[00:00] SubStack: an ssh server with trivially hookable everything would be such fun
[00:00] m0: tjholowaychuk: my problem is that it isn't hitting any url, it is directly going to 404
[00:00] tjholowaychuk: ah
[00:00] tjholowaychuk: hmm
[00:00] tjholowaychuk: that could be many things unfortunately
[00:00] tjholowaychuk: step through with node's debugger maybe
[00:01] TheJH: maushu, I think he's "bradleymeck" here
[00:01] m0: tjholowaychuk: I am doing the following, app.resource('api', .just has index.); app.resource('api/topics', .has index and show.);
[00:02] tjholowaychuk: m0: and which is failing again?
[00:02] maushu: elliottcable, TheJS says, he thinks he's "bradleymeck" here.
[00:02] tjholowaychuk: which action
[00:02] m0: tjholowaychuk: index works for both /api/ and /api/topics/ but I can't get /api/topics/foobar/
[00:02] m0: tjholowaychuk: so "show"
[00:02] tjholowaychuk: hmmm
[00:02] tjholowaychuk: interesting
[00:02] maushu: *TheJH
[00:03] m0: Let me see if I can do a reduction so I can show you
[00:03] mcluskydodallas has joined the channel
[00:03] tjholowaychuk: sure that would help a lot
[00:03] Aikar: welp. I guess its time for me to finally give in and use Unity :(
[00:03] Aikar: just upgraded to 11.10!
[00:03] Brian` has joined the channel
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[00:05] maushu: What is this? https://gist.github.com/1214975
[00:05] Brandon_R: does node have alert
[00:06] Brandon_R: function
[00:06] Brandon_R: is it just an alias for console.log?
[00:06] wilmoore has joined the channel
[00:06] maushu: alertMe is just the name of that function
[00:06] dshaw_: 
ACTION Going to go jump in the Pacific.

[00:06] dshaw_: o/
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[00:08] CIA-48: node: 03Ben Noordhuis 07 * r2f8596e 10/ test/simple/test-setproctitle.js : 
[00:08] CIA-48: node: test: fix bug in setproctitle test
[00:08] CIA-48: node: Output from `ps` may contain trailing whitespace, trim it. - http://git.io/AR625Q
[00:08] catb0t has joined the channel
[00:08] elliottcable: bnoordhuis › THANK YOU.
[00:08] maushu: elliottcable, what is that alertMe code?
[00:08] elliottcable: bnoordhuis › assuming that’s the one that that’s been crashing my testcases each time.
[00:08] elliottcable: maushu › hm? WHat?
[00:09] elliottcable: maushu › no idea, not mine. Just another one of bmeck’s evil hacks, I suppose.
[00:09] bnoordhuis: elliottcable: if that's the only test that fails for you, i consider that progress
[00:09] maushu: elliottcable, where you copied that phrase from.
[00:09] elliottcable: bnoordhuis › well, four were failing, but something to do with setproctitle was actively crashing node :x
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[00:09] elliottcable: maushu › oh, that was from the github issue
[00:10] maushu: What does it do? No matter how I turn my head it still looks the same.
[00:10] bnoordhuis: elliottcable: it was? can you run it through gdb if it still happens?
[00:10] elliottcable: bnoordhuis › erm, if ya give me a moment, sure.
[00:11] elliottcable: the tests take forever and a half for me, so by “a moment” I mean “half an hour”, maybe.
[00:11] elliottcable: also, is there a `make` flag to build debugger symbols in?
[00:11] elliottcable: something to add -ggdb or similar
[00:11] bnoordhuis: elliottcable: ./configure --debug
[00:11] bnoordhuis: produces a second binary node_g that has debug symbols
[00:11] elliottcable: not the full --debug build; because that causes the test suite to take approximately an hour and a half ಠ_ಠ
[00:11] elliottcable: found *that* out the hard way last night
[00:12] elliottcable: uck, I have to run. bnoordhuis, hit me tomorrow, maybe I can try to reproduce the crash I was getting when debugging last night. It wasn’t actually affecting *my* development, I just get my hackles raised when the testsuite in `master` causes segfault windows :3
[00:13] CIA-48: node: 03Igor Zinkovsky 07 * r107b057 10/ deps/v8/build/common.gypi : build: fix windows build - http://git.io/TUuEAw
[00:13] elliottcable: isaacs › here’s the full-and-final changes to merge; the pureq should be in a consistent and prepared state, now: https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/1801/files
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[00:16] elliottcable: What do people use nowadays to generate fairly-nice advertising-websites for their projects?
[00:17] elliottcable: I’m a designer at heart, and can make a beautiful landing page / documentation / README, but it takes me days or even a week+ to get something I’m happy with from scratch
[00:17] elliottcable: and I’m too OCD to just throw something small together for my less-important projects
[00:17] elliottcable: a lot of these project pages look pretty similar, they must be using a generator / tool to build them; I’m just not sure what.
[00:17] DTrejo: docco
[00:17] tizzo-afk has joined the channel
[00:17] DTrejo: or steal one
[00:18] agnat has joined the channel
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[00:18] bnoordhuis: word 97's "export to html" function!
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[00:20] chjj: microsoft knows html?
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[00:21] kmiyashiro: bop
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[00:21] CIA-48: libuv: 03Ben Noordhuis 07 * rcdb3601 10/ AUTHORS : Update AUTHORS and .mailmap - http://git.io/zuXQUQ
[00:21] seebees: anyone able to build node/master on OSX 10.7?
[00:21] seebees: src/unix/ev/ev.c:2666: error: ‘EV_LIBUV_KQUEUE_HACK’ undeclared (first use in this function)
[00:21] seebees: make[1]: *** [src/unix/ev/ev.o] Error 1
[00:21] bnoordhuis: seebees: `make distclean`
[00:22] bnoordhuis: seebees: you're probably looking at stale build files
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[00:22] m0: tjholowaychuk: I used the ones from "examples" folder, and created a new controller, controller/api.js which just has a "index"
[00:23] seebees: bnoordhuis: looks that way.  Now I need to rebake them…. hum...
[00:23] necrodearia has joined the channel
[00:23] bnoordhuis: seebees: `make distclean && ./configure && make`
[00:23] m0: tjholowaychuk: then created a example/paths.js http://pastebin.com/8hP9rQGZ
[00:24] seebees: bnoordhuis:  yup.  worked now.  thanks.
[00:24] m0: tjholowaychuk: the show's don't work for the forums/thread anymore when we make it a path 
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[00:24] tjholowaychuk: m0 i'll take a look
[00:25] m0: tjholowaychuk: what would you recommend for us to make an API restful structure?
[00:25] tjholowaychuk: doesnt really matter
[00:25] tjholowaychuk: i can count at least 20 ways to route, so whatever works for oyu
[00:25] tjholowaychuk: you*
[00:25] m0: tjholowaychuk: I was looking forward to create /api/[service-name], that doesn't seem to work well with express-routing
[00:25] m0: err (resource)
[00:26] tjholowaychuk: you can use express-namespace, express-resource, mounting
[00:26] tjholowaychuk: regular routes
[00:26] tjholowaychuk: all sorts of things
[00:26] m0: tjholowaychuk: I just don't want to reimplement the wheel again :)
[00:26] m0: express-resource seems cleanest approach
[00:27] m0: Ah, your the creator of express, sweet, good job 
[00:27] tjholowaychuk: haha thanks
[00:27] tjholowaychuk: it's still a WIP, simply simply simply
[00:28] m0: :)
[00:28] m0: Anything I could do to help debug the express-resource thing?
[00:28] tjholowaychuk: not other than debugging it
[00:28] tjholowaychuk: with the debugger
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[00:28] tjholowaychuk: i might have time in a bi
[00:28] tjholowaychuk: t
[00:29] m0: You use node-inspector?
[00:29] tjholowaychuk: i just use the one ryan built
[00:29] tjholowaychuk: $ node debug
[00:29] m0: I just got into nodejs for doing this side project, I usually just do Chromium, and extensions https://plus.google.com/116805285176805120365/about
[00:29] digitalDilbert0 has joined the channel
[00:31] m0: It is like gdb, sweet
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[00:34] CIA-48: libuv: 03Ben Noordhuis 07 * r2069a24 10/ src/unix/stream.c : unix: fix file descriptor leak - http://git.io/Aqih2w
[00:35] JmZ: what would be the "recommended" way to stream a serverside download to a client
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[00:36] JmZ: so for example, the client sends a request, the server begins downloading "xyz" from "host2" (this being "host1"), each time it receives data, it also sends that to the client immediately
[00:38] m0: JmZ: perhaps this might help https://github.com/fwg/node-radio-stream/blob/master/lib/radio-stream.js
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[00:40] JmZ: m0: originally i figured i could do it via http, download the file with http.request, *somehow* stream that back out through the response
[00:41] deoxxa: JmZ: you can
[00:42] JmZ: deoxxa: how?
[00:42] JmZ: i understand what headers need to be sent and what not, but im unsure of how to actually stream that data back through the response
[00:43] deoxxa: hold on
[00:43] geekn has joined the channel
[00:44] deoxxa: actually, lemme gist this
[00:44] deoxxa: gonna be a bit too long for a one-liner :P
[00:44] pitlimit: maushu, do you know if hbase work with ueberDB
[00:44] JmZ: haha sure
[00:44] maushu: pitlimit, no idea.
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[00:47] deoxxa: https://gist.github.com/1288791
[00:47] deoxxa: JmZ: ^^
[00:47] deoxxa: not tested, but that's the... gist... of it
[00:47] JmZ: i see what you did there xD
[00:48] deoxxa: there's a whole bunch of error handling and stuff you should do as well, but hey w/e
[00:48] deoxxa: left as an exersize for the reader
[00:48] deoxxa: damn i hate that word
[00:48] deoxxa: exercise
[00:48] JmZ: also i have to send the headers to make it download
[00:48] JmZ: erm, you know, like a dialog
[00:48] deoxxa: ahh
[00:48] elliottcable: DTrejo › Thanks, docco isn’t exactly what I was looking for, but I think that’ll work *very* nicely. ^‿^
[00:48] DTrejo: :)
[00:49] DTrejo: just add a bigass comment at top of your files :0
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[00:49] deoxxa: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.12/api/all.html#response.writeHead
[00:49] devongovett has joined the channel
[00:49] JmZ: ahh great
[00:49] deoxxa: sresponse.writeHead(200, {'Content-Type': 'application/octet-stream', 'Content-Disposition': 'attachment; filename=...'});
[00:49] deoxxa: that kind of thing
[00:49] deoxxa: iirc
[00:50] EyePulp has joined the channel
[00:50] deoxxa: content-type: application/octet-stream will force a file download in nearly any browser, content-disposition will let you suggest a filename
[00:51] CIA-48: node: 03Igor Zinkovsky 07 * r971c3d9 10/ src/node.cc : win: remove pthread-win32 init code - http://git.io/y2qR2Q
[00:51] JmZ: yeah already got the headers but i forgot about .writeHead
[00:52] deoxxa: .write will automatically call .writeHead if it's not been called yet
[00:52] deoxxa: and you can set the headers on the response object
[00:52] deoxxa: that's mainly useful for passing the response through a bunch of independent components before sending it
[00:52] deoxxa: so they can all add their arbitrary headers etc
[00:53] JmZ: yeah i was trying response.header() originally
[00:53] elliottcable: DTrejo › already ahve that
[00:53] elliottcable: DTrejo › first two hundred and fifty lines of my file are comment
[00:53] DTrejo: nice then
[00:53] DTrejo: you're good to go
[00:54] DTrejo: that's a big comment
[00:54] elliottcable: lol.
[00:54] elliottcable: it’s a big library.
[00:54] DTrejo: ah
[00:54] elliottcable: DTrejo › https://github.com/elliottcable/from/blob/fb19155abb/lib/from.js#L1-210
[00:54] DTrejo: link me to it
[00:54] DTrejo: ooh cool
[00:54] elliottcable: that’s out-of-date, I need to re-write it for the new code
[00:54] elliottcable: which is at https://github.com/elliottcable/from/blob/fb19155abb/lib/from-new.js
[00:54] elliottcable: and is completely undocumented as of yet.
[00:55] ninjapig has joined the channel
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[00:57] elliottcable: DTrejo › are you actually looking at that? If so, you’ll need some old historical context to understand it.
[00:57] abraxas has joined the channel
[00:57] elliottcable: I can dig up the mailing-list post, if you care.
[00:58] mcluskydodallas has joined the channel
[00:58] DTrejo: no it's ok
[00:58] DTrejo: I can wait for when you publish it
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[01:02] elliottcable: DTrejo › good. lol.
[01:06] m0: tjholowaychuk: http://pastebin.com/Gycf7cTY is a reduction in one file. I added some notes, I am am trying to debug it, but having issues, I will try to figure out 
[01:06] m0: tjholowaychuk: I can place it as an issue, so we can track it on github
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[01:08] tjholowaychuk: m0:  sounds good
[01:08] m0: tjholowaychuk: aha, a namespace is required!
[01:08] m0: tjholowaychuk: issue 36 comment fixed it
[01:09] m0: tjholowaychuk: someone just opened an issue regarding this, Sean
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[01:14] JmZ: deoxxa: it seems to hang, the code you gave me (combined with the writehead changes)
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[01:15] JmZ: sits doing nothing (which i guess means its downloading but not serving properly, or just doing nothing)
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[01:18] deoxxa: throw some console.warn()'s in there, specifically in cresponse.on("data")
[01:18] jerrysv: better yet, console.dir()
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[01:19] deoxxa: not going to work in an actual console app, as far as i know
[01:21] JmZ: yeah going to leave it for tonight, its 2:30am almost, need sleep
[01:21] admin-_ has joined the channel
[01:21] JmZ: thanks for the help deoxxa, ill look into it more tomorrow
[01:21] admin-_ has joined the channel
[01:21] deoxxa: heh
[01:22] admin-_ has left the channel
[01:22] jerrysv: deoxxa: which not work, console.dir()?
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[01:27] deoxxa: yeah, console.dir() won't work in a node.js app
[01:27] deoxxa: unless i'm misunderstanding .dir
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[01:40] CIA-48: node: 03Ben Noordhuis 07 * r6df574b 10/ (lib/net.js test/simple/test-net-connect-buffer.js): net: properly account multi-byte chars in .bytesWritten - http://git.io/NtPD8A
[01:40] CIA-48: node: 03Ben Noordhuis 07 * r0b92fa0 10/ lib/net.js : (log message trimmed)
[01:40] CIA-48: node: net: fix connect queue bugs
[01:40] CIA-48: node: This commit fixes two bugs in the handling of write requests when the connect()
[01:40] CIA-48: node: call is still in progress.
[01:40] CIA-48: node: 1. The deferred write request's size was counted twice towards `.bytesWritten`.
[01:40] CIA-48: node: 2. The callback was not called. After connecting, `Socket.write()` was called
[01:40] CIA-48: node:  with three arguments (data, encoding, cb) but it ignored the third argument.
[01:41] bnoordhuis: ^ my latest novel
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[01:54] elliottcable: Nuck › here?
[01:54] Nuck: elliottcable: Aye.
[01:55] elliottcable: /join #elliottcable
[01:55] Nuck: o_O
[01:55] jtsnow has joined the channel
[01:55] m0: private ohlala
[01:55] Nuck: elliottcable: Still banned, bro
[01:56] Nuck: 
ACTION just used bro without thinking

[01:56] Nuck: 
ACTION kills himself

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[02:00] jerrysv: deoxxa: uh, works just fine for me
[02:01] jerrysv: >> console.dir({"foo": "bar"});
[02:01] purr: jerrysv: TypeError: Object [object Object] has no method 'dir'
[02:01] jerrysv: .. console.dir({"foo": "bar"});
[02:01] catb0t: ReferenceError: console is not defined
[02:01] jerrysv: ah, the bots have it disabled
[02:02] DTrejo: >> 1 < 2
[02:02] purr: DTrejo: (boolean) true
[02:02] v8bot_ has joined the channel
[02:02] DTrejo: >> 0 << ;
[02:02] purr: DTrejo: SyntaxError: Unexpected token ;
[02:03] jerrysv: deoxxa: try it in the repl
[02:03] DTrejo: >> (0 - 0) << 3
[02:03] purr: DTrejo: (number) 0
[02:03] Nuck: elliottcable: ?
[02:03] elliottcable: Nuck › I /invite’d you, wanted to talk some Node stuff
[02:03] elliottcable: weird, /invite from an op should have superceded the ban
[02:03] Nuck: elliottcable: Doesn't override bans
[02:03] Nuck: Obviously
[02:04] Lingerance: Give him +e
[02:04] elliottcable: jerrysv › a node-interface is coming soon for the bot; until then, it only has console.log
[02:04] elliottcable: jerrysv › pointless psuedo-security, but whatever, heh
[02:04] Nuck: elliottcable: God that was a heavy ban. nuck*!*@* And yet, rather easy to go around haha
[02:04] jerrysv: elliottcable: understand, was just trying to prove a point that console.dir() works in node
[02:04] dexter_e has joined the channel
[02:04] Lingerance: +e works like +b except it's a whitelist that overrides +b
[02:04] elliottcable: lol, unbanned :3
[02:04] elliottcable: jerrysv › yah, I know ^‿^
[02:05] Nuck: elliottcable: <3
[02:05] elliottcable: just sayin’, it’ll be available soonish
[02:05] Nuck: elliottcable: That looks so creepy to me o_O
[02:05] infynyxx has joined the channel
[02:05] Nuck: elliottcable: The mouth is offkilter
[02:05] elliottcable: Nuck › I’m too lazy to type very much; I wasn’t trying to prevent people from getting around them
[02:05] elliottcable: Nuck › I just didn’t want all of the idlers’ clients’ auto-joins to re-join them
[02:05] Nuck: elliottcable: haha you could've just banned unaffiliated/nuck :P
[02:07] bwinton has joined the channel
[02:07] jerrysv: well, that was nice
[02:08] elliottcable: I need to stop saying that channel’s name in public
[02:08] jerrysv: hahaha
[02:08] elliottcable: Nuck › THE CHANNEL THAT SHALL NOT BE NAMED
[02:08] elliottcable: I’ll just +i it someday
[02:08] jerrysv: not hard to find
[02:08] elliottcable: but that pisses eveyrone off
[02:08] Nuck: elliottcable: MOOORDOOOOOOR
[02:08] elliottcable: jerrysv › well yeah, duh
[02:08] chjj: what channel?
[02:08] jerrysv: thankfully, i never talk node
[02:08] elliottcable: but we’ve had so many fucking idlers and shit, I’m tired of it, I only want my close friends and compatriots in there
[02:08] Nuck: elliottcable: Well, I just have ChanServ in there and then +i and +I
[02:08] jerrysv: chjj: the one i just got kicked from
[02:08] Nuck: elliottcable: Least that's what I did for my company chat
[02:08] elliottcable: Nuck › that’s what we did with the old channel, before we moved to the new name
[02:08] chjj: oh, i see, its like a secret clubhouse
[02:09] elliottcable: but everybody hates the +I crap
[02:09] jerrysv: chjj: apparently
[02:09] elliottcable: chjj › yes, very very secret
[02:09] elliottcable: super-duper secret
[02:09] Nuck: elliottcable: But why? :/
[02:09] elliottcable: you’ll never be cool enough to know about #elliottcable
[02:09] elliottcable: ohfuc—
[02:09] Nuck: elliottcable: It's not like it's more pain on the joiner's part?
[02:09] elliottcable: Nuck › it’s more pain because people kept having to ask me to +I their alt nickames or bots or wtfever
[02:10] elliottcable: it’s just too much work all around, and Nobody Cares™
[02:10] Nuck: elliottcable: ah
[02:10] elliottcable: jerrysv › I was just doing that for humour, by the way; you’re welcome if you’d like to visit, but I guarantee you you’ll be bored.
[02:10] Nuck: elliottcable: Yeah, for my company, most of us have hostmasks, so I just +I that
[02:10] elliottcable: we mostly talk programming-language design
[02:10] elliottcable: or make immature jokes
[02:10] luke` has joined the channel
[02:11] jerrysv: immature jokes i get bored of, language design i've never tired of
[02:13] jerrysv: anyone in nyc want to meet up next week and chat node/grab drinks?
[02:13] elliottcable: if you want to drive down the coast to NC, maybe. :3
[02:13] Nuck: elliottcable: LOLOLOLOL COCKS
[02:13] Nuck: 'nuff said.
[02:13] jerrysv: elliottcable: not planning on having a car, and only in town for 3 days, alas
[02:13] Nuck: And there's my immature joke for the day.
[02:14] Nuck: jerrysv: Go hang with Nodejitsu or somebody else in Silicon Alley
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[02:15] jerrysv: Nuck: working on it, indexzero may be on my coast, and planning on trying to hook up with hij1nx
[02:15] elliottcable: jerrysv › oh, where are you from, then?
[02:15] jerrysv: elliottcable: portland
[02:15] elliottcable: hij1nx, now there’s a name I’ve not heard in years
[02:15] elliottcable: did he stop being involved in Node?
[02:15] Nuck: Central valley repre— oh wait, nobody's here anymore.
[02:15] elliottcable: jerrysv › one of my best friends lives there. And the rest of them, save one, live up in Washington State.
[02:16] jerrysv: elliottcable: he was still involved in node last i saw him
[02:16] elliottcable: just doesn’t IRC?
[02:16] jerrysv: elliottcable: does your friend show up to pdxjs?
[02:16] elliottcable: she’s not a programmer
[02:16] elliottcable: well, actually, her girlfriend is
[02:16] elliottcable: nexxy?
[02:16] elliottcable: Emily?
[02:16] jerrysv: haven't met her? doesn't show up to the meetups, but have seen her on irc
[02:16] elliottcable: she’s a Node fan, but idfk if she does pdxjs
[02:16] elliottcable: yeah, okay
[02:17] Nuck: elliottcable: lolnexxy
[02:17] jerrysv: no, only women who have shown up to the javascript admirers have been my SO and one person i work with that showed up last month for my presentation
[02:17] Nuck: 
ACTION has no comment

[02:18] jerrysv: nuck: i've seen your battles, i see your no comment
[02:19] elliottcable: 
ACTION giggles

[02:19] Nuck: jerrysv: haha
[02:19] elliottcable: nexxy and everybody gets along like fire and gasoline.
[02:19] Nuck: elliottcable: I've maanged to stop getting in scary cutthroat arguments with her.
[02:19] elliottcable: but I’ve blood-sworn to my friend, her SO, that I wouldn’t say anything further bad about Nexxy, so <silence/>
[02:19] Nuck: So that's an improvement.
[02:19] elliottcable: Nuck › I thought you just /ignore’d her forever or something
[02:19] jerrysv: that said, no, i've never met her.  i know a lot of women in tech, but not her.
[02:19] Nuck: elliottcable: Nope, she's too active in #geekli.st for that :P
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[02:20] elliottcable: who actually caresa bout #geekli.st
[02:20] Nuck: I hate ignoring, it shows me half a convo
[02:20] elliottcable: anyway, IRC drama is boring: `from.js`!
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[02:20] Nuck: elliottcable: I agree, when you spit out IRC drama from .js, it sucks.
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[02:21] chjj: Nuck gets into arguments with Nexxy after he says something racist
[02:21] jerrysv: chjj: and after almost every other comment too
[02:21] Nuck: chjj: Shut up, Mexican.
[02:21] chjj: haha
[02:21] Nuck: :P
[02:22] Nuck: chjj: <3
[02:22] chjj: haha@jerrysv - not nuck :)
[02:22] elliottcable: GoldFish is the god-damned shit.
[02:22] elliottcable: “Hold Tight” by GoldFish: http://open.spotify.com/track/3heDU39IBfiespWweM21qA
[02:22] Nuck: So, who here loves iOS 5?
[02:22] chjj: i dont
[02:22] jerrysv: nuck: love and hate relationship
[02:22] elliottcable: I couldn’t care less, anymore
[02:22] Nuck: elliottcable: I'm imagining god forsaking a pile of feces
[02:22] chjj: i dont like watered down mobile operating systems
[02:22] elliottcable: I was interested a few months ago
[02:22] chjj: so im guessing i wont like it
[02:22] Nuck: It's an entertaining mental image
[02:22] elliottcable: lol chjj
[02:22] jerrysv: still trying to buy an hp touchpad
[02:22] elliottcable: android nut?
[02:22] jerrysv: but mostly for the hack factor
[02:23] chjj: hm? no
[02:23] chjj: why does that mean i like android?
[02:23] Nuck: jerrysv: I was gonna
[02:23] Nuck: I gave up
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[02:23] chjj: i just said i dont like watered down mobile OS's
[02:23] jerrysv: i haven't given up YET
[02:23] Nuck: The employees snatched most of them up
[02:23] devyn: well.
[02:23] jerrysv: waiting for the second run
[02:23] devyn: 
ACTION sighs

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[02:23] jerrysv: then hopefully some more hacks
[02:24] Nuck: jerrysv: Second run happened
[02:24] Nuck: Most got snatched up by employees
[02:25] jerrysv: didn't see the "post" about the second run though
[02:25] Nuck: Dunno when the few remaining are going up but they're doing a contest for like 4
[02:25] Nuck: jerrysv: Yeah, it was just employees who got first pick
[02:25] jerrysv: if that's the case, i need to stop following brynahp - most inane crap on twitte
[02:25] jerrysv: r
[02:25] Nuck: jerrysv: Might still come out
[02:25] Nuck: IDK
[02:25] jerrysv: wouldn't be surprised if it happened while i was on vaca without net access
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[02:26] jerrysv: got notified that someone was copying one of my libraries while on vaca
[02:26] jerrysv: most annoying thing ever, trying to deal with service providers and dmca stuff while not having net access
[02:27] Nuck: jerrysv: Your libraries?
[02:27] jerrysv: nuck: https://github.com/JerrySievert/node-date-utils
[02:27] jerrysv: Nuck: someone wholesale copied it, changed the copyright, and published under their own name
[02:28] Nuck: jerrysv: woooooooow
[02:28] Nuck: That's sad
[02:28] jerrysv: yeah, i have a very open license on it too
[02:28] chjj: jerrysv: why?
[02:29] jerrysv: chjj: no idea? trying to up his resume?
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[02:29] chjj: jerrysv: did you successfully dmca him in the face?
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[02:30] jerrysv: chjj: isaac removed it from npm on my request, github wanted a dmca takedown notice, but my SO convinced me to be "nice" and send a threatening email before ruining his life (while we were walking in a nature preserve on maui, so she had a good chance to win the argument)
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[02:31] ctide: yeah jerry, i gave up on brynahp
[02:31] ctide: i couldn't handle it anymore
[02:31] ctide: i decided not having a touchpad was better than having my brain slowly melted
[02:31] Nuck: ctide: bahahaha
[02:31] Nuck: I check Google every week for news
[02:32] Nuck: I'll prolly just save for a macbook
[02:32] elliottcable: I unfollowed one of my best friends
[02:32] elliottcable: because she always tweeted about Justin Bieber and KE$HA
[02:32] elliottcable: or is it KE&HA
[02:32] elliottcable: some ASCII hack, idfr.
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[02:32] elliottcable: it’s crazy how much more annoying someon can be on Twitter than offline
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[02:33] Nuck: elliottcable: KE$HA, because she's a pile of $HIT.
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[02:33] elliottcable: &HIT?
[02:33] elliottcable: 
ACTION is listening to Bonobo right now

[02:34] Nuck: elliottcable: &kesha;
[02:34] jerrysv: ctide: i am apparently more patient
[02:34] jerrysv: or buy a fire once it proves hackable
[02:35] chjj: elliottcable: i think twitter is inherently annoying
[02:35] elliottcable: pointer to kesha?
[02:35] elliottcable: what?
[02:35] elliottcable: the fuck?
[02:35] elliottcable: chjj › I have 50,000 tweets, dude, you don’t need to be telling me that
[02:35] elliottcable: I was in the, like, first 10,000 members
[02:36] elliottcable: accounts
[02:36] elliottcable: whatevz
[02:36] elliottcable: I quat a few weeks ago, anyway. I’m tired of it, have better things to be doing than curating content the fucks who followed me on there.
[02:36] Nuck: elliottcable: Nope, I just URL encoded the bitch
[02:36] Nuck: elliottcable: Hey, you had millisecond response times, you were great
[02:37] chjj: i wonder how long until people get tired of twitter
[02:37] Nuck: You should just make a new account
[02:37] Nuck: And bring that to 50k
[02:37] Nuck: And then again
[02:37] Nuck: And again
[02:37] Nuck: And again
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[02:40] jerrysv: on that note, good night folks. more work to be done later
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[03:00] devyn: lol
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[03:14] elliottcable: chjj › well, if I’m any indication, it’s starting right about now for the majority of old-hat users
[03:14] elliottcable: chjj › there’s an inexhaustible supply of newcomers, though
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[03:14] vicapow: any suggestions on the best DOM parser?
[03:14] davidbanham has joined the channel
[03:14] vicapow: so far, node-htmlparser looks promising
[03:15] deoxxa: htmlparser + soupselect = easy peasy parsing
[03:15] vicapow: deoxxa: cool
[03:15] deoxxa: https://github.com/deoxxa/node-nyaatorrents << i used them for this, made it a snap to get working
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[03:15] kenperkins: sup ppls
[03:16] vicapow: kenperkins: sup person
[03:16] kenperkins: just basking in the glow of release day
[03:17] elliottcable: || var p = [1.000000000190015, 76.18009172947146, -86.50532032941677, 24.01409824083091, -1.231739572450155, 1.208650973866179E-3, -5.395239384953E-6]
[03:17] elliottcable: || function factorial(n)                     { var d, i; ++n
[03:17] elliottcable: ||    for (d = p[0], i = 1; i <= 6; ++i)
[03:17] elliottcable: ||       d += p[i] / (n + i)
[03:17] elliottcable: ||    return Math.sqrt(2 * Math.PI) / n * d
[03:17] elliottcable: ||       * Math.pow(n + 5.5, n + 0.5)
[03:17] elliottcable: ||       * Math.exp(-(n + 5.5))              }
[03:17] elliottcable: >> factorial(0.63)
[03:17] purr: elliottcable: (number) 0.8972442325818689
[03:17] elliottcable: ariwauotaowirawnroawir ios sorry, wrong channel
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[03:24] kenperkins: hm
[03:24] kenperkins: I can't code when I'm distracted
[03:24] SubStack: write tests
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[03:26] kenperkins: good idea
[03:26] kenperkins: we need more tests.
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[03:33] SubStack: tests are pretty great
[03:33] SubStack: true story
[03:34] chilts: heh
[03:34] elliottcable: !trippin’ @ Nuck
[03:34] elliottcable: aw
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[03:34] elliottcable: !trippin' @ Nuck
[03:34] purr: Nuck: http://pastebin.com/RP1hWBHP
[03:34] elliottcable: there we go
[03:35] Nuck: ;3
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[04:35] JakeyChan: i ?
[04:35] JakeyChan: hi ? I have stupid question :)
[04:36] JakeyChan: you know when run node, the terminal will be blocked !
[04:37] JakeyChan: I can't quite the terminal !
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[04:39] Lingerance: Ctrl+C
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[04:40] jesusabdullah: Some things you might have to intercept ctrl-c by-hand. There are some examples of that in node-charm I think
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[04:43] Nuck: elliottcable: I'll admit I sorta earned that :P
[04:43] kenperkins: hey jesus
[04:43] kenperkins: see all the news today? :)
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[04:45] jesusabdullah: No? I crashed out this afternoon, so I've missed pretty much everything today
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[04:53] elliottcable: Nuck › lol
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[04:54] Nuck: elliottcable: I have a horrible tendency to ramble
[04:54] JakeyChan: exec /usr/local/bin/node workspace/index.js >> /var/log/node.log 2>&1 &
[04:54] JakeyChan: this command will let node run on the background ?
[04:55] Nuck: JakeyChan: Honestly, I just use forever
[04:55] Nuck: npm install forever -g
[04:55] Nuck: Then forever start index.js
[04:55] Lingerance: Unless you're grabbing the PID, exec isn't needed.
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[04:56] JakeyChan: but this is simple :)
[04:56] Nuck: JakeyChan: I think forever is a lot simpler
[04:56] Nuck: And it keeps it online
[04:57] Nuck: And it restarts daemons easily, etc.
[04:57] JakeyChan: sounds good !
[04:57] Lingerance: IMO the Forever example would be simpler.  Yours also lacks auto-restart (which you can also get with monit, but monit is more complicated)
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[05:12] Nuck: elliottcable: Mind if I just sit in there and wait for people to STF over my presence?
[05:12] Nuck: *WTF
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[05:15] kenperkins: jesusabdullah: we kind of went big today
[05:15] kenperkins: jesusabdullah: http://uncrunched.com/2011/10/14/youll-be-in-love-with-clipboard-shortly/
[05:15] elliottcable: Nuck › lol sure
[05:16] Nuck: elliottcable: ;3
[05:17] niftylettuce_: whats the best way to watch a sensor for output?
[05:17] niftylettuce_: e.g. /path/to/mysensor/output
[05:17] niftylettuce_: e.g. accelerometer
[05:17] purr has joined the channel
[05:17] niftylettuce_: I tried fs.watchFile but it doesn't work
[05:17] Nuck: niftylettuce_: Have a C module hook directly or something?
[05:18] Nuck: niftylettuce_: Do you just open the file and treat it as a stream?
[05:18] niftylettuce_: Nuck: this obvs doesnt work https://gist.github.com/656456628d428176e864
[05:18] Nuck: niftylettuce_: Try fs.openReadStream?
[05:18] Nuck: maybe?
[05:20] niftylettuce_: no such thing as openReadStream
[05:20] Nuck: niftylettuce_: uhhhh
[05:20] niftylettuce_: ill just tail the file :)
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[05:20] Nuck: niftylettuce_: Look in the fs docs
[05:20] Nuck: It's a thing to get a ReadableStream from a file >_>
[05:20] niftylettuce_: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.3.1/api/fs.html
[05:21] Nuck: Those are very old docs BTW
[05:21] Nuck: v0.3.1
[05:21] kenperkins: yow
[05:21] kenperkins: speaking of which
[05:22] kenperkins: what version is stable
[05:22] Nuck: 0.4.x right now
[05:22] Nuck: 0.6.x soonly
[05:25] niftylettuce_: ima just tail the file :)
[05:25] Nuck: tail isn't async
[05:26] niftylettuce_: child process
[05:26] Nuck: And it adds overhead of calling out
[05:26] niftylettuce_: Nuck: then how else might I?
[05:26] Nuck: niftylettuce_: Try a stream?
[05:26] kenperkins: ok good
[05:26] kenperkins: I was worried that we're still on 4.11 in production
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[05:28] Nuck: kenperkins: You should prolly be on v0.4.12 ;)
[05:28] kenperkins: any major changes?
[05:28] kenperkins: we try not to fuck with production much
[05:28] Nuck: prolly not haha
[05:28] Nuck: kenperkins: Yeah, I agree
[05:28] kenperkins: especially since we're so new at node, and we've got some eyes on us
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[05:32] Nuck: kenperkins: I saw yall on HN earlier
[05:32] kenperkins: really?
[05:32] Nuck: Right?
[05:32] kenperkins: link
[05:32] kenperkins: I didn't see that one
[05:32] Nuck: I think
[05:32] Nuck: Maybe
[05:32] Nuck: IDK
[05:32] kenperkins: uncrunched was the big coverage that I know of today
[05:33] Nuck: I think it may've hit like #30
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[05:34] Nuck: kenperkins: I think the article on uncrunched made it up on HN for a few votes quickly?
[05:34] Nuck: IDK
[05:34] kenperkins: possibly
[05:34] kenperkins: I'll go ook
[05:34] Nuck: I'm trying to remember where I saw the startuo
[05:34] kenperkins: we were in MIT's techreview yesterday
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[05:39] Nuck: kenperkins: Hmmm can't find it on HN >_>
[05:39] kenperkins: me either :(
[05:39] Nuck: 
ACTION shrugs

[05:39] kenperkins: oh well
[05:39] Nuck: I'm starting a company too
[05:39] Nuck: artuous.com
[05:39] Nuck: We're also building on Node.js
[05:39] kenperkins: datastore>
[05:40] Nuck: kenperkins: Mongo for longterm, behind Mongoose
[05:40] Nuck: Redis for caching
[05:41] deoxxa: ooh ooh are we doing show and tell? :D
[05:41] kenperkins: gotcha
[05:41] Nuck: lol
[05:41] Nuck: kenperkins: We have some things which require millisecond responses that Mongo just can't provide
[05:41] kenperkins: I hear ya
[05:42] kenperkins: client code?
[05:43] Nuck: kenperkins: Well, templating with Handlebars, clientside JS through jQuery and some custom libs
[05:44] deoxxa: http://i.imgur.com/PaUOK.png
[05:44] deoxxa: this is what i've built at work with node :3
[05:44] deoxxa: real time event reporting for GPS tracking devices
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[05:44] kenperkins: ok tell me more
[05:45] Nuck: tell me more, tell me more, like does he have a car :D
[05:45] Nuck: 
ACTION breaks into sudden musicals

[05:45] deoxxa: haha
[05:45] Nuck: I hope no VC ever asks me to tell them more ;-;
[05:45] Nuck: For their sake
[05:45] Nuck: They don't wanna hear me sing
[05:46] deoxxa: data comes from the devices in commercial vehicles (mostly mining trucks and stuff) and contains information like engine statistics, speed, location, time, etc
[05:46] kenperkins: i've been so fried from media coverage for 2 days
[05:46] kenperkins: i just want to chat
[05:46] kenperkins: if that means having fun in here relaxing learning about your stuff 
[05:46] kenperkins: that's good by me
[05:46] Nuck: kenperkins: haha
[05:46] deoxxa: hits a "collector" that decodes the various binary protocols (we support about 5 different devices)
[05:46] kenperkins: mining trucks?
[05:46] Nuck: kenperkins: sounds like you had a good launch tho
[05:47] kenperkins: Nuck: it's hard to imagine much more positive coverage than we've had so far (wait's for the shoe to drop)
[05:47] vicapow: and suggestions for removing padding from strings?
[05:47] deoxxa: goes from there to our "data processor" that fetches information like geographic zone, driver information, speed limit, etc
[05:47] Nuck: vicapow: Like, trim()?
[05:47] deoxxa: then ends up inside mongodb in two collections; one capped and one regular
[05:47] deoxxa: kenperkins: basically huuuuge trucks out at mining operations
[05:47] vicapow: Nuck: possible. /me  goes and looks up trim 
[05:48] deoxxa: like, trucks with wheels bigger than your average house
[05:48] deoxxa: crazy stuff
[05:48] kenperkins: wow
[05:48] Nuck: deoxxa: Holy fuck.
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[05:48] Nuck: Seriously.
[05:48] Nuck: Wow.
[05:48] kenperkins: like those huge coal mines i watch on discovery and shit
[05:48] deoxxa: yeah those ones!
[05:48] kenperkins: awesome.
[05:48] kenperkins: why mongo for guys?
[05:48] kenperkins: (I've become a bit of a riak fan)
[05:48] Nuck: deoxxa: How many of these bigass trucks do you guys have?
[05:48] Nuck: kenperkins: It's queryable JSON
[05:49] Nuck: That's all I had to hear and I was sold
[05:49] deoxxa: oh we don't own the trucks, we just sell the GPS devices and monitoring platform to companies that do
[05:49] Nuck: It's if SQL met JSON
[05:49] kenperkins: ah, so you guys like the arbitrary queries :)
[05:49] kenperkins: yea, that's not so critical for me :) but I see the appeal as an old rdbms guhy
[05:49] deoxxa: we're using mongodb because it lets us map the data coming from these units (which is all sorts of random stuff) directly to database records
[05:50] Nuck: kenperkins: yeah.  Mongo isn't the most reliable sadly
[05:50] kenperkins: aware :)
[05:50] deoxxa: the reliability thing was an issue for us as well
[05:50] Nuck: That's one thing I expect my SA to do for me :P
[05:50] Nuck: He gets to learn the tweakings :P
[05:51] deoxxa: we've written all our software to allow us to replay logs of data to reconstruct databases if they become unrecoverable
[05:51] Nuck: deoxxa: The word is "journalled"
[05:51] Nuck: And Mongo has it now too :P
[05:51] deoxxa: that also comes in handy for fixing bugs in the augmentation process as well
[05:51] deoxxa: ah not quite, it's not a log of database operations
[05:51] Nuck: Honestly, most of our data isn't technically critical
[05:51] deoxxa: it's more just a raw log of what comes in off the wire (after being decoded)
[05:52] deoxxa: we have crazy SLAs where we're required to process and store something like 99.999% of data that gets to us
[05:52] deoxxa: we're not responsible for transport problems, thankfully
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[05:52] ninjapig: what does a DBA do?
[05:53] Nuck: ninjapig: Database Administrator?
[05:53] ninjapig: yes
[05:53] deoxxa: so if the network goes down out in wherever the heck these peopel are, we don't get bitten for it
[05:53] Nuck: ninjapig: Administrates databases
[05:53] deoxxa: *people
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[05:53] Nuck: ninjapig: :P
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[05:53] ninjapig: doesn't sound like a lot of work
[05:53] kenperkins: ninjapig: keeps developers from getting work done
[05:53] deoxxa: ^^ this
[05:54] Nuck: yup
[05:54] ninjapig: so it's not a lot of work?
[05:54] kenperkins: oh contrare, monfrare
[05:54] Nuck: I expect my platform to be dealt with by my SA and whoever he chooses to hire if ever we need more people
[05:54] kenperkins: keeping devs from being productive is the hardest fucking job on earth
[05:54] kenperkins: why else would you pay them such ungodly salaries
[05:54] Nuck: kenperkins: haha
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[05:55] ninjapig: so DBAs have it rough?
[05:55] kenperkins: not that clipboard is huge (5 people incl founder) but we're all just engineers. no dbas. no specialists.
[05:55] deoxxa: only if they're in the same building as the devs
[05:55] deoxxa: ninjapig: in very big operations, they'll generally take care of making sure backups are up to date, databases are tuned correctly, etc, etc
[05:55] deoxxa: along with letting the devs know if something they're doing is making things slow
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[05:56] deoxxa: well, ideally, anyway
[05:56] Nuck: kenperkins: we have an SA, two website devs and a man who does primarily mobile dev (but also pitches in for the site)
[05:56] Nuck: With something like Mongo, plus a new platform like Node, we need an SA
[05:56] deoxxa: git is our sysadmin
[05:56] deoxxa: haha
[05:57] kenperkins: YAY
[05:57] kenperkins: new BMW 3 is out, and I still like mine better.
[05:57] deoxxa: we have no time at work for SA, so i cooked up a system where all the configs and software versions are kept in git repositories
[05:57] kenperkins: terrified i would have to replace it
[05:58] Nuck: BMW 3?
[05:58] mmalecki: deoxxa: no need to do it by yourself, there are such systems
[05:59] kenperkins: Nuck: http://www.clipboard.com/clip/LR-9JHnzBF101hmYnsC455e7yWANjF1MvxHe
[05:59] deoxxa: mmalecki: not for our custom apps :(
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[05:59] Nuck: mmalecki: What's up with the odd nick?
[06:00] Nuck: kenperkins: haha an actula car
[06:00] Nuck: I was confused
[06:00] mmalecki: Nuck: that's my gh handle, wanted to make it a bit easier for people
[06:00] kenperkins: :(
[06:01] Nuck: mmalecki: pfffffft you just made it more complex
[06:01] Nuck: Now I needa recognize you as mmalecki and not drmckay
[06:01] Nuck: And what about dmkbot?
[06:01] mmalecki: and hij1nx said that I should consolidate my identities, soooo
[06:01] mmalecki: dmkbot is fucking down
[06:01] mmalecki: I had no time to fix it
[06:01] Nuck: mmalecki: that it is
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[06:02] mmalecki: I'll try replacing it with something kohai-based
[06:02] Nuck: mmalecki: Nah, use the IRC lib from oftnbot :D
[06:03] Nuck: 'tis what I'll be using for my bot
[06:03] mmalecki: I'll look into it
[06:04] Nuck: mmalecki: It's buried deep in the libs on the oftnbot repo
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[07:04] runvnc_: whats up people
[07:04] runvnc_: anyone here
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[07:06] kenperkins: no
[07:06] runvnc_: Hey there
[07:06] runvnc_: Does anyone want to talk me out of building another node.js hosting service
[07:08] grh2g_: hi. im having trouble installing node on ubuntu. first configure couldnt fine the openssl pakage even after i confirmed it was installed. (used ./configure --without-ssl to get around that) now im getting Build failed:  -> task failed (err #q): {task: cxx node_zlib.cc -> node_zlib_5.o} when i run make
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[07:09] grh2g_: typo, meant. err #1 not #q
[07:10] runvnc_: Is this the latest unstable?
[07:11] grh2g_: i believe so
[07:11] runvnc_: is zlib installed
[07:12] grh2g_: yes
[07:12] runvnc_: what else does it say
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[07:13] runvnc_: does cxx give an error
[07:13] runvnc_: did you build as a random user or as root
[07:14] runvnc_: what happens if you run sudo make
[07:14] grh2g_: [18/34] cxx: src/node_zlib.cc -> out/Release/src/node_zlib_5.o
[07:14] grh2g_: /usr/bin/g++ -pthread -m32 -g -O3 -DHAVE_MONOTONIC_CLOCK=0 -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -DHAVE_FDATASYNC=0 -DARCH="ia32" -DPLATFORM="linux" -D__POSIX__=1 -Wno-unused-parameter -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -IRelease/src -I../src -IRelease/deps/http_parser -I../deps/http_parser -IRelease/deps/uv/include -I../deps/uv/include -IRelease/deps/uv/src/ares -I../deps/uv/src/ares -IRelease/deps/v8/include -I../deps/v8/include -Ide
[07:14] grh2g_: ../src/node_zlib.cc:28:18: fatal error: zlib.h: No such file or directory
[07:14] grh2g_: compilation terminated.
[07:14] grh2g_: run as random user
[07:15] grh2g_: havnt tried root yet
[07:15] runvnc_: ok so its almost like zlib isn't installed or not in a way that the compile is picking up
[07:15] runvnc_: maybe there is a zlib dev or something
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[07:15] runvnc_: zlib1g-dev
[07:16] grh2g_: i had the same issue with openssl. its deffintatly installed. but not detected
[07:16] runvnc_: maybe it wants dev files
[07:16] runvnc_: maybe the header is in that other package
[07:16] grh2g_: installing zlib1g-dev
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[07:18] grh2g_: runing make again
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[07:18] grh2g_: will take a while as its only on a net book
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[07:20] runvnc_: you could also try this http://apptob.org/
[07:20] grh2g_: compiled correctly, make install done.
[07:21] grh2g_: what a quick way to test its all working
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[07:25] grh2g_: nvm its working. thnx for the help :)
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[07:33] runvnc_: np
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[07:33] DeltachaosDeskto: ji @all
[07:33] runvnc_: ji back
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[07:44] niftylettuce_: Nuck: yt?
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[08:27] niftylettuce_: anyone online that has worked with node readStream or async alternatives for getting tailed output of a system device? 
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[09:39] runvnc_: has anyone ever has express tell you next() is not defined
[09:39] runvnc_: am I crazy or retarded
[09:40] ErikCorryV8: Or you have a local variable called express
[09:40] runvnc_: oh I see no I'm retarded
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[09:41] runvnc_: next is supposed to be the third param thats where it comes from
[09:41] runvnc_: thanks
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[09:41] ErikCorryV8: Don't mention it :-)
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[09:50] kerx: hi all, i'm a bit curious to know what the practical applications of node.js are (if any) beyond web service development (i.e.: chat servers, and the like for the web)
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[09:52] kerx: for example, could node.js be used to create a SMTP server?
[09:52] Jarda: yes
[09:52] deoxxa: kerx: we use node.js at work to do all sorts of stuff; specifically in the realm of M2M (machine-to-machine) applications
[09:53] kerx: amazing
[09:53] kerx: for me at least
[09:53] deoxxa: kerx: to do that, we have to handle a whole bunch of weird binary protocols, but i've found it's relatively painless
[09:53] deoxxa: especially with node-binary
[09:53] Jarda: https://github.com/aredridel/node-smtp
[09:53] kerx: are there open source things up that i could view?
[09:54] deoxxa: heaps, search github for node under javascript
[09:54] deoxxa: or poke around npmjs.org's search area
[09:54] kerx: also, any suggested references beyond the basics that gear one towards designing more systems level nodejs?
[09:55] deoxxa: the manual is a good place to start (cliched as it may be)
[09:55] kerx: so essentially, one could replace many tasks w/ node.js that one were doing in say C/C++?
[09:55] deoxxa: getting to know how EventEmitter works is a good step as well
[09:55] kerx: what about performance comparisons?
[09:56] kerx: sorry for these weird questions, I'm just very curious
[09:56] deoxxa: it's not so much replacing the low level stuff as augmenting it; we've got a bunch of native code running as modules in node to do heavier processing or stuff we already had code for in c++
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[09:56] deoxxa: performance comparisons are kind of a hit and miss deal, they'll show different results depending on what you're testing
[09:57] deoxxa: i find it's easier to scale out node.js applications because it's simple to get them deployed and running for the most part
[09:57] deoxxa: whereas with a native application, you've got dependencies and stuff to worry about
[09:57] kerx: not looking for a exact answer, and not trying to make this a huge deal, but let's just say sockets in Perl vs. sockets in node would be?
[09:57] deoxxa: node would win by a long shot, i'd say
[09:58] deoxxa: but it's not really directly comparable
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[09:58] kerx: ok, i get the idea
[09:59] kerx: deoxxa, what are the limitations that node has that you haven't ported everything in C++ ?
[09:59] deoxxa: well, anything involving a lot of bit-twiddling is awkward in javascript
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[10:00] deoxxa: and cpu-bound code is just better suited to being kept native
[10:00] kerx: oh, wow, i get the picture :)
[10:00] kerx: awesome
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[10:00] kerx: i've been looking to learn a new dynamic language
[10:00] deoxxa: i like to think of node (for my uses) as an awesome framework for tying together different components
[10:01] kerx: considering erlang recently
[10:01] kerx: but node just caught my attention
[10:01] kerx: i read an article about Mozrepl, and someone mentioned nodejs
[10:01] deoxxa: erlang is definitely cool, but there's a pretty high barrier of entry unless you're familiar with a message passing language already
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[10:02] kerx: would nodejs be comparable to erlang in the sense of it's scalability features?
[10:02] kerx: the OTP framework is what I'm referring to (i believe)
[10:02] kerx: the languages syntax kind of scares me away
[10:02] deoxxa: well, node doesn't really have any features to do that on its own
[10:02] kerx: it's very Lisp-ish, which I've always been scared of
[10:02] deoxxa: but it does encourage you to write your code in a way that makes it easy to do
[10:03] deoxxa: so most node.js code out there lends itself well to clustering
[10:03] kerx: ok, i think it's best i get node running on my vps, and play around with it
[10:03] kerx: any specific projects you would recommend (non web based stuff)
[10:03] kerx: node-smtp is one i'm looking at now
[10:04] kerx: any others?
[10:04] deoxxa: hmm, let's think...
[10:05] deoxxa: https://github.com/nornagon/nodecraft << i always wanted this to go a bit further
[10:06] kerx: awesome, gaming involved
[10:06] kerx: thanks
[10:06] kerx: thanks
[10:06] kerx: wups, sorry, up key
[10:06] deoxxa: heh
[10:06] kerx: double thanks :)
[10:07] kerx: this is great, it's much more involved than node-smtp
[10:07] deoxxa: https://github.com/deoxxa/BlackStone << possibly a better example, same concept
[10:07] deoxxa: erm
[10:07] deoxxa: https://github.com/kurokikaze/BlackStone
[10:08] deoxxa: click fork -> copy url -> oops
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[10:08] kerx: second one or first?
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[10:08] deoxxa: second one
[10:08] deoxxa: first one is my fork of it, which i just created :P
[10:09] kerx: ti ruski?
[10:10] deoxxa: suman, wakannai :D
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[10:10] kerx: lol
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[11:00] OneOfOne:  how does nodejs "pre-compile" it's native javascript modules?
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[11:04] TheJH: OneOfOne, are you talking about those written in javascript or those written in C++?
[11:05] OneOfOne: TheJH: javascript, https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/lib/console.js for example
[11:05] TheJH: OneOfOne, it just puts the plain javascript into the generated executable :D
[11:06] OneOfOne: TheJH: aaahhh
[11:06] TheJH: OneOfOne, you can grep for the javascript inside the executable :D
[11:07] OneOfOne: TheJH: lol i was hoping it was something complicated and awesome
[11:07] TheJH: OneOfOne, me too some while back :D
[11:07] TheJH: OneOfOne, btw, the compilation of that js code at startup time takes a significant part of the time needed to start up node
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[11:09] TheJH: OneOfOne, https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/1538 - "Startup time: Uglify JS included in the node binary: 10% less time needed"
[11:09] OneOfOne: ha 
[11:11] TheJH: we need some kind of AST serialization :D
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[11:11] TheJH: but the node core devs also dont want to maintain own patches for v8
[11:11] OneOfOne: i think a compile time option would be pretty good
[11:12] TheJH: nah, makes it hard to trace back errors and really, uglifying isn't such a good idea
[11:12] TheJH: saving the ast would be so much better
[11:14] OneOfOne: yeah
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[11:35] TheJH: whoah, looks like node spends 30% of its startup time on compiling JS
[11:36] TheJH: and if I see this right, that time doesn't even include the time spent on lazy compiling afterwards
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[12:10] thomaschaaf: I installed node a while back on debian :/ but can't remember how (0.2.0) now I wanted to install it via aptitude but node -v still only gives me 0.2.0 and not 0.4.12
[12:12] TheJH: thomaschaaf, what does "whereis node" say?
[12:13] thomaschaaf: node: /usr/bin/node /usr/local/bin/node /usr/local/lib/node /usr/share/man/man1/node.1.gz 
[12:14] thomaschaaf: and /usr/bin/node -v is 0.4.12
[12:14] thomaschaaf: and /usr/local/bin/node is 0.2.0
[12:16] TheJH: thomaschaaf, so, you have /usr/local/bin/node because you compiled it from source and /usr/bin/node because you installed the package. Either run "make uninstall" in the source folder or uninstall the package and reinstall from source
[12:18] thomaschaaf: so I have to download 0.2.0 again and then make uninstall?
[12:19] TheJH: thomaschaaf, should work, I think
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[12:19] thomaschaaf: worked :)
[12:19] thomaschaaf: thanks
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[12:41] maushu: Hmm, ctrl+c stopped working on windows.
[12:43] jbpros has joined the channel
[12:45] maushu: Nevermind, 0.5.9 works.
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[12:50] OneOfOne: just tried webstorm with nodejs, it's freaking awesome
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[12:54] Brandon_R: hi
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[12:58] lmatteis: hey guys
[12:58] lmatteis: is there schedule for nodeup?
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[13:04] Brandon_R: hey
[13:04] Brandon_R: which has better apps
[13:04] Brandon_R: ios or droid
[13:06] TomY: is anyone able to tell me why http://search.npmjs.org/#/promised-io says that the latest version of that library is 0.2.1, but when I npm install promised-io I get 0.2.3?
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[13:13] Brandon_R: maybe the cache didn't update yet
[13:14] TomY: for the site?
[13:14] TomY: also says 0.2.1 here: http://isaacs.couchone.com/registry/promised-io
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[13:19] TomY: i wonder if it's because that document says that the location is http://github.com/kriszyp/promised-io/zipball/master
[13:19] TomY: (which is at 0.2.3)
[13:20] TomY: ..but I would have thought that would change after each commit :-(
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[13:26] OneOfOne: blah because of the way connect works, webstorm can't support autocompletion for it nor express-connect classes
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[13:30] Brandon_R: The world was changed by 3 apples, can anyone name them?
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[13:32] TheJH: is there a library that can analyze audio files?
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[13:35] Brandon_R: hey
[13:35] Brandon_R: what are you looking for
[13:35] Brandon_R: text to speech or just analysis
[13:35] Brandon_R: like change volume etc
[13:37] TheJH: Brandon_R, I'd like to be able to see when events happen (sound patterns are visible) and so on
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[13:39] japj: TheJH: are you talking about the browser side html5 audio data api?
[13:39] japj: TheJH: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Audio_Data_API
[13:39] TheJH: japj, no, server side. And I want to analyze the actual audio data. E.g. when there's a noise, I want to see that the volume went up and when and how many oscillations happened and how high the frquency is
[13:40] TheJH: japj, I want to do it in a console application
[13:40] japj: TheJH: so you want to record audio from a connected microphone and analyse it?
[13:40] deoxxa: TheJH: PCM is pretty simple, if you can get your audio in that format
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[13:41] deoxxa: perhaps by piping it through faad or ffmpeg first?
[13:41] deoxxa: or what was the other one... socks? sock? something like that
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[13:42] TheJH: japj, it doesn't have to be realtime, operating on existing fils is fine
[13:43] TheJH: ok, ffmpeg... I'll see what the PCM format looks like
[13:44] deoxxa: PCM is pretty much just bytes, no compression or anything
[13:44] simenbrekken has joined the channel
[13:44] TheJH: :)
[13:46] hkjels: Can I prevent the output from console programatically? Hijack std(out|err) I guess
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[13:46] hkjels: It's some output that I do not want displayed on my tests
[13:47] hkjels: I could check if it's a test and just not call console, but that's kind of dirty
[13:48] japj: hkjels: maybe it's usefull to use a logging library that can be turned off in testing mode? or overwrite console.log or something ;)
[13:50] hkjels: off course. I could just overwrite console.log.  Haven't quite adapted to this way of thinking
[13:50] hkjels: awesome
[13:50] hkjels: thank you
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[13:51] Brandon_R: hey guys
[13:51] hkjels: crap. Expresso uses console
[13:51] hkjels: hehe
[13:52] Brandon_R: lol
[13:52] Brandon_R: what's that
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[14:28] Sembiance: so many node.js date/time modules. anyone have a favorite?
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[14:29] maushu: Date
[14:29] maushu: :p
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[14:40] japj: anyone here using vows on windows with node 0.5.x?
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[15:28] kenperkins: morning from Mr Kleen & Lube ;)
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[15:48] Tprice: does anyone know of a http://zombie.labnotes.org/ like lib?
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[15:51] Tprice: ?
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[16:20] Tprice: does anyone know of a http://zombie.labnotes.org/ like lib?
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[16:21] joshkehn: Other then that one?
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[16:23] Tprice: yeah
[16:23] joshkehn: No
[16:23] Tprice: looking for something that deals with session managment
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[16:24] Tprice: so i can keep logged in
[16:24] dthompso99 has joined the channel
[16:24] DeltachaosDeskto: a question?
[16:24] DeltachaosDeskto: which ide are you using?
[16:24] DeltachaosDeskto: and please not netbeans, eclipse ore any other java based ide
[16:24] Tprice: apatana lol
[16:25] DeltachaosDeskto: hmm is java based
[16:25] Tprice: yeah its eclipse
[16:25] DeltachaosDeskto: my problem is that all java based ides eats my ram :D
[16:25] Dmitrijus: DeltachaosDeskto: vim?
[16:25] DeltachaosDeskto: :D
[16:25] Tprice: cloud9 might work
[16:26] Tprice: runs on node so low memory
[16:26] DeltachaosDeskto: i want a ide which itegrates into my desktop environment
[16:26] FMJaggy has joined the channel
[16:26] bnoordhuis: i want a pony!
[16:26] DeltachaosDeskto: qtcreator is nice :D but i think it dose not support raw javascript projekts
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[16:28] japj: bnoordhuis:  http://djangopony.com/ ? :)
[16:29] CIA-48: node: 03koichik 07 * r68cc173 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
[16:29] CIA-48: node: tls: The TLS API is inconsistent with the TCP API
[16:29] CIA-48: node: Add 'secureConnect' event to tls.CleartextStream.
[16:29] CIA-48: node: Fixes #1467. - http://git.io/AVUaDg
[16:29] CIA-48: node: 03koichik 07 * r86a67f1 10/ doc/api/tls.markdown : docs: add example of tls - http://git.io/Hes4Dg
[16:29] bnoordhuis: japj: that looks sweet
[16:29] bnoordhuis: pink is my favouritest colour
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[16:29] DeltachaosDeskto: :D
[16:30] japj: how fortunate ;)
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[16:39] CIA-48: node: 03koichik 07 * rd6191f5 10/ (lib/net.js test/simple/test-net-listen-error.js): 
[16:39] CIA-48: node: net: fix error handling in listen()
[16:39] CIA-48: node: Fixes #1894. - http://git.io/LAtGug
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[16:42] franck34: hi
[16:42] franck34: i'm using 0.4.11
[16:42] franck34: i'm trying to handle a POST request using application/octet-stream content type
[16:42] franck34: i'm trying to write every received chunk into a file
[16:43] franck34: and i have a problem. Sometimes, i receive all data
[16:43] franck34: sometime not, file corrupted, not the same size
[16:43] franck34: i'm using req.pipe(ws) where ws is a writeable stream
[16:43] franck34: have an idea ?
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[16:47] franck34: no error (got error handler on req and writeable stream)
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[17:11] robertj: are there any libraries to match an ip against a hostmask?
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[17:41] robertstuttaford: this is probably super obvious to everyone, but why is my webservice.js node module based json response not loading into my xhr in firefox? when i hit the url directly with firefox it's ok
[17:41] robertstuttaford: but in firebug in the xhr, it doesn't show up
[17:41] robertstuttaford: i suspect it's something to do with transfer-encoding: chunked but i'm not sure how to proceed
[17:42] robertstuttaford: also i am monitoring traffic with Charles and it shows the xhr's response coming back just fine
[17:42] hotch has joined the channel
[17:43] robertstuttaford: the xhr's done handler def doesn't fire because the breakpoint i have set never triggers 
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[17:44] mmalecki:  
[17:44] mmalecki: gah
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[17:44] mmalecki: do we already have a beer bot?
[17:45] mmalecki: mmalecki++
[17:45] v8bot_: mmalecki: Don't cheat!  You can't give a beer to yourself.
[17:45] mmalecki: ah, good
[17:45] mmalecki: I wrote a kohai plugin for it, just in case anyone was interested
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[17:46] cainus: hey all... anyone know of an express/connect middleware that will populate the request object with the raw request body?
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[17:47] cainus: bodyParser only knows json and form-url-encoded
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[17:57] japj: mmalecki: just a quick check, with node 0.5.x on windows, are you able to run "vows test/*.js" for a random project? (the *.js doesn't seem to work for me and results in an error, running single tests works ok though)
[17:58] AvianFlu: japj: there are a few windows fixes that still need landing there, it was only linux tested at first
[17:58] mmalecki: japj: good point, I'm working on using path.join instead of '/' through whole vows
[17:58] mmalecki: japj: thanks for the heads up! :)
[17:59] ryanmcgrath has joined the channel
[17:59] japj: mmalecki: np, thanks for working on node on windows support in vows ;)
[17:59] mmalecki: 
ACTION boots up windows

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[18:01] mmalecki: oh... there will be a problem with --supress-stdout
[18:01] mmalecki: we open /dev/null stream
[18:02] mmalecki: japj: and actually, I think I know what's up
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[18:02] mmalecki: japj: in Linux shell resolves * symbol
[18:02] japj: ah
[18:02] mmalecki: so when you echo *, you get list of all files
[18:02] japj: that makes sense
[18:03] mmalecki: japj: sure, it can be fixed
[18:03] mikola has joined the channel
[18:03] japj: I was looking at the vows code to find out where the resolving of *.js was being done, but I couldnt find it
[18:03] mikola: hello
[18:03] AvianFlu: yeah, that's bash
[18:03] mikola: anyone got a moment to take a look at this silly game I've been writing in node?
[18:03] mikola: http://mmotest.nodester.com
[18:03] AvianFlu: of course! everybody does
[18:03] mikola: using webgl
[18:04] mikola: so basically chrome/firefox only right now
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[18:04] AvianFlu: yeah, webgl doesn't run in my linux chrome
[18:04] AvianFlu: not just yours, anyone's
[18:04] AvianFlu: :(
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[18:04] mikola: you should add --ignore-gpu-blacklist
[18:04] mikola: I am running linux too, and it works just fine
[18:04] mikola: but you need that command
[18:04] AvianFlu: interestig
[18:04] mikola: also it works in chromium
[18:05] Iszak has joined the channel
[18:05] mikola: what video card do you have?
[18:05] mikola: also webgt works fine in firefox 6 on linux
[18:05] mikola: *webgl
[18:05] mmalecki: mikola: your one doesn't work for me, other opengl demos work fine, thoug
[18:05] infynyxx has joined the channel
[18:05] mmalecki: AvianFlu: and try dev version
[18:05] mikola: hmm
[18:05] Iszak: Do people pass a parameter to determine whether the app is running in dev or staging or production?
[18:05] Iszak: kind of like RailsEnv
[18:05] mmalecki: mikola: or wait
[18:05] mikola: mmalecki which browser/os are you using?
[18:06] Iszak: mikola, link to your webgl demo?
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[18:06] mikola: http://mmotest.nodester.com
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[18:06] mikola: basically a little minecraft style 3rd person game
[18:06] mikola: you can place blocks and jump around stuff
[18:06] Iszak: so how do people add conditions for dev/production/staging on node.js?
[18:07] Iszak: mikola, does it use three.js?
[18:07] mafintosh has joined the channel
[18:07] Iszak: taking ages to load.
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[18:08] Iszak: is NODE_ENV the standard method?
[18:08] mikola2: iszak: No, it uses regular vanilla webgl
[18:08] mikola2: no three.js or any of that stuff
[18:09] franck34: does somebody got a working poc to handle application/octet-stream file upload client -> node correctly ?
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[18:09] mikola3: ack, my connection here is pretty bad
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[18:09] franck34: i've tried req.pipe into a writeable stream, but it's not stable, uploaded file got randomly different sizes
[18:10] franck34: using 0.4.12
[18:10] Iszak: mikola3, it's not even loading...
[18:10] dgathright has joined the channel
[18:10] mikola3: anyway, if you get a chance try it out:  http://mmotest.nodester.com
[18:10] mikola3: hmm
[18:10] mikola3: could be that nodester is down...
[18:10] mmalecki: mikola: why not nodejitsu?
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[18:10] Iszak: nah if it was down it'd die immediately but it's loading but hanging
[18:10] mikola3: now I can't connect to it either...
[18:10] mikola3: mmalecki:  got a free coupon
[18:11] mmalecki: AvianFlu: when was our last downtime, btw?
[18:11] Iszak: why not heroku?
[18:11] mmalecki: mikola3: nodejitsu is free as well
[18:11] AvianFlu: downtime?
[18:11] mikola3: ok, I will take a look
[18:11] mmalecki: disclaimer: I work for nodejitsu
[18:11] AvianFlu: what is this downtime you speak of?
[18:11] franck34: or, do you know any alternative of "formidable" but working with application/octet-stream file upload ?
[18:11] mikola3: hahaha, ok
[18:11] AvianFlu: our biggest issue was having apps refuse to go down
[18:11] AvianFlu: (fixed now though)
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[18:12] mikola3: well, this is a hobby project so I'm not exactly super concerned about uptime at the moment
[18:12] mikola3: nor am I willing to pay much money to support it
[18:12] mikola3: but it is nice to be able to share demos on irc and so on
[18:12] AvianFlu: use whatever works for you, it's cool
[18:12] AvianFlu: mmalecki is just enthusiastic
[18:12] mikola3: I may try out nodejitsu though
[18:12] AvianFlu: and I mean, we *do* have an awesome service
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[18:13] mikola3: is there a free trial version?
[18:13] Iszak: mikola3, I want to try D: get it up!
[18:13] mmalecki: yeah, it's not like you have to use it, it's just that I find it super cool for my app :)
[18:13] mikola3: ok!  I will try restarting it
[18:13] mikola3: Iszak:  Ok, restarted it and it seems to be working
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[18:14] Ax1: anyone able to install express using npm on a mac?
[18:14] Ax1: I'm getting:
[18:14] Ax1: npm ERR! install failed Error: Required package: connect(1.7.x) not found. (Found: ["1.7.1","active"])
[18:14] Ax1: even through connect 1.7.1 is installed
[18:14] mikola3: give it another try:  http://mmotest.nodester.com
[18:14] aconbere has joined the channel
[18:14] cafesofie: Ax1: just installed it
[18:15] Iszak: mikola3, white screen of death D:
[18:15] Iszak: oh wait nvm
[18:15] Iszak: you need loading indicators
[18:15] mikola3: Iszak:  Yeah
[18:15] mikola3: Well, this is only 2 weekends worth of work so far :P
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[18:15] mikola3: mmalecki:  Ok, I put in a request for a coupon on nodejitsu
[18:15] Iszak: mikola3, why'd you for go using three.js?
[18:15] Ax1: cafesofie: cheers - must be a prob here
[18:15] mikola3: no, there is no three.js
[18:16] mikola3: it is just webgl
[18:16] Iszak: I know, why did you choose not to use three.js is what I'm asking
[18:16] mikola3: what is the point of using it?
[18:16] Iszak: easier interface for working with webgl
[18:16] mikola3: I don't see much advantage over just calling webgl directly...
[18:16] mikola3: not really...
[18:17] mikola3: unless you don't want shaders or anything like that
[18:17] Iszak: well it must have a purpose..
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[18:17] Iszak: can't test your game, keeps losing connection.
[18:17] mikola3: iszak:  I think it is for people who want canvas/webgl interoperability
[18:17] mikola3: hmm
[18:18] mikola3: iszak:  I think it is a problem with nodester...
[18:18] mikola3: maybe one last try?
[18:18] mikola3: or I could be doing something stupid on the server side...  not sure
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[18:19] Iszak: mikola3, it's calling /socket.io/1/xhr-polling is that to say it's not using web sockets but xhr?
[18:19] mikola3: yeah...
[18:20] mikola3: that is bad
[18:20] mikola3: not sure why that is happening...
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[18:20] Iszak: lolwhat? I'm using Chrome stable
[18:20] japj: mikola3: I am logged in
[18:20] mikola3: but I've been seeing that a lot in the logs and not sure what the cause could be...
[18:20] Iszak: mikoScript error (http://mmotest.nodester.com/browserify.js:1) -- Uncaught Error: Lost connection to network
[18:20] mikola3: It should be using websocket as the default transport, not sure why it is using xhr polling...
[18:21] Iszak: people do realise that web sockets are a changing API?
[18:21] japj: mikola3: when I move around it resets me to my starting position after a couple of seconds
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[18:21] mikola3: japj that is a connection problem
[18:21] mikola3: if you lag too much it does some position correction
[18:21] mikola3: but only if your round trip ping is >600ms
[18:21] japj: mikola3: and the application has crashed
[18:21] mikola3: probably due to it using xhr polling...
[18:21] Iszak: mikola3, xhr => unplayable, websockets => awesome (FF stable)
[18:21] japj: mikola3: lost connection to network
[18:21] Iszak: yeah just got that
[18:22] mikola3: yeah, same here
[18:22] mikola3: hmm
[18:22] mikola3: for some reason it keeps using xhr polling..  not sure why though
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[18:22] Iszak: but from what I saw, some cool stuff.
[18:22] mikola3: I got the latest stable version of socket.io on there too...
[18:22] mikola3: well, I will try to see if I can fix it
[18:22] Iszak: mikola3, maybe the npm package is out of date?
[18:23] mikola3: maybe
[18:23] Iszak: use git instead?
[18:23] mikola3: yeah...
[18:23] mikola3: though configuring that on nodester is a pain in the a**
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[18:23] Iszak: go with heroku then..
[18:23] Iszak: package.json bam done
[18:25] mikola3: probably some good sense to that...
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[18:25] mikola3: let me try removing all the transports but websockets
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[18:25] mikola3: and see if that helps things
[18:26] AvianFlu: no websockets on heroku, though, FYI
[18:26] mikola3: seriously?
[18:26] mikola3: that's a major bummer
[18:26] Iszak: AvianFlu, none sense!
[18:26] Iszak: nonsense rather
[18:27] mikola3: http://mmotest.nodester.com
[18:27] mikola3: ok, try it now
[18:27] Iszak: AvianFlu, where did you hear that?
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[18:27] mikola3: websocket transport only now, so if you can't connect it will just error out right away
[18:28] mikola3: any success?
[18:28] AvianFlu: Iszak, I've heard it from a number of their users
[18:28] AvianFlu: I was told their scaling infrastructure can't support websockets at present
[18:29] mikola3: AvianFlu: That's awful...
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[18:29] AvianFlu: dealing with the upgrade event properly is non-trivial
[18:29] AvianFlu: and websockets are very recent
[18:29] AvianFlu: it's just how stuff works sometimes
[18:29] mmalecki: yes.
[18:29] mikola3: I almost don't see the point of using something like node.js if you don't have websockets...
[18:30] AvianFlu: It can serve HTML plenty well too (node I mean)
[18:30] AvianFlu: but yeah, websockets are awesome
[18:30] mikola3: of course I would expect that situation will improve over time
[18:30] AvianFlu: yeah, the spec is becoming more stable
[18:30] AvianFlu: down the road a little everyone and their mom will have websockets
[18:30] mikola3: yeah, but websockets are definitely the killer feature for node
[18:30] mikola3: dealing with them in any other web platform right now is such an absolute nightmare
[18:31] mikola3: Iszak:  Did you get a chance to try out the new version?  I took out the xhr transport so it should use only websockets
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[18:33] mikola3: is there an up-to-date list of all the transports that socket.io supports?
[18:35] AvianFlu: in their docs probably, there are a bunch of transports
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[18:35] AvianFlu: ws, flash, jsonp, xhr short poll, xhr long poll, and I know I'm missing a few
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[18:38] mikola3: hmm
[18:38] mikola3: Iszak:  Were you able to connect when I turned off xhr-polling?
[18:38] mmalecki: oh shit, I have a bad feelings
[18:38] mmalecki: git on windows registers submodules under %PATH%
[18:39] mmalecki: though it kinda works
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[18:40] AvianFlu: windows sucks, sucks, sucks, sucks, sucks
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[18:42] mmalecki: AvianFlu: how did you install npm?
[18:42] caolanm has joined the channel
[18:42] mmalecki: it yells at me about lru-cache -.-
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[18:44] mmalecki: k, cloned it into node_modules
[18:45] mmalecki: fuck man, git is so slow here
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[18:47] AvianFlu: I followed the instructions
[18:47] AvianFlu: it took a number of steps but I was cool
[18:47] AvianFlu: I also installed all the git-bash stuff
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[18:53] diogogmt: I'm trying to isntall npm on ubuntu
[18:53] diogogmt: I've tried using curl and make
[18:53] diogogmt: but both times it didn';t work
[18:53] diogogmt: I get this message
[18:53] diogogmt: bash: /usr/bin/npm: No such file or directory
[18:53] diogogmt:  
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[18:54] diogogmt: anybody knows why?
[18:55] TheJH: diogogmt, could you gist a log of how you're doing it with curl?
[18:55] TheJH: diogogmt, I want to see what you enetered and what it responded with
[18:57] diogogmt: http://pastebin.com/zSmJHSgp
[19:00] elliottcable: bnoordhuis › do you know if isaacs still wanted something from me before y’all can merge in my pureq?
[19:00] elliottcable: bnoordhuis › I’d made the changes to the 0.5-compatible subset he wanted
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[19:03] mmalecki: AvianFlu: doesn't work for me. I get couldn't unpack errors from bundled tar
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[19:08] AvianFlu: that's odd
[19:08] AvianFlu: what windows?
[19:08] mmalecki: Windows 7
[19:09] AvianFlu: yeah, I was using my lulzed vista partition
[19:09] AvianFlu: are you in a vm or on real windows
[19:09] mmalecki: real
[19:09] diogogmt: TheJH: I think I found the problem
[19:09] diogogmt: The linking wasn;t right
[19:09] diogogmt: I create d alink for /usr/bin/npm
[19:09] diogogmt: instead of /usr/local/bin/npm
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[19:12] AvianFlu: I'm not sure mmalecki, I was also using npm 1.0.96
[19:13] mmalecki: I've tried on master, 1.0.99 and 1.0.98
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[19:14] aeo: After reading this: https://github.com/mikeal/request
[19:14] aeo: I still have no idea how to do a POST request. :/
[19:14] aeo: Do any of you know?
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[19:15] mmalecki: the same on 1.0.96
[19:15] mmalecki: fuck it, I don't need it
[19:15] mmalecki: brb
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[19:26] mikeal: request.post(url)
[19:26] mikeal: :)
[19:26] mikeal: request.post({url:url, body:string})
[19:26] mikeal: or
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[19:27] mikeal: fs.createReadStream.pipe(request.post(url))
[19:27] arcanis: is there a strerror/perror equivalent in node.js ?
[19:28] aeo: Say I want to make a post requeset with a=1 and b=2
[19:29] aeo: I guess I can do that with request.post({url:rul, body:"a=1&b=2"}) ?
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[19:35] aroman: hi, how should I serve static files with node?
[19:35] aroman: inb4 I shouldn't :P
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[19:35] TheJH: diogogmt, does it work now?
[19:35] aeo: aroman: http module
[19:36] TheJH: diogogmt, if it doesn't, do `curl http://npmjs.org/install.sh | sudo sh`, that should fix it
[19:36] aeo: aroman: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.5.9/api/net.html#net.createServer
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[19:37] TheJH: aroman, there are several modules for that on npm
[19:37] TheJH: aroman, it's easy to get stuff wrong (especially security stuff), therefore you should use an existing one
[19:37] TheJH: !npm search http static
[19:37] jhbot: packages (short format): http-proxy-selective, node-static-maccman, quickserve, node-static, EventServer, public, statify
[19:37] TheJH: !npm info node-static
[19:37] jhbot: node-static by Alexis Sellier, version 0.5.9: simple, compliant file streaming module for node
[19:37] aroman: TheJH: that's what I figured
[19:37] aroman: TheJH: you'd reccommend node-static?
[19:38] TheJH: aroman, let me check
[19:39] AvianFlu: aroman, you might look at http-server too, it's a simplified wrapper around our vendored fork of node-static
[19:39] gregmoreno has joined the channel
[19:39] AvianFlu: (cloudhead is off writing erlang instead of maintaining his node projects, apparently)
[19:40] aroman: well, the thing is I'm also using socketIO
[19:40] TheJH: AvianFlu, where is that fork?
[19:40] aroman: so it's not like I want purely a static file server.
[19:41] AvianFlu: http-server returns its http server object, which I think you can just pass into io.listen or whatever
[19:41] AvianFlu: unless I'm confused and that was 0.6.x socket.io
[19:41] AvianFlu: not returns, persists
[19:41] AvianFlu: it's this.httpServer once you have the object
[19:41] TheJH: AvianFlu, link?
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[19:42] AvianFlu: TheJH, I think it's just vendored, I don't know if we have the node-static fork anywhere
[19:42] AvianFlu: !npm info http-server
[19:42] jhbot: http-server by Marak Squires, version 0.2.5: a simple zero-configuration command-line http server
[19:42] TheJH: AvianFlu, ah, bundled, ok
[19:42] AvianFlu: bundled. yes.
[19:43] TheJH: aroman, I think node-static is ok
[19:44] aroman: TheJH: alright, I'll have a look at that, thanks
[19:44] TheJH: AvianFlu, when you maintain a bundled fork of something, you should also port the bugfixes :D
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[19:46] diogogmt: TheJH: I'm getting really frustated, I'm trying to isntall node npm and mongoose. But I can't find a good tutorial to isntall all thre of them
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[19:46] diogogmt: Sometimes one install, but it doesn;t works with the others
[19:46] diogogmt: right now I have node and npm install
[19:46] diogogmt: but I can;t install express
[19:46] AvianFlu: TheJH, we're gonna re-write that I think
[19:46] diogogmt: do you know a good tutorial?
[19:46] TheJH: AvianFlu, https://github.com/cloudhead/node-static/commit/c49e37262c5e999f588d57343405d09e8d602c81 and https://github.com/cloudhead/node-static/commit/09788551b5ece0380f3439a69519c577ebd002aa
[19:46] schwab: what langauges does node.js support
[19:46] TheJH: diogogmt, you can install express on node v0.5.x
[19:47] TheJH: diogogmt, err, I mean "can't"
[19:47] AvianFlu: do you see the comment on that first commit? it was a bad commit
[19:47] diogogmt: ohh....
[19:47] diogogmt: thats the problem then
[19:47] TheJH: schwab, javascript. but you can use everything that compiled to javascript, too
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[19:47] TheJH: AvianFlu, yes, and the second one I linked fixed that, I think
[19:47] diogogmt: if I just checkout to antoher node branch would fix it? Or do I ened to resintall?
[19:47] schwab: ok...
[19:47] TheJH: AvianFlu, anyway, you seem to still have the RegExp one
[19:48] schwab: so node.js is pure client side programming?!
[19:48] schwab: or do you code js on the server somehow?
[19:48] AvianFlu: schwab, no, server
[19:48] TheJH: AvianFlu, and the RegExp one might cause security issues
[19:48] AvianFlu: I'll look at it TheJH, thanks
[19:48] TheJH: diogogmt, "checkout 0.4.12; ./configure&&make&&make install"
[19:48] Shoeb has joined the channel
[19:48] Shoeb: Hi,
[19:49] AvianFlu: schwab, it's javascript that runs in google's v8 VM on top of an async i/o platform called libuv, and we do lots of server-side things with it
[19:49] schwab: o wow
[19:49] Shoeb: I need some help regarding node. I am a newbee and everything is messed up. its not installing jade. 
[19:49] schwab: so dart could replace it
[19:50] AvianFlu: dart may or may not amount to anything yet
[19:50] AvianFlu: and dart won't run in v8, it will have its own vm
[19:50] chjj: node.dart - whos with me?!
[19:50] Shoeb: I need some help regarding node. I am a newbee and everything is messed up. its not installing jade.
[19:50] AvianFlu: but down the road, if someone wanted to, sure
[19:50] cafesofie: chjj: it's called java :P
[19:50] chjj: cafesofie: oh i see what you did there
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[19:51] Nuck: What's the extension for dart files?
[19:52] cafesofie: dart
[19:52] chjj: 
ACTION is waiting for someone to say something insulting to dart.

[19:52] TheJH: Shoeb, could you be more specific?
[19:52] chjj: i hope its not .dart, im going to use my own extension if thats the case
[19:52] cafesofie: it is .darrt
[19:52] chjj: assuming ill even use dart
[19:52] cafesofie: -r
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[19:53] TheJH: !remember dart DART IS STUPID. DART IS EVIL. WE DONT LIKE DART. DART IS LIKE JAVA WITH A LITTLE BIT OF VISUAL BASIC. NOBODY LIKES DART. NOT EVEN WINDOWS BATCH WOULD MARRY IT.
[19:53] jhbot: that value starts with a non-alphanumeric character, I don't want to store bot commands
[19:54] TheJH: !remember dart DART IS STUPID. DART IS EVIL. WE DONT LIKE DART. DART IS LIKE JAVA WITH A LITTLE BIT OF VISUAL BASIC. NOBODY LIKES DART. NOT EVEN WINDOWS BATCH WOULD MARRY IT.
[19:54] jhbot: saved definition of 'dart'
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[19:54] chjj: you got your java in my web
[19:55] xerox: TheJH is full of anger
[19:55] cafesofie: the hate for dart is pretty funny
[19:56] mikolalysenko: I don't even know why google is bothering with dart, it just seems like a waste of effort to me
[19:56] mikolalysenko: why not just build a vm instead?
[19:56] chjj: why not make a language not inspired by java?
[19:56] cafesofie: eich has talked a lot about how a vm wouldn't solve much
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[19:56] mikolalysenko: eich is full of crap on this point imo
[19:57] mikolalysenko: I've seen his arguments and I just don't buy it
[19:57] mikolalysenko: all of the stuff he says applies equally well to dart
[19:57] chjj: i assumed that a long time ago when i heard he liked coffeescript
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[19:57] cafesofie: not that eich likes dart
[19:57] strgzr: gidday
[19:57] mikolalysenko: mainly just that it will be a nightmare to fix the standardization problems posed by a new web language/vm etc.
[19:57] Nuck: Honestly, I like the way Dart expresses certain things, but their compiler is shit, and the language itself I hear is shitty on a deeper level
[19:58] strgzr: I'm brand new. Is there a text editor in Node?
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[19:58] cafesofie: i don't think the complaint is that dart is a bad language so much that it's bland
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[19:59] AvianFlu: strgzr, use any editor you want
[19:59] mikolalysenko: I think the main complaint is that it doesn't really fix anything
[19:59] AvianFlu: there's even a good one on the internet, cloud 9 ide
[19:59] mikolalysenko: you basically swap out one slow, flawed scripting language for another
[19:59] cafesofie: i really wish mozilla would adopt pepper though
[19:59] mikolalysenko: you still have to do stupid crap like minify and obfuscate dart before you can transmit it
[19:59] strgzr: I put a javascript file in every location I could think of, but node can't find it
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[19:59] cafesofie: nacl seems like the best idea so far
[19:59] cafesofie: (pnacl anyway)
[19:59] mikolalysenko: yeah, but it has its own issues
[19:59] mikolalysenko: pnacl is good
[20:00] mikolalysenko: but it seems like they are pushing nacl instead (why?  I have no freaking clue...)
[20:00] cafesofie: mozilla has basically told google to go fuck themself over pepper though
[20:00] cafesofie: so i doubt it'll happen for some time
[20:00] mikolalysenko: sad
[20:00] Nuck: I think Dart was not different enough from JS to be worth a full compilation
[20:01] Nuck: Seriously, they did a heavy compiler when all they needed was something lightweight
[20:01] chjj: nacl strikes me as overambitious, and i say this as someone who loves google
[20:01] mikolalysenko: yeah, but pnacl on the other hand could work
[20:01] mikolalysenko: nacl doesn't seem to me like the right solution
[20:01] Nuck: Nacl strikes me as pointless and highly insecure
[20:01] mikolalysenko: it just lacks enough portability and security to be a sensible solution
[20:01] Nuck: Scripting is the way of the world
[20:01] Nuck: Online, that is
[20:01] mikolalysenko: plus, you have to compile/transmit a code object for each ISA you want to support (wtf?)
[20:02] Nuck: Even our servers are scripting languages and have been for a long time
[20:02] mikolalysenko: it is just like an OS X fat binary
[20:02] cafesofie: really i'm just depressed at the whole situation. people are clearly hacking around the entire web stack as best as they can but no one can agree on how to fix things
[20:02] chjj: it also seems kind of pointless, in 10-20 years, when our Vms are so absurdly fast due to hardware improvements, all the work to implement nacl might not have been worth it
[20:02] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Yeah, it'd be better set up like the JVM
[20:02] mikolalysenko: probably
[20:02] mikolalysenko: except the JVM has a terrible interface to the DOM
[20:02] Nuck: mikolalysenko: well duh
[20:02] mikolalysenko: and so applets are slow and broken crap
[20:02] Nuck: But I mean, with the two-step compiling
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[20:02] Nuck: You have it compiled to a system-independent language
[20:02] Nuck: Then you run that in a VM
[20:02] mikolalysenko: and sun ^h^h^h oracle is not gonna fix that any time soon
[20:02] cafesofie: even as js vms get faster we'll just want more and more, and it's already a shit ton of work to make them work the way they do now
[20:03] TheJH: cafesofie, NaCl? Isn't that a crypto library?
[20:03] TheJH: !nm info nacl
[20:03] mikolalysenko: I think vms can work
[20:03] TheJH: !npm info nacl
[20:03] jhbot: nacl by Jann Horn, version 0.1.1: Networking and Cryptography library bindings - high-speed, high-security, easy-to-use crypto library
[20:03] chjj: huh?
[20:03] Nuck: TheJH: haha
[20:03] mikolalysenko: look at the latest jvms, they approach native C performance in many cases
[20:03] chjj: oh
[20:03] cafesofie: i'm assuming you know what native client is and just want to point out an acronym collision
[20:03] mikolalysenko: a vm makes tons of sense here
[20:03] Nuck: TheJH: NaCl, the Native code language
[20:03] Nuck: Not what I assume is your library :P
[20:04] Nuck: JH = Jann Horn, I'm guessing :P
[20:04] TheJH: Nuck, NaCl, the Networking and Cryptography library. And my package is just a binding.
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[20:04] Nuck: TheJH: ah
[20:04] mikolalysenko: nacl is just active x with fat ELFs
[20:04] chjj: lol, TheJH, shameless advertising ;p
[20:04] Nuck: mikolalysenko: yeaaaaaaah
[20:04] mikolalysenko: it doesn't seem to me like a very good idea
[20:04] Nuck: It's ActiveX
[20:04] Nuck: From Google!
[20:04] cafesofie: activex with security
[20:04] mikolalysenko: pnacl on the other hand is a good idea
[20:04] cafesofie: it's not the same thing at all
[20:04] mikolalysenko: it is a jvm without java
[20:04] mikolalysenko: and a fast dom interface
[20:04] mikolalysenko: great!
[20:04] TheJH: 
ACTION goes on advertising for NaCl

[20:04] TheJH: http://nacl.cr.yp.to/
[20:05] mikolalysenko: but google seems to be less than enthusiastic about pushing it
[20:05] Nuck: I disagree.  I say that JS is the language of the web.  Get over it.
[20:05] mikolalysenko: nuck: today, but it doesn't have to be
[20:05] cafesofie: mikolalysenko: i don't know why you're drawing such a distinction between nacl and pnacl. pnacl just isn't as far developed
[20:05] Nuck: mikolalysenko: I like it this way
[20:05] cafesofie: mikolalysenko: it's not like they've forgotten about pnacl in favor of the other
[20:05] mikolalysenko: you could still do js in a vm
[20:05] stagas has joined the channel
[20:05] Nuck: I'm with Eich: Always bet on JavaScript.
[20:06] Kunda has joined the channel
[20:06] mikolalysenko: plus it could be much smaller
[20:06] Nuck: As the needs change, JS changes
[20:06] cafesofie: and the javascript stockholm syndrome is one of the more depressing things about the web today :P
[20:06] mikolalysenko: sending plaintext source code over a network is crazy
[20:06] mikolalysenko: sure, but that would be even easier to deal with in a vm
[20:06] Nuck: cafesofie: IT's not nearly as bad as people think
[20:06] mikolalysenko: want to upgrade js?
[20:06] mikolalysenko: don't worry about it!  Just update your compiler
[20:06] mikolalysenko: don't have to worry about broken clients with half assed implementations
[20:07] mikolalysenko: as long as they support a simple virtual isa, your code would just work
[20:07] Nuck: mikolalysenko: That's an awful idea
[20:07] mikolalysenko: why?
[20:07] Nuck: Then you hafta transfer the entire compiler
[20:07] Nuck: That's retarded
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[20:07] mikolalysenko: I bet it would still be smaller than sending a raw javascript file
[20:07] infynyxx has joined the channel
[20:07] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Not likely
[20:07] Nuck: JS files are *tiny*
[20:07] Ang3: o/
[20:07] mikolalysenko: you just encode and link the run time, it would be about on the order of a .o file
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[20:08] mikolalysenko: or a normal elf
[20:08] mikolalysenko: you just compile and link it, then send it
[20:08] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Seriously.  Transferring a full VM on each site?  I ought to slap you.
[20:08] mikolalysenko: that's not as big a deal as you would think
[20:08] mikolalysenko: a vm in machine code could be very small
[20:09] mikolalysenko: especially if you write it in a portable byte code
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[20:09] mikolalysenko: which is designed for space efficiency
[20:09] Nuck: You people are lunatics o_O
[20:09] Nuck: JS
[20:09] Nuck: Seriously.
[20:09] Nuck: JS > NaCl.
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[20:09] chjj: mikolalysenko is right though, vms can be very small
[20:09] Nuck: Sure, but it's ridiculous to transfer a VM with each request
[20:09] mikolalysenko: you wouldn't though
[20:09] mikolalysenko: you would cache it
[20:09] chjj: cache?
[20:10] mikolalysenko: just like any ordinary web page
[20:10] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Cool, with each new site I visit
[20:10] Nuck: I get another VM
[20:10] Nuck: And another
[20:10] Nuck: And another
[20:10] Nuck: And another
[20:10] Nuck: And another
[20:10] Nuck: And another
[20:10] mikolalysenko: it would be about the size of a small png
[20:10] Nuck: mikolalysenko: And probably not all that fast, and prone to errors
[20:10] mikolalysenko: you don't mind downloading images for each page you go to?
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[20:10] mikolalysenko: that's speculation
[20:10] Nuck: Getting web devs to update is harder than getting people to update Chrome
[20:10] chjj: Nuck: if it were hosted by google, like googles web fonts which are pretty big themselves, the users might already have it cached
[20:10] mikolalysenko: you can make it as fast and good as you want (up to and beyond what v8 is capable of)
[20:11] Nuck: chjj: We might as well just lodge it in the browser
[20:11] Nuck: The *smart* way
[20:11] Nuck: The *sane* way
[20:11] chjj: Nuck: then you could say the same about jquery, web fonts, etc
[20:11] mikolalysenko: except that updating that way is *insane*
[20:11] Nuck: Because then we don't get incompatible dialects
[20:11] mikolalysenko: what if you need to patch something in the vm?
[20:11] Nuck: Or splintering
[20:11] mikolalysenko: or a new version comes out and you want to use that?
[20:11] Nuck: We have enough splintering as it is
[20:11] chjj: i dont even know what were talking about anymore, or even what side im on, i just wanted to argue against nuck
[20:11] mikolalysenko: yeah, but with a vm you just update to whatever version you want
[20:11] Nuck: chjj: bahaha
[20:12] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Cool, and splinter
[20:12] mikolalysenko: and keep it that way
[20:12] mikolalysenko: then it will just work everywhere
[20:12] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Slowly various VMs will splinter into factions
[20:12] mikolalysenko: if you want a patch *you* get to do it, not the browser writer
[20:12] arcanis: do you know if there is a strerror/perror equivalent in node.js ?
[20:12] Nuck: And JS will be less interoperable
[20:12] mikolalysenko: Nuck: Just like C or Java?
[20:12] Nuck: mikolalysenko: No, worse
[20:12] Nuck: mikolalysenko: In this case, we can't reuse code from one splintered VM to another
[20:12] mikolalysenko: there is an ECMA standard, and it is easier for developers to upgrade than it is for users
[20:12] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Not anymore
[20:13] mikolalysenko: it is the same situation in every other programming language
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[20:13] Nuck: Both Firefox and Chrome are doing silent background updates now, IIRC
[20:13] Nuck: I think Firefox started in a recent Aurora
[20:13] mikolalysenko: gcc gets updated, but no one complains about it "splintering the language".  That argument is a total strawman.
[20:13] Nuck: MAybe into Beta now
[20:13] Nuck: mikolalysenko: No, because GCC is standard
[20:13] mikolalysenko: yeah, and so is javascript
[20:13] Nuck: Try using Windows-based C on Linux
[20:14] mikolalysenko: again a flawed argument...
[20:14] Nuck: Something written for Windows libraries will not compile well on GCC if at all
[20:14] mikolalysenko: yeah, but the point of using the vm is that you write for that one vm
[20:14] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Which is *very* bad.
[20:14] mikolalysenko: how?
[20:14] Nuck: Like, beyond bad, that's *horrible*
[20:14] mikolalysenko: why?
[20:15] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Because now you've got different dialects and can't copy code between them without some pain in your ass
[20:15] mikolalysenko: I'm saying that is unlikely to happen
[20:15] mikolalysenko: any more so than it does already today
[20:15] mikolalysenko: and across other languages
[20:15] Nuck: mikolalysenko: You just said "that you write for that one vm"
[20:15] mikolalysenko: yeah
[20:15] Nuck: That's exactly what that means
[20:15] mikolalysenko: you compile and link against a single standard ISA
[20:16] mikolalysenko: your tools can get updated and be built independent of that
[20:16] Nuck: Cool, and your code will not work on other VMs
[20:16] mikolalysenko: on the client side, it still just works
[20:16] mikolalysenko: no, the point is to make one standard vm
[20:16] Nuck: Because you did some weird mod to your VM
[20:16] mikolalysenko: you wouldn't do that
[20:16] mikolalysenko: the vm would be standard
[20:16] Nuck: Oh, and a modded VM won't be shared in caches
[20:16] Nuck: mikolalysenko: No, no it won't be.
[20:16] Nuck: People will modify it
[20:16] mikolalysenko: all browsers would implement and optimize the vm
[20:16] mikolalysenko: ok, you are confused here
[20:16] Nuck: mikolalysenko: All browsers would share a VM?
[20:16] mikolalysenko: 1.  I propose making a browser independent vm for scripting
[20:17] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Uh, no
[20:17] Nuck: That's bad
[20:17] Nuck: No diversity
[20:17] mikolalysenko: 2.  For javascript (or any other pl for that matter), just make your own tool on top of it
[20:17] Nuck: We like having about 3-5 JS engines
[20:17] mikolalysenko: just like the .net CLR/llvm/jvm/etc.
[20:17] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Sharing VM is bad
[20:17] mikolalysenko: ???
[20:17] Nuck: We need browsers to compete in ideas
[20:17] Nuck: It pushes the cool ideas forward
[20:17] mikolalysenko: Yeah, they still can
[20:17] mikolalysenko: they can offer apis and stuff
[20:17] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Not if they all share a VM
[20:18] mikolalysenko: but the vm would just be a boring old isa
[20:18] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Then there's nonstandard
[20:18] mikolalysenko: they could implement optimizations and stuff on top of that
[20:18] mikolalysenko: and they could add system calls and special hooks
[20:18] mikolalysenko: but the vm would be the same
[20:18] Nuck: I don't want them competing in features
[20:18] Nuck: I want them competing on efficiency, speed, improvements
[20:18] mikolalysenko: ???
[20:18] Nuck: One VM and that ain't happening
[20:18] mikolalysenko: right, but they can still do that in a vm style architecture
[20:18] Nuck: We'll be cemented in our ways
[20:18] mikolalysenko: you can work on optimizing byte code, not js
[20:19] Nuck: mikolalysenko: You know what?  You're a lost cause.  I give up.
[20:19] mikolalysenko: the former is an easier problem than the latter
[20:19] Nuck: 
ACTION shrugs and goes back to code

[20:19] mikolalysenko: ok, I just don't understand what the problem is
[20:19] Nuck: And I don't think you ever will
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[20:20] mikolalysenko: Look, I am open to trying to understand what you are talking about, but I don't see how fixing a standard browser VM ISA could possibly make the situation worse
[20:20] Brandon_R has joined the channel
[20:20] mikolalysenko: You could still make and optimize your javascript interpreters, like v8 or whatever
[20:21] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Because you're adamantly opposed to the concept that it will benefit everyone.  But just trust me, it won't.
[20:21] Brandon_R: hi Nuck
[20:21] Brandon_R: hi mikolalysenko
[20:21] mikolalysenko: what?
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[20:21] mikolalysenko: hi
[20:21] infynyxx has joined the channel
[20:21] Nuck: hi Brandon_R 
[20:21] Brandon_R: what you guys talkingabout?
[20:21] mikolalysenko: I don't accept "just trust me" as a valid argument
[20:21] Brandon_R: benefit who
[20:21] mikolalysenko: browser base vms instead of javascript
[20:21] Nuck: mikolalysenko: You don't accept a lot of things
[20:21] mikolalysenko: I am open to new ideas, and am willing to be persuaded
[20:22] mikolalysenko: but I am just not hearing anything very convincing other than bland assertions
[20:22] Brandon_R: that wounds awesome
[20:22] mikolalysenko: I think so!
[20:22] Brandon_R: browser based vms like java or erlang vm?
[20:22] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Why abstract another layer on top of JS, for one.  And a shared codebase among all browsers will *absolutely* never happen, mostly because it's bad.
[20:22] mikolalysenko: a browser based low level virtual machine could be really great!
[20:22] mikolalysenko: nuck: That's not what I'm saying
[20:22] Brandon_R: virtual machine for javascript and native graphics for css :)
[20:22] mmalecki: but wait, actually why?
[20:22] mikolalysenko: I'm saying that the VM would be different for each browser
[20:23] Brandon_R: and hardware acceleration for canvas
[20:23] Brandon_R: awesomeness
[20:23] chjj: yeah screw css, lets just use nacl to access opengl api directly
[20:23] mikolalysenko: the reason is that right now javascript is the browser vm, and it has problems
[20:23] Brandon_R: isn't that what dart is trying to solve
[20:23] Brandon_R: witht he dart vm
[20:23] Nuck: Brandon_R: I'm all for hardware-accelerated canvas
[20:23] mikolalysenko: kind of, but it fails
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[20:23] mikolalysenko: because dart is not really a vm language but rather a scripting replacement for javascript
[20:24] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Uh, JS has a lot fewer problems than people liek to claim
[20:24] Nuck: People diss on JS
[20:24] Nuck: A lot
[20:24] mikolalysenko: but it has some serious issues
[20:24] mikolalysenko: like lack of integers
[20:24] mikolalysenko: or arrays
[20:24] mmalecki: I THINK SOMEONE SAID DART.
[20:24] Nuck: Oh, it's not powerful enough.  Nope!
[20:24] mikolalysenko: or terrible scoping bugs
[20:24] Nuck: mikolalysenko: We have arrays, go learn JS, n00b.
[20:24] Nuck: Scoping isn't buggy, it's lexical
[20:24] mikolalysenko: they don't work like real arrays
[20:24] Brandon_R: i Said dart lol
[20:24] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Yup, they do
[20:24] dart: lol
[20:24] Nuck: mikolalysenko: You really don't understand JS, do you?
[20:24] mikolalysenko: no, you can do stuff like a = []; a['foo'] = 'bar';
[20:25] mikolalysenko: the arrays are all hash maps
[20:25] Nuck: mikolalysenko: And it becomes an Object
[20:25] chjj: dart is in here, lets kick his-- oh
[20:25] mikolalysenko: and lack of typing on the arrays means you pay a major memory overhead
[20:25] Nuck: mikolalysenko: That's because Arrays are simply other objects.  When you add a property to an array, you're actually dealing with the object part
[20:25] mikolalysenko: even if it just filled with pods
[20:25] mikolalysenko: yeah, and that is what I mean by arrays not being proper arrays
[20:25] Nuck: This is how *many* OO languages work
[20:26] mikolalysenko: real arrays in c, java, etc. are just plain old flat lists of memory
[20:26] Nuck: mikolalysenko: If you think that's bad, you shouldn't be doing OOP
[20:26] Nuck: C isn't OO
[20:26] mikolalysenko: this has a huge performance benefit, and not being able to use a flat memory model is a major drawback
[20:26] Brandon_R: c isn't object orented lol
[20:26] Brandon_R: ninjaed
[20:26] mikolalysenko: why does OO have anything to do with this?
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[20:26] mikolalysenko: I am talking about a missing, performance critical language features
[20:26] mikolalysenko: that just isn't there in JS
[20:26] Nuck: mikolalysenko: In a proper OO language, everything is an Object
[20:26] Brandon_R: This is how *many* OO languages work
[20:27] mikolalysenko: I don't care about it being proper OO or whatever, I just want fast code
[20:27] Nuck: So, yes, Arrays make sense as Objects
[20:27] mikolalysenko: and arrays as objects is a huge performance overhead
[20:27] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Hence why V8 optimizes Arrays into flat lists, last I checked
[20:27] Nuck: mikolalysenko: So moot point.
[20:27] mikolalysenko: *in some cases*
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[20:27] mikolalysenko: but it isn't perfect
[20:27] Nuck: mikolalysenko: In any case that doesn't use an Array as an Object
[20:27] mikolalysenko: and it finicky, and you can't really count on it.
[20:27] `3rdEden has joined the channel
[20:27] Nuck: Why?  Because NOBODY uses an Array as an Object
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[20:28] Nuck: For good reason!
[20:28] chjj: what the hell is going on
[20:28] Nuck: chjj: mikolalysenko is dissing on JS for invalid reasons.
[20:28] mikolalysenko: arguing pl stuff, always turns into a holy war...
[20:28] elliottcable: are path.exists and path.existsSync() leaving?
[20:28] Brandon_R: if you want fast use c
[20:28] mmalecki: hey, would you guys mind actually checking how this shit is implemented in v8?
[20:28] elliottcable: or more accurately, being moved to the fs module?
[20:28] elliottcable: it seems *really* odd for them to be in the path module.
[20:28] chjj: elliottcable: i think so, ive heard ry talk about it
[20:28] Nuck: elliottcable: Oh, moving to fs?  I hope so, that'd make more sense
[20:28] elliottcable: chjj › what did he say, do you remember?
[20:28] mikolalysenko: I'm going on what I've heard from google's talks on the subject
[20:28] Nuck: elliottcable: I never understood why they were in Path from the start
[20:29] elliottcable: well, convenience
[20:29] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Google fundamentally doesn't understand JS
[20:29] chjj: elliottcable: he just said it was a mistake to put them in the path module in the first place
[20:29] elliottcable: but if they *are* moving, I’m just not going to to touch them
[20:29] elliottcable:   < Nuck> mikolalysenko: Google fundamentally doesn't understand JS
[20:29] Nuck: elliottcable: haha
[20:29] elliottcable: ↑ that, a thousand times that
[20:29] mikolalysenko: Nuck:  what are you talking about?
[20:29] elliottcable: chjj › agreed 100)%.
[20:29] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Google does not understand JS.
[20:29] elliottcable: yeah, then I’m not touching them.
[20:29] elliottcable: I’ll stick to my fs.stat, tyvm
[20:29] mikolalysenko: understand JS?  They implement the spec, what else is there to understand?
[20:29] elliottcable: mikolalysenko › lol.
[20:29] elliottcable: mikolalysenko › he doesn’t mean V8.
[20:29] Nuck: mikolalysenko: :I
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[20:29] mikolalysenko: they don't understand the philosophy?  what kind of fuzzy crap is that?
[20:29] Nuck: Yeah
[20:29] Nuck: V8 is fine
[20:30] elliottcable: mikolalysenko › … oh shut up.
[20:30] elliottcable: ಠ_ಠ mikolalysenko
[20:30] purr: Let it be known that elliottcable disapproves of mikolalysenko.
[20:30] Nuck: mikolalysenko: What elliottcable said.
[20:30] elliottcable: !stop
[20:30] Brandon_R: ryah
[20:30] Brandon_R: help
[20:30] Nuck: elliottcable: lol
[20:30] Brandon_R: people are fighting
[20:30] mikolalysenko: ok, enough of this
[20:30] Brandon_R: i'm scared
[20:30] elliottcable: lol @ Brandon_R
[20:31] elliottcable: I didn’t see any of the context; but calling it “fuzzy crap” to state that Google doesn’t remotely grok How To Do JS is objectively true.
[20:31] Nuck: If Google understood JS on a higher level than just "OOF LANGUAGE ME IMPLEMENT" they might have realized that Dart was a piece of shit nobody wanted.
[20:31] mikolalysenko: look, I don't think js is a bad language or anything, but I do believe that it is suboptimal from a performance perspective
[20:31] elliottcable: I mean, just look at the Closure compiler, or the absolutely horrid and disgusting piece of crap that is the GWT.
[20:31] Nuck: Google prefers Java over JS
[20:31] Nuck: elliottcable: I hate GWT
[20:31] elliottcable: mikolalysenko › agreed.
[20:31] mikolalysenko: Honestly, I don't care how google thinks about JS, but for me it is just a tool
[20:31] Brandon_R: lol you guys are probably too young to remember this
[20:31] elliottcable: mikolalysenko › I don’t think either of us was speaking to the *quality* of JS, unless it was something Nuck said before I came in.
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[20:32] mikolalysenko: and right now the only one that works
[20:32] cafesofie: what's wrong with the closure compiler?
[20:32] elliottcable: Brandon_R › what?
[20:32] Brandon_R: piracy in the 90's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up863eQKGUI
[20:32] amiller has joined the channel
[20:32] mikolalysenko: elliottcable: That was what the discussion was about
[20:32] mikolalysenko: we were originally talking about browser byte code vms vs javascript
[20:32] chjj: i give dart shit for the casing, dont they realize no one likes camelcase?
[20:32] `3rdEden has joined the channel
[20:32] mikolalysenko: and my feeling is that I would rather have a fast, portable, standard low level implementation, rather than a slippery scripting language as a performance target
[20:33] Nuck: chjj: camelCase > underscore_style
[20:33] Brandon_R: i like camelcase
[20:33] Nuck: mikolalysenko: Don't worry about speeds
[20:33] Nuck: Let the VM do that
[20:33] mikolalysenko: on the other hand, nuck rightly says that supporting a scripting language in that environment has some real costs associated to it; and that the current situation may be preferrable
[20:33] cafesofie: Nuck: hyphen-master-race
[20:33] diogogmt: hey guys
[20:33] Brandon_R: but i use the convention as depending on the language
[20:33] chjj: i dont care for underscores that much, but i at least like them better than camelcase
[20:33] diogogmt: jsut a quick question about express
[20:33] Nuck: cafesofie: haha
[20:33] Brandon_R: erlang is underscore
[20:33] mmalecki: yeah, like, really
[20:33] Nuck: I use UNDERSCORE_NOTATION for constants
[20:33] diogogmt: do I ened to isntall the moduels for every different express application?
[20:33] diogogmt: *need
[20:33] mmalecki: v8 has some nice hacks to do things fast
[20:33] elliottcable: mikolalysenko › NaCl.
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[20:34] Nuck: elliottcable: He suggested that JS VMs be put on NaCl
[20:34] elliottcable: Dart, or “JavaScript as the assembler” are just absolutely stupid.
[20:34] Nuck: Instead of in-browser
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[20:34] elliottcable: where we need to be headed is NaCl.
[20:34] Nuck: I called him crazy
[20:34] mikolalysenko: yeah, I will stand by that
[20:34] mikolalysenko: eventually I think that is the way to go
[20:34] cafesofie: elliottcable: mozilla has come out pretty strongly against nacl
[20:34] cafesofie: i wish they wouldn't but they are a bg
[20:34] elliottcable: JavaScript is great, and can stay around, but if we were all focused on NaCl instead of CoffeeScript and translation-to-JavaScript, we could have *real* compiled languages, and fast ones, on the web.
[20:34] cafesofie: big barrier to adoption*
[20:35] elliottcable: cafesofie › why’s that? I haven’t paid attention to the web in a while.
[20:35] mikolalysenko: yeah, I think javascript will always be around at least at some legacy level
[20:35] Nuck: elliottcable: I'd be interested to see a JS-to-NaCl compiler
[20:35] cafesofie: elliottcable: because mozilla has a serious hard on for javascript, and is convinced fast js vms + things like emscripten are the way to go
[20:35] Brandon_R: if you guys want it fast why not load an entire website into memory and only request data to be updated?
[20:35] Nuck: Which could then be expanded to have new features without browser adoption issues
[20:35] mikolalysenko: but moving forward, it makes more sense to look at smaller, tighter, vms with less overhead and more baremetal performance
[20:35] Brandon_R: like programs
[20:36] mmalecki: mikolalysenko: actually, small vms don't have JIT
[20:36] Drakonite2 has joined the channel
[20:36] mikolalysenko: mmalecki:  ???
[20:37] Nuck: mikolalysenko: He died
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[20:37] mikolalysenko: ah
[20:37] mmalecki has joined the channel
[20:37] Nuck: mikolalysenko: But he's right that a small VM would prolly lack JIT
[20:37] mikolalysenko: ah, you are correct
[20:37] Nuck: Which would make it inherently slow as fuck
[20:38] mikolalysenko: I should say that when I said small I meant "small ISA"
[20:38] mikolalysenko: not small js vm
[20:38] mmalecki: fuck. internet connection here is so crappy that I get disconnected everytime I say something
[20:38] mikolalysenko: that is a separate issue
[20:38] Nuck: mmalecki: Come to America, we have interwebs.
[20:38] meandi has joined the channel
[20:38] mmalecki: Nuck: no problem, give me a few months
[20:39] Brandon_R: compared to the eu, america's internet sucks
[20:39] mikolalysenko: yeah
[20:39] Nuck: Brandon_R: I think mmalecki is in like Poland or some shit.  One of those countries.
[20:39] mikolalysenko: but at least we aren't new zealand!
[20:39] Nuck: mikolalysenko: haha yeah
[20:39] Brandon_R: lol
[20:40] Nuck: mikolalysenko: My mobile dev is in NZ
[20:40] Nuck: It's lulzily bad
[20:40] Brandon_R: does japan have fast internet or is that just a sterotype?
[20:40] Nuck: Brandon_R: Nope, they do
[20:40] mikolalysenko: yeah, I've heard stories
[20:40] Brandon_R: how fast
[20:40] Brandon_R: oh
[20:40] Nuck: The price per Mbps is really low
[20:41] mmalecki has joined the channel
[20:42] Brandon_R: didn't google give topeka 1 gbps internebs?
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[20:42] kenperkins: man
[20:42] Nuck: Brandon_R: http://mybroadband.co.za/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/broadband-prices.jpg
[20:42] kenperkins: customer service takes a lot of work
[20:43] Nuck: Also http://lettersfromdave.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/internet-speeds-and-costs-full.gif
[20:43] joshkehn has joined the channel
[20:43] Nuck: 0.27/month/mbps
[20:43] joshkehn has left the channel
[20:44] Nuck: Average speed is 61mbps
[20:44] Nuck: America - 3.33/month/mbps, average of 4.8mbps
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[20:45] Brandon_R: well
[20:45] Brandon_R: most servers are in the us
[20:45] Brandon_R: so their internet is only as fast as us's
[20:45] Nuck: Brandon_R: Nope
[20:45] mmalecki: huh?
[20:45] Nuck: Servers get faster web
[20:45] Nuck: Always
[20:45] Brandon_R: i don't understand
[20:46] Nuck: Servers often have fiber which is like 100mbps or even 1gbps
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[20:46] Brandon_R: omg
[20:46] Nuck: Brandon_R: Servers have faster internet because the cost of hooking up a data center with fiber can be split among thousands of clients
[20:46] Brandon_R: why is japan so advanced
[20:46] Nuck: Brandon_R: Small country, pioneered many techs, etc.
[20:47] mmalecki: at hpc center in Poznań servers have 10 gbps fibers
[20:47] pizthewiz has joined the channel
[20:47] mikolalysenko: Brandon_R: They're geographically small, highly urban and very wealthy
[20:47] Brandon_R: sweet
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[20:47] Nuck: mmalecki: My SA is interning at the Amsterdam IX
[20:47] Brandon_R: how much does it cost to live in japan
[20:47] Nuck: They've got like 100gbps links and shit
[20:47] Nuck: Brandon_R: Dunno, good question
[20:47] Brandon_R: internet speed is my number 1 statistic for visiting countries lol
[20:48] Brandon_R: i mean considering living there
[20:48] mmalecki: Nuck: nice!
[20:48] mmalecki has joined the channel
[20:48] Nuck: Netherlands has damn good internet if you're in the good parts
[20:49] mmalecki has left the channel
[20:49] Nuck: I think the bad partsdrag the national averages down
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[20:49] Brandon_R: yep
[20:49] Brandon_R: they should remove the outliers like 56 kbps
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[20:49] Brandon_R: if its small
[20:49] Nuck: Brandon_R: That's just for broadband
[20:50] Nuck: So 56k won't be taken into account
[20:50] Brandon_R: oh
[20:50] Brandon_R: how does a country better their internet
[20:50] [[zz]] has joined the channel
[20:50] Brandon_R: do the citizens wait for the  company to make the decision or do they rise up
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[20:51] mikolalysenko: In the US there is legislation in many cities which prevents companies from competing with the cable/telephone companies
[20:51] Nuck: Brandon_R: IIRC the UK government ordered the ISPs
[20:51] mikolalysenko: so you basically just have to take what you can get
[20:51] Brandon_R: lolwut
[20:52] mikolalysenko: in my city, they tried putting in some faster municipal wifi, and it was good for a while, but then the cable company sued and shut them down
[20:52] Nuck: In the US, Google is entering the market with crazy-fast fiber, which will hopefully light fires under the asses of ISPs
[20:52] mikolalysenko: so oh well :(
[20:52] Brandon_R: the mobile wars are pretty vivious here
[20:52] Brandon_R: apple google samsung 
[20:52] tastapod has left the channel
[20:52] Brandon_R: there is a pretty funny pic showing the lawsuits and who they are from and who they are directed too
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[20:53] Brandon_R: Google, go get em.
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[20:53] Nuck: I'm hoping Apple wins against Samsung
[20:53] Brandon_R: mikolalysenko - its shit like that that pisses me off
[20:53] Nuck: Because Samsung did steal the designs
[20:53] tastapod has joined the channel
[20:53] Nuck: Their lawyer can't even tell the two tablets apart from 10 feet
[20:54] Brandon_R: what design
[20:54] mikolalysenko: yeah, the argument goes that the cable companies invested in the infrastructure so they should get some limited time monopoly
[20:54] mmalecki: fuck. did anybody get some weird socket errors with child processes on windows?
[20:54] mikolalysenko: of course what this ignores is that those infrastructure costs were heavily subsidized in the first place by tax dollars...
[20:54] Brandon_R: ahhh
[20:54] Brandon_R: that makes some sense mikolalysenko
[20:54] Nuck: mmalecki: Silent death of sockets?
[20:54] Brandon_R: but still
[20:54] mikolalysenko: and that they have failed to maintain them to any reasonable standard
[20:54] Brandon_R: don't trump innovation
[20:54] Nuck: mmalecki: On Windows or Cygwin?
[20:54] kenperkins: man
[20:54] Nuck: I had issues with sockets disappearing under Cygwin
[20:55] kenperkins: i don't know how to make my home computer feel better :S
[20:55] neekers: i've created a small app using socket.io, socket.broadcast.emit doesnt seem to work right after i start the app, it seems to take 30 seconds or so before a broadcast will take place, is there a reason for that?
[20:55] Brandon_R: why is cygwin a supported os target for node
[20:55] mmalecki: Nuck: Windows. and no, child_process.exec fails with 'Cannnot call method 'write' of null'
[20:55] neekers: so people can use node on windows
[20:55] CIA-48: node: 03Igor Zinkovsky 07 * r5ca3dcd 10/ (2 files): test: fix test-child-process-stdin and test-child-process-kill on windows - http://git.io/sKq0mA
[20:56] tastapod has left the channel
[20:56] mmalecki: hm.
[20:56] chjj: Brandon_R: because cygwin is more comfortable to use than windows itself i think
[20:56] Nuck: chjj: That.
[20:56] mmalecki: I have a strange feeling that this fix is what I'm looking for.
[20:56] Brandon_R: can't people just use virtual box?
[20:57] jackyyll: anyone have a good example of submitting multi-part foms with files in node (note: not accepting them, submitting them to another server)
[20:57] kenperkins: honestly as an ex microsoft employee, and now running a node app on ubuntu in production, why on earth would you run node on windows?
[20:57] Nuck: Brandon_R: Uh, no
[20:57] Nuck: kenperkins: I had to for a while
[20:57] chjj: virtualboxes, sure, its gonna eat a lot of memory, be slow, and be a pain in the ass sharing files, etc
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[20:57] neekers: kenperkins: exactly
[20:57] Nuck: I was on Windows for development
[20:57] Nuck: I switched to Ubuntu now
[20:57] kenperkins: that's what virtualbox/vmware/etc are for
[20:57] Brandon_R: i'm on windows here
[20:57] chjj: Nuck: do you like ubuntu? i figured you would like unity
[20:58] Nuck: chjj: I do.
[20:58] chjj: when everyone else hates it
[20:58] Nuck: I like Unity
[20:58] chjj: haha
[20:58] Nuck: Though I preferred the 11.04 unity more
[20:58] kenperkins: 
ACTION slaps DrPizza 

[20:58] kenperkins: I run osx at work, win7 at home, ubuntu 10.04 LTS in prod
[20:58] DrPizza: wut
[20:58] Nuck: 11.10 has some silly fuckups, like the tabs on terminal are all white instead of black
[20:58] kenperkins: (A few 10.10 here and there)
[20:58] kenperkins: see my comment on arstech peter
[20:59] DrPizza: where
[20:59] kenperkins: #prog
[20:59] chjj: terminal tabs are nonsense anyway
[20:59] Nuck: chjj: They're nice for when you have irssi, ssh, node, redis, mongo, etc.
[20:59] Brandon_R: i like cfce
[20:59] Nuck: All in one window
[20:59] Nuck: And you want a GUI for the tab switching
[20:59] chjj: Nuck: trust me, i always have 4+ terminals open
[20:59] chjj: Nuck: ive never desired tabs
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[21:00] Nuck: chjj: Oh, under Unity, multiwindow is a fucking PITA
[21:00] chjj: <-- openbox
[21:00] Nuck: chjj: It's the one thing that I hate about Unity
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[21:00] kenperkins: i often have 10 or 15 terminals open :S
[21:00] Nuck: The mutliwindow should be handled more like Windows 7
[21:00] mmalecki: xmonad!
[21:00] Brandon_R: lol
[21:00] Nuck: If I click on an open program with 5 windows, don't open all 5 windows, just show me a list
[21:01] Brandon_R: do u guys use gnome?
[21:01] chjj: well i usually have irssi, vim, and then 2 terminals for whatever, and sometimes a terminal file manager like vifm or mc, but not always
[21:01] Nuck: Brandon_R: Whatever Unity is based on, I think it's Compiz
[21:01] Nuck: I think there are some Gnome underpinnings IIRC
[21:01] chjj: Nuck: the compiz guy got hooked up by canonical
[21:01] chjj: Nuck: its a shame
[21:02] mmalecki: AvianFlu, japj: getting vows to work on windows will have to wait a little, I'm afraid. seems like node bug
[21:02] chjj: Nuck: now compiz is probably going to become more loosely coupled with unity? not sure
[21:02] chjj: i mean
[21:02] Brandon_R: quick question
[21:02] chjj: tightly coupled
[21:02] chjj: *
[21:02] Brandon_R: how old are you guys?
[21:02] chjj: 22
[21:02] neekers: when i first start up my app, i see "debug - broadcasting packet" when i try to broadcast, when it works properly, i see ALSO " debug - websocket writing 5:::{"name":"tomatovote","args":["compari"]}"
[21:02] neekers: why?
[21:03] neekers: why is it not writing to the socket when i first start up?
[21:03] AvianFlu: mmalecki, what did you run into
[21:03] chjj: i wonder what all the compiz standalone users are going to do if it becomes coupled with unity
[21:03] Brandon_R: any of u guys married?
[21:03] chjj: Brandon_R: whats with the personal questions?
[21:04] Brandon_R: jw
[21:04] mmalecki: hm. or wait, actually, that might be us. and /dev/null
[21:04] mmalecki: seriously, fuck windows!
[21:04] TheJH: a/s/l questions to the whole channel :D
[21:04] Ang3: oh mai on omegle ? 
[21:04] Ang3: :)
[21:06] Brandon_R: where
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[21:06] mmalecki: now, how do I open /dev/null-like stream on this useless piece of shit?
[21:07] chjj: mmalecki: huh?
[21:07] mmalecki: chjj: I need a stream which would behave like /dev/null on a sane operating systems.
[21:07] chjj: mmalecki: oh, you mean windows?
[21:07] chjj: 
ACTION asks google.

[21:07] mmalecki: chjj: yeah
[21:08] mmalecki: yeah, I know there's that pseudo-device
[21:08] chjj: http://www.google.com/search?q=windows+equivalent+of+%2Fdev%2Fnull
[21:08] mmalecki: but I don't want platform-specific hacks
[21:09] mmalecki: maybe npm has something interesting
[21:09] Brandon_R: newb question
[21:09] Brandon_R: what is the purpose of dev null
[21:09] chjj: its there to eat everything, its a black hole
[21:09] Ang3: LOL
[21:10] Brandon_R: jon skeet to the rescue
[21:10] Brandon_R: is there anything that guy doesn't know lol
[21:10] mmalecki: ok, I'll just fucking write it >.<
[21:10] chjj: mmalecki: what do you need it for?
[21:10] mmalecki: chjj: in vows we need to discard test output, so we send it to /dev/null
[21:11] mmalecki: actually, we bind process.stdout to /dev/null
[21:12] chjj: mmalecki: theres no other hack you could do?
[21:13] mmalecki: chjj: process.stdout.write = function () {};
[21:13] chjj: yeah ;p
[21:13] mmalecki: well, it's already dirty.
[21:13] chjj: i really have no idea what the internals of windows look like
[21:13] mmalecki: so why not try it
[21:14] mmalecki: chjj: well, it basically tries to throw a pile of shit at you when you try doing anything more complicated than copying files
[21:14] chjj: do you remember to duck?
[21:14] mmalecki: that's the trickiest thing when using their API
[21:14] kurmangazy: are you working on the Windows port of node.js?
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[21:14] AvianFlu: the internals of windows are hideous
[21:15] mmalecki: no, I'm working on Windows port of vows
[21:15] kurmangazy: oh
[21:15] AvianFlu: kurmangazy, node.js mostly works on windows, he's working on making a popular test runner work on windows
[21:15] AvianFlu: it will help us move lots of modules
[21:15] kurmangazy: yeah, I ran into vows yesterday
[21:16] kurmangazy: I want to work on a better XML parsing API, but my virtual Linux is unbootable since I tried to upgrade Ubuntu
[21:17] kurmangazy: I had a feeling that doing the Ubuntu upgrade was a bad idea
[21:18] Ang3: that's always a bad idea to upgrade the after the release :)
[21:18] mmalecki: what the fucking fuck?!
[21:18] chjj: ive had ubuntu just completely die on my machine, from a fresh install, it can be avoided by not installing ubuntu i think
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[21:19] mmalecki: no, idiot, it's not a socket!
[21:19] mmalecki: actually, it is
[21:19] mmalecki: but why the fuck would writing to it result in an error?
[21:19] kurmangazy: heh.. chjj.. I'm running it in VirtualBox, and last time I tried to change kernels it wouldn't boot. I didn't know Ubuntu would forceably change kernels on me
[21:19] mmalecki: I'm done for today. gotta do some real porting.
[21:20] chjj: thats what usually happens after a dist-upgrade
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[21:20] chjj: youre going to have to reinstall all your kernel modules and whatnot
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[21:22] kurmangazy: as much as I love Linux, I don't want to spend the time becoming an expert in low-level stuff just to have a working machine. it takes so much time
[21:22] chjj: kurmangazy: you would love arch linux or gentoo then ;p
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[21:24] kurmangazy: I was pretty good with it 10 years or so ago, but that was with LILO. now it's GRUB, which looks way more complex. and I don't know anything about how VirtualBox works internally.
[21:24] kurmangazy: chjj: is arch or gentoo easier? or are you being facetious?
[21:25] mmalecki has joined the channel
[21:25] chjj: kurmangazy: i was joking, arch and gentoo are a bit more lowlevel than ubuntu ;)
[21:25] kurmangazy: ah. well, at least they probably ask you before blowing away your kernel. or whatever Ubuntu did.
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[21:26] mmalecki: so, actually, how crazy should a person be to use Windows?
[21:26] |sWORDs|: Does anyone know why CreateServer is not in the latest version of express?
[21:27] AvianFlu: mmalecki, if you don't do the kind of stuff that we do, windows is fine
[21:27] AvianFlu: if you think this stuff is weird, you should start looking into the win32api
[21:27] AvianFlu: I mean, jesus christ does that shit suck
[21:27] kurmangazy: mmalecki: are you an OSX guy or gal, or do you prefer straight *nix?
[21:27] meandi2 has joined the channel
[21:28] AvianFlu: linux ftw I say
[21:28] mmalecki: AvianFlu: I did. I was windows programmer for some time
[21:28] chjj: ive never liked osx, i think i might prefer windows to osx even
[21:28] mmalecki: and yeah, Linux, or just *nix
[21:28] mmalecki: I'm getting myself a mb to check os x tho
[21:29] mmalecki: it's like, in The Netherlands now
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[21:29] |sWORDs|: mmalecki, building a hackintosh?
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[21:30] AvianFlu: I'd actually rather hack win32api than use a mac, truthfully
[21:30] kurmangazy: it would be nice to have access to shell scripting and such without CygWin or virtualization. but I would be afraid of starting to like apple-only software and getting locked in to the apple universe
[21:30] mmalecki: mmalecki: no, just getting a mac
[21:30] mmalecki: I'm more like curious
[21:30] ryanrolds: |sWORDs|: createServer should't be missing. Are you using CreateServer or createServer?
[21:31] |sWORDs|: mb = macbook, I thought you ment motherboard
[21:31] singintime has joined the channel
[21:31] |sWORDs|: app = express.createServer();
[21:31] chjj: people always give cygwin crap, its not that bad
[21:31] ryanrolds: What version of Node?
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[21:31] kurmangazy: I actually like building my own computer from parts. Apple is hostile to that.
[21:31] singintime: hello world
[21:32] |sWORDs|: ryanrolds: Node 0.5.9. In the old express.js there is a exports.createServer, which isn't in the 3.0 there is a function createApplication() but that's making connect 2.0 crash
[21:32] kurmangazy: chjj: forks and execs in Cygwin are *really* slow. I mean *really*. which really limits your ability to write shell scripts.
[21:32] ryanrolds: 0.5.x isn't supported
[21:32] jhbot: singintime, hello human :)
[21:33] ryanrolds: Express only supports 0.4.x atm.
[21:33] chjj: kurmangazy: eh, its still good for what it does, its a good project
[21:33] |sWORDs|: "engines": { "node":">= 0.5.0 < 0.7.0" }
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[21:34] ryanrolds: TJ is working on getting it to run. How did you install Express from GH or NPM?
[21:34] singintime: I'm completely new to node.js... I was considering it for building a bulletin board system
[21:35] ryanrolds: The master branch currently is a work in progress.
[21:35] singintime: has anybody aleady done that?
[21:35] kurmangazy: chjj: it's the only game in town for what it does. but the speed boost when I switched to virtual linux was phenomenal.
[21:35] kurmangazy: chjj: I think the problems are with Windows. they are not CygWin's fault.
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[21:36] |sWORDs|: ryanrolds: I've used github. visionmedia authored October 06, 2011 "node":">= 0.5.0 < 0.7.0"
[21:36] |sWORDs|: so I'm to early
[21:36] ryanrolds: Yes, but that is basically a nightly, no guarantee it will work.
[21:36] chjj: kurmangazy: all im saying is, if i were using windows, i would use cygwin, theres no point to me running a linux distro in a vm when i can just boot up linux on a real machine
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[21:36] ryanrolds: What happens when you run the tests tests for express?
[21:37] ryanrolds: I bet money a lot of them fail. ;)
[21:37] chjj: kurmangazy: id rather have something minimal
[21:37] |sWORDs|: It's kind of weird, because the old version works on 0.5.9 if change the package.json file and install it with npm locally
[21:37] ryanrolds: Um, if you worked you were exceptionally lucky.
[21:38] ryanrolds: *if it worked
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[21:38] |sWORDs|: ryanrolds: I have no idea, there are no tests in zip
[21:38] |sWORDs|: ryanrolds: Yes it worked fine, atleast the parts that I used
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[21:38] ryanrolds: The express archive should have a test/ dir.
[21:39] |sWORDs|: The only reason why I need 0.5.x is because the guy that's building the interface is using windows.
[21:39] tlynn has joined the channel
[21:39] |sWORDs|: Maybe I should switch to cygwin then
[21:39] ryanrolds: Have you run npm install in the untared archive?
[21:39] javier_ has joined the channel
[21:39] ryanrolds: Or linux.
[21:39] ryanrolds: Linux would probably be the best route ;)
[21:40] kurmangazy: chjj: I like to tune my shell. Getting interesting kinds of bash completion to work fast in Cygwin, you had to avoid doing any kind of forks. You can do a lot in bash without forking, but it's really difficult.
[21:40] |sWORDs|: ryanrolds: The server will be linux, it's just the other dev that has never ever done anything with linnux
[21:40] ryanrolds: Fire that dev.
[21:41] ryanrolds: Good devs keep their tools sharp.
[21:41] jtsnow has joined the channel
[21:41] |sWORDs|: He's actually paying me... Which makes it difficult to fire him :P
[21:41] kersny has joined the channel
[21:41] |sWORDs|: Maybe I should give him a nice virtualbox
[21:41] chjj: 
ACTION starts up a windows vm to install cygwin and see how bad it really is.

[21:42] ryanrolds: Did you use npm to install express from the tar or just extract it?
[21:42] |sWORDs|: but yes I've used npm
[21:42] javier_: hey ppl, just a little question: are node modules supported on windows? I see no note on the documentation against that. I successfully build my addon but it fails to load it
[21:42] kurmangazy: chjj: that said, even when you can use the completion scripts that come with Ubuntu, it doesn't work all that well. I kind of just gave up on getting decent completion.
[21:42] |sWORDs|: javier_: Most seem to work ok
[21:43] javier_: how? I get the error: TypeError: Object #<EventEmitter> has no method 'dlopen'
[21:43] javier_: when trying to require my addon module
[21:43] ryanrolds: You should beable to find express in the node_modules dir.
[21:43] kurmangazy: chjj: if you want to see slow, try using the full set of bash completion scripts
[21:43] ryanrolds: If you run npm install -d and run make test you should see the tests run.
[21:43] |sWORDs|: ryanrolds: Yes it's there, but there are no test files
[21:44] ryanrolds: My have been a bad download.
[21:45] |sWORDs|: express folder contains bin, lib and node_modules (which contains commander, connect, mime, mkdirp and qs)
[21:46] |sWORDs|: hmmm, it's npm that does not copy the test files in to node_modules, the zip has them
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[21:48] |sWORDs|: express.test.js: Error: Cannot find module 'should'
[21:49] ryanrolds: You're right. In node_modules/express run npm install
[21:49] ryanrolds: May have to do do npm install -d
[21:49] ryanrolds: Er, if you had tests to run you would want to do -d.
[21:49] |sWORDs|: -d is development?
[21:50] ryanrolds: It installs the dev dependencies.
[21:50] |sWORDs|: So that's where the development deps are for, seen them in the package.json
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[21:55] javier_: well the answer is no, C/C++ addon modules are not supported in windows, since dlopen() is not included in node heh, it will rock to add that information to the documentation
[21:55] ryanrolds: I'm trying the connect and express tests now.
[21:56] ryanrolds: Connect failed (I plan putting some work in to that this weekend), about to test express.
[21:56] ryanrolds: *plan on
[21:57] markdaws: is there any reliable way for JavaScript to know it is running in node?  An object/property that won't disappear at some point?  I have JS shared between the client and node and want  a way to know.  I was just checking for the existance of a global variable called exports, but that clashes with some object used in YUI toolkit
[21:57] ryanrolds: Until earlier this week expresso didn't even run on 0.5.9, so couldn't even run the tests. ;)
[21:57] kurmangazy: javier_: DLLs in windows work a bit different than so files in *nix
[21:58] javier_: sure, now i see in node.cc that process.dlopen is being included only under #ifdef __POSIX__
[21:58] mmalecki: Bradley Meck was working on node addons for windows
[21:59] mmalecki: he isn't around now, but checkout his fork
[21:59] ryanrolds: markdaws: Check 'process.versions.node'
[21:59] javier_: tnx, I will
[21:59] |sWORDs|: really hard to install -d, most dependencies also have node < 5.0
[21:59] markdaws: ryanrolds: Thanks, that looks pretty stable.
[22:00] ryanrolds: If it's not node, don't expect process or process.version to exist.
[22:01] ryanrolds: markdaws: Also process.version per http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.3.1/api/process.html#process.version
[22:02] kurmangazy: does javascript have any inherent limitations that are going to mess you up in node? I noticed that util.print() is really slow.
[22:02] kurmangazy: maybe it is unbuffered?
[22:02] Brandon_R has joined the channel
[22:02] Brandon_R: what's up
[22:02] DualDetroit has joined the channel
[22:02] Brandon_R: who are your guys favorite publisher?
[22:02] ryanrolds: |sWORDs|: A trick to getting stuff to install is npm install --node-version 0.4.12
[22:02] DualDetroit: Okay, I am so fucked off with this.
[22:02] Brandon_R: lol
[22:03] Brandon_R: dependency hell 
[22:03] DualDetroit: There is a *bug* in response.write(), I swear
[22:03] Brandon_R: has that problem been solved in any programming language?
[22:03] kurmangazy: Brandon_R: of computer books?
[22:03] Brandon_R: yep
[22:03] DualDetroit: Why the fuck does response.write() return FALSE?
[22:03] Brandon_R: or do u guys don't care about publishers and just buy a book that interests you?
[22:03] DualDetroit: Is node.js that buggy?
[22:03] Brandon_R: calm down
[22:04] DualDetroit: And of course, write NOTHING to the HTTP client
[22:04] Brandon_R: how is that a bug?
[22:04] kurmangazy: Brandon_R: obviously o'reilly and apress have a lot of good stuff, but I found that the authors are much more important
[22:04] javier_: that's a minimal response
[22:04] DualDetroit: Brandon_R: Because it doesn't work and I'm about to get yelled at for going over the deadline and now the whole project is *ffffcked*
[22:04] Brandon_R: ahh
[22:04] Brandon_R: maybe i can help
[22:04] Brandon_R: what is your problem?
[22:04] kurmangazy: Brandon_R: I look at the reviews a book has gotten on amazon
[22:05] Brandon_R: oreilly books has gotten bad
[22:05] Brandon_R: i mean 50-60 page books?
[22:05] SubStack: if write() returns false that means it's buffering
[22:05] AvianFlu: DualDetroit, what substack said
[22:05] SubStack: it has to do with backpressure from putting too much data through the connection
[22:06] AvianFlu: you need to wait for the 'drain' event on the connection to resume it
[22:06] SubStack: DualDetroit: if you use .pipe() then it will take care of all of the backpressure pause/resume logic
[22:06] Brandon_R_ has joined the channel
[22:06] Brandon_R_: are you doing if condition on responce.write()?
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[22:08] JdpB42: any rails clone or rails like clone in node.js?
[22:09] kurmangazy: Brandon_R: what books are 50-60 pages?
[22:09] JdpB42: also anyone use coffeescript for when building node.js stuff? I do like the lesser amount of syntax a bit more 
[22:09] |sWORDs|: ryanrolds: expresso, connect and jade still fail with npm, I'll try to do them manually
[22:09] Brandon_R_: the new books
[22:09] Brandon_R_: html5
[22:09] Brandon_R_: nodejs
[22:09] Brandon_R_: maybe its because they are new technologies
[22:10] Brandon_R_: in a couple months i expect they would be coming out with 300 page books
[22:10] kurmangazy: Brandon_R_: what are the titles?
[22:10] Brandon_R_: lemme check
[22:10] JdpB42: anyone?
[22:11] Brandon_R_: html5 animations
[22:12] JmZ has joined the channel
[22:13] JmZ: terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::bad_alloc' O_o, a C++ error? lol
[22:13] kurmangazy: Creating HTML5 Animations with Flash and Wallaby? I thought that HTML5 meant that you didn't need Flash anymore?
[22:14] |sWORDs|: ryanrolds: express.test.js gives no errors, only that sys is now called util
[22:15] Brandon_R_: yeah
[22:15] Brandon_R_: no
[22:15] Brandon_R_: you create it in flash
[22:15] Brandon_R_: and adobe wallaby converts it into html
[22:15] Brandon_R_: http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/wallaby/
[22:15] JmZ: why would adobe make an app to convert flash to html?
[22:16] kurmangazy: oh. why would you use Flash at all, then?
[22:16] JmZ: isn't that like making their own product obsolete
[22:16] kurmangazy: I guess if you already have something working in Flash...
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[22:23] ryanolds_wrap: Just got in to the office and a co-worked walked over with an unopened bottle of Jameson and set it on my desk.
[22:24] syrio has left the channel
[22:24] mmalecki: he loves you?
[22:24] JmZ: cool story
[22:24] ryanolds_wrap: she
[22:24] fbartho: Is it now an empty bottle?
[22:24] fbartho: Go sit at her desk and drink it with her.
[22:25] tankpilot has joined the channel
[22:25] fbartho: Bring glasses.
[22:25] fbartho: Bring clean glasses.*
[22:25] ryanolds_wrap: She has her own and we both need to get some work done.
[22:25] mmalecki: what are doing on irc? you should be doing what fbartho says.
[22:25] javier_ has joined the channel
[22:25] fbartho: 200people are smacking you upside the head if you don't drink that bottle with her before you guys leave here today.
[22:25] ryanolds_wrap: It's no longer unopened though ;)
[22:25] Bonuspunkt: empty the bottle than talk to her ^^
[22:25] ryanolds_wrap: Haha
[22:25] |sWORDs|: is ryanolds_wrap = ruanrolds
[22:26] |sWORDs|: ryanrolds
[22:26] javier_: so, I've downloaded a copy of the branch "windowsdll" of the bmeck's node fork... someone with experience building node on windows??
[22:26] ryanolds_wrap: <- Work account
[22:26] |sWORDs|: just sended it you: express.test.js gives no errors, only that sys is now called util. But my code still gives: TypeError: Object function createApplication() {} has no method 'createServer'
[22:26] |sWORDs|:  All I do is call app = express.createServer();
[22:27] ryanolds_wrap: What does the require line for express look like?
[22:27] Bonuspunkt: javier_ i did it once, install visual studio run batch file - done
[22:27] |sWORDs|: express = require('express');
[22:27] javier_: i've vs but the batch file fails
[22:28] Bonuspunkt: you have python?
[22:28] DualDetroit has joined the channel
[22:28] |sWORDs|: the same file worked with the old version, didn't change a line
[22:28] kurmangazy: javier_: I tried using gawk native-code extensions under cygwin, and building the extensions themselves gets tricky. the DLL can't have undefined symbols.
[22:28] javier_: yes
[22:28] DualDetroit: Sorry, got disconnected.
[22:28] javier_:   File "tools\gyp_node", line 20     print 'Error running GYP'        SyntaxError: invalid syntax             Failed to create vc project files.
[22:28] DualDetroit: Brandon_R_: Here is a test case: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/150515
[22:28] javier_: kurmangazy: sure, my dll is just the one in the documentation, has no underfined symbols
[22:28] ryanolds_wrap: Looks like Express doesn't support 0.5.9 yet.
[22:29] DualDetroit: request.write() is never working on line 17 there.
[22:29] Bonuspunkt: hmm i installed python and added it to the path variable
[22:29] kurmangazy: javier_: so the extension has already been built properly?
[22:29] javier_: I'm not a python coder heh
[22:29] DualDetroit: Err, response.write() is not working on line 17
[22:29] ryanolds_wrap: I know that TJ is working on updating his modules to 0.5.9, he commented it was going to take him 3 weeks to get all of them updated.
[22:29] javier_: sure, I compiled it fine
[22:30] DualDetroit: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/150515 -- Can someone please tell me what the hell is going on with response.write() to not work on the second time?
[22:30] DualDetroit: Is it a scope issue?
[22:30] kurmangazy: when I was trying to do it with gawk, I just gave up and started using virtual Linux. too much trouble for too little gain.
[22:30] javier_: with g++, the problem comes with the node binary (0.5.9), it says it doesn't contain the function dlopen() when I try to require my addon module, which makes sense since in the node.cc the dlopen function is defined under __POSIX__ define
[22:31] kurmangazy: javier_: what version of g++? cygwin, mingw? something else?
[22:31] javier_: sure, it's a simple problem really, but I'm stuck now trying to compile the node fork with dll support
[22:31] |sWORDs|: ryanolds_wrap: It does use zlib which wasn't in 0.5.7
[22:32] javier_: g++ 4.5.0
[22:32] kurmangazy: doesn't it have to be something like mingw?
[22:33] DualDetroit: 
ACTION should have never used node.js for a production project :<

[22:33] |sWORDs|: ryanolds_wrap: Anyway thanks for thinking with me, I'll go back to the "old" version and check again when 0.5.x is final and supported by express and connect
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[22:33] |sWORDs|: DualDetroit: What went wrong?
[22:33] ryanolds_wrap: |sWORDs|: Report the error you're getting: https://github.com/visionmedia/express/issues?sort=updated&direction=desc&state=open
[22:34] kurmangazy: DualDetroit: that's why it's the "bleeding edge"
[22:34] DualDetroit: |sWORDs|: See http://paste.scsys.co.uk/150515
[22:34] DualDetroit: Please help a noder :(
[22:34] javier_: oh can't tell about that, I compiled with "g++ -g -DEV_MULTIPLICITY=0 hello.cc -c -o hello.node"
[22:34] ryanolds_wrap: DualDetroit: Are you trying to run 0.5.x on production?
[22:35] javier_: in any case as soon as I get compiled the node with DLL support I will know if the addon is generated ok or not heh
[22:35] bnoordhuis: DualDetroit: you're doing a .write() in the 'end' listener, that won't work
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[22:36] bnoordhuis: DualDetroit: what are you trying to accomplish?
[22:36] DualDetroit: ryanolds_wrap: This is node v 0.4.8
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[22:36] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: Why would it not work?
[22:36] ryanolds_wrap: HTTPS?
[22:36] DualDetroit: Nah, http
[22:37] bnoordhuis: DualDetroit: by the time you get the 'end' event, the connection's been closed
[22:37] ryanolds_wrap: Hum, does it have the same issue on 0.4.12/
[22:37] |sWORDs|: End is on closure
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[22:37] JmZ: hmm
[22:38] javier_: I'm reinstalling VC++ 2010 Express just in case
[22:38] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: So what's the correct event to check for to know when all the form data from the POST has been read in?
[22:38] bnoordhuis: DualDetroit: oh, and it's on the request object - i don't think request ever emits 'end'
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[22:38] DualDetroit: hmm
[22:38] bnoordhuis: DualDetroit: 'response'
[22:38] JmZ: im downloading a file via http.get, then on the data event, writing the chunks out to the client. so, in short, using the server as a sort of proxy to download a file. after testing it though, its clear that the memory usage increases by the size of the file, is there no way to only store the current chunk in memory?
[22:38] avih has joined the channel
[22:39] ryanolds_wrap: DualDetroit: bnoordhuis, is very likely right.
[22:40] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: I am using request.addListener('end' so I know when it is done reading in the request body's form data.
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[22:41] bnoordhuis: DualDetroit: is your script a http server or client?
[22:41] fmeyer has joined the channel
[22:42] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: Server
[22:43] avih has joined the channel
[22:43] |sWORDs|: ryanolds_wrap: https://github.com/visionmedia/express/issues/867
[22:43] JmZ: anyone mind reading my problem
[22:43] Brandon_R_: anyone here have a girlfriend?
[22:44] JmZ: -.-
[22:44] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: This tutorials says there is an end event for request: http://jnjnjn.com/113/node-js-for-noobs-grabbing-post-content/
[22:44] Industrial: JmZ: I can't mind read your problem :(
[22:44] Industrial: JmZ: try explaining.
[22:44] JmZ: try explaining? i wrote a huge paragraph up above
[22:44] Industrial: </lame-jokes>
[22:45] JmZ: scroll up
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[22:46] |sWORDs|: JmZ: I did read it, I just don't have a clue
[22:46] JmZ: that's nice to know
[22:47] DualDetroit: Say I am doing the follow to read in POSTed form data: req.addListener("data", function(chunk) { 		req.content += chunk; 	});
[22:48] bnoordhuis: DualDetroit: sorry, i thought your example was a client
[22:48] DualDetroit: How do I know when I've read in everything?
[22:48] bnoordhuis: yes, request emits 'end'
[22:48] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: Sorry, I should have been more clear :p
[22:48] avih has joined the channel
[22:49] mmalecki: ah. Server.prototype._doListen got removed, right?
[22:49] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: So it's really weird that anything output from response.write() inside my 'end' listener function is not seen in the browser :-/
[22:49] bnoordhuis: DualDetroit: does it work with curl?
[22:50] JmZ: i think i get it, my problem
[22:50] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: Trying...
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[22:50] bnoordhuis: DualDetroit: you never call response.writeHead() btw
[22:50] JmZ: it will download it faster than the client receives it, so the slower a client is, the more it has to store in memory until it is served
[22:50] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: Why not?
[22:50] JmZ: however, if this is the case then im not sure of a way to avoid it
[22:50] ryanolds_wrap: JmZ: I would need to see the code to see if some odd assignment is happening. Have you tried piping the data between the streams?
[22:51] JmZ: what do you think of what i just said
[22:51] bnoordhuis: DualDetroit: i don't know why you don't call it :)
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[22:52] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: Argh, I don't even have curl on my system :-/
[22:52] kurmangazy: JmZ: can't you refuse to accept the packets? say, pause the stream
[22:52] ryanolds_wrap: That would require some buffering, if you use .pipe() it should handle all of that for you, but I haven't check the memory footprint while piping data around.
[22:52] japj: mmalecki: you have a problem with node on windows using vows? (is there an issue in node that you are hitting?)
[22:52] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: Oh, could that be why?
[22:52] mmalecki: JmZ: pipe the stream to client
[22:52] bnoordhuis: DualDetroit: probably
[22:52] JmZ: ryanolds_wrap: i originally wanted to use pipe() but i wasn't sure how
[22:52] DualDetroit: hmm
[22:52] JmZ: mmalecki too
[22:52] mmalecki: japj: yeah. some weird socket stuff when writing to console (?)
[22:53] mmalecki: japj: I will look into it later
[22:53] mmalecki: windows makes me unhappy
[22:53] AvianFlu: japj: there's no /dev/null on windows, that's ultimately the problem
[22:53] japj: mmalecki: atleast submit the issue to github if it's not already known
[22:53] JmZ: download_response.pipe(client_response) or something?
[22:53] mmalecki: no, that was quite easy to figure out actually
[22:53] AvianFlu: oh, what's the problem now?
[22:54] mmalecki: I just set stdout.write to noop
[22:54] mmalecki: not sure
[22:54] AvianFlu: I figured you'd do that
[22:54] AvianFlu: okay, I'll start testing it myself in a little
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[22:54] mmalecki: I'll look into it tomorrow, windows is slow on my laptop
[22:54] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: Didn't help :-/
[22:54] AvianFlu: japj this is high on our priorities list, cause getting the test runner ported willl help port other things
[22:54] japj: AvianFlu: I thought windows had a NUL device
[22:54] mmalecki: so it makes me 2x unhappy
[22:54] AvianFlu: japj he solved that problem, I'm just a little behind
[22:54] mmalecki: japj: still, that's a hac
[22:54] mmalecki: *hack
[22:55] mmalecki: I will write a npm module to emulate all sort of /dev/* thingies, I think
[22:55] JmZ: ahh
[22:55] JmZ: this is better
[22:55] DualDetroit: Still not working: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/150517
[22:55] avih has joined the channel
[22:55] ryanolds_wrap: JmZ: It's unintuitively easy. readableStream.pipe(writableStream);
[22:56] JmZ: mmalecki, ryanolds_wrap: pipe seems to have resolved the problem
[22:56] DualDetroit: Could there be a bug with node.js?
[22:56] javier_: damn, reinstalling VC++ 2010 Express didn't help, seems a problem with that GYP crap
[22:56] japj: mmalecki AvianFlu isn't it something that should be in node or libuv eventually?
[22:56] JmZ: yeah i know ryanolds_wrap i noticed above
[22:56] mmalecki: is there some direct equivalent of net.Server.prototype._doListen in 0.6?
[22:56] mmalecki: japj: well, maybe...
[22:56] ryanolds_wrap: ^_^
[22:56] mmalecki: bnoordhuis: ^ ?
[22:57] bnoordhuis: mmalecki: what do you need it for?
[22:57] javier_: seems to be a python version problem, it says "invalid syntax" into what seems to be valid python code
[22:57] mmalecki: bnoordhuis: piping my stuff to black hole
[22:57] japj: javier_: what version of python are you using?
[22:58] bnoordhuis: DualDetroit: can you gist your full script?
[22:58] javier_: python 3.1.2
[22:58] mmalecki: bnoordhuis: like, child's stdout and things.
[22:58] tauren: If I want to execute the following command from within a node script, how would I do it using spawn?  
[22:58] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: okay
[22:58] tauren: jade < myfile.jade > myfile.html
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[22:58] mmalecki: tauren: don't. jade has an api.
[22:59] tauren: mmalecki: sure, but i'm using it as an example. other scripts don't have an api.
[22:59] bnoordhuis: mmalecki: i don't understand why you need to bind for that
[22:59] bnoordhuis: mmalecki: but there's ._listen2
[23:00] bnoordhuis: that's for server sockets btw
[23:00] javier_: now, it seems there are 2 different pythons out there, the 2.x and the 3.x ... a little rant: having to be a python hacker to build node sucks
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[23:00] mmalecki: tauren: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.5.9/api/child_processes.html , pipe child's stdout to file stream
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[23:00] mmalecki: bnoordhuis: that's for doing magic (haibu, nodejitsu's app server needs that). thanks!
[23:02] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: Here it is: https://gist.github.com/1290287
[23:02] tauren: mmalecki: thanks, i've been looking at the 0.4.12 docs, but I'm not understanding how to "pipe child's stdout to file stream"
[23:02] AvianFlu: child.stdout.pipe(fs.createWriteStream(filename))
[23:02] tauren: AvianFlu: ah, cool. thanks!
[23:02] AvianFlu: yeah, stream.pipe() is gangster
[23:03] AvianFlu: most of the time, you want to be using it
[23:03] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: There's some ugly code, but the relevant part starts at line 128
[23:03] mmalecki: SubStack wrote a stoppable one
[23:03] AvianFlu: or, you wish you didn't have to do complicated thing X so that you could just .pipe() it
[23:03] SubStack: mmalecki: haha I just took the lib/stream.js out of node and put a return cleanup at the end
[23:03] mmalecki: would be cool if pipe had a filter or something
[23:04] tauren: great, thanks for the help guys
[23:04] mmalecki: SubStack: still, that's cool :)
[23:04] AvianFlu: I think mikeal's streams2 had something like that
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[23:05] bnoordhuis: DualDetroit: your example is a little too big and i've got to go
[23:05] japj: javier_: you get File "tools\gyp_node", line 20
[23:05] bnoordhuis: DualDetroit: but look at how e.g. test/simple/test-http-client-upload.js does it
[23:05] japj:   print 'Error running GYP'?
[23:05] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: Okay
[23:05] javier_: japj: yes
[23:06] DualDetroit: bnoordhuis: I will look at that on github :)
[23:06] japj: javier_: that is because python 3.x changed print to a function
[23:07] javier_: I see
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[23:09] javier_: I installed Python 2.7.2 now and I'm trying to get it working
[23:09] kurmangazy: has anyone played with XML parsing?
[23:10] AvianFlu: I wrote an XML parser in perl 5 years ago XD
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[23:11] kurmangazy: AvianFlu: from scratch?
[23:11] AvianFlu: yeah
[23:11] AvianFlu: I was using one with a really, really, really shitty api
[23:11] kurgangazy_: what was it like?
[23:11] AvianFlu: so eventually I said "fuck that"
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[23:11] AvianFlu: well here's the thing
[23:12] AvianFlu: if you just need to parse a straightforward tag structure, it's easy
[23:12] AvianFlu: but there's a lot to xml if you start trying to rfc yourself
[23:12] japj: javier_: apparently gyp python3 support has been a long known issue already http://code.google.com/p/gyp/issues/detail?id=36&q=python (from 2009)
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[23:12] kurmangazy: yeah, the devil's in the details
[23:12] AvianFlu: so I basically read the RFC and gave up
[23:12] japj: javier_: so far for python3 being used with gyp much
[23:12] AvianFlu: but the use case I built it for - easy parsing of simple xml structures another script was making - it was easy
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[23:14] kurmangazy: AvianFlu: I have been trying to make XML parsing easy. I started writing an extension to gawk that would let you parse XML in a sane way. I didn't start from scratch, though. I was using libxml2
[23:14] AvianFlu: polotek was trying to port that to node
[23:14] AvianFlu: it was apparently a moderate nightmare, if I remember correctly
[23:14] kurmangazy: port what, libxml2?
[23:14] AvianFlu: bind it, not port it, really
[23:14] AvianFlu: i.e. wrap it in a c++ extension
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[23:15] kurmangazy: I am using the libxmljs extension. is that polotek's? it seems to work
[23:15] AvianFlu: he put a lot of work into it, I'd imagine it's pretty solid
[23:15] ryanolds_wrap: I may just be crazy, and maybe it already does this, but it would be nifty if you could pipe, but still consume the data event and manipulate the data before it gets written out.
[23:15] AvianFlu: I just know it presented a lot of complications
[23:16] kurmangazy: AvianFlu: I am only using the SAX part. the other stuff is too heavy and unnecessary.
[23:17] ryanolds_wrap: I end up getting data from a socket and piping it out an response and it would be nice if I could streaming gzip the incoming data before it's written out to the client.
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[23:18] ryanolds_wrap: *out an HTTP response
[23:18] kurmangazy: AvianFlu: for my gawk extension, first I implemented the tree. then I realized it was reading the whole document into memory, so I reimplemented it with the reader. Then I realized that it was going to make memory management really difficult. So I was getting ready to reimplement a third time using SAX.
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[23:18] AvianFlu: yeah, welcome to the problem
[23:19] AvianFlu: a universally useful parser is severely non-trivial
[23:19] AvianFlu: one use case, easy problem
[23:20] javier_: ok, I got the node.exe finally built with Python 2.7.2 installed
[23:20] kurmangazy: AvianFlu: I am trying to make the problem better. I'm creating an API for node on top of SAX.
[23:20] javier_: and when trying to load the hello.node it says it's not a valid win32 app which is true by what I see in a hex editor heh
[23:21] javier_: so my building attempt with g++ was wrong
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[23:21] japj: javier_: are you trying to build a c++ addon for windows?
[23:22] javier_: yap
[23:22] japj: piscisaureus: do you know if it is possible to build c++ addons for node on windows yet?
[23:23] kurmangazy: AvianFlu: there are already a number of choices for what to build on, though. different flavors of expat, libxmljs, others...
[23:23] javier_: I guess it should, what I was compiling was the node's fork of bmeck (branch windowsdll), that by what I see in the source code, is calling LoadLibrary in the process.dlopen() which is correct
[23:24] javier_: the error that I'm getting now, suggest it is working ok (it failed to load a non valid w32 dll)
[23:25] kurmangazy: javier_: like I said, building the DLL is not trivial
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[23:26] javier_: sure, now that I reinstalled VS I will try using that
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[23:27] AvianFlu: kurmangazy, you can, and you should, for sure
[23:27] AvianFlu: I'm just sharing my experience of the problem
[23:27] AvianFlu: five years ago in perl, I didn't have incentive to finish solving it
[23:27] AvianFlu: you, now, may
[23:28] piscisaureus: japj: it itsn't - yet
[23:28] kurmangazy: AvianFlu: what I'm doing is different. I'm using an existing SAX parser.
[23:28] piscisaureus: addons are a special kind of problem
[23:28] kurmangazy: AvianFlu: I'm just trying to give it a better API.
[23:28] AvianFlu: oh.
[23:29] AvianFlu: well that you should definitely be able to do
[23:29] kurmangazy: someone wrote a parser in pure javascript, but it used a lot of memory and was slow
[23:29] AvianFlu: not surprising
[23:30] kurmangazy: there's no point in reinventing the wheel.
[23:30] kurmangazy: if you can't do it better.
[23:30] AvianFlu: true
[23:30] DualDetroit: What are all of the events that I can .addListener() on for the request object?
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[23:31] DualDetroit: Is there an event that will tell me when there is no more 'data'?
[23:31] Brandon_R_: hi
[23:32] Brandon_R_: anyone got an example of how to build a c++ addon on node
[23:32] Brandon_R_: or libev
[23:32] Brandon_R_: using libuv
[23:32] Brandon_R_: or libeio
[23:32] Brandon_R_: so many libs
[23:32] AvianFlu: how's your c?
[23:33] AvianFlu: the first advice given on the subject at node camp was "Don't."
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[23:34] kurmangazy: I grabbed an addon that added libexpat bindings, and it seemed pretty simple and well-done. you may want to look at that one
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[23:39] Brandon_R_: i know it well enough
[23:39] Brandon_R_: so avianflu
[23:40] Brandon_R_: have you ever written a c++ addon for node using libuv?
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[23:43] AvianFlu: no, but there are some examples floating around
[23:44] AvianFlu: there was a big conversation about them at node conf summer camp a month or so ago
[23:44] AvianFlu: there are a lot of complications involved
[23:44] AvianFlu: and crossing from JS to C is an expensive thing to do
[23:44] AvianFlu: C/C++ I should say
[23:44] AvianFlu: the v8 API is where you really need to start
[23:44] AvianFlu: it's a lot of templatey C++
[23:45] AvianFlu: overloaded -> and *
[23:45] AvianFlu: stuff like that
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[23:46] kurmangazy: I'd much rather deal with a competently-designed interface in C over C++
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[23:48] ryanolds_wrap: For the guys in here earlier: https://plus.google.com/107587338000803586757/posts/iUiwpKJ4gHw
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[23:51] AvianFlu: yeah, C++ has its uses, but I really like C as well kurmangazy 
[23:52] AvianFlu: the stuff they do with templates, though, would probably be more complicated in C
[23:52] AvianFlu: they being v8
[23:52] AvianFlu: v8 does a lot of crazy shit that's beyond my pay grade
[23:53] kurmangazy: when I'm trying to code something in an OOP language, I find myself spending time trying to come up with some sort of beautiful class architecture, instead of trying to solve actual problems.
[23:53] tmzt: kurmangazy: be nice to have a choice, I would probably have written a few native things if it allowed them to be written in c as well as c++
[23:54] tmzt: there's already libffi though
[23:54] AvianFlu: I like prototypes in JS for that reason, kurmangazy 
[23:54] AvianFlu: also... I *think* you could write C and then only write your glue in C++
[23:54] AvianFlu: for a node extension
[23:55] Brandon_R_: so
[23:55] Brandon_R_: any of those examples floating around u can point me too
[23:55] Brandon_R_: tried googling
[23:55] Brandon_R_: just hello world examples and no libuv
[23:56] kurmangazy: AvianFlu: I haven't made up my mind on whether prototypes make the situation better
[23:56] AvianFlu: https://github.com/joyent/libuv readme Brandon_R_ ?
[23:56] Brandon_R_: woah
[23:56] AvianFlu: kurmangazy, less thinking than classes if you need instances of something
[23:56] Brandon_R_: why is my name Brandon_R_
[23:56] AvianFlu: you probably disconnected
[23:56] AvianFlu: and your other name hadn't timed out yet
[23:57] kurmangazy: I haven't written lots of js, but getting rid of classes and interfaces has got to be a big improvement
[23:57] AvianFlu: old-school, lamentable IRC problem
[23:57] AvianFlu: kurmangazy, prototypical inheritance is simpler
[23:57] AvianFlu: you have your "constructor", basically just a function that gives you a new whatever, and then prototype properties and methods
[23:57] AvianFlu: make a new one, it has them already
[23:57] AvianFlu: don't expose what you don't want to expose
[23:58] AvianFlu: still an object, less thinking
[23:58] Tprice: when i post multipart/form-data from node to php what encode should my files be?
[23:58] AvianFlu: application/json?
[23:58] kurmangazy: but is that an improvement over a weakly-typed procedural language, like PHP (without classes)
[23:58] Tprice: should it be base64?
[23:58] AvianFlu: I'd rather write JS than PHP, any day
[23:58] AvianFlu: JS is much more functional
[23:59] AvianFlu: prototypes in particular might not give you much over php, but JS, I think, does
[23:59] kurmangazy: that's true. PHP doesn't have much functional features.
[23:59] AvianFlu: functions as first class objects is one of the big wins
[23:59] AvianFlu: really, really cheap recursion among other things, compared to some other languages/vms