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[00:54] Brandon_R: hey
[00:55] Brandon_R: guys
[00:55] Brandon_R: what's
[00:55] Brandon_R: up
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[00:56] Brandon_R: are you guys scared?
[00:56] Brandon_R: node.js web servers can be ddosed
[00:58] CoverSlide: just like apache, iis, java servers
[00:58] Brandon_R: i mean
[00:58] CoverSlide: but apparantly catalyst sites are INVINCIBLE
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[00:58] Brandon_R: there is something that v8 does that makes it easier to ddos
[00:58] CoverSlide: only if you store querystring params in a hash
[00:58] sorensen__: 
ACTION resisting the urge to make 'yo momma' jokes

[00:59] Brandon_R: oh
[00:59] Brandon_R: so it's not something an average user should worry about?
[01:00] CoverSlide: well the querystring module does that, which is kind of the de-facto standard
[01:00] CoverSlide: for node at least
[01:00] CoverSlide: and i think express uses it as well
[01:01] CoverSlide: apparently they're patching v8 to circumvent the issue
[01:01] Brandon_R: is learnboost.com aware?
[01:01] Brandon_R: it uses that
[01:01] CoverSlide: there are other methods
[01:01] CoverSlide: like you can set a quesrystring limit
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[01:15] TheJH: mikeal, done :)
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[01:16] mikeal: awesome :)
[01:16] Brandon_R: hi
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[01:46] chenosaurus: hello
[01:47] disappearedng: Wow underscore is pretty nice 
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[01:48] chenosaurus: anyone intersted in testing out a node chat app?
[01:48] hughfdjackson: disappearedng: can't argue there
[01:49] disappearedng: too bad I need to be reminded to use some of the functions out there
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[01:49] disappearedng: hughfdjackson: Do they even have an IRC channel 
[01:49] hughfdjackson: i honestly don't know
[01:49] chenosaurus: i've been using it ton
[01:50] hughfdjackson: it'd be harder for them to have one vs say.. jQuery
[01:50] hughfdjackson: where jquery is applied to lots of situations, underscore has very explicitly defined boundaries
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[01:50] hughfdjackson: if that comparison makes an ounce of sense
[01:50] chenosaurus: #documentcloud has a lot of backbone ppl
[01:51] hughfdjackson: what'd you go in and say?
[01:51] chenosaurus: it's not underscore vs jQ
[01:51] hughfdjackson: 'so, compose.. does.. functional composition.. does it?'
[01:51] hughfdjackson: 'yes'
[01:51] chenosaurus: they work together extremely well
[01:51] hughfdjackson: chenosaurus: i wasn't saying that 
[01:51] chenosaurus: ah
[01:51] hughfdjackson: i was saying that it's hard to have a chatroom for underscore, because the questions are so straightforwards xD
[01:51] qmx: hiya guys, does anyone knows any pointers on having the JST stuff jammit does without 'jammit'?
[01:51] chenosaurus: ah
[01:52] chenosaurus: anyone ever try to push a lot of image data over socket.io?
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[02:17] tab1293: is there anyway to stream a file over socket.io? for example, say webserver A is downloading a large file from webserver B, if a client connects to webserver A is there anyway it can download the file as the webserver is downloading the file? so the websocket on server A would be sending the file as it changes
[02:18] CIA-109: node: 03Ben Noordhuis 07v0.6 * r539598b 10/ test/simple/test-fs-watch.js : test: don't create temp files in fixtures dir - http://git.io/2ij9Pw
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[02:24] VICODAN2: sup
[02:24] leo2007: I tried to compile a x86_64 executable on snow leopard but was unable to. Is that a known limitation?
[02:24] VICODAN2: anyone here know about dreamdust's nirc/socket.io/node.irc project?
[02:26] VICODAN2: hm
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[02:36] Zyclops: hey
[02:37] Zyclops: ok i've never done asyncronous style code without threads before.. and i'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it
[02:37] Zyclops: it seems to make my functions 5 times as big
[02:37] Zyclops: is there anyway to go.. hey run all this code procedurally
[02:37] Zyclops: (the code needs to be procedural within this function)
[02:39] maxogden: Zyclops: make 5 small functions
[02:40] Zyclops: https://gist.github.com/05ea4f932e415196202d << so i've got this code.. this.getDeck is asyncronous.. what should i be doing
[02:41] maxogden: Zyclops: you can pass anonymous functions in as arguments (also known as callbacks)
[02:41] Zyclops: at step e (line 4) i need to run another function that relies on calculateAndSetBonusTime being completed
[02:41] maxogden: or named functions
[02:42] mikeal: you aren't passing callbacks to these functions
[02:42] mikeal: so whoever the caller is doesn't know when they finish
[02:42] Zyclops: ok so my unit test calls
[02:42] Zyclops: reviewNotDue.again();
[02:42] Zyclops: 			expect(reviewNotDue.get('bonus_time')).toEqual(0);
[02:42] maxogden: mikeal: :D
[02:42] Zyclops: what your saying is that i need to go something like reviewNotDue.again(some_callback_function)
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[02:43] VICODAN2: sup
[02:43] maxogden: Zyclops: yep try that
[02:43] VICODAN2: anyone familiar with node.irc and socket.io?
[02:43] mikeal: yes
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[02:43] Zyclops: some_callback_function = function() { expect(reviewNotDue.get('bonus_time')…. }
[02:43] mikeal: then you can decide how many sequential callbacks you do before you resolve it
[02:44] mikeal: and make sure you follow the standard node callback pattern or else you'll hate yourself later
[02:44] mikeal: function (err, results) {}
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[02:44] VICODAN2: mikeal: trying to develop a node.js irc client based on socket.io and node.irc
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[02:44] VICODAN2: we have most of the code developed
[02:44] VICODAN2: just a few bugs to work out
[02:45] VICODAN2: like auto scroll, ctcp, and handling incoming msgs and stuff
[02:45] mikeal: cool
[02:45] VICODAN2: would you like to try it out?
[02:45] mikeal: i can't right now
[02:45] VICODAN2: ok
[02:45] VICODAN2: you think you could help some other time?
[02:46] maxogden: VICODAN2: if your thing is cool it will gain attention through npm/github/twitter
[02:46] mikeal: i'm about to pull my steak out of the water bath and burn the outside with a torch
[02:46] VICODAN2: maxogden: it is cool. it's just not 100% working yet
[02:46] maxogden: mikeal: oh dude how is the sous vide
[02:46] Zyclops: ok at the moment i'm writing client side code… should I still follow that pattern?
[02:46] mikeal: sous vide!
[02:46] VICODAN2: it's not even my code. it's dreamdust's code.
[02:46] mikeal: maxogden: i'm making everything sous vide
[02:46] VICODAN2: do you know him?
[02:46] maxogden: mikeal: i have some jasonsmith halibut in my freezer
[02:46] mikeal: aaron is coming over for NYE and we're going crazy overboard making "white trash" themed food
[02:47] Zyclops: ahh i came in here yesterday.. and asked whether i should be using node.js for a large "this is the entire business" program.. and the recommendation i got was no
[02:47] Zyclops: because node.js is not stable enough yet
[02:47] maxogden: "white trash" == deep fryer
[02:47] mikeal: i'm gonna sous vide hamburgers :)
[02:47] Zyclops: even though it would allow us to use a single language.. is that your guys opinion as well?
[02:47] mikeal: aaron is doing chicken wings, no idea what he's gonna do to em
[02:47] maxogden: Zyclops: https://twitter.com/#!/mranney/status/145778414165569536
[02:48] mikeal: Zyclops: depends on your app
[02:48] mikeal: what does your app do?
[02:48] zomg: If real money depends on the success of your project I wouldn't just rush towards node right away
[02:48] VICODAN2: guess not
[02:48] zomg: Although it is proven to be capable of running real production systems, I would still investigate alternatives
[02:48] Zyclops: syncronises stuff between lots of devices
[02:48] zomg: and finally, have a backup plan
[02:49] maxogden: 
ACTION issues blanket statements in response to broad questions about a specific technology

[02:49] zomg: As with any tech, don't just use it cause it's cool or hip or whatever
[02:49] zomg: imo Before you choose to use node you should know its strengths and weaknesses
[02:49] Zyclops: about 1% of that will be real time (i.e. as fast as possible), the rest is batch… does a whole lot of syncing and merging stuff on the server side. persists stuff to a document db
[02:49] Zyclops: oh yeah.. we need to go with a fairly safe option.. but the entire client side is written in js / html5
[02:50] mikeal: Zyclops: node shines when you need to do lots of IO
[02:51] mikeal: like, one http requests causes multiple calls to multiple databases
[02:51] mikeal: and maybe sends some push notificaitons or something
[02:51] Zyclops: right.. thats pretty much all this system does.. is shift information between multiple devices
[02:51] mikeal: yeah, node is good at that
[02:51] Zyclops: and act as a storage engine.. but the thing is
[02:51] mikeal: in fact, it's so good at that it's probably worth dealing with whatever node might be bad at
[02:51] Zyclops: we are intending to have 100's of thousands of users
[02:51] mikeal: use CouchDB for storage
[02:51] Zyclops: I was thinking of using amazon simpledb
[02:51] mikeal: yeah, voxer has over a million users on node
[02:52] zomg: you could probably have a million users on MUMPS but it would still not make it any good
[02:52] zomg: =)
[02:52] Zyclops: don't have to manage servers.. can just pay amazon more money :)
[02:53] Zyclops: also they're opening datacenters in australia and china.. where most of users are going to be
[02:53] mikeal: i don't have a super high opinion of simpledb
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[02:53] mikeal: but to each his own
[02:53] Zyclops: mikeal: you think it's crap?
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[02:53] mikeal: i think that it does what it does, and if his a ceiling there isn't a way to fix it
[02:53] Zyclops: we've just been writing the client side app
[02:53] maxogden: you should use haskell for china market
[02:53] Zyclops: so we're still open 
[02:53] mikeal: if you hit a ceiling, rahter
[02:53] Zyclops: maxogden: why :)
[02:54] mikeal: maxogden: HAHAHA
[02:54] Zyclops: i did look at haskell and erlang
[02:54] Zyclops: but the issue is all my guys know javascript and ruby
[02:54] maxogden: Zyclops: web scale etc
[02:54] Zyclops: (and some java)
[02:54] zomg: You probably want js or ruby then =)
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[02:55] mikeal: you need someone who is good at node.js
[02:55] mikeal: it's different enough that you need at least someone who is really comfortable, or else things will go badly
[02:55] Zyclops: ruby would be easy.. but i was worried about what happens when we start doing lots of "live" syncing between devices
[02:55] Zyclops: which ruby isin't great at (it can't maintain open websocket connections)
[02:56] zomg: Why couldn't it do that?
[02:56] maxogden: rainbows and unicorns man
[02:56] zomg: Even PHP can do that
[02:56] zomg: =)
[02:56] Zyclops: no idea.. was chatting to guys in ruby irc.. and they said it would be a pain in the ass
[02:56] maxogden: and sunshowers
[02:56] maxogden: fiburs and eventmachine
[02:56] maxogden: lotsa options
[02:56] zomg: Well I don't know if Ruby has any websockets libs out there
[02:56] Zyclops: yeah.. i like the client side.. so easy to make choices
[02:57] zomg: but I don't see any reason why it would be any more pain in the ass than in most other languages
[02:57] populuxe: ruby and websockets has been a nightmare because of the stack. application servers and proxies that just can't hang.
[02:57] populuxe: websockets kinda breaks http, so.
[02:58] zomg: Well I'm running node behind varnish, with websockets, and it works quite fine
[02:58] zomg: I'm no ruby guy so I don't really know about that though so can't say
[02:58] populuxe: yes, I moved to node and socket.io. happiness.
[02:58] populuxe: for that one service which required it.
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[03:03] Zyclops1: is this working
[03:03] Zyclops1: ahh right
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[03:07] RLa: if i have module globally installed i still need to create package.json to make my script to use the module or is just require('module') enough?
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[03:16] TheJH: RLa, you can't require global modules
[03:16] TheJH: RLa, global modules for CLI tools, local installs for require()ing them
[03:16] TheJH: RLa, well, you can mess with NODE_PATH or so to change that, but don't do it
[03:16] RLa: oh i get it
[03:17] RLa: i see there is command npm link <module name>
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[03:17] RLa: where module with that name is installed globally
[03:17] TheJH: RLa, yes, right, that makes a symlink to a global module
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[03:18] RLa: i wonder how this all will play with version control
[03:19] populuxe: treat them as external to your project and you'll be a-okay.
[03:19] TheJH: RLa, http://www.mikealrogers.com/posts/nodemodules-in-git.html - always have a package.json with all dependencies, and for applications, put node_modules in git (without npm link or so)
[03:19] TheJH: populuxe, no, as the article says, deps change pretty fast, so they should be in the repo if you make an app
[03:20] TheJH: so when stuff breaks, git bisect can come to the rescue
[03:20] populuxe: hrmph.
[03:20] TheJH: populuxe, ?
[03:20] populuxe: that seems unfortunate. reading the post.
[03:21] RLa: oh, and still using svn here
[03:21] TheJH: RLa, well, you should switch :P
[03:21] isaacs: RLa: don't check in node_modules for libraries/modules that you intend to *publish* on npm, except in very rare cases.
[03:22] RLa: i have been thinking but changing whole infrastructure is too complex at the moment
[03:22] isaacs: RLa: you *should* check in node_modules of dependencies for thingst hat you you *deploy*, like a website on a server.
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[03:22] RLa: yeah
[03:22] isaacs: RLa: that's the best rule of thumb i've found
[03:22] isaacs: RLa: npm link doesn't play the best with git
[03:22] populuxe: certainly different than in the rails ecosystem. there was a lot of work to avoid that particular requirement for repo churn.
[03:22] isaacs: RLa: you just have a symlink in your repo, not the whole source
[03:23] RLa: populuxe, same for java
[03:24] populuxe: i've actually not checked in node_modules, but have had plenty of dependency pain as a result. this advice makes sense.
[03:24] populuxe: i assume this conventional wisdom will turn at some point.
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[03:27] populuxe: > Some packages push multiple updates per week. As a community, we need to distribute some of the integration testing work. It’s not conceivable for most package maintainers to sit down and test their package will all the new updates that ship for their deps. This is why package maintainers should not version lock, and should not check in their deps.
[03:27] populuxe: hmm.
[03:27] populuxe: :)
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[03:48] nathanielksmith: anyone use directory from flatironjs?
[03:48] danishm: Hi, I am having a problem trying to make jsdom work over http://www.bestbuys.com/
[03:48] danishm: Could anyone help me with that?
[03:48] Nabakin has joined the channel
[03:48] Nabakin: Hi
[03:49] Nabakin: I have a question
[03:49] Nabakin: hello?
[03:50] tjfontaine: it's easier to ask than it is to ask to ask
[03:50] Nabakin: lol k thanks
[03:50] nathanielksmith: s/directory/director
[03:51] nathanielksmith: it routes get requests fine... but seems to refuse to route posts
[03:51] Nabakin: in nodejs when i run anything even the test file with the Hello World message it just displays "..." and when i press enter it displays it again but never says that its running the server
[03:52] nathanielksmith: which seems crazy, and i feel like i must be missing something obvious
[03:52] TheJH: Nabakin, you're typing something like "node scriptname", right?
[03:52] Nabakin: yea
[03:52] TheJH: Nabakin, what operating system?
[03:52] tommyvyo has joined the channel
[03:52] Nabakin: Windows
[03:53] TheJH: Nabakin, ok. So, you opened cmd, right?
[03:53] Nabakin: yes
[03:53] Aria: danishm: What about bestbuys.com? Can't parse it with htmlparser?
[03:53] TheJH: Nabakin, now, in cmd, don't start "node" without args, just start "node script" directly
[03:53] Nabakin: ok
[03:54] danishm: Thanks Aria, when I use jsdom.env() to try to read www.bestbuy.com, I get a page saying access denied
[03:54] TheJH: Nabakin, if you just see "> ", you started node without arguments - you can oly run javascript there
[03:54] TheJH: *only
[03:54] Aria: danishm: Now that sounds like perhaps bestbuy is checking user agents.
[03:54] TheJH: right, user agent
[03:54] danishm: Can I configure user agent in jsdom?
[03:54] Nabakin: ok ill try it give me a sec
[03:54] jamescarr has joined the channel
[03:55] danishm: I tried to look at the documentation on the jsdom github page, couldn't find anything about the agent
[03:56] Nabakin: it still does the same thing
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[03:56] Nabakin: @TheJH it still does the same thing
[03:56] danishm: Moreover, the page seems to load fine when I use urllib2 in python to load
[03:56] TheJH: Nabakin, screenshot?
[03:56] Nabakin: sure
[03:57] windsurf_: anyone use this ORM module? https://github.com/dresende/node-orm when I load one object I can't seem to get it to load the getFoo properly
[03:57] windsurf_: I've got a Session object that hasOne 'user'
[03:58] windsurf_: getUser is returning null but I think that's because when I search for my Session.find I get an obj containing user_id = 0 (rather than 2 like it should as observed using my MySQL client, browsing the table)
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[04:00] Nabakin: TheJH heres the screenshot: http://imgur.com/SCzy2
[04:00] TheJH: Nabakin, don't type "node.exe" before running "node test.js"
[04:01] Nabakin: ok let me try
[04:02] danishm: Looks like my issue is discussed at https://github.com/tmpvar/jsdom/issues/196
[04:02] Nabakin: it didnt work sigh
[04:02] aioue: anyone have strong feelings about mongodb?
[04:03] maxogden: aioue: i asked it out on a date but it lost my number and did know who i was
[04:03] maxogden: didnt*
[04:03] Nabakin: heres the screenshot if you want it TheJH: http://imgur.com/l0XyM
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[04:03] aioue: maxogden: got it
[04:03] TheJH: Nabakin, uh, where is your test.js file?
[04:04] Nabakin: C:\Program Files\nodejs\node_modules\test.js
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[04:05] TheJH: Nabakin, move it out of node_modules
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[04:06] TheJH: Nabakin, run node in the same folder in which your script is
[04:06] Nabakin: ok
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[04:06] Nabakin: THANKYOU SO MUCH
[04:06] TheJH: Nabakin, also, "node" should work everywhere on your system, so don't put scripts in the programfiles folder
[04:07] Nabakin: THANK YOU SO MUCH
[04:07] TheJH: no problem :D
[04:07] Nabakin: THANKYOU THANK YOU THANKYOU
[04:07] Nabakin: lol
[04:07] Nabakin: :]
[04:07] TheJH: I'll go to sleep now, good whatever-it-is-in-your-timezone
[04:07] Nabakin: lol night
[04:08] Nabakin: its 11 in my timezone
[04:08] Nabakin: bye
[04:08] TheJH: 5 here :D (in the morning)
[04:08] Nabakin: ill be leaving too
[04:08] Nabakin: lol
[04:08] Nabakin: wow
[04:08] Nabakin: your up late
[04:10] Nabakin: bye
[04:10] Aria: Augh. fs.watch is fubar on my VPS
[04:10] Aria: Since it doesn't support inotify.
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[04:10] Aria: I think.
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[04:12] aioue: anyone have any strong opinions about mongoose? is there a better option?
[04:12] aioue: I'm not finding it particularly well documented
[04:12] Aria: Oh. This is on the mac. Doh. Anyone else get ENOSYS when using fs.watch on a file on the mac?
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[04:16] zomg: aioue: it has worked quite well for me
[04:16] zomg: and the interface it provides is much simpler to use than the mongodb one
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[04:18] aioue: zomg: any chance you can explain to me why the example on this page is not working for me? http://mongoosejs.com/docs/methods-statics.html … this.find error (non-existent function) from the first code block
[04:18] aioue: *errors
[04:18] zomg: Not sure, should work as far as I can tell
[04:18] aioue: I believe the example is wrong, but I'd like to know what the correct way to do this would be
[04:19] zomg: Are you calling it directly from the schema object?
[04:19] aioue: it works for statics but not for methods
[04:19] aioue: from an instance of the model (I think that's the correct terminology)
[04:19] aioue: exactly copied from the example
[04:19] aioue: the first 2 blocks
[04:20] aioue: obviously an alternative would be to make a static and to pass in the required type
[04:20] aioue: but I'd like to know if it's possibly to perform a find like this starting from an instance
[04:21] zomg: No idea, I've used exactly similar code and it works fine for me
[04:21] aioue: hmm, interesting
[04:21] zomg: Check node/mongo/mongoose versions?
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[04:23] aioue: mongoose 2.4.8, mongodb 0.9.7-3, node 0.4.12
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[04:24] zomg: pretty ancient mongo and node there
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[04:24] aioue: ok I'll update them and see what happens
[04:24] zomg: oh that's your mongodb lib version and not the actual mongodb server version? if so then it's probably ok
[04:25] zomg: Not sure if updating node is gonna have any effect but I guess it's worth a shot :)
[04:25] aioue: mongodb      '0.9.7-3': '2011-12-30T20:05:52.594Z' },
[04:25] mattkime: is there a preferred deferred lib for noders?
[04:25] aioue: seems current
[04:25] zomg: I'm off now but someone else can probably help you more
[04:25] aioue: ok thanks a lot
[04:30] mattkime: promises? deferreds? anyone?
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[04:32] cmr: mattkime: I'm not very experiences with node but I've heard a lot about futures
[04:32] cmr: And Q
[04:32] mattkime: futures
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[04:33] cmr: https://github.com/coolaj86/futures
[04:34] mattkime: i'm trying to wrap my head around q and i'm having some trouble
[04:34] cmr: mattkime: I felt that way about it when I looked at it too!
[04:35] mattkime: ug, REALLY want to discuss this but i'm on the phone
[04:35] mattkime: brb
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[04:39] mattkime: yeah, q was inspiring me to write my own lib
[04:40] mattkime: my main concern is how sets of promises work together
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[04:40] mattkime: well, i guess i have my reading material on that topic
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[04:42] slajax: anyone know if you can override node_modules for npm install dir?
[04:42] chenosaurus: what do u mean by override
[04:43] slajax: i mean set the default installation location of sources in packages.json to install to lib/ instead of node_modules/
[04:43] chenosaurus: oh 
[04:43] chenosaurus: -g option
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[04:43] itsdman: hi there...
[04:43] chenosaurus: npm install -g <module>
[04:43] itsdman: i have a bit of a noob question... can someone help me?
[04:43] mattkime: hello itsdman
[04:43] mattkime: we'll only know if you ask
[04:44] itsdman: i've looked on the net already and can't find out
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[04:44] itsdman: ok so i've installed the osx package for node.js, then wanted to move onto install node.io
[04:44] slajax: hmm chenosaurus - not seeing that in help menu?
[04:44] slajax: wouldn't it require a install dir?
[04:44] slajax: npm install -g lib <module>
[04:44] itsdman: i got a error installing
[04:44] chenosaurus: sudo?
[04:45] mattkime: what is the error?
[04:45] itsdman: npm ERR! error installing node.io@0.4.6
[04:45] itsdman: npm ERR! error rolling back node.io@0.4.6 Error: EACCES, permission denied '/usr/local/lib/node_modules/node.io/.npmignore' npm ERR! Error: EACCES, permission denied '/usr/local/lib/node_modules/node.io/.npmignore' npm ERR! Report this *entire* log at: npm ERR!     <http://github.com/isaacs/npm/issues> npm ERR! or email it to: npm ERR!     <npm-@googlegroups.com> npm ERR!  npm ERR! System Darwin 11.2.0 npm ERR! command "node" "/usr
[04:45] Aria: What are the permissions on that directory?
[04:46] chenosaurus: npm doesnt have permission to write to that dir
[04:47] itsdman: drwxr-xr-x
[04:47] Aria: Bingo. So sudo the install, or if it's a single user workstation, consider chowning it to yourself.
[04:47] itsdman: sobasically i put in terminal i typed in "npm install -g node.io"
[04:48] itsdman: hmm ok let me try sudo ing
[04:48] chenosaurus: sudo should do it
[04:48] Aria: Any reason you're installing that globally?
[04:49] itsdman: i think i read it on their website...actually i didnt' rtfm - https://github.com/chriso/node.io/wiki/Installation
[04:49] Aria: Ah, it does provide a command to run. Carry on!
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[04:51] slajax: chenosaurus -g installs globally, I want to add a path to module.paths and have it override node_modules as the default install location.
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[04:51] itsdman: ok ... so now i am just trying to run a sample file using node.io but it gives me another error.  
[04:51] chenosaurus: cool
[04:51] itsdman: node.js:201         throw e; // process.nextTick error, or 'error' event on first tick               ^ Error: Cannot find module 'node.io'     at Function._resolveFilename (module.js:334:11)     at Function._load (module.js:279:25)     at Module.require (module.js:357:17)     at require (module.js:368:17)     at Object.<anonymous> (/Users/skyla/node_projects/demo_app/keywords.js:1:76)     at Module._compile (module.js:432:26)     a
[04:51] chenosaurus: anyone wanna help me test out a chat project I've been workng on?  http://chat.io
[04:51] itsdman: makes me think that node.io wasn't in fact loaded
[04:52] itsdman: or installed properly
[04:52] slajax: ie require.paths.unshift('./lib'); + modules.paths.unshift('./lib')
[04:52] lz1: Happy New Years Eve Eve!!
[04:55] itsdman: oh hold on i think i might have foudn my issue
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[04:56] mattkime: flow-control/deferred libs are today's xhr/dom query libs five years ago
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[05:24] TheFuzzball: Haha, looks like doing a post request to Choreographer makes it crash.
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[06:19] jlank: just found ryan's strange loop 2010 talk in my old flip video library, didn't even know I had it... 
[06:19] cmr: jlank: 'strange loop'?
[06:20] jlank: it's a conference in st louis
[06:20] jlank: first conference I went to, total n00b style
[06:20] cmr: Ah
[06:20] jlank: i'm still a n00b, but I was surprised to find it
[06:21] jlank: it's the only thing I recorded
[06:21] jlank: from the weekend
[06:21] cmr: Is it worth watching?
[06:21] jlank: i literally just found it
[06:21] jlank: so, i'll watch it tomorrow and see
[06:21] jlank: it's from 9/13/10
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[07:30] sx2020: whas up everyone
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[07:33] dragon: Everything that's not down!
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[07:39] lz1: happy new years eve.. ?
[07:40] phluffy: lol, I guess *technically* it is... back atcha, lzl!
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[08:24] deeprogram: what's good module to handle mysql pool ?
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[09:47] Shaunzie: zomg! ipfw made me sauce myself…..
[09:47] Shaunzie: sudo ipfw add 80 fwd 127.0.0.1,3000 tcp from any to me 80
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[09:47] Shaunzie: <3
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[10:01] CIA-109: libuv: 03Igor Zinkovsky 07v0.6 * r4d1d02f 10/ (include/uv-private/uv-win.h src/win/fs-event.c): windows: ensure that uv_fs_event callbacks have long names - http://git.io/c-VsPA
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[10:13] crazyfr: hi all, it took me time to find the right simple updated and fast howto to install node.js + npm https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Installation
[10:14] crazyfr: it will be nice for the next one if you can redirect all the old one on this one. btw, i am not confortable yet with github, maybe it's why.
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[10:15] crazyfr: thanks for the great work btw :)
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[10:20] CIA-109: node: 03isaacs 07v0.6 * r8e57398 10/ lib/repl.js : Fix #2034 repl message for .clear when useGlobal=true - http://git.io/eH4WxA
[10:24] simpleton: how does node.js render views?
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[10:40] jredville: simpleton: node.js doesn't render views. You need to either write the html directly to the socket, or use a framework for it
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[11:07] hotroot: Express looks so amazing! The only downside is that now I have a 0% chance of learning PHP, which is easier to get a job in =P
[11:07] hotroot: Or at least more jobs available, not the same thing I suppose
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[11:13] simpleton: jredville I thought so, but that doesn't work when I have 2 different html files
[11:13] simpleton: jredville i.e. index.html and new.html - it always renders the contents of index.html
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[11:32] hotroot: What is the point at which using socket.io for communication is better then AJAX? How many requests per X amount of time? Going to start a turn based game, so I'm wondering if at ~1 request a second socket.io is even worth the effort
[11:33] SubStack: latency is much better with socket.io
[11:33] hotroot: It's turn based though. Up to ~100ms lag it really wont matter
[11:34] SubStack: probably it's fine
[11:34] hotroot: I'm nerdgasming about express though, this is the first chance I've given it, and I'm reading the guide and it's amazing
[11:34] hotroot: So thankful I only learned the very basics of PHP, just enough to appreciate how much better express is
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[11:35] Nuck: So
[11:35] Nuck: I've started writing unit tests
[11:35] Nuck: I gave in.
[11:35] Nuck: And I have to say
[11:35] Nuck: I love it.
[11:35] Nuck: This feels great to unit test my code :D
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[11:36] Nuck: All thanks to tjholowaychuk's Mocha testing lib.
[11:36] Nuck: And Should.
[11:36] Nuck: I finally found a unit test lib that I appreciated
[11:36] Nuck: And now all 22 of my tests thus far are passing :3
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[11:40] SubStack: bwahaha now the redesign can finally go live
[11:41] SubStack: tests are pretty great
[11:41] SubStack: Nuck: and if you need browser tests, check out testling!
[11:41] SubStack: although it's written in a node-tap style but it's possible to write mocha adaptors
[11:41] Nuck: SubStack: Yeah, Mocha does work in the browser too
[11:42] Nuck: SubStack: And I know about Testling.  I knew about it before it was cool.
[11:42] Nuck: 
ACTION hipsters

[11:42] SubStack: I knew about it before it existed!
[11:42] hotroot: =P
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[11:43] hotroot: Some day when node replaces PHP we'll have some stories to brag about xP
[11:46] SubStack: it's rare for technologies to replace one another
[11:46] SubStack: they just wax and wane
[11:47] SubStack: they get replaced when two approaches solve the same problem and one of them is much better
[11:47] Nuck: Like when Linux replaced every UNIX distro ever ;D
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[11:47] Nuck: From solaris to .*
[11:48] wingie: how could you require() different files in a npm package?
[11:48] wingie: i recall there was a way to do so before: require("mylib/file1")
[11:48] martin_sunset: Nuck: they had it coming. Still remember the days I had to beg sco to sell me unix for several grand. 
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[11:49] Nuck: martin_sunset: haha
[11:49] martin_sunset: Nuck I seriously had to track down the right person for days....
[11:49] hotroot: Speaking of linux, I'm tempted to switch over to Mint Debian, but I have so much shit installed right now on Fedora =/
[11:49] Nuck: hotroot: Stick to Fedora
[11:49] Nuck: Mint sucks
[11:49] Nuck: It's slow and bloaty
[11:50] hotroot: I like Mint
[11:50] Nuck: And not as good as they try to act
[11:50] hotroot: I've used it before, the regular version
[11:50] wingie: who likes ubuntu?
[11:50] hotroot: The ubuntu core just hates this PC, it refuses to install no matter what I try, so I'm using Fedora, but tempted to use Debian
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[11:53] Nuck: SubStack: Why would I use Testling instead of PhantomJS?
[11:53] Nuck: Because it's testing on more browsers?
[11:55] SubStack: Nuck: phantom is only chrome
[11:55] SubStack: well, headless webkit
[11:56] Nuck: SubStack: so the crossbrowserliness?
[11:56] SubStack: yep
[11:56] SubStack: also testling is much easier to use :p
[11:57] Nuck: IDK
[11:57] Nuck: Phantom's pretty damn easy :P
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[12:05] ranza_: AAA_awright: Hello sir. I got my indexer to work but i never fixed the read error though. I dont think there is a fix for it. Must be the files thats currupt. Anyhow, heres the source https://gist.github.com/1540109
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[12:09] martin_sunset: Guys, I am looking for a robust and working cookie based session store for express/connect. Is there a recommended one that people have used in production?
[12:11] hotroot: Cookie sessions? Weren't those deemed insecure like, 10 years ago?
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[12:12] martin_sunset: hotroot: You encrypt them of course
[12:12] hotroot: Still, if you get the cookie you can log in as them
[12:13] hotroot: Doesn't express have regular sessions that you can just extend the time limit to? Seems safer
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[12:17] martin_sunset: hotroot: Dunno if express sessions are cookie less, if not hen the login point is moot and it just comes down to where to store she session data.
[12:18] hotroot: I suppose it cant be perfect like how TCP sockets do it
[12:18] hotroot: New to the backend web world myself, so my advice probably isn't the best actually =P
[12:19] martin_sunset: hotroot: No worries
[12:19] martin_sunset:  Guess 
[12:19] hotroot: ?
[12:20] martin_sunset: Most of the west coast is asleep, maybe Ihave more luck in a couple of hours
[12:20] hotroot: Yeah, 4 am here
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[12:28] stride: yeah, putting the session data into each link in the page is far more secure I hear. wut?
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[13:08] wingie: anyone here who knows how you could require a sub file like require("mylib/sublib") with npm?
[13:08] wingie: or is that feature gone?
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[13:43] sylvinus: hi! How can I have a list of leftovers callbacks that are preventing my node process from exiting ?
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[14:10] TheJH: sylvinus, I don't think that's easy to do
[14:10] sylvinus: TheJH: difficult but possible ?
[14:11] TheJH: sylvinus, however, it's probably a network connection - try "netstat --tcp -n -p | grep node"
[14:11] sylvinus: let me try
[14:11] sylvinus: i have to convert that to mac format :)
[14:12] TheJH: :D
[14:14] sylvinus: TheJH: nice!! seems to be my mongodb socket
[14:14] sylvinus: thx a lot
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[14:23] sylvinus: TheJH: okay there's something else, my process has no more open files but is still not exiting
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[14:23] sylvinus: it's a jasmine test where I start and then close() an express server
[14:23] sylvinus: do you have another idea?
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[15:00] Brandon_R: hi
[15:00] Brandon_R: what's up guys
[15:00] Rob: Brandon_R, i'm mulling ideas for a MUSH design
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[15:01] Brandon_R: what's that
[15:01] Rob: err if I said it was very similar to a MUD would that help?
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[15:08] Brandon_R: nope rob
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[15:16] plow: hi, got a general question, is it possible to add say C/C++ or Java or other language libraries and interact with them natively in node?
[15:16] igl: plow: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.6.6/api/addons.html
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[15:17] plow: igl: thanks, is that a new feature?
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[15:17] igl: nope
[15:18] plow: igl: is it non-trivial, could I just drop in a C++ library from somewhere without any knowledge of C++? I expect the answer is no
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[15:19] pksunkara: plow: no
[15:19] igl: yes, "no" :)
[15:21] Brandon_R: hi plow
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[15:21] Brandon_R: and igl
[15:21] Brandon_R: and pksunkara
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[15:21] Brandon_R: what are you guys' texteditors
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[15:24] tuhoojabotti: notepad
[15:24] tuhoojabotti: mulle ei oo vielkää vastattu. :E
[15:25] tuhoojabotti: oops
[15:25] tuhoojabotti: wrong windows
[15:25] tuhoojabotti: -s
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[15:35] devongovett: my review of badass js in 2011 is up and if you could spare an up vote, I'd be much obliged: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3411015
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[15:37] relix: hey guys, I'm trying to run my node.js app on heroku
[15:37] relix: but after I do var server = http.createServer(...).listen(process.env.PORT), server is 'undefined'
[15:38] relix: no errors are thrown (until I try to use server)
[15:38] relix: any ideas what could be wrong?
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[15:39] mattkime: show us the code
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[15:40] relix: http://pastebin.com/t5cq9Up9
[15:40] relix: this is a copy+paste from the "heroku run node" repl on heroku
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[15:42] relix: I think I might be doing something wrong because when I try to run the same code again, it throws an address already in use error, proving that the first httpserver is working
[15:42] relix: however, if I run that same code in my local node repl it doesn't return undefined but rather object
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[15:47] CIA-109: libuv: 03Igor Zinkovsky 07v0.6 * r43e3ac5 10/ (src/win/fs.c test/test-fs.c test/test-list.h): 
[15:47] CIA-109: libuv: windows: uv_fs_rename to replace the new file if it exists
[15:47] CIA-109: libuv: fixes #283 - http://git.io/6EtsDQ
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[15:50] jyp_cloud: happy new year~~~
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[16:00] TheFuzzball: How do I authenticate against basic/digest HTTP auth in XHR?
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[16:19] eliasp: coming from Perl/Ruby, I'm having a little trouble with JS' variable scoping: http://pastie.org/3102336
[16:19] eliasp: why do I get in l.20 the correct length, while l.23 returns 0?
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[16:21] medice: how does this have anything to do with variable scoping
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[16:22] eliasp: hmm, it doesn't? I somehow felt that the usage of the anomynous function in exec_run() messes with the variable scope, but then it is caused by something else... 
[16:22] aGHz: It's the control flow...
[16:23] aGHz: Line 20 is in the anonymous function you pass to exec_run
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[16:23] aGHz: it gets called asynchronously, I imagine, when "pactl list" returns its output
[16:23] aGHz: But that time, line 23 already had time to run
[16:24] medice: aye
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[16:24] eliasp: hmm, ok... this explains a lot (order of console.log output) ;)
[16:24] aGHz: :D
[16:24] aGHz: remember, almost everything in node is asynch
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[16:25] aGHz: (that means callbacks get executed when certain things happen, not where they appear in the code)
[16:25] medice: so you might want to redesign your function take a callback too
[16:25] medice: since it's dependant on another event
[16:26] eliasp: aGHz: ok, looks like I'll have to read a bit more about Node's async design/callbacks
[16:26] eliasp: aGHz: this helped me a lot, thx
[16:26] aGHz: eliasp: welcome :)
[16:26] medice: function(type, callback)
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[16:27] medice: exec_run(.... function(blah) { callback(return_argument) })
[16:27] medice: or something
[16:27] eliasp: medice: ok
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[16:40] euoia: quick one: what database / data store are most people using with nodejs?
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[16:41] AviMarcus: euoia, I'm curious as to that, too.
[16:41] RLa: http://search.npmjs.org/ <- is it possible to get more than 20 first matches?
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[16:41] RLa: i need to find out which versions of package "request" are there available
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[16:42] RLa: but since there are so many packages containing word request i'm unable to do it
[16:42] euoia: AviMarcus: I'm currently trying to work with mongodb through mongoose and I'm not having a great deal of fun. I think mongodb is fine but mongoose is giving me a headache with lack of documentation and support
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[16:43] RLa: nvm, i hacked around it by using url magic
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[16:55] josh: exit
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[17:08] medice: RLa: "npm search foobar"
[17:09] RLa: thanks!
[17:09] medice: not sure what was used to view different versions though
[17:10] medice: npm view foobar ?
[17:10] RLa: btw, i need function numbers to create package.json
[17:10] tuhoojabotti: foobar2000 ftw
[17:11] RLa: version*
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[18:25] bitbit: Hi, where can I get a list of nodes core modules? In the documentation, it says "Node has several modules compiled into the binary. These modules are described in greater detail elsewhere in this documentation." -- http://nodejs.org/docs/latest/api/modules.html#core_Modules
[18:27] mbrevoort has joined the channel
[18:27] bitbit: specifically, I'm looking for the git module
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[18:33] RLa: how do you get that there is git module?
[18:33] marcello3d: bitbit: I don't think there is git core module
[18:33] marcello3d: this is the list of core modules: http://nodejs.org/docs/latest/api/index.html
[18:34] RLa: you might want simply invoke git utility with child_process
[18:34] bitbit: I've assumed there is one after going over the example and code here: https://github.com/creationix/node-git
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[18:36] marcello3d: bitbit: that's the source for a git module, but it's not part of node
[18:37] marcello3d: if you clone the source into your project's node_modules folder you can use it like they show in the readme
[18:37] marcello3d: or if it's on npm, you can install it that way, too
[18:39] bitbit: marcello3d: What I mean is, in the example, it says var Git = require("git"). And there's no file named git in the source
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[18:40] russfrank: bitbit: because node-git isn't a core module
[18:41] TheFuzzball: What do people think of socket.io?
[18:41] TheFuzzball: Is it any good?
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[18:41] russfrank: TheFuzzball: it looks really neat!
[18:42] russfrank: i've been ooking for an excuse to try it out
[18:42] russfrank: ie 5.5 support is pretty nuts
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[18:42] TheFuzzball: I like the event-based model, it's very clever.
[18:44] bitbit: Where did this trend of .io domains come from? They're so expensive
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[18:45] TheFuzzball: io makes sense for socket, given input/output
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[18:45] bitbit: of cource, but have you seen the pricing?
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[18:45] TheFuzzball: nope
[18:45] TheFuzzball: How expensive are they?
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[18:46] bitbit: EU residents �60.00
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[18:47] TheFuzzball: £60 for what? A year?
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[18:47] bitbit: yes
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[18:47] TheFuzzball: Ouch
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[18:47] bitbit: I really wanted one for my project but its way too much
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[18:50] TheFuzzball: So you're just jealous then :)
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[18:53] bitbit: well, more confused by the type of people running these websites... I guess they're all rich
[18:53] TheFuzzball: I've only seen socket.io
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[18:56] zomg: 60 GBP a year is hardly something that would be hard for most people to afford
[18:56] zomg: but yes, compared to other domains it is pretty damn expensive
[18:56] bitbit: theres hook.io qr.io c9.io
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[18:57] zomg: Yeah there's a bunch of those
[18:57] TheFuzzball: It's only £5 for a .com for a year.
[18:58] zomg: If you want domain privacy option for that and such it's a bit more than that though
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[18:58] zomg: And you usually would want the privacy option I'd guess =)
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[19:00] igl: happy new year nodelers
[19:00] tuhoojabotti: noodels
[19:00] tuhoojabotti: noodles*
[19:00] tuhoojabotti: nodules
[19:00] tuhoojabotti: it's still 2100 here
[19:01] bitbit: how long have I slept
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[19:13] tuhoojabotti: I slept from 8 am to 3pm
[19:13] tuhoojabotti: problems?
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[19:39] RLa: is it just me or vows does not actually accept callback in run method?
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[20:29] taky: lala
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[20:32] orospakr: hey, is there a good relation-aware REST resource client for node?  I'd written one for the browser a little while ago, and I could adapt it, but I can't believe there isn't a popular one yet for Node.
[20:33] disappearedng has joined the channel
[20:34] xerox: express-resource
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[20:40] euoia: are there any other good q/a resources for nodejs I should know about? As busy as this channel is (659 members) it's not particularly lively
[20:40] euoia: or that just because it is the holidays?
[20:40] marcello3d: probably
[20:40] marcello3d: a lot of people idle and join in if they see something interesting
[20:40] euoia: fair enough
[20:41] Cheery: I think it's time to make a first node.js app for real.
[20:41] Cheery: (for me)
[20:41] euoia: good luck :)
[20:42] Dreamer3 has joined the channel
[20:42] Cheery: I need a web publishing platform that I can customize at will.
[20:43] RLa: you could start with express
[20:43] Cheery: if you know about helpful tools for doing that, I listen. .)
[20:43] Cheery: well sounds valid.
[20:44] orospakr: xerox, that seems to be a server, not a client. ;)
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[20:47] Cheery: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/528245 <- seems like okay.
[20:47] Cheery: I think I'll read some stuff first a bit to see what I have there actually.
[20:48] Cheery: alright.
[20:49] Cheery: other st uff I probably need
[20:49] Cheery: in priority list. .)
[20:50] Cheery: storage for some posts.
[20:50] CarterL has joined the channel
[20:50] Cheery: and files
[20:50] mattgifford has joined the channel
[20:51] Cheery: would be good if it allowed revisions of sort and some form of searches.
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[20:55] _jzl: Hi everyone, what's the best way to connect Node.js to a LAMP stack?
[20:56] Lingerance: In what way?
[20:57] Lingerance: Add it to the stack or make it interface with the stack?
[20:57] _jzl: I need two way communication between my PHP scripts and Node.js
[20:57] _jzl: Lingerance, either
[20:57] _jzl: I could use an UNIX socket, but that seems extensive 
[20:57] Lingerance: 1) mod_proxy or put a proxy infron of Apache and node.js
[20:58] Lingerance: 2) there's nothing standard, you could use a Message Queue, or some kind of RPC system, or have a centralized process that both interact with instead of using the DB directly
[20:59] _jzl: Lingerance, hm... how do you recommend I go at making a message queue?
[20:59] russfrank: _jzl: a unix socket!
[20:59] russfrank: unix sockets aren't all that extensive
[20:59] Lingerance: 
ACTION doesn't use MQs

[21:00] _jzl: I presume it has to be stored somewhere both Node.js and PHP can access 
[21:00] russfrank: you could use a database
[21:00] omenar has joined the channel
[21:00] russfrank: but that's already "bigger than" a unix socket
[21:00] SubStack: http?
[21:01] _jzl: russfrank, I was thinking an mysql mem table
[21:01] _jzl: russfrank, well, is there a standard protocol for PHP <-> Node.js communication?
[21:01] Lingerance: No
[21:01] SubStack: using a database for rpc isn't usually a good idea
[21:02] SubStack: pretty sure mysql doesn't have anything like a _changes feed
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[21:03] russfrank: there's always dnode!
[21:03] russfrank: 
ACTION grins

[21:03] SubStack: there's a dnode-php even
[21:03] russfrank: yeah, that's what I was thinking of
[21:03] russfrank: it's a pretty clean solution if rpc will fit your communication needs
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[21:05] _jzl: RushPL, does node.js have support for rpc?
[21:05] _jzl: russfrank*
[21:06] insin: 
ACTION wonders about Redis' pub/sub

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[21:07] _jzl: hm... k, I guess I'll go with the dnode option
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[21:09] nakkor: I am looking through the docs for mongoose-auth (http://goo.gl/wXcgP), and I don't really get what is happening with 'User' in this line: var UserSchema = new Schema({}), User;
[21:10] zomg: nakkor: nothing
[21:10] nakkor: is it just declaring?
[21:10] zomg: Yeah
[21:11] nakkor: alright, that makes more sense.  Thanks
[21:12] zomg: np
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[21:18] mattkime: whats your fav solution for flow control/deferred/promises?
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[21:26] russfrank: mattkime: https://github.com/caolan/async
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[21:27] xerox: orospakr: the client is the browser :D
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[21:29] orospakr: xerox, yeah, I want to consume a RESTful service from a node app. ;)
[21:29] xerox: uhm
[21:30] xerox: I always write my own thing around the 'request' module
[21:30] orospakr: you know, like what ActiveResource does in the rails world.
[21:30] orospakr: xerox, yeah, that's what I'm about to do
[21:30] xerox: it's just try request try json.parse, catch, catch
[21:30] xerox: would be nice if there was a module to automate this tho
[21:30] xerox: maybe there is, who knows
[21:30] orospakr: well, more than that.  I want relationships to work, too.
[21:31] xerox: fancy
[21:31] orospakr: I've already written code for this in the browser, although when I didn't know JS quite as well as now.
[21:31] orospakr: so yeah, gonna clean it up, refactor a bit, and use request and underscore instead of Prototype.
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[21:33] xerox: good idea
[21:33] xerox: you might want to publish it on npm
[21:33] mde: orospakr: I was working on something like that for Geddy, actually.
[21:34] boltR_ has joined the channel
[21:34] mde: The models/validations are already x-environment.
[21:34] mde: But the mapper/query API just didn't provide enough value for all the work involved.
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[21:36] orospakr: mde, ah, cool.
[21:37] orospakr: mde, mapper/query API from what? From geddy?  Were you trying to make a REST resource connector that sat behind some of Geddy's abstractions?
[21:37] mde: When the model comes out of multiple data-sources, or API calls, trying to write a unified AR-like ORM-layer gets way, way harder.
[21:37] mde: Yes, the query-API for the Geddy model stuff. 
[21:38] mde: Geddy already does normal RESTful routes, content-negotiation, etc., on the server-side.
[21:39] orospakr: mde, oh, interesting. you're directly looking at the problem of a model system that can relate data between multiple sources at once? you've got my attention :)
[21:39] orospakr: mde, oh, you're the *author* of geddy. neat!
[21:40] mde: Yes. 
[21:40] mde: Yes, so v0.1 actually did very basic hasMany, belongsTo, find by id and type.
[21:40] mde: But it was all a hack, because the data-source was assumed to be some sort of document-store.
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[21:42] orospakr: mde, I've already written my own little resource thing on top of cradle, too.  I'm investigating yours now, though!
[21:43] mde: I've ripped out all the client-side stuff for v0.2. It really just tries to do minimal model-definition and validation. 
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[21:44] mde: But it would be awesome if it could do more, in a sane and Node-idiomatic way. 
[21:44] orospakr: btw, the README link on https://github.com/mde/geddy/wiki/ is broken.
[21:44] mde: Thanks. :) Ah, I changed it from .markdown to .md
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[21:55] Brandon_R: Hey guys
[21:55] Brandon_R: what's up
[21:55] Brandon_R: Sofia
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[22:07] euoia: mongodb or couchdb?
[22:07] richardr: auoia: mongodb
[22:07] orospakr: euoia, couchdb
[22:07] Sorella has joined the channel
[22:07] orospakr: ;)
[22:07] euoia: :)
[22:08] orospakr: I think I win by virtue of spelling your name right.
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[22:08] Brandon_R: Hey guys
[22:08] euoia: I mostly care about ease-of-use from node
[22:08] Brandon_R: Which is faster? mongodb or scaladb
[22:08] euoia: rather than performance
[22:08] orospakr: euoia, I've been pretty happy with the cradle module for couchdb.
[22:08] euoia: scalability etc
[22:08] orospakr: npm install cradle
[22:09] Brandon_R: i mean couchdb
[22:09] euoia: will give it a go
[22:09] richardr: euoia: depends on your needs, decide for yourself: http://www.mongodb.org/display/DOCS/Comparing+Mongo+DB+and+Couch+DB
[22:09] euoia: I read that
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[22:09] orospakr: richardr, not a biased source at all ;)
[22:09] richardr: orospakr: :-)
[22:09] orospakr: actually, it's not a bad one. I've read it, too.
[22:09] euoia: my real question is which has the best set of tools and which has the best supported node libraries
[22:10] orospakr: cradle is pretty nice.
[22:10] richardr: Both have well supported node libraries I believe
[22:10] orospakr: yeah, they do.
[22:10] euoia: I have been struggling a bit with mongoose
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[22:11] richardr: euoia: then see if you like cradle
[22:11] Brandon_R: that is a very unbaised article
[22:11] richardr: (for couch)
[22:11] euoia: will give it a go
[22:11] Brandon_R: written by the makers of mongodb
[22:12] richardr: Anyone have the latest HTML5 boilerplate written in Jade?
[22:12] richardr: (2.0*)
[22:15] eastc has joined the channel
[22:16] Brandon_R: yes
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[22:20] Brandon_R: do u need it?
[22:20] richardr: Brandon_R: yes please
[22:20] eastc: any recommendations for some good node.js books
[22:20] eastc: or tuts
[22:20] Brandon_R: nodetuts.com
[22:21] Brandon_R: the docs/api
[22:21] richardr: Brandon_R: I'm using Expressling, just a small boilerplate for node.js applications but it seems to use an outdated HTML5 boilerplate
[22:21] Brandon_R: taking a look at socket.io and other high valued projects on github
[22:21] Brandon_R: checking out the node.js npm registry
[22:21] Brandon_R: the github node.js wiki
[22:22] Brandon_R: what do you mean outdated?
[22:22] eastc: what's the difference between a boilerplate and just running express to install the basic framework
[22:22] eastc: never truly understood that
[22:23] richardr: eastc: not much, just has a couple things installed to save a small amount of time
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[22:23] eastc: richardr: hmm...like what?
[22:23] richardr: eastc: mongodb, mongoose, jade, stylus, express, maybe a basic folder structure and seperation of settings, etc ...
[22:24] eastc: ah i see
[22:24] eastc: so it installs all the dependencies for you
[22:27] richardr: it's an opinionated bundle of 3rd party software on top of Express ;)
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[22:27] Brandon_R: ok
[22:27] Brandon_R: done let me upload them to megaupload
[22:29] richardr: euoia: depending on your app, you may want to consider using redis for your data store as well
[22:31] caffine has joined the channel
[22:31] richardr: What are the advantages of using Node over just handwritten HTML? Plain HTML is certainly easier to write, and more readable
[22:32] richardr: Jade* sorry for Node
[22:33] euoia: richardr: thanks, I'll check it out
[22:33] euoia: richardr: I wondered this as well. I'm totally comfortable writing plain HTML and am not totally convinced by jade
[22:33] Brandon_R: you get to use function
[22:33] Brandon_R: s
[22:33] Brandon_R: like loop
[22:33] Brandon_R: and auto escape
[22:34] Brandon_R: richard i'm afraid i won't be able to give you the boilerplate code
[22:34] euoia: richardr: if you like you can just use the templating features of jade
[22:34] richardr: Brandon_R: How come?
[22:34] euoia: richardr: you can put plain html in a jade template
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[22:34] Brandon_R: megaupload is being frisky
[22:35] Brandon_R: stuck on 99%\
[22:35] euoia: richardr: I considered mustache instead of jade for this reason, but I haven't spent long with it
[22:35] richardr: Brandon_R: pastie.org
[22:35] Brandon_R: those websites are blocked in my country
[22:35] mde: Mustache is fine, if you want religious separation of data and logic, but I'm mostly happy with plain EJS.
[22:36] richardr: mde: Haha, you summed up my experience with Mustache
[22:36] Brandon_R: what is the fastest templating solution out there
[22:36] Brandon_R: with support for caching etcx
[22:36] richardr: mde: While separation was cool, it slowed development down a lot. Maybe just takes a bit of getting used to 
[22:37] mde: Handlebars is supposed to fix some of that, but at some point you have yet another programming language to learn.
[22:37] mde: richardr: Right, exactly.
[22:37] Brandon_R: I want to write fib web apps
[22:38] Brandon_R: what would be the best templating engine to use
[22:38] Brandon_R: mde
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[22:38] mde: Brandon_R: Yessir?
[22:39] Brandon_R: what country do you currently reside in?
[22:39] mde: I live in San Francisco, in the US.
[22:39] Brandon_R: and what is your favorite ide/texteditor
[22:39] Brandon_R: nice
[22:39] mde: I use Vim.
[22:39] Brandon_R: prefect place for a programmer
[22:39] mde: Yes, lots of interesting stuff happening here. :)
[22:39] mde: Brandon_R: How about you?
[22:39] Brandon_R: is the cost of living high?
[22:40] Brandon_R: md
[22:40] mde: Ah, nice. 
[22:40] mde: Yes, the cost is pretty high, but salaries are a bit higher.
[22:40] Brandon_R: what do you do?
[22:40] Brandon_R: just js or more low level stuff like c/c++ etc 
[22:40] mde: I'm a JavaScript programmer, working for Yammer.
[22:41] Brandon_R: how much money do you make?
[22:41] mde: No low-level stuff, but both server and client JS.
[22:41] mde: I make enough to live comfortably out here in SF.
[22:41] mde: Any good developer can, there's tremendous competition for hiring here.
[22:41] martin_sunset: Mde, for someone moving to SF, what neighborhoods would you recommend? 
[22:42] Brandon_R: is a college degree required for jobs or can you get by with "experience"
[22:42] mde: East Bay is pretty popular, convenient for commuting to the city. A lot of guys take CalTrain into the city from down the Peninsula.
[22:42] Brandon_R: kool
[22:43] mde: I live in a little city called Pacifica. It's a 20-min. drive into the city.
[22:43] Brandon_R: how long have you been living there?
[22:43] mde: Almost three years now. I moved from Houston.
[22:43] Brandon_R: nice
[22:43] Brandon_R: a texan huh?
[22:43] martin_sunset: Mde thx
[22:43] Brandon_R: born and raised?
[22:43] mde: Yes, born and raised. :)
[22:43] mde: martin_sunset: Sure. 
[22:43] Brandon_R: lol such a texan thing to say
[22:44] mde: Brandon_R: A bunch of the best engineers at Yammer are high school dropouts.
[22:44] mde: I have a degree in English.
[22:44] Squeese has joined the channel
[22:44] mde: Nobody gives a shit if you do good work.
[22:44] Brandon_R: oh i want to go to college
[22:44] Brandon_R: just not for computer science
[22:44] Brandon_R: physics
[22:44] Brandon_R: ahh
[22:44] mde: Right on. 
[22:44] Brandon_R: english is probably the one thing i cannot learn
[22:45] mde: A dude we just hired has a PhD in History.
[22:45] Brandon_R: nice
[22:45] Brandon_R: it's nice to have a diverse workplace
[22:45] fbartho has joined the channel
[22:45] mde: Yammer is the most diverse I've ever seen -- backgrounds, race, gender. All of it. :)
[22:45] Brandon_R: do you do the hiring?
[22:46] Brandon_R: do you guys ask weird questions? or straight up questions
[22:46] mde: No, but we all have say-so through the process for any prospect for our team.
[22:46] Brandon_R: one company asked "How many concurrent users are online on facebook on tuesday?"
[22:46] mde: We don't ask those silly hypothetical things.
[22:46] mde: Or brain-teasers.
[22:47] Brandon_R: good :)
[22:47] Brandon_R: :)
[22:47] Brandon_R: they test your responce to social situations more than it does to technology
[22:47] baoist_ has joined the channel
[22:47] mde: I hate that shit. :)
[22:47] Brandon_R: do you get up and leave or bs your way through it
[22:48] mde: We do want people who are social, communicate well.
[22:48] mde: And who understand product. 
[22:48] mde: Because the engineers have so much influence on it.
[22:48] Brandon_R: cool
[22:48] mde: Shit, I gotta go. Having people over soon. Y'all have a great NYE. :)
[22:48] Wa has joined the channel
[22:49] Brandon_R: :)
[22:49] Brandon_R: You too
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[22:55] eastc: using jquery within jade is the same format as html right?
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[22:56] Brandon_R: yes eastc
[22:56] jarek has joined the channel
[22:57] Brandon_R: just make sure it's in the js tabs
[22:57] eastc: yea
[22:57] eastc: Brandon_R: thanks
[22:57] Brandon_R: what are you working on bud?
[22:58] Brandon_R: not taking a new years night off?
[22:58] Brandon_R: i'm all alone here so it doesn't matter
[22:58] eastc: just trying to jazz up the sign up part on the index page
[22:58] richardr: mde: woah, Yammer seems like an awesome app. Never heard of it until just now
[22:59] eastc: i'm actually kind of new to node all together but I've been reading all sorts of stuff
[22:59] richardr: mde: How does it perform as a platform, good APIs?
[22:59] eastc: I wish documentation for express, jade, stylus and node was all centralized
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[23:03] RLa: someone should write book on them
[23:04] eastc: someone should
[23:04] eastc: something that clearly guides new people
[23:05] eastc: but I can understand why there isn't something like this yet
[23:05] RLa: too bad that when book is ready, most of its contents is obsolete already
[23:05] eastc: yea I know right
[23:05] eastc: well
[23:05] eastc: reading the docs will have to do for now
[23:05] eastc: i guess
[23:06] RLa: also, read source
[23:06] RLa: lot of node packages have quite trivial code
[23:06] eastc: source for node?
[23:06] eastc: oh yea
[23:06] eastc: true
[23:06] eastc: i really wish the node modules page would get cleaned up
[23:06] eastc: there are so many extraneous/outdated/replaced modules on there
[23:10] eastc: holy crap I just came across mongoose
[23:10] mattgifford has joined the channel
[23:10] eastc: cool stuff
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[23:24] RLa: what are you using as CI server for your node projects?
[23:25] jarek has joined the channel
[23:26] eastc: CI?
[23:26] stagas has joined the channel
[23:27] martin_sunset: Rla if it is open source use Travis-ci.org
[23:27] RLa: yeah, but for non-public projects?
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[23:28] RLa: eastc, something like hudson and jenkins
[23:30] c4milo1 has joined the channel
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[23:32] RLa: anyone interested in building small ci server?
[23:32] RLa: something simple
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[23:33] eastc: where the heck is everyone?
[23:33] marcello3d: partying I imagine
[23:33] RLa: typical workflow could be: fetch updates -> if updates then build -> run tests -> if tests not ok send mails
[23:34] marcello3d: rla: go for it
[23:35] RLa: i already rewrote my c++ unity build tools in js :)
[23:40] eeemsi_: happy new year
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[23:43] al3xnull: Would anyone happen to know why I would get "Object #<Object> has no method 'platform'" upon trying to create a new express app from the cli? Just installed express.
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[23:52] davidedwardclark: would it be possible to combine three.js and nodes to create real time multiplayer 3d game, or do y'all think that shit would run too slow?
[23:52] al3xnull: My bad. Forgot that this laptop has an outdated version of node.js. 
[23:53] davidedwardclark: nodes = nodejs
[23:54] marcello3d: hurray
[23:54] marcello3d: https://github.com/marcello3d/node-mongolian v0.1.15 released
[23:54] brianseeders has joined the channel
[23:55] marcello3d: removed all dependency on mongodb-native
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[23:57] nicholasf: hi, Im hunting for a richer DSL to use in my unit tests. assert.js is a bit limited (but a good start)
[23:58] nicholasf: what are peeps using?
[23:59] eastc: out of interest: was mongodb created for node?
[23:59] eastc: or aimed at