa: that'd be a bit of a move though :P
[15:14] alpaca: indeed it would
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[15:15] timoxley: deoxxa you should idle in the #nodejs.au channel
[15:15] Poetro: s0urce: http-proxy is just a proxy… some http server should run for that subdomain
[15:15] deoxxa: i didn't even know that was a thing!
[15:15] timoxley: deoxxa there's sometimes about 3 of us. more the better
[15:15] deoxxa: heh
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[16:48] bLiNdRaGe: am i missing something? http://pastie.org/3622275
[16:48] bLiNdRaGe: not sure why num is coming out undefined
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[17:22] timoxley: gah. util.inspect doesn't evaluate getters. this is irritating.
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[17:23] timoxley: I'm trying out this restify thing, and can't figure out how to access the IP of the connecting machine. Anyone know?
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[17:39] bingomanatee: There is a good reason not to show get/set outputs - they are after all functions and have the potential to change state through execution. 
[17:40] bingomanatee: as well as the fact that as functions, their output can verify. 
[17:40] bingomanatee: vary that is. 
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[17:44] timoxley: bingomanatee awesome, but it'd be good to be able to opt-in to such functionality
[17:45] bingomanatee: some things will always be manual. 
[17:45] bingomanatee: (… what she said!)
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[17:47] timoxley: bingomanatee haha. bah.
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[17:49] bLiNdRaGe:  am i missing something? http://pastie.org/3622275
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[17:51] timoxley: bLiNdRaGe body is probably a string
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[17:52] rlidwka: yeah... if it's object, there would be "request: [object Object] with num: 1030"
[17:52] rlidwka: looks like a string really :)
[17:53] bLiNdRaGe: weird
[17:53] bLiNdRaGe: i thought it was a json object
[17:53] bLiNdRaGe: maybe it's being interpreted as a string
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[18:01] timoxley: bLiNdRaGe if you're using express, you probably want to use express bodyParser()
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[18:31] ppppaul: what is express for?
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[18:35] powerc9000: hello all
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[18:52] AviMarcus: I'm seeing some syntax like this in many synchronous style attempts.. what's with the two sets of ()? "safeRead(__filename)(console.log, errorHandler);"
[18:53] cjm: NodeUp will be live in about 10min, listen here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nodeup and join us in #nodeup on freenode.
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[18:54] xat--: AviMarcus: saveRead returns a function
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[18:55] xat--: and this function gets called right away
[18:55] AviMarcus: ah OK, thanks xat-- 
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[19:07] cainus: any 'resourceful' users in here?  I can't figure out how to save a new model for the life of me... create? post? save?
[19:08] cainus: none of the examples or tests seem to do that
[19:08] bLiNdRaGe: i can't overload in node can i?
[19:08] cjm: we're live - listen: www.ustream.tv/channel/nodeup and join us in #nodeup
[19:09] bLiNdRaGe: exports.get_random() = function() {} and exports.get_random(width,height,callback) {}
[19:09] cainus: bLiNdRaGe: check out the arguments object
[19:09] cainus: that's just a js question btw ;)
[19:10] bLiNdRaGe: true
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[19:10] bLiNdRaGe: never tried to use overloading in js
[19:11] cainus: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript/Reference/Functions_and_function_scope/arguments
[19:11] cainus: you can do it, but you have to do a lot more work to make it happen
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[19:22] TheFuzzball: How do I run mongodb or redis from a static file like sqlite3?
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[19:26] Draggor: huh, apparently I'm running out of virtual memory when compiling node v0.6.13
[19:27] Draggor: I can build v0.6.8 just fine
[19:28] Draggor: and it always happens durin building libv8
[19:28] powerc9000: Do you all like node
[19:29] tbranyen: i hate it
[19:29] tbranyen: its the worst
[19:29] Draggor: dog doo snow cone
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[19:35] insin: node reversed over my cat :'/
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[19:39] cainus: TheFuzzBall: redis and mongo don't work like that
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[19:51] Draggor: So, interesting, I can build up to 0.6.8, but 0.6.9 and later, I run out of memory
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[19:54] Fulwig: hi people
[19:55] powerc9000: hi guy
[19:56] Fulwig: sup 
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[19:57] powerc9000: how well do you all know node
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[19:59] davidcramer: Hey all -- looking for guinea pigs/feedback on a Node.js library for an error logging platform
[20:00] davidcramer: anyone around? I can take it to pm :)
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[20:03] mansoor: davidcramer, Greetings
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[20:05] davidcramer: this is the library I'm talking about https://github.com/mattrobenolt/raven-node :)
[20:05] davidcramer: (Sentry, if you're not familiar, is an open source logging platform, kind of like airbrake/hoptoad/exceptional)
[20:06] davidcramer: mostly curious about the setup instructions and if there's any more obvious way it should be done/etc
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[20:08] mansoor: davidbanham, this is awesome. Been looking for something like this. I am definitely going to use this :D :D 
[20:08] mansoor: woops
[20:08] mansoor: davidcramer*
[20:08] davidcramer: mansoor, ya we're trying to solidify it, node.js is our newest library that we're officially going to support
[20:09] mansoor: davidcramer, you are part of the sentry team?
[20:09] davidcramer: I built Sentry :)
[20:09] mansoor: :D BA
[20:09] davidcramer: i didn't write the node client however
[20:10] mansoor: I'm looking forward to using it
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[20:16] maxogden: davidcramer: we wrote a buncha small logging modules that we use in production https://github.com/mikeal/stoopid https://github.com/mikeal/logref https://github.com/mikeal/siofile
[20:16] maxogden: davidcramer: but ill check out your stuff
[20:17] davidcramer: maxogden, ya this is a much more contextual style of logging (its generally not good for logging things that arent exceptions)
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[20:17] davidcramer: the node.js implementation may not capture a ton of data yet, but the python one, for example, dumps a ton of context when theres an exception
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[20:44] vdemedes: Hello
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[20:45] maxogden: yes this is dog
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[21:00] timoxley: maxogden this code for america thing you're doing is pretty cool
[21:00] timoxley: saw a presentation at sxsw
[21:00] Edy: link pls :)
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[21:01] ioscale: http://codeforamerica.org/
[21:01] timoxley: yeah we need one of those in AU
[21:02] timoxley: …AUstralia
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[21:02] jesusabdullah: Get those australians to code for AMERICA
[21:02] jesusabdullah: ಥ_ಥ
[21:02] jesusabdullah: ಥ_ಥ AMERICA
[21:03] maxogden: timoxley: ya it rules
[21:04] maxogden: timoxley: i got to do open source for a year then i started a node startup after i finished
[21:04] maxogden: AND I HELPED THE CHILDREN
[21:05] timoxley: maxogden which projects were yours?
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[21:06] maxogden: all the boston stuff + datacouch
[21:07] maxogden: (datacouch is still a work in progress)
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[21:07] maxogden: but it served 90 million requests in february :)
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[21:09] vdemedes: maxogden: 90 million? Take my respect :-)
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[21:10] AviMarcus: codeforamerica seems cool.
[21:11] michaelmartinez: maxogden, did you meet Andrew Greenhill of Tucson?
[21:11] AviMarcus: There could/should be a similar thing for businesses - turn all your services into less-friction APIs with actual good Docs / FAQ / helpdesk. It's a pretty simple problem and almost boilerplate solution that seems common to so many businesses...
[21:11] sandfox: has anyone done anything GIS related-ish or nearest neighbour search for largish datasets? (i.e 20 Million plus points) in or supported by nodejs?
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[21:11] vdemedes: maxogden: do you have some production tips for Node.js?
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[21:13] AviMarcus: sandfox, there are DBs with geospatial stuff built in
[21:14] timoxley: AviMarcus that's -kinda- what the company I'm working for is doing.
[21:14] AviMarcus: e.g. "MongoDB supports geospatial indexes in 2D"
[21:14] AviMarcus: you company is building a DB or collecting data to put into a DB?
[21:15] AviMarcus: s/you/your/
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[21:15] sandfox: AviMarcus: yeah but alas all of the seem too slow… or use crappy indexing.. my data will be readonly so i'd like to use something with kdtrees as its super fast. I've written something in nodejs which does sub millisecond responses but with large datatset it consumes a lot of ram and the GC goes nuts for a couple of seconds every now and again
[21:15] sandfox: (sorry for the epic message)
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[21:16] AviMarcus: if you're querying a DB then it should all happen DB side, not in node. Am I missing something?
[21:16] sandfox: the entire index is in-memory in nodejs
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[21:17] AviMarcus: ah, OK. I've never worked with this before, only read a tad about it. (Accidentally, of course.)
[21:18] sandfox: nor me, hence my problems :-)
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[21:19] sandfox: It seems to be that the only way to get this going would to write an extension in c++ to keep the index out of V8's memory heap, but I wondered if anyone else had a better but still blindly fast solution
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[21:24] timoxley: AviMarcus sorry, I was referring to your "There could/should be a similar thing for businesses" comment
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[21:24] Brandon_R: hey guys
[21:25] Brandon_R: is it safe to use engine.io in its current state?
[21:25] AviMarcus: oh lol timoxley sorry I didn't notice I got highlighted by someone else.
[21:25] owen1: design question - i have a user object and a scrapper. currently i pass the user to the scrapper and it knows to scrape this user's urls. is it better to have a scrapper that recieves urls instead of passing the user object?
[21:26] Brandon_R: yes
[21:26] Brandon_R: composition over inheritance
[21:26] owen1: Brandon_R: there is no inheritance here.
[21:27] timoxley: owen1 better to pass urls
[21:27] Brandon_R: i mean separation of concerns
[21:27] timoxley: owen1 reduces coupling
[21:27] Brandon_R: should the scraper be concerned about the user object?
[21:27] Brandon_R: and yes, it prevents coupling
[21:27] owen1: Brandon_R: oh. SRP
[21:27] owen1: so my scrapper should be more generic. it should not care about the internals of my user
[21:27] timoxley: owen1 exactly.
[21:28] owen1: and it will be easier to reuse it
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[21:28] punter: Anyone has any experience with JSV? I'm an absolute beginner and need to speed it up a little bit (currently takes 40 ms to validate an object with 5 strings)
[21:28] owen1: since array of urls is more 'natural'
[21:28] timoxley: owen1 forget reuse, in this case it's just good design for minimal cost
[21:28] owen1: timoxley: Brandon_R thanks!
[21:28] punter: ...on an i7
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[21:30] SubStack: owen1: what are you using for scraping?
[21:31] owen1: SubStack: nom.
[21:31] Brandon_R: i like spiders
[21:32] SubStack: handy
[21:32] SubStack: owen1: also check this out https://github.com/substack/node-trumpet
[21:32] owen1: SubStack: never used anything else.
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[21:32] SubStack: might be more efficient if you need to do a lot of scraping
[21:33] owen1: cool picture!
[21:33] Brandon_R: is there any scraper that preserves state like cookies etc so i can scrape facebook?
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[21:33] Brandon_R: i like how substack uses images for his projects
[21:33] Brandon_R: i don't think anyone else does it like that
[21:34] Brandon_R: except the learn you some erlang articles
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[21:36] owen1: Brandon_R: https://github.com/substack/node-browserify   another cool pic
[21:36] punter: Noone here knows any JSV?
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[21:36] sandfox: punter: what is jsv?
[21:36] Brandon_R: i know of it punter
[21:37] punter: sandfox: Javascript Schema Validation
[21:37] punter: ok
[21:37] punter: thx
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[21:37] punter: JSON Schema Validation, in fact
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[21:39] Brandon_R: y
[21:39] warz: hrm. brainstorming ideas for something to work on.
[21:40] boltR has joined the channel
[21:40] Brandon_R: same here
[21:40] Brandon_R: how about a mips assembler?
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[21:40] ioscale: hi, did anybody implement something like method_missing in ruby to do remote procedure call's … i.e. i call a method of a stub object… of that is not implemented it goes to a directory… finds a service that knows about the method / object and calls that using rest / json
[21:40] ioscale: ?!?
[21:41] Brandon_R: gems
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[21:43] akkartik: How can I find the github url for a npm package?
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[21:43] sandfox: ioscale? some sort of facade pattern?
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[21:44] sandfox: akkartik: look in package.json inside it ? or look on the npm website
[21:44] sandfox: akkartik: or worst case, just search github for it
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[21:45] akkartik: sandfox: ah, package.json did it. Thanks!
[21:45] ioscale: @sandfox: the part that i can't seem to figure out is if it's possible to implement method missing… facade might help but i actually want ti implement very loose coupling-style
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[21:46] timoxley: ioscale you might want to look into harmony proxies
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[21:46] ioscale: aah… hear that word before :)
[21:47] ioscale: are they available yet?!?
[21:48] ioscale: i just found a project by substack which is about 80-90% what i want… without the method_missing  :)
[21:48] ioscale: https://github.com/substack/seaport
[21:48] Brandon_R: hi
[21:48] SubStack: ioscale: how would method_missing work?
[21:49] SubStack: you can use semvers for ranges
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[21:49] sammmy: How do I simply update node.js from 0.4.0 on my linux VPS to the latest release?
[21:50] sandfox: sammmy: whats o/s
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[21:50] sammmy: sandfox: linux, like I said.
[21:50] sammmy: Oh. sorry
[21:50] ioscale: let's say i have a stub of a User-class and i call user.save() which the object does not know how to do it… it calls a registry (cachable of course) and finds a service that implements user.save()… more advanced uses possible :)
[21:50] sammmy: Ubuntu
[21:50] sandfox: sammy: what flavour
[21:50] Dreamer3 has joined the channel
[21:50] sammmy: 10.10 I think
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[21:50] timoxley: ioscale you can opt-in to harmony features. check out: `node --v8-options | grep harmony`
[21:50] sandfox: sammy: how did you install it first time? did you use the chris lea PPA?
[21:51] ioscale: … it then sends the user object to that service which calls user.save() and done.
[21:51] sammmy: Yes, it's 10.10
[21:51] ioscale: @timoxley thx. found it! 
[21:51] sammmy: sandfox: I can't remember, it was a while ago. :\
[21:52] sammmy: quite awhile ago, actually.
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[21:53] sandfox: sammmy: no biggie, follow the bit here for ubuntu: https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Installing-Node.js-via-package-manager
[21:53] sandfox: sammmy: will make future upgrades easy as chris seems to track node releases very quickly
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[21:54] sandfox: if you want npm I think you have to install it separately (i.e sudo apt-get install npm)
[21:55] sammmy: sandfox: I have npm, I might need to update that too. What version of npm is latest?
[21:55] sandfox: sammmy: not sure but that PPA will update to the latest one I think
[21:56] sammmy: PPA?
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[21:57] owen1: sammmy: it's personal package from someone
[21:57] owen1: sammmy: this guy chris created a ppa and we can use it
[21:57] sammmy: It's another lib like npm?
[21:57] Guest_ has joined the channel
[21:57] sammmy: bin* not lib
[21:57] owen1: it's an ubuntu package that was not made by ubuntu guys
[21:58] isaacs has joined the channel
[21:58] owen1: but by someone that just want to share it with others
[21:58] sammmy: ubuntu package manager or package?
[21:59] owen1: the second line there is: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:chris-lea/node.js
[21:59] owen1: it will add this packages to your available repositories so you can apt-get install it later
[22:00] owen1: just follow the 4 lines there
[22:00] sammmy: owen1: node depends on python?
[22:01] sandfox: sammmy: used to for its waf build tool
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[22:02] sammmy: If I follow those 4 steps it will remove the older version?
[22:02] sammmy: ..of node?
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[22:05] rlidwka: probably... just read the output, it will ask for any of such actions
[22:06] owen1: sammmy: i just tried it. it looks like node -v still shows me the old node version.
[22:06] owen1: sammmy: let me try open new terminal
[22:06] rlidwka: it depends on how the old version was installed
[22:06] sammmy: rlidwka: 0.4.0
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[22:07] owen1: rlidwka: 0.5.0pre
[22:07] owen1: rlidwka: dpkg shows me the new version, btw.
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[22:08] owen1: rlidwka: i believe i installed 0.5.0 from sourcce
[22:09] rlidwka: let me guess... /usr/bin/node -v is the new version, /usr/local/bin/node -v is the old? :)
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[22:09] sammmy: owen1: I don't even see node in my list from dpkg -l
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[22:09] rlidwka: if you installed it from source, you will have such problems because dpkg doesnt know anything about it
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[22:10] owen1: rlidwka: you are correct about the versions
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[22:10] owen1: rlidwka: so how to get rid of the old one that i installed from source?
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[22:11] sammmy: Yes, it's in /usr/local/bin/node. But like owen1 said?
[22:11] rlidwka: owen1: "make uninstall" in old source directory might help i think
[22:11] rlidwka: but "rm" works too :)
[22:11] owen1: rlidwka: not sure if i have that folder
[22:11] sammmy: rm node?
[22:12] owen1: sammmy: no. the folder of the source.
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[22:12] owen1: sammmy: i don't think i kept this folder
[22:12] rlidwka: rm /path/to/old/node
[22:12] owen1: rlidwka: oh. let me try
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[22:12] rlidwka: or just rename it
[22:12] sammmy: rlidwka: but that wouldn't remove all the other files associated with the old node, would it?
[22:12] rlidwka: yes it wouldn't
[22:13] sammmy: 
ACTION is a windows users...used to having an uninstaller. xP

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[22:13] sammmy: rlidwka: is that because the only file associated with node is that one single file?
[22:13] owen1: rlidwka: i guess i can rm npm as well, right
[22:13] owen1: ?
[22:13] owen1: i see it in /user/local/bin
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[22:14] isaacs: sammmy: you can remove node from the Add/Remove Programs dialog, if you used the msi to install it
[22:15] isaacs: sammmy: oh, you're not using it on windows, you're just a windows user.  i get it :)
[22:15] sammmy: isaacs: yeah. :P
[22:15] sammmy: haha
[22:15] rlidwka: owen1: i think new dpkg is installed to /usr/bin, right?  so, you can remove anything you want from /usr/local and it shouldnt affect the node
[22:16] owen1: rlidwka: yeah. i just did it. 
[22:16] sammmy: Still trying to figure this out. You're saying that it's as simple as npm /path/to/old/node and it'll remove all the node modules I had installed too?
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[22:16] sammmy: rlidwka: do you mean the new npm?
[22:17] Brandon_R: hi
[22:17] owen1: sammmy: i just rm both npm and node, and installed npm with aptitude. it's fine now.
[22:17] owen1: as soon as i rm node, node -v changed to the recent one.
[22:17] sammmy: owen1: Okay. Are all your old modules gone too? I'm sort of a neat freak.
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[22:18] owen1: sammmy: not sure. let me do npm list
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[22:18] owen1: sammmy: it's empty, but i am not sure if i had any. a few months ago i didn't know what a module is..
[22:18] sammmy: owen1: it looked like modules I have are installed under /usr/local/bin too.
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[22:19] Brandon_R: owen1 hi
[22:19] sammmy: owen1: Ah. Well, beside, npm uses a new local packages system anyway. I just don't want unwanted shit lying around. xP
[22:19] owen1: sammmy: i see node_waf theree..
[22:19] owen1: sammmy: do u think i can rm it as well?
[22:19] owen1: Brandon_R: yo
[22:19] sammmy: sammmy: Maybe. :
[22:19] sammmy: sammmy: Maybe. :\
[22:19] Brandon_R: wanna grab a bite to eat?
[22:20] owen1: Brandon_R: let's do it
[22:20] sammmy: I'm eating too! XD
[22:20] Brandon_R: nom
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[22:20] sammmy: 
ACTION is eating stirfry

[22:20] owen1: i am acutally refactoring my scrapper/user objects now
[22:20] owen1: (no tests..)
[22:21] sammmy: owen1: what version of node did you have beforehand?
[22:21] owen1: speaking of tests, what package do people use for tests?
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[22:21] owen1: sammmy: 0.50.
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[22:21] Brandon_R: vows
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[22:21] owen1: 0.5.0
[22:21] timoxley: owen1 mocha.
[22:21] owen1: Brandon_R: it has nice website. did u try mocha?
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[22:22] owen1: are both vows and mocha for unit tests, acceptance tests or both?
[22:22] Brandon_R: i aught to try mocha
[22:22] owen1: in ruby i use minitest for unit and capybara for browser/acceptance.
[22:23] owen1: not sure if node has the same separation
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[22:25] sandfox: owen1: if SubStack is around he'll let you know his view of mocha...
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[22:25] sammmy: owen1: how'd you install it with aptitude?
[22:25] owen1: sandfox: awesome
[22:25] owen1: sammmy: sudo aptitude install npm
[22:26] SubStack: owen1: what is an "acceptance test" and why does that need to be a different category from a "unit test"
[22:26] owen1: (after installing node)
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[22:26] sandfox: and the beast  awakes...
[22:26] owen1: SubStack: acceptance, in my view is full stack, end-to-end, user tests. 
[22:26] owen1: running the browser and hitting the db, etc.
[22:26] sammmy: owen1: I get an error
[22:27] owen1: SubStack: in unit tests i try to test a class/function and not hitting the db of http calls, if possible.
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[22:27] owen1: sammmy: doing what?
[22:27] kesor: how do i know which module is the latest/best for a certain task? for example I want a jasmine runner, but there are 22 modules for npm search jasmine. I don't really have time to evaluate all of them … :/
[22:27] sammmy: owen1: sudo aptitude install npm
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[22:28] owen1: sammmy: what error do u get, and do u have the latest node?
[22:28] sammmy: owen1: says it cannot find the package.
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[22:28] owen1: sammmy: node -v
[22:28] sammmy: Oh, I have to install the latest node first? xP
[22:28] SubStack: that is a silly way to think about doing testing
[22:28] owen1: sammmy: yeah, follow the 4 lines from github
[22:29] sammmy: ok
[22:29] rlidwka: kesor: see a number of watches and forks on github + last updates
[22:29] owen1: SubStack: that's what i currently do on my ruby/rails/sinatra
[22:29] owen1: SubStack: please show me the node way
[22:29] kesor: rlidwka: any web page that summarizes that information anywhere? …
[22:30] owen1: so far in node i used jasmin-node, but willing to try mocha/vows or whatever
[22:30] kesor: any good unit testing tutorial for nodejs you can recommend?
[22:31] rlidwka: kesor: try http://toolbox.no.de/
[22:31] kesor: rlidwka: sweet. thanks.
[22:32] rlidwka: and http://search.npmjs.org/ , but you probably already know this
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[22:33] sammmy: owen1: I see now. ppa is a package list, in other words it helps aptitude recognize the nodejs and npm packages?
[22:33] netxshare: could someone take a look at this for me? 
[22:33] owen1: sammmy: i think it will add node to your available packages
[22:33] owen1: and npm
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[22:34] netxshare: http://www.privatepaste.com/ce98816d5e this.pool in getdata is undefined
[22:34] netxshare: wondering what I am doing wrong
[22:34] sammmy: owen1: right. I see.
[22:35] kesor: i'm quite new to nodejs. so just started looking around at whats available, hogan.js is mustache.js, and jade is haml? any preference either way?
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[22:36] sammmy: Why isn't there a way to remove the older version of node using a package manager? Instead i have to manually remove the files.
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[22:36] owen1: sammmy: what files? node and npm?
[22:37] rlidwka: sammmy: because the older version wasn't installed using a package manager?
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[22:37] sammmy: owen1: yeah, /usr/local/bin/node and /usr/local/bin/npm
[22:37] sammmy: rlidwka: oh. I couldn't remember if it was. Sense when has it been now?
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[22:38] rlidwka: so, package manager have no way of knowing if some file is related to node... how can it uninstall it?
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[22:39] sammmy: rlidwka: Yeah that makes sense.
[22:40] kesor: is anyone using jade+hogan together, or that doesnt make any sense?
[22:41] SubStack: owen1: anyways take a look at https://github.com/isaacs/node-tap
[22:41] sammmy: Where are all the latest node files located, just so I know not to delete those ever?
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[22:44] sammmy: I sudo rm /usr/local/bin/node, and then node -v returns: "-bash: /usr/local/bin/node: No such file or directory" -.-
[22:44] rlidwka: sammmy: try "dpkg -L node.js" command (where node.js is a name of installed package)
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[22:45] jperkin: most shells keep a hash of accessed files, run 'hash -r' to update it then you won't get that error (but probably a different one instead)
[22:45] sammmy: rlidwka: I tried: dpkg -L nodejs and it gave me a large list of directories.
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[22:46] sammmy: I guess I have to set my PATH env var?
[22:46] rlidwka: sammmy: yeah... that's it. All the latest node files. :) 
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[22:46] owen1: SubStack: tap looks interesting. trying it now. 
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[22:50] kesor: is express with jade/stylus a popular choice for small web apps?
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[22:51] timoxley: kesor yes
[22:52] timoxley: kesor there are plenty of good alternatives though
[22:52] kesor: look very similar to sinatra/haml/sass in ruby
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[22:52] kesor: i just started digging into nodejs, there are too many alternatives, its all very confusing.
[22:52] timoxley: kesor yes, it's quite familiar if you've previously worked in that space
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[22:54] timoxley: kesor http://toolbox.no.de/ and http://startic.kr/njs might help
[22:55] kesor: yeah, already seen toolbox. thanks for the other link.
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[23:00] owen1: SubStack: tap not working unless i install it with -g
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[23:01] SubStack: owen1: I usually run the tests with node anyways
[23:01] sammmy: /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games
[23:01] sammmy:  is my PATH, yet node is not found? :S
[23:02] SubStack: owen1: bin scripts only get installed globally into your $PATH when you install -g
[23:02] SubStack: it's not just a tap thing
[23:02] owen1: SubStack: yeah. it's not working even with -g. i get : Error: Cannot find module 'tap'
[23:02] owen1: when i try to require it.
[23:03] owen1: (from test.js or from the node console)
[23:03] SubStack: kesor: I like to pull down json with ajax and skip templates altogether
[23:03] owen1: npm list -g|grep tap => tap@0.2.4 
[23:03] kesor: SubStack: so the html files are just static and served with the webserver, and nodejs is just for json browser->server communication?
[23:04] SubStack: pretty much
[23:04] SubStack: or I use dnode when I need more complicated browser<->server interaction
[23:04] kesor: sounds suitable for my needs as well actually.
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[23:05] SubStack: and I use browserify to stitch all the front-end code together
[23:05] owen1: kesor: are u going to render the html on the client? u can still use templates, right?
[23:05] SubStack: so I can use node-style require()s browser-side
[23:05] kesor: owen1: no, really no reason to render templates on client side.
[23:05] sammmy: Dur. Just had to restart my console. I wonder why though. xP
[23:05] owen1: kesor: so where do u render them?
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[23:06] kesor: owen1: server-side, and as SubStack said they will probably be just static html.
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[23:07] owen1: kesor: ok. so u serve static html to the client, and make more calles to node to get some json?
[23:07] kesor: yep
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[23:08] owen1: and where do u connect the json to the html? not on the client? or on the client, but not using templating?
[23:08] dafuq: guys anyone having duplicate messages when doint interprocess communication with node cluster?
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[23:08] kesor: owen1: without templating, there will be some logic … but its an interesting idea to use templating to make it a bit easier.
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[23:18] jgautier: hey i have an arduino connecting up to a node server via tcp, the arduino connects up but when i disconnect it the 'close' event doesnt fire. any reason the 'close' event wont fire?
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[23:23] sammmy: Where's the best place to put all my node apps on my Ubuntu VPS?
[23:23] sammmy: I have my PHP site under /var/www/
[23:23] deoxxa: i keep mine in ~/apps
[23:23] deoxxa: pretty ad-hoc really
[23:24] sammmy: the user's home directory?
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[23:24] deoxxa: well, a user's home directory
[23:24] sammmy: Yeah.
[23:25] dscape: SubStack: yt? D:
[23:25] sammmy: I suppose I could just move it anywhere I want after I make it, all the deps and whatnot are all in one directory, true?
[23:26] deoxxa: sammmy: generally yep
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[23:28] sammmy: What is the /var directory used for really? Does it just stand for variable stuff, kind of like miscellaneous?
[23:28] deoxxa: that's meant to be the "writable" directory
[23:28] deoxxa: where database content, websites, etc live
[23:29] kesor: its documented in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
[23:29] deoxxa: ^^
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[23:44] kesor: god i love bootstrap
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[23:47] deoxxa: kesor: agreed
[23:47] deoxxa: i'm yet to explore styling it, but it's a massive time saver for basic stuff
[23:48] deoxxa: you get neat looking forms and menus and all that stuff for free - pretty great
[23:48] kesor: well, they have an online less compiler so you can change the colors with just their website
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[23:48] deoxxa: yeah true
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[23:49] kesor: i also found a jquery-ui skin that mimicks bootstrap
[23:49] deoxxa: urrr that sounds awful
[23:49] deoxxa: i'm not really much of a fan of the jquery dependency in bootstrap
[23:49] kesor: well, jquery-ui has some nice stuff like drag-n-drop, autocomplete, etc ...
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[23:49] deoxxa: it's just so heavy
[23:50] kesor: wish there was something lightweight that did it … but i'm not aware of any such thing.
[23:50] mansoor: why dont' you just include the parts that you want? You can build it on their site
[23:51] kesor: the jquery-ui parts, sure, but then the colors don't fit. thats why I found that jquery-ui bootstrap theme useful.
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[23:51] mansoor: I want to make a UI library
[23:51] mansoor: need a designer to partner with :D
[23:51] mansoor: not like bootstrap
[23:51] mansoor: but like jquery UI
[23:51] mansoor: with a hint of bootstrap
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[23:52] kesor: there is also the visionmedia uikit, which is nice. but it does not have the stuff from jquery-ui that make it useful.
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