[00:00] TooTallNate: tenshihan: ya
[00:00] garrettwilkin: Do I need to run node 0.4 to use hook.io?
[00:00] garrettwilkin: since it depends on npm 1.0.x
[00:00] garrettwilkin: and it seems that i can't install npm 1.0.103
[00:00] garrettwilkin: if I have node 0.6 installed
[00:00] garrettwilkin: it says that I would have to use node 0.4?
[00:00] tenshihan: TooTallNate: I am now attempting node-gyp on linux as it's our dev server. I got configure to work. build get this...http://pastebin.com/ezrX7CKy
[00:01] isaacs: garrettwilkin: you can use npm 1.0.106 with node 0.4
[00:01] garrettwilkin: I must be doing something horribly wrong
[00:01] isaacs: garrettwilkin: why wouldn't you be able to?
[00:01] garrettwilkin: okay
[00:01] garrettwilkin: i just didn't think I had to go that far back
[00:01] garrettwilkin: first I tried to make it work with 0.7
[00:01] garrettwilkin: and just made a huge mess and confused myself
[00:01] garrettwilkin: so i started over 
[00:01] garrettwilkin: with a node 0.6 install
[00:01] garrettwilkin: and install npm with the curl command
[00:02] garrettwilkin: and then thought maybe npm can downgrade itself?
[00:02] tenshihan: TooTallNate: found the problem nm
[00:02] TooTallNate: tenshihan: what was it?
[00:02] tenshihan: something between the keyboard and chair
[00:02] garrettwilkin: so i tried sudo npm install npm@1.0.103
[00:02] TooTallNate: :p
[00:03] remysharp: "createprocessW" on windows, any ideas anyone? kinda stuffed atm :-\
[00:03] itayneeman: isaacs: TooTallNate: thanks for the suggestions/help. I'll look into changing how Cover works based on what you said, as I think it can be greatly improved (and stabilized)
[00:03] itayneeman: any other suggestions/requests are always welcome
[00:03] itayneeman: isaacs: if there is a specific test framework you want me to make it work with, just let me know
[00:03] isaacs: itayneeman: tap
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[00:04] isaacs: garrettwilkin: curl http://npmjs.org/install.sh | npm_install=1.0.106 sh
[00:04] itayneeman: isaacs: OK - would you like CLI output, or HTML output (or configurable)?
[00:04] isaacs: itayneeman: html dumped into --coverage-dir or some such
[00:04] garrettwilkin: I didn't see that there was a 1.0.106
[00:04] garrettwilkin: in the npm info npm
[00:04] garrettwilkin: thanks for the tip
[00:04] garrettwilkin: ill try downgrading to node 0.4  and then installing hook.io
[00:04] garrettwilkin: i guess that Nodejitsu is still on 0.4?
[00:05] isaacs: itayneeman: it's got some integration with runforcover already, but it's got some issues (documented on the issues list in github)
[00:05] itayneeman: isaacs: I'll take a look at the issues
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[00:06] itayneeman: I see just issue #27, yes?
[00:06] garrettwilkin: sweet!  didn't know that I could use that argument to specify the version
[00:06] garrettwilkin: thanks!
[00:09] itayneeman: isaacs: I'm not sure I understand the issue. runforcover will only read the files which you do require() on (it hooks into the .js extension)
[00:09] tenshihan: so i have a question. if i use a cpp extension it's faster than writing code in node, correct?
[00:09] tenshihan: my partner is attempting to argue the opposite
[00:10] jerrysv: tenshihan: depends
[00:10] jerrysv: tenshihan: if you do a lot of conversion back and forth between node and cpp, you lose anything you gain
[00:10] jerrysv: if you manage your own garbage collection, you can get a bit of a gain
[00:10] tenshihan: well let's say i send over some data have cpp do all the work and send it back. That's what'm going for
[00:11] jerrysv: but if you just run a very tight loop in javascript for 100000 loops, who knows? your javascript might end up being better in the end
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[00:11] tenshihan: something to benchmark for sure
[00:11] jerrysv: tenshihan: check out http://legitimatesounding.com/blog/Faster_sometimes_Associative_Arrays_with_Node_js.html
[00:11] bingomanatee_: I know this seems basic -- how do you run forever from the console without having IT die when you log off?
[00:11] bingomanatee_: (ubuntu)
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[00:12] tenshihan: bingomanatee_: nohup command & 2>&1
[00:12] itayneeman: isaacs: in that sense, it'll do no more file reading than was already done (as even the original require hook needs to read those files in)
[00:12] bingomanatee_: thx
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[00:14] isaacs: itayneeman: yeah, but look through the code.
[00:14] isaacs: itayneeman: it's doing a lot more file reading than it needs to.
[00:14] isaacs: it's not runforcover, it's the specifics of how its integrated into node-tap
[00:14] itayneeman: isaacs: the tap code, or the runforcover code?
[00:14] isaacs: itayneeman: the tap code
[00:14] itayneeman: isaacs: ah. here? https://github.com/isaacs/node-tap/blob/master/lib/tap-runner.js
[00:14] isaacs: teag
[00:14] isaacs: yeah
[00:15] isaacs: also a lot of it is sync, and it only works on files in lib/, etc.
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[00:15] itayneeman: isaacs: why only in lib/?
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[00:16] isaacs: itayneeman: becasue it checks the folder to see if there are any files that *never* get loaded
[00:17] isaacs: itayneeman: but really, it should just not do that.
[00:17] itayneeman: isaacs: "it" being runforcover or tap?
[00:18] itayneeman: isaacs: also, tap spawns a new process per test file, is that right?
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[00:18] isaacs: itayneeman: the coverage stuf in tap
[00:18] isaacs: itayneeman: yes, the runner runs each test file in a new process.
[00:18] itayneeman: itayneeman: OK
[00:19] isaacs: itayneeman: if you're going to look into this, please don't re-invent the whole thing from scratch.
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[00:19] itayneeman: isaacs: in what sense? I try and avoid doing that, but obviously people have different ideas
[00:19] isaacs: itayneeman: if you can fix the problems, great.  but the other bits, like how it generates a new file to load runforcover and then dump the results, that much is probably fine.
[00:20] isaacs: itayneeman: sync fs io is not allowed.  reading files unnecessarily is not allowed.  it must work in files in "." by default, not a subdire.
[00:20] isaacs: *subdir
[00:20] isaacs: other than that, taps coverage stuff is pretty good.
[00:20] isaacs: i don't care very much about pretty output.
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[00:21] isaacs: i care much more about valid results with a minimum of overhead and a minimum of lines changed.
[00:21] itayneeman: isaacs: instrumentation seems to require lines changing, no?
[00:21] isaacs: itayneeman: yes.  so the minimum is likely greater than 0 :)
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[00:22] itayneeman: isaacs: :)
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[00:22] itayneeman: isaacs: my fork was meant to solve a couple of things: 1. collect intra-line info (e.g. true || b() <-- want to know that b() wasn't executed). 2. collect block-level coverage info. 3. be able to see the data in a clear way. 4. generate correct code
[00:22] itayneeman: isaacs: I'll think about your issues
[00:22] itayneeman: but I think they may be tied up to how runforcover works
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[00:22] itayneeman: isaacs: thanks for the poitner though, I will take a look
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[00:28] isaacs: itayneeman: np
[00:28] isaacs: itayneeman: bunker should be able to do that.  i'm not sure why runforcover doesn't have it
[00:29] isaacs: itayneeman: i know for sure that uglify can generate correct code to do this.
[00:29] isaacs: because i've done it, and showed it off to SubStack back in 2011, which is why he wrote Bunker.
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[00:31] ningu: why do people prefer centos for web servers?
[00:32] ningu: I've never used centos, so I have no idea what it's like. most familiar with ubuntu and debian.
[00:32] iain_: ningu: no idea, centos/redhat is horrible
[00:32] isaacs: ningu: because they use rhel at work
[00:32] isaacs: ningu: but yes, it's pretty much the worst thing ever.
[00:32] ningu: isaacs: so my intuition to go with debian is not a bad one?
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[00:32] ningu: I've always liked debian.
[00:32] isaacs: no, i much prefer debian
[00:32] ningu: ubuntu for desktop, perhaps.
[00:32] iain_: ningu: debian rocks for ease of use / upgrades
[00:32] isaacs: mint is nice, but i don't know how it is for servers.
[00:32] dreamdust: 
ACTION prefers Debian

[00:33] isaacs: ubuntu = ugly busted windows, mint = ugly busted mac os
[00:33] ningu: haha
[00:33] isaacs: so, slightly less ugly.
[00:33] isaacs: just as busted.
[00:33] iain_: lol
[00:33] isaacs: same debian craziness.
[00:33] ningu: I like ubuntu, actually. wouldn't use it by choice as my desktop env, but I wouldn't go crazy if I had it.
[00:33] isaacs: there's no desktop os anywhere near as nice as os x, imo
[00:33] ningu: maybe it's gone downhill, I dunno. haven't used it in a couple years.
[00:33] ningu: right, that's why I use os x :P
[00:34] ningu: I was so happy when os x came out, cause I already had been a mac person since I was little, but had been keeping random x86 boxes around for linux for years.
[00:34] ningu: suddenly I had it all in one laptop.
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[00:35] ningu: it did kind of freak me out the first time I ran apt-get on a mac
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[00:37] dilvie: isaacs: windows 7 isn't bad. It's much better than any variant of linux I'm aware of.
[00:38] ningu: dilvie: I hope you are trolling...
[00:38] ningu: not that windows 7 is total crap, but...
[00:38] dilvie: if went back in time 10 years and told me I'd say that about a Microsoft product, I'd punch you in the nose.
[00:39] dilvie: ningu: no, I'm not. Windows 7 is a solid OS with decent usability. It even has a better shell (powershell -- has OO piping, pretty badass, actually)
[00:39] dilvie: not that I think there's anything wrong with bash.. it's just showing its age.
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[00:40] dilvie: for the first time in a really long time, MS is actually producing some decent, current tech, instead of playing catch up.
[00:41] dilvie: windows8 is also the most standards-compliant GUI framework I'm aware of.
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[00:42] dilvie: it's totally bizarre that I'm sounding like an MS fanboy.
[00:42] isaacs: 
ACTION didn't realize there was a standard for GUI frameworks to comply with...

[00:42] dilvie: I haven't even mentioned that they produce the best IDE I've ever used.
[00:42] ningu: I think it's more like there are lots of standards. which is to say, there are none :)
[00:42] dilvie: isaacs: html / css / js
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[00:59] Daegalus: Anyone know if the pricing on RedisToGo is ram memory or disk memory? because the pricing seems high if its disk memory
[01:00] gzmask: emscripten question: what is the operation overloading functions look like in js after the convertion? 
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[01:01] Tobsn: Daegalus, rackspace cloud
[01:02] Tobsn: and Daegalus, it says pretty but MEMORY ;)
[01:03] Daegalus: ya, i guess if it was disk, it would say storage or something
[01:03] Tobsn: Daegalus, a 1gb node at rackspace cloud cost you 86bucks a month
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[01:03] Daegalus: Tobsn: question, why would i choose Rackspace over AWS or Azure
[01:04] Tobsn: you can start with 256mb thats 10 bucks a month
[01:04] Tobsn: because AWS has outages and the performance is way lower
[01:04] Tobsn: besides that rackspace cloud is way faster to set up
[01:04] Tobsn: AWS/Azure suck against rackspace cloud
[01:04] Tobsn: and we tried them inhouse here a lot
[01:04] Tobsn: you get more bang for the buck at rs
[01:05] Daegalus: well, reason being, being part of Bizspark, I get 2 free Small instances, or 1 medium
[01:05] Daegalus: for Azure
[01:05] Tobsn: well, do whatever, im just trying to tell you redistogo looks like a ripoff
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[01:06] Daegalus: Tobsn: redis to go is purely redis hosting using AWS/Heroku, even says it at the bottom of the page
[01:06] Tobsn: heroku was down last week
[01:06] Tobsn: aws is down every couple weeks
[01:06] Tobsn: azure is microsoft, i dont trust microsoft
[01:06] Tobsn: :)
[01:07] Tobsn: if you want solid hosting go with softlayer, if you need vm's go with rackspace cloud
[01:07] Tobsn: if you get shit for free, take the free shit
[01:07] Tobsn: :)
[01:08] Daegalus: i have no problems with microsoft. But anyways, this is a small time unimportant to the world project. Its mostly for a game, and its a build calculator for a game. Im designing it in HTML5/JS and Node.js and Im using Redis for data store. Just wanted to see my options
[01:08] Daegalus: but it seems redis does not have a official or stable Windows port, so Azure might be out
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[01:10] Daegalus: Anyways, thanks for you insight Tobsn, i will take it under consideration. and AWS was never in the cards, i have never really liked it.
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[01:12] Tobsn: Daegalus, http://www.rackspacecloud.com/2923-0-3-13.html
[01:13] Tobsn: if you want to sign up with rackspacecloud, do it over that link and i'll even set you up redis with a config that adjusts to your node size :P
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[01:14] Daegalus: Tobsn: ok, i will message you again if I decide on Rackspace. Issue is, I am still in super early developement. just hte basic folder structure and a bit of code. I got DB spec finished and a URL spec for some stuff, but I am not anywhere near production ready stuff. But if you often come in here, I will message you when and if the time comes so you can get the referal i am assuming
[01:15] Tobsn: twitter.com/tobsn - if im not here ;)
[01:15] Tobsn: http://www.tob.sn :D
[01:16] Daegalus: i like how you hae taken this conversation and already tweeted about it
[01:16] Tobsn: sure
[01:16] Tobsn: gonna deliver content, right? :)
[01:16] Daegalus: haha not really.
[01:16] Tobsn: :P
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[01:17] Daegalus: Tobsn: imagine something like this: http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/ but not in flash, has an entire DB backend for saving peoples configurations, user system, descriptions, commenting, and a way for people to share them easier.
[01:18] Tobsn: i built something like that
[01:18] Tobsn: 9 years ago
[01:18] Tobsn: for spacepioneers
[01:18] Daegalus: nice :D but ya, not necessarily delivering content, but peopel will be able to make builds, and link to it
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[01:22] Tobsn: you sure you want to code that?
[01:22] Daegalus: and if it catches on as THE site to do your builds on. there can be lots of ad revenue when the site launches
[01:22] Tobsn: seems like a lot of work for almost no payback
[01:22] Daegalus: why not, seems like a simple and small project to work on inbetween my classes and such
[01:22] Tobsn: sounds to me like a lot of tiny shit you have to do
[01:22] Tobsn: data entry etc.
[01:22] Daegalus: thats already automated
[01:22] Tobsn: hmm oh well
[01:22] Daegalus: this is just an idle project, its nothing serious.
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[01:22] Daegalus: yay netsplit?
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[01:33] CIA-102: node: 03isaacs 07master * r29463cb 10/ test/simple/test-process-argv-0.js : Update argv0 test to verify correct behavior - http://git.io/UgCDgQ
[01:33] CIA-102: node: 03isaacs 07master * r44daa98 10/ lib/vm.js : 
[01:33] CIA-102: node: Wrap NodeScript binding class in JavaScript layer
[01:33] CIA-102: node: This makes it easy to prevent errors where Script methods
[01:33] CIA-102: node: are called on non-script objects, resulting in Assertion failures. - http://git.io/nr78QQ
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[01:40] tenshihan: TooTallNate: hey dude, another question for ya. I'm trying to compile boost threads into my extension but this is popping up :  mutex.hpp:40: error: exception handling disabled, use -fexceptions to enable  i see you are doing      -fno-exceptions .. is there a problem with taking it out?
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[01:41] TooTallNate: tenshihan: see https://github.com/TooTallNate/node-gyp/issues/17
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[01:41] TooTallNate: scroll to the bottom for the TLDR
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[01:48] Tobsn: what does gyp exactly do?
[01:48] Tobsn: i read it but i dont really get it
[01:48] tenshihan: dude
[01:48] tenshihan: it's the shit
[01:48] Tobsn: lol
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[01:49] ningu: I don't want to be gypped
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[01:49] Tobsn: so it compiles .js to C?
[01:49] tenshihan: It's like a makefile + easy compiler
[01:49] tenshihan: no
[01:49] tenshihan: it compiles c++ into a library that node can use
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[01:49] Tobsn: hu?
[01:49] ningu: Tobsn: bindings...
[01:50] Tobsn: oh
[01:50] Tobsn: oooooh
[01:50] Tobsn: hmm
[01:50] Tobsn: *bookmark
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[01:54] fifo: Can someone please help me with http://pastebin.com/j8S5Twxy
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[01:55] fifo: I'm trying to create an object I can use as an instace.. can someone correct me?
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[01:55] fifo: I know I'm doing something wrong
[01:55] fifo: assume the first half of the paste lives in one file and the lower half lives in another
[01:55] bwen: fifo: how did you name the files?
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[01:56] rlidwka: looks good, what is the problem?
[01:56] fifo: so its correct?
[01:56] fifo: oh.. i just felt like it wasn't the "correct" way
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[01:56] bwen: felt == did not bother to actualy test it? O.o
[01:56] fifo: no no it works
[01:57] fifo: my question was if it was the correct way to do it
[01:57] markq: yep this is the correct way
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[01:57] bwen: oh ic
[01:57] fifo: ok
[01:57] fifo: thanks
[01:57] bwen: fifo: did you put the file in node_modules?
[01:57] AI42: Hi i have problems with jade, how to use img, i type img src='path to image' and jade parse it like <img/> O_o 
[01:58] fifo: uh no its living in a lib dir right now
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[01:58] markq: i(src='path')
[01:58] markq: ./[anything] would mean that it's in the same directory yeah
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[02:00] fifo: yeah
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[02:03] AI42: i(src='path') => <i src="my_logo_icon.png"></i>
[02:03] AI42: img(src='path') => <img src="my_logo_icon.png"/>
[02:04] AI42: so it does not work either
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[02:05] tmike: hey on the matter of jade, if you were to class something class="brush: js" would you use pre.brush:.js? or pre."brush: js"?
[02:05] digiwano_: why would you put a colon in a class name >_<
[02:06] tmike: not my code
[02:06] tmike: but I do need to use the class
[02:06] tmike: I'll use the quotes and see if it breaks
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[02:08] AI42: why i can't find how to work with images in documentation jade docs it's not docs it's just tutorial (
[02:09] tenshihan: does anyone know how to convert redis::client::string_vector into a string?
[02:09] tmike: what's wrong with <img src="blah"/>?
[02:09] unrob: Hi, I was hoping to get some help regarding the usage of accented characters with crypto.createHmac 
[02:09] tenshihan: you need a space between " nad /
[02:09] AI42: it doesn't work
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[02:09] tjholowaychuk: AI42 just use an image tag.. lol
[02:09] tjholowaychuk: same as any other tag :p
[02:09] tmike: that sounds like a jade bug, if it doesn't put the space in.
[02:09] tjholowaychuk: if it doesn't work the path to your image is incorrect
[02:09] tmike: and if the space is required
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[02:10] bwen: anyone can recommend a database for nodejs that have a driver capable of "streaming" the result assynchronously and not just return the whole results in one chunk ?
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[02:10] AI42: i've tested with html? path is correct
[02:10] AI42: *,
[02:11] unrob: My code is: var signer = crypto.createHmac('sha256', 'á'); var expected = signer.update("text").digest('hex'); it treats the 'á' as 'á' for some reason
[02:12] tmike: it defaults to unicode, right?
[02:12] tmike: because making sure your stream is encode properly could help.
[02:12] unrob: How would I go about doing that?
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[02:13] unrob: The actual string comes from a file, which I load doing: fs.readFileSync(configFile, 'utf-8');
[02:13] AI42: <tjholowaychuk> img src='path' => <img/>
[02:13] tjholowaychuk: AI42 that's not jade syntax for a tag...
[02:13] unrob: When I console.log the contents, it shows up correctly, though
[02:13] tjholowaychuk: img(src='path')
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[02:14] AI42: img(src='path') => <img src="my_logo_icon.png"/>
[02:14] AI42: and doesn't work
[02:15] markq: bwen, I think you can buffer data with mongoose but I'm not sure
[02:15] tmike: AI42 how can that not work?
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[02:15] markq: i mean pipe*
[02:16] tjholowaychuk: AI42 nothing wrong with that
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[02:17] tenshihan: anyone know how to convert string_vector into something String::New can handle?
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[02:22] rlidwka: String::New afair gets C string... I dont know what string_vector is, but you can probably google how to cast it to C string
[02:22] tenshihan: i have tried 
[02:22] tenshihan: it's specific to the redis - cpp library
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[02:43] alejandromg: isaacs: Can you share the link where you explain about and "style" guide for javascript (the comma first and more) :)
[02:43] maxogden: nodeguide.com/style.html
[02:44] isaacs: http://npmjs.org/doc/coding-style.html
[02:44] isaacs: alejandromg: or `npm help coding-style`
[02:44] alejandromg: That's the one that you put a while back on a gist?
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[02:46] alejandromg: btw thanks maxogden
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[02:47] zackattack: anyone here an nginx guy? (or girl)
[02:47] tmike: I've been playing with it recently, what's up?
[02:48] zackattack: I'm trying to figure out how to rewrite a request so it gets parsed by a directive later in the config file
[02:48] tmike: yeah I don't know anything about that
[02:48] zackattack: haha :)
[02:48] zackattack: me neither
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[02:50] ag4ve: is there a problem with jade on npm?
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[02:51] zackattack: whats the issue ag4ve 
[02:51] ag4ve: ie, npmjs.org is giving me 300 and 200 errors...
[02:51] tenshihan: I'm getting this: Error: Unable to load shared library /root/mrpi-redis-cplusplus-client-14e3829/out/Release/extension.node but i can see the file
[02:51] isaacs: ag4ve: 300 and 200 are not errors :)
[02:51] isaacs: ag4ve: in fact, 200 is 100% not an error.
[02:51] tmike: lol
[02:51] isaacs: ag4ve: it's the code for "Success"
[02:51] ag4ve: errr right
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[02:51] tenshihan: could it be because i !-fno-rtti
[02:51] isaacs: 304 = "content not modified".  ie, "What you said you have in your cache is the same thing I would give you, so you're all set."
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[02:53] ag4ve: npm has a cache.... *shrug* it doesn't seem to be downloading for me but i can always just clone the repo
[02:53] ag4ve: .... just wondering if it was me or a general issue
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[02:54] hermanjunge: Hi guys
[02:54] hermanjunge: anybody knows how to trap CTRL + C
[02:54] ag4ve: oh shit.... this is also the error you get when it's time to expand the vmdk....
[02:54] isaacs: ag4ve: you can always `npm cache clean`
[02:54] hermanjunge: to handle it in my own function
[02:55] isaacs: ag4ve: if you'd rather throw the cache away
[02:55] isaacs: hermanjunge: process.on('SIGINT', function() { ... })
[02:55] hermanjunge: sorry, I haven't seen you isaacs
[02:55] hermanjunge: of course you know :D
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[02:55] hermanjunge: Thanks a lot
[02:55] isaacs: hermanjunge: or, if it's a raw stream, you have to listen for the code explicitly
[02:55] isaacs: hermanjunge: like the repl does
[02:55] hermanjunge: isaacs
[02:55] isaacs: hi :)
[02:55] hermanjunge: another question since you are here
[02:55] maxogden: lol
[02:55] hermanjunge: tail recursion
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[02:56] hermanjunge: is really tail recursion, like erlang does?
[02:56] isaacs: here's the thing about tail recursion.
[02:56] isaacs: first, i'm going to tell you a little something about tail recursion.
[02:56] isaacs: then i'll tell you all about tail recursion.
[02:56] maxogden: 
ACTION rimshot

[02:56] hermanjunge: JAJAJJAJA
[02:56] hermanjunge: example
[02:56] isaacs: hermanjunge: no, there is no TCO in js
[02:56] SubStack: (tail (tail (tail (... recursion) ) ) )
[02:56] hermanjunge: loop() { doSomething(); setTimeout(loop, 1000); }
[02:57] isaacs: hermanjunge: but if you're doing stuff on nextTick or as a result of some async IO, then you'll drop the stack, which is a lot *like* tco
[02:57] hermanjunge: does it stack and clock my memory someday?
[02:57] isaacs: hermanjunge: no, because the timeout drops the stack
[02:57] isaacs: hermanjunge: but! that means you lose the return point as well.
[02:57] hermanjunge: so its safe to run it
[02:57] isaacs: hermanjunge: so, you can't return a value back 10 layers up.
[02:57] hermanjunge: for a main loop
[02:57] isaacs: hermanjunge: which *is* possible in erlang, scheme, etc.
[02:57] isaacs: oh, yeah, that's fine.
[02:57] isaacs: crockford dubbed that "eteration" once upon a time.
[02:57] ag4ve: there we go, killed my cpan tree and everything is good :)   back to code
[02:57] hermanjunge: the way one does in another languages do { doSomething(); waitOneSec(); } while(true)
[02:57] isaacs: the term didn't stick, but i liked it.
[02:58] isaacs: hermanjunge: right.
[02:58] hermanjunge: excellent
[02:58] isaacs: hermanjunge: that way is a lie, or a bad idea, or both.
[02:58] hermanjunge: I was doing a code, which was too procedural, and this do/while had me crazy
[02:58] isaacs: yep
[02:58] isaacs: you gotta chop it up for node
[02:58] hermanjunge: yep
[02:58] isaacs: which is kind of a good thing to do anyway for other reasons.
[02:59] hermanjunge: function One () { doSomething(); Two() }
[02:59] hermanjunge: function Two() { doOther(); Three() }
[02:59] hermanjunge: Yep
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[02:59] hermanjunge: thank you for your time
[02:59] hermanjunge: :D
[02:59] isaacs: hermanjunge: np
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[03:00] tenshihan: hmm
[03:00] tenshihan: this is failing all of a sudden
[03:00] tenshihan: var addon = require('/root/extension'); .. the file is there. but i get unable to load shared library
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[03:00] tenshihan: even if i pull a version that's a lil older that _was_ working
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[03:04] tenshihan: do you think this could be the culprit ? 'cflags_cc!': [ '-fno-exceptions','-fno-rtti' ]
[03:05] ag4ve: why isn't jade throwing an error or what is happening, i don't any jade directory under $HOME/node_modules: http://pastebin.me/e8440d992354f3e16479ca6f2ad200c2
[03:05] tenshihan: TooTallNate: do you know if using these flags can cause the creation of an unusable extension ? 'cflags_cc!': [ '-fno-exceptions','-fno-rtti' ]
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[03:06] monokrome: It shouldn't. Wouldn't an extension that needs RTTI or throws exceptions just fail to compile?...
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[03:08] tenshihan: it does fail to compile
[03:08] tenshihan: unless i add that flag
[03:08] tenshihan: then it compiles fine
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[03:08] monokrome: oh lol
[03:09] tenshihan: http://pastebin.com/t4rUKSMY
[03:09] tenshihan: that's the code for the extension i'm writing. maybe you can spot the error
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[03:11] monokrome: What is the compiler error?
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[03:11] tenshihan: if i leave it with out the flags, then it complains those flags are there
[03:11] tenshihan: otherwise, no error
[03:11] tenshihan: but node says
[03:11] tenshihan: Error: Unable to load shared library /root/cpp_node_extension/out/Release/extension.node
[03:11] TooTallNate: tenshihan: check the arch of the .node file and node
[03:11] TooTallNate: tenshihan: also, update to v0.2.0 :)
[03:12] TooTallNate: i've been slaving away on it all day
[03:12] tenshihan: update what to v0.2?
[03:12] tenshihan: oh
[03:12] tenshihan: gyp
[03:12] TooTallNate: `file ./out/Release/bindings.gyp`
[03:12] TooTallNate: tenshihan: ya, `npm install -g node-gyp`
[03:12] TooTallNate: `file node`
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[03:12] TooTallNate: more than 50% of the time that error is an arch mismatch
[03:13] TooTallNate: but if you're using node-gyp that shouldn't happen :p
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[03:13] TooTallNate: tenshihan: idk to be honest if those flags would yeild an usuable module
[03:13] TooTallNate: i know that enabling exceptions is alright
[03:14] TooTallNate: and i know that another person needed -fno-rtti
[03:14] TooTallNate: but i've never tried them together
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[03:15] tenshihan_: client crashed
[03:15] tenshihan_: i get this now with configure
[03:15] tenshihan_: http://pastebin.com/eG1Eg5AL
[03:16] TooTallNate: damn
[03:16] TooTallNate: delete the Makefile.gyp file
[03:16] tenshihan_: not sure what you mean by check the arch. .. it should be the same since i did a simple hello world and it worked and compiled with node.
[03:17] TooTallNate: ya forget that
[03:18] TooTallNate: there's a patch coming soon that actually reports the dlerror()
[03:18] tenshihan_: http://pastebin.com/zCYr4TYp
[03:18] tenshihan_: dlerror?
[03:18] TooTallNate: instead of the non-descriptive "Unable to load shared libarary"
[03:19] TooTallNate: do you have two gyp files?
[03:19] tenshihan_: oh that's be awesome
[03:19] tenshihan_: yes
[03:19] tenshihan_: now i do
[03:19] tenshihan_: which should it be now, i remember you said you were altering that
[03:20] TooTallNate: just have one
[03:20] TooTallNate: but you can name it anything now
[03:20] tenshihan_: works
[03:20] TooTallNate: hello.gyp is fine
[03:21] tenshihan_: still getting dlerror though. crap
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[03:21] tenshihan_: you know of any problems with boost and node?
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[03:21] TooTallNate: hmmm
[03:21] TooTallNate: i haven't heard of anyone doing it actually
[03:22] tenshihan_: and this isn't the culprit? 'cflags_cc!': [ '-fno-exceptions','-fno-rtti' ]
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[03:22] TooTallNate: it may be
[03:22] tenshihan_: poop
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[03:22] TooTallNate: you gotta try eliminating possibilities
[03:23] TooTallNate: if you want to be daring
[03:23] TooTallNate: try this guy's branch: https://github.com/shigeki/node/compare/shigeki_20120224
[03:25] tenshihan_: https://svn.boost.org/trac/boost/ticket/2094
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[03:26] tenshihan_: looks like someone patched boost to avoid this particular situation
[03:26] tenshihan_: i just wish i was better with patch
[03:31] shlevy: Hi. I have an app that works fine on OSX but when I run it on windows only the first request gets responded to
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[03:54] abhatnag: is this an appropriate place to ask for jade help?
[03:54] alejandromg: abhatnag: just ask...
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[03:57] abhatnag: I have an express setup with jade, but can't get jade to "parse" my jquery based ajax, even though the console shows XHR objects are being passed: http://fpaste.org/zm4a/
[03:57] abhatnag: anyone have any luck with this?
[03:59] abhatnag: upon clicking the button in line 17, console shows a 200 message; but neither lines 23, 29 or 31 show a result.
[03:59] shlevy: Anyone had any problems with an app working on OSX but not Windows?
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[04:00] alejandromg: abhatnag: maybe not releated with your problem, but since you are defining a layout, you don't need to add  and extra html tag at index.jade
[04:00] alejandromg: abhatnag: the same with the head tag
[04:01] alejandromg: and body
[04:01] rlidwka: shlevy: looks like nobody here use windows :)
[04:02] abhatnag: alejandromg: ah true enough, thanks
[04:02] abhatnag: shlevy: are there any specific console errors you see in windows?
[04:03] alejandromg: abhatnag: also, maybe the call to /api/soc, is timing out, add a log for it (on server.js) and see if the call is working 
[04:03] shlevy: abhatnag: Nope. No errors or anything, just nothing is sent from the server after the first non-static request
[04:04] shlevy: abhatnag: I'm using Server-Sent Events, so I have requests with socket timeout set to Infinity, but it works just as expected on OSX
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[04:04] abhatnag: alejandromg: hmm, perhaps, but the alert in line 23 should still work, right? also 'web console' in JS shows the message content that is going through, and it seems to be ok
[04:05] abhatnag: shlevy: sorry, confused: so your frontend is not working in Win? the server is on a separate machine here?
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[04:06] shlevy: When the server is on OSX, it works. When the server is on Windows, it doesn't, regardless of whether the client is the same machine
[04:06] alejandromg: abhatnag: maybe a res.end() missing?, Oh yeah it should
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[04:07] alejandromg: abhatnag: what about putting the create.js inside of $(document).ready(function(){ .....});?
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[04:08] abhatnag: alejandromg: I think the res.end() is in place; the same setup works without jade, in normal html. I have a feeling the problem is with jQuery's methods acting on jade...somehow, if that makes sense
[04:09] abhatnag: shlevy: not sure, are you sure your versions of node etc are exactly the same on both OSes. Also when you run a server instance on Windows, the console shows nothing? and does the frontend return a message?
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[04:09] alejandromg: abhatnag: I don't think so, since the render action happen before requiring the create.js file (which is required when the page start to load in browser
[04:09] tmcw: Does anyone have experience using dtrace or oprofile with node?
[04:09] shlevy: abhatnag: Everything's the same. Frontend doesn't return a message, just keeps trying to load. The console log shows the same in both versions.
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[04:11] abhatnag: shlevy: I had a "constant load" thing once. I tried throwing an axaj message to the server and was returned a 500. You could try the same. If you also get back a 500, then at least you know what type of a problem you have.
[04:11] abhatnag: alejandromg: ah, I think I'm confused about the whole thing, let me inspect my code a bit more
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[04:14] shlevy: Hmm, figured it out. Setting the socket timeout to Infinity explicitly was causing the problem, seems like that might even be a v8 issue
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[04:29] hermanjunge: Regular Expression question:
[04:29] hermanjunge: Does somebody know how to extract a parameter from an url?
[04:29] hermanjunge: http://www.mysite.com/path/to?param=2&other_param=5
[04:29] tenshihan_:  /key=([^&]+)/
[04:29] hermanjunge: returns 5?
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[04:30] tenshihan_:  /other_param=([^&]+)/
[04:30] hermanjunge: :D
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[04:31] hermanjunge: Thanks tenshinhan_
[04:31] hermanjunge: that third eye works fine!
[04:33] markq: what's the difference between socket.io-node and socket.io?
[04:34] rlidwka: tenshihan_: it would match "another_param=6&other_param=5" just fine :)
[04:35] rlidwka: markq: where did you find socket.io-node?
[04:37] markq: oh wait nvm. that used to be the old name I guess.
[04:37] markq: was reading an old article on how to node
[04:37] rlidwka: yep
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[04:43] wizard_2: Hi, are there any good examples of implementing readable and writable streams?
[04:44] monokrome: readable and writable?
[04:44] tenshihan_: rlidwka: just curious, why not use req.query.another_param ?
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[04:46] rlidwka: tenshihan_: ask hermanjunge... probably because not everyone use express :)
[04:47] hermanjunge: ha ha ha
[04:47] hermanjunge: exacty
[04:47] hermanjunge: you don't need express to everything
[04:48] tmike: I'm building a pastebin/sprunge.us clone that uses express and couchdb
[04:48] wizard_2: monokrome: yea - I actually just want to implement a filter stream, to transform data on it's way though, it looks like I need to impliment write() and emit data
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[04:48] tmike: I think it's pretty neat, and probably pretty useful.  Anyone interested in taking a look at it?
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[04:49] tmike: sprunge, by the way, is a pastebin that uses cat | curl -F as its primary mode of sending data to it
[04:49] tmike: instead of actually pasting into a form
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[04:51] tmike: anyway, github's here: http://github.com/totallymike/pastebin_clone
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[04:51] tmike: All you need is a pastebin db somewhere, expressjs and Alex Gorbatchev's JS syntax highlighter, most of which is included.
[04:52] tmike: that is, a couchdb database called pastebin
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[04:55] tmike: felixge are you up early or late?
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[04:58] alexmcpherson: anyone take a look at towerjs yet?
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[04:58] justicefries: yes
[04:58] justicefries: ohai alexmcpherson
[04:58] alexmcpherson: Oh hai Gerred
[04:58] justicefries: how are you?
[04:58] alexmcpherson: Whaddya make of it?
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[04:58] justicefries: a todo list, duh.
[04:58] alexmcpherson: Installing it now
[04:59] alexmcpherson: No no, not with it, OF it. Cool?
[04:59] justicefries: Oh, it's alright except MongoDB.
[04:59] justicefries: also, I think it's "comfortable".
[04:59] justicefries: but missingthepoint.txt
[05:01] alexmcpherson: People'll write adapters maybe :-/
[05:02] justicefries: yeah
[05:02] justicefries: I wonder if Tower.Model will need to be extended when it attempts the connection.
[05:02] justicefries: and if it's using an AST or just "hai node-mongodb-native"
[05:03] justicefries: that sort of stuff I didn't check out.
[05:03] justicefries: and tower 2.0 we'll probably have mountables. ;) mount express on tower...now I'm just being railsy.
[05:03] bingomanatee: Hi there ! bingo manatee 
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[05:04] justicefries: I don't know, I can give you my opinion on ORMs in general at the hackfest.
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[05:05] alexmcpherson: Oh yeah, there is one this week. Forgot.
[05:05] alexmcpherson: I'll stay for the beers :)
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[05:08] isaacs[away]: hermanjunge: require("url").parse("http://www.mysite.com/path/to?param=2&other_param=5", true).query.other_param === 5
[05:08] hermanjunge: easier than with regex
[05:08] hermanjunge: thx isaacs
[05:09] justicefries: alexmcpherson: one thing is the general rejection of mega-things like Rails, and a lot of backlash recently.
[05:09] tmike: So can you use npm to install from a folder and have it install the dependencies too?
[05:09] isaacs[away]: hermanjunge: the second arg to url.parse tells it whether to parse the query string, too
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[05:09] justicefries: alexmcpherson: I think towerjs goes a little bit against what people coming TO node from the usual suspects are attracted to.
[05:09] justicefries: alexmcpherson: and so seeing tower is again, missingthepoint.jpg
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[05:10] tmike: I'm trying to test the bin directive of my package.json and it's not pulling express or jade into my ~/node_modules
[05:10] hermanjunge: tmike: check package.json if carries express or jade
[05:10] hermanjunge: or do npm install express
[05:10] hermanjunge: sometimes you need to sudo
[05:10] tmike: It does.  It has "express": "2.5.8"
[05:11] hermanjunge: npm install -f ?
[05:11] hermanjunge: npm install -f
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[05:11] hermanjunge: sudo chown <your-user> ~/.npm
[05:11] tmike: -f still didn't pull the dependencies
[05:11] hermanjunge: it has happened to me
[05:11] isaacs: ~/.npm is not where npm installs stuff.  it's a cache folder
[05:11] Eruadan: hi, I would like to know how could i use now.js with knockout.js . Do you know any info about these 2 playing togheter?
[05:11] isaacs: npm installs stuff into the local prefix dir
[05:12] isaacs: ./node_modules/
[05:12] hermanjunge: isaacs, I know
[05:12] hermanjunge: but sometimes I had problems with express
[05:12] hermanjunge: and solved that way
[05:12] tmike: I've seen it too, where a broken permission in ~/.npm breaks npm install
[05:13] hermanjunge: then I learned to do chown -r <hermanjunge:staff> ~/.npm
[05:13] hermanjunge: and everything went fine
[05:13] isaacs: can you reproduce a case where npm cache is owned by a user other than you?
[05:14] isaacs: even when using sudo, this should behave properly
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[05:16] tmike: isaacs: in your home directory, run 'sudo npm install express' and then 'rm -rf ~/.npm/express'
[05:16] tmike: first clear express from the cache
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[05:16] ningu: hrm... is it possible to use jade and stylus with a regular web server to serve static pages?
[05:17] isaacs: hm.  indeed, that is a bug.
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[05:17] isaacs: tmike: care to post it?
[05:18] tmike: sure
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[05:18] tmike: There may be more creative ways to break premissions for it, but that was just my first attempt
[05:18] tmike: should that go to your npm repo or to express?
[05:18] isaacs: tmike: npm
[05:19] tmike: thanks
[05:19] isaacs: thank you
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[05:21] dwhite: i have node.js=0.6.11, express=2.5.8, connect=1.8.5 installed. when running the express examples from "node tuts", i'm getting this error: http://pastebin.com/NBvx7NQ9
[05:21] dwhite: anyone know if this is a problem with my install? or are the tutorials out of date?
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[05:23] alejandromg: dwhite: the staticProvider I think it's outdated
[05:24] dwhite: alejandromg, ty. is that part of the connect api?
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[05:24] alejandromg: dwhite: yeah! If I'm not wrong the staticProvider should be only expres.static(__dirname+'/public')
[05:25] tmike: isaacs https://github.com/isaacs/npm/issues/2208
[05:25] tmike: I hope that's informative enough.
[05:25] isaacs: great
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[05:25] tmike: All right.  I'm off to bed.  I'll play with my dependency issues tomorrow.
[05:26] cliffano: isaacs: is there a standard changelog format? it would be awesome if npmjs.org can display the changelog associated to each version of the module
[05:26] dwhite: alejandromg, you are not mistaken. Thanks!
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[05:26] tmike: again, I'd love feedback on my pastebin clone thing, http://github.com/totallymike/pastebin_clone (name most certainly subject to change)
[05:27] alejandromg: dwhite: np :)
[05:27] tmike: you'll have to install express and jade manually until I figure out the dependency issue, but it works pretty handily
[05:27] AI42: <tjholowaychuk> sory i'm fail
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[05:29] tmike: oh and felix-couchdb
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[05:31] isaacs: tmike: what's interesting is that it *doesn't* set the permissions incorrectly in the ./node_modules folder.
[05:31] isaacs: tmike: in that case, it ends up still owned by the proper user
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[05:33] garrensmith: morning
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[05:38] alejandromg: tmike: you should add a live example :P (about Pastebine clone)
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[05:43] Sensible: The node.js idiots were all using Macs. The “Rails Advocate” from my old job had a Mac. I’m starting to be pretty convinced that if you’re a computer programmer and own a Mac, you’re probably clueless.
[05:43] Sensible: That should be Apple’s slogan “A computer so easy to use, that even an evil person can use it.”
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[05:46] jesusabdullah: not true
[05:46] jesusabdullah: I mean
[05:46] jesusabdullah: sure there are idiots using macs
[05:46] jesusabdullah: but there are also idiots using windows
[05:47] jesusabdullah: linux has enough gotchas that it keeps some dumb people out, but they're still around
[05:48] jesusabdullah: I think maybe it feels that way with macs because it's a good development platform that doesn't have the same learning curve as linux
[05:48] jesusabdullah: and by "good" I mean that non-VS development works well
[05:48] Sensible: If I need information on Perl, C#/ASP.NET, php, or Java, there are plenty of online resources. For Node.js, there's practically nothing. If node is so awesome, then why isn't there any documentation?
[05:48] jesusabdullah: That, and apple's marketing seems to attract bros
[05:49] Sensible: yeah
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[05:49] jesusabdullah: Sensible: http://nodejs.org/docs/latest/api/all.html
[05:49] jesusabdullah: Sensible: http://docs.jit.su
[05:49] jesusabdullah: Sensible: http://nodetuts.com
[05:49] jesusabdullah: qed
[05:49] Sensible: But why a single-core language in the world of multicore CPUs?
[05:49] Sensible: thnx
[05:50] jesusabdullah: Because the cpu is often not your bottleneck, and there are many strategies for scaling across cores that don't involve threads (processes for example)
[05:50] justicefries: wait.
[05:50] justicefries: Sensible, I don't mean to jump you here, but I'm going to.
[05:50] jesusabdullah: Also, a language isn't single-core, a runtime is
[05:51] jesusabdullah: and for that matter, there are in fact threads in node, just not in the main js runtime
[05:51] Sensible: justicefries: I’m a huge bargain for my market value. I’m at the top end of the ability scale, with productivity 10x or 100x higher than most. Most people would rather have someone clueless that they could push around. Idiots actually select against highly skilled people, because they had bad experiences working with intelligent people in the past, when intelligent people questioned their stupid ideas.
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[05:51] justicefries: oh, phew, you're a troll.
[05:51] justicefries: I feel better.
[05:51] jesusabdullah: I coulda told you that justicefries!
[05:51] Sensible: justicefries: k
[05:51] jesusabdullah: I'm just humoring while my amusement factor is high
[05:52] Sensible: 
ACTION is a Scala programmer.

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[05:52] subbyyy: jesus you have quite the patience
[05:52] jesusabdullah: sometimes
[05:52] subbyyy: forgive thee
[05:52] jesusabdullah: hehe
[05:52] justicefries: also, Sensible, if you're being serious, I will concede that if you're using a Mac and trying to do any sort of dependency management, you enjoy pain.
[05:53] jesusabdullah: unless you're using npm.
[05:53] jesusabdullah: Then it's unicorns and rainbows.
[05:53] justicefries: ignoring npm, I'm talking more apt versus homebrew.
[05:53] jesusabdullah: I hear brew's alright (usually)
[05:53] justicefries: npm is good. :D
[05:53] Sensible: He had the “abused productive” personality type and should have known better than to be fooled by hype.  However, the psychopath-in-training “idea guy” may have emotionally bullied him into using node.js.  It’s extremely pathetic that someone with an MIT CS PhD doesn’t actually write code, because it’s “beneath him”.
[05:53] justicefries: homebrew is under this crazy impression you need to compile everything.
[05:53] jesusabdullah: who's "he" ?
[05:53] Sensible: justicefries: Xcode drives me insane.
[05:54] ningu: justicefries: there has never been a good binary distro for os x. I have no idea why.
[05:54] ningu: homebrew is actually quite good compared to fink and macports imo
[05:54] justicefries: ningu: it is. I'm ditching my MBP this week, precisely just to be closer to what I actually deploy onto.
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[05:54] Sensible: One co-founder had a Harvard MBA, which translates into English as “I’m a retard.”  However, he was intelligent and had the “abused productive” personality type.  Actually, that’s a bad sign.  If the non-technical cofounders have the “abused productive” personality type, then they almost definitely hired parasites and psychopaths to implement the website for them.
[05:54] jesusabdullah: a co-founder of what?
[05:55] justicefries: ningu: homebrew is nice to use comparatively.
[05:55] Sensible: jesusabdullah: This node.js start-up I interviewed at today.
[05:55] hermanjunge: WHAT?
[05:55] hermanjunge: Who is the devil here?
[05:55] hermanjunge: (I've just catched up)
[05:55] justicefries: ningu: I've just had enough of fighting and I'm not rabid enough about my OS to want to fight it anymore. :/
[05:55] Sensible: hermanjunge: Stupid people are evil.
[05:55] ningu: justicefries: I don't blame you. it depends what packages you need to work with.
[05:55] jesusabdullah: I think a Harvard MBA is less an indicator of stupidity and more an indicator of having perceived privelege
[05:55] ningu: but linux distros have much better package management
[05:56] justicefries: ningu: I also understand the problem. nobody wants to build and maintain binary packages, because you COULD do it with homebrew, technically, it's just not how it's done.
[05:56] justicefries: yeah
[05:56] jesusabdullah: That is, a degree from Harvard isn't actually worth much more than any other degree, if at all, but people *think* it does---ESPECIALLY the people that have them
[05:56] Sensible: jesusabdullah: right
[05:57] hermanjunge: At least is a HArvard MBA
[05:57] jesusabdullah: as far as MBAs go, it *really* depends. Like, I could get an MBA right now and my background's in engineering. If someone with a business degree got an MBA, even though we'd both have MBAs their attitudes and style would be vastly different
[05:57] hermanjunge: The top university is my country is ranked 200 something in the world
[05:57] jesusabdullah: from the hypothetical "jesusabdullah with an MBA"
[05:57] hermanjunge: and their graduates see themselves as top notch people
[05:57] hermanjunge: jesusabdullah you have an M.S.
[05:57] hermanjunge: LOL
[05:58] jesusabdullah: I think an MBA should be seen more like an uber-minor than like a degree in and of itself
[05:58] justicefries: okay, Sensible, you actually seem like a rational human being and not a troll, so I'm going to take you seriously.
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[05:58] jesusabdullah: Just a pissy human being
[05:58] Sensible: justicefries: thanks
[05:58] hermanjunge: With a fancy title thesis
[05:58] jesusabdullah: that wishes scala had libuv bindings ;)
[05:58] justicefries: that said, you just compared languages that have had 15+ years of development efforts put into them.
[05:58] justicefries: versus one that is barely a fifth of that old.
[05:58] justicefries: and all its time is going into development.
[05:58] jesusabdullah: bind libuv to ALL the things!
[05:58] justicefries: I wouldn't consider available docs out there a valid comparison for awesomeness.
[05:58] Sensible: justicefries: Just angry at abused productives right now.
[05:58] justicefries: fair.
[05:59] jesusabdullah: Sensible: So, this douchebag with an MBA is like, "node.js is a buzzword we're using that" and the other co-founder's like, "I'm a pussy so I'm gonna roll with it" ?
[05:59] justicefries: Sensible: I think node.js is a tool, I met a guy using node.js and was learning it because it's the rage. using something like that 'just because' is not the right conclusion.
[05:59] jesusabdullah: I mean, node.js is a great fit for a lot of problems, but you shouldn't pick it for the buzzwords.
[05:59] justicefries: so, I think you ran into idiots.
[06:00] jesusabdullah: I agree.
[06:00] justicefries: ie you may want to use netty over node.
[06:00] justicefries: depending.
[06:00] jesusabdullah: I'm glad we could have this talk.
[06:00] jesusabdullah: Sensible: Tell me about scala.
[06:00] justicefries: also, <3 clojure, so.
[06:00] jesusabdullah: (someday I'm going to learn me some clojure, maybe)
[06:01] jesusabdullah: justicefries: So, do you know what the cool java libraries are?
[06:01] justicefries: I think it makes me a rich hickey apologist.
[06:01] jesusabdullah: cause, like, honestly, that's my barometer for "what I want to work with"
[06:01] jesusabdullah: is the number of neat libraries that let me do cool things
[06:01] Sensible: jesusabdullah: If you have the intelligent personality type, you love Scala (if you've tried it). If you have the parasitic personality type, you hate Scala.
[06:01] jesusabdullah: or, at least, the potential for cool things
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[06:01] jesusabdullah: I'm not sure intelligence is a personality type? XD
[06:01] justicefries: Java has a huge number of libraries all across the board, you can do some super cool stuff.
[06:02] justicefries: StanfordNLP, for example, is something just nonexistent in Node.
[06:02] jesusabdullah: NLP you say?
[06:02] justicefries: clojure + natural language processing, it's pretty natural given a LISP and NLP.
[06:02] jesusabdullah: THIS INTERESTS ME
[06:02] justicefries: versus Java, where it's not AS natural.
[06:02] justicefries: you can build a DSL around that NLP.
[06:02] jesusabdullah: Interesting
[06:02] jesusabdullah: I'm always kinda amazed when I hear you can use clojure with a java library and not have it feel funky/hackneyed
[06:02] justicefries: I want to actually build a full DSL for NLP libraries, where you can drop any of the main ones in.
[06:02] justicefries: yeah.
[06:02] justicefries: it's natural.
[06:03] justicefries: it's very first class, compared to Scala (from what I hear about Scala)
[06:03] jesusabdullah: Do you know of any good math libraries for java?
[06:03] justicefries: Math. :)
[06:03] jesusabdullah: Before I did node I did a lot of numpy/scipy stuff
[06:03] justicefries: oh.
[06:03] jesusabdullah: by "math" I mean matrices
[06:03] jesusabdullah: algorithms
[06:04] justicefries: yeah
[06:04] justicefries: <3 numpy/scipy, but..
[06:04] purr: Let it be known that justicefries hearts numpy/scipy, but...
[06:04] jesusabdullah: I mean, that's not my definition of "awesome" obviously
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[06:04] justicefries: matlib
[06:04] justicefries: which is obviously what SciPy sits on top of as well
[06:04] Sensible: Folks, never point out a project in the process of disaster.
[06:04] jesusabdullah: matlib?
[06:04] jesusabdullah: my googling turns up matlab
[06:05] Sensible: I got fired! I was slightly worried, because I could tell the new boss was trash-talking me behind my back. Still, I couldn't believe they were that stupid! I was the only one getting any work done! I was doing bugfixes in their old Java system, while the Rails people were spinning their wheels and wasting time.
[06:05] jesusabdullah: and to my knowledge numpy uses lapack and blas
[06:05] Sensible:  I assumed that would continue for a few more months, until they realized the Rails project was a disaster (or I found a new job).
[06:05] justicefries: mm blas.
[06:05] jesusabdullah: Sensible: sounds frustrating
[06:05] justicefries: OH.
[06:05] justicefries: numpy/matlib.py
[06:05] justicefries: http://sourceforge.net/projects/matlib/
[06:06] justicefries: er, that's C.
[06:06] Sensible: After I left, two of the marketing owners came out to say goodbye. They asked me what went wrong. They did seem genuinely concerned that their $500M business opportunity is being flushed down the toilet. I told them to give me a call if they're ever serious about running a software company.
[06:06] justicefries: http://acs.lbl.gov/software/colt/
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[06:06] jesusabdullah: now we're talkin'
[06:06] justicefries: also http://math.nist.gov/javanumerics/
[06:06] justicefries: has a whole bunch of resources.
[06:07] jesusabdullah: woot woot
[06:07] jesusabdullah: so, Sensible, tell me about some cool scala libraries
[06:07] Sensible: In the financial industry, the vast majority of managers are faking it. The CEOs are definitely faking it, and the fakers follow on down the hierarchy. Someone who's faking it will almost never hire someone who really knows what he's doing.
[06:07] justicefries: OpenNLP and StanfordNLP
[06:07] jesusabdullah: also, what do you do when you're not getting unappreciated for holding up half the company? ;)
[06:07] Sensible: jesusabdullah: I love Liftweb.
[06:08] jesusabdullah: "ubiquitous chat app"
[06:08] jesusabdullah: good sign
[06:08] jesusabdullah: You will find that this is the "hello world" of node.js as well ;)
[06:08] itayneeman: jesusabdullah: in lift's defense, they had it before node.js existed, I believe :)
[06:08] justicefries: actually jesusabdullah I wanted to talk to you about that.
[06:09] justicefries: now.js is used in some examples.
[06:09] jesusabdullah: itayneeman: Definitely not implying they "totally ripped us off maaan"
[06:09] jesusabdullah: itayneeman: More like, "Hey we like the same things"
[06:09] itayneeman: jesusabdullah: yeah, i know. It's actually funny how long this has been used as the example :)
[06:09] Sensible: jesusabdullah: Hello world is a bad sign. :(
[06:09] itayneeman: "the example" more like it :)
[06:09] jesusabdullah: note the quotes
[06:09] jesusabdullah: -heh- that rhymes
[06:10] itayneeman: :)
[06:10] justicefries: and I was thinking about a pretty common pattern for desktop/mobile apps - event emitters. It seems like it'd be a pretty sane approach to have a client/server emitter object that both sides can bind and send events on.
[06:10] justicefries: with data on those events.
[06:10] justicefries: and I don't know of anything like it at the moment.
[06:10] jesusabdullah: ooh buy classical inheritance
[06:10] jesusabdullah: boy*
[06:10] Sensible: As an abused productive worker, the only possible sexual partners are abusive parasites.
[06:10] jesusabdullah: I guess it was inevitable
[06:10] abraxas: can i get some advice from an experienced c++ addon developer by any chance? :)
[06:11] jesusabdullah: any c++ side peeps in the house?
[06:11] abraxas: lol
[06:11] justicefries: I can talk about C++ but not as it relates to addons. :)
[06:11] abraxas: you too?
[06:11] jesusabdullah: hah
[06:11] abraxas: heh
[06:11] jesusabdullah: abraxas: That was mostly me signalling that when it comes to writing binary addons I'm clueless
[06:12] jesusabdullah: abraxas: one thing about node that's kinda lame right now is that the c++ side of things is woefully underdocumented
[06:12] abraxas: right, i'm just starting, but i need some serious advice regarding libuv
[06:12] abraxas: yeah, exactly
[06:12] ningu: I still want to know why it's called libuv
[06:12] jesusabdullah: abraxas: "Documentation: See lib/uv.h" "Did you just tell me to fuck myself?"
[06:12] abraxas: jesusabdullah: i believe so ;)
[06:12] jesusabdullah: ningu: I thin kit's a play on libev
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[06:12] jesusabdullah: ningu: the 'u' is for "universal"
[06:12] ningu: ahh
[06:12] abraxas: would make sense
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[06:13] justicefries:  I'll just leave this here:
[06:13] justicefries: https://twitter.com/justicefries/status/174370587504943106
[06:13] jesusabdullah: I almost feel bad for ocaml
[06:14] jesusabdullah: like, it's a functional language that's actually proven itself
[06:14] jesusabdullah: like, fftw and unison are written in ocaml
[06:14] justicefries: fftw is!?
[06:14] jesusabdullah: hell yeah
[06:15] jesusabdullah: last I checked anyway
[06:15] jesusabdullah: feel free to look it up and yell at me if I'm full of shit
[06:15] justicefries: I thought it was C.
[06:15] justicefries: we're talking about the fourier transform library right?
[06:15] abraxas: jesusabdullah: i'm trying to wrap a library that relies heavily on sockets and its events... i'm having a lot of trouble integrating that with libuv, which with its streams follows a different flow than that library i'm using
[06:15] jesusabdullah: http://www.fftw.org/faq/section2.html#languages
[06:16] justicefries: oh, damn.
[06:16] abraxas: jesusabdullah: add to that, that i'm pretty green with libuv and you have a painful situation :/ grmbl
[06:16] justicefries: well, OKAY then.
[06:16] jesusabdullah: So, you could say I was wrong because, well, you use the C code but it's *generated* with ocaml
[06:16] justicefries: that's good enough. :)
[06:16] jesusabdullah: abraxas: I've heard that the code's actually pretty well laid out if you don't mind reading source code for a while
[06:17] jesusabdullah: Like, even though the "documentation" is kind of a "fuck you" I hear it's actually not that bad
[06:17] abraxas: jesusabdullah: it is, it just follows a flow that kinda conflicts with what i have to implement 
[06:17] jesusabdullah: y'know, if you're comfortable with c++
[06:17] jesusabdullah: oh, yeah, that happens
[06:17] jesusabdullah: I'd help you if I could but unfortunately I'm a c++ noob
[06:17] abraxas: jesusabdullah: it's an api problem more than a language problem
[06:17] justicefries: note: c++ sucks, use c.
[06:17] abraxas: jesusabdullah: (but the language doesn't help)
[06:18] abraxas: libuv is c btw, not c++
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[06:22] jesusabdullah: right, it's v8 that's c++
[06:23] abraxas: yup
[06:23] bvmount: abraxas: far from expert myself but have you seen this: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/issues/265 
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[06:32] abraxas: bvmount: thanks, having a look...
[06:33] abraxas: bvmount: sounds like exactly what i need! thanks
[06:33] bvmount: abraxas: I just mention because I tried to use libuv once with a more select mindset and its much more sophisticated that that
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[06:33] abraxas: bvmount: yeah exactly, i don't need buffer queues and read callbacks
[06:33] bvmount: abraxas: saghul's work is good, I've been following it, this patch is what you might end up with:https://github.com/saghul/libuv/commit/fa8aae4bad89fad40ff4718f8fc7211c946db749
[06:34] bvmount: abraxas: right
[06:34] abraxas: bvmount: beautiful man
[06:35] abraxas: very recent stuff, ww
[06:35] abraxas: wow
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[06:35] abraxas: bvmount: thanks for the info, this is what i've been looking for
[06:35] bvmount: abraxas: my pleasure
[06:35] Qalqi: this might sound naive but will node be able to replace php or other big shots?
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[06:36] abraxas: meeting now, but would've loved to chat a bit more.. maybe next time
[06:36] bvmount: abraxas: to a productive day ;)
[06:37] jesusabdullah: C:
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[06:52] Qalqi: nyone even ther?
[06:52] dlg: nope
[06:53] Qalqi: is node good for social networks ?
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[06:54] Qalqi: i feel it must be very productive
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[06:54] jesusabdullah: What do you mean?
[06:54] jesusabdullah: "social networks" is such a broad term
[06:55] jesusabdullah: there are social networks built on every tech you can think of
[06:55] Qalqi: for example take fb
[06:55] SubStack: node is like a social network for network services
[06:56] Qalqi: wat?
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[07:02] ningu: is there a good way of mounting node apps non-root on a site without rewriting the app?
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[07:10] jesusabdullah: What do you mean?
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[07:16] strager: ningu: Proxy.  If you're using Express, you can mount apps pretty easily.  See the Express site or google for Express app mounting.
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[07:43] zackattack: anyone have experience with this awfulness?
[07:43] zackattack: Error: Unable to load shared library node_modules/geoip/build/Release/geoip.node
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[07:52] TheEmpath: how would i have node.js run in an mlockall(2) state?
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[08:02] zackattack: SubStack:  im having trouble installing dnode
[08:02] zackattack: npm ERR! couldn't unpack /tmp/npm-1330415768536/1330415768536-0.8248302203137428/tmp.tgz to /tmp/npm-1330415768536/1330415768536-0.8248302203137428
[08:02] zackattack: npm ERR! error installing dnode@0.9.6
[08:02] zackattack: ill build from source i guess
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[08:05] SubStack: zackattack: I just installed it fine into a scratch directory
[08:05] SubStack: perhaps `npm cache clean` will fix it?
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[08:06] zackattack: wow, that totally fixed things.
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[08:08] zackattack: thanks
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[08:29] [AD]Turbo: hi there
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[08:37] margle: Hi Turbo!
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[09:03] HardFu: anyone played with tower.js
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[09:03] HardFu: looks promising
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[09:03] superjoe: saw it on hacker news today, looks awesome
[09:04] superjoe: I like how the web page has less talk, more rock. (just a bunch of code examples with minimal captions)
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[09:06] `3rdEden: felixge: is the ActiveX blockage also reproducible with Blue Coat's k9 product or only with the enterprice proxy
[09:06] SubStack: haha enterprice
[09:06] felixge: `3rdEden: afaik only the proxy and the setting for it can be disabled
[09:07] felixge: `3rdEden: but I would need to ask, I'm not in that network myself.
[09:07] felixge: `3rdEden: Just helping a client
[09:07] felixge: `3rdEden: I am putting the obfuscator into its own module now
[09:07] HardFu: superjoe: yeah, I found it through HN as well
[09:07] `3rdEden: felixge I saw that
[09:07] HardFu: looks nice, organized
[09:07] HardFu: and has express and connect underneath
[09:07] HardFu: so one more +
[09:08] `3rdEden: felixge I thought Id ask you as I just noticed they have a "home" edition as well
[09:09] nayger: does anyone here use a browser-based editor exclusively?
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[09:09] felixge: `3rdEden: I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if more proxies / firewalls do stupid things like that
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[09:10] `3rdEden: felixge: yup proxies do silly stuff
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[09:13] rknLA: is there a node.js equivalent of guard?
[09:14] HardFu: nayger: I doubt
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[09:37] goloroden: regarding to connect middleware, what is the difference between next(err); and throw err; ? Both activate the next error handler and skip all other modules, as it seems. So when do you use what?
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[09:38] chjj: goloroden: you cant do a `throw err;` in a callback of something async
[09:38] chjj: it becomes uncatchable
[09:38] chjj: connect wont be able to catch it and call `next(err)`
[09:38] goloroden: chjj: Oh yes of course, thanks a lot :-)!
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[09:39] chjj: this may change once domains go in
[09:39] whatthefunk: is it possible to use the jsapi library in making a node c-extension?
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[09:40] chjj: whatthefunk: hmm?
[09:40] chjj: whatthefunk: you can technically link to any library with a c++ module for node, but i dont understand the part about jsapi
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[09:41] whatthefunk: I was thinking about the threading stuff in the runtime
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[09:41] superjoe: does anyone have a good example node package for deploying a server app?
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[09:48] senorpedro: hi 
[09:49] superjoe: hi
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[10:15] yawNO: hi o/
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[10:18] felixge: `3rdEden: Pushed a new patch: https://github.com/LearnBoost/socket.io-client/pull/392#issuecomment-4212946
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[10:22] `3rdEden: felixge I saw
[10:22] `3rdEden: felixge rauchg does all the pulling ;)
[10:22] `3rdEden: but gj on the patch :)
[10:22] felixge: `3rdEden: ok, no worries, it can wait : )
[10:22] rauchg: hi
[10:22] rauchg: morning
[10:23] felixge: `3rdEden: just wanted to see if you like it as I usually only catch rauch in the evenings when there is not much time left for changes
[10:23] felixge: rauchg: hey, you up late ; )
[10:23] rauchg: :D
[10:23] rauchg: 7:23 AM ART :P
[10:23] felixge: rauchg: huh? I thought you're in PST?
[10:24] CIA-102: node: 03koichik 07v0.6 * r7f93861 10/ test/simple/test-tls-over-http-tunnel.js : test: fix test-tls-over-http-tunnel with v0.7 - http://git.io/I4wpLw
[10:24] CIA-102: node: 03koichik 07v0.6 * re0ab4ec 10/ (lib/net.js test/simple/test-net-write-connect-write.js): 
[10:24] CIA-102: node: net: fix race write() before and after connect()
[10:24] CIA-102: node: Fixes #2827. - http://git.io/7y_a_w
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[10:24] felixge: `3rdEden: Ignore what I just said, apparently I have no idea where Guillermo lives :P
[10:24] `3rdEden: ;D
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[10:26] rauchg: felixge back in argentina haha
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[10:26] felixge: rauchg: cool, that makes it easier : )
[10:26] `3rdEden: :D
[10:26] `3rdEden: indeed
[10:27] felixge: 
ACTION off to lunch

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[10:28] rauchg: felixge!
[10:28] rauchg: <3 dedicated module!
[10:28] purr: Let it be known that rauchg hearts dedicated module!.
[10:28] rauchg: thanks purr 
[10:28] SubStack: 
ACTION hacks on some more clustery type things

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[10:30] CIA-102: node: 03koichik 07v0.6 * r6343179 10/ (lib/net.js test/simple/test-net-write-connect-write.js): 
[10:30] CIA-102: node: net: fix race write() before and after connect()
[10:30] CIA-102: node: Fixes #2827. - http://git.io/WL-fVQ
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[10:50] SeanBannister: Just testing out npm shrinkwrap and I think I've found a bug and was wondering if someone could confirm that I'm doing it right, if you specify a remote dependency in your package.json and shrinkwrap it and then try to install from the shrinkwrap it tries to download that module name from NPM because the shrinkwrap file doesn't include the remote dependency location.
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[10:53] thomaschaaf: hey I am looking for something that converts html to save parse html. So that <strong>a</strong> does nothing. I can't seem to find a library with the words I am looking for. Just php.js which seems a bit heavy
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[11:00] KiNgMaR: what's "save parse html"? you looking for &lt;strong&gt; etc?
[11:00] thomaschaaf: yep 
[11:00] littlejim84: I'm looking for a JS tempting language that I can use with Express on the backend and with Backbone on the frontend. Hogan.js looks good, are there any other recommendations?
[11:00] KiNgMaR: try "my <html>".replace(/&/g, '&amp;').replace(/"/g, '&quot;').replace(/</g, '&lt;').replace(/>/g, '&gt;') :P
[11:01] thomaschaaf: KiNgMaR: what would you google for? I was searching for "javascript escape html"
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[11:02] KiNgMaR: thomaschaaf: javascript html entities maybe... here's a related question on so: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1787322/htmlspecialchars-equivalent-in-javascript
[11:02] CIA-102: node: 03koichik 07master * rcd5d247 10/ (lib/net.js test/simple/test-net-write-connect-write.js): 
[11:02] CIA-102: node: net: fix race write() before and after connect()
[11:02] CIA-102: node: Fixes #2827. - http://git.io/ieWp9g
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[11:07] mmaaa: hi
[11:07] mmaaa: anyone from japan?
[11:10] superjoe: just deployed my first node package! https://github.com/superjoe30/groovebasin
[11:10] superjoe: that was a great experience
[11:10] superjoe: <3 npm
[11:10] purr: Let it be known that superjoe hearts npm.
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[11:20] yawNO: o/
[11:20] bvmount: superjoe: pretty badass. regarding /etc/mpd.conf, is there a less-permissiony directory that I could stash that in
[11:21] superjoe: bvmount, ~/.mpd/mpd.conf
[11:21] superjoe: then add an npm config option groovebasin:mpd_conf with the location
[11:22] bvmount: ok. killer ui
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[11:22] superjoe: thanks! you might especially enjoy the keyboard shortcuts
[11:22] superjoe: I don't use a mouse with it at all.
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[11:23] chjj: pfft, mpd. mpg123 for life
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[11:24] superjoe: chjj, pretty sure mpd has mpg123 as a dependency ;)
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[11:29] chjj: superjoe: thats because mpg123 is godly
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[11:42] jetienne: q. how is the installer from joyent ? clean ? can i remove node easily after ?
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[11:48] Doikor: jetienne: on windows?
[11:48] jetienne: Doikor: my bad. i was talking about macos snow
[11:49] Doikor: atleast on windows it turns up in programs list
[11:49] jetienne: Doikor: ok thanks
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[12:00] superjoe: bvmount, care to see a demo real quick? I have one up and running
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[12:03] superjoe: ah, I gotta sleep. night
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[12:10] darrenlooby: Has anyone here installed cloud9?
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[12:14] maritz: darrenlooby: yes
[12:14] maritz: i'd even guess multiple people have
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[12:15] darrenlooby: Cool, I'm just giving it ago
[12:15] darrenlooby: Was returning an error
[12:15] darrenlooby: Oh, there we go - still is
[12:15] darrenlooby: I'll pastebin it
[12:16] bvmount_ has joined the channel
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[12:16] darrenlooby: http://pastebin.com/bj3M45PS
[12:16] darrenlooby: Won't install
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[12:21] maritz: 0.5.1 is 7 months old
[12:22] maritz: darrenlooby: use master
[12:22] darrenlooby: I was doing it from npm
[12:22] maritz: btw: there's #cloud9ide for cloud9 questions :)
[12:22] darrenlooby: I'll head on over there :)
[12:23] darrenlooby: Cheers
[12:23] maritz: yeah, don't in this specific case. they're not updating the npm versions due to binary dependencies that cause npm to burst
[12:23] darrenlooby: Ahh ok
[12:23] darrenlooby: I'll have to try it the  hard way
[12:23] darrenlooby: :D
[12:23] darrenlooby: Thanks
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[12:24] maritz: git clone git://github.com/ajaxorg/cloud9.git && git submodule update --init
[12:24] maritz: not that hard.
[12:25] maritz: (ok, you have to use a 0.4.x version of node to run cloud9 afaik, which in some environments might be a little trickier...)
[12:25] maritz: oh wait, forgot a "cd cloud9" in between those 2 commands
[12:25] maritz: and the --recursive argument
[12:25] maritz: god damnit
[12:25] darrenlooby: lol
[12:26] darrenlooby: So, right. I need to down grade Node - and then do...
[12:26] darrenlooby: git clone git://github.com/ajaxorg/cloud9.git && cd cloud9 && git submodule update --init --recursive?
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[12:28] maritz: yeah
[12:29] maritz: but i'd suggest using nvm for the node management
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[12:32] darrenlooby: Oww.. I'll have to google that
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[13:03] Bonuspunk: after a installation of node 0.6.11 - should require('npm') work?
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[13:14] maritz: Bonuspunk: i think so
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[13:15] maritz: Bonuspunk: actually, no
[13:15] maritz: apparently
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[14:04] panosru: which module you use for interaction with mongodb ? I found several but I'm not sure which is the best way to go
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[14:07] garrettwilkin: I heard that felix is keeping an archive of the IRC chat
[14:07] garrettwilkin: anyone know where to find it?
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[14:07] DavidIAm: I'm trying to write a test for a module with a bunch of private methods.
[14:07] DavidIAm: for some reason I'm blocking on trying to figure out how my test script can access those functions.
[14:07] DavidIAm: am I missing something obvious?
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[14:09] unomi: garrettwilkin: stashed between his video of the 2nd gunman and alien DNA sequence dump
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[14:10] unomi: garrettwilkin: He came by all of those via google: http://nodejs.debuggable.com/
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[14:11] garrettwilkin: lol
[14:11] garrettwilkin: yea um
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[14:12] garrettwilkin: he should have a bunch of weird videos, right?
[14:12] unomi: Well, he likes to think so, personally I think they are a bit mainstream, but hey
[14:14] DavidIAm: Obviously I need to mock something in...
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[14:29] CIA-102: libuv: 03Ben Noordhuis 07master * rec0eff9 10/ (6 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[14:29] CIA-102: libuv: Revert b3e0ad4, 149d32c, e99fdf0 and ea9baef.
[14:29] CIA-102: libuv: Detaching doesn't work yet, the setsid() call fails and leaves the child process
[14:29] CIA-102: libuv: attached to the parent's session.
[14:29] CIA-102: libuv: Revert "test: Add test case for spawning detached child processes."
[14:29] CIA-102: libuv: Revert "win: Implement options.detached for uv_spawn() for Windows."
[14:29] CIA-102: libuv: Revert "unix: Implement options.detached for uv_spawn() for unix."
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[14:45] panosru: anyone could suggest me a mongodb module to use?
[14:46] panosru: I saw, mongodb driver, mongolian, mongoose etc but I'm not sure which is the best way to go
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[14:46] DavidIAm: I think we're using mongodb.
[14:47] DavidIAm: Yeah, thats the piece we're using here at Manta.
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[14:48] panosru: DavidIAm: thanks :) from what I see from nodejsmodules.org is what most people use so I'm gonna use it :)
[14:48] DavidIAm: sounds like a plan
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[15:05] heavyUser: hello, im having a little trouble with node
[15:05] heavyUser: it's the setTimeout function
[15:05] heavyUser: it returns an object instead of a numberic id
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[15:05] heavyUser: why is that?
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[15:06] heavyUser: i need to save that numeric id into a database for later possible cancellation, but how? i cant get it
[15:06] DavidIAm: that doesn't sound like a realistically serializable situation.
[15:07] heavyUser: nodes documentation is all about returning a numeric id
[15:07] DavidIAm: Perhaps storing a unique guid or such in the closure that is the function run by the timeout and checking for revocation in the database would be a more likely strategy to succeed in more cases?
[15:07] heavyUser: (like javascriptn on the browser does)
[15:08] heavyUser: i will consider that strategy, but im also pointing out, that the manual is therefor misleading
[15:09] DavidIAm: indeed.  The latest manual does not mention such a behavior.
[15:09] rummik: Interesting O.o
[15:09] DavidIAm: have you done an inspect of this object?
[15:09] jdeibele has joined the channel
[15:09] heavyUser: yes
[15:09] rummik: I just did
[15:10] heavyUser: no numeric id there
[15:10] jerrysv has joined the channel
[15:10] heavyUser: any more thoughts on this will be appreciated
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[15:10] AvianFlu: heayUser: it returns a reference that you can hang onto
[15:11] rummik: Yeah
[15:11] DavidIAm: can you serialize it though?
[15:11] AvianFlu: if you put timers into an array, you can access those references later, i.e. clearTimeout(timers[5])
[15:11] joshfinnie has joined the channel
[15:11] AvianFlu: or an object, or whatever
[15:11] DavidIAm: if its an object, can you timers[5].clear()?
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[15:11] AvianFlu: I think you have to use the global clearTimeout() function
[15:12] AvianFlu: I don't know if it has a method like that, but I also don't know
[15:12] rummik: Doesn't appear to
[15:12] rummik: clearTimeout() does indeed work, however
[15:12] AvianFlu: yep
[15:12] AvianFlu: that's what the returned ref is for
[15:12] fairwinds: hi, interested in uploading to cloudfiles as stream without building file on server first, anyone aware of a solution already available
[15:12] DavidIAm: Its just not a particularly serializable object like the number referred to in the documentation.
[15:12] rummik: Still, odd that it doesn't pass a number
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[15:13] DavidIAm: (it does seem a little odd to be serializing a runtime-dynamic value though)
[15:13] heavyUser: so im gonna generate my own numeric id to store in a database, set the timeout on an object with the key i just generated and woila i have it
[15:13] rummik: Tried throwing a .toString() on the end, didn't give anything useful
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[15:13] DavidIAm: if the program dies, the id in the db could be recycled by a new instance, for a diff purpose, clearing the timeout could be catastrophic.
[15:13] heavyUser: didnt count for that
[15:14] DavidIAm: 
ACTION has noticed a pattern of ignoring state persistance in nodejs programming at his workplace too.  Interesting pattern.

[15:14] benvie: WeakMaps can use objects as keys
[15:15] benvie: in fact require that
[15:15] DavidIAm: Perhaps a global object can retain your dynamic state for use later in your program run.  Writing it out externally brings up issues.
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[15:15] benvie: but you need to run with --harmony_collections
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[15:16] benvie: they have the same benefits of a regular hash, 0(1) lookup time
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[15:17] benvie: since behind the scenes js is already representing every object with a hash it passes on the benefit without exposing the underlying mechanic
[15:17] heavyUser: hmm
[15:18] benvie: http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:weak_maps
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[15:18] DavidIAm: keys that are objects?  how curious.
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[15:18] DavidIAm: { {dog:true}: 'BARK' } ???
[15:18] benvie: WeakMaps are specifically non-enumerable as well so it opens up some cool new mechanics
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[15:18] benvie: yeah I it's not output visually by the debugger that way
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[15:18] benvie: you use
[15:19] benvie: weakmap.set(keyObject, value)
[15:19] benvie: set, get, has, delete
[15:19] benvie: weakmap.set(objKey, value) returns the value so it's convenient
[15:19] DavidIAm: but can you create a new object
[15:19] DavidIAm: that is identical in keys and values
[15:19] DavidIAm: and reference the value in question?
[15:20] johnhamelink: Inter-module communication: what is the best way to do it, potentially en masse?
[15:20] benvie: return secrets.has(this) ? secrets.get(this) : secrets.set(this, someDefault)
[15:20] benvie: no
[15:20] benvie: javascript objects have globally unique ids
[15:20] benvie: you can't spoof it
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[15:20] benvie: it's using a random hash inside the vm that's inaccessible from js
[15:20] benvie: no two objects have the same identity
[15:21] DavidIAm: benvie - so it only gives you access to values related to objects you already have.  Like a secondary secret store.
[15:21] benvie: exactly!
[15:21] benvie: that's a key feature of weakmaps
[15:21] benvie: you can use it to pass revokable references and some cool stuff
[15:21] benvie: you can store data about external objects without alterting them
[15:21] benvie: say you want to tag every object in the entire scope
[15:21] DavidIAm: benvie - interesting to say the least.
[15:22] benvie: you can do secretcache.set(eachObject, mySecretValue)
[15:22] benvie: so external private data
[15:22] DavidIAm: once again, only useful within a particular process though.
[15:22] benvie: it automatically overrights like any hash does so it's also guranteed unique
[15:22] benvie: yeah
[15:23] heavyUser: thats the sad part yeah
[15:23] DavidIAm: I been working in stateless web programming for so long the very idea of features like that makes me boggle.
[15:23] benvie: you'd need some sort of guid tagging system to go cross process
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[15:23] DavidIAm: there goes the neighborhood.
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[15:23] heavyUser: fuck the netsplits
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[15:24] benvie: weakmaps are interesting in that they specifically solve the issues related to garbage collection
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[15:24] DavidIAm: thats well below the level I'm generally programming at.
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[15:24] benvie: since the weakmap is a kind of blackbox it eliminates cyclic references that keep objects alive when nothing outside would otherwise keep them alive
[15:25] DavidIAm: as a language feature that enables such things, hooray... but I'm not sure there's any specific value on a system message passing algorithmic level.
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[15:25] benvie: yeah no
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[15:25] benvie: I spent all night building out this dbus library
[15:25] benvie: does that help?
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[15:26] heavyUser_: back
[15:26] heavyUser_: never mind my last question about why this isnt standard
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[15:28] DavidIAm: It explains, benvie, but I don't think it solves the concept of serializing a timeout identifier.
[15:29] DavidIAm: we should probably put a bug in if the documentation is wrong.
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[15:29] benvie: hm
[15:29] gsmcwhirter has joined the channel
[15:29] benvie: yeah it's an issue for them to solve it is
[15:29] benvie: but I do have at least one workaround
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[15:30] DavidIAm: hows that?
[15:30] benvie: I recently implemented clipboard support on windows as a module
[15:30] benvie: using node-ffi
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[15:30] benvie: and one of the features I used was copy pasting of actual js objects
[15:30] benvie: not serialized
[15:30] benvie: but the reference to them
[15:30] benvie: node-ffi allows you to write pointers of js objects
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[15:30] benvie: now this crashed node if you try to do it cross process
[15:31] benvie: you can't transplant objects across the boundary
[15:31] benvie: but it does show you can store the reference externally
[15:31] benvie: as long as you make sure you only use it in the same process when you do use it
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[15:31] DavidIAm: le dangerous
[15:32] jetienne has joined the channel
[15:32] DavidIAm: are we talking exception or segfault
[15:32] benvie: yeah I was definitely madly giggling as I went to past an object into another js process. I knew it wasn't going to work but Ih ad to try
[15:32] nibblebot has joined the channel
[15:32] benvie: exception I believe, it was v8
[15:32] heavyUser_: lets suggest the core team to find a solution for serializing a timeout id
[15:32] benvie: it can read the object and also read that it came from somewhere not in its store
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[15:33] benvie: so it punishes you
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[15:33] benvie: but yeah that shouldn't be too hard, and it might already exist in some form
[15:33] DavidIAm: 
ACTION imagines v8 with a cat-o-nine-tails

[15:33] benvie: just not as obvious as in the browser where it's only a number
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[15:46] heavyUser_: well right now im gonna go with this: timeoutIds[<random>] = setTimeout(...) , save <random> and <pid> to database for later clearing if the process is alive
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[15:46] heavyUser_: the set a handler for unCaughtException and hope for the best
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[15:58] heavyUser_: can i process.emit('something') and catch it in another module ?
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[15:59] nathanielk: docs say process is global to all
[15:59] nathanielk: and rationality says that n modules run in 1 global process
[15:59] nathanielk: so i'd say yes.
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[16:01] rlidwka: yes you can, and process.emit('error') is quite common
[16:01] heavyUser_: i tried process.emit('SIGINT') once on 0.4.x which failed
[16:01] heavyUser_: just for testing purposes
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[16:04] rlidwka: it works on 0.6.6
[16:04] heavyUser_: yes
[16:04] heavyUser_: im running 0.6.6 aswell in production right now
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[16:05] heavyUser_: just tested that
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[16:17] HardFu: man I hate 'no such' module
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[16:17] HardFu: which module
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[16:17] DavidIAm: doesn't the trace reference the location it was called and quote the line?
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[16:18] HardFu: no, but maybe it's coffee script's fault
[16:18] HardFu: I'll compile
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[16:22] heavyUser_: anybody willing to inspect my small 100-line gist for possible memory leaks?
[16:22] psye3: like my new gamepad? http://imagetoo.com/?v=448d129570.jpg 
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[16:24] hipsterslapfight: any reason why when i get a callback from 'request' that's a error timeout it seems to loop through the callback again? i can't figure this out for the life of me, i can't respond from in here because it just thinks i'm trying to send the headers again ...
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[16:26] CIA-102: libuv: 03Ben Noordhuis 07master * r2f886c8 10/ (src/unix/core.c src/unix/ev/ev.c src/unix/internal.h): 
[16:26] CIA-102: libuv: unix: don't rely on libev to track timer state
[16:26] CIA-102: libuv: An obscure libev bug sometimes makes it miss state changes. Keep track of the
[16:26] CIA-102: libuv: state ourselves.
[16:26] CIA-102: libuv: Fixes joyent/node#2515. - http://git.io/vsdfrQ
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[16:28] CIA-102: node: 03Shigeki Ohtsu 07master * r18acdff 10/ vcbuild.bat : build: fix the help output of vcbuild.bat - http://git.io/EbXC2g
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[16:37] johnhamelink: is it possible to filter out levels in winston?
[16:38] johnhamelink: I know how to set levels, but I want to ignore them (because im in production mode and want to weed out stuff that's not important)
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[17:06] lmatteis: hello
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[17:06] DavidIAm: hail
[17:06] lmatteis: tilemap is a desktop app written in node
[17:06] lmatteis: how is that possible?
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[17:08] tmcw: lmatteis: *TileMill :)
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[17:08] lmatteis: tmcw: indeed :)
[17:08] tmcw: so, it's possible in different ways on different platforms
[17:08] tmcw: it uses topcube to provide a UI on most platforms
[17:08] tmcw: and then statically builds node and its dependencies
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[17:13] CIA-102: node: 03Ben Noordhuis 07master * raf7960b 10/ (24 files in 9 dirs): uv: upgrade to 2f886c8 - http://git.io/1ej-Dg
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[17:30] addisonj: anyone know of any good wrappers around the v0.6 cluster? That auto restarts and other fancy things
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[17:32] lmatteis: tmcw: what's topcube
[17:33] lmatteis: ah i see
[17:33] tmcw: https://github.com/creationix/topcube
[17:33] lmatteis: so it embeds webkit
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[17:33] ben_alman: isaacs: what's the best way inside of node to get the folder in which global npm modules are installed?
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[17:34] tmike: ben_alman: it's /usr/local
[17:34] ben_alman: on windows?
[17:34] ben_alman: i need a generic way
[17:34] tmike: no idea there
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[17:35] ben_alman: and fwiw you mean /usr/local/lib/node_modules
[17:35] ben_alman: i can do "$(npm config get prefix)/lib/node_modules"
[17:35] ben_alman: but i don't know if that's portable
[17:35] tmike: Yes.  For some reason I was just referring to the prefix.
[17:35] ben_alman: (i'll be doing this inside JS not bash)
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[17:36] tmike: You can load npm as a module.
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[17:37] tmike: Perhaps there's a way to grab the default $NODE_PATH from that.
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[17:38] isaacs: ben_alman: why do you need to know this?
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[17:39] isaacs: ben_alman: but, fwiw:  var npm = require("npm"); npm.load(function(er) { handle the error if there is one, and then, var globalPrefix = npm.globalPrefix })
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[17:39] sechrist_: Are there any modules that bolt on multipart longpolling to http server without socket.io?
[17:39] lmatteis: tmcw: very cool. but it doesn't seem to work on OS X? or is it me
[17:40] tmcw: lmatteis: There's an OSX application wrapper in the tilemill repository
[17:40] tmcw: > https://github.com/mapbox/tilemill/tree/master/platforms/osx
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[17:41] HardFu: can i have less files outside public dir and require them from main.less?
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[17:48] _rockbot__: Where can I find some good examples of using Passport for authentication?
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[17:51] smf: javascript is great on the client-side, but in server side, i need many features such as sha1 hasing, etc, is it easy to do this?
[17:51] smf: what lib does node.js have?
[17:52] smf: i have to write everything from scratch myself?
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[17:52] isaacs: smf: sha1 hashing is tricky to do in js.
[17:52] smf: oh
[17:52] isaacs: smf: but i think the browserid guys did some stuff with that.
[17:52] isaacs: smf: there are some js libs, but they're not going to be quite as fast as the crypto binding in node that uses libssl
[17:52] smf: maybe node.js is better for simple stuff and not serve complex stuff that does caulcation?
[17:53] omni5cience has joined the channel
[17:54] isaacs: smf: node has bindings to sha1
[17:54] isaacs: and sha256 and md5 etc.
[17:55] isaacs: and zlib and all sorts of other stuff that's easier to do in C rather than JS
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[17:57] tmike: ooh that's an interesting idea that I have no idea if anyone's tackled:
[17:57] tmike: a numpy equivalent for node
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[17:57] khinester: hello
[17:57] tmike: some sort of calculations-intensive library
[17:57] tmcw: tmike: some people have done subsets of it
[17:58] tmcw: like http://sylvester.jcoglan.com/
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[17:58] tmcw: and science.js
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[18:00] HardFu: arght! :)
[18:00] HardFu: I have a dir of *.less files
[18:00] yawNO: o/
[18:00] HardFu: outside public
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[18:01] HardFu: can I compile them to css and move them to public in one go?
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[18:01] HardFu: I mean, I know I can, I'm asking for the best option :)
[18:01] tmike: super cool
[18:01] chapel: HardFu: is that really a node problem?
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[18:02] HardFu: well I want to compile them with node :)
[18:02] HardFu: docs are kinda sparse
[18:02] chapel: express?
[18:02] HardFu: yes
[18:02] HardFu: I've tried this: app.use(express.compiler({ src: __dirname + '/public', enable: ['less'] }))
[18:02] HardFu: and it works
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[18:03] HardFu: but less files need to be in /public :)
[18:03] khinester: i have a app that displays 'hits' from a site, these 'hits' are logged inside a riak cluster. what would be the correct way to display the last 10 entries when the browser page is refreshed? i am thinking like the nodejs chat example where when the page is refreshed, you still get the last so many entries?
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[18:04] maxogden: khinester: you are asking how to cache in browser? check out localstorage
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[18:04] chapel: HardFu: well my recommendation would be to have a separate compile step that takes your less files wherever they are, and then moves them to public
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[18:05] khinester: so on the chat example, is the data stored in local storage?
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[18:06] xSmurf: so herm, bcrypt won't work in 0.6.11?
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[18:17] ben_alman: isaacs: remember we were talking aobut plugins the other day? well i want to be able to manually load a global npm module if it exists
[18:17] ben_alman: instead of auto-loading it
[18:18] ben_alman: but i don't want to just require the plugin, i need to get a subfolder within it
[18:18] ben_alman: so, given an npm module name, i need the path where that module lives
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[18:20] ben_alman: isaacs: in what cases would npm.load ever error?
[18:21] isaacs: ben_alman: it does a bunch of file io
[18:21] isaacs: ben_alman: why not just do `require.resolve("blah")`?
[18:21] ben_alman: that works with global npm modules?
[18:22] isaacs: ben_alman: no, but require() doesn't work with global npm modules, either :)
[18:22] ben_alman: right
[18:22] ben_alman: so i'm going to make it work
[18:22] isaacs: ben_alman: nor should it
[18:22] isaacs: why?  that's a terrible idea.
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[18:22] isaacs: you're resurrecting the problems we solved in node 0.4 and npm 1.0
[18:22] ben_alman: the tool is going to be installed globally
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[18:22] ben_alman: and as suck its plugins should be installed globally
[18:22] ben_alman: lol suck
[18:22] ben_alman: such
[18:23] isaacs: ben_alman: no, you were right the first time.
[18:23] isaacs: ;P
[18:23] ben_alman: i see no problems here
[18:23] isaacs: then it'll be able to require() its plugins
[18:23] isaacs: the global space is like a single local space
[18:23] isaacs: but it's isolated from the local spaces just as they're isolated from one another.
[18:23] isaacs: this is on purpose, and wonderful.
[18:23] ben_alman: it's a tool whose bin goes into the path
[18:23] isaacs: right
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[18:23] ben_alman: and is used across projects
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[18:24] ben_alman: the plugins are also used across projects
[18:24] ben_alman: so it's all global
[18:24] ben_alman: kinda like anything you'd install into /usr somewhere
[18:24] ben_alman: it just happens to use npm as its package manager
[18:25] ben_alman: just because it's written in javascript doesn't mean it can't be a globally accessible cli tool with plugins that are also globally accessible
[18:25] ben_alman: now, plugins *can* be installed locally
[18:25] ben_alman: but it's not required
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[18:26] ben_alman: isaacs: so will path.join(npm.globalPrefix, 'lib/node_modules') work on all OSes ?
[18:27] ben_alman: just making sure i understand
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[18:27] isaacs: ben_alman: use path.resove.
[18:27] isaacs: path.resolve
[18:27] ben_alman: k
[18:27] isaacs: also, you can just use `npm.globalDir`
[18:27] isaacs: since, no, it won't work on all OS'es, since win32 doesn't get a "lib/" there.
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[18:28] Onkeltem: Hello
[18:28] ben_alman: gotcha
[18:28] ben_alman: but npm.globalDir works everywhere?
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[18:28] isaacs: ben_alman: again, i must impress upon you, you are heading in a terrible direction.
[18:28] isaacs: ben_alman: there is a better way, i guarantee it.
[18:28] ben_alman: can you elaborate?
[18:28] ben_alman: FUD alone is not enough
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[18:28] HardFu: damn
[18:28] HardFu: [object Object] on error thrown
[18:28] isaacs: ben_alman: the folder structure of npm's global space is a private API.  it's an implementation detail.  you are not supposed to touch it, and i won't ask permission to change it out from under you.
[18:29] isaacs: (point #1) 
[18:29] HardFu: how can i get what's in the object
[18:29] isaacs: #2) there's a reason why local dependencies are great: depending on the state of the global space is deeply problematic.
[18:29] Onkeltem: I'm exporing NPM and what it does and how it does. When I type `npm ls` to get the list of instaled modules, it lists nothing. But in /usr/lib/node_modules  there are at least 3 of them. Why?
[18:29] isaacs: we learned this with gems, with npm 0.x, and so on.
[18:29] ben_alman: isaacs: when you use "node" on the command line, you depend on it being installed correctly
[18:29] isaacs: Onkeltem: because you've installed things globally, not locally.
[18:29] ben_alman: in a global space
[18:29] isaacs: Onkeltem: npm faq <-- read this
[18:30] Onkeltem: isaacs: yes, this was the first though, so I ran it with sudo :)
[18:30] Onkeltem: isaacs: thanks, I'll do
[18:30] TooTallNate has joined the channel
[18:30] isaacs: ben_alman: the fact that you are unable to reduce the global deps to zero doesn't justify increasing them beyond 1
[18:30] boltR has joined the channel
[18:30] ben_alman: i don't know what that means
[18:30] addisonj: 
ACTION applaus isaacs patience :)

[18:30] isaacs: ben_alman: "when you use "node" on the command line, you depend on it being installed correctly"
[18:30] dannyamey has joined the channel
[18:30] isaacs: ben_alman: This is true.
[18:31] addisonj: applauds*
[18:31] RLa: hm, cloud9 source code seems to be pretty nice place where to study how to write large js project
[18:31] isaacs: ben_alman: however, it is not a pleasant fact.
[18:31] isaacs: ben_alman: it's an unfortunate thing we can't avoid.
[18:31] isaacs: ben_alman: don't make more of these types of things.
[18:31] jacksonmills has joined the channel
[18:31] RLa: it seems to be heavily object-oriented
[18:31] isaacs: ben_alman: as the maintainer of one of the most widely used global npm modules, i can assure you, pain awaits at the end of this road.
[18:31] Onkeltem: Is there a browsable list of packages yet?
[18:31] jacksonmills: oh hai everyone. Just q uick question; does anyone know off the top of their head if v8, the core v8, implements "require" or if that's something that only node does ( i.e., does V8 implement CommonJS ? )
[18:32] ben_alman: npm has built in a mechanism for allowing modules to create globally accessible bin scripts that are put in the users' path
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[18:32] ben_alman: how can you allow that and then say "oh but don't make anything global"
[18:32] isaacs: ben_alman: because npm itself needs this in order to function.
[18:32] isaacs: ben_alman: if something is global, don't try to make it ALSO local, that's what i'm saying.
[18:32] ben_alman: what about jshint for example, it has a bin script
[18:32] isaacs: ben_alman: global modules should be run as their cli script, and then that's it.
[18:32] ben_alman: wait, i'm not making anything "also local"
[18:32] addisonj: whats the problem with installing it once locally and once globally?
[18:32] jacksonmills: issacs: Do you know?
[18:33] ben_alman: this is intended to be run via cli entirely
[18:33] RLa: jacksonmills, i think it's from node
[18:33] isaacs: ben_alman: if they're used locally, they should be run from ./node_modules/.bin/whatever, like when you run tap or vows via `npm test`
[18:33] Onkeltem: isaacs: `npm faq` rocks!
[18:33] jacksonmills: RLa: thx, do you know if node creates its own static precompiled lib? like does it have its own flavor of v8?
[18:33] isaacs: jacksonmills: require() is node-only
[18:33] ben_alman: this whole thing is global
[18:33] ben_alman: it's intalled via -g
[18:33] jacksonmills: aka a v8.a just for node?
[18:33] isaacs: jacksonmills: read through ./src/node.js and ./lib/module.js in node's source tree
[18:33] jacksonmills: ok
[18:33] ben_alman: i'm not sure where you got the "local" bit from
[18:33] jacksonmills: thanks isaacs 
[18:34] isaacs: ben_alman: then why do you need to iterate through npm's global space?
[18:34] RLa: jacksonmills, i think there are some js files compiled into node binary
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[18:34] isaacs: ben_alman: why not just read path.resolve(__dirname, "..")?
[18:34] isaacs: (even then, packages should stay in their boxes)
[18:34] rekon has joined the channel
[18:34] ben_alman: the tool is global. it can conditionally load 3rd party plugins that are also global, depending on how it's used. they aren't dependencies, because they are entirely optional and maintained by other people
[18:35] ben_alman: it's like inside a perl script shelling out and running ruby or anything else
[18:35] ben_alman: except not so dirty
[18:35] isaacs: ben_alman: then why not let users add plugins by doing something like: `bentool addplugin foo`, which then runs `npm install bentool-foo` in a child process, locally, so it's right there in your local node_modules folder?
[18:36] gaarf has joined the channel
[18:36] ben_alman: that's like telling the user of a makefile to install gcc locally
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[18:36] RLa: btw, what you guys think about this pattern: module.exports = SingleFunction ?
[18:36] isaacs: ben_alman: are any of your plugins anywhere near the complexity, scope, or size of gcc?
[18:36] isaacs: RLa: use that all the time.  <3 it.
[18:37] ben_alman: isaacs: things inevitably get more complex
[18:37] RLa: oh, it seems pretty common in cloud9 too
[18:37] ben_alman: this is meant to be a generic global plugin loading system for a global cli-run module
[18:37] isaacs: ben_alman: it is our job to fight to contain that complexity, not look for new exciting ways to spew it all over everywhere.
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[18:38] ben_alman: the tool is only as complex as it needs to be
[18:38] isaacs: ben_alman: if you install your plugins locally in the root project, then they go away with you when i uninstall the tool.
[18:38] tmike: ben_alman: tools are often much more complex than they need to be
[18:38] ben_alman: i don't know what that means isaacs
[18:38] andrehjr_ has joined the channel
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[18:38] isaacs: ben_alman: ok, let's assume that you're not allowed to read or even know about anything outside your own package's directory.
[18:38] ben_alman: what does that have todo with it being installed globally?
[18:38] ben_alman: ok
[18:38] ben_alman: gotcha.
[18:39] isaacs: your tool has to work whether it's local, or global, or copied and pasted or rsynced etc.
[18:39] isaacs: or just a random git checkout
[18:39] ben_alman: well, someone else's tool, not mine, but continue
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[18:39] isaacs: for the sake of this discussion, let's call it yours.
[18:39] ben_alman: let's not.
[18:39] isaacs: what is it?
[18:39] ben_alman: the reason i created a tool installed globally via npm was to avoid having it be a part of every project
[18:40] isaacs: ben_alman: what is the actual thing?
[18:40] ben_alman: which was extremely cumbersome
[18:40] ben_alman: grunt
[18:40] isaacs: ben_alman: what's it called?
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[18:40] isaacs: ok, so you install grunt globally.
[18:40] isaacs: then you want to add a plugin to grunt.
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[18:40] isaacs: so you run `grunt addplugin grunt-foo`
[18:40] isaacs: cli bikeshedding notwithstanding.
[18:40] ben_alman: ya
[18:41] ben_alman: more like `npm install -g grunt-foo`
[18:41] isaacs: no.
[18:41] ben_alman: otherwise it adds a lot more complexity into grunt
[18:41] isaacs: you have some way to modify the grunt source code.
[18:42] isaacs: grunt *can't see anything outside its folder*
[18:42] misza222 has joined the channel
[18:42] isaacs: why?  because it's installed as "nobody" and "root" owns that folder, and has chmodded it 0700
[18:42] joe__k has joined the channel
[18:42] isaacs: and i run grunt as my local user, not as root
[18:42] joe__k: sweet, mocha 0.13 seemed to fix all my context/before issues
[18:42] bradleymeck: don't modify source just make grunt have a config file of which plugins to load, then pull in the plugins dynamically from the grunt global directory, don't make peer dependencies if they are plugins for a system
[18:42] ben_alman: the user will be able to tell grunt to point to an arbitrary location to load additional stuff from
[18:43] isaacs: what is grunt?
[18:43] isaacs: something you've installed with npm?
[18:43] ben_alman: yes
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[18:43] ben_alman: bradleymeck: but i need to allow users to write plugins that aren't part of grunt directly, because it would be difficult to maintain all that
[18:43] ben_alman: so they can maintain their plugins and i maintain grunt
[18:43] isaacs: if it has a plugin api, why is it adding undue complexity to ask grunt to give you a way to load plugins?
[18:43] Onkeltem: (reading faq) Oh, I'd broken the rule of not-capitalizing npm when joint here. Sorry for that ;-)
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[18:44] isaacs: Onkeltem: it's ok :)
[18:44] isaacs: that's mostly a joek
[18:44] ben_alman: isaacs: it doesn't have a "plugin" api, it has a "load extra stuff from an arbitrary folder" api
[18:44] ben_alman: and that extra stuff could be .. in a globally installed npm module
[18:44] bradleymeck: ben_alman just make a directory in the global grun install that keeps a list of all things installed via `grunt install`
[18:45] isaacs: ben_alman: why don't you write a grunt-plugins tool in npm, and tell grunt to load plugins from that thing's node_modules folder.
[18:45] isaacs: ben_alman: again: this is cli bikeshedding.
[18:45] yawNO_ has joined the channel
[18:45] isaacs: ben_alman: so you run `gruntp add-plugin grunt-foo`
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[18:45] ben_alman: isaacs: this is assuming i have the bandwidth to write a plugins management system
[18:45] isaacs: ben_alman: then grunt loads everhting in ../grung-plugins/node_modules
[18:46] bradleymeck: ben_alman just use something like broadway if you want a simple plugin system
[18:46] isaacs: ben_alman: you're writing one right now, but going down this extremely brittle path.
[18:46] ben_alman: but i'm not really
[18:46] isaacs: ben_alman: i'm trying to show you the paved sidewalk
[18:46] ben_alman: yeah but i'm clearly not getting it
[18:46] ben_alman: i see your concern
[18:46] ben_alman: and i'm trying to talk through all this
[18:46] jnbek has joined the channel
[18:46] ben_alman: but i don't see where the problem is
[18:46] isaacs: sure
[18:46] tylerstalder has joined the channel
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[18:47] bradleymeck: ben_alman i guess what we are having trouble with is, why does it need to be global? why cant you have something like grunt.json that lists what node_modules to load and attach? then `grunt add-plugin` would just be diverting to npm install
[18:47] isaacs: the problem is that you'er relying on a private API and a naming convention
[18:47] bradleymeck: global installs are nightmares if 2 versions are ever ever needed
[18:47] isaacs: what is grunt, anyway?
[18:47] ben_alman: task-based js build tool
[18:47] chapel: isaacs: a build tool
[18:47] isaacs: oic, it's like jake or whatever.
[18:48] hermanjunge: isaacs Hi
[18:48] ben_alman: kinda, but with lots predefined
[18:48] ben_alman: because jake is just the tasks
[18:48] ben_alman: er
[18:48] ben_alman: just the framework
[18:48] ben_alman: this has a lot of very commonly used tasks built-in
[18:48] hermanjunge: isaacs: Besides node-inspector, do you suggest or recommend other tool?
[18:48] yawNO has joined the channel
[18:48] hermanjunge: other than console.log() like crazy
[18:48] ben_alman: i started by writing ridiculously complicated jakefiles and realized that maintaining the same huge jakefile across dozens of projects wasn't going to work
[18:49] ben_alman: so i decided to build a tool
[18:49] isaacs: ben_alman: sure, sounds reasonable.
[18:49] ben_alman: so the whole idea was to make it install globally so all i'd need is a grunt.js config file per-project
[18:49] ben_alman: then people wanted to add plugins
[18:49] ben_alman: and i didn't want to write a plugin management system
[18:50] ben_alman: so i figured.. what's easy? well the user wants to make their own tasks in grunt-foo installed globally, i can jsut load that along with the built-in tasks
[18:50] ben_alman: and super simple, i get my tool, they get their extensions, win
[18:50] isaacs: ben_alman: what if i *want* to install grunt locally, and then run `grunt do-stuff` in my package.json prepublish script, so that it gets loaded from ./node_modules/.bin
[18:51] ben_alman: that works fine too. you can even run it in JS
[18:51] isaacs: right.
[18:51] ben_alman: wait idea
[18:51] isaacs: but if grunt tries to read the global install space, then that'll fail.
[18:51] ben_alman: idea!
[18:51] isaacs: *especially* if it assumes that everything named grunt-blah is a plugin.
[18:51] isaacs: !!!! :)
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[18:52] ben_alman: what if, when you specify an grunt-foo npm module in grunt, it loads ../grunt-foo relative to where grunt was installed
[18:52] ben_alman: so if grunt was local, it's local. if grunt was global, it's global
[18:52] isaacs: ben_alman: or just require("grunt-foo")
[18:52] isaacs: ben_alman: if they're in the same install space, ti'll Just Work
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[18:52] isaacs: ben_alman: all they have to do is put the plugin name in their grunt.json file
[18:52] isaacs: or grunt.js or however you tell grunt what to do
[18:52] ben_alman: will that work if both grunt and grunt-foo are global OR loval?
[18:53] ben_alman: local
[18:53] isaacs: they have to both be the same.
[18:53] ben_alman: well, that works for me
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[18:53] ben_alman: i didn't realize
[18:53] isaacs: might want to document that if you've installed grunt locally, you need to also install the plugins locally.
[18:53] isaacs: and vice-versa if it's global
[18:53] ben_alman: yes
[18:53] ben_alman: that makes sense
[18:53] ben_alman: hmmn
[18:54] isaacs: then also you don't have to rely on the naming convention.  i could call a plugin grint, as long as i name it in the grunt.json, it doesn't matter.
[18:54] ben_alman: yeah
[18:54] ben_alman: it's just a convention
[18:54] ben_alman: so here's the complexity
[18:54] ben_alman: i'm not just requiring the module
[18:54] ben_alman: the module contains other assets i might need
[18:54] ben_alman: arbitrary files
[18:54] ben_alman: so i really need the path to the required grunt-foo
[18:54] isaacs: the module?
[18:54] isaacs: the plugin module?
[18:55] isaacs: require.resolve("grunt-foo") <-- that'll tell you
[18:55] ben_alman: i need to access "tasks"/ under grunt-foo
[18:55] ben_alman: ok
[18:55] ben_alman: let me try!
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[18:55] tmike: 
ACTION is glad he's not working with this build system

[18:55] ben_alman: tmike: fwiw, a lot of people have given me really good feedback
[18:55] ben_alman: but fuck you :)
[18:55] ben_alman: heh
[18:55] isaacs: ben_alman: it'll give you the location of the "main" module, not the folder.
[18:55] tmike: lol
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[18:56] isaacs: ben_alman: but you can probably deduce that with a little bit of string jiggering.
[18:56] tmike: I'm sure it's awesome; it just sounds . . . hard
[18:56] ben_alman: ya
[18:56] isaacs: ben_alman: the root folder will be the first thing after the right-most node_modules folder
[18:56] dscape: mikeal: tako tako burrito burrito
[18:56] ben_alman: tmike: it's actually super simple. it comes with a scaffolding init feature too
[18:56] ben_alman: makes creating a new project super easy
[18:56] ben_alman: but w/e i wrote it for me
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[18:58] tmike: So you're creating a system to build and maintain projects, using grunt as the build system.  these additional plugns are to extend grunt or for deployment purposes?
[18:59] ben_alman: people want to extend grunt, to add tasks that i haven't made
[18:59] ben_alman: like to minify css
[18:59] ben_alman: which i kinda don't care about
[18:59] tmike: and you want a central grunt, with centralized build tasks, but people want their own tasks on top
[18:59] ben_alman: yeah
[18:59] tmike: I dig
[19:00] ben_alman: i seriously looked at everything before starting to write this
[19:00] ben_alman: it's been a lot of work
[19:00] ben_alman: but i wasn't happy with anything else
[19:00] mikeal: dscape: hahaha
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[19:01] dilvie: does it rebuild on file change?
[19:01] ryanfitz has joined the channel
[19:01] ben_alman: dilvie: yes, there is a watch task
[19:01] dilvie: and let you hook in jshint?
[19:01] ben_alman: it can run arbitrtary tasks on file change
[19:01] ben_alman: jshint is built-in
[19:01] ben_alman: as is uglify js
[19:01] dilvie: ben_alman: hook me up with a url
[19:01] ben_alman: https://github.com/cowboy/grunt
[19:02] dilvie: ben_alman: thanks. =)
[19:02] ben_alman: i even have qunit running in phantomjs
[19:02] ben_alman: np
[19:02] tmike: that does sound like a really useful system
[19:02] paulwe has joined the channel
[19:02] ben_alman: i've got a lot of docs left to write
[19:02] arduix has joined the channel
[19:02] maxogden: mikeal: you get to write new web frameworks and im stuck patching jquery plugins. who has the fun job again???
[19:02] dilvie: ben_alman: That's great.
[19:02] ben_alman: but like, do a npm install -g grunt and then in a new folder do: grunt init:node
[19:02] ben_alman: just to see what it does
[19:02] dilvie: Sounds like it does just about everything Hawthorn does (our internal build tool at RootMusic)
[19:03] ben_alman: cool
[19:03] dilvie: we're planning to open source ours, but it hasn't happened yet.
[19:03] _shadowshell has joined the channel
[19:03] ben_alman: cool
[19:03] mikeal: maxogden: but you get to write Objective-C! you get all the fun :)
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[19:04] dilvie: I'm going to take grunt for a spin. Thanks for the heads up.
[19:04] mikeal: also, i have to deal with out bank and our payroll and writing out contractor checks, etc. :)
[19:04] ben_alman: np look forward to your feedback
[19:04] ben_alman: we have #grunt
[19:04] maxogden: mikeal: oha lso you should add the domain routing thing to tako today
[19:05] ben_alman: isaacs: is there any way to, while developing grunt or a grunt-foo module to have it load them from where they're being developed? they're "not yet" global while being developed, you see
[19:05] beejeebus has joined the channel
[19:05] ben_alman: i've done npm link to make the bin global
[19:05] mikeal: ok
[19:05] maxogden: mikeal: so i can add vhosts to https://github.com/maxogden/rewriter
[19:05] ben_alman: but… is there anything else i can do?
[19:05] mikeal: we should meet up later downtown
[19:05] mikeal: that new place at 1:30?
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[19:06] maxogden: im there now
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[19:10] ben_alman: isaacs: the only way i can see to generically look for grunt-foo globally if grunt is global or locally if grunt is local would be to look relative to __dirname inside of grunt… unless you know of a way to "simulate" grunt or grunt-foo being installed globally.. ideas?
[19:10] isaacs: grunt should not know whether it's global or not
[19:10] isaacs: it should be agnostic
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[19:10] ben_alman: right
[19:11] ben_alman: so what happens when i'm devving grunt and have made it global with npm link
[19:11] ben_alman: or am devving grunt-foo
[19:11] isaacs: ben_alman:  then you need to install the plugins locally to wherever grunt actually is for real
[19:11] isaacs: if grunt is global and grunt-foo is linked global, it'll work
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[19:11] ben_alman: hmmn
[19:12] ben_alman: in this scenario, grunt and grunt-sample are folders right nect to each other on my hard drive
[19:12] yawNO: ping
[19:12] yawNO: am i dead?
[19:12] ben_alman: i've linked grunt with npm link
[19:12] ben_alman: but require.resolve('grunt-sample'); errors
[19:12] thinkt4nk has joined the channel
[19:12] ben_alman: "Cannot find module"
[19:12] ben_alman: yawNO: pong
[19:12] yawNO: thank yu
[19:12] yawNO: *you
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[19:15] yawNO: what's wrong with jsperf? i'm having issues posting tests
[19:15] yawNO: anyone has the same issue
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[19:17] ben_alman: isaacs: right now, grunt and grunt-sample are folders right next to each other on my hard drive. i've used npm link. inside grunt, this errors: require.resolve('grunt-sample');
[19:17] tmike: require.resolve('../grunt-sample')?
[19:18] ben_alman: nope
[19:18] tmike: worth a shot
[19:18] ben_alman: heh
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[19:20] Onkeltem: How to drown into packages list? Is there a browsable catalog of packages?
[19:20] Onkeltem: How to *not* 
[19:21] tmike: Onkeltem: http://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/modules
[19:21] tmike: A good place to start
[19:21] Onkeltem: tmike: thanks a lot!
[19:21] yawNO: hey does someone know if it's faster to use ternary operator with self executing closures or if() { } else {} for a single condition?
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[19:25] jesusabdullah: yawNO: Why? Is this really a bottleneck for you?
[19:25] jesusabdullah: yawNO: Also, jsperf it
[19:25] yawNO: nop i was just checking.. curiosity
[19:25] yawNO: i came up with this
[19:25] yawNO: http://jsperf.com/ifvsternarynode
[19:25] yawNO: but im not really sure if i'm doing the test right
[19:26] maxogden: yawNO: the ternary test creates closures which probably skews results
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[19:27] yawNO: maxogden: well it should be slower with closures wouldn't it?
[19:27] yawNO: *shouldn't
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[19:28] T-Co: Does 0.6.11 have recursive mkdir?
[19:28] T-Co: Or should I just spawn mkdir -p
[19:29] maxogden: T-Co: http://search.npmjs.org/#/mkdirp
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[19:29] ben_alman: i wrote my own mkdir -p because it was pretty easy
[19:29] yawNO: maxogden: but i haven't really understood how it should skew the result.. i'm sorry :|
[19:29] yawNO: could you explain please :D ?
[19:29] ben_alman: it'd be great if there was a node FileUtils like ruby has
[19:29] ben_alman: :)
[19:30] T-Co: If it isn't in the core, i'd rather use a solution that already works :) like mkdir -p :)
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[19:30] T-Co: But yeah
[19:30] T-Co: Thanks
[19:30] ben_alman: but what about on windows, etc
[19:30] T-Co: True that
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[19:31] T-Co: Windows blows :/
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[19:31] T-Co: ben_alman, Any pointers on making "wget" with the http client?
[19:31] ben_alman: no idea
[19:31] T-Co: k
[19:32] T-Co: Or anyone else for that matter
[19:32] maxogden: T-Co: can you elaborate on what "making 'wget'" means
[19:32] tmike: I think me means a clone?
[19:33] tmike: he*
[19:33] maxogden: yawNO: closures are more espensive than not using closures
[19:33] tmike: T-Co: just start doing it.  Make you some requests and write you some files.
[19:33] yawNO: maxogden: exactly
[19:33] maxogden: *expensive
[19:33] yawNO: maxogden: so how comes that the ternary is faster?
[19:33] yawNO: that's why i thought i got the test wrong
[19:33] maxogden: yawNO: lol oh
[19:34] maxogden: yawNO: not sure hehe
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[19:34] yawNO: maxogden: i don't mind.. i mind ternary to be much more cleaner than if
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[19:34] yawNO: and i would be anything but glad that the test was right
[19:34] yawNO: :D
[19:34] joshsmith: T-Co: request + fs
[19:34] T-Co: maxogden, Well, as ben_alman pointed out, I think I need to support windows as well. So in order to get files saved over http, I need to make that in node. So
[19:34] T-Co: joshsmith, Thanks
[19:35] maxogden: T-Co: require('request')('http://cats.png').pipe(require('filed')('/cats.png'))
[19:36] joshsmith: maxogden++
[19:36] T-Co: maxogden, What about dogs, you forgot the dogs man!
[19:36] joshsmith: lolcats++
[19:36] mmalecki: 
ACTION quickly checks if there is 'http://cats.png'

[19:36] maxogden: node was built for cats
[19:37] T-Co: Oh
[19:37] joshsmith: my cat is async
[19:38] ben_alman: my cats are very, very furry
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[19:39] ben_alman: http://www.flickr.com/photos/robynalman/4126833164/in/set-72157622587940939
[19:40] maxogden: ben_alman: hahahaha that photo rules
[19:40] ben_alman: heh
[19:40] ben_alman: this one's good http://www.flickr.com/photos/robynalman/4647565200/in/set-72157622587940939
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[19:41] joshsmith: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r6YVZ98ALY&context=C3928c28ADOEgsToPDskKO3K35rcVwXqoYXaex4RNB
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[19:41] ben_alman: lol joshsmith
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[19:42] ben_alman: that's great
[19:42] joshsmith: my cat is so weird
[19:43] joshsmith: we were watching lolcats on the youtubes last night
[19:43] joshsmith: and he got mad jelly
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[19:43] joshsmith: http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/154265_182260728451396_100000024106867_673304_6578833_n.jpg
[19:44] joshsmith: introduced him to the world's largest litterbox
[19:44] chilts: mikeal: am liking the look of 'filed' - thanks, that's (read: you're) awesome :)
[19:44] maxogden: joshsmith: hahahahah in that video 0:06 is the best
[19:44] joshsmith: and sunbathing: http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/26993_643078124380_25909537_37602274_6623781_n.jpg
[19:44] chilts: 
ACTION wonders if he got the right mikeal :D

[19:44] joshsmith: chilts: YOU DID
[19:44] mikeal: chilts: thanks :)
[19:45] chilts: :)
[19:45] ben_alman: hmmn.. i definitely can't seem to require.resolve('foo'); from within my 'bar' lib if both foo and bar have been npm linked
[19:45] mmalecki: joshsmith: hahaha, that's so sweet
[19:45] ben_alman: anyone know how to get this working?
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[19:45] isaacs: ben_alman: no, you cna't do that.
[19:45] isaacs: ben_alman: because they're actually not in the same space.
[19:45] isaacs: ben_alman: modules get realpath'ed
[19:45] ben_alman: wait, i thought you said i could
[19:45] joshsmith: we take our cat on walks
[19:45] joshsmith: we're weird
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[19:45] ben_alman: they are right next to each other in the file system
[19:45] maxogden: joshsmith: with a leash???
[19:45] joshsmith: yeah
[19:46] maxogden: joshsmith: fucked up man, fucked up
[19:46] joshsmith: hahah he likes it!
[19:46] ben_alman: isaacs: so is there a dev-friendly way to require.resolve something if it's being developed and npm link has been used?
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[19:48] isaacs: ben_alman: link them into each other
[19:48] isaacs: ben_alman: cd foo; npm link ../bar
[19:49] ben_alman: does that make them appear as if they were both installed locally then?
[19:49] ben_alman: like, to each other
[19:49] joshsmith: maxogden: we grew him catgrass: http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/38072_939241390618_5723763_50908349_3592423_n.jpg
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[19:53] joshsmith: ahahah ben_alman this is classic: http://www.flickr.com/photos/robynalman/4126678438/in/set-72157622587940939/
[19:53] RLa: how common is returning instance of EventEmitter that you will use instead of callback(s)?
[19:53] ben_alman: heh joshsmith yeah
[19:53] joshsmith: 
ACTION is lost in the cat section of #node.js again

[19:53] ben_alman: haha
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[19:54] maxogden: node point lolcode
[19:54] maxogden: stream can haz data
[19:55] murvin: npm down?
[19:55] murvin: hmm nvm just slow
[19:55] ben_alman: isaacs: i've done npm link and it still doesn't work.
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[19:56] isaacs: ben_alman: do the modules in question have a "main" defined?
[19:56] ben_alman: ah
[19:56] ben_alman: hmmn
[19:56] ben_alman: let me look!
[19:56] isaacs: ben_alman: if not, then they're not require()able anyway
[19:56] isaacs: ben_alman: so require.resolve() will fail
[19:56] ben_alman: ok, great
[19:56] ben_alman: the sample didn't, i'll add it
[19:57] ben_alman: ok, that worked.
[19:57] ben_alman: thanks!
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[19:58] RLa: is there some utility to connect eventemitters e1 and e2 so e2 re-emits certain e1 events?
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[20:02] yawNO: i've got a little question
[20:02] yawNO: would something like
[20:02] yawNO: condition ? function() : other(); be seen as a bad habit?
[20:03] yawNO: i know strict js doesnt allow it but i don't see the point in writing if() {} else {}
[20:03] yawNO: for a single condition check
[20:03] c4milo: isaacs: any idea of when the next node 0.6.x release will be?
[20:04] c4milo: isaacs: just curious
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[20:05] yawNO: c4milo: releases are usually every 2-3 weeks
[20:05] yawNO: (amirite?)
[20:06] isaacs: c4milo: this week
[20:06] isaacs: yawNO: they were every week for a while, but changes are coming less often now.
[20:06] c4milo: isaacs: cool. thanks
[20:06] isaacs: yawNO: 0.7 releases should speed up pretty soon, though
[20:06] isaacs: 0.6.12 will probably land thursday or friday
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[20:09] tmike: hey is there a way, when defining an object, to make one member be equivalent to the other, like so:
[20:09] tmike: { 'a': 15, 'b': this.a}
[20:10] yawNO: isaacs: well if changes are coming less often then it means api are stabilizing
[20:10] yawNO: that's good :D
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[20:10] nathanielk: tmike: no.
[20:11] tmike: that's pretty much what I figured
[20:11] nathanielk: the object to which you are trying to refer literally does not exist
[20:11] tmike: I tried that and of course it broke
[20:11] TooTallNate: tmike: you can define "b" as a getter that gets this.a
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[20:11] TooTallNate: but really, there's rarely a good reason to do that
[20:11] nathanielk: indeed
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[20:11] tmike: I am trying to set up a hash and I have a bunch of synonyms
[20:12] TooTallNate: tmike: perhaps use a get(), set(), has(), delete() API
[20:12] tmike: I'm using Alex Gorbatchev's syntax highlighter in a pastebin clone I'm working on, and he has a bunch of names for syntaxes
[20:12] TooTallNate: which knows about the synonym names
[20:12] tmike: And each syntax wants a different js file from his library
[20:13] murvin: have anyone run into infinite loop when doing session ?  http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9488568/node-js-session-with-infinite-loop
[20:13] nathanielk: tmike: see https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript/Reference/Operators/get
[20:13] tmike: the basic structure is you assign a class to a pre, and then run a highlight function and it does its magic, but the highlight function is defined in the brush js files, like shBrushJScript.js
[20:14] tmike: So I was hoping to, in a fairly non-verbose way, make x.c, x.cpp refer to the same thing.
[20:15] TooTallNate: ya i mean use a getter
[20:15] TooTallNate: why not
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[20:15] tmike: eh, it seems simpler to just copy the 'c': 'shBrushCpp.js', line and change the first chunk
[20:16] tmike: these getters look pretty useful though
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[20:16] Phoenixz: I throw an exception in a function, and in that same function I have a try and catch, but the exception never reaches the catch, the process just exits.. Is this normal behaviour?
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[20:19] murvin: Phoenixz:  show me your code.  most likely, inside your try & catch, there is some aysnc call.  async call will not be caught you need to have another try-catch in teh callback.
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[20:20] Phoenixz: murvin: Ah! yes! Its an async call.. : So how do you do try / catch on async calls then?
[20:20] isaacs: tmike: no
[20:20] isaacs: tmike: oh, i'm scrolled way back, that quesiton was already answered *^_^*
[20:20] tmike: lol
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[20:21] isaacs: yawNO: yes, 0.6 is very much stabilizing.  0.7 is still in motion.
[20:21] yawNO: isaacs: i'm actually using 0.7 because i need the new version of V8
[20:21] yawNO: (Direct proxies anyone? :P)
[20:21] murvin: usually,   you will have a function (e.g. file write).   file.write(data, function(err, data) {  try { .... } catch (ex) {} })     do another try and catch insdie the callback
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[20:22] murvin: anyone can help me and take a look at this issue? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9488568/node-js-session-with-infinite-loop
[20:22] isaacs: yawNO: beware that the v8 version in 0.7 will keep upgrading very quickly without regard for ABI compatibility
[20:22] isaacs: yawNO: at least, until we start calling 0.7 0.8
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[20:23] maletor: How do I use node to console.log something at 10:45 am?
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[20:24] yawNO: isaacs: i still use 0.6 locally
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[20:24] yawNO: 0.7 is on the vps
[20:24] yawNO: nop sry
[20:24] yawNO: 0.7 is locally
[20:24] yawNO: 0.6 is on the server
[20:24] yawNO: (otherwise wouldnt make much sense o,O)
[20:24] yawNO: so yeah i should be good.. but thx :P
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[20:30] kcf: isaacs: i remember you were discussing tls stuff this past weekend and decided to run some tests against node and compare it to apache 2.2 on the same hardware... got about 600-650 SSL handshakes per sec with node, 2000 per sec with apache
[20:31] Lee_: I'm looking for the most efficient solution to restart a crashed nodejs process. Normally I'd use monit (for other services), but I'm new to node.js. I see that there's a system called 'forever'. Does this system poll like monit, or is it event based?
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[20:32] kcf: isaacs: i was using RSA_With_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA, sslv3, and 512-bit encryption
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[20:33] isaacs: kcf: that seems kinda slow.
[20:33] isaacs: kcf: which node?
[20:34] kcf: 0.6.11
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[20:38] kcf: isaacs: should i be using an unstable build instead of 0.6.11?
[20:39] isaacs: no, 0.6.11 is fine.
[20:39] isaacs: kcf: just wondering where to start looking :)
[20:39] isaacs: kcf: is your test code online anywhere?
[20:39] isaacs: kcf: also, were you testing https, or just opening up a socket and doing tls repeatedly?
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[20:43] joe__k: is there a way for Mocha.js to recognize the UI style from the .coffee file
[20:43] kcf: isaacs: i was using this code: https://gist.github.com/1934981
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[20:57] dshaw_: jesusabdullah: yo!
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[20:58] _rockbot_: hiya, anyone have any experience using Passport for authentication with Mongoose?
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[21:01] jesusabdullah: dshaw_: hey hey
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[21:03] dshaw_: jesusabdullah: see PM
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[21:10] Sembiance: very interesting: https://github.com/scriby/asyncblock
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[21:14] lz: Sembliance, nice find
[21:14] lz: *Sembiance
[21:15] diminoten: silly question, but my code hangs at the end, how do I tell node to exit ?
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[21:17] Sembiance: lz: found it on http://dailyjs.com/2012/02/15/node-roundup/
[21:17] diminoten: will node exit naturally?
[21:17] Sembiance: lz: I'm not quite ready to re-write all my node code to use it, but I'm gonna keep it in my head and think about it a bit more
[21:17] Sembiance: diminoten: well, you can always do  process.exit();  when you are done
[21:17] diminoten: god dammit
[21:18] diminoten: Sembiance: sounds good
[21:18] diminoten: this is jsut for testing
[21:18] Sembiance: :)
[21:18] diminoten: see if I understand a library right :D
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[21:20] diverdude: is there some file upload lib for node.js?
[21:20] Sembiance: diverdude: you mean to accept file uploads from the browser?
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[21:21] diverdude: Sembiance: yeah so that i can do multiple uploads
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[21:21] kcf: diverdude: i've been playing with a couple of node modules for that... tried formidable and delivery and they both seem to work decently
[21:21] diverdude: Sembiance: so the user e.g. selects a folder and then all images in the folder is uploaded
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[21:22] kcf: formidable handles multiple file uploads pretty well
[21:22] diverdude: kcf: do you have a link?
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[21:22] kcf: diverdude: https://github.com/felixge/node-formidable
[21:22] Sembiance: diverdude: ahh. So I have no experience with multiple file uploads, only ever handled one at a time (used expressjs.com for that)
[21:23] felixge: diverdude: there is also transloadit.com : )
[21:23] kcf: ha, speak of the devil, er, author :)
[21:24] diverdude: felixge: yeah in that README for formidable it says "This module was developed for Transloadit,"
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[21:25] felixge: diverdude: :)
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[21:26] ts__: is there an eventemitter capable of having listeners called in a sequential way ?
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[21:27] tmike: felixge: I just commented on an issue you'd closed in node-couchdb related to db.changesStream
[21:27] diverdude: felixge: ohh hehehe :D you did the plugin :D
[21:27] tmike: I'm getting it in node v0.6.11 with freshly installed felix-couchdb
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[21:27] felixge: tmike: thx, I don't maintain that module anymore, but hopefully some of the people who help me with it will do
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[21:28] tmike: is there a fork that gets more activity or do they maintain yours?
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[21:43] TheEmpath: hail nodelings
[21:43] TheEmpath: I love it when a programmer has 8-12 people that can tell him what to do... and none of those people communicate.
[21:44] TheEmpath: anywho, anyway to run node in mlockall(2) mode?  I don't want any part of the VM going to swap
[21:45] lz: these backbone branches are gonna look really cool on the network graph
[21:46] lz: whups
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[21:49] QaDeS: TheEmpath, i'm pretty sure you can just call that from inside a c extension. but setting /proc/sys/vm/swappiness to "0" might be a more stable option, as it doesn't kill your process when you outgrow memory
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[21:55] TheEmpath: QaDeS ahhh spiffy i was afraid that adjusting swappiness would make processes go SCREW YOU IM BAILING AHAHAH DIE KERNAL
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[21:56] TheEmpath: QaDeS: Swappiness of 0 will still write to disk if I run out of ram :(
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[22:11] QaDeS: the alternetive is to have your process killed if you run out of ram...you choose
[22:12] QaDeS: can you tell something about your usecase?
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[22:36] rio{: When doing toString() on a Slowbuffer that contains ff, what are they converted to and how do I replace them when they are in string format?
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[22:46] scrumlord: any recommendations on a module for uploading files to Amazon S3 on 0.6.11 ?
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[22:46] scrumlord: looked at knox but kept getting 403 errors when i tried using it (is it still maintained for 0.6.x?)
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[22:48] CoverSli1e: scrumlord: I've used it with 0.6.x
[22:49] CoverSli1e: It's really simple
[22:49] CoverSli1e: and shouldn't break with anything unless there's a major http module overhaul
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[22:50] CoverSli1e: scrumlord: one thing I've found is if you're running from a VM, you may have a problem with your system clock
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[22:50] CoverSli1e: Check the output of the 403 error, it'll probably tell you why you got a 403, usually it's because of a time offset problem
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[23:04] scrumlord: Coversli1e: thanks i'll check for time issues
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[23:05] pkrumins: TooTallNate: hey mate, how do you build C++ modules on Windows node?
[23:05] CoverSli1e: very painfully?
[23:05] pkrumins: TooTallNate: we here at Browserling run node 0.4 on cygwin but it's a nightmare, so I'm moving to node 0.6 on windows natively
[23:05] TooTallNate: pkrumins: hey there
[23:05] TooTallNate: well node-gyp aims to make it painless :)
[23:05] pkrumins: TooTallNate: and we got stuff like node-png and node-des, and we have to get those compiled
[23:05] TooTallNate: so give it a shot and let me know how it goes :)
[23:05] CoverSli1e: what do you use to compile?
[23:05] TooTallNate: node-gyp
[23:05] pkrumins: alright, looking.
[23:06] TooTallNate: pkrumins: you're gonna have to migrate the wscript files over to gyp files
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[23:06] CoverSli1e: what's node-gyp use? mingw? msvc?
[23:06] TooTallNate: msvc
[23:06] pkrumins: TooTallNate: roger
[23:06] pkrumins: msvc, not a problem.
[23:06] CoverSli1e: can you use mingw?
[23:07] TooTallNate: CoverSli1e: not currently
[23:07] TooTallNate: but i'd take a pull request :)
[23:07] CoverSli1e: 
ACTION frowny face

[23:07] TooTallNate: i'm not sure if it's possible honestly
[23:07] TooTallNate: maybe using the "make" target
[23:07] TooTallNate: but gyp is tailored to MSVC
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[23:08] ningu: is mingw just in cygwin?
[23:09] pkrumins: ningu: nope
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[23:39] Phoenixz: Anybody here with experience in node-mysql ? I execute a query with a callback function, the callback function gets called, all fine.. I call the query again.. and the callback function never gets called.. Any obvious things I could be doing wrong here?
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[23:53] weyus: Is it a true statement that all of the asynchronicity that is available in Node.js modules ultimately rests upon async I/O libraries from the OS? 
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[23:55] heavyUser: good that i have now created a wrapper for setTimeout/clearTimeout which returns a real unique id for later cancellation, not an un-serializable object like native function do :)
[23:56] heavyUser: non-serializable *
[23:57] Phoenixz: Anybody here with experience in node-mysql ? I execute a query with a callback function, the callback function gets called, all fine.. I call the query again.. and the callback function never gets called.. Any obvious things I could be doing wrong here?
[23:57] heavyUser: i use node-mysql
[23:57] Phoenixz: To make it weirder, a test I just created, does not even once execute the CB... 
[23:57] heavyUser: are u using the latest version
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[23:58] heavyUser: maybe you are using .once instead of .on ?
[23:58] Phoenixz: heavyUser: 0.9.5
[23:58] heavyUser: on the query object
[23:59] Phoenixz: heavyUser: .on? I have read https://github.com/felixge/node-mysql, I dont see .on
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