[00:00] alejandromg: sorry I was eating ;)
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[00:00] rob16299: im on windows, im using an sdk for a javascript engine
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[00:00] rob16299: and thats what they support, we dont do linux dev at my company
[00:00] mmalecki: node.js has a native windows build now. please use it.
[00:00] rob16299: i tried it
[00:01] rob16299: doesnt work on my engine, and they wont provide support for windows
[00:01] alejandromg: OH! 
[00:01] defunctzombie: who won't provide support?
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[00:01] rob16299: the sdk company that we're using to write apps for
[00:01] mmalecki: hahahahahaha
[00:01] defunctzombie: what sdk for what engine? it sound to me like your are trying to use technologies that are not meant for the platforms
[00:01] mmalecki: tell them to gtfo
[00:02] mmalecki: that's what a sane company would do
[00:02] mmalecki: or get a linux
[00:02] marcello3d: so you have to use windows, but you can't use windows?
[00:02] defunctzombie: in which case I think you will find it very hard to find anyone to support you
[00:02] marcello3d: that sounds confusing
[00:02] rob16299: i know it all sounds weird, but thats where Im at, not the boss
[00:02] defunctzombie: why do you want to use node?
[00:02] mmalecki: that's called vendor lockin.
[00:02] defunctzombie: and what were you using before?
[00:02] marcello3d: it sounds like whatever library you're using isn't designed for windows?
[00:03] rob16299: have to, thats how development is done on their platform, then its pushed to their servers
[00:03] marcello3d: since it's using exec to check for root privileges (poorly designed?)
[00:03] defunctzombie: without more details there isn't much help we can give
[00:03] rob16299: i can give you all the details of what its trying to do
[00:03] cainus: hey all... can anyone recommend a hosting company where I can deploy via some method other than version control?
[00:03] rob16299: utils.info("Server running at http://localhost:" + gServerPort + "/" );
[00:03] defunctzombie: and sticking to node 0.4x isn't smart as no one will really support that now
[00:03] alejandromg: *Show the details*
[00:03] defunctzombie: cainus: depends how you want to deploy
[00:04] rob16299: Create Flash socket policy file server if running as root.
[00:04] rob16299: exec('id -G | sed -E "s/ .*//g"', function(serror, stdout, stderr)
[00:04] mmalecki: cainus: nodejitsu
[00:04] alejandromg: nodejitsu +1
[00:04] defunctzombie: rob16299 these are not details
[00:04] cainus: defunctzombie: ftp or scp?  can't really think of anything else
[00:04] rob16299: what do you need?
[00:04] defunctzombie: rsync :)
[00:05] defunctzombie: rob16299: what is it that you are trying to use?
[00:05] cainus: rsync is a little bit troublesome in this scenario
[00:05] defunctzombie: and why are you trying to make it work on cygwin instead of a linux system?
[00:05] MooGoo: all that exec does is go out of its way to check if you are root
[00:05] MooGoo: just dont check on windows
[00:05] defunctzombie: I know you said your company doesn't do windows
[00:05] cainus: isn't nodejitsu under private beta?
[00:06] rob16299: i am using node to host a local server to debug and develop a mobage application https://developer.mobage.com/
[00:06] mmalecki: cainus: yeah, but we can get you in in no time
[00:06] alejandromg: cainus: join the irc channel of nodejitsu and ask #nodejitsu
[00:06] mmalecki: dislaimer: I work for nodejitsu
[00:06] alejandromg: LOL
[00:06] rob16299: so work around it and not call exec?
[00:07] rob16299: ill give it a shot
[00:08] alejandromg: Yeah! BTW what sdk features do you need to write code?
[00:08] alejandromg: *js code
[00:08] rob16299: they have helpers for physics, touch handling, sprites, etc
[00:08] marcello3d: is it safe on node master to just copy the built exec to /usr/local/bin/node, or do I need to do more to mimick the old 'make install' ?
[00:08] rob16299: our company is helping them make applications for their sdk
[00:09] marcello3d: rob: tell them node 0.6.x is out with windows compatibility and they should support windows now
[00:09] marcello3d: without cygwin
[00:10] alejandromg: what marcello said,,,
[00:10] marcello3d: their docs say "Windows users must install a shell environment (e.g., Cygwin). We do not support Windows, because node.js is still unstable on Windows. "
[00:10] marcello3d: which isn't true anymore
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[00:11] rob16299: theyre kinda slow with their sdk tools, but ill mention it to them next week
[00:11] rob16299: unfortunately didnt work, not calling exec
[00:11] rob16299: it created the server, but now different issues :P
[00:11] alejandromg: You should do that... 
[00:13] rob16299: 00:08:07 : INFO  : stack: TypeError: undefined is not a function     at CALL_NON_FUNCTION_AS_CONSTRUCTOR (native)
[00:13] rob16299: <- dies
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[00:14] marcello3d: it doesn't sound like it's your job to fix their bugs
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[00:15] marcello3d: oh that's pretty cool: https://github.com/visionmedia/term-canvas
[00:16] defunctzombie: oh jesus
[00:17] defunctzombie: why... oh god why..
[00:17] marcello3d: curses guis? :D
[00:17] defunctzombie: sigh
[00:18] marcello3d: it certainly looks like a just-for-fun hack library
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[00:27] necromancer: hi guys
[00:27] necromancer: i'm following the peepcode "meet node.js" tutorial/screencast
[00:27] necromancer: and i have the following function (in the tutorial it's called ipToPosition): https://gist.github.com/1381262
[00:28] necromancer: i've discovered that it's not getting to the "response" listener callback
[00:28] necromancer: and since this was made when node was at v0.1.x, i was wondering if this workflow has changed at all..
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[00:30] alejandromg: necromancer: the geoip/api/locate.json it's a local address? in the same server?
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[00:32] marcello3d: wow, node 0.6.2's buffer writeUInt** etc commands are super slow
[00:32] marcello3d: if I switch from my javascript version to those, runs half the speed
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[00:35] rob16299: going with virtualbox, thank you all for your help
[00:36] marcello3d: good luck
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[00:36] MooGoo: try arch it's nice
[00:36] alejandromg: rob16299: Good luck with that..
[00:36] rob16299: whatever is a quicker setup, what is arch?
[00:37] alejandromg: a linux flavor
[00:37] MooGoo: a good linux distro
[00:37] MooGoo: if you are okay with a little command line...it's pretty quick and easy to get a minimal system with node
[00:38] marcello3d: anyone played with node on rackspace cloud?
[00:38] alejandromg: I do!
[00:39] alejandromg: *did
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[00:39] phlff: With express I'm getting "Error: Can't set headers after they are sent." from hitting a simple router app.get('/'); which only does "res.render('index');" and returns. I've googled this and don't see anything obvious.
[00:39] phlff: index is a simple ejs template.
[00:40] marcello3d: does it work alright? I just want to do a little "production" testing
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[00:40] marcello3d: perhaps staging is a better term
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[00:40] cainus: phlff: paste some code?
[00:40] phlff: cainus: okay :)
[00:40] alejandromg: *staging yeah! It worked like charm
[00:41] marcello3d: what do you use to setup the server? it seems like something I'd want to make repeatable/automatable
[00:41] alejandromg: I initialize a new cloudserver with nodejs, mongodb, and more in like 15mins..
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[00:42] marcello3d: just commandline hacking it?
[00:42] alejandromg: Yeah! ;) but the nodejitsu guys build this https://github.com/nodejitsu/node-cloudservers
[00:42] alejandromg: and That's pretty clever...
[00:42] marcello3d: what about backup? is there a way to snapshot it, shut down the server, and pull it up again later?
[00:42] marcello3d: I saw this...did you try it?
[00:43] alejandromg: No I just found this earlier
[00:43] marcello3d: I'll try it out
[00:43] alejandromg: RS has something called Server images
[00:43] phlff: cainus: thanks…..it was my loadUser middleware. Figured it out while double checking my pastebin.
[00:43] alejandromg: I thing that can help
[00:44] phlff: cainus: as you can see, there wasn't much else to go wrong: http://pastebin.com/qWLhFpB4
[00:47] marcello3d: inceplinenumbertion
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[00:50] cainus: phlff: cool :)   rubber duck debugging :)
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[00:54] phlff: cainus: cool, hadn't heard that before, just read up on it. Funny.
[00:54] tokenmathguy: hi all
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[00:55] tokenmathguy: js-mode in emacs doesn't behave too nicely with regard to tabs and dot-before notation
[00:55] tokenmathguy: anyone have a good way of handling this (besides going back to vi)?
[00:56] Lingerance: Use vim instead?
[00:56] Lingerance: 
ACTION doesn't know anyone who still uses vi

[00:56] tokenmathguy: Lingerance: ha
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[01:06] defunctzombie: marcello3d: yea, the write commands for buffer are very very slow
[01:07] defunctzombie: I don't know why (haven't looked into it)
[01:07] defunctzombie: but it is bad because it will encourage people to use them
[01:07] defunctzombie: when they are this slow
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[01:10] nyxynyx: hello
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[01:17] nyxynyx: hell node.js
[01:17] nyxynyx: hello node.js
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[01:19] alejandromg: heloo
[01:19] alejandromg: *hello
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[01:21] ryanrolds: hello
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[01:30] defunctzombie: victory! first major step of refactoring libxmljs complete
[01:30] defunctzombie: one small step for man.. one giant step for my personal well being ;)
[01:30] alejandromg: +1
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[01:43] MooGoo: ohrly?
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[01:44] MooGoo: catb0t thx u
[01:44] catb0t: thx a lot
[01:44] MooGoo: she rly wants to upgrade to .6
[01:44] MooGoo: I wonder if node-sqlite is updated yet
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[01:56] phlff: Wow, running authentication which involves hitting mongo, then rendering my home page which has several mongo calls, and then putting together an EJS template, I'm getting ~400 pages/second on a micro EC2 instance. And this is running ab from the same machine. Django was giving me 30 pages a second with the same setup.
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[01:59] alejandromg: phlff: That's the powerful node.js in action ;)
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[02:00] phlff: alejandromg: just too awesome. bbl going to go show this off.
[02:00] celalo: hello
[02:00] celalo: At the client side you do it via window["functionName"](arguments);
[02:00] celalo: How it would be possible in node.js server-side code?
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[02:04] alejandromg: celalo: I don't know what do you mean...  
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[02:05] celalo: Calling functions by (string) name
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[02:05] igl: same thing
[02:06] igl: obj["key"]();
[02:06] alejandromg: yeah! Same thing
[02:07] igl: nodejs fuck yeah
[02:08] MooGoo: he means global["functionName"](args)
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[02:08] MooGoo: or just (function() { this == global }())
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[02:22] Lingerance: MooGoo: You can't assign this like that.
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[02:38] MooGoo: what now
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[03:25] CIA-109: node: 03Ryan Dahl 07v0.6 * r9d1bdbc 10/ (Makefile tools/osx-pkg.pmdoc/01local.xml tools/osx-dist.sh): Fixes #2084. Makeify tools/osx-dist.sh - http://git.io/8fY6bw
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[03:30] Aria: 
ACTION does the "under 500 failing assertions" dance.

[03:30] Aria: And found one bug in either the html5lib test data or the spec.
[03:30] ryah: Aria: 500? dang
[03:31] Aria: Yeah. The HTML5 parser has a huge test suite (thanks, HTML5lib!), and there's all kinds of crazy edge cases.
[03:31] Aria: I'm in the pile where it's stuff like "what happens if you have a < at the end of file inside an unclosed <script> tag"
[03:31] ryah: :)
[03:32] ryah: btw is html5 working on node v0.6?
[03:32] Aria: It is!
[03:32] ryah: excellent
[03:32] ryah: was porting it any trouble?
[03:32] Aria: And tmpvar just fixed the "sys is now util" name change that made it throw warnings.
[03:32] Aria: None. I don't touch any of the layers you changed.
[03:32] ryah: good - glad to hear.
[03:32] Aria: The parser is almost pure javascript goodness, the only nodiness is two event emitters.
[03:33] Aria: (well, and require)
[03:33] defunctzombie: how is html5 speed these days?
[03:33] Aria: Getting slowly better.
[03:33] defunctzombie: I tried it a month ago and libxml out performed it by a lot
[03:33] Aria: Well, yeah. XML parsing is far easier than HTML parsing ;-)
[03:33] defunctzombie: well, libxml does html as well ;)
[03:33] Aria: Kinda.
[03:33] defunctzombie: it is what I use to scrape webpages
[03:34] Aria: I'd be curious to know what it does in some of these edge cases.
[03:34] defunctzombie: http://xmlsoft.org/
[03:34] defunctzombie: it is complex tech, but you can certainly try it and see what the toString on the document produces
[03:34] defunctzombie: that is a fixed up version
[03:34] defunctzombie: what edge case do you have in mind?
[03:35] defunctzombie: I can run a quick test on one
[03:35] Aria: Oh, ones like < at EOF inside <script>
[03:35] Aria: I have hundreds to choose from.
[03:35] Aria: (Literally. 2400 assertions in the test suite and growing.)
[03:35] defunctzombie: can you paste a full example of the < at EOF?
[03:35] cainus: hey all... I always hear people talking about using the same templates server-side and client-side with node... is anyone really doing that?  how?
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[03:36] Aria: <html><head><script><
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[03:36] Aria: Should parse as <html><head><script><!CDATA[<]></script><body></body></html>
[03:36] defunctzombie: marcello3d: ping @cainus 
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[03:37] Aria: cainus: mustache, for one.
[03:37] cainus: Aria: yeah I'm aware of a bunch of template libs
[03:37] defunctzombie: Aria: the tostring I get back just closes the head tag for me and then the html document
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[03:37] cainus: just wondering if people are really rendering on both the client and server (in the same app)
[03:38] defunctzombie: so after parsing that, I can tostring the document and get <html><head><script/></head></html>
[03:38] defunctzombie: while not valid html as a string (obviously cause of the script)
[03:38] defunctzombie: it is parsed properly
[03:38] defunctzombie: which means I can then do xpath lookups and the same just fine
[03:39] defunctzombie: Aria, ignore what I just said
[03:39] defunctzombie: I forgot a > before the last <
[03:39] defunctzombie: libxml2 does indeed give me the result you expected
[03:39] Aria: Oh nice.
[03:39] defunctzombie: with CDATA and all
[03:39] defunctzombie: :)
[03:39] Aria: Win!
[03:39] defunctzombie: no <body> tho btw
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[03:39] defunctzombie: yea... I expect libxml2 to be very good
[03:39] Aria: Aha. So it's not HTML5 parsing, but it's doing a sane tag soup.
[03:39] defunctzombie: it has been battle tested for a long time
[03:40] Aria: Yeah, it's really good software. I've used it for years.
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[03:40] Aria: I have some ideas on how to speed the HTML5 parser up. Some is accounting for the ways in which V8 hates being abused as compared to others.
[03:40] defunctzombie: heh
[03:40] Aria: I suspect I'm triggering a recompile when I switch states.
[03:41] defunctzombie: speedup would be quite nice
[03:41] defunctzombie: I ported some of my stuff I had to html5 to try it
[03:41] defunctzombie: but had to switch back to libxml wrapper
[03:41] defunctzombie: for the speed
[03:41] defunctzombie: cause I do a lot of parsing on the fly
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[03:41] defunctzombie: and can't really justify blocking for too long
[03:41] Aria: Yeah. I'm going to finish stomping a few of these correctness bugs, and then go for speed. I also need to see if using some of the weaker DOM modes speeds parsing. And then see if I can get private APIs that are fast.
[03:41] Aria: Yeah, my initial use case for this needs speed too.
[03:42] Aria: (haven't gotten there yet, obviously)
[03:42] defunctzombie: no worries, I am sure you will
[03:42] defunctzombie: the testcases will help keep you honest ;)
[03:42] Aria: Yes they do.
[03:42] Aria: I just want to squish the EOF misparsing errors before I go for speed.
[03:43] Aria: I found a way to get an exception thrown at the critical code points, so I'm tracking those down now.
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[03:43] Aria: ... Actually, I think I just nailed the last one unless the test suite is lying to me.
[03:43] defunctzombie: heh
[03:44] Aria: Anyone have favorite code coverage tools yet?
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[03:53] defunctzombie: along those same lines, what documentation generators do people prefer/like?
[03:54] Aria: I'm using ronnjs and not entirely happy.
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[03:56] defunctzombie: docco looks interesting
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[03:57] defunctzombie: I am looking for something with jsdoc style syntax ish
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[03:57] Aria: Hm.
[03:58] Aria: docco seems good to me too. But I think I want something different, but I'm not sure what.
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[04:02] alejandromg: defunctzombie: dox also is good...
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[04:04] defunctzombie: alejandromg: does it also generate the .md or .html output? I am looking at it and can't find if it does
[04:05] alejandromg: in the previous version generated a .html file but in the latest version it's a json output... 
[04:05] defunctzombie: yea.. that kinda isn't useful for an end user :)
[04:05] defunctzombie: I know it may be a cool intermediate format, but that isn't the goal with documentation
[04:06] alejandromg: I was thinking about install a previous version, so you can get the .html output, i guess
[04:07] alejandromg: maybe: npm install dox@0.1.0 (or lower)
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[04:11] alejandromg: * 0.0.3
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[04:11] Aria: Hm. No addon that does json-to-html?
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[04:12] maxogden: wat
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[04:32] marcello3d: defunctzombie: why am I pinging cainus?
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[04:34] Pritchard: Hello.  Can someone explain to me or provide a link as to how server-side javascript gets executed?
[04:34] rob16299: worked with ubuntu, everyone have a nice night
[04:34] Pritchard: I want to know what processes my code, where and how information is being stored, and how communication with the system is accomplished.
[04:35] Pritchard: Because what I hear about node.js defies what I (currently) know about JavaScript - where I can't touch anything outside of the browser.  Obviously, I've only ever done client-side programming with JavaScript...
[04:35] Aria: Pritchard: node is a single binary program, linking in v8 -- it's the entry point that loads the script and runs it.
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[04:36] Aria: Pritchard: So it acts like almost any unix scripting engine. It runs the script, and sets up globals that let it load other modules that can do things like talk to the file system. So it's javascript language, but unbolted from the DOM and bolted onto a very efficient network stack instead.
[04:36] marcello3d: Pritchard: server-side javascript has almost nothing to do with client side javascript, other than the language itself
[04:36] gkatsev: and the js engine
[04:36] Pritchard: Thanks for the clarification.
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[04:37] Aria: Pritchard: then, for serving web pages, people either have their browsers talk to the node script running an http server itself, or proxy that behind another web server.
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[04:37] Pritchard: I have a professor who thinks there's no such thing as server-side javascript.  Us both using it on the client-side, the concept is admittedly a little intimidating.
[04:37] Aria: (that's a key point: you start the server first, it's not initiated by the client.)
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[04:37] Pritchard: Aria:  Thanks a ton.
[04:38] Aria: Oh dear. Your professor could have checked that with a quick google search. Server side javascript has existed since the days of netscape 3.
[04:38] Aria: (not that it was any good until recently.)
[04:38] Pritchard: :)
[04:38] Pritchard: I'm going to build an example and shove it in his cocky face.
[04:38] Pritchard: >_>...
[04:38] Aria: Excellent. Some of the realtime chat demos are both impressive and simple.
[04:38] Aria: "And look! It's javascript at both ends!"
[04:39] marcello3d: kinky
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[04:43] maxogden: Pritchard: tell your professor he should make more of an effort to stay relevant
[04:43] defunctzombie: hahahha
[04:43] defunctzombie: Pritchard, what school is this?
[04:43] defunctzombie: out of interest :)
[04:43] JakeyChan: how to close express log ?
[04:44] JakeyChan: it's too big! 64M
[04:45] Pritchard: defunctzombie:  A community college in southern Ohio if it matters.
[04:45] Pritchard: My professor is actually really awesome, but he's a project manager from the 90's so he's a bit outdated sometimes.
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[04:48] josephg: lol
[04:48] josephg: well, if he's keen on java, tell him its like Rhino
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[04:49] josephg: (which is a lua-style javascript runtime library for java)
[04:49] Pritchard: josephg:  He got keen on VB from C++, then went onto VB.NET.  In all honesty, I'm not sure he's too keen on coding any more.  He rebuilds the same toolkit any time a new language comes up.  It speeds up his design process.
[04:49] josephg: haha
[04:50] josephg: aah people who refuse to change how they code when they learn a new language...
[04:50] marcello3d: what's that npm flag for making it pretend it's using a different node version when installing a package?
[04:50] defunctzombie: --node-version
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[04:51] marcello3d: perfect, cheers
[04:51] Pritchard: josephg:  Yeah, he can be like that.  Still uses hungarian notation (actually, I've wanted bln, str, etc in JavaScript sometimes but never anywhere else), for example.
[04:51] josephg: 
ACTION nods

[04:52] maxogden: switching from VB to V8 is just a few pixels, cant be that hard
[04:52] josephg: I worked in a bank, once, and there were people like that
[04:52] josephg: maxogden: lol
[04:52] Pritchard: lol
[04:52] Pritchard: The world of business programming scares me a bit!
[04:53] josephg: we were a java shop, and my boss was scared of adding functions to any of the shared libraries (We'll have to re-test all our sites!)
[04:53] Pritchard: Hahah
[04:53] Pritchard: For adding functions?
[04:53] josephg: yep
[04:53] Pritchard: Hoo boy.
[04:53] josephg: so we copy+pasted this 5000 line java class into every new webpage servlet we used
[04:53] Pritchard: D:
[04:53] josephg: 
ACTION doesn't work in banks anymore

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[04:54] Lorentz: I do mortgages right now
[04:54] Lorentz: What a pain
[04:55] changbeer: with npm how can I specify a dependency that points to a local git repo e.g. (/home/me/git/liba/ rather than git+ssh://github/liba)? 
[04:55] josephg: heh… I think if you're using good tools and you're working with smart people, its not so bad
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[04:55] lduros: hello :-)
[04:55] josephg: changbeer: file:/// doesn't work?
[04:56] marcello3d: changbeer: you can use npm link
[04:56] Pritchard: I've talked to any number of companies around where I live.  Well, job recruiters.  They seem boring and uninterested in the fact that programming is my hobby.
[04:56] lduros: question: I'm looking in the url module and I have a series of urls that have a fragment at their (like: #myAnchor) -- is there a method I can use to remove this fragment from absolute urls?
[04:56] Pritchard: That I'm entirely all too interested in it, pick up new languages in days, if not minutes, etc.
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[04:57] maxogden: Pritchard: a) job recruiters generally suck b) ohio isnt exactly known for being on the cutting edge of technology
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[04:57] Pritchard: maxogden:  Yeah, I've thought about that.
[04:57] Lorentz: I've never met a decent recruiter
[04:57] Lorentz: All of them I've met are purely in it for the money, not getting me a decent job
[04:58] maxogden: Pritchard: your best bet is to build up your github account. you will get job offers like crazy
[04:58] changbeer: Pritchard, there is no shame in lying to a recruiter, as long as when you have the interview with you are honest, recruiter = stupid scum
[04:58] Pritchard: maxogden:  Really?
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[04:58] josephg: Pritchard: take a look at the hackernews "who's hiring" list next time it pops up. There's lots of interesting jobs posted there
[04:58] Lorentz: As long as they get people hired in enough rate to earn them a living, they don't care if you get a job or not :\
[04:58] Pritchard: changbeer:  I'll keep that in mind.
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[04:58] Pritchard: You guys are awesome.
[04:58] Lorentz: (which is why they lie to the companies, been to way too many interviews where I was praised like almighty and company wasn't the job I wanted to apply to)
[04:58] maxogden: Pritchard: yep i had to put a 'go away recruiters' message on my github profile to stop getting spammed by them all the time
[04:59] maxogden: (i copied the idea from isaacs)
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[04:59] josephg: lduros: can you just use the builtin url.parse? http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.12/api/url.html
[04:59] changbeer: a recruiter will lie lie if there is a possibility you will earn him a commission, but he will put many candidates to increase his odds, even if it means you taking a day off work and travelling 2 hundreds mile to find that this super position is really maintaining an app in VB6
[05:00] changbeer: a recruiter skill is being so slimey so you feel you owe him, even to point of taking a job you're not 100% sold on, the lesson are learnt quickly, you owe them nothing, they are not your friends, they are market expoliters and nowadays they do so little work that the industry is a joke
[05:01] marcello3d: can't say I've ever interacted with a recruiter like you describe...
[05:01] Aria: YES
[05:01] lduros: josephg: thanks, looking into it :-)
[05:01] josephg: lduros:  :)
[05:01] changbeer: have you turned down a job after a 2nd interview? 
[05:01] marcello3d: but most of the recruiters I've talked to worked for whatever company was recruiting
[05:01] Aria: Oh, that's different.
[05:01] Aria: Third party recruiters are terrible.
[05:01] changbeer: yes very different
[05:01] josephg: I just don't see the point of 3rd party recruiters. There's so many jobs around at the moment that you may as well apply directly
[05:02] marcello3d: I read a good article about those guys
[05:02] Aria: Yeah. And you can take the time to really write a great cover letter and resume that aims at THEM
[05:03] marcello3d: hmmm, what dist should I run on rackspace cloud...
[05:03] Pritchard: josephg:  Well, I'm currently a student.  Even though I've been programming since forever, companies don't understand this.  Trying to build my portfolio as we speak...
[05:03] Pritchard: Also:  I'm in Ohio.
[05:03] changbeer: sites like github jobs, stackoverflow jobs, are worth watching, dont tie yourself to a language or framework (even node.js etc..) if something interesting/challenging comes up then you'll adapt 
[05:04] marcello3d: they have {arch, centos, debian, fedora, gentoo, oracle, redhat, ubuntu}
[05:04] defunctzombie: marcello3d: debian :)
[05:04] defunctzombie: unstable!
[05:04] marcello3d: I've used gentoo, centos, and currently using debian
[05:05] josephg: marcello3d: unless there's a good reason, I usually go for ubuntu
[05:05] marcello3d: ubuntu is just debian with extra shit, right?
[05:05] nicholasf: Pritchard: to be fair, a lot of programmers use that argument but generally have a lot to learn in their first few roles
[05:05] josephg: yep, and more frequently updated packages.
[05:05] defunctzombie: ubuntu is just debian without any updated packages
[05:05] Pritchard: nicholasf:  Hah.  I'm sure I do.  Specific things that industry programmers do.
[05:05] marcello3d: defunctzombie: debian 6 ok?
[05:05] defunctzombie: other way around, debian unstable will get you the latest :)
[05:05] defunctzombie: you can install 6 which is the latest stable
[05:05] marcello3d: ok
[05:06] defunctzombie: and then upgrade to unstable if you want
[05:06] Pritchard: Maybe it's that I feel like a good investment more than anything else :-/
[05:06] defunctzombie: that is what I usually do
[05:06] marcello3d: do I want? I don't think I want.
[05:06] josephg: defunctzombie: really? huh - must have changed since I used debian
[05:06] marcello3d: not for production server?
[05:06] changbeer: nicholas, correct, when i got first real job id rate my programming skills at 8/10, now after 10 years experience i'd settle at 6
[05:06] nicholasf: Pritchard: I have 12 years of commercial experience. Ive met some coders out of uni who just got it, and some who didnt
[05:06] defunctzombie: you should be fine with 6
[05:06] josephg: I found the unstable releases … unstable, and the stable releases way too out of date
[05:06] marcello3d: josephg: how is the security on ubuntu though?
[05:06] defunctzombie: it is fine
[05:06] defunctzombie: I have run servers in both
[05:06] defunctzombie: it is the same system
[05:07] Pritchard: nicholasf:  As a comparison, my classes bore me after the first week.  I tested out of three programming classes last term by finishing their final projects over the weekend.
[05:07] defunctzombie: ubuntu is a good choice too imho
[05:07] Lorentz: How does one define if a system is secure anyway
[05:07] nicholasf: Pritchard: yes, but that's not a measurement of being a good commercial programmer
[05:07] defunctzombie: I just went with debian cause I don't care about the upgrade every 6 months
[05:07] Lorentz: How long since last breach?
[05:07] nicholasf: Pritchard: that'sjust being clever
[05:07] Pritchard: nicholasf:  Heh.  I guess I'll take your word for it.
[05:07] marcello3d: Lorentz: that and attitude
[05:07] changbeer: Lorentz, how do you know you've been breached?
[05:07] nicholasf: Pritchard: but it's a damn good start :)
[05:07] defunctzombie: so with debian unstable I just choose when I want to upgrade
[05:07] defunctzombie: and do it then
[05:08] defunctzombie: one cool thing you can do with debian
[05:08] defunctzombie: is install the 6 version
[05:08] defunctzombie: then add the unstable repo
[05:08] marcello3d: I'll go with debian. I'm using it on my other server, and I'm familiar with it enough
[05:08] Pritchard: Thanks :)  I guess I'll continue building my portfolio.  I'm back in school this week, but if I can get this site up and running before the weekend I can start adding projects to it.
[05:08] defunctzombie: and only install the updated packages of what you need
[05:08] marcello3d: sounds like it's still a reasonable choice
[05:08] nicholasf: Pritchard: I think the best way to skill up for commercial work is to just jump into an open source project and become a contributor
[05:08] defunctzombie: it will not install all the unstable packages
[05:08] defunctzombie: only the ones you request
[05:08] marcello3d: nicholasf++
[05:08] catb0t: nicholasf now has 1 beer
[05:08] defunctzombie: and you can pin them with apt pinning
[05:08] defunctzombie: I do this and I like it
[05:08] russfrank: yeah, then you also build a reputation for yourself on the internets.
[05:08] marcello3d: man
[05:09] defunctzombie: best of both world imho
[05:09] Pritchard: nicholasf:  And by that, you mean OSS that people are using commercially?
[05:09] marcello3d: I really hate sysadmin
[05:09] russfrank: sure
[05:09] defunctzombie: hahaha
[05:09] nicholasf: Pritchard: no, just a project that interests you for some reason
[05:09] pksunkara: I contributed to git and rails
[05:09] marcello3d: I can see the appeal of smartos/joyent/nodejitsu
[05:09] pksunkara: Am I skilled ?
[05:09] russfrank: pksunkara: yep!
[05:09] nicholasf: Pritchard: because you learn teamwork, ticket tracking systems, discussing features, etc.
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[05:09] russfrank: Pritchard: make a github! everyone has a github! it's cool to have a github
[05:09] Lorentz: changbeer: That's just it, isn't it
[05:09] Pritchard: lol okay okay.  I'll make a github.
[05:10] nicholasf: haha
[05:10] josephg: oh yeah, having a github account is basically a requirement :p
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[05:10] marcello3d: especially if you want to use node ;D
[05:10] Lorentz: You never know
[05:10] Pritchard: If I could beer++ all of you I would.
[05:10] nicholasf: marcello3d: thank's for the beer. I'm new here and just transitioning to js/coffeescript from ruby dev
[05:10] changbeer: indeed. the formula to secure system is complicated and debatable, but the one sure path to an insecure system is arrogance
[05:11] Pritchard: It's 12 AM.  Thankfully class isn't until 12 PM...
[05:11] Pritchard: Gives me a few more hours until mandatory sleep.
[05:11] josephg: speaking of github, I find it interesting that nobody uses bitbucket. 
[05:11] josephg: I don't think the UI differences are significant
[05:11] marcello3d: changbeer: like "oracle unbreakable linux" ? ;)
[05:11] Pritchard: 
ACTION plans to make a github, get v8/node.js up and running before bed

[05:11] josephg: .- I'd say its the network effect, but I don't know why it would be that important on a code hosting site
[05:11] changbeer: josephg bitbucket have only recently added git iirc
[05:12] josephg: changbeer: hg is the same as git
[05:12] Lorentz: changbeer: Usually it's decent enough if you follow the software that's exposed and any known bugs/0-day exploits around and patch accordingly, if it's a publically used software like databases and web servers
[05:12] changbeer: err.. no it aint
[05:12] marcello3d: josephg: I read an interesting article about how bitbucket shamelessly copied github's ui/design layout
[05:12] changbeer: you have no index with hg
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[05:12] josephg: changbeer: by 'the same' I mean, the same patch model
[05:12] Lorentz: Have a team to do penetrative testing is good too, except it costs and still isn't perfect (far from it, many of them just do what I just said about checking existing exploits)
[05:12] marcello3d: http://www.pocoo.org/~blackbird/github-vs-bitbucket/bitbucket.html
[05:12] josephg: the interface is waaay better imo (i've come from subversion, so its way more familiar)
[05:13] josephg: 
ACTION reads

[05:13] SubStack: I hate subversion so much now.
[05:13] SubStack: git spoiled me
[05:13] pksunkara: subversion sucks
[05:13] Lorentz: Your name starts with sub
[05:13] Lorentz: You should rename to gitstack
[05:13] SubStack: also I hate having multiple maintainers on a single git project
[05:13] pksunkara: lol
[05:14] SubStack: hate hate hate
[05:14] SubStack: so full of hate
[05:14] pksunkara: I want to start contributing to node
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[05:14] pksunkara: Any leads ?
[05:14] SubStack: pksunkara: write a lot of modules
[05:14] SubStack: ok go
[05:14] pksunkara: I am writing modules
[05:14] SubStack: excellent
[05:14] marcello3d: pksunkara: join the dev mailing list
[05:14] SubStack: keep doing that
[05:14] pksunkara: I am talking about joyent/node
[05:15] Lorentz: Write modules, good modules
[05:15] SubStack: what about it?
[05:15] Lorentz: Have people using them
[05:15] defunctzombie: github has changed quite a bit tho
[05:15] Lorentz: What more could you want?
[05:15] pksunkara: Is there any small issue I can patch up?
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[05:15] SubStack: pksunkara: why?
[05:15] defunctzombie: don't write modules just for teh sake of it :) write them cause they solve some problem
[05:15] pksunkara: so that, I can involve in contributing to nodejs core
[05:16] marcello3d: pksunkara: look at the issues page?
[05:16] SubStack: defunctzombie: false
[05:16] changbeer: pksunkara, id start with contributing to popular node-modules, find a project that has a lot of open issues such as jade-lang etc..
[05:16] marcello3d: SubStack: defunctzombie: write modules so you can draw funky logos for them ;D
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[05:16] pksunkara: changbeer: already contributed to popular node-modules
[05:16] defunctzombie: keep doing it
[05:17] defunctzombie: it isn't like you get a merrit badge and are done ;)
[05:17] defunctzombie: it is an ongoing process
[05:17] pksunkara: :D
[05:17] changbeer: next level
[05:17] ChrisPartridge: hang on.. I was told there would be merrit badges...
[05:17] russfrank: Pritchard: getting node running is super easy! try express. it's fun!  all the cool kids are using it
[05:17] defunctzombie: you were lied to
[05:17] pksunkara: Need to up my game by contributing to node.js core
[05:17] marcello3d: pksunkara: it sounds like you're already contributing to node, what are you trying to get out of it?
[05:18] marcello3d: I think this is a situation of "if you have to ask, ..."
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[05:18] defunctzombie: why node.js core? I am with marcello3d on this one.. seems like there is no clear reason
[05:18] defunctzombie: I mean.. why stop at node.js core? why not the v8 engine ;)
[05:18] SubStack: pksunkara: you should solve your own problems
[05:18] defunctzombie: or the kernel
[05:18] pksunkara: I am a students, I don't encounter many problems
[05:18] SubStack: "contributing" for the sake of it doesn't help anybody
[05:19] pksunkara: that is why I am asking on the irc for problems
[05:19] SubStack: because the quality of the contributions don't have any soul
[05:19] pquerna: https://github.com/joyent/node/pulls
[05:19] marcello3d: pksunkara: make a web site
[05:19] pquerna: review pull requests
[05:19] josephg: SubStack: +1
[05:19] marcello3d: make your own problems
[05:19] SubStack: scratch some itches
[05:19] defunctzombie: fix some bugs
[05:19] josephg: pkrumins: when I was at school, I wrote games
[05:19] josephg: that was way fun, expecially if you have some friends to help out
[05:19] defunctzombie: look at a todo list for a project and do it
[05:19] Aria: Write tools to program better.
[05:19] defunctzombie: that is how I started with ubuntu contributing back in the day
[05:20] defunctzombie: it is easy
[05:20] Aria: Then write tools to fix those tools ;-)
[05:20] pksunkara: defunctzombie: Thanks, that is what I am searching for
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[05:21] pksunkara: but joyent/node doesn't seem to have a TODO list
[05:21] changbeer: bugs = todo
[05:21] Pritchard: Yeah, I'd rather contribute out of interest.
[05:21] Aria: node is also pretty low-level. Most of what people are doing with node are outside of node proper.
[05:21] rchavik has joined the channel
[05:21] Pritchard: but digging around TODOs might peak my interest :)
[05:22] Pritchard: Since I'm entirely new to the scene, I'll have to see how github, community contributions, and the tools themselves all work before diving in fully.
[05:22] defunctzombie: there are different types of contributions
[05:23] defunctzombie: scratching an itch is a common one and many people just ever do that
[05:23] josephg: yeah
[05:23] defunctzombie: if you just want to see what there is to do
[05:23] defunctzombie: the issues on github
[05:23] defunctzombie: is a good place
[05:23] defunctzombie: I would check out older issues
[05:23] defunctzombie: and see why they have not been fixed
[05:23] defunctzombie: or maybe ping them to see if the people still have the issue
[05:23] defunctzombie: closing outstanding issues is a very valiant effort
[05:24] defunctzombie: that will win you many thanks
[05:24] pksunkara: Is this fixed? https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/965
[05:24] marcello3d: anyone here use chef/knife?
[05:24] defunctzombie: if it says open then it is not fixed
[05:24] defunctzombie: so submit a patch for it and start from there :)
[05:24] pksunkara: :)
[05:25] defunctzombie: marcello3d, puppet :/
[05:25] marcello3d: puppet's website is really confusing. all I could find was the enterprise bullshit
[05:25] defunctzombie: hahahaha
[05:26] marcello3d: I found this article, but it started talking about <?php?> and was freaking the crap out of me http://evolvingweb.ca/story/controlling-your-cloud-puppet
[05:26] konobi: cherf/knife seem pretty reasonable
[05:26] konobi: though i've only used chef-solo
[05:26] defunctzombie: http://docs.puppetlabs.com/guides/techniques.html
[05:26] josephg: pksunkara, Pritchard: I would seriously recommend just trying to make something cool. yesterday a friend came over and we started making this for fun
[05:26] josephg: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2494815/space/space.html
[05:26] josephg: (click to shoot)
[05:26] defunctzombie: that is decent cause it has examples
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[05:26] josephg: we might expand it out, or we migth abandon it - but either way its fun to make stuff.
[05:27] defunctzombie: http://docs.puppetlabs.com/#installing-and-configuring
[05:27] defunctzombie: I do find their website has gotten more complex
[05:27] Pritchard: josephg:  Right now I'm working on my personal website, solved an NP-hard problem in JavaScript today, too.
[05:27] defunctzombie: I guess cause I know what to call the various things i know exactly where to go
[05:27] josephg: Pritchard: cool.
[05:27] defunctzombie: but for a new user it would be a nightmare
[05:28] defunctzombie: I hope that was a joke
[05:28] Pritchard: josephg:  The page you linked me to doesn't do anything.  The source is just script tags?
[05:28] marcello3d: seems reasonable... http://bitfieldconsulting.com/puppet-vs-chef
[05:28] pksunkara: josephg: I wrote online collaborative code editor using socket.io for hackathon
[05:28] josephg: Pritchard: you'll need chrome
[05:28] josephg: pksunkara: haha cool - you should help me write sharejs
[05:28] Pritchard: That's the only browser I use for real >_>
[05:28] pksunkara: I can
[05:28] pksunkara: can you post a link ?
[05:29] Pritchard: defunctzombie:  You hope what was a joke?
[05:29] marcello3d: chef is ruby, screw that ;D
[05:29] josephg: pksunkara: http://sharejs.org/
[05:29] defunctzombie: marcello3d last I heard google uses puppet for their desktop deployments
[05:29] defunctzombie: dunno if it is still true
[05:29] josephg: pksunkara: code: https://github.com/josephg/ShareJS
[05:29] defunctzombie: puppet is ruby too
[05:29] defunctzombie: btw :)
[05:29] marcello3d: fffffffff
[05:30] pksunkara: damn, when did you write that?
[05:30] defunctzombie: I would use puppet
[05:30] marcello3d: yea that's fine
[05:30] defunctzombie: chef is a case of .. we didn't want to learn puppet so we made our own
[05:30] marcello3d: I just needed to find docs
[05:30] marcello3d: guides whatever
[05:30] marcello3d: so much text
[05:30] Pritchard: josephg:  Yeah, I'm sorry.  I'm on chrome and all that's in the .html file is <canvas></canvas> then three script tags.  Nothing is displaying on the web page.
[05:30] josephg: Pritchard: hm - do the script tags load?
[05:30] josephg: like, are they 404ing or anything?
[05:31] defunctzombie: heh
[05:31] defunctzombie: documentors be documenting
[05:31] Pritchard: josephg:  The javascript console gives me "cannot call method 'viewport' of null' at atom.js:134
[05:31] Pritchard: Oh!  Yeah, I don't have a graphics card that supports shading.
[05:31] josephg: oh, that'd do it.
[05:31] Pritchard: Now it makes sense.
[05:32] Pritchard: Mind giving me a screenshot of what it looks like?  I'm interested.
[05:32] josephg: pksunkara: I wrote it months ago - still working on it.
[05:32] marcello3d: defunctzombie: so would I install puppet on my laptop to manage a cloud server?
[05:32] josephg: I'm cleaning up the client at the moment, and then I'm going to add cursors
[05:33] pksunkara: You should check the serialization algorigthm in http://github.com/pkumar/codecollab
[05:33] josephg: Pritchard: it looks a bit like this:
[05:33] josephg: http://glimr.rubyforge.org/cake/missile_fleet.html
[05:33] marcello3d: basically I just want an easy way to non-interactively setup a cloud server, install mongo, npm, and node---then I'll figure out the rest
[05:33] pksunkara: It's not complete in the UI
[05:34] Pritchard: Oh neat :)
[05:34] konobi: marcello3d: i'd give chef a try
[05:35] defunctzombie: marcello3d: no, you would install puppet on one of your servers
[05:35] defunctzombie: that server will be the puppet master
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[05:35] defunctzombie: and the other puppets will talk to it
[05:35] marcello3d: oh. but I just want one server (for now)
[05:35] defunctzombie: that is fine
[05:35] defunctzombie: the puppet master can also have a puppet client on the same box :)
[05:36] defunctzombie: and manage itself
[05:36] defunctzombie: it is very meta
[05:36] marcello3d: o_O
[05:36] josephg: pksunkara: you should learn coffeescript :D
[05:36] defunctzombie: no you should not
[05:36] pksunkara: joshephg: Why ?
[05:36] marcello3d: it's raining
[05:36] josephg: because its awesome
[05:36] marcello3d: ok, puppet docs are overwhelming me :D
[05:37] pksunkara: I know coffee
[05:37] pksunkara: I wrote that before my coffee days
[05:37] pksunkara: :D
[05:37] defunctzombie: learning coffescript is like learning c preprocessor for all your work, it may seem nice at first, but really you should have just learned the real language to start
[05:37] defunctzombie: ;)
[05:37] josephg: defunctzombie: it looks like he knows JS already
[05:37] defunctzombie: marcello3d: you just gotta battle through it
[05:38] josephg: also, codecollab looks cool - though I suspect with lag its possible for the text to go out of sync
[05:38] josephg: though if you're working locally it'd be fine
[05:38] pksunkara: don't know, it still has bugs, had no time to work on it
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[05:38] josephg: yep, for sure
[05:38] josephg: sharejs is basically that, but with more code and things
[05:39] defunctzombie: if you haven't given up on it I can show you next time there is a meetup :)
[05:39] pksunkara: but the algorithm to serialize the events is good
[05:39] josephg: pksunkara: what did you base it on?
[05:39] pksunkara: algorithm ?
[05:39] josephg: yeah
[05:40] defunctzombie: for one server tho, you will probly be better off just hand installing anyway
[05:40] pksunkara: each event generates a version and we store the version in memory
[05:40] konobi: generally i'll not use a library written in coffee... lots of folks are the same
[05:40] marcello3d: defunctzombie: I think I get the general idea, just seems more complicated than it needs to be for my situation---maybe I should just start with some ssh scripts :)
[05:40] defunctzombie: yea
[05:40] defunctzombie: that sounds easier :)
[05:40] pksunkara: and every event will be broadcasted back
[05:41] josephg: konobi: really? Why?
[05:41] defunctzombie: josephg, cause it adds more dependencies
[05:41] defunctzombie: and things to debug when stuff breaks
[05:41] marcello3d: less is more.
[05:41] konobi: i don't want to be debuging coffee shit when stuff breaks
[05:41] defunctzombie: an if you don't know coffeescript then it is useless cause you can't debug it
[05:41] josephg: less code is more too though
[05:42] defunctzombie: it isn't that much less code tho
[05:42] konobi: it's all about stack traces and call sites
[05:42] pksunkara: konobi: a lib written in coffee can generate js before publishing to npm
[05:42] marcello3d: yea, that's the main problem with coffeescript, it's only very incrementally better 
[05:42] defunctzombie: that is the thing, it is really just a bit of syntax sugar, not crazy shifting in how you write anything
[05:42] pksunkara: so, no extra dependencies while using it
[05:42] konobi: pksunkara: so?
[05:42] defunctzombie: I argue that it is worse
[05:42] josephg: 
ACTION blinks

[05:42] marcello3d: have you ever tried to read generated coffeescript?
[05:42] defunctzombie: cause you still have to understand how js works
[05:42] marcello3d: it's terrible :)
[05:43] pksunkara: why do you wanna read generated coffeescript?
[05:43] konobi: pksunkara: so the module author will accept my changesets to their generated JS code?
[05:43] rchavik has joined the channel
[05:43] marcello3d: trying to figure out how a module works?
[05:43] pksunkara: If you want to understand the module, read coffeescript
[05:43] Pritchard: IDK.  I'd rather stick with javascript.  I'm a fan of curly braces :(
[05:43] defunctzombie: I am too :)
[05:43] pksunkara: if you want to use it, use generated js
[05:43] josephg: bah
[05:43] marcello3d: that assumes you know coffeescript
[05:43] josephg: …. cretins!
[05:43] Pritchard: That's my solution.
[05:44] josephg: I guess i've come from a ruby background
[05:44] marcello3d: and that the cs compiler is perfect
[05:44] Pritchard: Generated CoffeeScript -> Generated JavaScript -> I will read it.
[05:44] josephg: but yeah, coffeescript isn't hard to read
[05:44] Pritchard: 
ACTION is just kidding

[05:44] defunctzombie: coffeescript is just for ruby people that don't want to read c style code ;P
[05:44] pksunkara: :D
[05:44] josephg: if you know javascript + ruby, its about an hour of learning to know the language
[05:44] Aria: s/ruby/python/
[05:44] marcello3d: ruby is a bizarre looking language. they should fix that shit up, add some curly braces and parentheses
[05:45] pksunkara: I didn't even try to learn ruby
[05:45] Aria: ... Ruby is full of those.
[05:45] josephg: 
ACTION winces

[05:45] marcello3d: never could have been stuffed to learn ruby. never saw a point
[05:45] pksunkara: I directly started using rails for the first time this summer
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[05:45] Lorentz: Should be more like perl
[05:45] Aria: Heh. Oy.
[05:45] Aria: Ruby's great. Rails ruined it.
[05:45] Aria: So much sparkly fairy dust everywhere.
[05:45] defunctzombie: someday people will realize development is more than knowing the language
[05:45] marcello3d: lots of languages are great
[05:45] konobi: i suppose you also monkey patch built in object/function prototype
[05:45] Aria: You sneeze and the magic blows away.
[05:45] defunctzombie: it is knowing the idioms of the platform
[05:45] pksunkara: In OOP, ruby is definitely the best
[05:46] marcello3d: java is the best
[05:46] marcello3d: and with that, I go back to coding.
[05:46] Aria: ooc-lang is best lang!
[05:46] konobi: OCaml is the best
[05:46] josephg: nah
[05:46] josephg: I do everything in ASM
[05:46] defunctzombie: don't feed the trolls
[05:46] SubStack: Aria: agree @ rails
[05:46] konobi: =0P
[05:46] josephg: everything else is just a bit of syntax sugar
[05:46] SubStack: ruby is neat, except the module system is annoying
[05:46] pksunkara: I write in binary
[05:46] pksunkara: :D
[05:46] Aria: Yeah. I wish Ruby had node-style modules, using closures.
[05:46] SubStack: rails ruined ruby a lot but rubygems also ruined ruby a little bit
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[05:47] josephg: pksunkara: pah! binary isn't even strongly typed!
[05:47] SubStack: yes!
[05:47] Aria: Yeah. Rubygems is right in there.
[05:47] SubStack: I hate having to look into the rdocs of a project to just see what it exports
[05:47] SubStack: in node I can just require('modulename') on the repl and it's super obvious
[05:47] marcello3d: defunctzombie: do you have any insight here? https://github.com/marcello3d/node-mongolian/issues/61
[05:47] Aria: Yeah.
[05:47] Lorentz: As if actually code, just grab a bunch of resistors, caps and transistors and get at soldering
[05:47] Aria: Aright. Off to bed with me. Something about killing 450 assertions makes me a sleepy girl.
[05:48] SubStack: more hacking for me tonight
[05:48] josephg: do people seriously avoid libraries written in coffeescript?
[05:48] josephg: that makes me sad
[05:48] marcello3d: josephg: I do
[05:48] Aria: josephg: I avoid them unless they seem perfect already.
[05:48] pksunkara: uber sad :(
[05:48] SubStack: I've been bouncing between projects all night.
[05:48] nicholasf: josephg: well, the only reason Im here is because of coffeescript
[05:48] SubStack: I should probably finish at least one of them.
[05:49] marcello3d: josephg: especially if all the examples are in coffeescript.
[05:49] defunctzombie: josephg: I do as well
[05:49] Aria: josephg: I really don't want to have to deal with the syntax to contribute or understand the code. So unless it's already really good, I get the old NIH symptoms.
[05:49] defunctzombie: marcello3d: they seem to have responded
[05:49] defunctzombie: and the lowercase thing was the problem
[05:49] Aria: Aright. Night!
[05:50] marcello3d: defunctzombie: yea, but the docs are inconsistent, and I never had a problem with the current spelling on 1.8...
[05:50] marcello3d: it's a bit worrisome that some random implementation is failing because of the case...
[05:50] defunctzombie: wow, well, if the docs are inconsistent that would be a mongo issue
[05:50] defunctzombie: yea.. welcome to mongo :)
[05:51] josephg: Hm. Well, I'm sad people might avoid my libraries because I write them in coffeescript
[05:51] defunctzombie: maybe it is gridfs specific?
[05:51] josephg: but I'm not sad enough to use javascript, because after using coffeecript, javascript seems unnecessarily awful
[05:51] marcello3d: defunctzombie: naw, gridfs is app-level
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[05:51] pksunkara: joseph: link your best coffee lib here
[05:51] pksunkara: josephg: link your best coffee lib here
[05:52] defunctzombie: ah
[05:52] defunctzombie: I did not know that
[05:52] defunctzombie: never used gridfs
[05:52] marcello3d: yea, it's just two collections, an index/metadata
[05:52] marcello3d: and then a collection of blocks
[05:52] josephg: pksunkara: 'best' is hard
[05:52] defunctzombie: wait..so what was the problem here... their install wants all lower case?
[05:52] marcello3d: yes
[05:53] defunctzombie: does all lower case work with other versions?
[05:53] josephg: pksunkara: http://josephg.github.com/node-browserchannel/docs/server.html
[05:53] marcello3d: let's see...
[05:53] defunctzombie: maybe 1.8 onward changed to lowercase?
[05:53] defunctzombie: or 1.8.x
[05:53] defunctzombie: cause they did not specify the point release
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[05:53] marcello3d: well I'm running 2.0
[05:53] marcello3d: and it works with getLastError
[05:54] marcello3d: seems to work with getlasterror, too
[05:54] marcello3d: let me look at the java driver
[05:54] marcello3d: they do lowercase
[05:54] defunctzombie: josephg: so the issue is that by writing it in coffeescript you did not save much space
[05:55] pksunkara: josephg: What you should do is, compile coffee to js before publishing and change coffee in readme to js
[05:55] defunctzombie: and just made it much harder for people to read who don't know cs
[05:55] defunctzombie: marcello3d: guess they required all lowercase before
[05:55] marcello3d: yea, that must be it
[05:55] marcello3d: I'll just switch it
[05:56] defunctzombie: josephg: I mean you basically just save the function keyword and the { } .. is it really worth it?
[05:56] defunctzombie: marcello3d: sounds right to me
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[05:57] josephg: pksunkara, defunctzombie: I don't program in coffeescript just to make the code terser
[05:57] josephg: though that certainly helps
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[05:57] marcello3d: defunctzombie: now I'm wondering which other methods might be other cases...
[05:57] marcello3d: like isMaster...
[05:57] pksunkara: then, what is your motivation to program in coffee ?
[05:57] defunctzombie: I would post a jira with 10gen
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[05:57] defunctzombie: and ask for clarification on the docs
[05:57] josephg: code like this: https://github.com/josephg/ShareJS/blob/master/src/server/model.coffee#L240-289 would be much longer in JS
[05:57] josephg: - and harder to read imo
[05:57] pksunkara: I do it because, it's easy to read, document and less code to write
[05:57] marcello3d: defunctzombie: lazy :D
[05:58] marcello3d: github really needs code search on the repo you're looking at
[05:58] pksunkara: it has but only in private repos
[05:58] josephg: pksunkara: would it make much difference publishing compiled JS?
[05:58] defunctzombie: josephg: that code is nested too much anyway and could probly be reformated to make less painful in normal js
[05:59] marcello3d: josephg: that code is pretty hard to read already
[05:59] josephg: defunctzombie: I disagree, actually.
[05:59] josephg: the code is pretty compilcated, already
[05:59] marcello3d: yea
[05:59] pksunkara: josephg: yes, the user using your module doesn't need coffeescript and time will be reduced to load the module
[05:59] defunctzombie: the reason it is "painful" is because it nests like 6 levels or more
[05:59] marcello3d: so clean up your code
[05:59] josephg: making it take more space wouldn't reduce its complexity
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[05:59] marcello3d: it's already too complicated
[05:59] josephg: its all essential complexity
[05:59] josephg: I can spread it around
[05:59] josephg: but then it would just take up more space
[05:59] defunctzombie: space is free
[06:00] marcello3d: no it's not
[06:00] pksunkara: marcello3d: the code intended is complicated
[06:00] marcello3d: bytes are expensive
[06:00] defunctzombie: breaking into smaller functions makes it clearer what is going on
[06:00] josephg: scrolling is expensive.
[06:00] defunctzombie: and what each thing is supposed to do
[06:00] defunctzombie: and you can test each component if you need to
[06:00] marcello3d: does coffeescript have good IDE support yet?
[06:00] josephg: marcello3d: no
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[06:00] josephg: defunctzombie: … maybe, in this case.
[06:01] defunctzombie: also, everthing in your else statements
[06:01] josephg: but I'm not convinced thats true in general.
[06:01] defunctzombie: could be unindented
[06:01] defunctzombie: if your first if just returned
[06:01] marcello3d: well... you asked why we would be less likely to use a CS module
[06:01] defunctzombie: that will save you an indentation level (which I think is your "complexity" here
[06:01] josephg: defunctzombie: thats a good point.
[06:01] secoif has joined the channel
[06:01] marcello3d: are you satisfied with the reasoning?
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[06:02] defunctzombie: also... I hate things like return blah blah unless
[06:02] defunctzombie: seems nice at first but just makes me read the line twice
[06:02] defunctzombie: since I first think it returns
[06:02] russfrank: it kinda confuses the control flow.
[06:02] josephg: defunctzombie: heh - I hate having a if (error) { callback(error); return; } everywhere
[06:02] defunctzombie: then only realize it returns on a specific case
[06:02] russfrank: things like that only make code less clear..
[06:02] zomg: defunctzombie: I recall there was some study which actually proved that in Perl it was unclear
[06:02] marcello3d: josephg: yea, that's why I made the safetynet function in mongolian
[06:03] zomg: Guess people will never learn
[06:03] zomg: =)
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[06:03] defunctzombie: josephg: make a control flow handler ;)
[06:03] josephg: if a line starts with 'return', and there is code underneath it, its obvious that the return is conditional
[06:03] marcello3d: coffeescript with fibers
[06:03] defunctzombie: zomg: haha
[06:03] pksunkara: josephg: compiling into js before publishing is good cuz the user using your module doesn't need coffeescript as dependency and the time needed to load the module will be reduced
[06:03] defunctzombie: josephg: or an error
[06:03] defunctzombie: "obvious" is relative
[06:04] marcello3d: josephg: wasn't obvious to me until defunctzombie explained it...but I wasn't looking that closely
[06:04] defunctzombie: I can just as easily assume that to be unreachable code and question it
[06:04] josephg: defunctzombie: … um, I suppose - that pattern is extremely common in all the javascript I write
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[06:04] josephg:  / coffeescript
[06:04] josephg: maybe I should try a safety net function like marcello3d suggests though
[06:05] josephg: - thats quite clever.
[06:05] russfrank: hence why i don't use coffeescript :]
[06:05] marcello3d: I don't know if it's a good idea, it's just what I ended up with....
[06:05] defunctzombie: also, the last line with add docName, error, data, etc
[06:05] josephg: I think there are two issues here - one is that I have long, twisty functions, and the other is coffeescript
[06:05] marcello3d: https://github.com/marcello3d/node-mongolian/blob/master/lib/util.js
[06:05] defunctzombie: is very strange to me
[06:05] defunctzombie: looks too much like a variable definition
[06:05] defunctzombie: is it a function call?
[06:05] defunctzombie: or a return statement?
[06:06] Advant: Anyone know what good/acceptable hit ratio with memcached is?
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[06:06] josephg: defunctzombie: its a function call.
[06:06] josephg: - its obviously not a variable definition
[06:06] defunctzombie: but isn't the last line of any function in cs also the return?
[06:06] josephg: yes, but that code is in a callback
[06:06] russfrank: yeah coffee is one of those we don't need parens for anything! languages
[06:06] josephg: so returning there is kinda meaningless (unless getOpsInternal does something special with the callback's return value, which you never do)
[06:07] defunctzombie: right.. so I am saying it is not clear from the source what is intended
[06:07] marcello3d: russfrank: probably abused by lisp as a child
[06:07] defunctzombie: hahaha
[06:07] russfrank: 
ACTION laughs

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[06:07] josephg: I think its pretty clear that its not a variable definition
[06:07] marcello3d: child abuse is nothing to laugh about
[06:07] defunctzombie: the syntax should not have uncertainty imho
[06:07] russfrank: josephg: you write lots of coffee :]
[06:07] russfrank: of course you think it's clear
[06:07] russfrank: i don't at all, though!
[06:08] josephg: russfrank: yes. and I expect anyone reading my code to know coffeescript
[06:08] josephg: which is perhaps arrogant of me, but thats my perogative
[06:08] marcello3d: that's fine, you're more than welcome to expect that
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[06:08] marcello3d: but that's also why non-coffeescript developers are less likely to use the module
[06:08] josephg: yep.
[06:09] russfrank: its hard for me to verify your program for correctness if it uses some pretty weird looking syntax..
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[06:09] josephg: hah - I have more tests than code
[06:09] maxogden: i wrote a big js patch for josephg's project a while back and received back a bunch of coffeescript propaganda :P
[06:09] marcello3d: russfrank: now that's just being languagist ;D
[06:09] defunctzombie: hahaha
[06:09] josephg: maxogden: :D - though I accepted the patch without changing it to coffeescript
[06:09] lazyshot has joined the channel
[06:10] marcello3d: does CS let you inline JS?
[06:10] josephg: yep
[06:10] josephg: you can put it in backticks ``
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[06:10] josephg: anyway, I'll consider building it and publishing a compiled module (to remove the coffeescript dependancy)
[06:11] josephg: and I think defunctzombie's point about a lot of the complexity coming from indentation is spot on
[06:11] josephg: - I think unindenting my else blocks is a good idea
[06:11] josephg: (well, refactoring it so there's a return at the end of the if)
[06:11] josephg: my examples are all already in javascript
[06:11] marcello3d: josephg: I think if you want to attract JS developers to use a CS module you'll need to appeal to them in the docs "you can use this with JS, too. here's an example/how to use:"
[06:12] josephg: marcello3d: Scroll down:
[06:12] josephg: https://github.com/josephg/ShareJS/blob/master/README.md
[06:12] josephg: all the examples are already in JS
[06:13] marcello3d: josephg: I saw that, actually, wasn't sure if that module was cs
[06:13] josephg: marcello3d: to me, its not important. coffeescript is learnable in about 2 hours
[06:13] marcello3d: you're not going to learn it unless you want to, though
[06:14] Pritchard: Ho'kay.  Now officially stalking a friend on github :)
[06:14] Pritchard: It feels good to have friends in AUTHOR files...
[06:14] josephg: Yes. I'll scare off potential developers who don't want to learn it
[06:14] marcello3d: being aware of the syntax, and crafting elegant code in a language are very different
[06:14] marcello3d: I would say you haven't learned a language until you fall in the latter end of the spectrum
[06:15] Pritchard: 
ACTION loves OSS for that bragging right, among many other reasons.

[06:15] marcello3d: I might be able to read and possibly even hobble together some coffeescript, but I've hardly learned it
[06:15] josephg: marcello3d: yeah, true - though you're still dangerous in coffeescript long before then
[06:15] r04r has joined the channel
[06:15] josephg: 
ACTION nods

[06:15] josephg: its true that the way I've written my coffeescript has changed a fair bit since learning the language
[06:16] josephg: in any case, thankyou guys for all the comments (marcello3d, Pritchard, defunctzombie, pksunkara)
[06:16] Pritchard: 
ACTION forks Node.js

[06:16] josephg: … and maxogden 
[06:16] josephg: I appreciate the code review :)
[06:16] Pritchard: I'll be in the authors file some day!  Just you wait D:<
[06:16] josephg: :D
[06:16] marcello3d: :)
[06:16] defunctzombie: :)
[06:17] materialdesigner has joined the channel
[06:17] pksunkara: :)
[06:18] marcello3d: alright. I'm out. have a good night
[06:18] Pritchard: See ya.
[06:18] josephg: yep, me too
[06:18] josephg: cya!
[06:18] Pritchard: So long.
[06:18] defunctzombie: peace
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[07:04] runvnc: npm was working great.. not sure what I did but now when I type npm it says cannot find module '[currentworkingdirectory/node'
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[07:08] muiz: dear all, I'm study node.js to develop a small cms system  these days. if I modify a js file, then I need to restart the node http server, is it correct? it cannot load auto. 
[07:08] defunctzombie: muiz: check out nodemon
[07:09] tomlion has joined the channel
[07:10] muiz: thanks defunctzombie, do you mean the chat demo?
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[07:11] defunctzombie: ?
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[07:13] pksunkara: josephg: http://pkumar.github.com/10-23-2011/nodejs-module-in-coffee.html
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[07:27] wereHamster: is there a way to silence npm (other than &>/dev/null)?
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[07:37] Bonuspunk: wereHamster npm config set loglevel <valueIForget>
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[07:38] runvnc: It seems like I have confused this waf-light thing .. configure doesn't work in the node install dir.. when I run waf-light by itself it says cannot find module 'currentdir/python'
[07:39] wereHamster: Bonuspunk: thanks. silent: Show no output. Nothing. If there is output on stderr, it's because something is broken.
[07:39] wereHamster: but I don't want to set it globally, just for that one invocation
[07:40] slajax has joined the channel
[07:40] wereHamster: oh, Note that output to stdout is always printed. This setting just modifies what's logged to stderr.  
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[07:45] Pritchard: Hi guys.  I've downloaded and built v8.  (I'm proud of myself.)
[07:46] Pritchard: Should I install node.js from here?
[07:47] r04r has joined the channel
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[07:47] zomg: Pritchard: huh?
[07:47] zomg: You don't need to separately dl and build v8 for node
[07:48] Pritchard: Oh well too late :(
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[07:48] zomg: Well who doesn't enjoy staring at make's output
[07:48] zomg: =)
[07:48] Pritchard: lol
[07:49] Pritchard: I might end up skipping school tomorrow because it's 3 AM and I'm still playing with this.
[07:49] Pritchard: x_x
[07:49] maxogden: welcome to the first day of the rest of your life
[07:50] Pritchard: Cool.  Where do I put myself?
[07:50] Pritchard: ... Oh right, github.
[07:50] maxogden: :)
[07:50] Pritchard: But I'm going to "borrow" some of your stuff, too ;)
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[07:55] runvnc: Anyone know what to do to get things back so I can configure the node.js build? https://gist.github.com/1381968
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[07:56] runvnc: I am make uninstalling and redownloading from git and stuff but something is making that configure thing run an old node or something weird and I dont want to rebuild the whole server
[07:56] shanebo: any regex jedis up in heah?
[07:56] zomg: What are you trying to install/build? node itself?
[07:56] zomg: shanebo: maybe
[07:56] runvnc: yes trying to reinstall node because
[07:57] zomg: runvnc: so what command is causing that output?
[07:57] r04r has joined the channel
[07:57] runvnc: ./configure
[07:57] runvnc: in node directory
[07:57] runvnc: or
[07:57] runvnc: when I go into tools
[07:57] runvnc: and run waf-light by itself
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[07:57] runvnc: everything pretty much now causes some variation of that cannot find module
[07:57] shanebo: zomg, I'm needing '$contains(value)' "contains" and "value" matched dynamically here. meaning contains and value won't always be what's there
[07:57] runvnc: thats why I was trying to reinstall node
[07:57] simenbrekken has joined the channel
[07:57] runvnc: but I cant even run configure
[07:58] zomg: runvnc: not sure but why would ./configure'ing node run node? o_O
[07:58] Pritchard: What do you guys use to edit and compile your node.js code?
[07:58] groom has joined the channel
[07:58] runvnc: I use vim. seems like most mac people are on textmate or sublime
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[07:58] zomg: shanebo: something like /\$(.*?)\((.*?)\)/
[07:59] runvnc: yeah.. why.. would configuring onde run node
[07:59] shanebo: zomg, usually something like this works but it's null: http://jsfiddle.net/mWA8n/
[07:59] runvnc: I guess I just have to wipe the server and start over
[07:59] runvnc: unless I can find something that must be fooling it into thinking that node is installed. its like its not completely uninstalled I think
[07:59] zomg: runvnc: try make clean or make purge or whatever it is
[07:59] braoru has joined the channel
[07:59] zomg: and then run configure again from the root of the dir where you cloned the git repo
[07:59] shanebo: zomg, that worked. thanks!
[08:00] zomg: shanebo: on a second thought, you might want .+ instead of .* since otherwise it will match $()
[08:00] runvnc: ok good idea zomg
[08:00] runvnc: Nothing to clean (project not configured)
[08:00] zomg: also it probably will screw up if you have something like $foo(bar())
[08:00] runvnc: fml
[08:00] jesusabdullah: Is it just me, or is c# actually kind of an alright language?
[08:01] zomg: jesusabdullah: it is
[08:01] zomg: =)
[08:01] runvnc: c# to me is definitely one of the most advanced and useful languages
[08:01] runvnc: unquestionably
[08:01] tuhoojabotti: It's pretty nice.
[08:01] runvnc: more advanced than JS in a lot of ways
[08:01] tuhoojabotti: Haven't used it alot though.
[08:01] runvnc: although
[08:01] runvnc: its funny how hard C# people are trying now to be more like JS
[08:01] runvnc: I like CoffeeScript
[08:02] r04r has joined the channel
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[08:02] tuhoojabotti: I'm a teapot.
[08:02] tuhoojabotti: 418
[08:02] zomg: I dunno if C# is more advanced than JS though
[08:02] secoif has joined the channel
[08:02] zomg: It's just different =)
[08:02] tuhoojabotti: Better not compare them.
[08:02] shanebo: zomg yeah I'll play with whether to enable global or not on the regex
[08:02] shanebo: thanks again for the help!
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[08:03] jesusabdullah: Well, I don't care too much about "advanced" really, I just like it when I can do stuff and this doesn't look too bad
[08:03] runvnc: I am not afraid to make everyone in here hate me.. no one is going to like me anyway
[08:03] zomg: shanebo: np
[08:03] jesusabdullah: I was looking at programming jobs back in ol' AK, and I guess a lot of places are windows shops
[08:03] runvnc: I say that it is more advanced in that it has more sophisticated features
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[08:03] jesusabdullah: which was why I was lookin'
[08:03] runvnc: I have been avoiding c# and .net for a few years though because Microsoft is evil
[08:04] runvnc: and its a closed platform etc.
[08:04] jesusabdullah: the clr is comparable to the jvm right?
[08:04] jesusabdullah: runvnc: what about mono?
[08:04] runvnc: yes but much better than the jvm
[08:04] runvnc: unquestionably
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[08:04] runvnc: mono is cool jesus I have played with it a bit
[08:04] jesusabdullah: I can run things kinda fasts
[08:04] jesusabdullah: I mean
[08:04] tuhoojabotti: runvnc<3
[08:04] runvnc: I think v8 is more lightweight though
[08:04] zomg: well C#'s "advanced" stuff is mostly the .NET framework I think
[08:04] jesusabdullah: I was gonna see what there was for numerical things
[08:04] zomg: And I guess it gives you certain things in a more familiar style, but you can emulate most of its features in JS as well
[08:05] zomg: So I guess you could in a way consider it as such
[08:05] runvnc: I'm not saying we are really missing those features
[08:05] runvnc: because the dynamic stuff in js trumps most of it
[08:05] runvnc: I mean, not really missing _most_ of them
[08:05] Nuck: Why are there no Node conferences named "Cinco de Node.js"?
[08:06] Nuck: Seriously?
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[08:07] zomg: since I don't speak spanish cinco de mayo always makes me think it's some sort of mayonnaise day
[08:07] zomg: =)
[08:07] Nuck: That's cause it is
[08:08] konobi: well... i always think of guacamole as spanish mayonaise
[08:08] Nuck: zomg: It's a day remembering when a big shipment of mayonnaise was sunk en route to Mexico
[08:08] Nuck: Adn they really love Mayo
[08:08] konobi: but far more delicious
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[08:08] Nuck: konobi: Also guacamole is made from fruits
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[08:09] zomg: Nuck: lol =)
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[08:12] shedinja: what is the fastest hash algorithm in the crypto module?
[08:13] Nuck: shedinja: Depends on your purposes?
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[08:13] shedinja: Nuck: I want to get the hash sum of a file
[08:13] Nuck: Ah
[08:13] konobi: XOR encryption, if ciourse
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[08:13] Nuck: lol
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[08:14] Nuck: MD5 is usually the accepted checksum for files
[08:14] konobi: depends on what you're using the sum for
[08:14] Nuck: Very true
[08:14] konobi: cach validation? or
[08:14] Nuck: 
ACTION validates his cash

[08:14] Nuck: Yup, is money.
[08:16] shedinja: konobi: just to identify the contents of a file. i'm making an uploader and i want to know if a file has already been uploaded
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[08:16] konobi: cache validation then... i'd assume SHA1 would be fine
[08:17] Nuck: Yeah SHA1 is probably best
[08:17] Nuck: or MD5
[08:17] Nuck: 
ACTION wonders what Dropbox uses

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[08:18] konobi: why not use bcrypt
[08:18] shedinja: cool thanks
[08:18] shedinja: konobi: isn't bcrypt designed to be slow?
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[08:19] konobi: no... it's variable
[08:19] konobi: you can control it's "factor"
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[08:20] Nuck: bcrypt is designed for security
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[08:20] Nuck: Not really for verification
[08:20] Nuck: If all you need is simple verification, MD5 or SHA1, an insecure hash algorithm, should suffice
[08:21] Nuck: bcrypt in this situation is really overkill
[08:21] konobi: Nuck: yeah... it's always good to get people into the habit of using bcrypt though
[08:21] sorensen: anyone have trouble npm'ing bcrypt?
[08:21] shedinja: Nuck: yeah I don't need security for this
[08:21] sorensen: i've had to build it from source
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[08:21] Nuck: konobi: Yes, but we shouldn't be advocating people to use a hammer instead of a screwdriver just so they just get used to using a hammer for nails
[08:21] sorensen: Nuck: long time no see
[08:22] Nuck: sorensen: hehe I've been sick the past few days :P
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[08:22] sorensen: heh, i think its been weeks
[08:22] sorensen: works got me django'in like crazy
[08:22] Nuck: sorensen: ah fun
[08:22] sorensen: so they say
[08:23] Nuck: shedinja: If you need to store passwords, absolutely use bcrypt.  In fact, don't ever use anything BUT bcrypt!
[08:23] Pritchard: Ahhh
[08:23] Pritchard: How do I test a Node.js server I had running at localhost from my internet browser?
[08:23] sorensen: Pritchard: scary movie?
[08:23] Pritchard: I have a hello world server running right now.
[08:24] Nuck: However, if you're just checking "oh does this file exist", then use MD5 or SHA1 or something
[08:24] sorensen: http://localhost
[08:24] Nuck: Pritchard: http://localhost
[08:24] Nuck: :port
[08:24] sorensen: hehe
[08:24] Nuck: If you have a port on it
[08:24] sorensen: he likely does
[08:24] ph^_ has joined the channel
[08:24] Nuck: sorensen: Yeah
[08:24] Pritchard: I'm getting XMLHttpRequest Exception 101 (Google Chrome)
[08:25] dnjaramba has joined the channel
[08:25] sorensen: i need to turn the bass down, every time you reference my name my apartment shakes
[08:25] Pritchard: When I was entering the IP manually it was giving me a cross-origin error.
[08:25] Nuck: Pritchard: o_O Is that in the Developer Console?
[08:25] Pritchard: Nuck:  Yes.
[08:25] Nuck: Pritchard: What address are you attempting to perform XHR to?
[08:25] Nuck: o_O
[08:25] Pritchard: "http://localhost:1337"
[08:25] sorensen: Pritchard++
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[08:26] Nuck: Pritchard: Is your server listening on Port 1337?
[08:26] sorensen: the most epic of ports
[08:26] tuhoojabotti: sorensen: Need moar bass.
[08:26] sorensen: hahahha
[08:26] Pritchard: Oh snap!  My server just crashed :)
[08:26] Pritchard: Well this is a good thing.  It means the request went through because it crashed in the callback.
[08:27] sorensen: y u no moar bass!?
[08:27] v8bot_ has joined the channel
[08:27] sorensen: 
ACTION turns it up

[08:27] Pritchard: Okay.  Fixed the error in my server callback.
[08:27] Youdaman has joined the channel
[08:27] Nuck: sorensen: Now you can ++ ;)
[08:27] mange has joined the channel
[08:27] Pritchard: Still getting an exception.  And yes, the server's running on port 1337.
[08:27] sorensen: Pritchard++
[08:27] Dreamer3__ has joined the channel
[08:27] v8bot_:  sorensen has given a beer to Pritchard. Pritchard now has 1 beers.
[08:27] sorensen: there we go
[08:27] Pritchard: :D
[08:27] sorensen: first time i saw someone run on port 1337
[08:27] Nuck: Pritchard: And you're at localhost:1337, and you're attempting to perform an XHR request to localhost:1337?
[08:27] pquerna: ddopson++ // node-zookeeper port to v0.6
[08:27] Nuck: Eait
[08:27] Nuck: Wait
[08:27] Pritchard: Nuck:  Yeah.
[08:27] tuhoojabotti: sorensen++
[08:27] catb0t: sorensen now has 1 beer
[08:27] v8bot_:  tuhoojabotti has given a beer to sorensen. sorensen now has 2 beers.
[08:28] Nuck: Pritchard: Change your XHR to /
[08:28] Nuck: Pritchard: No domain or port
[08:28] sorensen: aww yea
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[08:28] Pritchard: Nuck:  request.open( "POST", "http://localhost:1337", false );
[08:28] Nuck: I think it doesn't accept a domain or port because it can't go across domains IIRC
[08:28] Nuck: o_O
[08:28] Nuck: Pritchard: Is that XHR2?
[08:29] sorensen: heres a relevant question: at what point do you kill a project
[08:29] Pritchard: That's... XMLHttpRequest.
[08:29] Nuck: Looks like it
[08:29] herbySk has joined the channel
[08:29] Pritchard: I'm making the server request using the standard XMLHttpRequest object.
[08:29] Nuck: Pritchard: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XMLHttpRequest this might help a bit
[08:30] Nuck: Pritchard: The problem appears not to be Node.js, but in your client-side JS :)
[08:30] Pritchard: I use XMLHttpRequest all the time :-/
[08:30] Nuck: The XHR is being seen as cross-domain
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[08:30] runvnc: You can set a header to allow cross origin
[08:30] Pritchard: Oh yeah?
[08:30] runvnc: but I dont think thats what you want
[08:30] Pritchard: I just want it "to work" right now.
[08:30] Pritchard: So I can go to sleep.
[08:30] Nuck: Pritchard: Do you always explicitly put the domain in your XHR?
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[08:30] Nuck: Or do you jsut XHR a path?
[08:31] runvnc: I say go to bed and try it with jquery tomorrow
[08:31] Pritchard: Nuck:  Hum.  Good question.
[08:31] Pritchard: I want the most minimalistic example I can possibly build.
[08:31] Nuck: haha
[08:32] Nuck: jQuery is good for minimalistic examples IMHO
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[08:32] Nuck: It's a framework which cuts development time
[08:32] Pritchard: Nuck:  See, the last AJAX app I wrote communicated with ASP.NET web services on my server.
[08:32] Nuck: Pritchard: LOL ASP.NET
[08:32] Nuck: I haven't seen ASP in YEARS
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[08:32] Pritchard: Oh yeah?  That's where the jobs are where I live :(
[08:32] Nuck: Does MS still support that?
[08:32] Nuck: Pritchard: Really?
[08:32] Pritchard: ASP.NET, yeah.
[08:32] Pritchard: We're not talking classic ASP.
[08:32] Nuck: Most jobs in web dev seem to be rails or PHP nowadays
[08:33] Pritchard: That's entirely different.
[08:33] Nuck: I know
[08:33] Pritchard: Okay.
[08:33] Nuck: MS is killing off .NET nowadays
[08:33] Nuck: Slowly abandoning it
[08:33] Pritchard: Shame.  That's what they're teaching us in school.
[08:33] Nuck: Pritchard: They still teach Java in many schools
[08:33] `10`: i'm using socket.io for a variety of things, and the one pattern that comes up all the time is request->response.  any suggestions for a library that provides this?  socket.io doesn't seem to have the concept of middleware in any docs
[08:33] Pritchard: They're ASP.NET/SQL Server fans here.
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[08:33] Nuck: Doesn't mean it's realistic
[08:33] Nuck: Pritchard: They teach Java and Visual Basic at my college
[08:33] Pritchard: They're placing jobs.  I think one program in particular has a near 100% job placement rate...
[08:33] Nuck: Neither of which is really applicable
[08:34] `10`: right now i'm duplicating and fragmenting functionality across rest and socket.io when it doesn't really make sense
[08:34] Pritchard: IDK.  Last I checked for jobs in my area, there were tons of PHP and jQuery jobs, but tons of ASP.NET/C# jobs as well.
[08:34] Pritchard: Tbh, I think Ohio is behind.
[08:34] Nuck: Pritchard: I don't think any big companies use PHP or ASP.NET anymore
[08:34] Nuck: Pritchard: Most big companies are on Rails these days
[08:34] Nuck: Though
[08:34] Nuck: Facebook still uses PHP
[08:35] Pritchard: A lot of sites still use PHP, just like a lot of sites still use .NET.
[08:35] Pritchard: It's expensive to change infrastructures.
[08:35] igl: never seen a company use rails for a "big" website
[08:35] Nuck: `10`: If you're doing request-response, maybe Socket.io isn't the thing you're looking for?
[08:35] Nuck: igl: Github?
[08:35] Nuck: igl: Twitter?
[08:35] Nuck: IIRC, Twitter originally used Rails
[08:36] Nuck: I *know* Github uses rails
[08:36] sorensen: if you think ohio is behind, try nebraska
[08:36] Nuck: 
ACTION is happily in California

[08:36] Nuck: My city is stuck in "WHAT'S THIS NEWFANGLED THING?"
[08:36] Nuck: But if I go 100 miles to the west
[08:36] Nuck: I'm in Node.js territory
[08:37] Nuck: (Which is actually harder than it sounds)
[08:37] Pritchard: Yeah, they're working hard to place me in VB.NET/C# jobs here.
[08:37] `10`: Nuck: for example, server->client request->response
[08:38] Pritchard: I like .NET, really.  Not a big fan of PHP.  I like JavaScript a lot.
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[08:38] `10`: Nuck: though there are a variety of other possibilities, and cases where i want more complex patterns than request->response
[08:38] Pritchard: So I have ASP.NET webservices, but I don't use any builtin ASP.NET tools on the client-side.  Just JavaScript.
[08:38] Pritchard: SQL Server is nice, too.
[08:38] Pritchard: I custom-built the javascript to talk to ASP.NET webservices.
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[08:39] Pritchard: It's reflective and allows for both synchronous and asynchronous calls.
[08:39] `10`: Nuck: rather than deal with the peculiarities of rest for these (and more standard) scenarios, using an inherently bidirectional transport makes sense
[08:39] Nuck: `10`: Honestly, for request-response, I'd strongly advise you to just use a basic RESTful API?
[08:39] Nuck: `10`: Use bidirectional where it's needed, use REST where it's best :P
[08:40] `10`: Nuck: rest doesn't allow you to do a request->response pattern initiated by the server ;)
[08:40] Nuck: `10`: That's not request-response then ;)
[08:40] Nuck: `10`: That's a bidirectional communication you're looking for
[08:40] Nuck: :P
[08:40] `10`: Nuck: sure it is; the server is making a request, and the client is responding; it's not the identities of the endpoints that make the pattern
[08:41] konobi: socket.io?
[08:41] `3rdEden: socket.io all the things
[08:42] `10`: konobi, `3rdEden: the original question: i'm using socket.io for a variety of things, and the one pattern that comes up all the time is request->response.  any suggestions for a library that provides this?  socket.io doesn't seem to have the concept of middleware in any docs
[08:42] Nuck: `3rdEden: Socket.IO FTW
[08:43] Nuck: `10`: We're young, sometimes you gotta make your own tools :D
[08:43] Nuck: And sometimes you gotta be SubStack and just invent ALL the tools.
[08:43] Nuck: ;D
[08:43] sorensen: lol
[08:43] sorensen: all of the tools!
[08:43] Nuck: ALL THE TOOLS!
[08:44] sorensen: screen cap that
[08:44] sorensen: for the glory of SubStack
[08:44] Nuck: 
ACTION CBA to change his console's transparency

[08:44] SubStack: what what
[08:44] Nuck: SubStack: In the butt?
[08:44] SubStack: I fix existing tools sometimes too.
[08:45] Nuck: laiz
[08:45] konobi: `10`: that's what http is for
[08:45] SubStack: Like this: https://github.com/jesusabdullah/node-ecstatic/pull/2
[08:45] `10`: that's fine, but before i patch or extend socket.io, i'd like to know if anyone has code for this hiding somewhere
[08:45] arcatan: "rewrote everything"
[08:45] Nuck: Holy shit 15 commits
[08:45] Nuck: SubStack: What arcatan said
[08:46] konobi: `10`: like http.js?
[08:46] Nuck: `10`: Try wrapping socket.io instead?
[08:46] Nuck: konobi: He wants bidirectional request-response
[08:46] `10`: konobi: yes, and that is basically what is going on now for some things, but socket.io is a bit more general and lightweight.  the example i used where http just doesn't fit correctly is request->response initiated by the server
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[08:47] SubStack: arcatan: well it was just a stub doing fs.readFileSync when I got to it
[08:47] arcatan: :)
[08:47] `10`: Nuck: or all of the above; it'll depend on what makes sense having had a close look at the code
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[08:47] Nuck: `10`: I strongly advise just working around it and listing socket.io as a dependency
[08:47] konobi: `10`: you can attach socket.io to a http server in the same app and key it off a namespace
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[08:48] Pritchard: Well what do you know...
[08:48] Nuck: Pritchard: I know all the things.
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[08:48] Pritchard: Configuring the XMLHttpRequest as synchronous led to the error.
[08:48] `10`: konobi: yep, i'm doing that, but not sure how it solves, e.g. server initiated requests
[08:49] Pritchard: Performing an async request doesn't throw one any more.
[08:49] Nuck: Pritchard: Well good, because sync should rot in hell anyways
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[08:49] `10`: konobi: socket.io is great but it'd be nice to have a layer on the socket that lets me do other patterns, e.g. expecting a response to an emit()
[08:50] Pritchard: Nuck:  It has its uses.
[08:50] Nuck: Pritchard: NEVAR
[08:50] `10`: yes, i can just wrap socket.io and include an extra _id property or similar to use for matching replies to requests
[08:50] Pritchard: Let's say you wanted to execute JavaScript before the page finishes loading.
[08:50] konobi: `10`: send the client an event telling it to download something?
[08:50] Nuck: `10`: Actually might be easier, if socket.io follows FIFO
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[08:51] Nuck: Pritchard: You shouldn't.  You should execute whenever the browser has a chance :V
[08:51] `10`: konobi: yeah, but that usage of socket.io isn't necessary for new applications
[08:51] Nuck: Pritchard: Blocking the page from loading is actually a great way to lose visitors
[08:52] Pritchard: Nuck:  It's not "blocking the page from loading" it's "ensuring the presence of all content".
[08:52] konobi: `10`: eh?
[08:52] Nuck: Pritchard: Content shouldn't be handled in JS
[08:52] [AD]Turbo: holq
[08:52] Pritchard: If this happens within a fairly short period of time (less than a second) it's really not an issue.
[08:52] Nuck: Pritchard: HTML is content, CSS is formatting, JS is interactivity
[08:52] Pritchard: Nuck:  Content is generated from JS all the time.
[08:52] Pritchard: That's what AJAX is, Nuck.
[08:53] Nuck: Pritchard: Not at all.  As I recall, Amazon shaved 100ms off pageloads and cut 30% off their bounce rate
[08:53] Nuck: Pritchard: AJAX shouldn't block pageloads
[08:53] Nuck: That's the entire PURPOSE of AJAX
[08:53] `10`: konobi: what i'm saying is, there's no need to use socket.io as just a backup solution that gives you the ability to notify the client, when you could just use it as a true bidirectional transport as you would a socket in desktop application development
[08:53] konobi: there are multiple books on the subject
[08:53] Pritchard: Nuck:  That's its most common use.  But there are possible exceptions.
[08:54] Nuck: Pritchard: That's the purpose of AJAX.  If you're still blocking page rendering, then you're Doing it Wrong.
[08:54] Pritchard: Anything that serves pages to the user blocks the page load until the serve is completes.
[08:54] konobi: `10`: so from the server, you want the client to "magically" know that it needs to download something from the server?
[08:54] `3rdEden: if you are using request response why don't you just use the events api?
[08:54] Nuck: Pritchard: Yes, but the question is whether you're showing them something pretty or just a blank screen
[08:54] `3rdEden: socket.emit('do this') socket.on('on this response', function () { alert('pew pew') })
[08:54] Nuck: Pritchard: You want to make it look like you're doing something even for those 100 milliseconds
[08:54] chjj: lasers!
[08:54] Nuck: Hence why you don't block page rendering
[08:55] Nuck: You show a blank page if you must
[08:55] Nuck: But by god it's got the menu bar!
[08:55] `10`: konobi: clearly not.  e.g. i needn't tell the client "you should go get this data using an http request" when i could just tell it "here's some data"
[08:55] Nuck: And the logo's there too!
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[08:55] Pritchard: Heh.
[08:55] Pritchard: Maybe :)
[08:55] Nuck: And it's obviously doing something, considering the "loading" text :P
[08:55] konobi: `10`: that's just an event
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[08:55] Nuck: Pritchard: I was a web designer in a past life :B
[08:55] Nuck: Or past plans
[08:55] Nuck: Same difference
[08:55] Pritchard: Sounds like fun.
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[08:56] Pritchard: I'm currently designing my personal website.
[08:56] Pritchard: The content panel's the only thing that's really going to change, and it's going to be through AJAX.
[08:56] Nuck: I'm working to start a company :D
[08:56] Nuck: Pritchard: You should render the entire page except that frame, then use JSON and render on the clientside :P
[08:56] `10`: konobi: that's just an event, yes; as is what you were talking about, so far as i can tell.  clearly, socket.io does this.  what i'm saying is, consider e.g. rpc where the server calls a method in the client and the client is expected to return a value
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[08:56] Pritchard: :)
[08:56] Pritchard: I might take that advice.
[08:57] Nuck: I wanted to use REST for my entire startup'
[08:57] Nuck: But... Well, it would've been a pain in the ass
[08:57] konobi: `10`: ah... so RPC
[08:57] konobi: there's rpc stuff that sits atop socket.io, iirc
[08:57] Nuck: So we're just doing a basic site with Handlebars templates, then we'll probably use something like those cool pushState-using client-side Express-ish frameworks
[08:58] Nuck: When we have more time, of course
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[08:58] Nuck: But because client and server are both JS, this should be easy enough :D
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[08:58] Nuck: Another Node.js success story :P
[08:59] Nuck: hmph
[08:59] Nuck: 
ACTION should probably sleep soon

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[09:01] `10`: konobi: yeah, not specifically rpc, e.g. you can imagine more complex patterns involving replies that are themselves requests (e.g. three-way handshaking), requests that expect a stream of replies, etc.
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[09:02] `10`: konobi: that said, rpc is the one i miss most at this point, and i can deal without streaming responses for the time being
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[09:02] Nuck: `10`: "requests with mutliple replies" - so like a request that has a stream as a response?
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[09:02] `10`: Nuck: that was one of the examples, yes
[09:02] konobi: `10`: all of that is possible... at the right level of abstraction
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[09:03] konobi: but if you're asking if ther eis ONE TRUE LIBRARY... then i'd say no
[09:03] `3rdEden: `10` checkout nowjs it's build on top of socket.io
[09:03] `10`: konobi: sure, clearly, socket.io provides a great foundation to start with, and i don't want to duplicate its efforts
[09:03] `3rdEden: http://nowjs.com/
[09:03] Nuck: Also we have a lot more @s in here than I recall o_O
[09:03] Nuck: `3rdEden: Was actually just thinking of that
[09:03] aaronmcadam has joined the channel
[09:04] `3rdEden: thoughts are good Nuck
[09:04] `3rdEden: ++Nuck
[09:04] Nuck: `3rdEden: Not for me.  For me they hurt.
[09:04] `3rdEden: ;(
[09:04] Nuck: ;3
[09:04] Nuck: `3rdEden: Other people, not me
[09:04] Nuck: They don't hurt me
[09:04] Nuck: :D
[09:04] `3rdEden: :D
[09:04] `10`: `3rdEden: super.  re: rpc this is as close to exactly what i was looking for as i could have hoped. thanks.
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[09:06] konobi: Nuck: =0P
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[09:06] lzskiss: yo
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[09:08] konobi: Nuck: gotta keep the trolls at bay =0)
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[09:11] Nuck: konobi: What bay?
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[09:11] Nuck: East bay?
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[09:12] sorensen: north inland bay?
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[09:51] zomg: Haha :D
[09:51] zomg: A friend of mine was googling for npm
[09:52] zomg: His first result: Nakkilan Py�r� ja Mopo - which translates to something like "Nakkila Bike and Moped" :D
[09:52] zomg: Nakkila is a muncipality of Finland
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[10:26] secoif: can someone explain what the deal is with "Providing filename argument in the callback is not supported on every platform (currently it's only supported on Linux and Windows)."
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[10:26] secoif: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.6.2/api/fs.html#fs.watch
[10:26] secoif: wtf is wrong with OS X
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[10:29] augustl: secoif: nothing wrong, probably
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[10:30] augustl: the APIs are just different, and I guess they haven't had time to implement it?
[10:30] secoif: hrm, i have a feeling it's causing some strange behaviour in some libraries
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[10:39] augustl: seems like it only triggers when watching a directory, not individual files?
[10:40] augustl: guess a workaround could be to watch individual files and also watch the directory, and when the directory event triggers walk the file system and watch individual files again
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[10:41] secoif: augustl there's also a funny issue where fs.watch appears to trigger two events for a file creation…
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[10:41] augustl: neat
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[10:42] augustl: what's the value of 'event' in that case?
[10:42] augustl: two change events?
[10:42] secoif: augustl 2 x { '0': 'rename', '1': null }
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[10:42] augustl: :S
[10:42] secoif: that's a console.log(arguments) on the fs.watch callback
[10:43] augustl: and you're certain the file isn't actually being created and then updated?
[10:43] secoif: in my test case i link in a fixture
[10:43] secoif: but I can trigger same behaviour with a 
[10:43] secoif: touch someFile
[10:43] secoif: in the watched dir
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[10:45] secoif: I think I'll have to do something like, cache the dir contents, and trigger a check for changes whenever I get any event from fs.watch
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[10:48] msied: anybody home?
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[10:59] bzen: hi, has anybody here connected nodejs with processing? i'm trying this with a udp socket, but i can't manage to read the received object properly!? an example or a hint would be great
[11:00] msied: i'm stuck at uploading images. fml
[11:01] msied: node-formidable has failed me
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[11:07] negrete: hello everyone, could you please help me with a small question? When an app tries to open a TCP port, is it possible to assign the port only with "process.env.PORT" and forbid the declaration of a specific port (e.g. process.env.PORT || 3000)?
[11:08] negrete: any help would be very appreciated
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[11:21] TheCode: what is a good way to manage a lot of route definitions in Express? the app.js file is getting overcrowded.
[11:21] hipsterslapfight: TheCode: i use lib/routes.js
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[11:26] TheCode: how do you use it?
[11:27] TheCode: don't see any lib/routes.js file too
[11:28] TheCode: I was planning of creating a routes.js file in the root, but have no idea how to make app.get available there
[11:30] zomg: These really weird PHP + node.js questions on stack overflow baffle me
[11:30] zomg: Like this one http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8210979/integrate-ajax-with-node-js
[11:30] zomg: It's like... do they even have any clue what they're doing :D
[11:30] hipsterslapfight: TheCode: i just made app a global
[11:31] hipsterslapfight: bad practice maybe, but i haven't had an issue
[11:31] TheCode: not following you, can you show a sample code?
[11:31] negrete: regarding my question, you don't have to give me any code, just point me in the right direction, please?
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[11:32] hipsterslapfight: TheCode: just don't stick 'var' in front of your app reference
[11:32] hipsterslapfight: voila it's a global and you can use it anywhere
[11:32] TheCode: ooohhhhh
[11:32] hipsterslapfight: then just require your routes from app.js
[11:32] augustl: negrete: are you asking if you can do .listen(process.env.PORT)?
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[11:32] TheCode: thanks
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[11:32] augustl: negrete: you should check if it's set, if ("PORT" in process.env) {}, and also parseInt(process.env.PORT, 10)
[11:33] TheCode: I am a little reluctant about the whole global thing though'
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[11:33] hipsterslapfight: TheCode: sure, as i said people have an issue with it. but it's nice and neat and if any of your modules conflict then you can just blame the module author :v
[11:33] negrete: @augustl: kind of, I'm sharing the same machine and I don't want the other devs to specify the port number but instead use a "random" port assigned by an env var
[11:34] augustl: negrete: so you're asking if you can protect your node script from being tampered with? That's not possible if they have access to it.
[11:35] CIA-109: node: 03Maciej Małecki 07master * r3f862cf 10/ test/simple/test-stdin-resume-pause.js : 
[11:35] CIA-109: node: test: `stdin` isn't closed after `resume()` and `pause()`
[11:35] CIA-109: node: This works on `node v0.4.12`, but doesn't work on `node v0.6.2` - http://git.io/IK32iQ
[11:35] negrete: augustl: :(... I think I'll try to solve that with selinux then
[11:35] augustl: negrete: right, so they don't have the ability to edit the file?
[11:35] augustl: or write to it at least
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[11:36] negrete: actually, no, I want them to develop whatever they want... I just don't want them to use any port they want
[11:37] hipsterslapfight: negrete: block the ports on your system then
[11:37] negrete: for example, I want dev01 to use 3001-3100, dev2 to use 3101 to 3200, etc
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[11:37] hipsterslapfight: oh … well then
[11:37] augustl: negrete: not sure if I understand what you're actually doing
[11:37] pksunkara: how am I seeing colors from messages written by CIA-109
[11:37] augustl: pksunkara: it's a IRC thing, you can do it too
[11:38] augustl: except you can't because people will hate you for it ;)
[11:38] pksunkara: I am using irccloud
[11:38] pksunkara: does the message use ansi escape codes ?
[11:38] augustl: no idea what the IRC standard specifies
[11:40] negrete: augustl: long story short, same machine, same node.js, different developers but I don't want them to declare something like ".listen(3000)", I want them to use something like ".listen(process.env.PORT)"
[11:40] augustl: so tell them to do that? :)
[11:40] augustl: sounds like an environment you can control, since they're developers
[11:41] augustl: perhaps you can get the AST and do some validation in the VCS or something..
[11:41] negrete: yeah, maybe
[11:41] negrete: I just wanted to automate this as much as possible
[11:41] negrete: you know, just to avoid headaches
[11:42] augustl: can't do it in the JavaScript run time at least
[11:43] darinc has joined the channel
[11:43] negrete: I know, that's why I was wondering if someone had this problem before and, hopefully, came with a solution
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[11:55] augustl: negrete: perhaps you can use https://github.com/mishoo/UglifyJS
[11:55] augustl: to parse the JS
[11:55] augustl: that is, Uglify has a parser that gives you the ast.. I think..
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[11:57] secoif: augustl negrete burrito gives you some neat ast manipulation http://substack.net/posts/eed898
[11:57] augustl: negrete: yep, var ast = require("uglify-js").parser.parse("js here")
[11:57] augustl: burrito uses uglify for the ast iirc
[11:58] secoif: augustl check the first two lines in that link ;)
[11:59] augustl: isn't the ast just a bunch of arrays?
[12:00] augustl: ah, https://github.com/substack/js-traverse has utils for traversing it
[12:00] mmalecki: https://github.com/thejh/node-astjourney
[12:00] mmalecki: this is awesome ^
[12:00] augustl: no docs?
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[12:01] mmalecki: yeah, well
[12:01] mmalecki: there are tests
[12:01] augustl: oh, it also parses JS and generates ast?
[12:01] augustl: nvm, it uses uglify
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[12:06] Garo_: I tried to start profiling remotely by listening for SIGUSR2 and executing require("profiler").resume(); in it. It kind of works: the node writes about 18 kilobytes to v8.log, but stops appending the profiling data after that. Is the profiler resume() function somehow local to the calling scope? I need to enable the profiling for the entire application for the rest of the program execution. any ideas?
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[12:16] negrete: augustl: sorry for the delay in my response, I was reading what you suggested... thank you very much!
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[12:25] bnoordhuis: Garo_: node-profiler?
[12:25] Garo_: bnoordhuis: yep
[12:26] bnoordhuis: Garo_: the effects of .resume() are not local, it flips a flag in v8 itself
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[12:27] bnoordhuis: Garo_: sanity check, what happens if you require("profiler").resume() at the top of your main script file?
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[12:29] Garo_: bnoordhuis: it seems that both ways will result the same: a bit of lines (8 to 16 kilobytes) are appended to the v8.log
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[12:30] Garo_: and they'll all end with this as the last line: heap-sample-end,"Heap","allocated"
[12:30] bnoordhuis: Garo_: with what version of node are you testing it?
[12:30] Garo_: 0.4.11. we haven't yet converted to 0.6
[12:30] Garo_: if I do .resume() again on the running instance, the same happens: about 16kb is appended and the last line is heap-sample-end,"Heap","allocated"
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[12:31] bnoordhuis: Garo_: hrm, sounds like a v8 bug
[12:32] Garo_: hmm, it seems that only the heap is appended to v8
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[12:32] bnoordhuis: yeah, v8 changed its profiler api considerably
[12:32] Garo_: ok, I'll check with the resume attributes
[12:32] bnoordhuis: making node-profiler considerably less effective in the process :/
[12:33] bnoordhuis: if all else fails, can you open an issue at node-profiler?
[12:33] bnoordhuis: i can't promise anything but i'll look into it
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[12:37] Garo_: bnoordhuis: ok, I figured it out. I had to enable the profiler as this: profiler.resume(profiler.CPU | profiler.JS_CONSTRUCTORS);
[12:37] Garo_: bnoordhuis: seems that the default will just dump heap
[12:38] bnoordhuis: Garo_: oh right, that it does - i suppose your app simply started idling after those 16 kb?
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[12:38] Garo_: no it wont idle
[12:39] Garo_: it's actually quire busy app
[12:39] Garo_: *quite
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[12:41] bnoordhuis: Garo_: it's probably this change in v8 then: https://github.com/v8/v8/commit/d70f921
[12:41] Garo_: bnoordhuis: as far as I figured out, calling the profiler.resume() without any arguments will just dump some heap statistics (profiler.HEAP_STATS) to the v8.log
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[12:41] Garo_: lets see
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[12:45] Garo_: bnoordhuis: hmm, hard to say. maybe there's something under the hood which I haven't learned. To me it looks just that the default setting for profiler.resume() is to have profiler.HEAP_STATS as the default flag
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[12:46] bnoordhuis: Garo_: that's correct
[12:46] bnoordhuis: the thing is that v8 added some code that turns off the profiler after some time
[12:47] secoif: anyone got recommendations for libs to create a file hash?
[12:47] garrensm_ has joined the channel
[12:47] secoif: is there anything wrong with using md5 for that
[12:47] bnoordhuis: i should add some heuristic to work around that but i haven't gotten around to it
[12:47] Garo_: bnoordhuis: ok. good to know that there might be such thing. thanks for that
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[13:04] CIA-109: node: 03Roman Shtylman 07v0.6 * r4d05f56 10/ src/node_constants.cc : 
[13:04] CIA-109: node: tls: expose ssl bug workaround constants
[13:04] CIA-109: node: The internet is filled with servers which have various bugs and other
[13:04] CIA-109: node: ssl handshake issues. These constants can be used with the Agent
[13:04] CIA-109: node: secureOptions option to get around such server limitations when performing
[13:04] CIA-109: node: https requests - http://git.io/QsPyCA
[13:04] CIA-109: node: 03Ben Noordhuis 07v0.6 * r05de01d 10/ src/node_constants.cc : tls: expose more openssl SSL context options - http://git.io/LAu5cQ
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[13:22] alessioalex: ppcano: change your ISP man
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[13:51] zomg: Hmm, you guys got any good experiences with using haproxy or something to run node *and* apache under same IP/port combo?
[13:51] zomg: I would assume that would be doable by using some sort of a proxy and the servers themselves on other ports
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[13:52] JakeyChan: I have problem when install forever
[13:52] JakeyChan: Checking for node path                   : not found 
[13:53] darinc: zomg: varnish may be your best bet, you can write rules on what requests to map to where.  To be very specific, you will end up running varnish on the port you want, and node/apache under different ports and use varnish rules to route to the correct/appropriate server
[13:53] Xano has joined the channel
[13:54] zomg: darinc: yeah sounds pretty much how I thought it would work.. Will socket.io work properly with varnish? I recall seeing some messages about it not working properly
[13:54] zomg: How is the performance btw? Say I had another IP address instead of proxying?
[13:55] JakeyChan: when I run script , forever start server.js 
[13:55] JakeyChan: info:   Running action: start
[13:55] JakeyChan: info:   Forever processing file: start
[13:55] JakeyChan: error:  Cannot start forever
[13:55] JakeyChan: error:  script /var/app/winkr/start does not exist
[13:55] JakeyChan: that's I get 
[13:55] darinc: zomg:  I haven't tried it with socket.io.  Performance is off the chart good.  A lot of  the big web sites are starting to use it now because of how quick it is.
[13:56] zomg: Yeah I just have a cheap linode vps, I'll probably hit its performance cap before varnish I guess =)
[13:56] zomg: Guess I'll look into it, thanks
[13:56] JakeyChan: oops
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[14:41] broofa: Is there a browser shim for node's 'assert' module?
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[14:47] jxck: like this ? https://github.com/drewlesueur/assert-browser
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[15:02] mxp: i want to do twitter streaming thru nodejs
[15:02] mxp: which package is best?
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[15:02] mxp: ?
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[15:08] mmalecki: mxp: ntwitter
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[15:08] jreading: any rooms for AMD/CJS?
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[15:11] mxp: mmalecki, url?
[15:11] mmalecki: mxp: https://github.com/avianflu/ntwitter
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[15:13] gigawatt_: Anyone good at Socket.IO, i need a little help
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[15:16] mxp: is twitter stream working for other people in nodejs?
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[15:32] JakeyChan: hi? question :)
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[15:35] bnoordhuis: JakeyChan: hi. answer
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[15:35] JakeyChan: I know there are many tutorials to build web application
[15:36] JakeyChan: BUT 
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[15:36] JakeyChan: I still don't know where to start
[15:36] JakeyChan: you know, express is framework 
[15:36] pksunkara: try express
[15:37] JakeyChan: but doesn't support security form 
[15:37] JakeyChan: and doesn't support module auto load 
[15:37] context: jakeychan: just start. doesn't matter where.
[15:37] JakeyChan: the router looks like not beautiful and not easy to manage
[15:37] context: start with or without a framework
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[15:38] bnoordhuis: without, that'll give you a firmer grasp on how node really works
[15:38] bnoordhuis: or rather, it depends
[15:38] bnoordhuis: if you want to build a web app, use express
[15:38] bnoordhuis: if you want to do hip async things, starts with plain node code and work up from there
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[15:39] JakeyChan: not answer
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[15:41] bnoordhuis: JakeyChan: is too - if you start with plain node, you'll be better able to evaluate the merits (and deficiencies) of frameworks like express
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[15:41] joshsmith: JakeyChan: have you read Hands-On Node yet?
[15:42] JakeyChan: no 
[15:42] JakeyChan: I didn't read it 
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[15:42] joshsmith: JakeyChan: I'd suggest you start with NodeBeginner (if you haven't yet), then move on to that book
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[15:42] JakeyChan: NodeBeginner ? a book ?
[15:42] joshsmith: it'll save you a lot of trouble googling and hacking together poorly
[15:43] joshsmith: JakeyChan: http://www.nodebeginner.org/
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[15:44] DrHeiter23: anyone familiar with node.io, I am running a simple script that just counts number of iframes,scripts,images,links, etc on a page using $('iframe').each('src',function(src){ // record it }); for each node type.. but I just keep getting no such method 'each'
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[15:48] mxp: I having error authorizationError: 'CERT_UNTRUSTED'
[15:48] mxp: with nodejs
[15:48] mxp: :(
[15:48] mxp: what should i do?
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[15:51] booyaa: joshsmith: hands on looks like a nice book
[15:51] bnoordhuis: mxp: let's take the socratic approach... what does CERT_UNTRUSTED tell you?
[15:51] joshsmith: booyaa: I'm only so far into it, but yeah, it's fantastic so far
[15:51] svenlito has joined the channel
[15:51] joshsmith: booyaa: there's a 60 page preview to get you hooked ;)
[15:51] booyaa: nodebeginner.org is also a sound start too.
[15:51] mxp: its a certificate issue bnoordhuis i know i removed all certificates regenerated them but still getting same :(
[15:51] booyaa: heh totes.
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[15:52] joshsmith: yeah, nodebeginner is nice, and preferably should be read first
[15:52] bnoordhuis: mxp: is your code a tls / https client or server?
[15:52] joshsmith: but hand-on gives a fuller approach
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[15:53] booyaa: i do wish someone would make something similar to the "ruby on rails tutorial" i love how that also teaches git and deploying to heroku.
[15:53] mxp: bnoordhuis, using ntwitter for streaming
[15:53] joshsmith: really dives into the philosophy behind event-based I/O
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[15:53] bnoordhuis: mxp: you probably need to pass the 'ca' option to https.request()
[15:54] bnoordhuis: i'll leave it to you to find out how that integrates with ntwitter
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[15:55] booyaa: crikey it's only $5.99! i'll check the 60 page preview, but i think the purchase is a no brainer
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[15:57] mxp: bnoordhuis, seems like its using oauth
[15:57] mxp: duh
[15:59] joshsmith: booyaa: yeah, I'm reading through the preview still just because I'm too lazy to pull my wallet from my pants pocket
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[16:03] hoodoos: hello, guys
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[16:04] hoodoos: is there any way to build/run nodejs with some parameter so it would give warnings when blocking code executes too long?
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[16:05] hoodoos: we have a fairly big project already and it would be good to watch for such things when they happen
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[16:06] baudehlo: I don't think there is.
[16:07] baudehlo: might be good to write something that did a SIGALRM and set alarm() every 5 seconds or so, with a setInterval().
[16:07] baudehlo: unix only, of cours.
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[16:09] felixge: hoodoos: you could use setInterval() to detect event loop freezes > interval timeout 
[16:10] Glenjamin: surely interval would only run *after* the blocking call finishes
[16:10] Glenjamin: by which point its too late
[16:10] russfrank: Glenjamin: right, so you have a watchdog waiting for a message from the setinterval
[16:10] felixge: hoodoos: basically by looking by how much time has passed between the last interval and if its's > your defined interval, something blocked
[16:10] Glenjamin: ah yes, that would work
[16:10] felixge: Glenjamin: what do you mean by too late?
[16:10] russfrank: setinterval pings over a socket to the watchdog, if it takes > 3 secs you page everybody
[16:11] felixge: Glenjamin: you can certainly only detect this after it happened
[16:11] felixge: not during
[16:11] MooGoo: .. while(1){}
[16:11] catb0t: Timeout Error
[16:11] Glenjamin: russfrank's approach would work
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[16:11] felixge: yes
[16:11] felixge: but it's going to be hard to analyze this
[16:11] russfrank: >3 secs between pings I mean
[16:11] felixge: GC will naturally cause freezes here and there
[16:11] russfrank: or something of that nature
[16:12] hoodoos: yeah, no way to findout what actually freeze :)
[16:12] felixge: and by the time a GC takes 3 sec you've already been deep into shit for a while
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[16:12] MooGoo: clearly you need to spawn a child process
[16:12] MooGoo: and monitor it
[16:12] felixge: I think measuring the business critical rates of events within your app is more reliable
[16:13] felixge: <plug>http://github.com/felixge/node-felix-metrics</plug>
[16:13] mxp: how can i make default ca certificates fine for nodejs?
[16:13] mxp: oauth provides no way to pass in certificate options
[16:14] Glenjamin: yeah, we have all our processes expose an HTTP server with statistics. Then some stuff collects them all and pushes to graphite
[16:14] felixge: <3 graphite
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[16:14] hoodoos: thanks for suggestions guys, to look after code which is being developed by 3 programmers and has a lot of lines of code is quite hard :) i was hoping to automaticly detect slow blocking code and point to in right in production, because it test enviroment it's quite hard to find those.
[16:14] Glenjamin: we just expose raw numbers from the application, and let the monitoring stuff do the maths
[16:15] felixge: Glenjamin: are you doing histograms?
[16:15] Glenjamin: mostly line graphs showing throughput
[16:15] felixge: those are hard if you don't aggregate them in a smart way 
[16:15] Glenjamin: since its a message processing pipeline, not an HTTP server
[16:16] Glenjamin: we mainly track queue size, throughput and lifetime of a message from when we got it to when we finished processing
[16:17] felixge: Glenjamin: lifetime of a message seems like something you'd want a histogram for
[16:17] felixge: to be able to say: 95% of our messages have a lifetime < 1sec
[16:17] felixge: 99.9% < 10sec
[16:17] felixge: etc.
[16:17] Glenjamin: perhaps, but we have to process sequentially
[16:17] felixge: because mean/median really suck if you can't assume a normal distribution
[16:17] felixge: which you can't
[16:17] Glenjamin: so we mostly care about how far behind we are right now
[16:17] felixge: oh
[16:18] Glenjamin: or how far behind we were at a particular peak time
[16:18] felixge: now processing sequentially sucks :)
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[16:28] mxp: wtf is wid node :@
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[16:29] HRSatiya: #nodejitsu
[16:30] hipsterslapfight: hmm, is it kosher to extend the 'req' object with my own variables that i want to store for the duration of the request that i don't want to 'leak' over to other requests on the same session? ie. req.base64encodedimage
[16:30] ecto: felixge: the module is rad
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[16:30] ecto: felixge: does the implementation differ much from metrics module?
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[16:31] felixge: ecto: I found a few bugs in the other metrics lib
[16:31] felixge: which I tried to not replicate
[16:31] felixge: :)
[16:31] felixge: but otherwise it's using the exact same algorithms underneath
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[16:31] felixge: with the exception of starting out meters at 0
[16:32] felixge: instead of initializing them with the first value being passed in
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[16:32] mxp: my ssl certificates are fine
[16:32] felixge: other than that my module has a very nice test suite
[16:32] mxp: what the hell is up with nodejs?
[16:32] felixge: and doesn't do anything beyond it's scope
[16:32] Glenjamin: felixge: we've managed to identify some sharding options, so it's mostly fine now - but yeah, sequential messages are a pain
[16:33] TheDeveloper: hey guys, compiling from source, how do I disable the inbuilt cluster module? is there a build flag to disable it?
[16:33] felixge: mxp: http://substack.net/images/node_turtle.png
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[16:33] TheDeveloper: v0.6.1
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[16:33] felixge: TheDeveloper: no
[16:33] felixge: TheDeveloper: why do you want to disable it?
[16:34] TheDeveloper: I want to use https://github.com/LearnBoost/cluster
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[16:34] Glenjamin: heh
[16:34] TheDeveloper: more specifically, I am using https://github.com/LearnBoost/cluster but ideally like to upgrade to latest node
[16:34] Glenjamin: mv node_modules/cluster node_modules/lb-cluster
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[16:34] felixge: TheDeveloper: not 100% sure, but IMO there is no problem with using cluster in 0.6
[16:34] TheDeveloper: @Glenjamin simple as that?
[16:34] felixge: * should be no
[16:35] felixge: oh you mean because require('cluster') gives you the node built-in
[16:35] felixge: yeah that's annoying
[16:35] TheDeveloper: yeh
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[16:35] mxp: heeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllppppppppppppp :(
[16:35] TheDeveloper: I will try renaming
[16:35] TheJH: require('cluster/.')
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[16:36] TheJH: ^ this won't use the builtin, only userspace modules
[16:36] TheDeveloper: @TheJH great, I'll give it a go
[16:36] TheDeveloper: thanks all
[16:36] felixge: TheJH: nice hack
[16:37] felixge: :)
[16:37] TheJH: :)
[16:37] ecto: using 0.6 clustering in production right now, and it's working well
[16:37] ecto: it's a bit leaner than TJ's
[16:38] TheDeveloper: ecto: yeah, TJ's API is more comprehensive at this time
[16:38] TheDeveloper: ideally, he'll redevelop it to use inbuilt cluster
[16:38] marcello3d: tj was suggesting using the built-in one the other day
[16:38] marcello3d: tjholowaychuk: correct me if I'm wrong :)
[16:38] TheDeveloper: there is an issue thread saying that they already have a version ready to go
[16:38] TheDeveloper: so we should see something soon
[16:38] tjholowaychuk: marcello3d lb/cluster wont work
[16:39] TheDeveloper: see https://github.com/LearnBoost/cluster/issues/168
[16:39] tronhammer: oi, my brew install is at v0.4.12, is this a good repo, or should I try and build from source
[16:39] marcello3d: tjholowaychuk: load balancing cluster?
[16:39] tjholowaychuk: learnboost/cluster
[16:39] tjholowaychuk: :p
[16:39] marcello3d: ooh :D
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[16:40] marcello3d: so basically, if you have to use 0.4.x, use lb/cluster, if you're using 0.6, move to core cluster?
[16:40] tjholowaychuk: i've redone parts of it but i need an ok to OS it
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[16:40] tjholowaychuk: core cluster doesn't do a lot of things
[16:40] TheDeveloper: thing is, core cluster is really basic at the moment
[16:40] tjholowaychuk: which is fine
[16:40] tjholowaychuk: that's by-design
[16:40] marcello3d: do you imagine the cluster niceties becoming a library that builds on top of the core stuff?
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[16:41] tjholowaychuk: yup
[16:41] marcello3d: awesome
[16:41] tjholowaychuk: I have most of that done, but we have some bigger plans for it
[16:41] marcello3d: do you have a clever name yet? :D
[16:41] TheDeveloper: tj, will we see something soon?
[16:41] tjholowaychuk: so im not sure if we'll release what's there
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[16:41] tjholowaychuk: it's up to guillermo
[16:42] ecto: tjholowaychuk: what do you think of https://github.com/ecto/axe ?
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[16:44] marcello3d: damn, the vanilla debian package has mongodb 1.4.4 o_O
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[16:45] mxp: node should burn in hell
[16:46] pquerna: no?
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[16:59] garrensm_: ecto: looks pretty cool
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[17:04] ecto: garrensm_: thanks, just wanted to make the native cluster API easier to work with
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[17:06] shanebo: tjholowaychuk hey man, I'm experiencing some session wonkiness locally. Is this to be expected when testing on multiple browsers from the same computer?
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[17:06] tjholowaychuk: shanebo nope, it should be fine
[17:07] tjholowaychuk: which store?
[17:07] tjholowaychuk: redis?
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[17:07] shanebo: I'm just using cookieParser and session
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[17:07] TheDeveloper: on node v0.6.1 I get 'No Such Module" when including binding = process.binding('net') in node_modules/cluster/lib/worker.js:14:23
[17:08] tjholowaychuk: ohh maybe the MemoryStore has a bug
[17:08] shanebo: tjholowaychuk let's hope not :D
[17:09] tjholowaychuk: shanebo I wouldn't use the memory store anyway, it's just a default so we have one
[17:09] tjholowaychuk: and definitely not in production
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[17:14] isaacs: SubStack: dude, pedro (joyent employee) is wiring up node-tap with bunker
[17:14] isaacs: SubStack: it's working awesomely.
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[17:17] grampajoe: What's a good pattern for "Perform this list of asynchronous tasks, then do something when they're all complete"?
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[17:20] MooGoo: the plad pattern
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[17:23] TheJH: grampajoe, if an async lib is ok for you, use async
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[17:24] TheJH: grampajoe, it has async foreach, both parallel and serial
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[17:24] grampajoe: TheJH, thanks, I'll look into that
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[17:25] TheJH: grampajoe, if you just want a pattern: have a counter containing the expected number of relies, decrease on reply, if it's zero, they're all complete
[17:25] aviaviavi: Hi all, where can I ask questions about Cygwin installation?
[17:25] TheJH: aviaviavi, don't use cygwin
[17:25] TheJH: aviaviavi, at least not for node.js
[17:25] TheJH: aviaviavi, not supported anymore since 0.5.x
[17:25] TheJH: aviaviavi, current stable is 0.6.2
[17:26] TheJH: aviaviavi, there's a native windows build
[17:27] aviaviavi has joined the channel
[17:28] aviaviavi: Hi all, where can I ask questions about Cygwin installation?
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[17:29] MooGoo: you can use my time machine to travel to the past
[17:29] MooGoo: maybe a year
[17:29] TheJH: aviaviavi, COULD YOU PLEASE REACT IN SOME WAY TO WHAT I SAID?
[17:30] aviaviavi: TheJH, I don't see any message from you
[17:31] TheJH: aviaviavi, ah, meh, you rejoined
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[17:31] TheJH: aviaviavi, I apologize
[17:31] TheJH: aviaviavi, don't use cygwin
[17:31] TheJH: aviaviavi, at least not for node.js
[17:31] TheJH: aviaviavi, not supported anymore since 0.5.x
[17:31] TheJH: aviaviavi, current stable is 0.6.2
[17:31] TheJH: aviaviavi, there's a native windows build
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[17:35] aviaviavi: TheJH, are you getting my message ?
[17:35] deedubs: hahaha awesome https://github.com/isaacs/node-supervisor/pull/31
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[17:36] aviaviavi: ok, thanks, didn't know that
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[17:37] TheJH: deedubs, he should totally have converted it to coco instead, it's much more awesome :)
[17:38] deedubs: bash
[17:38] context: coco?
[17:38] context: coffee-script, kaffeine, coco
[17:39] context: why so many damn options
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[17:40] tronhammer: I sent this out earlier, but didn't get any reply
[17:41] TheJH: !coco compile import defaults <<< options
[17:41] jhbot: __import(__import(this, defaults), options); function __import(obj, src){ var own = {}.hasOwnProperty; for (var key in src) if (own.call(src, key)) obj[key] = src[key]; return obj; }
[17:41] tronhammer: my brew install is at v0.4.12, is this a good repo version? or should I try and build from source and get the latest?
[17:42] TheJH: context, ^ - coco is the most awesome one :)
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[17:43] satyr: Kaffene is kind of dead
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[17:45] context: and wow. coco looks ugly
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[17:46] arcatan: is coco alive?
[17:46] arcatan: looking at github, i guess it is
[17:48] TheJH: arcatan, yes, satyr is still maintaining it. you can usually speak to him in #coffeescript
[17:49] shanebo: tjholowaychuk, I think the session issue is only in chrome
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[17:57] Raynos: I want to "borrow" a snippet of someone's code. Whats the correct way to acknowledge him?
[17:58] Glenjamin: whatever the license says
[17:58] jarek: and if there is not license then you should ask the developer
[17:59] pksunkara: what are major types of licenses? and what are best for what scenarios
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[18:00] isaacs: pksunkara: imo, BSD and MIT are the best, hands down.
[18:00] isaacs: most open, but reasonable.
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[18:00] pksunkara: I know about MIT
[18:00] pksunkara: but what does BSD define
[18:00] pksunkara: ?
[18:01] jarek: pksunkara: BSD is just like MIT license
[18:01] russfrank: permissive licenses. they rock
[18:01] raincole: pksunkara: may you will like this: http://codebender.denniland.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/osl-flowchart.png
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[18:01] pksunkara: raincole: Awesome man
[18:02] pksunkara: raincole++
[18:02] catb0t: raincole now has 1 beer
[18:02] v8bot_:  pksunkara has given a beer to raincole. raincole now has 1 beers.
[18:02] isaacs: pksunkara: the difference between them is very subtle, and i'm not enough of a lawyer to really explain it.  best to read them (they're not long)
[18:02] pksunkara: thanks issacs
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[18:03] Raynos: In this particular case its part of a unlicenced gist
[18:04] arcatan: plus there are three versions of BSD licenses, with 2, 3 and 4 clauses.
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[18:05] cfq: I think it's a good practice to licence it with CC even if you don't need a licence
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[18:07] raincole: You always should have a licence to let everyone know "she/he could use it".
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[18:07] raincole: (if you want to open-source your code...)
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[18:07] arcatan: I personally like ISC license, which is essentially the same as MIT, but worded more simply
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[18:09] bnoordhuis: arcatan++
[18:09] catb0t: arcatan now has 1 beer
[18:09] v8bot_:  bnoordhuis has given a beer to arcatan. arcatan now has 1 beers.
[18:09] Raynos: The code I'm "borrowing" doesn't have a licence
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[18:10] Raynos: Ah yes, someone mentioned asking the developer, done that.
[18:10] bnoordhuis: Raynos: in most countries that means copyright is retained by the author with all rights reserved
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[18:12] shanebo: hey guys does control c just stop the particular node script or node itself?
[18:12] Raynos: And I thought all that code of mine with no licence was just ripe for theft
[18:12] joshkehn: shanebo: Clarify?
[18:12] joshkehn: It will break the process.
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[18:12] shanebo: joshkehn I need to restart node
[18:12] shanebo: (not a project)
[18:12] joshkehn: node myscript.js 
[18:12] joshkehn: ^C
[18:12] joshkehn: Will kill node
[18:13] raincole: you should have to restart it
[18:13] ritch has left the channel
[18:13] joshkehn: There is no single node process running all the scripts.
[18:14] chrisvwebdev has joined the channel
[18:14] raincole: how to find where my node packages are? e.g. my supervisor
[18:14] joshkehn: npm ls ?
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[18:15] raincole: oh great. stupid me
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[18:16] shanebo: is it possible that my app router is faster than my sessions? hahah
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[18:17] pksunkara: I have a function named Foo
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[18:18] pksunkara: Now, I can add variables to Foo using Foo.prototype.bar = 'I am bar'
[18:18] pksunkara: I can also add functions to Foo using Foo.prototype.fun = function(){console.log('hi');}
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[18:19] pksunkara: Foobar = Foo();
[18:19] pksunkara: Foobar.bar gives 'I am bar'
[18:19] pksunkara: Foobar.fun() prints hi
[18:19] pksunkara: Now, I want Foobar.fun2 to print hi
[18:20] pksunkara: How do I do that?
[18:20] pksunkara: Please answer me
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[18:20] zpao: foobar.fun2 = function(){/* do stuff*/}
[18:21] zpao: pksunkara: for future questions though, you are probably better off in a more general js channel, like ##javascript
[18:21] pksunkara: but I can't access Foobar's variables from fun2. Can I ?
[18:22] joshkehn: pksunkara: Did you say Foobar = new Foo(); or just = Foo(); ?
[18:22] pksunkara: What is the difference ?
[18:22] joshkehn: One actually constructs an object with the prototype.
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[18:23] joshkehn: See https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Core_JavaScript_1.5_Guide/Working_with_Objects#Using_a_Constructor_Function
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[18:24] pksunkara: Thanks
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[18:26] konobi: isaacs++
[18:26] v8bot_:  konobi has given a beer to isaacs. isaacs now has 8 beers.
[18:27] thax: joshkehn++
[18:27] v8bot_:  thax has given a beer to joshkehn. joshkehn now has 2 beers.
[18:27] konobi: isaacs: your pull request comment was genius
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[18:30] bemson: I'd like to make my code an npm package, but it's a single function - do I need to rewrite my code such that it exports, etc based on the js environment?
[18:30] garrensm_ has joined the channel
[18:31] pksunkara: yes
[18:32] bemson: pksunkara: thx, I'll start there - shame my codebase has to be a tad bigger :-p
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[18:37] chapel: v8: console.log('foo')
[18:37] v8bot_: chapel: 
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[18:39] thax: v8: console.log('test');
[18:39] v8bot_: thax: 
[18:39] thax: :(
[18:40] topaxi: v8: 'test'
[18:40] v8bot_: topaxi: 
[18:40] topaxi: ^^'
[18:40] MooGoo: v8: throw Error()
[18:40] v8bot_: MooGoo: 
[18:40] MooGoo: v8: 1+1
[18:40] v8bot_: MooGoo: 
[18:40] joshkehn: v8: var a = 'me';
[18:40] v8bot_: joshkehn: 
[18:40] joshkehn: v8: console.log(a)
[18:40] v8bot_: joshkehn: 
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[18:40] thax: v8: 4
[18:40] v8bot_: thax: 
[18:41] thax: oh wait, 4 isn't an error actually
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[18:46] fairwinds: isaacs: have just seen your node-tar implementation. I am looking to combine it with gzip for a tar.gz. Have you already done with node's new gzip in 0.6.x ?
[18:46] isaacs: yes
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[18:47] isaacs: fairwinds: here's where npm is doing that in the soon-to-be-released 1.1 version: https://github.com/isaacs/npm/blob/tar-js/lib/utils/tar.js#L75-94
[18:47] isaacs: and: https://github.com/isaacs/npm/blob/tar-js/lib/utils/tar.js#L157-162
[18:48] deedubs: sorensen: backbone-dnode still functional?
[18:48] isaacs: fairwinds: i'd like to make the Extract class detect a gzip file from the first few bytes of the header, but haven't gotten to thatyet.
[18:48] isaacs: so, for now, you have to know what it is
[18:49] fairwinds: right. This will be a big help. Was curious to see the steaming and piping implementation to get both
[18:49] isaacs: fairwinds: i still need to document the fstream lib
[18:49] isaacs: it's very very brand new
[18:49] isaacs: (read: "probably has bugs")
[18:50] isaacs: node-tar is designed to work hand-in-hand with it, so you can add a directory, and have it also add teh children, etc.
[18:50] fairwinds: heh, yeah I know it is fresh from the bakery :-)
[18:50] FearOfMusic has joined the channel
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[18:51] isaacs: also, fstream's tests are kind of disorganized and not well structured right now, which needs to be fixed.
[18:51] CIA-109: node: 03Ryan Dahl 07v0.6 * rb488be1 10/ (449 files in 75 dirs): 
[18:51] CIA-109: node: Include NPM, update .pkg to install it.
[18:51] CIA-109: node: .msi update coming soon. - http://git.io/XHELFQ
[18:51] isaacs: but, eventually, i'd like to have npm use that lib to abstract out a lot of extra complexity
[18:51] dwww has left the channel
[18:51] fairwinds: isaacs: k, this is very helpful. I will be giving it a whirl
[18:52] mmalecki: what.
[18:52] fairwinds: thanks
[18:52] mmalecki: did npm just become node dependency?
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[18:53] mmalecki: ANYWAYS.
[18:53] svenlito has joined the channel
[18:53] isaacs: mmalecki: it's going to be built into the pkg and msi
[18:53] mmalecki: isaacs: wanna ssh into my host now?
[18:53] isaacs: auto-installed
[18:54] mmalecki: I haven't seen any updates to tar-js branch and this problem persists
[18:54] AdAlpha has joined the channel
[18:54] isaacs: mmalecki: sure!  want to email me creds encrypted with my pubkey, or just be promiscuous and PM it in irc?
[18:54] jxson has joined the channel
[18:54] isaacs: i'm really eager to figure this thing out, because i can't reproduce it.
[18:54] isaacs: i'm sure it's something dumb on my part.
[18:54] mmalecki: isaacs: I'll assume that you are you and I'll just PM you the creds
[18:55] isaacs: 
ACTION 's plan is working...

[18:55] isaacs: 
ACTION mwahahah!!

[18:55] isaacs: ok
[18:55] isaacs: i mean... of course... i'm me...
[18:55] skenqbx has joined the channel
[18:55] mmalecki: isaacs: or just email me your pubkey, my current password took too long to come up with
[18:56] twopoint718 has joined the channel
[18:56] TheJH: 
ACTION spoofs a mail from isaacs' mail address

[18:56] mmalecki: isaacs: pm'ed you my e-mail address
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[19:01] jerrysv: isaacs: would you accept a patch if i reworked npm to be written in coffeescript? just curious, before i put forth too much more effort on it.
[19:01] maxogden: jerrysv: i hope you are joking
[19:02] jerrysv: maxogden: i don't think i can be serious about coffeescript
[19:02] maxogden: jerrysv: ok just checking
[19:04] shanebo: jerrysv, have you had any issues with bricks sessions in chrome or firefox?
[19:04] jerrysv: shanebo: no, what behavior are you seeing?
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[19:07] shanebo: jerrysv well sessions are getting set as expected in safari, but in chrome and ff often times I have to refresh after a redirect
[19:08] shanebo: jerrysv this happens with connect's cookieParser and session middleware as well as session middleware very similar to what you have in bricks
[19:08] tjholowaychuk: shanebo just seems a little weird, we use it every day all day and have no issues
[19:08] jerrysv: shanebo: hm. are you able to replicate it with the base example?
[19:09] jerrysv: tjholowaychuk: heh, that's good to hear
[19:09] mmalecki: isaacs: you there?
[19:09] isaacs: yeah, just a sec
[19:09] lmatteis: maxogden: hey. for node couchapp, what happens to require()'s that are inside ddoc's shows/lists functions?
[19:10] lmatteis: maxogden: like this: https://github.com/couchone/pages/blob/master/shows/page.js#L5
[19:10] shanebo: tjholowaychuk it's definitely weird because I've been using connect for months now too with no trouble
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[19:10] tjholowaychuk: shanebo did you try a different memory store?
[19:10] tjholowaychuk: *different store
[19:10] jerrysv: shanebo: are you clustering?
[19:10] shanebo: jerrysv no
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[19:11] jerrysv: shanebo: can you get me a simple test case of the failure? i can definitely look into it, but as i am using sessions, i am not having any issue with chrome or ff
[19:11] isaacs: mmalecki: sent.
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[19:11] mmalecki: isaacs: ok, I'll add you in a second
[19:12] shanebo: jerrysv, that's the thing, it's not bricks, I was just wondering if you ran into issues
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[19:13] jerrysv: shanebo: it could be a lower level issue with "cookies", but i'd still love to see a failure so it can be fixed regardless
[19:15] shanebo: tjholowaychuk I'm storing sessions to a class
[19:15] tjholowaychuk: to a class?
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[19:16] tjholowaychuk: not sure i follow
[19:16] shanebo: tjholowaychuk mootools pseudo classes
[19:16] tjholowaychuk: so you're using your own memory store?
[19:16] shanebo: yes
[19:16] tjholowaychuk: ah
[19:17] tjholowaychuk: well then I cannot help you
[19:17] jerrysv: do you see the same issue with the default bricks memory store?
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[19:17] shanebo: jerrysv, haven't tried yours directly
[19:17] blueadept2: is today a holiday?
[19:17] shanebo: it would take some plumbing to plug yours into my project
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[19:27] jerrysv: shanebo: well, let me know if you need help trying, i'm just using "memstore" which is as bog simple of an in-memory store that you can get
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[19:27] maxogden: lmatteis: http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/CommonJS_Modules
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[19:28] lmatteis: oh!
[19:28] lmatteis: i thought it was part of node... got confused thanks
[19:28] lmatteis: maxogden: does the node-couchapp simply stringify the contents of functions?
[19:28] lmatteis: or like does it evaluate them?
[19:29] maxogden: lmatteis: stringify
[19:29] lmatteis: ok
[19:29] lmatteis: so i can't really depend on outer scope... right?
[19:29] maxogden: lmatteis: correct
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[19:30] maxogden: couchapps are pretty minimal. its both their greatest strength and weakness depending on how you look at it
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[19:30] lmatteis: right, okay well, couchdb's require() will help me modularize it more though
[19:30] lmatteis: instead of having huge functions
[19:30] shanebo: jerrysv, yeah me too, mootools pseudo classes function as a class in other languages would. So in my framework if you use sessions middleware it creates one instance of a sessions handler per app, and then a session instance per request if one doesn't exist
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[19:32] maxogden: lmatteis: there are restrictions on namespacing so make sure to use that wiki page as a reference on where you can put functions in the ddoc so that they will still be requireable
[19:32] jerrysv: shanebo: that sounds ... uh, complicated
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[19:33] shanebo: jerrysv well it's very similar to your sessions handling :D
[19:33] tjholowaychuk: shanebo memory doesn't scale, why not just use connect-redis or similar?
[19:34] shanebo: tjholowaychuk because this is a tiny project
[19:34] tjholowaychuk: redis is tiny
[19:34] shanebo: tjholowaychuk, I don't think it's a store issue though
[19:35] shanebo: because when I refresh it behaves as expected
[19:35] shanebo: in safari it behaves perfectly
[19:35] jerrysv: shanebo: what do the cookies look like when you curl? have you been able to set up a test-case that uses curl?
[19:36] shanebo: jerrysv I don't even know how to use curl man
[19:36] maxogden: shanebo: try man curl
[19:37] shanebo: I was thinking about trying Jheri curl but decided not to
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[19:40] jerrysv: shanebo: curl is awesome, especially for debugging cookie or framework issues
[19:41] shanebo: jerrysv, I'm looking at the cookies… what should I look for?
[19:42] jerrysv: shanebo: i'd check to make sure that the cookies are being set, what the expire is, and what path/domain are being sent
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[19:43] jerrysv: unless something is out of sync in your session store -- eg, state is not being saved before the next request
[19:44] shanebo: jerrysv  http://cl.ly/0N1t0M0e380j2I10173o
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[19:46] bemson: how would I edit/export a single function in npm?
[19:46] bemson: would I use exports or module.exports?
[19:46] bemson: var myFunc = require('npm-name-thing')
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[19:47] jerrysv: shanebo: you aren't setting a path or expire -- try curl -D /tmp/headers http://your.url
[19:47] bemson: It needs to work (of course) in a browser as well… I have no clue how to do this
[19:47] isaacs: bemson: use module.exports, and name that module as your "main" module.
[19:47] isaacs: bemson: working in a browser, i cannot help you ;)
[19:47] tlynn has joined the channel
[19:47] isaacs: bemson: maybe try browserify
[19:47] CIA-109: libuv: 03Ben Noordhuis 07master * r5728bd4 10/ test/test-fs-event.c : test: touching a file should generate only one fs event - http://git.io/dauprg
[19:48] bemson: isaacs: k, I'll use module.exports
[19:48] jerrysv: shanebo: example: Set-Cookie: cc=E226527C-69AA-4384-A0BB-7C2823A766A5; path=/; expires=Wed, 21 Nov 2012 19:09:28 GMT
[19:48] bemson: isaacs: I'll look at some other popular libraries on how to split behavior based on env
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[19:50] shanebo: jerrysv, I'm looking at your sessionhandler
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[19:50] shanebo: where are you assigning path/expire?
[19:51] jerrysv: shanebo: here - http://bricksjs.com/examples.html
[19:51] jerrysv: click on "Dealing with Sessions"
[19:51] shanebo: jerrysv i've been here
[19:51] jerrysv: which gets passed in to https://github.com/JerrySievert/bricks/blob/master/lib/plugins/sessionhandler.js#L18
[19:51] shanebo: i'm doing the same thing
[19:52] jerrysv: and i'm just relying on the "cookies" module
[19:52] shanebo: me too
[19:52] shanebo: but where are you setting path?
[19:52] jerrysv: inside options.cookies
[19:52] jerrysv: er, options.cookie
[19:52] shanebo: http://cl.ly/0a113k281A1C2X3y0509
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[19:53] jerrysv: right. i'm not actually setting the path in that example. but that is where you would set it.
[19:53] shanebo: i see
[19:54] shanebo: well wouldn't the path always be the req.url?
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[19:54] jerrysv: no, / or if you have a path that always requires cookies, like /admin
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[19:56] bemson: when making my function a module, does that mean I can't just state "var myFunc = require('myFunc');"?
[19:56] joshkehn: You could.
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[19:56] bemson: in other words, does it need to be "var myFunc = require('someModuleName').myFunc"?
[19:56] joshkehn: Not if you use module.exports
[19:56] joshkehn: module.exports = function () { console.log('Hello!'); }
[19:57] joshkehn: var hello = require('./hello.js');
[19:57] joshkehn: hello()
[19:57] bemson: joshkehn: okay - I'm trying to wrap my head around this
[19:57] bemson: joshkehn: thx for that clarification
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[19:57] bemson: joshkehn: I'm now trying to make what was functional declaration into a npm installable … thing
[19:57] bemson: trying to make this work in the browser and via nodejs
[19:58] joshkehn: Then you need to use exports.some_fun
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[19:58] joshkehn: Because browsers won't have require
[19:58] joshkehn: So
[19:58] bemson: exactly
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[19:58] bemson: or I force folks to use require.js?
[19:58] joshkehn: ;(function (root) { root.myFunc = function () { /*…*/ }; }(exports ? exports : window))
[19:58] joshkehn: I wouldn't use require.js
[19:59] bemson: joshkehn: thx, I don't wanna :-p
[19:59] joshkehn: Something like that will create a cross platform wrapper.
[19:59] joshkehn: So you can then say
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[19:59] joshkehn: var myFunc = require('mylib').myFunc;
[19:59] joshkehn: In node on the server.
[19:59] joshkehn: And
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[19:59] joshkehn: <script src="mylib.js"> // Now can use window.myFunc or myFunc globally
[20:00] joshkehn: on a browser.
[20:00] bemson: understood - I guess deems the breaks :-p
[20:00] joshkehn: Ja.
[20:00] bemson: joshkehn: thx very much for the clarification
[20:00] ljackson: has anyone done stress testing on nodejs https/tls ?
[20:00] joshkehn: You can look at https://github.com/joshkehn/defer.js for an example of a lib that is written for both browsers and the server. 
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[20:01] bemson: joshkehn: awesome - thx!
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[20:07] bemson: when I test for typeof exports - it should be an object, right?
[20:07] joshsmith: I'm trying (and failing) to work through Hands-On Node's event emitter exercises and don't really know what I'm doing wrong
[20:07] joshkehn: Should be
[20:07] joshsmith: can someone help me figure this out?
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[20:07] joshkehn: You can just say exports ? exports : window
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[20:07] bemson: joshkehn: thx again mayne - good luck and I hope to return the favor in the near future!
[20:07] joshsmith: this code simply does nothing: http://pastebin.com/xPHePUvU
[20:07] trose: So I posted this to #socket.io with no response...
[20:07] joshkehn: Np
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[20:08] trose: hey all quick question: is it acceptable to keep a message queue and have my socket just periodically check the message queue? say it checks every 30s and can emit messages depending on the string i push to my queue. I'm running into problems with trying to emit messages when the browser is in between pages (and hence does not have an open socket to receive messages)
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[20:09] vkandy: guys can i set archive bit on a file with fs?
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[20:15] alejandromg: vkandy: bit?
[20:15] redsofa: josmith: add myInstance.someMethod(); at the end
[20:15] joshsmith: redsofa: ah
[20:16] deedubs: pretty http://blog.chromium.org/2011/11/game-changer-for-interactive.html
[20:16] joshsmith: redsofa: so what exactly does .on() do?
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[20:20] vkandy: alejandromg: as in the archive attribute ...
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[20:22] vkandy: or some variant of chattr ...
[20:22] alejandromg: vkandy: OH! A windows specific attr
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[20:23] vkandy: yes 
[20:23] alejandromg: but you want to write a file with that attr or you want to read a file with that attrb?
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[20:24] vkandy: both list files with that attribute and after reading, set the attribute
[20:25] vkandy: i need to process some files and i thought i could use that attribute to keep track of which ones i read etc.
[20:25] vkandy: instead of moving "processed" files from one folder to another .
[20:25] emattias has joined the channel
[20:25] alejandromg: Well the bit attr is not in docs but you can set that flag, and set what it goes..
[20:25] alejandromg: OH!
[20:26] bartt1 has joined the channel
[20:26] alejandromg: But you can do that job using other tools from fs
[20:26] vkandy: ok ... can you suggest some ideas?
[20:27] alejandromg: for example: https://github.com/visionmedia/search/blob/master/bin/search#L48
[20:27] alejandromg: It's a good use of that...
[20:27] alejandromg: Well, it's a little more complex example...
[20:28] vkandy: files.filter(hidden) and map() over the list ?
[20:29] CiRlE has joined the channel
[20:29] vkandy: that works too .. but what do i filter on?
[20:29] alejandromg: Oh just ignore the hidden files
[20:29] shanebo: hey guys is there an event that fires before end?
[20:30] bnoordhuis: shanebo: on what type of object?
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[20:30] shanebo: res
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[20:30] vkandy: oh i see .. alright thanks alejandromg
[20:30] bnoordhuis: shanebo: several, what are you looking for?
[20:30] alejandromg: np
[20:30] shanebo: bnoordhuis right before end
[20:31] n1mmy has joined the channel
[20:31] shanebo: bnoordhuis I'm having race conditions with sessions, so I need to store the session right before end in redirect scenarios
[20:31] bnoordhuis: shanebo: oh like that - no, there's no such event
[20:31] joshsmith: can someone try to fork this and tackle the comment here: https://gist.github.com/1383826#comments
[20:32] joshsmith: I am not at all sure what I should be doing here
[20:32] shanebo: bnoordhuis what's the event that happens before end on the http.Server?
[20:33] bnoordhuis: shanebo: well... there's 'finish' but it's undocumented and may go away
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[20:33] shanebo: bnoordhuis what about close?
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[20:33] joshkehn: joshsmith: Clarify what you are looking for?
[20:33] shanebo: nm looks like close is after end
[20:34] bnoordhuis: shanebo: that's a net.Socket event
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[20:34] joshsmith: joshkehn: that's literally all the exercise says
[20:34] EhevuTov__ has joined the channel
[20:34] joshkehn: Just do that exercise? 
[20:34] bnoordhuis: shanebo: the http layer just passes it on
[20:34] shanebo: k
[20:34] joshsmith: joshkehn: yeah, I'm not really sure how to approach it
[20:35] joshsmith: joshkehn: I could do the first one, but I'm struggling just to understand what he means by it
[20:35] jelveh has joined the channel
[20:36] joshsmith: 
ACTION is probably just dumb

[20:36] joshkehn: Probably not dumb. ;)
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[20:39] CIA-109: libuv: 03Ben Noordhuis 07master * r8e4ed88 10/ (9 files in 7 dirs): Wrap platform thread APIs. - http://git.io/muDcfg
[20:39] CIA-109: libuv: 03Ben Noordhuis 07master * r45180fe 10/ (test/benchmark-list.h uv.gyp test/benchmark-thread.c): bench: add thread creation benchmark - http://git.io/dniwbA
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[20:39] joshkehn: joshsmith: You mean like https://gist.github.com/1383843 ?
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[20:46] joshsmith: joshkehn: I'm getting an unexpected token error on that
[20:47] joshkehn: Where?
[20:47] joshkehn: I don't get anything.
[20:47] joshsmith: at the end of setInterval
[20:48] joshsmith: it's like ignoring the interval entirely and not expecting the )
[20:49] maushu_ has joined the channel
[20:49] joshsmith: so it's as though I did setInterval(function() {});
[20:49] joshsmith: very bizarre
[20:49] joshkehn: That is very bizarre.
[20:49] sridatta has joined the channel
[20:49] joshsmith: ah, I see what happened
[20:50] joshsmith: I accidentally commented out that } in the Ticker constructor, so it was an unhelpful error
[20:50] joshkehn: Yeah
[20:50] joshkehn: I fixed that in my script.
[20:50] joshkehn: my fork*
[20:51] joshsmith: yeah, and I didn't. whoops!
[20:51] joshsmith: well, I *guess* this is what he was looking for in the exercise, but I don't really see how it's all that different from the original (aside from your more elegant use of setInterval)
[20:53] joshkehn: It's not all that different.
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[20:53] joshsmith: alright, at least I'm not crazy
[20:53] joshsmith: thanks, though
[20:53] joshkehn: ;)
[20:53] joshkehn: No problem.
[20:53] joshkehn: Rest of the room: I have a dev getting a error with ulimit
[20:53] joshkehn: (node) Hit max file limit. Increase "ulimit -n"
[20:53] MrNibbles has joined the channel
[20:53] joshkehn: Possible / probable causes for that?
[20:55] joshsmith: joshkehn: how many connections are there?
[20:55] joshkehn: None, AFAIK
[20:55] joshsmith: did you check ulimit -n?
[20:56] EhevuTov has joined the channel
[20:56] joshkehn: It's set to the default, 1024
[20:56] joshkehn: I ran into this a while ago. I wasn't closing open files in a recursive listing or I wasn't closing my db conns.
[20:57] Dulak: joshkehn: you on linux?
[20:57] joshsmith: yeah, you're likely not explicitly closing them somewhere
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[20:57] joshkehn: Dulak: Yes
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[20:58] Dulak: joshkehn: you can use lsof to see the open files, it might point you to what is causing the issue
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[21:02] adrianF: hello, can anyone explain to me why to add the processAction function by prototyping and not by defining it right in the Controller function in this example: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6447183/nodejs-module-exports-object-prototype-problem (seen it in some projects)
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[21:10] tanepiper: does anyone know if there is an issue with the node 0.4.12 http client not following 301 redirects?
[21:10] jj0hns0n has joined the channel
[21:13] Bonuspunk: why should it follow?
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[21:14] tanepiper: because it seems the 0.6 one does do this as default
[21:14] tanepiper: based on the tests in my code, it should work on 0.4.12 but failing because it's not following the redirect
[21:16] bnoordhuis: tanepiper: the built-in http client does not follow redirects
[21:16] Bonuspunk: well afaik it never did in 0.4 but https://github.com/mikeal/request handles that stuff
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[21:16] tanepiper: bnoordhuis: well then the 0.6 one may have a bug, as I can reproduce it
[21:17] bnoordhuis: tanepiper: can you show me your test case?
[21:18] tanepiper: bnoordhuis: yup, also just a quick screen side by side: http://screencast.com/t/rltvAGDIuBE
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[21:18] tanepiper: it;s this specific test I'm running: https://github.com/tanepiper/node-bitly/blob/master/tests/shorten.js
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[21:18] tanepiper: https://github.com/tanepiper/node-bitly/blob/master/bitly.js#L51 is the HTTP agent request
[21:18] marcello3d: is it worth paying for the new app store version of growl?
[21:19] marcello3d: anyone have/used it?
[21:19] konobi: zero difference
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[21:20] marcello3d: konobi: the new growl?
[21:20] bnoordhuis: tanepiper: you're running it on different machines?
[21:20] tanepiper: Bonuspunk: yea i know about request i use it a lot - but i want no dependancies with this project
[21:20] tanepiper: bnoordhuis: yea, 0.6 is on windows and 0.4.12 on my server, i also ran it earlier on 0.6.2 on macos and it worked
[21:20] tanepiper: (i.e. it followed through to the JSON)
[21:21] konobi: marcello3d: yup... it's open source though... http://code.google.com/p/growl/
[21:21] bnoordhuis: tanepiper: i would start with trying both versions of node on the same machine
[21:21] einhaender has joined the channel
[21:22] context: what bnoordhuis said
[21:22] arcatan: well, i assume the app store growl does not constantly nag you about upgrading to it :P
[21:22] context: arcatan: i went into settings and disabled 'check for updates'
[21:22] context: i find growl more annoying than helpful most the time
[21:22] context: so no reason to buy it
[21:23] tanepiper: bahh means i need to test it remotely then :/
[21:23] konobi: main reason seems to be so that it will work with apps from the app store, since they have that new sandboxing rule, or something
[21:24] MrNibbles: >> require
[21:24] MrNibbles: whooooops
[21:24] MrNibbles: not my console
[21:27] jacobrask: any progress on the UDP stuff that broke for 0.6?
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[21:30] konobi: tjholowaychuk: why is connect's static middleware so unbelievably slow on large files?
[21:30] mike5w3c has joined the channel
[21:30] tjholowaychuk: konobi how large?
[21:30] tjholowaychuk: it just uses node's readstream/pipe()
[21:30] tjholowaychuk: dont look at me :p
[21:30] wankdanker: jacobrask: i have been watching for progress regularly and have seen none.
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[21:31] jacobrask: ok, too bad
[21:31] konobi: 20Mb -> 80Kb 
[21:31] konobi: and we're talking about i believe a 1Gb file
[21:31] wankdanker: jacobrask: oh, lol. you commented on the issue i posted about dgrams stuff.
[21:32] jacobrask: maybe we are the only 2 people who care ;)
[21:32] innociv_: https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/2157 I don't quite understand what bnoordhuis is saying here.  I see that gdb is a debugger.  But besides that, I don't get what he's copied there.
[21:33] wankdanker: jacobrask: haha. i think there was one other, so i think 3 care. ;)
[21:33] bnoordhuis: innociv_: you're the guy that reported the bug?
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[21:35] wankdanker: hi bnoordhuis. jacobrask and i were just curious about the state of dgram stuff. do you have any input?
[21:36] innociv_: bnoordhuis, yes.
[21:36] innociv_: I'm sadtaco.
[21:36] bnoordhuis: wankdanker: dgram works, broadcast/multicast doesn't
[21:36] bnoordhuis: innociv_: i would like to know where the error originates from
[21:36] innociv_: And I've been  getting it at least since v0.4.12  I believe it happens when another process, like minecraft, uses up all my cpu or ram.
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[21:37] innociv_: I have no idea. I imagine that's what gdb is for.  I installed it, but what do I actually need to do after that.  Simply copy what you pasted there, but replace script.js with my nodejs script?
[21:37] bnoordhuis: innociv_: yes
[21:37] wankdanker: bnoordhuis: sorry, that's what i meant. any forecast on the broadcast/multicast?
[21:37] innociv_: While node is running the script?
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[21:38] context: innociv_: you type in each line one at a time.
[21:38] bnoordhuis: wankdanker: not really - there are some patches floating around but they're not complete
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[21:38] innociv_: Hm?
[21:38] innociv_: context, my script runs fine.
[21:38] context: innociv_: as in, type in "gdb --args node script.js"
[21:38] wankdanker: bnoordhuis: yeah, i've tried some. what would help get that moving? do you guys need tests?
[21:38] innociv_: Then after a while it either crashes, or is using 100% cpu and doesn't respond.
[21:38] context: then you will see a gdb> prompt
[21:38] context: THEN you type in the break ....
[21:38] bnoordhuis: wankdanker: yes
[21:38] context: THEN you type in "run"
[21:38] innociv_: Oh
[21:38] context: then you "wait" as the comment tells you to
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[21:40] tanepiper: bnoordhuis: ok, installed 0.6.2 via nave on my remote machine, tested my code - works on 0.6.2 with 301 follow, does not on 0.4.12
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[21:40] bnoordhuis: tanepiper: NODE_DEBUG="net http" node script.js # should tell you what it does
[21:41] bnoordhuis: maybe also track the traffic with tcpdump
[21:41] innociv_: alright
[21:41] bnoordhuis: i kind of expect it's bitly returning different output
[21:41] innociv_: I did that, and node is running. It'll take a while for it to hit an error though. Usually it's a few hours.
[21:41] bnoordhuis: innociv_: i'm in no rush
[21:42] bnoordhuis: it's not as is we're all out of bugs :/
[21:42] bnoordhuis: *if
[21:42] innociv_: Heh.
[21:42] innociv_: I thought node.js was more finishedish and such.
[21:42] joshsmith: does vows not give code coverage?
[21:42] CiRlE has joined the channel
[21:42] innociv_: Not that I'm some amazing programmer that could develope something like it myself.
[21:43] bnoordhuis: innociv_: it's actually pretty stable, but there are still lots of weird edge cases
[21:43] tanepiper: bnoordhuis: https://gist.github.com/7329d3d2dabba9a66c42
[21:43] tanepiper: bnoordhuis: Bitly API (normally) responds with a tetx/json body
[21:43] tanepiper: *text/json
[21:43] innociv_: It was working perfectly fine, just about, until I put minecraft on my server.
[21:43] innociv_: And minecraft is the most resource hogging thing I've ever seen.
[21:45] innociv_: I've seen other programs that go derp when something else uses up the cpu and ram.
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[21:45] bnoordhuis: tanepiper: did you switch the files around? the 0.6.2 output looks okay, doesn't it?
[21:46] bnoordhuis: btw, what's the url that you query?
[21:46] tanepiper: switch files around?  Yes, I said earlier my code is working on 0.6.2 fine since i released a fix testing it (on 0.6.1 anyway).  Someone reported a bug that it wasn't working on 0.4.12 and i was able to confirm it
[21:47] bnoordhuis: tanepiper: url?
[21:47] tanepiper: bnoordhuis: i generate a url object with url.parse to http://api.bit.ly/v3/shorten
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[21:48] quackquack: can someone paste a direct link the the latest NodeUp episode? the web site doesnt render for me...
[21:48] bnoordhuis: tanepiper: you need to pass in credentials, i take it? i can't do much without a test case
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[21:49] tjholowaychuk: quackquack it's just really really slow i think
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[21:49] tjholowaychuk: works for me after a good 15s or so
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[21:49] tanepiper: bnoordhuis: http://api.bit.ly/v3/shorten?login=bitlynodejs&apiKey=R_8a2a91d31932dc7fda5468033dfe3c15&format=json&longurl=http://nodejs.org&domain=bit.ly
[21:49] quackquack: tjholowaychuk: i get "Unexpected response code: 504" in my javascript console
[21:50] tanepiper: bnoordhuis: all the tests are in https://github.com/tanepiper/node-bitly/tree/master/tests
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[21:51] bnoordhuis: 
ACTION runs tests

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[21:56] joshsmith: what's the practice for developing with BDD (with vows, for example)?
[21:56] bnoordhuis: tanepiper: the url module has changed between 0.4 and 0.6 - url_object.path is a 0.6 addition
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[21:56] joshsmith: is it still red, green, refactor?
[21:56] tanepiper: bnoordhuis: ahh!
[21:58] tanepiper: so for compatibility i'm going to be better manually building the request url :/
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[21:59] tanepiper: hmm bnoordhuis actually, i don't use url.path though? I use pathname in the object, which in docs is in 0.4.12: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.12/api/url.html
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[21:59] tanepiper: (unless you're talking about some underlying thing?)
[22:01] bnoordhuis: tanepiper: your code works accidentally with 0.6 :)
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[22:02] bnoordhuis: you're passing the url object as an options object to http.get() which expects a .path property
[22:02] tanepiper: ahh i see it now in the result of the url.parse
[22:02] tanepiper: so, it's a bug in 0.6 then rather than 0.4?
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[22:03] bnoordhuis: tanepiper: well, it's a buglet in your code
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[22:04] tanepiper: right, ok well i think where i can see some changes to make anyway
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[22:14] tanepiper: so bnoordhuis wouldn't anyone passing a URL object to http.get, get the same "bug" then?
[22:14] tanepiper: (in 0.6)
[22:16] bnoordhuis: tanepiper: only if they don't set a .path property themselves (which you normally would)
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[22:18] tanepiper: hmm, well setting it manually fixes the 0.4.12 issue.  I'm going to mark as worksforme just now, don't really have time to dig in further
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[22:30] jiggliemon: Im trying to use Stylus, and my nested selectors aren't working. https://gist.github.com/1384177
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[22:30] jiggliemon: Does Stylus not support nested selectors?
[22:30] tjholowaychuk: yeah
[22:30] tjholowaychuk: you dont have any properties there
[22:30] jiggliemon: Oh you need props.
[22:30] tjholowaychuk: selectors without props
[22:30] tjholowaychuk: doesnt do much
[22:30] jiggliemon: Im just stubbing out.
[22:30] tjholowaychuk: just chuck a foo: bar in there
[22:30] jiggliemon: I'll put faux selectors.
[22:31] jiggliemon: *properties.
[22:31] jiggliemon: Thanks
[22:32] jiggliemon: who's handle is stylus?
[22:32] tjholowaychuk: handle?
[22:32] jiggliemon: irc name.
[22:32] tjholowaychuk: oh
[22:32] tjholowaychuk: i dont know
[22:32] jiggliemon: weird.
[22:32] jiggliemon: Anyways thanks.
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[22:36] gabaug: hey, just cloned git and ran ./configure and make, but no target found for make install - any ideas?
[22:36] fmeyer_ has joined the channel
[22:36] bnoordhuis: gabaug: `git checkout v0.6.2` - master is switching build systems right now, `make install` isn't implemented yet
[22:36] mmalecki: gabaug: make install doesn't work on master yet
[22:37] gabaug: bnoordhuis: ah, thanks
[22:37] bnoordhuis: too slow, mmalecki!
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[22:37] mmalecki: bnoordhuis: that's what she said
[22:38] EhevuTov: usually the opposite for me
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[22:38] mfussy: Does anyone know of a good solution for a hot redeploy of a Node application / similar to how it's done in Rails?
[22:38] mfussy: (to where there's no down time for the server)
[22:38] mmalecki: mfussy: https://github.com/substack/pushover
[22:39] mmalecki: ah, no down time can get tricky
[22:39] mmalecki: try with cluster
[22:39] CiRlE has joined the channel
[22:39] mmalecki: actually, I was going to write it anyway
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[22:39] mfussy: I'll take a look at pushover. Thanks for the suggestion.
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[22:40] mfussy: I've seen another article on running a staging and production instance and manipulating the file proxy with nginx.
[22:40] CIA-109: node: 03Ben Noordhuis 07v0.6 * r7c180d7 10/ src/node_file.cc : 
[22:40] CIA-109: node: fs: fix uninitialized fs req struct use
[22:40] CIA-109: node: uv_fs_t struct is not initialized on fs error so don't try to clean it up. - http://git.io/FvZ2ng
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[23:07] wankdanker: bnoordhuis: you mentioned earlier that multicast/broadcast tests would be helpful. do you know what is wrong with the previous tests that are now in 'disabled'?
[23:08] bnoordhuis: wankdanker: possibly nothing
[23:08] bnoordhuis: iirc the problem with those is that they're all-or-nothing, we need to land everything to make them pass
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[23:09] CIA-109: libuv: 03Ben Noordhuis 07master * r92c9e95 10/ src/unix/fs.c : 
[23:09] CIA-109: libuv: unix: fix stray pointer free() when HAVE_FUTIMES=0
[23:09] CIA-109: libuv: uv_fs_futime() failed to initialize req.path when HAVE_FUTIMES=0.
[23:09] CIA-109: libuv: uv_fs_req_cleanup() later on tried to free the bogus pointer. - http://git.io/jsloAg
[23:09] CIA-109: libuv: 03Ben Noordhuis 07master * r0834e73 10/ (config-unix.mk src/unix/fs.c src/unix/stream.c uv.gyp): Merge branch 'v0.6' - http://git.io/V8asTw
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[23:09] CIA-109: libuv: 03Ben Noordhuis 07v0.6 * r92c9e95 10/ src/unix/fs.c : 
[23:09] CIA-109: libuv: unix: fix stray pointer free() when HAVE_FUTIMES=0
[23:09] CIA-109: libuv: uv_fs_futime() failed to initialize req.path when HAVE_FUTIMES=0.
[23:09] CIA-109: libuv: uv_fs_req_cleanup() later on tried to free the bogus pointer. - http://git.io/jsloAg
[23:09] wankdanker: bnoordhuis: ok. the one thing i noticed is that it tests binding multiple listeners within the same process. imo it should be done with children.
[23:09] wankdanker: bnoordhuis: i see. 
[23:10] bnoordhuis: wankdanker: if that makes it a better test, i'm all for it
[23:10] wankdanker: bnoordhuis: ok. I'll see what I can do. thanks for your input.
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[23:15] zzak: :D
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[23:41] te-brian: tjholowaychuk: An experiment that I'm sure you'll interpret as a twisted perversion of should.js :)  https://gist.github.com/1379800
[23:41] konobi: jstash: any more luck on the cow-orking front?
[23:42] tjholowaychuk: te-brian haha nice
[23:42] te-brian: tjholowaychuk: The scope thing got me for a while heh... needed to save a reference to the 'should' object
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