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[00:09] Leemp: For anyone who is familiar with Jade.. Have "partials" been replaced by extends/block/include  ? I was viewing a tutorial on nodetuts.com, and i noticed that the jade documentation doesn't even have a section for partials. Thoughts?
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[00:12] warz: i didnt know jade used blocks, extends, etc.
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[00:12] warz: i might actually look into it, now.
[00:12] sorensen: pretty django like
[00:12] sorensen: Leemp: partials are still valid
[00:13] enjalot: Hi all, I'm trying to use the request module to download an image from another service. I can't seem to write the image out as a valid jpg. not sure how to figure out what format its coming in as and how to transform it (if i have to)
[00:13] Leemp: sorensen: So, extends/etc are the replacements? I suppose i was mostly just trying to understand why i didn't see them documented at all.. i thought i was going nuts :s
[00:14] sorensen: they arent replacements per say
[00:14] sorensen: they provide different functionality
[00:14] Leemp: Huh.. but they're not in the documentation at all
[00:14] Leemp: Unless they're called something else :s
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[00:15] Leemp: In the entire Jade readme, "partial" only exists once
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[00:15] tjholowaychuk: Leemp partial() isnt a jade concept
[00:15] tjholowaychuk: it's just a function that express provided in 2.x
[00:15] tjholowaychuk: ejs etc could use it too
[00:15] Leemp: ah hah
[00:15] sorensen: ah that right
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[00:15] Leemp: Thank you
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[00:16] sorensen: i only ever use jade with express
[00:18] sorensen: enjalot: are you having an encoding issue?
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[00:20] enjalot: sorensen: i think i am. but i'm not sure how to check for that
[00:20] enjalot: sorensen: i've random walked through every combination of binary and base64 conversions
[00:20] enjalot: my data comes back as a string if i do typeof
[00:21] chapel: sorensen: quit spreading lies
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[00:21] sorensen: D:
[00:22] sorensen: enjalot: i was having trouble doing the same with pdf's
[00:22] sorensen: it ended up being to keep the request data as a buffer
[00:22] sorensen: and writing binary
[00:22] sorensen: chapel: stop picking on me
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[00:23] chapel: well
[00:23] chapel: just pipe it
[00:23] chapel: request can pipe
[00:24] sorensen: that too
[00:24] sorensen: you can pipe it right into the filestream
[00:24] solhive: Hello, I am working on a MUSH server in node and I am looking for a good way to manage the sockets and player sessions. Does anyone have any recommendations on how to manage a collection of sockets efficiently?
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[00:50] coderarity: anyone got a good channel to ask about CSS in?
[00:50] Octayn: #css
[00:50] vicapow: lol
[00:51] vicapow: coderarity: pm me maybe I can answer
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[01:16] jaha: hey, if I run "git fetch" through a node.js child process and that git fetch is going over ssh, it doesnt see my identities
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[01:17] jaha: i bascially want to run a series of git commands through node (most of the npms for this are lacking what i need)
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[01:17] Octayn: does it check env vars?
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[01:20] jaha: do i set those as part of the command?
[01:20] AvianFlu: jaha, it's an option to spawn
[01:20] AvianFlu: I think it's just options.env, and you give it an object
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[01:20] AvianFlu: I'd recommend double-checking the docs
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[01:21] jaha: yea i see that, guess im not sure what to give it
[01:21] jaha: OH
[01:21] jaha: nvm, im an idiot
[01:21] Octayn: That's why I asked: does it (git) check env vars?
[01:21] Octayn: (silly type)
[01:21] Octayn: *typo
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[01:55] [weev]: hey when is version 1.0 out?
[01:55] Octayn: when it's ready
[01:56] [weev]: ok cool can u follow me on twitter
[01:56] [weev]: i want to get a higher klout
[01:56] [weev]: to publish to my linkedin
[01:56] [weev]: 
[01:56] [weev]: and forward my career in social media
[01:56] [weev]: FWD: my career 
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[02:19] tony___: hello everyone
[02:19] tony___: is this the right channel to find resources
[02:19] [weev]: hey tony_______________________________________________________________________________________________
[02:20] [weev]: yes i am a resource
[02:21] [weev]: ready for ur commands sir
[02:21] [weev]: I'm event driven
[02:21] tony___: ok cool, how can we talk private
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[02:23] prakash__: hi
[02:23] prakash__: i  am trying to make node on windows  through cygwin
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[02:24] php_on_rails: gcc make
[02:24] php_on_rails: tony___: msg me
[02:24] wingie: prakash__: node should work without cygwin on windows i think
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[02:24] AvianFlu: it does
[02:24] AvianFlu: quite well
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[02:24] AvianFlu: use native
[02:24] prakash__: what is the way to install node on windows
[02:24] prakash__: windows 7 , 64 bit
[02:24] php_on_rails: i heard on windows node.js uses waitformultipleobjects and u can't have more than 63 incoming streams
[02:24] php_on_rails: is that true?????
[02:24] php_on_rails: thats pretty non web scale
[02:25] wingie: https://github.com/joyent/node
[02:25] wingie: prakash__: ^
[02:25] grimboy: How many people on this channel are trolls?
[02:25] prakash__: let me check out above link
[02:25] grimboy: I count at least 2.
[02:25] wingie: grimboy: why?
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[02:30] flazz: is there a canonical way to run executables in node_modules without typing the whole path?
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[02:33] konobi: flazz: install using -g
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[02:34] flazz: konobi: without installing globally? because stuff can get out of sync
[02:34] flazz: is there some way to tell the node search path to look locally first?
[02:34] konobi: flazz: add './node_modules/.bin' to your PATH?
[02:35] flazz: i'll try it, thanks
[02:35] flazz: konobi: seems to work, thanks!
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[02:40] php_on_rails: hi
[02:40] Brandon_R: hi php on rails
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[02:42] wingie: what OS is the node.js team using to develop node?
[02:43] wingie: Mac or Linux? If linux, what distro
[02:44] php_on_rails: d:) 
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[02:56] Brandon_R: most likly mac
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[02:57] benben: could someone explain mongojs entries to me? i'm a little thrown off that the examples don't use quotes around the entry parts
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[02:57] benben: it's confusing because if i'm putting an array of objects within an entry, i'm not sure what syntax to use
[02:58] wingie: anyone who can confirm this?
[02:58] benben: like db.users.save({privatemessages: [{'content':'this is content'})
[02:59] benben: would that be correct syntax?
[02:59] benben: well ignoring my typo on the last char
[02:59] benben: thoughts, anyone?
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[04:00] alejandromg: SubStack: can I use bouncy with tcp servers?
[04:01] SubStack: alejandromg: nope
[04:01] alejandromg: SubStack: any alternative?
[04:01] SubStack: alejandromg: what are you trying to do?
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[04:03] alejandromg: SubStack: (for nodester) we are using bouncy to distribute apps, but we have some tcp servers that need also to be distributed
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[04:13] SubStack: alejandromg: you should use something like a service registry for that
[04:13] SubStack: not a balancer
[04:14] SubStack: https://github.com/substack/seaport
[04:14] alejandromg: yeah! I'm reading about that right now, I was asking just because we want to support through bouncy
[04:15] alejandromg: SubStack: seaport looks like what we need
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[04:18] TooTallNate: benvie: you should move the examples to the top of the readme imo
[04:18] TooTallNate: also
[04:18] TooTallNate: add a package.json!
[04:19] SubStack: if readmes don't have examples I usually just ignore the whole project
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[04:20] TooTallNate: SubStack: context: https://github.com/Benvie/reified
[04:21] TooTallNate: this is why package.json's are even more sweet https://gist.github.com/2052694
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[04:22] westg: is 0.8 actually out yet?
[04:23] torvalamo: no
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[04:32] benvie: oh
[04:32] benvie: hm
[04:32] benvie: yeah I need to clean them up
[04:32] benvie: maybe move like one or two of the good ones to the top
[04:32] benvie: like the triangle one would be good as an introduction
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[04:33] benvie: oh and yeah
[04:33] benvie: package and publish on npm
[04:33] c4milo has joined the channel
[04:34] benvie: wasn't ready to be published until maybe today, I noticed like 20 people followed it since last night which leads me to believe it was posted somewhere
[04:35] wingie: what level of npm package version specificity are you guys usually using: 1.1.1, 1.1.x, 1.x.x or * ?
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[04:36] TooTallNate: benvie: https://twitter.com/tootallnate/status/180527029228281856
[04:37] benvie: oh there it is =D
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[04:44] wingie: 1.x.x should be okay to use i guess since it should be none breaking changes..only bug fix and features commits
[04:44] wingie: if they follow semver
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[04:45] hkhalid: does anyone here use android with nodjs
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[04:47] AvianFlu: wingie, your life will be saner if you always freeze your deps
[04:47] hkhalid: 
ACTION slaps AvianFlu around a bit with a large trout

[04:47] AvianFlu: i.e. set specific and go back and upgrade later
[04:49] SubStack: wingie: hahaha false
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[04:49] SubStack: fixing bugs often entails breaking the api
[04:49] arlink: does node.js have an async array?
[04:50] SubStack: wingie: also look at node's verisoning, minor version bumps are massively incompatible
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[04:51] SubStack: 1.2.x or ~1.2.3 is sometimes safe if the package/author has a good track record of making sane mostly compatible patches
[04:51] SubStack: but if you are developing an application it's different from writing libraries
[04:53] wingie: SubStack , AvianFlu : so bottom line is to use specific version
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[04:54] wingie: i've heard that node.js can require() json files 
[04:54] wingie: but i get error while trying to do that
[04:54] wingie: "SyntaxError: Unexpected token :"
[04:54] wingie: while running: var config = require('../config.json');
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[04:55] benvie: ok added package.json and fixed docs
[04:55] benvie: awesomesauce
[04:55] konobi: wingie: does it validate on jsonlint?
[04:56] wingie: konobi: yepp
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[04:56] wingie: https://gist.github.com/2055119
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[04:59] konobi: huh
[04:59] wingie: konobi: ?
[04:59] konobi: looks like it should work
[04:59] wingie: yeah i know
[05:00] wingie: hm it just doesn't work when running the file on cloud9ide
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[05:00] wingie: i've noticed that it works on the console 
[05:00] wingie: yeah :)
[05:01] brainss: ls
[05:03] wingie: brainss: that was for me?
[05:04] brainss: wingie: just tried to ls in the wrong screen
[05:04] brainss: :D
[05:06] AvianFlu: one can always tell the irssi users
[05:07] brainss: lol
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[06:00] zackattack: can i use underscore in node =D
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[06:05] Avanine: i think so.
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[06:07] Avanine: I don't see why not, but i've never tried it, zackattack.
[06:07] michaelmartinez: client side?
[06:07] michaelmartinez: I actually don't think it matters
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[06:07] Avanine: works fine in node.
[06:07] Avanine: just tested.
[06:09] zackattack: cool
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[06:14] hh__: there's an npm module so yea
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[06:25] zackattack: duuurrr
[06:25] zackattack: is there any way to tell whether mongoose really connected
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[07:35] yawNO: morning
[07:35] someprimetime: anyone going to the microsoft developer bootcamp tomorrow? 
[07:35] someprimetime: for node.js
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[08:30] Bonuspunkt: someprimetime isnt microsoft main focus deploying on azure?
[08:30] someprimetime: they are hosting a node bootcamp tomorrow (or more like today) in SF
[08:30] someprimetime: http://nodejsatrocketspace.eventbrite.com/
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[08:38] zackattack: anyone here a mongoose guy? 
[08:39] yawNO_: just ask
[08:39] zackattack: any way to print whether the mongodb connection successfully established? 
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[08:40] yawNO_: check what mongoose.connect() returns
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[08:40] yawNO_: seems the most logical option
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[08:42] hh__: whats going on in the blogosphere
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[08:50] zackattack: SO to the rescue
[08:50] zackattack: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6676499/is-there-a-mongoose-connect-error-callback
[08:50] zackattack: yawNO_:  i had tried your suggestion :)
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[08:52] hh__: i have a question about how async works in node, basically how does it work?if it's single threaded and all that
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[09:07] zackattack: -what templateing engines do you guys like to use
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[09:13] SubStack: I wish the pipes in core were stoppable and had buffering with limits
[09:13] SubStack: or actually
[09:13] SubStack: I just wish mikeal's morestreams modules could do that
[09:13] skylamer`: zackattack it dependz
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[09:14] zackattack: i'm using jade
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[09:16] skylamer`: yea its good
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[09:21] zackattack: i don't understand its api
[09:21] zackattack: can i do inline javascript or access the window obj?
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[09:25] zackattack: can i get a reference to a variable passed in?
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[09:26] hh__: through render ya
[09:27] zackattack: render?
[09:27] hh__: http://expressjs.com/guide.html#view-rendering
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[09:27] zackattack: hh__:  i mean within a <script> block inside jade.
[09:28] skylamer`: yes u can :)
[09:28] hh__: eh?
[09:28] zackattack: how?
[09:28] hh__: you can't pass variables to jade templates for the backend
[09:29] zackattack: skylamer`:  how?
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[09:30] hh__: if you wanted to "pass" a variable to <script> you can
[09:31] skylamer`: in the views just pass it . . .
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[09:33] hh__: that's what i already said, he doesn't want tht
[09:33] hh__: i'm not sure what he wants exactly
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[09:37] konobi: XY Problem
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[09:50] staar2: hello
[09:51] staar2: https://gist.github.com/2018811 this examples should wake up all the cores ?
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[10:02] rook2pawn: if you express.createServer({key:fs....,cert:fs..}, fn1,fn2,...), will the server be served as https?
[10:03] konobi: staar2: depends on your OS kernel cpu scheduling
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[10:03] SubStack: rook2pawn: looks like it http://expressjs.com/guide.html#creating-an https server
[10:05] staar2: konobi, ubuntu 64bit, i7 uses only one core
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[10:06] rook2pawn: do you know if the key option means the private key generated when creating the CSR
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[10:06] rook2pawn: with openSSL
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[10:26] socketio\test\23: testtest
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[10:33] tuhoojabotti: lulz
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[10:48] vuanhvan: try to using node.js
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[11:07] tuhoojabotti: http://urly.fi/Xg unrelated
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[11:26] manya: dd
[11:26] manya: ������
[11:26] manya: leagu of
[11:26] manya: test
[11:26] socketio\test\60: ㅁㄴㅇㅁㅇ
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[11:26] socketio\test\60: test
[11:26] socketio\test\60: nodejs
[11:27] socketio\test\60: nodejsinputtest
[11:27] socketio\test\60: gooooooooooood
[11:27] socketio\test\60: spaceshit
[11:27] socketio\test\60: 외계어
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[11:28] manya: test
[11:29] tuhoojabotti: Get a test channel, people.
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[11:36] wingie: is there a way to search for all npm packages for a specific author?
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[11:38] mansoor: wingie, throught the i think it is possible
[11:39] mansoor: *though the site
[11:40] wingie: mansoor: you know how?
[11:40] wingie: http://search.npmjs.org/
[11:40] wingie: oh
[11:40] wingie: "browse"
[11:41] wingie: is it me or is the site freezing when you enter http://search.npmjs.org/#/_browse/author
[11:44] mansoor: yah its hacky
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[11:55] wingie: i've added keywords array in package.json but when listing it with "npm search" i can't see the keywords listed
[11:56] dmilith: Hi. I have question about using values in node from outside callback functions.. I mean I have: http://i.verknowsys.com/2y302I0M0a1v3x2r193R 
[11:56] dmilith: and it gives me: ~ Err: null, ids: gzw1ehplbkfepv56i1qk
[11:57] dmilith: so id is loaded inside of that callback
[11:57] dmilith: but in next line I have: http://i.verknowsys.com/372h38450p0r3R1p0t1E
[11:57] dmilith: and I would like to use value of that id to be put just like one of that properties in @render
[11:58] dmilith: for instance ids: ids
[11:58] dmilith: any good way to pass this value outside the callback function?
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[12:01] dmilith: one of methods is to set something = this.render
[12:01] dmilith: and then use it in callback
[12:01] dmilith: is this valid way of achieving what I'm talking about?
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[12:06] stagas: dmilith: make it a function and call it in the callback and pass the value in the arguments
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[12:06] dmilith: stagas: yea, that's how I did it. But it requires some sort of: Render = @render
[12:06] dmilith:     Request = @request
[12:07] dmilith: and I doubt it's pro way
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[12:07] dmilith: but it actually works :}
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[12:22] panosru: Hello, I'm wondering about forever and connect vhosts, if I have one bootstrap which will contain my vhosts and then I use forever start bootstrap.js and then bootstrap.js will handle to bring up the vhost servers I defined then if something goes wrong in any of those vhosts, forever will restart bootstrap.js and this will have as a result an unnecessary restart of other vhosts, am I correct?
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[12:40] shedinja: anyone know the url of the npm _changes feed? i'm not that familiar with couchdb
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[12:42] mmalecki: shedinja: http://isaacs.ic.ht/registry/_changes should work
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[12:42] shedinja: mmalecki, thank you :)
[12:42] mmalecki: shedinja: :)
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[12:57] John-Gresham: hi
[12:58] John-Gresham: does anyone know if one can use node as a base for a WS server in C ?
[12:59] mansoor: John-Gresham, what do you mean
[13:01] John-Gresham: mansoor: I'm looking for a libwebsockets (http://git.warmcat.com/cgi-bin/cgit/libwebsockets) equivalent and while digging in the sources, I told myself I would just ask here, just in case
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[13:05] John-Gresham: seems that I'd rather write C addons
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[13:07] mansoor: John-Gresham, not sure about that.... but there is a pretty awesome WS server written on node
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[13:19] Bonuspunkt: John-Gresham if you want to use C, i'd go for libuv, it the base for node
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[13:20] Octayn: Bonuspunkt: but there is no documentation
[13:21] Lorentz: I like how the github page for libuv says build status is failing
[13:21] Lorentz: Brings confidence, it does
[13:22] Bonuspunkt: so does node
[13:22] mmalecki: Lorentz: some tests fail on Linux
[13:22] mmalecki: Lorentz: like, constantly. not really due to libuv :)
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[13:29] John-Gresham: Bonuspunkt: thanks a lot, I'll read about it
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[13:30] Octayn: There really isn't much of anything to read about it.
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[13:34] John-Gresham: Octayn: I was talking about the code
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[13:35] njbair: I have been looking at twitter bootstrap and naturally that led me to learn a little about node.js, but I have to admit that all of it is pretty confusing so far. can anyone recommend some introductory reading?
[13:37] Octayn: njbair: do you know javascript well?
[13:38] mraxilus has joined the channel
[13:38] njbair: yes, as a web developer I use it a lot with jquery
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[13:38] Octayn: Check out http://nodemanual.org/latest/ then
[13:39] Octayn: What is confusing you in particular?
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[13:39] njbair: I guess how node.js relates to less, and by extension, twitter bootstrap
[13:40] Octayn: less just uses node for file io and stuff
[13:40] njbair: i understand that it's running js on the server side just like any other server side interpreter
[13:40] John-Gresham: Bonuspunkt: looks exactly like what I was looking for, thanks a lot :)
[13:41] njbair: honestly I think all of my confusion stems from an utter lack of documentation for bootstrap
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[13:41] njbair: and their IRC channel isn't much help, unless you like nothing but join/part/quit notices
[13:42] njbair: I consider myself pretty resourceful when it comes to this stuff, but I truly can't figure out how anyone has managed to learn bootstrap
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[13:44] Octayn: http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/scaffolding.html etc aren't enough documentation for you?
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[13:47] njbair: I've worked through those but I don't understand how to use it with less
[13:47] Octayn: less is just a css preprocessor
[13:48] njbair: I know that you can compile less files. can they also be parsed in real-time by node?
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[13:48] Octayn: bootstrap sets some variables and gives you some mixins, but other than that it's plain less
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[13:48] Octayn: njbair: parsed in real-time? I don't understand what you mean by that. You can compile them on request, if that's what you mean.
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[13:50] njbair: so the less files sit on the server, less compiles them into css files and serves those to the client?
[13:50] Octayn: less doesn't serve anything
[13:50] Octayn: it's purely a preprocessor
[13:51] njbair: so it compiles css files from the less source, then the webserver serves the css? or do web browsers receive the less files and compile them client-side?
[13:51] Octayn: what I do is process and minify all my css and then deploy that, instead of sending less to the client and having it process client-side or doing it with express.
[13:51] Octayn: njbair: all of those are options
[13:51] njbair: so you can run less in your dev environment and put only the compiled css on the server
[13:52] Octayn: yes
[13:52] njbair: ok that's a huge help to know.
[13:52] njbair: do you use bootstrap?
[13:52] Octayn: no but I know a bit about it
[13:53] njbair: when you download the bootstrap .zip package, it contains no .less files
[13:53] njbair: when you download the source, it contains no .css files
[13:53] Octayn: they compile it for distribution, afaik
[13:54] njbair: so then I guess the distribution .zip package is designed for people who do not wish to modify any of the less
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[13:56] Octayn: looks like it. their makefile does all the things so it should be easy to modify and rebuild less
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[14:00] njbair: it looks like their makefile spits out a .zip file in the docs/assets subfolder. I guess you're supposed to use that
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[14:39] graeme_f: having fun with restler and step today - this is great stuff! :D
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[14:53] CIA-19: node: 03Ben Noordhuis 07v0.6 * r9df84f0 10/ (3 files): deps: upgrade http_parser to joyent/node@b47c44d - http://git.io/68iJeA
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[15:03] AntelopeSalad: does setting the syncSalt() value to 1 in bcrypt almost defeat the purpose of using it? i noticed when it's set to 10 (default), it takes 100-105ms to generate a hash but when it's set to 1 it's basically nothing (1-2ms)
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[15:23] CIA-19: node: 03Ben Noordhuis 07v0.6 * r44527e6 10/ (3 files): deps: upgrade http_parser to joyent/http-parser@b47c44d - http://git.io/Xj066Q
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[15:32] timoxley: I want to redirect stdout to a variable, how can I do that
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[15:37] context: timtim`: stop writing to stdout... ?
[15:37] context: and write to a variable ?
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[15:40] timoxley: context I'm wrapping the functionality of a lib
[15:41] timoxley: context so it's not my code to modify
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[15:42] SubStack: timoxley: try overwriting stdout's .write?
[15:42] SubStack: you could also execute the code in a context with an overridden process object with a custom stdout object
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[15:43] SubStack: and likewise for console if the code is doing console.log()
[15:44] SubStack: or you could execute the lib in a child process and read the stdout directly
[15:44] timoxley: SubStack good ideas. I somehow thought I'd be able to swap out the process.stdout file descriptor with some kind of in-memory stream/buffer thing.
[15:45] Cromulent has joined the channel
[15:45] SubStack: easier to just overwrite the globals
[15:45] AntelopeSalad: SubStack: are you still developing dnode or is there another module that took its place?
[15:46] SubStack: or run in a new context with mock globals
[15:46] SubStack: AntelopeSalad: upnode is a handy lib that sits on top of dnode
[15:46] AntelopeSalad: yeah i just saw your dnode/upnode/fleet video last night
[15:48] SubStack: I like to keep feature creep under control by writing new modules that depend on the old ones to handle features I want
[15:48] AntelopeSalad: i really liked the idea of having a separate process/server for auth , dnode would be the best choice atm to set that up?
[15:48] SubStack: instead of expanding the initial project very much
[15:48] SubStack: it's pretty easy with dnode
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[15:49] SubStack: I've been using a dnode auth server for browserling for as long as browserling has been live
[15:49] AntelopeSalad: i guess it's safe to say it's been generally smooth?
[15:50] AntelopeSalad: i'm not sure how popular browserling is but it seemed like a useful service, so probably pretty popular?
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[15:50] bingomanatee: Good morning everyone
[15:51] bingomanatee: Survivers of the Great Saint Patricks Day Wetness
[15:51] timoxley: AntelopeSalad dnode == good. Try it yourself, will only take you a short time to evaluate.
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[15:52] timoxley: AntelopeSalad …also check out enode. wraps dnode and upnode into a single interface and does some other stuff which is good IMO.
[15:52] CIA-19: node: 03koichik 07v0.6 * r03077db 10/ test/simple/test-http-no-content-length.js : 
[15:52] CIA-19: node: test: HTTP responses with no content-length
[15:52] CIA-19: node: Refs: #2952. - http://git.io/8yDDlA
[15:53] AntelopeSalad: does upnode conflict with learnboost's up module?
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[15:53] SubStack: AntelopeSalad: why might you think that?
[15:54] timoxley: AntelopeSalad upnode and up don't really have much other than the word 'up' in common
[15:55] AntelopeSalad: upnode said it keeps a dnode connection alive -- i figured maybe it handled restarting a server
[15:55] AntelopeSalad: i'll do more research :D
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[16:01] shedinja: http://www.freelancer.com/projects/Javascript-Mobile-Phone/Nude-server-apps-for-chat.html lmao i love how the average bid is 669
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[16:07] timoxley: shedinja lol
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[16:14] mc: so.. what's everyone's favorite ORM for node?
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[16:17] SubStack: mc: I haven't seen many node folk use orms
[16:17] mc: i haven't either
[16:17] timoxley: mc for what db, and for what purpose?
[16:17] mc: and it seems the majority of implementations are only about half finished
[16:17] mc: timoxley: mysql
[16:18] mc: we've got a project for a customer that's already using mysql, but the original developer wrote it all using raw SQL queries
[16:18] vam3c has joined the channel
[16:18] mc: which is an absolute nightmare to maintain
[16:18] mc: so if i can find an ORM to switch to, i'll be much happier
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[16:19] SubStack: you don't need an ORM to clean up messy code
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[16:20] SubStack: just move all the pieces that talk to the database to a more unified place
[16:20] SubStack: with a nice api in front of it
[16:20] mmalecki: SubStack++
[16:20] SubStack: that's pretty much all ORMs do anyways
[16:20] Renegade001_ has joined the channel
[16:20] mc: yeah, that's what i did so far
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[16:21] mc: but tracking down and figuring out bugs in the queries is kind of a pain
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[16:25] owen1: what commen style do u guys use? i really like tomdoc (http://tomdoc.org/) for ruby since it's intuitive and readable for humans. 
[16:25] owen1: is it being used for js as well?
[16:26] SubStack: I put docs in the readme
[16:26] SubStack: so that people will read them
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[16:29] owen1: SubStack: what about function/module level docs+
[16:29] owen1: ?
[16:29] SubStack: module level docs?
[16:30] SubStack: each module should have its own docs
[16:30] SubStack: seems like a poor separation of concerns to lump too many interfaces into the same project
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[16:30] SubStack: you could also just throw down a separate markdown file for each thing you want to document
[16:31] timoxley: owen1 docs in nodeland are typically: README + usage examples + tests.
[16:32] owen1: timoxley: so no one add a few lines of docs before some complex functions?
[16:32] timoxley: owen1 high cost to benefit ratio vs "document everything" xDoc approach
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[16:34] timoxley: owen1 some people do, there is jsdoc and docco, but you don't see that style of api doc as much
[16:35] owen1: timoxley: that's why i find tomdoc a nice approach. it's not structured rigidly as rdoc/yard etc. it's for other devs to read, and not for generating html (though you can).
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[16:35] owen1: also, do u guys use jslint on your js code?
[16:35] Brandon_R: hi
[16:35] Brandon_R: not me
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[16:37] timoxley: owen1 I don't use jslint. have used jshint in the past when working in team though
[16:40] SubStack: owen1: another problem is that most doc generators are shit at giving you a nice way of describing callbacks
[16:40] SubStack: and dynamic arguments based on runtime typechecks
[16:40] owen1: SubStack: yeah, i don't care about generating it.
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[16:41] SubStack: I write functions with order-insensitive arguments rather often
[16:41] owen1: just a few lines before a complex function that explain the arguments, return value (or callback) and maybe an exampl
[16:42] SubStack: and you could get a function back from a function call, so you'd need to describe that separately
[16:42] SubStack: doc tools tend to be really big into classical OO patterns
[16:42] SubStack: and fuck those interfaces
[16:42] Aria: It's sad but true.
[16:42] owen1: Aria: what's sad?
[16:42] Aria: That doc generators suck.
[16:43] SubStack: just write some markdown or text
[16:43] SubStack: describing how your code works
[16:43] owen1: SubStack: so node (or js) tend to use non classical oo?
[16:43] SubStack: no need for comment blocks to be picked out by some tooling
[16:43] owen1: SubStack: agree!
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[16:44] owen1: i don't care about the tools. i care about me and other devs reading my coed.
[16:44] owen1: code
[16:44] sandfox: use the inline code thing
[16:44] sandfox: i forget its name
[16:44] sandfox: something like jsdoc  (but i could be wrong)
[16:44] owen1: sandfox: let me know if you remember
[16:45] mc: owen1: i wrote a lazy tool to put markdown documentation in code
[16:45] mc: it's in npm as ape
[16:45] sandfox: just looking now  (and it's not jsdoc) but markdown is a solid alternative (esp when used with github)
[16:45] mc: you write your docs in markdown format in the comments, it can generate either markdown or html output
[16:45] mc: it's nothing fancy, but it works
[16:46] Industrial: What do I do with https://gist.github.com/897686efeddd7f85cb0d ?
[16:46] owen1: mc: i use .md for my readmes. but what about before a function?
[16:46] mc: owen1: the idea is you write api documentation in markdown formatted comments in the source code
[16:47] owen1: mc: oh. and github display it nicely as the readme? let me try?
[16:47] RLa: what about docco and other such tools for literate programming?
[16:47] mc: right
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[16:47] owen1: RLa: i like tomdoc
[16:47] sandfox: its docco!
[16:47] owen1: mc: that's awesome. 
[16:47] mc: i had originally started to extend docco
[16:47] Aria: Industrial: Look  for where slaveOk is called, see what object is being referenced, then track back and see why it's undefined.
[16:47] Industrial: Anyone use JugglingDB? I can find mongodb as a backend option but I can't find any documentation on database connection options.
[16:48] brianseeders has joined the channel
[16:48] mc: but ended up rewriting my own from scratch because i'm not a fan of coffeescript
[16:48] sandfox: http://jashkenas.github.com/docco/  This is the batboy boy
[16:48] sandfox: *badboy even
[16:48] owen1: mc: any goood markdown reference?
[16:49] mc: http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax
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[16:50] sandfox: owen1: thats the definitive reference - take 20 minutes to bash through it and then win!
[16:51] owen1: mc: from some reason i assumed that github knows to display nice markdown pages only for readme files. i didn't think i can annotate markdown inside a js file
[16:52] mc: it won't parse it, that was the idea behind my tool. it will write a .md file for each supported code file
[16:52] mc: then you click the .md file in github and it will display neatly formatted
[16:53] owen1: mc: but didn't you mention i can use markdown syntax within js file before my functions?
[16:53] mc: yes
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[16:53] mc: hang on just a second
[16:53] mc: https://github.com/nathan-lafreniere/ape/blob/master/lib/ape.js
[16:53] mc: so that's how it looks if you just click the code
[16:53] mc: and after parsing with ape
[16:53] mc: https://github.com/nathan-lafreniere/ape/blob/master/lib/ape.md
[16:53] mc: you can get that
[16:53] owen1: sandfox: for someone that wrote markdown, the blog you gave me is really ugly..
[16:54] AntelopeSalad: how can something so useful have so little followers, damn i wish i knew about ape about 24 hours ago
[16:55] sandfox: owen1: Yeah , his personal taste i guess
[16:55] mc: i haven't spent any time trying to spread it around
[16:55] Aria: Because follower count isn't a measure of goodness ;-)
[16:55] mc: it's proven pretty useful for us in the office though
[16:56] mc: and one of my coworkers added a pile of extra supported languages
[16:56] AntelopeSalad: aria: yeah but at a quick glance it usually makes you more comfy when you see a lot of people using that code
[16:57] Aria: Hehe. Not in my experience. I read it as "worthy but probably needs replacing with something that has less inertia"
[16:57] meso_ has joined the channel
[16:57] sandfox: sometimes I wish technology would stand still….
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[16:59] SubStack: sandfox: the best way to keep on top of technology is to invent it
[17:00] mmalecki: SubStack: you should mention that you don't comment your code at all :)
[17:00] mc: comments are for suckers ;)
[17:01] sandfox: SubStack: agree completely, just wish my job left more time for doing that than using other peoples inferior stuff :-)
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[17:02] SubStack: comments have a short shelf-life
[17:02] SubStack: so they tend to persist long after they stop being useful
[17:03] mmalecki: SubStack: no comments aren't useful at all
[17:03] AntelopeSalad: if you tie your comments into your readmes with markdown, then you're forced to keep them up to date
[17:03] Gatoradecode: I need to listen on multiple ports from the same node.js process. Is this feasible, and will it save memory over firing up a separate node for each port? (There are 20 ports)
[17:04] TooTallNate has joined the channel
[17:04] AntelopeSalad: or suffer having an out of date "away from code, this is what devs are reading before they even decide to use your module" documentation
[17:04] Gatoradecode: It looks like node by itself uses about 50mb of memory.
[17:04] SubStack: mmalecki: lack of clutter can be a sort of utility
[17:04] mmalecki: well, I almost always end up reading code
[17:04] SubStack: and comments are pretty much always clutter
[17:04] SubStack: that hurt readability
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[17:05] SubStack: when I read other people's code I don't even look at the comments
[17:05] mc: i typically only look for comments if a piece of code is really unreadable
[17:05] mmalecki: well, actually, neither do I
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[17:05] sandfox: yeah, comments are a fallback for when people write batshit crazy logic
[17:05] AntelopeSalad: experience probably plays a big role there
[17:05] mmalecki: or what mc said
[17:06] sandfox: they are really helpful for fresh starters generally though
[17:06] Gatoradecode: So any ideas on how much memory node.js by itself uses? I'm worried about having 20 node instances to run on 20 ports.
[17:06] SubStack: Gatoradecode: it's really easy to listen on more than 1 port in a single node process
[17:07] SubStack: this isn't apache or anything silly like that
[17:07] SubStack: you just create some servers and call .listen(port) on them
[17:08] Gatoradecode: SubStack: Okay, what if I want a different process for each server?
[17:08] SubStack: then just spawn up a new one for every server
[17:08] SubStack: easy
[17:08] Gatoradecode: (Or is that a really bad idea with 20 servers?)
[17:08] Gatoradecode: i.e. context switching overhead
[17:08] TooTallNate: Gatoradecode: depends on how busy you expect them to be
[17:09] Gatoradecode: Right now, we're firing up a different node.js for each port. Which is costing a lot in overhead :/
[17:09] sandfox: how many cores do you have to play with?
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[17:09] TooTallNate: it's very likely that if these are not very demanding sites (read: mostly static) then you could do all 20 in 1 process no problem
[17:09] SubStack: Gatoradecode: what do you mean by "overhead"?
[17:09] sandfox: node uses roughly 10-20MB from experience per process as starting point...
[17:10] Brandon_R: hi guys
[17:10] timoxley has joined the channel
[17:10] Brandon_R: anyone here know of forum software writting or currently being written in node?
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[17:10] sandfox: watch out for single process with lots of v8 heap memory usage, the GC can kill you sometimes for few seconds if it has a lot to do….
[17:10] Gatoradecode: TooTallNate: They are socket.io servers.
[17:11] SubStack: $ node -e 'process.memoryUsage().rss / 1024 / 1024'
[17:11] SubStack: 9.80859375
[17:11] timoxley: Gatoradecode why not just boot up node 20 times and see? for me, booting node repl uses about 11meg
[17:11] sandfox: and by large I mean 500MB+...
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[17:11] Gatoradecode: SubStack: Interesting.
[17:11] owen1: sandfox: mc maybe it's my lack of experience with js, but for me most of the code i read is hard to understand.
[17:11] mc: i still hit stumbling blocks, but i'm getting better
[17:11] SubStack: that was on 0.4.12, 0.6.11 is even less
[17:11] TooTallNate: SubStack: you still on 0.4.x there?
[17:12] TooTallNate: oh, ya, i see
[17:12] SubStack: TooTallNate: for a week more probs
[17:12] sandfox: owen1: I used to (and still do a bit), hate javascript and I find the flow etc very different to C, PHP etc, but once you get used to it you can see the wood for the trees
[17:12] SubStack: I use nave so it's no big deal
[17:12] SubStack: in 0.6.11:
[17:12] SubStack: $ node -e 'console.log(process.memoryUsage().rss / 1024 / 1024)'
[17:12] SubStack: 7.73828125
[17:12] TooTallNate: SubStack: note you need -p on that command for 0.6.x
[17:12] SubStack: aha
[17:12] TooTallNate: "print"
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[17:13] sandfox: reading a 9.2 on OSX, node 0.6.12
[17:13] newcode: hey I'm on ubuntu 10.04 and I installed the node package following the tutorial on the wiki
[17:13] TooTallNate: 0.7.6 gets similar numbers upon bootup
[17:13] newcode: how can I get npm now?
[17:13] justicefries: npmjs.org
[17:13] justicefries: follow directions
[17:13] TooTallNate: newcode: do the curl command
[17:13] Gatoradecode: Is `ps aux` the best way to be monitor node.js for memory leaks?
[17:14] newcode: TooTallNate: ok, thx
[17:14] sandfox: valgrind :-)
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[17:14] timoxley: newcode also, you should double check you're running an uptodate version of node
[17:14] justicefries: valgrind will do node?
[17:14] TooTallNate: does valgrind help with JS memory leaks?
[17:14] timoxley: newcode: node -v
[17:14] newcode: timoxley: how can I do that?
[17:14] sandfox: (no idea, was just a joke) though seriously, run your program for a while and monitor
[17:14] owen1: sandfox: that's why i force myself to write most of my stuff in js or node and not ruby.
[17:14] sandfox: and put some load on it
[17:14] newcode: timoxley: v0.6.13
[17:14] timoxley: newcode node -v in your console
[17:15] owen1: i know that in a few months it will be clearer
[17:15] timoxley: newcode ok cool
[17:15] newcode: timoxley: thx!
[17:15] justicefries: owen1: it's hard for me to look at synchronous code now.
[17:15] justicefries: owen1: I'm very used to async and/or functional code.
[17:15] TooTallNate: newcode: that should have installed npm with node
[17:15] sandfox: owen1: I use coffee script alot (yeah haters gone the for that)
[17:15] timoxley: newcode that's the latest. often people get node from their package manager and it's ancient. 
[17:15] TooTallNate: unless you compiled with --without-npm
[17:15] Brandon_R: npmjs.org websites needs an updat
[17:15] Brandon_R: e
[17:15] Brandon_R: it looks 2000
[17:16] newcode: TooTallNate: I don't have npm though
[17:16] justicefries: TooTallNate: I built from source yesterday and npm wasn't installed, I couldn't figure out why.
[17:16] timoxley: Brandon_R I think that's intentional
[17:16] justicefries: but when I built from source about a week ago
[17:16] justicefries: it was there.
[17:16] mmalecki: hash -r
[17:16] TooTallNate: newcode: justicefries: interesting
[17:16] justicefries: yeah
[17:16] justicefries: i was a little confused when I suddenly didn't have npm.
[17:16] owen1: sandfox: i like coffee's syntax, but i think i should learn js first. and later on coffee, just becase it's getting popular as well.
[17:16] mc: newcode: curl npmjs.org/install.sh | sudo sh
[17:16] TooTallNate: newcode: justicefries: and you guys ran `make install`?
[17:16] justicefries: mmhmm.
[17:17] justicefries: yeah, I rebuild it pretty often.
[17:17] justicefries: doing ops, new computer, etc.
[17:17] newcode: I just did apt-get install nodejs
[17:17] justicefries: oh don't do it with apt.
[17:17] newcode: after following this
[17:17] justicefries: git clone git@github.com:joyent/node && cd node && ./configure && make && sudo make install
[17:17] TooTallNate: newcode: you got lucky this time that they were on the lastet version
[17:17] newcode: https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Installing-Node.js-via-package-manager
[17:17] sandfox: newcode: npm is a separate  module on ubuntu
[17:17] TooTallNate: newcode: but that's probably why you didn't get npm
[17:18] newcode: so you suggest no apt-get?
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[17:18] TooTallNate: i'm sure isaacs would recommend against using apt-get
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[17:18] newcode: ok
[17:18] sandfox: newcode: nope! get from website, or go from source
[17:18] newcode: so where should I do the git clone from?
[17:18] newcode: in ubuntu
[17:18] sandfox: newcode: or use  the chris lea repo for ubuntu
[17:19] newcode: sandfox: that's what i did sudo add-apt-repository ppa:chris-lea/node.js
[17:19] TooTallNate: i just use n
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[17:19] sandfox: newcode: then you'l still need to install npm separately..
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[17:19] AvianFlu: you should just curl from http://nodejs.org/dist/v0.6.13/node-v0.6.13.tar.gz
[17:20] sandfox: newcode: although the best way is from source if you have the time/skill/etc
[17:20] justicefries: eh, it's a one liner to install from source.
[17:21] newcode: I should be good compiling from source
[17:21] justicefries: anyone doing active node builds on ARM systems? I'm wanting to pick up a BeagleBoard xM and give it a shot.
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[17:21] TooTallNate: i want Rasberry Pi
[17:21] justicefries: so do I, I have one ordered when they opened up the line a bit.
[17:22] TooTallNate: justicefries: arm should work fine actaully
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[17:22] TooTallNate: justicefries: ive even gotten node working on ARM iOS
[17:22] YoY has joined the channel
[17:22] hh__: it works on webos which runs on arm hardware so
[17:22] justicefries: oh, nice.
[17:22] TooTallNate: justicefries: where do i order one?
[17:23] sandfox: TooTallNate: rs compenets
[17:23] justicefries: digi-key
[17:23] justicefries: http://www.digikey.com/product-highlights/us/en/texas-instruments-beagleboard/685
[17:23] justicefries: it's pretty beastly.
[17:23] justicefries: second tab
[17:23] justicefries: OpenGL ES 2.0 support
[17:23] TooTallNate: justicefries: i meant the pi
[17:23] justicefries: ohh
[17:23] TooTallNate: but that's sweet too
[17:24] TooTallNate: $125; not too bad
[17:24] gr4yscale has joined the channel
[17:24] hh__: expensive
[17:24] justicefries: I got it from element14
[17:24] justicefries: er
[17:24] justicefries: newark
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[17:24] justicefries: they had me put my email in, and then emailed me to get my place in line.
[17:24] justicefries: for one.
[17:25] hh__: whats the point of buying that when you can just buy like a google nexus phone?
[17:25] Brandon_R: assuming same server equiptment and config, which os is node fastest on?
[17:25] justicefries: my expected ship date is april 13.
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[17:25] justicefries: hh__: because I don't want a phone, I'm using it for home automation and small home-based web servers, as well as our dashboard computer for work.
[17:26] hh__: ah ok
[17:26] justicefries: also I want to experiment with building a student nodekit, that would ship with a small IDE, node.js, and everything to get started developing and using say, a raspberry pi.
[17:27] justicefries: put the SD card in, attach a monitor, and go.
[17:27] timoxley: justicefries that sounds awesome
[17:27] mc: justicefries: i agree, that'd be really awesome
[17:27] mc: i'd buy one
[17:27] mc: or two.. you know, for the kids
[17:27] justicefries: awesome
[17:27] justicefries: yeah
[17:27] mc: not because i'd steal them
[17:27] justicefries: haha.
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[17:28] justicefries: I'm debating right now if it's something that should include monitor/HDMI cable/keyboard/mouse, or just sell the setup SD cards.
[17:28] mc: different packages
[17:28] justicefries: as well as putting the SD card image up for free.
[17:28] mc: one that's just the board with an sd card full of software
[17:28] Brandon_R: make it cheap and free
[17:28] mc: one that includes a monitor, keyboard, and mouse
[17:29] trivol: Hi ! I'm completely new to Node (coming from rails) and I struggle with node since this morning. I just try to setup a basic Node + Express + mangouse following MVC pattern but without success. I found lot of resource online but always outdated :/ . Do you know something recent who could explain me how to do that ?
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[17:29] justicefries: there's going to be a supply problem for a little while, I think there's 2 million people interested in buying a raspberry pi or many?
[17:29] sandfox: trivoli: what problems, errors are you having? 
[17:30] uchuff has joined the channel
[17:30] justicefries: and then maybe resources for kids building their first web app using node + redis.
[17:30] JSONB has joined the channel
[17:30] justicefries: I think redis is a great way to learn how to do persistence.
[17:30] mc: justicefries: you should start with software
[17:30] justicefries: yeah
[17:31] justicefries: that's ture.
[17:31] justicefries: true
[17:31] justicefries: make it so you can just plug in the SD card and go.
[17:31] mc: if you know you can make node work on arm, then write your software to use node
[17:31] mc: then it's cross platform
[17:31] justicefries: yeah
[17:31] infynyxx has joined the channel
[17:32] justicefries:  now I need to name it and gauge interest. :D
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[17:32] mc: i'd be in if it was kid friendly and came with some getting started tutorials
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[17:33] trivol: sandfox: I didn't found a way to link a model to mongo (with mangoose), or at least not a generic way to to it (it look like mangoose deprecated the very useful "load" function).
[17:33] sandfox: are you using Schemas?
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[17:34] justicefries: that's what I'm thinking, mc.
[17:34] trivol: Yes, do I have another choice ? I began with https://www.learnboost.com/blog/mongoose/ but every thing in the blog post is deprecated now :/
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[17:35] justicefries: an SD card, comes with just operating system, node, redis, trying to figure out what a good editor/IDE would be to get started, plus the getting started tutorials.
[17:35] M1l3n1um has joined the channel
[17:36] sandfox: look at the github repo for mongoose, its'way more uptodate
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[17:37] mc: justicefries: could use something like nide
[17:37] mc: or cloud9
[17:37] sandfox: trivoli: http://mongoosejs.com/
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[17:38] sandfox: just roll with the docs and ignore the tutorial completelt
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[17:38] trivol: sandfox: Thx, I'll take a look
[17:39] sandfox: trivol: also, take small steps, I got really annoyed with mongoose when I took big jumps and it didn't do what I thought it should do
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[17:39] justicefries: mc: cloud9 would be good...and I forgot about nide!
[17:39] hh__: so so
[17:40] hh__: you guys know if they'll have order limits for raspberry pi
[17:40] hh__: i dont think supply will ever meet demand till maybe a year from now or who knows
[17:40] justicefries: you can only order 1 right now.
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[17:41] hh__: is registering for interest basically meaning they reserve one for X amount of time or is it just a simple alert when its in stock
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[17:41] trivol: sandfox: I try to follow a smotth curve but It's quiet difficult to found uptodate tutorial since Node and all the module are in heavy development
[17:41] justicefries: the latter
[17:41] hh__: nice
[17:41] hh__: so i got a chance at this thing then
[17:42] sandfox: trivol: yeah, it's a major PITA but the only other thing to do is find other open source projects using it and see how they do stuff
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[17:43] hh__: the first batch was what? 10,000 units? so i don't think they'll meet demand anytime soon if they can only produce that much in several weeks
[17:44] justicefries: I think so yeah, it'll ramp up though.
[17:44] hh__: you know, if all 2 million supposed people are waiting for one
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[17:46] trivol: sandfox: good point, I didn't think about that.
[17:46] hh__: honestly the docs are really good for express/mongoose
[17:46] ramitos has joined the channel
[17:46] hh__: just stay with the docs
[17:47] hh__: if you can't figure it out by looking over express/mongoose docs, then i dont think you know javascript very well
[17:48] hh__: which would be the main issue you should try to address
[17:48] sandfox: hh__: sometimes the how can be easy, but the what to do with it a bit harder
[17:49] newcode: has any of you some experience installing less for use with node?
[17:49] newcode: less css
[17:50] hh__: what about it? doesn't it just install a exe cutable for you to use?
[17:50] paulapple has joined the channel
[17:50] newcode: hh__: talking to me?
[17:51] hh__: yea
[17:51] timoxley has joined the channel
[17:51] newcode: yes, but I've tried a few times to just do npm install less
[17:51] newcode: and then trying to do var less = require('less');
[17:51] michaelmartinez: sadfox: sweet idea on the Rpi
[17:51] newcode: thre me errors
[17:51] newcode: threw
[17:51] michaelmartinez: sandfox
[17:52] sreeix has joined the channel
[17:52] hh__: newcode: it's not a library
[17:52] michaelmartinez: sandfox: have you thought about Kickstater to guage interest
[17:52] willwhite has joined the channel
[17:52] hh__: it doesn't expose any api to use it
[17:52] sandfox: michaelmartinez: ? rpi, are you sure you mean me?
[17:52] Brandon_R: hi
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[17:52] Lee- has joined the channel
[17:52] justicefries: michaelmartinez: you mean me?
[17:53] michaelmartinez: meant justicfries
[17:53] newcode: hh__: look here http://lesscss.org/ the server side usage section
[17:53] sandfox: michaelmartinez: yeah justicefries is your man
[17:53] michaelmartinez: crap can't type
[17:53] justicefries: that's a great idea.
[17:53] michaelmartinez: hahaha
[17:53] justicefries: I should seriously do that.
[17:53] michaelmartinez: yeah... I give all of those bastards money
[17:53] michaelmartinez: they have sweet ideas... I fork cash. easy peezy
[17:54] hh__: newcode: oh, my bad :x
[17:54] SubStack: give me all your money instead/in addition to!
[17:54] newcode: hh__: no worries
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[17:54] michaelmartinez: Substack: for all you've done. Sure bro... just tell me where.
[17:54] michaelmartinez: not all mind you, I have three other mouths to feed
[17:55] hh__: newcode: it probably isn't installed then
[17:55] hh__: `npm list` to see
[17:55] SubStack: well if you need to test some code in some browsers http://browserling.com/#pricing or I'll have another t-shirt run pretty soon!
[17:55] newcode: hh__: man, I think I found
[17:56] timoxley has joined the channel
[17:56] newcode: hh__: thanks for your help anyways
[17:56] brainss: SubStack: make a t-shirt with robots and dinosaurs
[17:56] SubStack: also: crazy awesome stuff landing in browserling this week
[17:56] michaelmartinez: Nice. I've looked at your stuff extensively in a feudal attempt to learn. I will buy a shirt when avail.
[17:56] SubStack: brainss: on it
[17:56] brainss: SubStack: awesome!
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[17:57] SubStack: I don't even think it should say anything, there will just be robots and dinosaurs all over the place
[17:57] Brandon_R: is there a library that allows one to do object oriented css?
[17:57] michaelmartinez: What constitutes a "large project" in y'alls opinion? I keep hearing this on podcasts, etc.
[17:57] SubStack: brainss: ok it's on my calendar
[17:57] justicefries: that's perfect. the nodeboard.
[17:58] brainss: SubStack: yeah, just keep it simple. pure awesomeness doesn't need an explanation
[17:58] Brandon_R: a large project is any project that uses a full stack dev kit
[17:59] Brandon_R: uses tests and agile development and design patterns
[17:59] Aria: .oO(By that definition, then System/360 wasn't a large project)
[17:59] michaelmartinez: Brandon_R: What do you mean by "use"... does that have a definition?
[17:59] SubStack: a large project is an unstable isotope that will decay into several smaller, easier to maintain projects when acted upon by sufficient activation energy
[17:59] Aria: Brandon_R: What would object oriented CSS look like? CSS is a set of rules -- and tying them to various root nodes as objects is as object oriented as I can imagine.
[17:59] michaelmartinez: I mean, I could have a simple website nestled into a full stack right?
[17:59] Aria: (Like is easy with Less)
[18:00] Aria: (OR stylus)
[18:00] Brandon_R: object oriented css would be you have a class called red and you extend it to a class called Red_Button and red button has all the properties like red
[18:00] michaelmartinez: Substack: like protein folding algo's?
[18:00] justicefries: I'd say a large project is one that starts to involve multiple complex business domains.
[18:00] nibblebot has joined the channel
[18:00] Brandon_R: that's a good definition justicefries
[18:00] SubStack: large projects are a bug not a feature
[18:01] michaelmartinez: ahaha
[18:01] mc: that's true
[18:01] SubStack: http://substack.net/images/separation_of_concerns.png
[18:02] pythoner has joined the channel
[18:02] michaelmartinez: justicefries: I like that... So, complex being accounting, shipping, etc?
[18:02] Brandon_R: i like soc
[18:03] michaelmartinez: Substack: another awesome shirt idea, right there.
[18:03] justicefries: yeah.
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[18:03] justicefries: exactly. whether or not it's SOA or separation of concerns, doesn't mean you have multiple projects - I wouldn't consider two repos = two projects. :)
[18:03] Brandon_R: that shirt will only be funny in the business domain
[18:04] sandfox: yeah, one project can be across multiple repos if it makes sense
[18:04] michaelmartinez: Ok, I was finding this difficult to reason about, because I've never worked on something that wasn't trivial. So thank you.
[18:04] SubStack: michaelmartinez: then you're doing it right!
[18:04] justicefries: and each one is a project in its own right.
[18:04] sandfox: project composed of multiple modules composed of multiple classes files etc etc
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[18:04] Brandon_R: anyone here have the new ipad?
[18:04] michaelmartinez: Brandon_R: like most geek shirts. None of my Firefighter coworkers get my humor
[18:05] Brandon_R: you're a firefighter programmer. COOL!
[18:05] SubStack: sandfox: modules belong on npm
[18:05] michaelmartinez: Brabdon_R: yes, it is weird to be kicking down a door thinking about your github repo
[18:05] michaelmartinez: I work for Tucson Fire Dept.
[18:06] brainss: for me, it's weird to kick down doors
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[18:06] Brandon_R: do you have authority to arrest people?
[18:06] sandfox: SubStack: yep, agree completely, a project should made of modules (which may themselves be made of modules), ideally a project should be some glue code to join them together. turtles all the way down :-)
[18:06] michaelmartinez: No, but we kick down doors when the house is buring
[18:06] SubStack: indeed!
[18:07] Brandon_R: i like that idea about node
[18:07] Brandon_R: toolkits, not frameworks
[18:07] michaelmartinez: sandfox: how do you keep it strait in your head?
[18:07] CIA-19: node: 03isaacs 07v0.6 * rd980620 10/ .gitignore : Ignore 'making a build' artifacts - http://git.io/oq1QpQ
[18:07] CIA-19: node: 03isaacs 07v0.6 * r851b397 10/ tools/doc/generate.js : Fix include logic was replacing https include with http - http://git.io/2-x09w
[18:07] Brandon_R: node has a unix philosophy
[18:08] sandfox: michaelmartinez: doodle everything out on some paper, boxes joined together with lines. If you can't sketch it, your probably doing it wrong
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[18:08] SubStack: frameworks are a sign of poor package management
[18:08] SubStack: in a healthy module ecosystem the long tail eats the monoliths
[18:08] michaelmartinez: Ok... I def need to do a better job at that. ctually think about it before I start typing
[18:09] michaelmartinez: actually
[18:09] sandfox: Brandon_R: hopefully it will rub off on other languages, i notice PHP now has composer which is a sort of NPM
[18:09] Brandon_R: frameworks are a sign of bloat
[18:09] SubStack: sandfox: php finally ditched pear?
[18:09] Brandon_R: php was my first love
[18:09] sandfox: SubStack: It's looking like it might thank god… ( I am really a php kid at heart)
[18:09] Brandon_R: now i'm sleeping with node
[18:10] timoxley has joined the channel
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[18:10] michaelmartinez: I agreed when JesusAbdullah said the diff between framework and lib is subtle
[18:10] michaelmartinez: BRB: Fire alarm
[18:10] sandfox: michaelmartinez: coding from the hip carries risks… sometimes it works if your being rockstar, otherwise it leads to mess and epic code refactors
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[18:11] Brandon_R: the difference between a framework and a lib is the same as the lightning and a lightning bug
[18:11] CIA-19: node: 03isaacs 07master * r7bee98b 10/ .gitignore : Ignore 'making a build' artifacts - http://git.io/x6OYzg
[18:11] CIA-19: node: 03isaacs 07master * r8151693 10/ tools/doc/generate.js : Fix include logic was replacing https include with http - http://git.io/hOTJoQ
[18:12] Brandon_R: who here have kids?
[18:12] hortinstein has joined the channel
[18:12] Brandon_R: i have some questions
[18:12] sandfox: Brandon_R: frameworks do complex high level shit, lib's ideally just do one low level thing well (In my half thought ideas anyway)
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[18:12] brainss: Brandon_R: i only have child processes...
[18:13] Brandon_R: do you kill them?
[18:13] brainss: Brandon_R: all the time
[18:13] SubStack: sandfox: libs can build upon other libs to do complex high level operations
[18:13] SubStack: frameworks tend to NIH a lot of things
[18:13] Brandon_R: lets just say both frameworks and libs have their place
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[18:13] SubStack: I won't say that.
[18:13] sandfox: SubStack: dammit, your trashing my delicate view of things...
[18:13] SubStack: I think frameworks need to die.
[18:13] Brandon_R: on the other hand dart is java
[18:14] Brandon_R: amirite?
[18:14] Brandon_R: is a collection of libs a framework?
[18:14] sandfox: SubStack: I'm slowly beginning to agree with you, they seem to be chasing a failed dream...
[18:14] hortinstein: what is the best way to dynamically add callbacks to a web page?  For instance I am passing JSON to a client via websocket regarding available pages, what is the best way to have clickable events on each item in that list...i am trying to wrap my head around doing this in jquery
[18:15] pythoner: i am back to js peoples
[18:15] sandfox: hortinstein: thats a browser problem isn't it? not sure nodejs can help you much yet...
[18:15] westg: hortinstein: jQuery
[18:15] Gatoradecode: How much would a programmer charge to write a node.js, socket.io-based chat server with different rooms for each user that could handle 500 concurrent chatrooms? (Each chatroom being one-on-one between an agent and a customer).
[18:15] SubStack: hortinstein: I usually dynamically construct the elements and listeners like $('<div>').text(data).click(fn)
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[18:16] Gatoradecode: Because I've coded this, and I'm not sure what to do if anything goes wrong with hundreds of users :S
[18:16] SubStack: hortinstein: or you can use dnode for that kind of thing if you need callbacks to make a round-trip back to the server
[18:16] Gatoradecode: 
ACTION is literally scared.

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[18:16] rendar: SubStack: i don't agree, if a framework is well written,  is better than having a bunch of libs with differents styles
[18:16] hortinstein: SubStack: awesome ill take a look (and by the way thanks for all your great work in node!
[18:17] timoxley has joined the channel
[18:17] SubStack: rendar: I don't understand your objection.
[18:17] westg: anyone using mongoose in here?
[18:17] sandfox: westg: yes but badly..
[18:17] SubStack: libraries can abstract over other libraries
[18:17] infynyxx has joined the channel
[18:17] SubStack: it doesn't even matter what libraries they use most times
[18:18] Gatoradecode: I guess I am asking, how long does it take a good node.js programmer to write a 1-on-1 chat server that can handle 500 concurrent "rooms"?
[18:18] SubStack: but the criterions by which we label a project a framework seem to be at issue here
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[18:19] Brandon_R: not long
[18:19] rendar: SubStack: what i mean, consider for example a framework like Qt, it gives to the developer the same api style for gui, network etc
[18:19] Brandon_R: how do you store rooms is the question
[18:19] Brandon_R: and how do you store sockets
[18:19] SubStack: code generation scaffolding is a pretty good indicator for instance, rails style
[18:19] SubStack: rendar: I haven't used qt
[18:19] Brandon_R: how many users per room gatoradecode?
[18:19] SubStack: maybe we need better terms for discussing these things
[18:20] rendar: yep :)
[18:20] westg: I have a field in a doc which contains a string that identifies the name of a particular database (other than the one the doc is in). I want to be able to connect to that new database based on the the doc being retrieved. the problem is that I don't know if it's a good idea to open multiple database connections like that and I don't know if the database connection will be reused if I'm trying 
[18:20] westg: to connect to the same database that already has an active connection
[18:20] sandfox: Gatoradecode: 1 day with some bugs and a messy design :-)
[18:21] sandfox: Gatoradecode: and not including any fronted stuff...
[18:21] Brandon_R: gatoradecode:  1 hour because socket.io already does that
[18:21] westg: win ^
[18:22] rendar: SubStack: i try to explain my point: both frameworks and libs give to the user N apis to work with, the difference is that libraries are very specific component of a project, so for example i'll use libA and libB in a project, and libA and libB will have a totally different style of apis, instead, a framework can abstract them and give to me a more concrete set of apis..
[18:22] sandfox: render: are we assuming that libA and libB do similar things?
[18:23] rendar: no they do different things e.g. libA=gui libB=network
[18:23] SubStack: rendar: different libraries don't necessarily have different styles
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[18:24] SubStack: why would it make sense to use a framework that lumps disperate things together?
[18:24] sandfox: rendar: are we assuming style difference aren't a by product of being the optimum way of dealing with the domain they are in?
[18:24] Brandon_R_: frameworks are tested whereas libs are not?
[18:24] rendar: SubStack:  yes, but they often do..and a glue code for interacting them is needed, otherwise frameworks provide that for you (e.g. signal/slot mechanism in Qt which lets you to connect gui components with network components in a clear manner
[18:24] sandfox: Brandon_R: no testing is evil no matter where it's not happening...
[18:26] sandfox: Brandon_R: if your foundations aren't stable then you are really setting your self up for some epic fail at some point, a library shouldn't try to protect you from bugs in sub libraries...
[18:26] rendar: sandfox: nope, some differences can be just differences, without to be tight to the domain of problem they solve..
[18:27] Brandon_R_: not tested as in unit test
[18:27] Brandon_R_: tested as in used for ever 10 years
[18:27] Brandon_R_: in bank software etc
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[18:29] sandfox: Brandon_R: I don't think there is any difference in practice, tests are tests no matter what name you give them.. (yes there are different type's like integration, unit, etc but I think we are dealing with a layer above this)
[18:29] jkridner_ has joined the channel
[18:29] sandfox: Brandon_R: however there may well be perception differences
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[18:31] rendar: well, the NIH thing is always bad, in such way is written new code whihc can contain more bugs than the actual library, but sometimes its really needed to rewrite from scratch an old and slow library...even if it has years of testing..
[18:31] infynyxx has joined the channel
[18:32] benvie: substack, what should I use for TDD
[18:32] SubStack: first, don't do "TDD" do "write tests"
[18:32] benvie: well yes
[18:32] benvie: I mean to do the tests
[18:32] benvie: that i write
[18:32] SubStack: then use https://github.com/isaacs/node-tap
[18:32] benvie: ok cool
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[18:32] SubStack: because the api is super nice
[18:32] sandfox: rendar: then I think what you should is make a new library and replace the old one instead of wrapping it...
[18:32] benvie: I've been meaning to start doing things that way, and I'm going to now
[18:33] rendar: sandfox: yes, sure, this last my sentence aobut NIH was not related to the framework discussion of before :)
[18:33] sandfox: SubStack, where (if at all) does TAP and something like Mocha colide...
[18:33] SubStack: mocha is silly
[18:33] SubStack: globals everywhere
[18:33] benvie: yeah
[18:33] sandfox: rendar: ah-ha, my bad, getting too eager (watching the rugby at the moment and it's getting me fired up :-) )
[18:34] SubStack: and anyways what kind of test harness has multiple apis
[18:34] rendar: sandfox: eheheh! cool :)
[18:34] SubStack: and the api is configurable at runtime what is that even
[18:34] benvie: it needs to be simple and fast to use so you can focus on your thing
[18:34] mansoor: Has anyone ran Three.js on Node.js?
[18:35] sandfox: SubStack, yeah that last bit lost me, never really got the why...
[18:35] sandfox: mansoor: surely it's browser only? due to the webgl, canvas hooks etc?
[18:36] Brandon_R has joined the channel
[18:36] SubStack: mocha should really be split up into 4 or 5 separate projects
[18:36] hortinstein has joined the channel
[18:37] AntelopeSalad: substack: what's your opinion on the flatiron libs?
[18:37] sandfox: SubStack:  i've never actually touched Mocha (and i am very very bad at doing testing properly), but have been giving it thought as something to get started with and then I saw TAP.. guess I'll stick with TAP for now :-)
[18:38] hortinstein: what is the best way to add jquery to a site thats already loaded...appending strings to divs is what i was trying to do
[18:39] Brandon_R: hi
[18:40] sandfox: question to the wise: how many digits can I actually fit in a 32bit float buffer? (i'm being really daft and have confused myself)
[18:40] Brandon_R: hey, anyone here wife cheated on them?
[18:40] Brandon_R: i need some advice
[18:40] maxogden: npm install marriage-advice-robot
[18:41] AvianFlu: npm install new-mail-order-bride
[18:41] SubStack: AntelopeSalad: still a bit early but it's split up pretty well
[18:42] SubStack: I've helped a bit with ecstatic which is pretty sweet
[18:42] AntelopeSalad: at this stage of everything would you consider using bits and pieces of it instead of express?
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[18:42] AntelopeSalad: assuming you wanted to make a typical 1 page socket.io app
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[18:44] Brandon_R: how many concurrent connections can socket.io handle on average?
[18:44] Brandon_R: now.js says 6500
[18:44] Brandon_R: so i guess that's the hard limit on socket.io?
[18:45] AvianFlu: lol now.js says 6500 concurrent connections?
[18:45] AvianFlu: on what kind of server?
[18:45] hortinstein: 6500 seems really low
[18:45] AvianFlu: it seems really *arbitrary*
[18:45] AvianFlu: every different machine on every different network will see things differently
[18:45] Bonuspunkt: idle connections?
[18:46] Brandon_R: Single threaded NowJS can handle up to 6500 concurrent users on the chatroom example For customers that are looking for even greater scalability and reliability, we'll soon be licensing a distributed version of NowJS currently under development. Contact us at sales@nowjs.com
[18:46] mmalecki: if (numberOfConnections > 6500) throw 'sorry dawg';
[18:46] AvianFlu: hahahahahahahahaha
[18:46] Brandon_R: i think now.js hard coded 6500 so you have to buy their commercial solution
[18:46] mmalecki: ahahahahahahaha
[18:46] sandfox: what….
[18:46] AvianFlu: "single threaded nowjs"
[18:46] hortinstein: lmao
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[18:46] sandfox: what a joke...
[18:46] AvianFlu: 
ACTION walks away without saying anything

[18:47] sandfox: they should do nowjs as a service if they want to try that sort of thing....
[18:47] Brandon_R: lol? what's wrong with now.js?
[18:47] dscape: any ideas how to get the filename of the js file that required a module?
[18:47] yaymukund: do I need to pass session along every time I render a view?
[18:47] AvianFlu: dscape, I'm pretty sure there's such a thing as module.parent
[18:47] mmalecki: yeah, there is
[18:47] dscape: ah
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[18:47] sandfox: context…… who needs context...
[18:47] yaymukund: (e.g. I have a user who is logged in, so I need to show session.username on every view)
[18:48] mmalecki: dscape: also, you might be doing something wrong if you need it
[18:48] mmalecki: unless you're doing crazy stuff
[18:48] jarek: How can I compile Node.js so that it works on both 32bit and 64bit systems?
[18:48] Brandon_R: compile it for 32 bit
[18:48] Brandon_R: it will work on 64 bit
[18:48] Brandon_R: not necessarily the other way aroung.
[18:49] jarek: Brandon_R: if I compile it for 32bits it won't work because of missing libraries, e.g. libssl.so.1.0.0
[18:49] jarek: ^it won't work on 64bit machines
[18:50] jarek: I would prefer to ship fat binary rather than asking users to install 32 bit version of SSL
[18:51] dscape: mmalecki: AvianFlu : Yay
[18:51] yaymukund: nm, I just discovered dynamicHelpers. cool!
[18:51] dscape: module.parent.filename
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[18:51] Gloorian: hello
[18:51] Gloorian: I have a strange problem with express
[18:51] dscape: mmalecki: i never do anything wrong :D lol
[18:51] Gloorian: I'm making a uploading system, and I upload my files like this: http://dpaste.com/717969/
[18:51] dscape: unpossible
[18:51] Gloorian: the problem is : when I try to send the file with res.sendFile, it says, Forbidden
[18:51] Gloorian: does anyone know why ?
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[18:53] vdemedes: Hello
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[18:57] pythoner: while installing node i got this error what does it mean?
[18:57] pythoner: Build failed:  -> task failed (err #1): 
[18:57] pythoner: 	{task: cxx node_crypto.cc -> node_crypto_4.o}
[18:57] pythoner: i am on ubuntu by the way
[18:58] pythoner: help....help
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[19:04] jesusabdullah: pythoner: I would search node's issues on github since nobody here seems to know that side of things
[19:04] jesusabdullah: and then come back later
[19:04] pythoner: just doing that 
[19:04] jesusabdullah: pythoner: also, file an issue with full logs. Like, the most relevant and semi-relevant text you can think of
[19:05] RLa: crypto requires openssl? maybe you have openssl missing?
[19:05] jesusabdullah: also, uname output, etc
[19:05] jesusabdullah: RLa: but wouldn't that get caught at the config step?
[19:05] sandfox: it should do...
[19:05] RLa: but yeah, concrete error message would help
[19:05] sandfox: openssl is optional thought
[19:05] jesusabdullah: pythoner: You could check to make sure you have the -dev package installed
[19:05] RLa: config will probably just say it's missing
[19:06] pythoner: this error occured while executing make command
[19:06] pythoner: will post the log
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[19:08] michaelmartinez: Well the fire alarm turned out to be a bit more, but not too much: https://plus.google.com/u/0/106657123530243977683/posts
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[19:08] michaelmartinez: Now its time for lunch... carry on! I will be back to bug the shit out of you all later.
[19:08] pythoner: http://dpaste.org/V0ZJy/
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[19:09] RLa: hm, something blew up there?
[19:09] jesusabdullah: pythoner: 0.4.8?
[19:09] jesusabdullah: lolwat
[19:10] jesusabdullah: pythoner: you want 0.6.13 most likely
[19:10] pythoner: is that old?
[19:10] jesusabdullah: very
[19:10] pythoner: was following a process from a book
[19:10] jesusabdullah: books become out of date almost immediately
[19:10] jesusabdullah: and node is a fast-moving target
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[19:10] pythoner: latest version is? 
[19:11] RLa: https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/676
[19:11] pythoner: well i wiil search fo rthat
[19:11] RLa: fix is probably in later version
[19:11] nibblebot has joined the channel
[19:11] RLa: and indeed it is
[19:12] jesusabdullah: pythoner: 0.6.13
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[19:17] Brandon_R: guten tag
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[19:25] Daroth: hi
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[19:27] Daroth: am i in the right place for questions about cloud9 ?
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[19:31] Brandon_R: yeah
[19:31] Brandon_R: ask away
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[19:51] westg: anyone with experience in mongoose here?
[19:51] westg: or at least using it
[19:52] Brandon_R: hi
[19:54] Brandon_R: any more node.js video tuts?
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[19:56] pythoner: it seems the book i am reading is outdated
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[19:56] pythoner: where should i start learning node
[19:56] pythoner: ?
[19:57] westg: nodebeginner
[19:57] westg: howtonode.org
[19:57] redir has joined the channel
[19:58] M1l3n1um has joined the channel
[19:58] westg: and if you're interested in a framework then reading express's code
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[20:02] yaymukund: how do you guys manage your db connections. Right now, I keep a single db connection for the whole app, but I'm not sure if it's necessary.
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[20:03] westg: necessary to do what?
[20:03] westg: keep a single connection?
[20:03] yaymukund: yes
[20:03] SubStack: express is not a good example to look over
[20:03] SubStack: it is very big and has a lot of moving parts
[20:03] SubStack: find something tiny and understand it completely instead
[20:04] westg: like formidable?
[20:04] westg: well that's not relatively tiny either I guess
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[20:06] SubStack: something <100 lines would be a pretty good fit
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[20:07] Brandon_R: hi guys
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[20:09] TooTallNate: hi
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[20:09] Brandon_R: does node .8 have an eta?
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[20:10] TooTallNate: "when it's ready"
[20:10] TooTallNate: ;)
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[20:10] gkatsev: ETAs are for chumps
[20:10] TooTallNate: no really, there's a few blockers that need to be worked out first
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[20:11] westg: can't wait for the 1.0 party
[20:11] westg: unlimited free drinks and food for everyone
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[20:13] gkatsev: westg: for everyone?
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[20:13] mmalecki: I hope 1.0 never happens
[20:14] Qalqi: got this error while installing cloud9
[20:14] Qalqi: http://dpaste.org/hK4ob/
[20:15] Qalqi:  i have xml2 installed
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[20:17] Qalqi: westg: where will the party be held?
[20:17] timoxley: mmalecki once it's 1.0 people will expect more and it won't be new "cutting edge" tech no more. 0.x forever.
[20:17] TooTallNate: at westg's house of course
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[20:19] Brandon_R: why not? 1.0 is a sign of a mature product
[20:19] Brandon_R: php is at 5.4
[20:19] Brandon_R: php is 5.4 times more mature than node
[20:19] timoxley: Brandon_R it probably stopped being exciting to develop on once it hit 1.x
[20:19] gkatsev: {{some comment about how terrible php is}}
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[20:20] mmalecki: timoxley: yeah. also, as a core contributor, I won't be able to break APIs anymore :(
[20:20] systemfault: s/mature/messy
[20:20] Brandon_R: awe :(
[20:20] Brandon_R: mature usually means frozen api's
[20:21] Qalqi: nyone please have a look at  http://dpaste.org/hK4ob/#l103
[20:21] Brandon_R: i agree there is some psychology in the version numbers
[20:21] timoxley: Brandon_R in node that means even numbered releases
[20:21] TooTallNate: i don't think any of the core guys are in a rush to get to 1.0
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[20:21] TooTallNate: heck i'd be fine with a 0.10.x
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[20:21] Brandon_R: for example nginx versions of < 1 makes me feel more cutting edge than the ones over 1.0
[20:21] gkatsev: 0.100.x
[20:22] Brandon_R: do you guys think there is a psychology to version numbers and if so why?
[20:22] timoxley: TooTallNate request is at version 2.9.153 
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[20:22] timoxley: there's no reason node can't go greater than 9. they're not decimal numbers
[20:23] timoxley: well they are
[20:23] timoxley: you knwo what I'm syaing
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[20:23] Brandon_R: i can't wait for node 1.3.37
[20:24] Brandon_R: what is ryan's job these days since he retired?
[20:24] gkatsev: that's coming out in 15 days
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[20:25] Brandon_R: cool
[20:25] Brandon_R: it's not stable though
[20:25] Brandon_R: do you guys know about xenforo?
[20:26] sanitypassing: Yeah
[20:26] sanitypassing: xenforo is nice
[20:27] Brandon_R: i am thinking about making a forum app in node
[20:28] Brandon_R: is there a market for it?
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[20:39] timoxley: SubStack I should do my own benchmarks, but any idea of the network overhead for establishing a dnode connection?
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[20:42] SubStack: timoxley: probably tons but what should that matter?
[20:42] SubStack: just establish the connection at startup and let it sit idle
[20:42] SubStack: upnode does that already
[20:44] timoxley: SubStack sure, that works a treat if you want persistent connections. Thing I'm working on does infrequent, shortlived, one-way communication
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[20:44] timoxley: SubStack and I instinctively reached for dnode, but thinking, perhaps just sending a message over socketio might be more 'lean'
[20:44] mmalecki: timoxley: see nssocket
[20:45] SubStack: timoxley: in the browser then?
[20:45] SubStack: why not ajax?
[20:45] timoxley: SubStack two node processes
[20:45] SubStack: why would you use socketio for that I don't even...
[20:46] SubStack: http works great or a raw tcp connection
[20:46] SubStack: but measure first to make sure it's an actual problem before you go about solving it
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[20:47] timoxley: SubStack *you* were the one who convinced me to use socketio over raw tcp connection for node-node communication about 3 months ago
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[20:47] timoxley: mmalecki thanks, checking it out
[20:47] mmalecki: lol
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[20:47] RLa: is there a description how much memory overhead objects have in v8?
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[20:49] Brandon_R: i'm making a new lib
[20:49] Brandon_R: sperm.js
[20:49] SubStack: timoxley: um I would never advocate that?
[20:51] timoxley: SubStack bah.
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[20:54] timoxley: can't find the irc log. You're right though. http post is probably more suitable.
[20:54] owen1: i add 'strict mode' to my js file but don't see any errors.
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[20:55] owen1: is strint mode only for js or is it apply to node as well?
[20:55] timoxley: owen1 it applies to node
[20:55] benvie: only a few specific things will cause errors
[20:55] benvie: which apparently you didn't do
[20:56] timoxley: owen1 try using an undefined variable.
[20:56] ioscale: hey there, does anyone know a good overview of nodejs mvc-style frameworks? or is everyone using express?
[20:56] owen1: timoxley: i have eval('var a =5') and test = 'hi'
[20:57] timoxley: ioscale express has little to nothing to do with mvc really.
[20:57] ioscale: yes, i know :) that's why i am asking… it's pretty open.
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[20:58] ioscale: just try to find out what people are "generally" using for apps in nodejs… most frameworks i have looked at are still pretty young (as is nodejs)
[20:58] ioscale: and feel relatively immature
[20:58] sanitypassing: is there any way of playing audio through node?
[20:59] owen1: ioscale: i use it instead of bash script or a ruby script
[20:59] owen1: ioscale: my cronjob uses a node script
[20:59] ioscale: @sanitypassing did you mean something like this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3955103/streaming-audio-from-a-node-js-server-to-html5-audio-tag
[20:59] timoxley: ioscale haven't used but are on my todo list: http://mcavage.github.com/node-restify/ http://flatironjs.org/ http://towerjs.org/ http://railwayjs.com/ http://geddyjs.org/ http://zappajs.org/
[21:00] sanitypassing: ioscale: not quite. I want to play audio on node, but not stream it
[21:00] timoxley: sanitypassing you mean, like, write an app in node that plays audio directly?
[21:00] sanitypassing: Yep,
[21:00] Brandon_R: sanitypassing try say.js
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[21:01] sanitypassing: That's not quite what I'm lookin for
[21:01] sanitypassing: looking*
[21:01] ioscale: @owen1: ok, well i want to build a widget serving framework based on node + plus api and all… express looks like a viable option but i would like to add some "guidelines" for other devs
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[21:01] Brandon_R: oj
[21:01] timoxley: sanitypassing not really what node is designed for as far as I can tell. kind of like how directx isn't for web servers.
[21:02] sanitypassing: timoxley: yeah, but I bet you somewhere, someone has tried it. :)
[21:02] TooTallNate: sanitypassing: try node-audio maybe
[21:02] timoxley: sanitypassing but you could shell out to some other process that could do it
[21:02] TooTallNate: sanitypassing: err, node-sound rather
[21:02] TooTallNate: https://github.com/xk/node-sound
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[21:03] sanitypassing: ah, all the docs are in spanish. D:
[21:03] timoxley: sanitypassing chrome doesn't auto translate them for you?
[21:03] sanitypassing: it does, but sometimes the translation are bad.
[21:03] sanitypassing: also, this is OSX only.
[21:03] ioscale: @timoxley: thx for the list.
[21:04] sanitypassing: I don't have OSX.
[21:05] timoxley: ioscale some others http://stratajs.org/ http://www.socketstream.org/
[21:05] Brandon_R: doesn't google have a text to speech api?
[21:05] TooTallNate: sanitypassing: i *think* there's some linux support too, but honestly i've never used the module
[21:06] sanitypassing: heh, don't have linux either. D:
[21:06] Brandon_R: node is too awesome, i'm going back to php
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[21:11] ioscale: aaahhhh everybody uses coffee script. be gone evil syntax :)
[21:14] owen1: i am confused. what the recent node version? if i go to http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.7.6/ it's 0.7.6 but if i go to http://nodejs.org/ it's 0.6.13
[21:14] owen1: (and i was able to install 0.7.6)
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[21:15] RLa: 0.6.x is said to be more stable
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[21:15] kkkkk: hello every1
[21:15] gdbz: 0.7 is development
[21:15] RLa: and some packages might not work with 0.7.x
[21:15] owen1: RLa: gdbz got it. where are the docs for 0.7?
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[21:16] RLa: didn't they come with download?
[21:18] owen1: RLa: it's a pkg file that i double click on
[21:18] kkkkk: whats the most famous site running on node?
[21:19] RLa: cloud9 (ide) seems to be pretty well-known
[21:20] gdbz: see frontpage nodejs.org ?
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[21:26] RLa: how did you get memory stats in node?
[21:26] RLa: there was some command that gave used memory
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[21:29] RLa: found it, it's process.memoryUsage()
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[21:47] mattrobenolt: What's the defacto template engine people are using?
[21:48] AviMarcus: defacto? there's lotsa popular ones
[21:48] ioscale: well jade is used a lot… there is a good article on dust.js by linkedin, too
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[21:50] RLa: hm, measured 160 bytes per object (10 properties of type Number, from Math.random())
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[21:52] owen1: i have a user.js file where i have my db interaction with the user collection in my db. i can require it and use the new keyword to create a user object and everything is fine. i want to add a function that delete this collection. this is a 'class method' and not attached to an instance. how do i do that in js?
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[21:54] benvie: static method right
[21:54] benvie: so if you have a class
[21:55] owen1: benvie: i have a constractor function called User, and all kind of prototype functions.
[21:55] benvie: function MyClass(){ /*ctor stuff*/ } MyClass.prototype = { /*proto stuff */ }; MyClass.staticFunction = function(){ /*static function here*/ }
[21:55] owen1: prototype.add , delete, etc
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[21:56] owen1: benvie: oh. just take out the prototype. 
[21:56] owen1: let me try
[21:56] benvie: like Buffer.isBuffer is an example
[21:56] benvie: you just put the static methods right on the constructor
[21:56] benvie: er functions, not methods
[21:56] RLa: hm, single property of type Number takes only 16 bytes which seems very good
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[21:59] Brandon_R: hi
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[22:01] owen1: benvie: works. so it's called static method in the js world?
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[22:06] Brandon_R: is node.js fast enough for writing game servers?
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[22:12] Brandon_R: hey wizel
[22:13] TooTallNate: Brandon_R: there were mostly game servers written for node knockout last year
[22:13] Brandon_R: i'm talking about a game server whose frontend is written in c++ and the like
[22:13] Brandon_R: not html5 game servers
[22:13] Brandon_R: i'm assuming yes
[22:13] Brandon_R: but i would like to see some examples
[22:13] Brandon_R: will look more into this
[22:14] gkatsev: probably
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[22:17] dtrejo: I'd say probably, especially if people are using node for high frequency trading
[22:17] dtrejo: which I've seen hints of on the mailing list
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[22:24] TooTallNate: Brandon_R: i'd be very good for that i'd say. better even than over html5 since you can optimize your protocol
[22:24] cainus: anyone got mocha running in a Makefile?  somehow all my passing tests fail when I "make test"
[22:25] Brandon_R: i would probably still use json
[22:25] TooTallNate: s/^i\'d/it would/
[22:26] Brandon_R: would i be overly optimistic if i were to skip v8 alltogether and just use libuv?
[22:26] TooTallNate: probably fine as long as you're not writing the next battlefield :D
[22:26] TooTallNate: ^ re: json
[22:26] Brandon_R: that's what i hope i am writing :P
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[22:27] TooTallNate: well modern fps use combinations of tcp and udp
[22:27] Brandon_R: yep
[22:27] TooTallNate: and advanced prediction algorithms for sketchy connections
[22:28] Brandon_R: woah cool
[22:28] mc: i'd make a joke about udp, but you might not get it
[22:28] mc: …zing!
[22:28] Brandon_R: lol
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[22:29] Brandon_R: do you know where i can get that on a t shirt?
[22:29] mc: not sure, but if you find out let me know
[22:31] dtrejo: make one on teespring.com
[22:31] Brandon_R: does anyone here know anything about buying cars?
[22:32] mc: Brandon_R: like what?
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[22:32] Brandon_R: does this look legit? http://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/2903291207.html
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[22:32] TooTallNate: well... call him!
[22:33] mc: blue book on it is about $4k
[22:33] mc: so i'd expect either very high mileage, or possibly some repairs needed
[22:34] Brandon_R: 121k miles :(
[22:34] mc: for a 99 that's fairly reasonable
[22:34] mc: average is 13-15k per year
[22:34] AntelopeSalad: on the topic of game dev, i remember a really good article on network prediction written by john carmack
[22:34] Brandon_R: i sent an email
[22:34] Brandon_R: i hope my first car doesn't kill me
[22:35] mc: this will be your first car?
[22:36] Brandon_R: yeah
[22:36] Brandon_R: if it's in good ocndition
[22:36] Brandon_R: condition*
[22:37] mc: i'd suggest staying away from rear wheel drive for a first car
[22:37] Brandon_R: it's stick shift so my mom might not even buy it for me
[22:37] Brandon_R: buy i;m sure i can convince her :P
[22:39] mc: i think stick shift is a good idea
[22:39] mc: but i think look for something front wheel drive
[22:39] mc: unless you're in an area that doesn't get snow
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[22:39] CIA-19: node: 03Nathan Rajlich 07master * r70e6889 10/ configure : 
[22:39] CIA-19: node: build: make --openssl-use-sys a boolean option
[22:39] CIA-19: node: Before you had to enter a truthy value like: --openssl-use-sys=1 - http://git.io/QgOpWw
[22:40] Brandon_R: oh well, 3 years ago we got soo much snow i couldn't open my door but this year we had no snow
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[22:41] mc: just get it inspected before you buy
[22:41] mc: typically between $75-100 at any reputable mechanic
[22:41] mc: they'll look over the whole thing and let you know if it needs any repairs
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[22:43] yaymukund: dumb question-- if have exports.f = blah. how do I do exports.g = function() { this_module.f() } ?
[22:43] zomg: yaymukund: exports.f()
[22:44] yaymukund: oh, duh
[22:44] yaymukund: thanks, zomg 
[22:44] yaymukund: :D
[22:44] zomg: np
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[22:45] roopeshv: I am looking for some help on reading jpeg files from other website and store it to file. and I seem to have problems with that. can anyone help with that
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[22:47] Brandon_R: thanks for the advice
[22:47] cainus: roopeshv:  https://github.com/mikeal/request 
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[22:48] cainus: has examples on streaming to fs
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[22:51] roopeshv: cainus: I am trying it out. give me few minutes.
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[22:54] roopeshv: seems to store to a file, but instead of store it to a file, can I keep it in a stream? and upload it to s3 without writing it to a file? I am using s3 library noxmox
[22:54] roopeshv: cainus: seems to store to a file, but instead of store it to a file, can I keep it in a stream? and upload it to s3 without writing it to a file? I am using s3 library noxmox
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[22:56] aroman: is there a better way of doing a 'join'-like operation in an async way? https://gist.github.com/2066123 is what I'm looking at currently.
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[22:57] thomaschaaf: hey I would like to also have the gateway and the netmask from os.getInterfaces. Is that possible with the current code base? I saw this https://gist.github.com/521993
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[22:57] cainus: what datastore/driver/lib is that?
[22:58] cainus: ^aroman
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[22:58] aroman: cainus: Mongoose/MongoDB
[22:58] philips has joined the channel
[22:58] aroman: hence 'join-like', since it's non-relational and (obviously) nonblocking.
[23:00] TheFuzzball: Is there a way to get the duration in seconds of an MP3 file without using an ffmpeg plugin?
[23:00] cainus: looks like it's already "in an async way" to me... though you can do that in just 2 queries instead of n+1 queries
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[23:01] aroman: cainus: what do you mean?
[23:02] cainus: get the courses you want, then get all their ids into an array, then get all assignments that have those ids, THEN do the 'join'
[23:03] cainus: mongo kinda sucks for relational stuff
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[23:04] cainus: if it's 1-to-many, you can just have Courses hold the assignment ids in an array in the Course document
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[23:04] aroman: hmm
[23:05] aroman: yeah I guess what would be a bit more natural
[23:05] cainus: only problem is that then you have to manage that yourself
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[23:06] cainus: eg you have to delete the id from the array in the Course when you delete assignment
[23:06] aroman: what did you mean by 'get their ids into an array'? 
[23:06] cainus: mongo docs can have an array for a field
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[23:06] aroman: oh you mean actually change my schema
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[23:07] cainus: oh in the algorithm I mentioned first you don't need to change schema
[23:07] aroman: yeah that's what I was referring to
[23:07] aroman: currently there are no array keys used for inheritance
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[23:07] cainus: yeah get all the course ids first and then get all assignments for those courseids in one query
[23:07] aroman: how could I do that?
[23:08] aroman: courses and assignments are two separate collections
[23:08] cainus: step 1.  get all assignment ids
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[23:08] cainus: errr sorry
[23:08] cainus: 1. get all course ids
[23:09] cainus: 2. get all assignments for those courseids  (might be in map-reduce land here... I'd have to recheck the mongo API)
[23:09] cainus: 3. jam them all together
[23:10] aroman: isn't that exactly what I'm doing, except I'm getting the entire course document and not just the id?
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[23:11] cainus: looks like $in is all you need, once you have the list of Course ids:  http://www.mongodb.org/display/DOCS/OR+operations+in+query+expressions
[23:11] cainus: looks to me like your algo loops over the courses and queries for their assignments individually
[23:11] cainus: 100 courses = 101 queries
[23:12] aroman: 100 courses is 200 queries
[23:12] aroman: err wait
[23:12] cainus: howso?
[23:12] cainus: you can do it in 2
[23:12] cainus: heh
[23:12] aroman: nevermind, you're right
[23:12] aroman: that's what i'm doing right now, yes.
[23:13] cainus: you only need to query the assignments collection once
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[23:13] aroman: oh I see what you're saying
[23:13] aroman: $in : [ course_id1, course_id2, course_id3]
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[23:14] cainus: doesn't really matter until you're concerned about performance, but you are hitting mongo way more than you need to
[23:14] cainus: yeah you got it
[23:14] cainus: not sure how mongoose exposes that... might be just like it seems
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[23:15] aroman: there's some syntactical sugar around it
[23:15] owen1: i have a constructor function called User(name)   is it reasonable to call my static function User.find from within it?
[23:15] Brandon_R: does anyone here know of a mapreduce written in pure c?
[23:17] cainus: Brandon_r: not sure how that makes sense :)
[23:17] aroman: cainus: hmm, so if I need an array of the course_id's I want, I need to re-zip the courses I get back into an array
[23:17] Brandon_R: i looked at hadroop
[23:18] Brandon_R: but it's written in java
[23:18] aroman: because I can't just pluck the course_id from the courses collection -- I need to return the other attributes
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[23:19] cainus: aroman: why not just get all attrs but pluck out the ids for the second query?
[23:20] cainus: Brandon_R: so?
[23:20] aroman: cainus: pluck them out with like a regular old JS forEach loop?
[23:20] cainus: _.pluck is my favorite way :)
[23:20] aroman: i don't have underscore xD
[23:20] owen1: i need guidance about desigining my api for a user model.
[23:21] cainus: well you could require() it... or just do good-old-fashioned for loops... don't do 2 queries to mongo just because you're too lazy to pluck though ;)
[23:21] owen1: i am not sure which functions should be object and which should be static..
[23:21] aroman: yeah that's definitely a better idea. but yeah i might as well use underscore server-side.. I use it all the time on the client (with Backbone)
[23:21] owen1: basicaly i need a module that will interact with a users collections.
[23:22] cainus: yeah I try not to write javascript without underscore ;)
[23:22] aroman: heh
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[23:23] cainus: owen1: you using some kind of orm or something?
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[23:24] cainus: going for an activerecord pattern maybe?
[23:24] thomaschaaf: no one?
[23:25] mmalecki: resourceful has some relations implemented
[23:25] mmalecki: there are some mongodb engines, I think
[23:26] aroman: cainus: oh that's a _much_ better pattern
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[23:27] owen1: cainus: not using orm. using the mongojs i have a seperate file that i think of exposing via module exports = User
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[23:28] owen1: cainus: User is a constructor function. i am not sure what should be the purpose of this funcion. should it go to the mongo and bring back the user by it's name?
[23:28] cainus: owen1: you might actually want to go with mongoose like aroman if you want model objects like that... 
[23:28] owen1: if that's the case, user = new User('dan') will not work since i want to do it async.
[23:29] mmalecki: getters should be static functions
[23:29] mmalecki: User.get('dan'), etc.
[23:29] mmalecki: constructor shouldn't perform any I/O
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[23:29] owen1: mmalecki: got it.
[23:30] owen1: mmalecki: so get will by somthing like this: User.get('dan', addProduct) 
[23:30] owen1: ?
[23:30] owen1: by=do
[23:30] mmalecki: owen1: yeah, User.get('dan', callback)
[23:30] owen1: since it's async, i have to pass a callback.
[23:30] mmalecki: yup
[23:30] cainus: mmalecki: resourceful looks good... I'd never seen that
[23:31] owen1: mmalecki: so in the case of adding products to a user, i don't even neeed to use new ( user = new User() )
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[23:31] mmalecki: cainus: :) check out flatiron in general, https://github.com/flatiron/
[23:32] owen1: mmalecki: and maybe i don't even need the constructor function?
[23:32] aroman: cainus: this is what I'm sticking with, it looks like. https://gist.github.com/2066519 You score 30 Internet points for getting me to use underscore on the server w/ mongodb. awesome combo.
[23:32] mmalecki: owen1: yeah, you probably want to leave it empty unless you initialize some properties
[23:33] aroman: 2 queries.
[23:33] owen1: mmalecki: ok. thanks! going to try your advice.
[23:33] cainus: aroman: more beautiful than I imagined :)
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[23:34] aroman: cainus: you should see the horrible map/reduce I was using before with a single document that contained both course AND assignment data. *shudders*
[23:35] cainus: haha
[23:35] cainus: now mongo gets to relax a bit too
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[23:39] cainus: mmalecki: looks like couch is the only engine so far?
[23:39] cainus: https://github.com/flatiron/resourceful/tree/master/lib/resourceful/engines
[23:40] owen1: after i run my node script i have to hit ctrl+c. is it normal?
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[23:40] cainus: owen1: sometimes  :)
[23:41] mmalecki: cainus: http://search.npmjs.org/#/resourceful-mongo http://search.npmjs.org/#/resourceful-riak and probably more :)
[23:42] cainus: ahhh separate packages
[23:42] cainus: I was just looking at https://github.com/flatiron/resourceful/tree/master/lib/resourceful/engines
[23:42] cainus: for some reason couch gets the primetime treatment ;)
[23:43] mmalecki: cainus: well, we use couch in production. also it's a reference engine implementation
[23:44] cainus: cool... I'm going to give this a go for something I'm working on... I've been looking for something like this, so I don't have to write it ;)
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[23:47] mmalecki: cainus: great :). yeah, we write modules so that you don't have to :D
[23:47] cainus: :)
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