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[00:27] mrdoodles: i just saw those messages sorry. the amount of time spent shopping for parts  and building a machine (unless its a storage/raid device) isn't worth it.
[00:27] mrdoodles: time = money
[00:28] jerrysv: mrdoodles: and sometimes even storage/raid is way too painful
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[00:28] mrdoodles: yeah i was going hypothetical on that one :P
[00:29] mrdoodles: the value for my time, or any devs is worth more than setting up your own machine
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[00:45] dmkbot: joyent/node: Shahor: hash.update fails on second call (https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/749 Seen) - https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/1415
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[01:05] Marak: anyone want to play with a troll? https://github.com/Marak/node_mailer/pull/46
[01:05] Marak: im a little busy for that :-D
[01:06] Nexxy: does it come with a comb I can brush its hair with?
[01:06] Nexxy: and a gem in its belly button?
[01:06] Nexxy: if not, I'm not interested.
[01:06] AvianFlu: Nexxy++
[01:06] v8bot_:  AvianFlu has given a beer to Nexxy. Nexxy now has 6 beers.
[01:06] catb0t: Nexxy now has 1 beer
[01:06] Nexxy: 
ACTION proceeds to get dickered.

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[01:19] dynacker: :-)
[01:20] Nexxy: (=
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[01:20] sorensen: =)
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[01:21] Nuck: I have too much shit on my laptop haha
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[01:23] CIA-30: libuv: 03Igor Zinkovsky 07master * rcfa1423 10/ (src/uv-common.h src/win/error.c src/win/fs.c test/test-fs.c): fix fs_file_noent on windows - http://git.io/CmLRIg
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[01:25] dmkbot: joyent/node: dhx71: chunked & keep-alive - https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/940
[01:26] jmoiron: what's the standard way of having a handler depend on two separate events?
[01:26] Nuck: jmoiron: Create a function, set it to a variable or name it, pass it to two event bindings
[01:27] mrryanjohnston: anyone here really familiar with vows?
[01:27] jmoiron: Nuck: won't that just call the function twice
[01:27] Nexxy: I don't think there is a "standard"
[01:27] mrryanjohnston: I'm trying to run `node gametest.js --spec` but it's not showing me the nice little checkmarks like it does on the vow's site :(
[01:27] mrryanjohnston: just ✓ OK » 2 honored (0.002s)
[01:27] jmoiron: that's not what i want;  i want something to run only when two async events have been received
[01:27] Nexxy: jmoiron, you want it to listen for multiple events?
[01:28] jeninto: jmoiron - try a third function that runs on an interval that will check to see if both conditions have been met? and if they are run the function that you would want to execute?
[01:28] jmoiron: yeah, n-events;  so say i want to connect to 3 different resources, and then start some process after those connections are established
[01:28] Nuck: Ah, waiting for two events
[01:28] Nexxy: jmoiron, is that something async could help with?
[01:28] jmoiron: but then that's just polling
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[01:28] Nexxy: async.parallel
[01:28] Nuck: Yeah, I use async.js for that
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[01:29] jmoiron: i don't know a great deal about the 'node' way of doing things which is why i'm asking..  i think i was looking at async.js before, but i can take another look
[01:29] Nuck: Vertice: /user/1337? Was that an accident?
[01:29] Vertice: Nuck: yeah
[01:29] Vertice: i forgot i still have drupal on my sig tho
[01:29] Nuck: Vertice: Well, epic win either way
[01:29] Vertice: *kill it with fire*
[01:30] Vertice: heh. thanks
[01:30] jmoiron: https://github.com/caolan/async#parallel  that looks about right, cool;  thanks :)
[01:30] Vertice: i found a nifty way to do stuff like that using only underscore
[01:30] Nuck: eww underscore?
[01:31] Nuck: async FTW
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[01:31] Vertice: https://gist.github.com/8ebc64ca248a4a053100
[01:31] Nuck: underscore always seemed rather browsery
[01:31] Vertice: i dunno. i find those async libraries are sometimes a sledgehammer when you sometimes need a toothpick
[01:32] mrryanjohnston: nevermind, got it
[01:32] Nuck: async.js is pretty lightweight
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[01:32] Nuck: I use it for the async forEach and such mostly
[01:32] Nuck: Helps protect against nesting
[01:33] Nuck: I can handle nesting, but when it gets to the point where I'm debating switching from 4-width to 3-width tabs, it's too far :P
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[01:37] Nuck: God Gnome 3.0 is such a shitty thing
[01:38] Nuck: Just looking at the screenshots, the concept is completely wrong
[01:38] bnoordhuis: real men use ratpoison
[01:38] Nuck: I'll probably just stick to Unity, it's a good middleground between the Mac style UI and what I have on Windows 7
[01:39] Nuck: (I even have my task bar at left)
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[01:39] Vertice: i installed ubuntu in vmware the other day
[01:39] Nexxy: Vertice, you did it backwards ._.
[01:39] Vertice: my dsl went down, and my older android phone wouldnt tether to osx (strangely it was microsoft's fault, i promise)
[01:39] Vertice: so i ended up working on ubuntu for the day, in vmware, since i could be dicked to set up a proper proxy 
[01:39] Vertice: couldnt
[01:40] Vertice: i was actually very pleased with it
[01:40] Nuck: WTF kind of Android has Microsoft in it?
[01:40] Vertice: well. microsoft 'embraced and extended' the usb standard
[01:40] Vertice: when they introduced the tethering stuff used by winmobile phones
[01:40] Vertice: which htc / google implemented in android 1.x
[01:40] Vertice: which apple didnt implement because it wasnt a real standard
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[01:41] Nuck: hahaha
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[01:41] Vertice: linux of course had no such issues
[01:41] Nuck: Android doesn't support Apple-style tethering?
[01:41] Vertice: the tethering was literally plug and play
[01:41] Vertice: on ubuntu
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[01:41] Nuck: Ubuntu is pretty good about such things nowadays
[01:41] Vertice: not apple style
[01:41] Nuck: The stuff used by iPhone I mean
[01:42] Vertice: android (a tt least my htc) did windows style tethering
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[01:42] Vertice: which apple didnt support
[01:42] Vertice: i dont know what the hell the iphone does
[01:42] Vertice: it's probably fucking ridiculous
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[01:42] Vertice: *rolls eyes*
[01:42] Nuck: When I first tried it on my old Acer, that was... 8.04? And I remember it didn't support my WiFi card
[01:42] Nuck: Vertice: I have an iPhone
[01:42] Nuck: I'm quite happy
[01:42] CarterL: love my iphone
[01:42] Vertice: i have an ipad
[01:42] Vertice: i get pissed off by the bullshit limitations
[01:43] Vertice: that exist only to protect their fucking business model
[01:43] Vertice: and i want to fucking set FIRE to the mac app store
[01:43] Nuck: Vertice: I don't, I rarely run into these limitations on things.
[01:43] Nuck: Lion sounds like shit though
[01:43] Vertice: really, you like having to re-encode any video you put on it ?
[01:43] garann: anyone know why i might be getting a "domain not found" error trying to authenticate to the github v3 api?
[01:43] Vertice: lest you have any video not sanctioned by quicktime and stored in itunes
[01:43] Nuck: Vertice: Honestly, if it's not in MPEG-4, there's an issue
[01:44] Nuck: Or even in a format iPhone supports for a <video> tag
[01:44] Nuck: There's plenty of formats iOS supports, and I think it's understandable that they don't support old, shitty video formats.
[01:44] Nuck: I'd pick MP4 over AVI or WMV any day
[01:44] Vertice: my samsung galaxy s2 allowed me to watch an entire season of a tv show in .avi that i just dropped on there
[01:44] Vertice: on a plane ride
[01:44] Nuck: I don't know anyone who actually still uses AVI or WMV still
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[01:45] Nuck: Most downloads are in MPEG-4 or MKV these days
[01:45] Nuck: 
ACTION <3 MKV

[01:45] Vertice: iphone doesnt play that
[01:45] Nuck: And MKV is a great container format
[01:45] Vertice: avi is just a container
[01:45] Nuck: Aye, but it plays most of the formats people put in MKV
[01:46] Vertice: sure. but it's shit like that , that pissed me off
[01:46] Nuck: Generally they use open standards these days
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[01:46] Nuck: AVI is just a shitty format
[01:46] Vertice: or the fact that i have to register to download free software
[01:46] Nuck: MKV is the modern container
[01:46] Nuck: Meh, I'm used to registering for things
[01:46] Nuck: Hence why I have an old gmail I use for spam shit
[01:47] Nuck: And my Yahoo!, for even spammier
[01:47] Vertice: i have a lot of mkv's too
[01:47] Vertice: anyway
[01:47] Nuck: (I don't even check that anymore)
[01:47] Nuck: MKV is godly
[01:47] Nuck: It's DVD-level capabilities
[01:47] Vertice: i ended up needing several different apple accounts, because it kept on shunting me through the south african and us applestores
[01:47] Vertice: the first of which is barely populated
[01:47] Vertice: and doesn't have a free tier
[01:47] Nuck: Vertice: South Africa?
[01:47] Nuck: lolwat
[01:47] Vertice: you _HAVE_ to add a credit card to get an account
[01:47] Vertice: yeah
[01:47] Nuck: 
ACTION is in the US

[01:47] Vertice: i live in south africa, work in the us
[01:48] Nuck: Oh, I have a credit card
[01:48] Vertice: i'm on a business trip
[01:48] Vertice: yeah. so do i
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[01:48] Vertice: but i _resent_ having to enter it to create an account to get free shit
[01:48] Nuck: When I first got my iPhone, I didn't, but my mom just entered hers.
[01:48] Nuck: A month later, I got my card in the mail, and I switched it over
[01:48] isaacs: Hey, I forget how SetInternalFieldCount actually works.  You just need to SetInternalFieldCount(1) for ObjectWrap objects, right?
[01:48] konobi: 
ACTION demands a node.js bases xbmc clone

[01:49] isaacs: bnoordhuis: you know offhand?
[01:49] Vertice: konobi: whatever for
[01:49] konobi: hackability
[01:49] konobi: =0)
[01:49] Vertice: boxee is pretty decent imo
[01:49] Nuck: konobi: OMIGODICAME
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[01:49] Nuck: konobi: That'd be badass
[01:49] bnoordhuis: isaacs: yes, that's correct
[01:49] isaacs: ok
[01:49] konobi: using webkit? so it's just a web frontend?
[01:49] Vertice: god. i am being so cynical tonight
[01:49] Vertice: i think i am going to log off before i stab something 
[01:49] Vertice: =)
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[01:50] konobi: Nuck: problem would be how to do all the video stuff... *shrug*
[01:51] Nuck: konobi: HTML5?
[01:51] Nuck: Create a Node.js video conversion lib, if SubStack hasn't already
[01:51] konobi: lack of codec support
[01:51] Nuck: konobi: See prior message :P
[01:52] konobi: and for example, my htpc has built in HW acceleration for video decoding... may as well use it properly
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[01:52] Nuck: konobi: Do they not use HW accelerated video decoders in browsers yet?
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[01:53] konobi: i doubt it... or not to the full extent that you could get with ffmpeg or mplayer
[01:53] Nuck: It shouldn't be too hard to transcode for HTML5 video, if you use the various convertor programs in tandem.
[01:53] Nexxy: woah woah woah
[01:53] Nuck: Chaining the various convertors to get from point A to point B is no new concept
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[01:54] qwfwq: anyone want to help me install node on windows 7?
[01:54] konobi: Nuck: how about sending DTS via hdmi, but doing stereo conversion for AAC?
[01:54] konobi: =0)
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[01:55] Nuck: konobi: Ideally, we'd want to wrap it in a sexy UI, and that's not as easy when you call directly on the video output
[01:55] chrisdickinson: isaacs: out of curiosity, what's the state of node-find?
[01:55] Nuck: Plus CSS3 skinning for an HTPC?  Fuck yeah
[01:55] Nuck: 3D transforms, man.
[01:55] isaacs: chrisdickinson: it's in a pile of half-built toys crying for my attention.
[01:56] isaacs: chrisdickinson: substack's findit is much more done.
[01:56] Nuck: isaacs: haha I know that feeling
[01:56] konobi: Nuck: go forth and code!
[01:56] garann: anybody got *any* hints about what might cause a "domain name not found" error?
[01:56] chrisdickinson: isaacs: ah yes, the "island of misfit toys" pile.
[01:56] chrisdickinson: cool, thanks for the tip.
[01:56] joshkehn has joined the channel
[01:56] isaacs: chrisdickinson: np :)
[01:56] Nuck: konobi: Busy backing shit up so I can get Ubuntu on my laptop :P
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[01:56] mrryanjohnston: garann: dn not registered with a registrar? :)
[01:56] qwfwq: any hints to remedy make: *** [program] Error 1
[01:56] chrisdickinson: 
ACTION wonders prematurely if findit of them have a pluggable "fs"

[01:56] chrisdickinson: s/of them have/has/g
[01:56] garann: mrryanjohnston: heh, if only
[01:57] garann: looks like github is resolving just fine outside of node :)
[01:57] mrryanjohnston: garann: what are you trying to hit?
[01:57] garann: https://github.com
[01:57] jchris has joined the channel
[01:57] garann: per http://developer.github.com/v3/oauth/
[01:57] Nexxy: you has ssl support?
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[01:58] garann: Nexxy: seems to work fine when i hit https://api.github.com, so i assume so?
[01:58] Nuck: garann: Try www.github.com?
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[01:59] garann: Nuck: it doesn't like that, "connection refused"
[01:59] Nuck: hmm
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[02:00] aaronblohowiak: SubStack: browserling isnt loading pages =/
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[02:03] Nuck: Deleting about 6 GB from my laptop :D
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[02:04] Nuck: So I basically just need Windows still for 3 things: (1) games (2) iTunes (3) Photoshop
[02:05] mrryanjohnston: lol itunes
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[02:05] mrryanjohnston: you so crazy
[02:05] chjj: whats up with number 2?
[02:05] Nuck: I have an iPhone
[02:05] chjj: yeah
[02:05] Nuck: It needs updates
[02:05] mrryanjohnston: you need itunes to update the iphone?
[02:05] chjj: theres a solution to that you know
[02:05] chjj: dont have an iphone
[02:05] Nuck: chjj: Thanks, I'll keep my nice phone
[02:05] RyanW: iOS5 does over the air updates
[02:05] mrryanjohnston: nothing wrong with having an iphone. Seems a little silly to have itunes solely to update the iphone
[02:06] mrryanjohnston: since itunes is such a hog
[02:06] Nuck: RyanW: And I can't wait for that :D
[02:06] Nuck: mrryanjohnston: Well, I also like iTunes itself
[02:06] RyanW: I've been using it for a while, it's pretty good
[02:06] Nuck: But honestly, I barely even use iTunes itself these days
[02:06] Nuck: Not since I got my iPhone
[02:06] RyanW: wifi sync is nice too. I don't need to take my phone out of my pocket.
[02:06] mrryanjohnston: Nuck: you truly enjoy using itunes
[02:06] mrryanjohnston: ?
[02:07] Nuck: RyanW: I want iOS 5 so much, so I can't wait.
[02:07] Nuck: mrryanjohnston: On Windows, yes.
[02:07] mrryanjohnston: i'm not trying ot be a smartass. I'm just really surprised
[02:07] RyanW: I think i'll be out next month with iPhone 5
[02:07] joshkehn has joined the channel
[02:07] RyanW: it'll*
[02:07] Nuck: It's a breath of fresh air compared to most other media players on Windows
[02:07] tiagobutzke_ has joined the channel
[02:07] Nuck: Winamp has a shitty UI (it looks like the nineties never went out of style)
[02:07] Nuck: And WMP is, well, WMP.
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[02:08] Nuck: It's just plain shitty
[02:08] mrryanjohnston: mpd owns.
[02:08] joshkehn: Winamp? Who uses winamp?
[02:08] RyanW: I used to love winamp. Never liked WMP
[02:08] Nuck: joshkehn: And oddly high number of people.
[02:08] Nuck: Bothers me too
[02:08] RyanW: I haven't used windows for yyears though
[02:08] mrryanjohnston: http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/Music_Player_Daemon_Wiki
[02:08] mrryanjohnston: best ^
[02:08] Nuck: Sounds like a client with a bad UI judging by the name
[02:09] mrryanjohnston: Nuck: there is no ui unless you download one
[02:09] RyanW: no UI
[02:09] mrryanjohnston: >:)
[02:09] Nuck: Haha figured as much
[02:09] Nuck: I need a GUI
[02:09] mrryanjohnston: *sniff* ah so young
[02:09] RyanW: You should get ViTunes
[02:09] mrryanjohnston: 
ACTION wipes a tear away

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[02:09] RyanW: control itunes from vim
[02:09] Nuck: Nah, I don't use vim
[02:10] Nuck: Not my thing, modal editing
[02:10] dynacker: nuck nuck nuck
[02:10] RyanW: All hope is lost.
[02:10] Nuck: I can see how somebody could like it, but I've never been a fan of memorizing things
[02:10] Sorella: Nuck, You could use Emacs and emms.
[02:10] Nuck: I mostly just memorize how to figure something out
[02:11] Nuck: I'm gonna hafta find myself a new GUI text editor on Ubuntu :P
[02:11] Sorella: Nuck, Emacs has a GUI. So does Vim :3
[02:11] Nuck: I've used Kate before, but the GUI looks like somebody took a picture of their toilet after making a quite grotesque pweep.
[02:11] Sorella: I don't think there's any other GUI editor which is really worth checking, if you're serious on programming.
[02:11] mrryanjohnston: geany
[02:12] Nuck: I sue Sublime Text 2 on Windows right now
[02:12] mrryanjohnston: 'swat I use while I learn vim.
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[02:12] Sorella: mrryanjohnston, you mean that Genie thing?
[02:12] mrryanjohnston: Sorella: http://www.geany.org/
[02:13] mrryanjohnston: ps I don't know if you can say "serious" programmers only use vim/emacs/etc
[02:13] mrryanjohnston: I think a lot of good guys use textmate or whatever it is on mac
[02:13] mrryanjohnston: er
[02:13] mrryanjohnston: node guys
[02:13] mrryanjohnston: though I guess good could be applied, too
[02:13] Nuck: Sublime Text 2 is great for on Windows, because it's a Mac app that has a Windows version
[02:13] Nuck: Which is like, fucking sexy.
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[02:14] Nuck: I do yearn for textmate
[02:14] Nuck: OMGOMGOMGOMG
[02:14] chjj: no wonder nuck likes macs, he wants a giant iphone on his desk
[02:14] Nuck: SUBLIME TEXT WORKS ON LINUX
[02:14] Nuck: 
ACTION squees

[02:14] Sorella: hm, apparently it's written in C. I could swear it was written in Genie/Vala. Perhaps I'm just confounding it with something else.
[02:14] Nuck: chjj: I like my computer to make love to my face.
[02:14] chjj: my computer does that
[02:15] Nuck: I want a Mac because it's beautiful and usable
[02:15] Sorella: Linux is also beautiful and usable.
[02:15] Nuck: It surrounds me in good designs, which in turn makes me want to make good designs
[02:15] Sorella: usually more usable than beautiful.
[02:15] Nuck: Sorella: bahahahaha nice joke
[02:15] Nuck: I almost thought you were serious
[02:15] Sorella: 
ACTION is.

[02:15] jmoiron: I use both but I'm more comfortable in linux
[02:15] Nuck: Then I saw you say "usable" and I realized you were trolling.
[02:16] Nexxy: Nuck, you're forgetting that GNU/Linux is NOT a Window Manager again
[02:16] Nuck: Nice try though
[02:16] chjj: nexxy++
[02:16] v8bot_:  chjj has given a beer to nexxy. nexxy now has 1 beers.
[02:16] catb0t: Nexxy now has 1 beer
[02:16] aaronblohowiak: no mention of node the past 15 minutes, can we get back on topic please?
[02:16] aaronblohowiak: ^.^
[02:16] Nexxy: aaronblohowiak, I don't really thing off-topic is an issue, do you?
[02:16] Lorentz: Does node run on plan9
[02:16] chjj: nuck if you want linux to be beautiful, hack the hell out of whatever wm and gtk theme you want
[02:16] Lorentz: I don't even run plan9, but just curious
[02:16] fg3 has joined the channel
[02:16] Nuck: aaronblohowiak: When there's something to talk about on-topic, we'll be on-topic :P
[02:16] Charuru has joined the channel
[02:16] Nexxy: I mean unless you were trying to discuss something topical and people are giving you too much line noise
[02:17] Nuck: chjj: Haha, that's removing usability though
[02:17] aaronblohowiak: ah, good point
[02:17] chjj: how so?
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[02:17] aaronblohowiak: okay, i'll head out then.
[02:17] Nexxy: don't go ;<
[02:17] Nexxy: we love you!
[02:17] chjj: if anything it adds usability over the oversimplified ui of a mac
[02:17] d0k has joined the channel
[02:17] chjj: you can make it anyway you want
[02:17] Sorella: Nuck, Linux is usable. Period. About WMs, awesome is usable, but not really beautiful. Enlightenment is beautiful, but not really usable.
[02:17] aaronblohowiak: :D thanks, nexxy
[02:17] Nuck: That's the catch with Linux.  To make it more usable you sacrifice beauty but to make it more beautiful you sacrifice usability.
[02:17] Nexxy: lol Nuck 
[02:17] Nexxy: features and eye candy are not diametrically opposed
[02:17] Lorentz: Sorella: pffffft how the hell is enlightenment not usable
[02:17] Nexxy: I'm not sure where you got that notion
[02:17] Nexxy: but it's sorely misinformed
[02:17] Sorella: Lorentz, the tiling module is buggy as hell.
[02:18] Nuck: Nexxy: Nobody in the Linux community seems to accept that they aren't though
[02:18] Nexxy: blue-tile + gnome is great IMHO
[02:18] Lorentz: That's assuming enlightenment is a tiling wm
[02:18] Sorella: the systray doesn't work, because raster keeps complaining about the specs (or lack thereof)
[02:18] Sorella: and other stuff.
[02:18] Nuck: You have to pick between one or the other when you pick your WM and whatnot
[02:18] Sorella: Lorentz, nope :3
[02:18] Nexxy: Nuck, I think you're mistaking the Linux community's lack of care
[02:18] Sorella: It's a good WM though, albeit still alpha.
[02:18] Nuck: Nexxy: I know they don't care
[02:18] Nuck: That's the problem
[02:18] chjj: dont care?
[02:18] Nexxy: I mean compiz/beryl
[02:19] RyanW: I used Enlightenment back in the 90s
[02:19] Nexxy: are purrrdy
[02:19] Nuck: Linux users seem not to care that they've got either beauty or usability.
[02:19] Nexxy: desktop cube anyone?
[02:19] Nuck: Nexxy: I agree, they are purdy.
[02:19] chrisdickinson: i just like the construction of apple laptops, personally. linux vs osx is kind of a lesser deal for me.
[02:19] mrryanjohnston: lol@ desktop cube
[02:19] chjj: 
ACTION doesnt like compiz, /me wishes there were more lightweight compositors

[02:19] mrryanjohnston: what are you guys running if you're on linux?
[02:19] jmoiron: chrisdickinson: i agree, though i still have a preference
[02:19] mrryanjohnston: just curious
[02:19] Nexxy: mrryanjohnston, come on don't pretend you didn't play with it for like 4 minutes
[02:19] Lorentz: I knew a guy who loves the cube
[02:19] mrryanjohnston: Nexxy: honestly I didn't :x
[02:19] secoif: hey when I'm using `spawn`, I'm having trouble using a command passing a path like: /test/* 
[02:19] Nexxy: pfffff
[02:19] mrryanjohnston: Nexxy: does that make me a bad person
[02:19] Nuck: Problem with Linux is that they allowed programmers to do UI designs.
[02:19] Nexxy: maybe ;3
[02:19] chrisdickinson: they both work -- and work well -- i just don't want to go back to the dark, dark days of owning a mid-2004 dell inspiron
[02:19] Nuck: That's like, a crime.
[02:19] mrryanjohnston: Nexxy: heh
[02:19] secoif: the * gets passed literally
[02:19] Nexxy: Nuck, freedom is never a crime
[02:20] Sorella: mrryanjohnston, what do you mean by "running". I'm running plenty of things.
[02:20] mrryanjohnston: Nexxy: I was starting in on tiling wms. So >:)
[02:20] chjj: nuck: thats the only way it should be done, i hate designer-only types
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[02:20] Nuck: Programmers should never design
[02:20] Nuck: That's a horrible idea
[02:20] Nexxy: mrryanjohnston, tiling is the only way to go when it comes to hardcore productivity
[02:20] mrryanjohnston: Sorella: distribution, wm, terminal of choice
[02:20] Nuck: They always put all their favorite features at the front
[02:20] secoif: I'm assuming the * is something to do with the bash shell
[02:20] chrisdickinson: 
ACTION considers removing osx and installing WM-less arch linux on his mbp

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[02:20] RyanW: We have a programmer+designer guy, he's very good
[02:20] Nuck: programmer+designer guys are great
[02:20] Nexxy: devsign ftw
[02:20] chjj: nuck: thats what i just said
[02:20] Nuck: And I am completely biased on that, being one myself.
[02:21] Sorella: mrryanjohnston, oh. Ubuntu Natty, with awesome, gnome-terminal. I use Arch with e17 and I-dont-remember-the-terminal.
[02:21] Sorella: s/I use/I also use/
[02:21] Nexxy: I use byobu
[02:21] Nexxy: that's it.
[02:21] Nuck: There's a difference between a designer/developer and a developer who tries to design but sucks massively at it
[02:21] RyanW: byobu rocks. I had my own insane screenrc before that came out
[02:21] mrryanjohnston: Sorella: word. I'm on arch/swm/urxvt muhself
[02:21] mrryanjohnston: owns/
[02:21] Nexxy: Nuck, yeah; about 10,000 hours of experience
[02:22] Nuck: Nexxy: Experience means shit when their core ideas are mistaken
[02:22] Nexxy: oh dear
[02:22] Sorella: mrryanjohnston, swm?
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[02:22] Nuck: When they organize the features in a way that is appealing only to the programmers, there's an issue
[02:23] Sorella: Nuck, why?
[02:23] Nuck: And programmers who try to design but suck tend to do just that
[02:23] chjj: who is "they" again?
[02:23] chjj: right, the evil programmers
[02:23] mrryanjohnston: Sorella: dwm**
[02:23] mrryanjohnston: sorry
[02:23] Nexxy: chjj, the indefinite they that most suit his point
[02:23] Sorella: oh, okay.
[02:23] Nuck: There are some great epople who do both though
[02:23] jmoiron: i can't believe people still care about this stuff
[02:23] Nexxy: chjj, I would have thought you'd be hip to it by now ;P
[02:23] chjj: 
ACTION is not hip

[02:23] Nexxy: there's always an amorphous concept of "they" floating about when Nuck gets on his soap box
[02:23] Nuck: I actually prefer these "devsigners" more than most people
[02:24] mrryanjohnston: nice
[02:24] Nuck: Though I do respect some design-only people, the ones who can work in tandem with a programmer and still know their backend somewhat
[02:24] Sorella: awesome engineers tend to be awesome designers as well, albeit not graphical ones.
[02:25] Nuck: And there's folks like Mike Kus who do some absolutely breathtaking things.
[02:25] mykul|Home has left the channel
[02:25] Nuck: Dunno if he can code, I'm actually sorta curious
[02:25] JakeyChan has joined the channel
[02:25] Nexxy: I wish you'd go do some breathtaking things ;3
[02:25] Nexxy: and spare us the hot air
[02:25] Nexxy: ;P
[02:25] Nuck: Either way, Sublime Text 2 is on Linux
[02:25] Nuck: 
ACTION squees

[02:25] jmoiron: there's an aesthetic element to program design, i think
[02:25] Nuck: certainly
[02:25] Nuck: Programming is an art
[02:26] Wa has joined the channel
[02:26] Nexxy: a art*
[02:26] Nexxy: ^-^
[02:26] Sorella: Except PHP programming.
[02:26] mrryanjohnston: Sorella: ouch
[02:26] Nexxy: it's still art, just more akin to finger painting
[02:26] Nuck: Nexxy: Starts with a vowel, so no.
[02:26] Nuck: It's "an"
[02:26] Nuck: At least, in American English.
[02:26] Sorella: Nexxy, haha :3
[02:26] Nuck: Nexxy: Haha
[02:26] Nuck: Nexxy++
[02:26] v8bot_:  Nuck has given a beer to Nexxy. Nexxy now has 7 beers.
[02:26] catb0t: Nexxy now has 1 beer
[02:26] Nexxy: lol
[02:26] Nexxy: troll'd ;/
[02:26] Nexxy: http://i.imgur.com/u3fYE.jpg
[02:27] mrryanjohnston: people have forgotten the meaning of troll
[02:27] mrryanjohnston: it makes me sad
[02:27] bnoordhuis: well played, miss
[02:27] mrryanjohnston: makes me sad panda
[02:27] Nuck: Nexxy: I often put ANSI color codes in the middle of my programs, just to make them artsier.
[02:27] rhio has joined the channel
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[02:27] Nuck: That trollface creeps me out
[02:27] Nexxy: I like to pretend my var declarations are like ikebana
[02:27] jmoiron: i've not messed with my wm/terminal/editor/etc in years..  it's not that i don't care how they look, i'm just satisfied
[02:27] Nuck: When it's that huge
[02:28] JakeyChan has joined the channel
[02:28] chjj: youre making the assumption that adding color equals art though, kind of a metaphor for your entire opinion i think
[02:28] Nuck: 
ACTION should start naming his variables in emoji

[02:28] Wa has joined the channel
[02:28] Sorella: jmoiron, that's the first thing you should be worried about: being satisfied with all your tools. You should experiment with new stuff every once in a while.
[02:29] davidascher has joined the channel
[02:29] necrodearia has joined the channel
[02:29] Nuck: I agree, Sorella
[02:29] RyanW: my screen session can't do emoji for some reason
[02:29] cjm has left the channel
[02:29] Nuck: That's part of why I'm looking to move to Linux
[02:29] chjj: nuck: thats why you should experiment with vim ;p
[02:29] Nuck: It seems like a better tool than Windows
[02:29] Nuck: chjj: Haha, for now, I'll use Sublime Text 2
[02:29] mrryanjohnston: better is in the eye of the programmer.
[02:30] mrryanjohnston: just sayin'.
[02:30] Nuck: It'll make Linux feel a bit more like home
[02:30] Sorella: Nuck, depends on what you're doing.
[02:30] jmoiron: i see no reason to ditch vim
[02:30] Nexxy: mrryanjohnston, you misspelled "bitter"
[02:30] mrryanjohnston: Nexxy: you are a word smith
[02:30] Nuck: Sorella: Mostly programming, these days.
[02:30] Nexxy: why thank you <3
[02:30] chjj: i believed its spelled "bittre"
[02:30] Nexxy: you mean aside from your endless rants?
[02:30] chjj: as in "lolbittre"
[02:30] Nuck: I do design, though, so I'll keep Photoshop on Windows 7 dual-booted
[02:30] jmoiron: i work on my actual vim setup on occasion, either adding/modifying plugins, or picking up new habits
[02:30] Sorella: then yes. Specially if it's C programming.
[02:30] Nuck: Nexxy: Yes, that too
[02:31] mrryanjohnston: jmoiron: you've already reached the end of the pathway. you're one step away from thinking the lines and having them appear on screen
[02:31] Nuck: Sorella: Well, I don't do C :P
[02:31] Lorentz: Nuck: Why dual boot when you can virtualbox
[02:31] Sorella: Node also counts :3
[02:31] Nuck: I do JS for the most part, rarely venture beyond
[02:31] Nexxy: photoshop in virtualbox is painful
[02:31] Nuck: I would imagine so
[02:31] JaKWaC has joined the channel
[02:31] Lorentz: How is it painful
[02:31] chjj: always keeping a dual boot for windows is terrible, i have 100gb im not using ;)
[02:31] joshkehn has joined the channel
[02:31] Nuck: I also take advantage of a dual-screen setup for Photoshop, and I iamgine that'd SUCK with VirtualBox
[02:31] Nexxy: especially if your laptop is one of those ghetto rigs that has VT disabled 
[02:31] mrryanjohnston: chjj: did you appropriate 100gb to a vm?
[02:32] Nuck: I keep my layers and such on my right screen
[02:32] Lorentz: Nexxy: Time to upgrade then
[02:32] mrryanjohnston: did I understand that right
[02:32] jmoiron: mrryanjohnston: well.. whenever i perceive some friction, i try to acknowledge and fix it..  but otherwise i don't really rock the boat
[02:32] Nexxy: Lorentz, mine has it ;3
[02:32] Prometheus has joined the channel
[02:32] chjj: mrryanjohnston: sorry? no, i have a dual boot setup
[02:32] Lorentz: So does mine, and it's from 2008 or something
[02:32] Nexxy: but for a while a few manufacturers were shipping w/ VT off and no option in the bios
[02:32] mrryanjohnston: chjj: ohh oh oh.
[02:32] mrryanjohnston: my bad
[02:32] secoif: is there a way to npm install --save for dev dependencies?
[02:32] chjj: :)
[02:32] isaacs: secoif: tack a --dev on there
[02:32] tuhoojabotti: mornin'
[02:33] secoif: @isaacs :D
[02:33] secoif: @isaacs there's no docs for --save yet are there?
[02:33] mrryanjohnston: what should be the difference between deps and regular --save modules?
[02:33] isaacs: secoif: http://npmjs.org/doc/config.html#save
[02:34] tuhoojabotti: secoif: My question is, have you adopted that weird mention style from Twitter or have you always done it?
[02:34] secoif: ahh I'm trying `npm help install`
[02:34] Nuck: chjj: I'm gonna partition to where I've got 4 partitions: (1) NTFS 25GB for Windows 7 (2) Shared FAT32 of 150GB (3) Linux-only partition (ext3 or ext4) of about 100GB (4) 25GB for the Linux OS, whatever the fuck it wants it to be
[02:34] isaacs: hm, i don't know if that's listed there
[02:34] Nuck: Mind you, those are only the ones I'll mount
[02:34] isaacs: secoif: feel free to edit doc/install.md and send a pull req
[02:34] Nexxy: Nuck, no swap?
[02:34] mrryanjohnston: Nuck: you'll need at least 1 partition for swap space
[02:34] Nexxy: define "need" lol
[02:34] Nuck: Nexxy: Yeah, I just didn't list that because I won't ever mount it
[02:35] sorensen has left the channel
[02:35] Nuck: Hence my comment of "just the ones I'll mount"
[02:35] mrryanjohnston: Nexxy: uh. heh. sometimes when a man loves a woman very very much, their memory leaks
[02:35] dmkbot: joyent/node: tshinnic: add positioned writing feature to fs.WriteStream - https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/1645
[02:35] tuhoojabotti: Nuck: Window's gonna cry when C-driver gets full. ;D
[02:35] chjj: nuck: yeah, i was gonna say, can you have 4 partitions + swap space?
[02:35] secoif: tuhoojabotti autocomplete did it for me, I just hit the @ since his nick appears with an @
[02:35] tristanp: I'm having an issue with ExpressJS using SSL.. whenever someone accesses my app via HTTP on the HTTPS port it crashes. I've added an unhandledException listener to catch it but I'm not sure where to handle that case? obviously I'd rather people not be able to crash the app with a simple curl command
[02:35] mrryanjohnston: chjj: yes. you could use extended partitions for this
[02:35] Nexxy: mrryanjohnston, pfff
[02:35] mrryanjohnston: er, logical.
[02:35] chjj: mrryanjohnston: roger
[02:35] tuhoojabotti: secoif: That's because he's and op, you don't need that. :D
[02:36] mrryanjohnston: or whatever they're called
[02:36] tuhoojabotti: an op*
[02:36] Nexxy: a op*
[02:36] Nexxy: oh wait I already did that one
[02:36] tristanp: Error: error:00000001:lib(0):func(0):reason(1)
[02:36] tristanp: is the error
[02:36] Nuck: Yeah, I'll probably have all the Linux parts in one actual partition, then just do logical parts on those
[02:36] tristanp:  at CleartextStream._pusher (tls.js:416:24)
[02:36] tuhoojabotti: teh op
[02:36] Nexxy: teh powah
[02:36] mrryanjohnston: Nuck: pretty sure you need swap on a physical.
[02:36] mrryanjohnston: I don't recall, though.
[02:36] tuhoojabotti: @_@
[02:36] tristanp: anyone have any pointers?
[02:37] secoif: tuhoojabotti that 'clicked' only a moment later
[02:37] bnoordhuis: tristanp: are you using an unsigned cert?
[02:37] tristanp: nope
[02:37] tristanp: extended validation cert
[02:37] bnoordhuis: tristanp: or rather, a self-signed cert?
[02:37] tristanp: have the CA bundles setup
[02:37] tuhoojabotti: It's 5:30, just ignore me.
[02:37] Nuck: mrryanjohnston: If that's the case, I can do three partitions: one linux, one Windows, one swap
[02:37] tristanp: everything looks fine when I'm accessing the page normally
[02:37] tristanp: as far as the cert goes I mean
[02:37] mrryanjohnston: Nuck: word
[02:37] sorensen has joined the channel
[02:37] mrryanjohnston: Nuck: look into it, though, I could be wrong.
[02:38] Nuck: mrryanjohnston: I'll see what Ubuntu lets me do ;)
[02:38] mrryanjohnston: I haven't done too much in the way of specifying more than defaults for my partition schemse in a while
[02:38] mrryanjohnston: Nuck: ubuntu should make it dead simple.
[02:38] Nuck: As for the 25GB for Windows, I doubt it'll fill that up
[02:38] tristanp: is there a specific place I should add an event listener for errors?
[02:38] tristanp: any way to have express/node handle non-http request on an https server?
[02:38] Dreamer3 has joined the channel
[02:38] Nuck: Windows itself is generally about 15GB by itself
[02:38] Nuck: And I'm pretty sure I can have Program Files on a second partition
[02:38] JumpMast3r has joined the channel
[02:38] tuhoojabotti: Nuck: Windows is good at collecting carbage.
[02:38] Nuck: Though, I might change the size otherwise
[02:38] tuhoojabotti: Little too good.
[02:39] Prometheus: garbage&
[02:39] Nuck: tuhoojabotti: Haha, that it is
[02:39] Nuck: I managed to brick Windows before by letting it install updates when it didn't have enough space
[02:39] tuhoojabotti: Prometheus: I told you to ignore me!
[02:39] bnoordhuis: tristanp: did you pass in a SecurePair yourself?
[02:39] chjj: so now we come to it: nuck, what distro are you planning on using?
[02:39] Nuck: IIRC, it overwrote some of the Registry
[02:39] bnoordhuis: tristanp: oh, and what version of openssl is node linked against?
[02:39] Nuck: chjj: Ubuntu 11.04
[02:39] tuhoojabotti: Nuck: I bet you found that amusing.
[02:39] tristanp: let me check
[02:39] chjj: i see
[02:39] Nexxy: oh you're going to just LOVE Unity
[02:39] Nuck: tuhoojabotti: I giggled
[02:39] chjj: yeah
[02:39] Nexxy: 
ACTION giggle

[02:39] Nuck: Nexxy: I've used it before
[02:39] mrryanjohnston: Nexxy: trollface.jpg
[02:39] CIA-30: libuv: 03Bert Belder 07master * r12e689d 10/ src/win/winapi.h : win: the ddk got the NTSTATUS_FROM_WIN32 wrong - http://git.io/6IoQXA
[02:39] chjj: nuck would love unity
[02:39] Nuck: It's a bit odd
[02:39] Nuck: But I can manage it
[02:40] Nexxy: oh
[02:40] chjj: haha
[02:40] Nexxy: wow
[02:40] secoif: isaacs what would be good if your build script somehow converted those html docs into manpages so they are never out of sync
[02:40] Nexxy: oookay then
[02:40] tuhoojabotti: Nexxy: unity wasn't that bad.
[02:40] Nuck: It's close enough to how I have my Windows set up, luckily
[02:40] tuhoojabotti: I'm used to a sidebar on windows too.
[02:40] Nexxy: tuhoojabotti, I'm supposed to be ignoring you and you're making it very difficult!
[02:40] Nuck: I've had my task bar at left for like 4-5 years now
[02:40] Nuck: The behavior of the icons in Unity kinda annoys me, admittedly
[02:40] tuhoojabotti: Actually it's rather easy, it goes something like this: /ignore tuhoojabotti 
[02:40] Nexxy: ;<
[02:40] Nexxy: I don't... do that
[02:41] Nuck: tuhoojabotti: The hard part is unignoring, at least on mIRC
[02:41] Nuck: Took me 10 minuts to figure that one out
[02:41] tuhoojabotti: Eww, mIRC.
[02:41] Prometheus: lol
[02:41] Prometheus: mIRC
[02:41] Prometheus: .
[02:41] Nexxy: wow you must have really wanted to know what I was saying ;o
[02:41] Nuck: Speaking of which, any good IRC clients on Linux that use a GUI
[02:41] Nexxy: xchat!
[02:41] Prometheus: no, use irssi
[02:41] Prometheus: =)
[02:41] tuhoojabotti: Nuck: gnome-terminal + irssi
[02:41] Prometheus: gui is for noobs
[02:41] tristanp: I'm just starting the expressjs app using app = express.createServer({key: '', cert: '', ca: ['','']})
[02:41] mrryanjohnston: weechat >
[02:41] Nuck: Heh, I may try irssi
[02:41] chjj: nuck: irssi or gtfo
[02:41] tuhoojabotti: irssi++
[02:41] v8bot_:  tuhoojabotti has given a beer to irssi. irssi now has 1 beers.
[02:41] Nexxy: irssi is great
[02:41] mrryanjohnston: no weechat >:)
[02:41] Nuck: Main reason I didn't use it on Windows was because dear god it's SHIT on here
[02:42] chjj: irssi is the epitome of human achievement in irc clients
[02:42] Nexxy: Nuck, that's why you install putty on windows
[02:42] tristanp: obviously with the info in those strings..
[02:42] tuhoojabotti: Nuck: irssi is NOT shit on Windows, terminal emulation is.
[02:42] Nexxy: and just SSH to the actual irssi instance
[02:42] Nexxy: on your VPS
[02:42] Nuck: Mostly because it uses cmd.exe yeah
[02:42] Nuck: VPSes are for Noobs
[02:42] tristanp: openssl 0.9.8e
[02:42] tuhoojabotti: Nuck: Does not.
[02:42] Nuck: 
ACTION built his own home server

[02:42] Nexxy: lol...
[02:42] secoif: actually, ignore that last statement.
[02:42] sorensen: just got on colloquy
[02:42] sorensen: nuck
[02:42] tuhoojabotti: Nuck: a cygwin+putty+irssi works. :D
[02:42] Nuck: tuhoojabotti: It inherits throught two layers
[02:42] sorensen: not bad when you adjust the settings
[02:43] Nuck: Sorella: Does Colloquy work on Linux?
[02:43] Nuck: Err, sorensen
[02:43] sorensen: yes
[02:43] Nuck: Oh, then fuck yeah
[02:43] tuhoojabotti: Also remote irc shell is nice, cuz you can use it anywhere
[02:43] sorensen: i assume so, its an osx app
[02:43] Nuck: 
ACTION uses Colloquy Mobile on his iPhone

[02:43] RyanW: welp it's nearly 3pm, time to go home I think
[02:43] Nuck: sorensen: Well, that means very little
[02:43] RyanW: I work too hard
[02:43] Nexxy: tuhoojabotti, and you can use away-proxy and receive hilights on your phone when you're detached from screen ;D
[02:43] tuhoojabotti: RyanW: No it's 05:40
[02:43] sorensen: i know i spoke too soon >.<
[02:43] sorensen: oh the phone
[02:43] tuhoojabotti: AM
[02:43] sorensen: so distracted
[02:44] tuhoojabotti: Nexxy: I just did a tasker app and node module that does that. :3
[02:44] tristanp: bnoordhuis: should I try recompiling node with a newer version of OpenSSL?
[02:44] tuhoojabotti: tasker profile that is
[02:44] Nexxy: tuhoojabotti, gief?
[02:44] tuhoojabotti: hmm
[02:44] tuhoojabotti: If I can find it.
[02:44] bnoordhuis: tristanp: no, 0.9.8e is recent-ish enough
[02:45] bnoordhuis: but normally you'd get descriptive error messages
[02:45] Nuck: I'm actually surprised nobody has built a way to run Mac OS X apps on Linux yet
[02:45] Nuck: At least AFAIK
[02:45] Nuck: It would be easier than WINE
[02:45] tristanp: yeah that's what's making this difficult :/
[02:45] Nexxy: Nuck, you're forgetting that Apple exists
[02:45] Nuck: Since both are POSIX-based
[02:45] sorensen: Nuck: no
[02:45] Nuck: Haha true
[02:45] tuhoojabotti: Nexxy: Oh, it's in finnish. ;D
[02:45] Nexxy: I love finnish!
[02:45] tuhoojabotti: http://mikeful.kapsi.fi/wiki/Tasker_awaylog Only php script here though
[02:45] tuhoojabotti: I did my own in node
[02:46] tuhoojabotti: And yes, it does send your hilight in plain text :D
[02:46] Nexxy: ;D
[02:46] Nuck: Are there Obj. C compilers for Linux yet?
[02:46] Nexxy: mine just emails me 
[02:46] tristanp: just to make it clear, "curl http://localhost:443" will crash the  process
[02:46] Nexxy: Nuck, clang?
[02:46] Nuck: Does clang work on Obj C?
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[02:46] Nuck: haha yup
[02:46] Nexxy: yes lol
[02:46] mrryanjohnston: <+ Wing> part-time angle grinder, hero style, ¤?
[02:46] mrryanjohnston: Well, alright then
[02:47] tuhoojabotti: huh
[02:47] mrryanjohnston: translated that page with google chrome to english
[02:47] tuhoojabotti: ah
[02:47] bnoordhuis: tristanp: crash as in print a stack trace or segfault node?
[02:47] Nuck: Let's see here, we've got an Obj. C compiler, we've got an OS that's pretty similar (at least it shares similar filesystem)
[02:48] Nuck: Why does nobody build Linux ports for UIKit?
[02:48] tuhoojabotti: mrryanjohnston: http://archive.assembly.org/2010/game-development/part-time-angle-grinder-hero-by-tekotuotanto
[02:48] bnoordhuis: because who wants a UI when you can have a terminal?
[02:48] tristanp: stack trace
[02:48] chjj: bnoordhuis++
[02:48] v8bot_:  chjj has given a beer to bnoordhuis. bnoordhuis now has 2 beers.
[02:48] catb0t: bnoordhuis now has 1 beer
[02:48] mrryanjohnston: tuhoojabotti: hahahaaa whaaaaat
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[02:49] Nexxy: serial terminal on my electric pencil sharpener
[02:49] tuhoojabotti: game dev compo
[02:49] Nexxy: rs2324lyfe
[02:49] mrryanjohnston: this is ridiculous
[02:49] Nuck: I use a GUI because I CBA to learn all the crazy commands a program can do
[02:49] Nexxy: and you call yourself a programmer
[02:49] Nuck: And know all the ways to get to them off the top of my head
[02:49] tuhoojabotti: mrryanjohnston: Assembly for the win<3
[02:49] guybrush: bnoordhuis: i like to have both available
[02:49] mrryanjohnston: Nuck: it gets really easy after a while.
[02:49] Nuck: Nexxy: JS has like 30 keywords
[02:50] mrryanjohnston: tuhoojabotti: this is in assembly??
[02:50] chrisdickinson: SubStack: got another bug for ya: "++total >= files.length && okay(null, global_files)", when passed through node-detective, throws a SyntaxError
[02:50] Nuck: Pretty sure vim has hundreds
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[02:50] tuhoojabotti: mrryanjohnston: No, Assembly is a demoscene/lan-party event
[02:50] Nexxy: 30ish of which you will actually use
[02:50] tuhoojabotti: http://archive.assembly.org/2011/game-development/black-belt-sorvi-hero-by-pizzalaatikko this year xD
[02:50] mrryanjohnston: tuhoojabotti: oh oh ok
[02:50] Nuck: haha, but those aren't very well-named
[02:50] Nuck: I still get mindfucked going between nano and Sublime
[02:50] Nuck: On ANY GUI editor, Ctrl+O is Ope
[02:51] Nuck: *Open
[02:51] mrryanjohnston: tuhoojabotti: this is awesome hahahaha
[02:51] Nuck: Nano decided that Ctrl+O was Write Out
[02:51] mrryanjohnston: so silly but so awesome
[02:51] chrisdickinson: Nuck: not to mention, vim lets you feel justified in buying usb foot pedals for your computer.
[02:51] Nuck: And I know vim is pretty nasty
[02:51] Nuck: chrisdickinson: haha
[02:51] tuhoojabotti: mrryanjohnston: I hope I'll submit an entry next year. ;-)
[02:51] chrisdickinson: 
ACTION actually has some.

[02:51] Nuck: I use Ctrl like a foot pedal
[02:51] Nexxy: chrisdickinson, jealousy
[02:51] Nuck: I often keep my left hand on Ctrl
[02:51] chrisdickinson: never really used 'em though. the thought of getting my dirty shoes over 'em grossed me out too much.
[02:51] chjj: chrisdickinson: you dont know the half of it, i get one of those arcade playstation steering wheel things and hook it up to my computer with a ps->usb converter
[02:52] Nuck: Pinky on CTRL, Pointer finger on C
[02:52] tuhoojabotti: I keep my left hand on the mouse o.O
[02:52] chjj: so i can steer my vim
[02:52] Nuck: I'm right-handed :P
[02:52] mrryanjohnston: tuhoojabotti: word. if I knew the first thing about anything other than php/javascript/java I'd participate
[02:52] Nuck: chjj: hahahaha
[02:52] chrisdickinson: chjj: ahaha
[02:52] Nuck: That'd be insane
[02:52] Nuck: I should get a Joystick
[02:52] Nexxy: chjj, ps joy converter? ;o
[02:52] tuhoojabotti: mrryanjohnston: My game will be in ES (or JS)
[02:52] tuhoojabotti: ;)
[02:52] chrisdickinson: chjj: add in a DDR pad for macros and I'm sold.
[02:52] Nuck: Somebody make vim work with Kinect :D
[02:52] chjj: haha
[02:52] mrryanjohnston: tuhoojabotti: bro.
[02:52] chjj: should get one of those too
[02:52] Nexxy: chrisdickinson, omfg you're a genius
[02:52] mrryanjohnston: tuhoojabotti: hook me up if you do anything.
[02:52] mrryanjohnston: look*
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[02:53] Nuck: I want to make programming look like interpretive dance
[02:53] chrisdickinson: "how do you delete a line?" -> "jump on the left and right pads at once, while steering vim to the left"
[02:53] chrisdickinson: "try to powerslide, though."
[02:53] tristanp: bnoordhuis: any ideas where I should poke around?
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[02:54] Nuck: chrisdickinson: Epic
[02:54] Nuck: chrisdickinson++
[02:54] v8bot_:  Nuck has given a beer to chrisdickinson. chrisdickinson now has 1 beers.
[02:54] catb0t: chrisdickinson now has 1 beer
[02:55] chrisdickinson: 
ACTION goes back to plain, boring, non-Tokyo-Drift vim :(

[02:55] chjj: haha
[02:55] Nuck: there need to be modules to interface with EVERYTHING in Node
[02:55] Nuck: Just for ridiculousness
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[02:55] Nuck: It should be able to interface with ANYTHING EVER
[02:56] chjj: nuck enjoys a good interfacin'
[02:56] Nexxy: it can
[02:56] Nexxy: https://github.com/voodootikigod/node-serialport
[02:56] Nuck: DDRPad.on('powerslide', ...
[02:56] bnoordhuis: tristanp: tls is an area we need to clean up, there's no good way to listen for protocol errors right now
[02:56] Nuck: I would totally use vim if I could control it with Kinect
[02:57] bnoordhuis: tristanp: if you hack the source a little, you can attach an error listener to SecurePair.cleartext
[02:57] Nuck: I could program in Semaphore
[02:57] tristanp: ok, I'm cool with that..
[02:57] bnoordhuis: tristanp: it's the Server() function in lib/tls.js
[02:57] tristanp: just wondering, do you think 0.5 might be any better off?
[02:58] bnoordhuis: tristanp: i'm looking at the latest lib/tls.js right now and i can say with confidence: no :)
[02:58] tristanp: haha, alright
[02:58] bnoordhuis: okay, off to bed
[02:58] tristanp: ok, that's all I need to get started on a fix
[02:58] bnoordhuis: good luck
[02:58] tristanp: ty
[02:59] tristanp: and goodnight
[03:00] Nuck: Okay, how do I get the total file size for all things in a directory in Linux?
[03:01] Nexxy: df
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[03:02] Nuck: 
ACTION just accidentally found out that `l` was the same as `ls`

[03:02] Nuck: but not quite
[03:02] Nuck: interesting
[03:03] chilts: Nuck: 'l' is probably an alias in your shell ... in my setup it is just slightly different to ls
[03:03] chilts: alias l='ls -CF'
[03:03] chilts: type 'alias l' and it'll tell you what it id
[03:03] Nuck: chilts: Yeah, it adds slashes in mine
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[03:03] Nuck: yeah same in mine
[03:04] chilts: I also get *'s on executables
[03:04] chilts: which you probably get too
[03:04] Nuck: Yeah, I just haven't hit an executable yet
[03:04] Nuck: So, df works on whole drives
[03:04] Nuck: I want it on a single folder
[03:04] chilts: you need 'du' then :)
[03:05] Nuck: holy jesusfuck
[03:05] Nexxy: I don't think du comes preinstalled on ubuntu
[03:05] Nexxy: I could be wrong tho
[03:05] Nuck: Well, it worked for me
[03:05] Nuck: But holy jesusfuck that's spammy
[03:05] chilts: yeah, it does :)
[03:05] Nuck: 
ACTION looks for a total

[03:05] Nexxy: ya it's also going to like
[03:05] Nexxy: spew a bajilion directories!
[03:05] chilts: -c
[03:05] chilts: Nuck: ^^^ for a total
[03:05] abraxas: Anyone played with npm's new private repositories yet? I can't get it to work with my repository URL… it keeps scanning registry.npmjs.org, despite my npm version being up-to-date.
[03:06] Nuck: e
[03:06] Nuck: 
ACTION runs it with -ch

[03:06] Nuck: human readable with total :D
[03:06] Nuck: heh, just at 2.7GB of data backed up thus far
[03:07] tttttt has joined the channel
[03:08] tttttt: hello
[03:08] Nuck: haha transferring more shit via WinSCP
[03:09] Nuck: Telling me I've got "7, 17:35:28" left
[03:09] Nuck: Oh hey down to just 2 days now
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[03:13] Nuck: Ugh
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[03:13] Nuck: Reading this article about how the GOP undermines the functioning of government is saddening
[03:13] Nuck: And I already knew all of this
[03:14] Nuck: But somehow seeing it in writing just makes it worse
[03:14] mikola has joined the channel
[03:14] mikola: Is there any online documentation available for dnode?
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[03:15] abraxas: Nuck: People trying to ruin their own country is sad, but what is infinitely more sad is people then voting for them.
[03:15] dmkbot: joyent/node: Shahor: hash.update fails on second call (https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/749 Seen) - https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/1415
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[03:16] Nuck: abraxas: This explains how the manipulate the uneducated into agreement by intentionally degrading the public view of Congress by making it dysfunctional
[03:16] luke` has joined the channel
[03:16] Nuck: And then they use that to back up the argument that government is bad
[03:16] mikola: also, a question about EventEmitter:
[03:16] kennberg has joined the channel
[03:16] Nuck: mikola: Yes, it's that fucking awesome.
[03:16] Nuck: We know.
[03:16] Nuck: 
ACTION <3 EventEmitters

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[03:16] abraxas: So, no one has used npm's new private repo feature yet?
[03:17] mikola: the docs are not too specific on it, but if I call emit on an event emitter, does it fire immediately or does it wait until the current function returns?
[03:17] guybrush: its only git-links
[03:17] Nuck: I think Nodejitsu may have
[03:17] mikola: I am hoping that it is the latter
[03:17] kennberg has joined the channel
[03:17] guybrush: i prefer tar-links
[03:17] Nuck: mikola: I think it's immediate
[03:17] guybrush: private-repos from tar-links which i serve via node-gitweb y3
[03:17] abraxas: guybrush: the odd thing is, my git links aren't being parsed as such… when I strace, I can see it visit the npm repository to look for it.
[03:17] guybrush: *<3
[03:17] Nuck: I can't see any reason for the latter
[03:18] mikola: that is a bit unfortunate
[03:18] mikola: hmm
[03:18] isaacs: abraxas: i've used it.  gist the log
[03:18] mikola: Nuck: Basically, I want a function that places events into the application event loop
[03:18] isaacs: mikola: immediately
[03:18] mikola: so that it does not block
[03:18] mikola: ok
[03:18] isaacs: mikola: it has to, otherwise you woulnd't be able to parse the http headers before the body started streaming in
[03:18] isaacs: that'd be bad
[03:19] guybrush: isaacs: the new feature does pull the whole repository?
[03:19] Nuck: mikola: The event loop is something you'll probably need C for
[03:19] isaacs: guybrush: yes.
[03:19] isaacs: guybrush: 1 git repo per package.
[03:19] isaacs: guybrush: the git repo must have a package.json in the root of it
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[03:19] guybrush: isnt there a git-archive thing to pull only the commit
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[03:19] isaacs: guybrush: it doen'st use git-archive.  it uses git.
[03:19] guybrush: i see
[03:19] isaacs: guybrush: you can specify a commit, though, with the #hash
[03:20] guybrush: though it pulls the whole repo
[03:20] isaacs: git://github.com/user/project.git#commitish
[03:20] isaacs: yeah
[03:20] isaacs: that's how git works :)
[03:20] guybrush: <3 gitweb-tarballs :D
[03:20] isaacs: it downloads all the refs
[03:20] isaacs: abraxas: so, what's in your package.json?  what is it outputting?
[03:20] abraxas: isaacs: that repo syntax differs from what's on felix's article
[03:21] abraxas: In dependencies, I have "mypackage": "ssh://git@github.com:MyAccount/mypackage.git"
[03:22] abraxas: Tried a whole bunch of variations on that, but no luck so far.
[03:22] SubStack: mikola: this might be of interest: http://substack.net/posts/9bac3e
[03:22] blueadept: would anyone know why this f array isn't able to get the g object? http://pastie.org/private/bawxepmkczvhcyztlrroa
[03:22] abraxas: I'm using nmod reps to install.. bad idea perhaps?
[03:22] abraxas: nmod deps
[03:22] blueadept: i'm pushing g into f, but f is console.log'ing nil
[03:22] mikola: thanks
[03:22] abraxas: The error is: "cant be found! ensure the package version exists"
[03:23] CIA-30: libuv: 03Bert Belder 07master * re95a29e 10/ src/win/error.c : Add mapping for ECONNABORTED - http://git.io/osQb-g
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[03:25] teadict: what are good success cases of companies or whatever using node?
[03:25] abraxas: isaacs: I'm doing it wrong?
[03:26] teadict: I'm amazed at how that silly concept of success cases give you tranquility, now that I'm about to make a app for this client
[03:26] teadict: I'm not scared at the fact that node is in constant development, that's always the case with open source, but being ready for real production is a different thing...
[03:27] teadict: building up trust here,  in the tools I'll be using
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[03:28] SubStack: chrisdickinson: noted! might be a while before I get to your patch though, crazy backlog of git issues since I was internetless for 2 days
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[03:29] chrisdickinson: SubStack: totally cool, just wanted to get that out there before i forgot about it. I added an issue with a gist pointing at the code that caused the error.
[03:29] chrisdickinson: also p.s. thanks for node-detective.
[03:29] teadict: wat dat
[03:30] teadict: 
ACTION watches repo

[03:30] Nexxy: in soviet russia, repo watch *you*
[03:31] teadict: creepy
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[03:31] Nexxy: has anyone else here had a chance to play with Node.js on OMAP?
[03:31] Nexxy: or any other SoCs?
[03:31] Nexxy: I know mscdex has but he's gone missing ;<
[03:32] Nexxy: i have a few beagleboards coming and I was hoping for someone to bounce ideas off of
[03:33] arlolra: SubStack: is there any way to avoid jadeify polluting the jQuery i already have on my page?
[03:33] tiagobutzke has joined the channel
[03:34] abraxas: isaacs: npm install "mygitrepo"   works fine
[03:35] abraxas: isaacs: having that exact same mygitrepo in package.json as a dependency, and then doing npm update, does not work.
[03:35] SubStack: arlolra: the jquery is self-contained
[03:35] SubStack: as jquery-browserify
[03:36] arlolra: SubStack: is that new? any time i add require('jadeify') to a page, i lose all my plugins
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[03:37] arlolra: i'm on 0.3.1
[03:37] arlolra: hmm
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[03:37] SubStack: very odd!
[03:37] arlolra: :(
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[03:37] SubStack: somebody sent me a patch that removes the jquery dep entirely
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[03:38] SubStack: haven't had a chance to look it over very deeply
[03:38] Nexxy: SubStack, were you just using it as a selector engine?
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[03:39] SubStack: Nexxy: I was using it to wrap elements and check handles too
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[03:39] SubStack: oh hmmm nevermind, must've been another project
[03:39] Nexxy: well there's always just plain sizzle
[03:39] SubStack: I wasn't using selectors at all really
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[03:40] SubStack: arlolra: jquery-browserify just writes to module.exports and jadeify just does var $ = require('jquery-browserify') in a function so that shouldn't leak
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[03:41] SubStack: maybe there are some side-effects in jquery-browserify that prevent it from being used alongside another jquery instance
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[03:41] isaacs: abraxas: please post an issue.  include your package.json file, the output, and the expected output.
[03:41] isaacs: abraxas: too eyeball-deep in zlib to think about that right now
[03:41] isaacs: .
[03:42] abraxas: isaacs: understood. but considering the fact that it's a private repo, i'm not sure if i'm actually allowed to do that… in it's raw form anyway.
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[03:42] isaacs: abraxas: ok, so, create an isolated test case.
[03:42] isaacs: abraxas: there are a lot of non-private repos out there :)
[03:42] abraxas: isaacs: i'll have a look at it, and currently open issues… thanks for the feedback
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[04:06] tttttt: sdf
[04:06] Nexxy: agreed.
[04:08] Nuck: haha I'm up to 3.4GB of data backed up
[04:08] Nuck: Now to move onto bigger files
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[04:09] Nexxy: THANKS FOR THE UPDATE FELLER
[04:09] dexter_e: If we want to have Models to represent our databases and all database APIs consist of callbacks, does that mean our Model interface must be based on callbacks too ?
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[04:09] Nexxy: be sure to keep us posted!
[04:09] Nuck: Nexxy: I'm just kinda giggling at how slowly this shit is going
[04:09] Nuck: I thought I had gone beyond 3.4GB work of stuff
[04:09] Nexxy: l2 eSata
[04:09] Nuck: It feels like I should be at 10GB
[04:10] Nuck: Nexxy: I'm doing this over SCP
[04:10] dexter_e: Accessing properties of a database backed Model must be based on callbacks?
[04:10] Nexxy: oh lol
[04:10] Nexxy: on your uber home network?
[04:10] Nuck: Yeah
[04:10] Nexxy: over wifi?
[04:10] Nexxy: ._.
[04:10] Nuck: Over 802.11n for half the journey
[04:10] Nuck: Then gigabit ethernet the rest of the way
[04:10] Nexxy: like it matters at that point
[04:11] Nexxy: ;P
[04:11] Nuck: I think I get 300Mbps for the WiFi
[04:11] Nuck: But with SCP's overhead, nowhere near
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[04:12] Nuck: My "big files" (5GB to 15GB) make up around 100GB of my shit
[04:13] tbranyen: are harmony proxies not in 0.5.5?
[04:13] tbranyen: i might i just tested and no go, so i guess thats the answer to that question
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[04:13] tbranyen: might as well test git
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[04:20] tbranyen: weird not in 0.5.6pre either
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[04:20] Nuck: I feel like Harmony might be another ECMAScript 4 :/
[04:20] abjorn: I feel like you might be another YOUR FACE
[04:20] Nuck: It breaks from a lot of the core concepts in JS
[04:20] abjorn: later
[04:20] abjorn: actually I kinda feel the same
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[04:21] Nuck: And I don't think it'll gain a lot of traction in the JS community because it's so different
[04:21] abjorn: most of the proposals are neato though as far as server-side javascript goes
[04:21] abjorn: some of it doesn't seem right for clientside tho
[04:21] Nuck: hehe I'm sure
[04:21] Nuck: But a lot of it seems like trying to fix something that isn't broken
[04:21] Nuck: Like classes
[04:22] Nuck: Classes are nice, but JS is not a classical language
[04:22] abjorn: That's not fixing something that isn't broken, it's introducing a convenient feature for some people that want it.
[04:22] Nuck: But two forms of inheritance?
[04:22] Nuck: WTF are we?  Java?
[04:22] tuhoojabotti: By the name!
[04:22] Nuck: haha
[04:22] abjorn: Not really, last I checked the proposals call for it just being syntactic sugar for prototypes
[04:22] tuhoojabotti: god I hate parsing strings. ;D
[04:23] Nuck: Well, *that* is better
[04:23] Nuck: But don't market it as classes
[04:23] abjorn: you and me both buddy, you and me both...
[04:23] tbranyen: java has two forms of inheritance?
[04:23] tbranyen: wat
[04:23] SubStack: so long as I can close over variables with it
[04:23] Nuck: tbranyen: I'm joking about the bloat
[04:23] abjorn: @tbranyen: that's what I thought lol
[04:23] Nuck: SubStack: Haha, so true
[04:23] tbranyen: oh
[04:23] Nuck: THAT is what I want
[04:23] tbranyen: proxies are genuinely useful
[04:23] Nuck: I normally use closures for cases where a Class would be nice
[04:23] tbranyen: i remember eich tweeting at me when i was bugging about lua's metatables
[04:24] tbranyen: and being liek woahhhhh
[04:24] abjorn: I think adding the classes as a wrapper around prototypes is a good idea, though. Adding something that people keep recreating on their own as a standard in the language.
[04:24] Nuck: Certainly, but calling them classes is a bad idea
[04:24] abjorn: As long as it stays just a wrapper around prototypes.
[04:24] abjorn: Probably.
[04:24] Nuck: It makes them seem like something they aren't
[04:24] abjorn: Could find a better name.
[04:24] Nuck: protoclasses :D
[04:24] tbranyen: for in loops sound like something they aren't :-p
[04:24] abjorn: that's just siiilllyyy
[04:24] abjorn: lol
[04:24] Nuck: tbranyen: Haha very true
[04:24] SubStack: if people can already build it I don't see why it needs to be in the language itself
[04:25] Nuck: SubStack: I think this would be nice
[04:25] abjorn: might as well use assembly then, substack :p
[04:25] SubStack: keep it in user space!
[04:25] Nuck: It can be done with a better syntax like this
[04:25] dmkbot: joyent/node: tshinnic: unguarded fs.watchFile cache statWatchers checking fixed - https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/1637
[04:25] tbranyen: SubStack: at that point might as well not introduce anything else?
[04:25] abjorn: "You can already build it!"
[04:25] Nuck: Plus this can be optimized more
[04:25] SubStack: tbranyen: yep
[04:25] tbranyen: ever, since you can't already build almost everything
[04:25] SubStack: proxies you actually can't do in regular javascript
[04:25] SubStack: I'm ok with those
[04:25] iammerrick has joined the channel
[04:25] SubStack: although they should be used sparingly
[04:25] jeffmoss has left the channel
[04:25] tbranyen: Oh well i mean you could write a native extension to get them, like node-proxy does
[04:26] abjorn: @SubStack: If it's something commonly used you can optimize for it in the engine and write it directly in the C/C++.
[04:26] Nuck: I agree with abjorn.
[04:26] abjorn: So there's a benefit there
[04:26] abjorn: and it's just convenient
[04:26] Nuck: I've yearned for something with the language-integration of prototypes, but the fine-grained controls of a closure
[04:27] Nuck: And this could be just that, if done properly
[04:28] Nuck: I am against addition of classes in their (no pun intended) classical form
[04:28] Nuck: But as syntactical sugar over prototypes?  Hell yes.
[04:28] abjorn: Well, if they look like the class wrappers you find now, like resigs simple inheritance thing, I'm all over it
[04:29] Nuck: Like I said, I just want a prototype with closed-over variables
[04:29] Nuck: I'm fine with prototypical inheritance
[04:29] Nuck: That's never been a problem for me
[04:29] mykul|Home has joined the channel
[04:29] abjorn: yeah
[04:29] Nuck: But the lack of private and public variables just kill it for me
[04:30] abjorn: Personally, I worked with C++ a lot before getting into web dev and js, and I think prototypal is...better.
[04:30] abjorn: classes are kinda gay.
[04:30] Nuck: haha
[04:30] abjorn: at least in the C++/Java way
[04:30] Nuck: I like the class style in AS3, honestly
[04:30] abjorn: meh
[04:30] Nuck: But I'd like to see that combined with JS prototypes
[04:30] abjorn: AS3 is like
[04:30] Nuck: AS3 itself is a hideous thing
[04:31] abjorn: javascripts retarded inbred cousin that tried to make out with you once
[04:31] Nuck: abjorn: haha, YES!
[04:31] Nexxy: O_o
[04:31] Nuck: That is a perfect description
[04:31] Nexxy: itc; uneducated language bashing
[04:31] abjorn: What, Nexxy, you know I'm right
[04:31] Nexxy: uhm'
[04:31] Nuck: AS3 was like what happens when you try to merge two languages with VERY different concepts.
[04:31] Nexxy: it's based on ecmascript
[04:31] kiffness_ has joined the channel
[04:31] Nexxy: why hate?
[04:31] Nuck: It just REALLY doesn't work
[04:31] Nexxy: go hate on ruby or something
[04:31] abjorn: Why would I hate on Ruby?
[04:32] abjorn: I like Ruby.
[04:32] TheCode has joined the channel
[04:32] Nuck: Nexxy: It barely even RESEMBLES ECMAScript!
[04:32] abjorn: That's not true
[04:32] abjorn: It does
[04:32] Nexxy: abjorn, well that would explain our difference in opinion :)
[04:32] abjorn: But not in a good way
[04:32] Nuck: In basic syntax, sure
[04:32] zeiris has joined the channel
[04:32] abjorn: Nexxy: Well, okay, I hate Ruby's syntax
[04:32] Nuck: But in many of the concepts, it changed
[04:32] abjorn: but the way it works, awesome!
[04:32] Nexxy: AS3 is pretty much js + strict typing and native modules
[04:32] Nexxy: what is there to hate?
[04:32] abjorn: and lame classes ;(
[04:32] Nuck: Nexxy: The bitchiness of the language
[04:32] Nuck: You will get an error no matter what
[04:32] Nexxy: Nuck, you're hating on strict typing then
[04:33] Nuck: That's what I learned
[04:33] Nuck: Haha that too
[04:33] Nexxy: not AS3 itself
[04:33] Nuck: I do have a distaste for strict typing
[04:33] abjorn: I have no problem with the strict typing, I'm kinda used to that.
[04:33] Nuck: I think it may be a similar reason to why I hate CS.
[04:33] postwait has joined the channel
[04:33] abjorn: It's just one approach to programming
[04:33] Nexxy: I think it makes sense in a lot of applications
[04:33] Nuck: It took my language and made it something I can't stand
[04:33] kiffness_ has left the channel
[04:33] Nuck: 
ACTION is very protective of JS

[04:33] abjorn: I mean, with loose typing you don't have to think as much initially, but you're going to have to think about it at some point.
[04:33] TheCode: I wonder why my apps won't find modules installed using the -g option.
[04:34] abjorn: because it's going to search the local path
[04:34] Nexxy: Nuck, I'm sure Brendan appreciates your sentiment
[04:34] dgathright has joined the channel
[04:34] Nuck: lol
[04:34] abjorn: Nexxy: idk brendan bashes the language himself sometimes lol
[04:34] TheCode: I think it should be smart to look further up
[04:34] abjorn: hence why harmony is taking such a drastic turn
[04:34] Nuck: Brendan is freaked out by how big it's gotten I think
[04:35] Nuck: He designed it with a very small frame of mind
[04:35] fmeyer has joined the channel
[04:35] Nuck: And now it's grown to, well, Node.js!
[04:35] abjorn: TheCode: I've never quite understood it myself, but in general I only use the -g option for modules with a cli, like nodemon or similar.
[04:35] Nexxy: damn Nuck you must have quite an impressive resume
[04:35] Nexxy: designer, coder, mentalist
[04:35] abjorn: Nuck: You think? He's stated that very sentiment lol
[04:35] Nuck: abjorn: Haha true
[04:35] JakeyChan_ has joined the channel
[04:35] Nuck: He never explicitly says it's freaking him out
[04:36] abjorn: Nexxy: mine includes "Crimefighter"
[04:36] Nexxy: abjorn, oooh
[04:36] Nuck: Mine has bigger words
[04:36] TheCode: Look look Jackey Chan there! Kungfu fighting!
[04:36] Nuck: I use big words to make it sound like I actually do things :D
[04:36] Nexxy: abjorn, I've been toying with the idea of listing "lulzcow" on mine
[04:36] abjorn: I don't want no trable!
[04:36] abjorn: Nexxy: I also put "Sexy"
[04:36] Nuck: abjorn: Shitty crimefighter you are
[04:36] Nuck: I DON
[04:36] Nuck: I DON'T WANT NO TREBLE
[04:36] Nuck: GIMME MORE BASS
[04:37] abjorn: I was being jackie chan
[04:37] TheCode: NO SARDINE
[04:37] Nexxy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WC6EbRQmJ0
[04:37] Nexxy: done
[04:37] Nuck: NO MAGIKARP
[04:37] Nuck: 
ACTION used Splash

[04:38] tuhoojabotti: Nuck: http://soundcloud.com/mordfustang
[04:38] abjorn: mordfustang lol
[04:38] Nexxy: rofl
[04:38] abjorn: mord?
[04:38] abjorn: mordekaiser?
[04:38] abjorn: br?
[04:38] tuhoojabotti: abjorn?
[04:38] abjorn: huehuehuehue
[04:38] isaacs has joined the channel
[04:38] Nuck: modekai?
[04:38] Nuck: *mordecai
[04:38] abjorn: i guess no one caught that joke
[04:38] abjorn: no league of legends players here i suppose :(
[04:38] Nuck: 
ACTION casts Magic Missile

[04:39] Draggor: abjorn: there's a 12 step program for that
[04:39] abjorn: naaahhh
[04:39] abjorn: there's no stopping it
[04:39] Draggor: The first step is admitting you have a problem
[04:39] abjorn: Oh I admit it
[04:39] Draggor: D:
[04:39] abjorn: The steps end there, though.
[04:39] tuhoojabotti: Nuck: Just listen to it. :3
[04:40] abjorn: lol everyone at my work plays league of legends
[04:40] Draggor: I'm dating a LoL player
[04:40] Draggor: I haven't been tainted yet
[04:40] TheCode: I uninstalled all my local modules assuming, the lookup will traverse up to the global location :/
[04:40] abjorn: I found this out when I went into the break room and my supervisor was playing LoL on one of the computers there
[04:40] abjorn: also, his boss, the department manager was next to him playing counter-strike
[04:40] abjorn: ...interesting place.
[04:41] ditesh|cassini has joined the channel
[04:41] Nexxy: SOUNDS PRODUCTIVE
[04:41] abjorn: hey. they were on break!
[04:41] abjorn: hence, breakroom
[04:41] Nexxy: the endless 15?
[04:41] Nexxy: I know how those work
[04:41] Nuck: holy shit, tuhoojabotti, the sheer number of comments
[04:41] Nuck: Nexxy: Maybe it's their 20% time
[04:41] Nuck: Working on "projects"
[04:42] tuhoojabotti: Nuck: 10786 followers afterall
[04:42] schwab has joined the channel
[04:42] abjorn: nah lol trust me, the manager i referred to would not allow slacking off...
[04:43] Nuck: tuhoojabotti: Heh, interesting music
[04:43] Nuck: Not quite my style
[04:43] Nuck: I like faster remixes
[04:43] tuhoojabotti: Nuck: I don't like all of them either.
[04:43] Nuck: like Bankai or RAC
[04:43] tuhoojabotti: Give them a shot.
[04:43] TheCode: UNMET DEPENDENCY express 2.4.3
[04:43] TheCode: UNMET DEPENDENCY express 2.4.3
[04:43] TheCode: UNMET DEPENDENCY express 2.4.3
[04:43] TheCode: UNMET DEPENDENCY express 2.4.3
[04:43] TheCode: UNMET DEPENDENCY express 2.4.3
[04:43] Nuck: ...
[04:43] abjorn: also, it's interesting to see that node has gotten big enough for us to get questions about whether we support it or not (I work for HostGator)
[04:43] TheCode: sorryyyy
[04:43] Nuck: >:C
[04:43] TheCode: $ npm install unmet
[04:44] TheCode: :P
[04:44] TheCode: unmet not found
[04:44] abjorn: probably because unmet isn't a module :)
[04:44] TheCode: I know, joke
[04:44] abjorn: lol
[04:44] Nuck: tuhoojabotti: I used to get most of my remixes off TheSixtyOne
[04:45] Nuck: But then... Well, they changed their website drastically, and suddenly, people stopped going there and people stopped posting music
[04:45] Nexxy: oh like gawker only with music?
[04:45] abjorn: lol
[04:45] Nuck: lol
[04:45] Nuck: Worse
[04:45] TheCode: abjorn, while you are at it, make sure you support NoSQL out of the box. You'll get lots of techical customers.
[04:45] abjorn: or like facebook except everyone *doesn't* grin and bear it
[04:45] tuhoojabotti: Nuck: The problem is, that it requires flash.
[04:45] Nuck: They went from a sensible web page-style design with a list of music
[04:46] tuhoojabotti: Yeh
[04:46] Nuck: To a new, shitty design
[04:46] abjorn: TheCode: Much to my non-amusement, our target market is not technical customers.
[04:46] Nuck: Which had the whole page dedicated to the song
[04:46] Nuck: And horrible navigation
[04:46] TheCode: Hmmm
[04:46] tuhoojabotti: has*
[04:46] Nuck: It's nigh impossible to find music anymore
[04:46] abjorn: Also, you can run all that shit on a linux box easy, so our vps/dedi customers can use it just fine
[04:46] Nexxy: abjorn, apparently your target market is also not "secure hosting environments" ;P
[04:47] abjorn: weeeelll we diiiddd get ddos'd last week...
[04:47] Nuck: I have better hosting that all you people :3
[04:47] Nuck: hyperized.net
[04:47] TheCode: abjorn, CouchDB is a pain in the ass to install - atleast on CentOS
[04:47] abjorn: luckily it was the night shift so I didn't have to be there!
[04:47] abjorn: TheCode: I never had any trouble
[04:47] Nuck: That's my SA
[04:47] abjorn: but I used CouchBase
[04:47] Nexxy: abjorn, what do you guys do in that case?
[04:47] TheCode: from source?
[04:47] Nexxy: null route the offending IP?
[04:47] abjorn: Couch Base installs ez on CentOS
[04:47] abjorn: Nexxy: basically, yeah
[04:47] tuhoojabotti: Nuck: I can has localhost
[04:47] Nuck: The guy is so dedicated to his job, it's great
[04:48] Nuck: (plus he doesn't overbook his hosting - he charges more but gives better service)
[04:48] sivy has joined the channel
[04:48] Nuck: When I needed a testing VPS for my startup, he allotted us 8 cores with 4GB RAM and 20GB HDD
[04:48] Nuck: Without even a moment's thought
[04:49] abjorn: lol nice
[04:49] Nuck: In fact, he gave us that when we just asked for a "simple VPS to basic testing on"
[04:49] abjorn: my vps has 4 cores and 1 gb ram ;(
[04:50] Nuck: He needs bigger clients to expand his business, so by helping us get started, he stands to gain a big client
[04:50] abjorn: yeah
[04:50] Nuck: symbiotic relationships make for great motivation
[04:50] abjorn: trust me, we jump through..lots of hoops.
[04:50] Nuck: lol
[04:50] Nexxy: Nuck, drug dealers use that strategy too
[04:50] abjorn: more so because our customers are dumb and dont know how any of this works
[04:51] Nuck: This guy actually works normally at the Internet Exchange in Amsterdam or whatever it is
[04:51] abjorn: "sir plz my websights"
[04:51] Nuck: The big one
[04:51] abjorn: neato
[04:51] Nexxy: abjorn, this uhm... chat is publicly logged, just fyi ;P
[04:51] boltR has joined the channel
[04:51] Nuck: haha
[04:51] Nexxy: wouldn't want you to inadvertently walk into a PR disaster
[04:51] Nuck: Nexxy: At hitlr.de, right?
[04:51] tuhoojabotti: I has 8 cores and 16GB of memory and 50GB and 500GB and so on
[04:51] abjorn: meh
[04:51] Nexxy: abjorn is all liek "meh, I'm quitting in 15 minutes anyway"
[04:51] Nexxy: "here's the passwd file"
[04:51] Nuck: haha
[04:51] abjorn: naaahh
[04:51] Nuck: Nexxy: lol
[04:51] springmeyer has joined the channel
[04:51] tuhoojabotti: But it's not vps ;__;
[04:51] abjorn: lol like I would have access to that :p
[04:52] Nexxy: you *could* ;3
[04:52] Nexxy: let's talk
[04:52] abjorn: nah it's a cool place to work
[04:52] abjorn: this week we had a guy calling in several times to sing to us
[04:52] Nuck: I should set up cert-based authentication for our testing VPS >_>
[04:52] abjorn: he wrote a song dedicated to the company
[04:52] springmeyer has left the channel
[04:52] Nuck: WHAT
[04:52] abjorn: telling us how awesome we are
[04:52] tuhoojabotti: :DD
[04:52] Nuck: abjorn: WHAT THE FUCK
[04:52] abjorn: Customer of the Year, All Years.
[04:52] Nuck: Fucking beautiful
[04:52] abjorn: I know rofl
[04:52] tuhoojabotti: Nuck: Gimme your companys number
[04:52] abjorn: it was fantastic
[04:53] slifty has joined the channel
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[04:53] Nuck: tuhoojabotti: huh?
[04:53] abjorn: I only say bad things about customers because I have to deal with the ones who have problems all day, and statistically I'm going to get a lot of dumb ones that break their sites. Like one today who decided to delete his public_html directory.
[04:53] tuhoojabotti: I want to sing you guys a song
[04:54] Nuck: tuhoojabotti: lolololol
[04:54] tuhoojabotti: By Rick Astley
[04:54] Nuck: abjorn: ...
[04:54] Nexxy: I saw that coming
[04:54] mosen has joined the channel
[04:54] Nexxy: a mile away
[04:54] Nuck: tuhoojabotti: I have a Kernel mod that does that for me
[04:54] abjorn: So did I, Nexxy, so did I...
[04:54] TheCode: Yea sing it
[04:55] fangel has joined the channel
[04:55] abjorn: Had one guy awhile back that deleted everything in his home directory except for hidden files and folders. All he wanted to get rid of was a single .htaccess file.
[04:55] tuhoojabotti: rm -rf .
[04:55] cliffano has joined the channel
[04:55] mosen: hi node. I can't seem to compile node-glob (glob) on node 0.5.5/osx.. anyone heard of this?
[04:55] Nexxy: in all fairness, .htaccess files are pretty cunning
[04:55] abjorn: lol i have a funny story about that too, tuhoojabotti
[04:56] abjorn: mosen: deets?
[04:56] tuhoojabotti: abjorn: My story: I had no home folder. ;__;
[04:56] abjorn: lol
[04:56] tuhoojabotti: Had to call in a ticket right away ;D
[04:56] abjorn: But yeah, in training they showed us a support ticket
[04:56] abjorn: where basically one of the support techs rm -rf'd a guy's entire vps
[04:56] mosen: abjorn, invalid conversion from int* to void* basically.. npm install glob
[04:56] Nuck: I have a cofounder at my startup, our mobile dev, and he recently switched to an overbooked n00b's hosting (it was a few bucks cheaper)
[04:56] isaacs has joined the channel
[04:57] mosen: abjorn, grabbing the line number etc
[04:57] Nuck: And they fucked up his iptables
[04:57] abjorn: jesus how would they manage to do that
[04:57] abjorn: why would they even be touching it?
[04:57] Nuck: I think it was liek they entered a 7 instead of 17 or something
[04:57] Nuck: abjorn: My sentiments exactly
[04:57] stagas_ has joined the channel
[04:57] Emmanuel` has joined the channel
[04:57] tuhoojabotti: abjorn: Then there's the uninstall script that deletes your /usr
[04:58] abjorn: I mean, if a customer needs a port opened or something, we do it, but we contact our Linux Admin's to do that.
[04:58] Nexxy: ya man iptables is some hardcore stuff
[04:58] Nuck: Like I said, overbooked n00b
[04:58] Nexxy: hence horrible wrappers like ufw
[04:58] jonaslund_ has joined the channel
[04:58] abjorn: Well, we're shared hosting (mostly) so our stuff is "overbooked" but we don't fuck up that bad lol
[04:59] Nexxy: overselling != overbooked
[04:59] abjorn: then what do you mean by overbooked
[04:59] Nexxy: idk what he meant
[04:59] Nexxy: but there's nothign wrong with overselling ;3
[04:59] Nexxy: as long as you scale to accomidate your clients needs
[04:59] abjorn: yeah, just so long as you know what you're getting
[04:59] Nuck: As I understand, he was selling high-specced VPSes for $7 a pop
[04:59] abjorn: lol
[04:59] thalll has joined the channel
[04:59] Nuck: And put more on a single physical server than he should have
[04:59] Nuck: To make up for it
[04:59] abjorn: overselling VPS's, now that's a terrible idea
[04:59] Nuck: Yup
[05:00] abjorn: also makes no sense at all
[05:00] Nuck: overselling webservers?  That's not a big deal
[05:00] cliffano: isaacs: is it possible to add another author to an already published module in npmjs.org ? the original author of nodelint can't be contacted, there are others who maintain the source on github, but are unable to publish to npmjs.org
[05:00] Nuck: overselling VPSes?  Now that takes a lunatic
[05:00] abjorn: cliffano: he left
[05:00] Nexxy: there is a fine line between lunatic and genius
[05:00] cliffano: abjorn: ah, thanks
[05:00] abjorn: And they stayed well in the lunatic camp, Nexxy
[05:01] Nuck: Nexxy: I'm talkin about Michelle Bachmann-esque lunacy
[05:01] Nuck: The one that's on the verge of stupidity
[05:01] Sixty4Bit has joined the channel
[05:01] Nexxy: politics & religion
[05:01] Nexxy: 2 giant no-no's
[05:01] stagas_ has joined the channel
[05:02] abjorn: hey this isn't work
[05:02] Nuck: haha
[05:02] Nexxy: it's a dev community tho
[05:02] abjorn: lol yeah i know
[05:02] Nuck: politics is one thing every intelligent person should agree on
[05:02] Nuck: Everyone is evil
[05:02] abjorn: that's a good one, nuck
[05:02] abjorn: everyone agreeing on politics, thats funny
[05:03] abjorn: anyways, that guy that rm -rf'd a customer's VPS
[05:03] Nuck: abjorn: It's mostly the feeble-minded who fall prey to the propoganda
[05:03] abjorn: they showed it in a training as like a "what not to do"
[05:03] Nuck: Wait, an EMPLOYEE rm -rf'd?
[05:03] abjorn: which, I mean, you would think would be obvious but
[05:03] Nuck: D:
[05:03] abjorn: yep
[05:03] Nuck: Dear god
[05:03] Nexxy: I rm -rf'd a company car once
[05:03] Nexxy: true story
[05:03] abjorn: this is why chat support aren't supposed to ssh into a vps
[05:04] Nuck: Telling Linux users not to do `rm -rf` is like telling Windows uers not to delete System32
[05:04] abjorn: or deltree
[05:04] Nuck: That's a bit less obviously bad
[05:04] Nuck: What gave the guy the idea to run rm -rf!?
[05:04] abjorn: But, they also showed it to us in training to tell us that we can fuck up big and so long as we own up to it we'll be fine. Cause the guy who did that still works here.
[05:05] abjorn: I have NO idea.
[05:05] Nexxy: I accidentally `rm -rf /*` once ;3
[05:05] abjorn: I read the ticket and never did figure out what possessed him to do such a thing
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[05:05] Nexxy: in my defence I was trying to type ./*
[05:05] mosen: Nexxy, when you rm'ed the car were the hidden airbags left behind?
[05:05] mosen: I cannot get glob to compile at all :|
[05:06] Nexxy: mosen, lol no
[05:06] abjorn: Actually, that guy not only still works here, but works in QA now...so he actually got promoted - twice, to Quality Assurance of all things lol
[05:06] Nexxy: we just somehow managed to park it where no one could find it
[05:06] Nuck: abjorn: If anyone can break something, he can?
[05:06] abjorn: Well no one can say he doesn't know what not  to do
[05:06] Nexxy: and they were about to file a police report by the time someone asked either of us
[05:06] abjorn: hahaha
[05:06] abjorn: I accidentally the whole car
[05:06] Nuck: Nexxy: That's akin to moving your entire filesystem into a hidden directory
[05:07] Nexxy: Nuck, except we were told to park it in the back from now on
[05:07] Nexxy: and apparently no one else got the memo
[05:07] Nexxy: nor did they think to check the back lot
[05:07] abjorn: rofl
[05:07] Nexxy: keys were in the office
[05:07] Nexxy: car was gone
[05:07] Nuck: abjorn: Maybe they wanted to keep that person as far away from the Linux servers as possible?
[05:08] abjorn: lol
[05:08] Nuck: Keep him from anything containing customer data
[05:08] abjorn: Well he had to be promoted to level 2 support before goingto QA, so that doesn't quite work
[05:08] Nuck: lol
[05:08] abjorn: I've talked to him, he's actually really good at this stuff lol
[05:09] abjorn: idk, after a certain point I can kind of understand how someone can fuck up bad at this job
[05:09] Nuck: abjorn: You in the support department?
[05:09] abjorn: yeah
[05:09] abjorn: for the time being
[05:09] SubStack: support department eh?
[05:10] zemanel_ has joined the channel
[05:10] abjorn: since apparently the head of the dev department is too busy to talk to me about the dev position I applied for
[05:10] SubStack: want to play with a crazy new experimental test harness? just do this:
[05:10] abjorn: then again, after talking to my friend who is one of the devs, I kinda dont want to
[05:10] abjorn: I dont wanna use perl...
[05:10] metellus has joined the channel
[05:11] Nuck: eek
[05:11] Nuck: I'd agree
[05:11] Wa has joined the channel
[05:11] SubStack: wget http://substack.net/snippets/test.js; curl -sNT test.js 71.198.76.38:8080
[05:11] abjorn: well, the position is supposed to just be HTML/CSS dev, with some JS work too
[05:11] abjorn: but, well, my friends position was PHP developer and he has to mess with perl a lot too
[05:12] abjorn: anyways, linux admins get paid more anyways so I'll just work my way there :D
[05:12] Nuck: convince them that node is better :D
[05:12] abjorn: fat chance
[05:12] abjorn: apache is their bread and butter rofl
[05:13] andrewfff has joined the channel
[05:13] abjorn: chat program is php tho apparently
[05:14] abjorn: also they apparently use python some too, so thats nice
[05:14] denom has joined the channel
[05:14] Nexxy: real nice!
[05:14] Nexxy: if you're into falling off of cliffs
[05:14] Nexxy: and all that
[05:14] abjorn: But, really, web hosting companies traditionally use Perl - and a lot of it.
[05:15] denom: whats the difference between 0.4.11 and 0.5.5, is the latter a development branch?
[05:15] abjorn: well, gotta go to bed now so i can go back to work in the morning!
[05:15] abjorn: lots o stuff, denom, for one, Windows support
[05:15] stagas has joined the channel
[05:16] abjorn: and yes, latter is dev branch
[05:16] abjorn: odd minor build numbers are dev branches
[05:16] abjorn: 0.5.x is current dev branch
[05:16] abjorn: 0.4.x is current stable
[05:17] abjorn: night ya'll
[05:17] Nuck: They use Apache?
[05:17] Nuck: Oh dear god WTF kind of shitty host is that?
[05:17] Nuck: Nginx FTW
[05:17] Nuck: And if you're doing simple web hosting, Nginx would probably be better
[05:17] denom: hmm, 0.5.5 has typed arrays..
[05:18] Nuck: hmmm, apple store site is down
[05:18] Nuck: maintainence
[05:18] tbranyen: woot
[05:18] tbranyen: apple store
[05:18] springmeyer has joined the channel
[05:18] Nuck: 
ACTION hopes it's preparations for the announcement of iPhone

[05:18] Nexxy: oh yay the real iPhone 4 is being released?!
[05:18] Nuck: It would make sense, since iPhone is widely predicted to come out in October
[05:19] denom: Is the standard library pretty much the same between 0.4.11 and 0.5.5?
[05:19] Nuck: Nexxy: The iPhone 4 is a huge improvement over iPhone 3Gs IMO
[05:19] Nexxy: why is that?
[05:19] Daegalus: IM waiting for all the new Mango phones
[05:19] Nexxy: the fact that they require bumper cases so your fingers don't shut off the antennas?
[05:19] Nexxy: yeah that was a *huge* improvement
[05:19] Nuck: It's complete nonsense
[05:20] Nuck: I've got an iPhone 4
[05:20] Nuck: And I can assure you the deathgrip is minimal
[05:20] Nuck: I don't even use my case anymore
[05:20] Nuck: (partly because it broke)
[05:20] Daegalus: I stick to non-iOS devices
[05:20] Nexxy: well that's what you get for not buying an officially sanctioned apple case
[05:20] Nuck: haha it was officially sanctioned
[05:20] fg3 has joined the channel
[05:21] Nexxy: oh wait a minute I thought you said apple products were indestructable ;3
[05:21] Nexxy: and SO well built
[05:21] blkcat: guys this is #node.js, why are we arguing about apple products :D
[05:21] Nuck: It's not an official case
[05:21] Nuck: It's just officially-sanctioned
[05:21] Daegalus: It doesn't matter if this was #linux, Everything > iOS
[05:21] Nuck: It's from inCASE
[05:22] Nuck: I dropped it on the weakest corner on cement
[05:22] kiffness has joined the channel
[05:22] Nuck: Taht is, the top left corner
[05:22] Nexxy: blkcat, it's not arguing when I'm involved
[05:22] Nuck: Since there's the hole for the switches there, it's weaker up there
[05:22] Nexxy: (I'm always right)
[05:23] Nuck: thinking of maybe melting it back together
[05:23] Nuck: It didn't lose any plastic, it just cracked
[05:23] blkcat: Nexxy: i stand corrected.
[05:23] Daegalus: I wonder if I can get Node.js to run on my phone or tablet :D
[05:24] Nexxy: blkcat, thank you, please be seated :)
[05:24] Nuck: Daegalus: On Android?  Been done.
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[05:24] Wa has joined the channel
[05:24] Nuck: On WebOS?  Absolutely, it's already installed!
[05:24] Daegalus: Nuck: Neither, Windows Phone 7, thought my tablet is android, so guess thats checked off
[05:24] Daegalus: though*
[05:24] Nuck: bahahahahaha
[05:24] Nuck: WINDOWS MOBILE?
[05:24] Nuck: You mean to tell me people *actually* use that?
[05:24] Daegalus: not windows Mobile, windows phone 7. 6.x has nothing to do with 7
[05:24] Nuck: Wow
[05:24] tbranyen: windows phone 7 != windows mobile
[05:25] Nuck: Windows Phone 7
[05:25] Nuck: Sorry
[05:25] Nuck: That
[05:25] tbranyen: personally haven't used it, but i doubt the browser can be any worse in windows phone 7 as it is in android >_>
[05:25] Nuck: Sorry, I misspoke there, but I still meant the same thing
[05:25] denom: How do people typically write a main function in Node?
[05:25] Nuck: It's a hideous OS
[05:25] Nuck: denom: Main function?
[05:25] tbranyen: denom: you don't need to
[05:25] Nuck: ...
[05:25] tbranyen: this isn't c++
[05:25] tbranyen: c/c++
[05:25] Nuck: I was about to say
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[05:25] Daegalus: It is a wonderful OS, i hate iOS, and Android is great, but the UI for WP7 is amazing, i love minimalist UIs
[05:25] tbranyen: if you want a function to execute when the script starts just immediately invoke it
[05:26] denom: ok
[05:26] Nuck: I hate the WP7 UI
[05:26] Bonuspunkt: i hate ie7
[05:26] tbranyen: Daegalus: windows mobile burned me too much to ever thing about wp7
[05:26] tbranyen: don't care how different
[05:26] Nexxy: Nuck, don't you hate everything that didn't come out of your mouth?
[05:26] Nuck: That too, tbranyen
[05:26] Nexxy: or am I missing something
[05:26] Daegalus: tbranyen: with the mango update, the WP7 browser is IE9, so it has the same as the IE9 JS support
[05:26] Nuck: Daegalus: IE9 still sucks ass
[05:26] tbranyen: interesting
[05:26] Daegalus: eh, I am happy with it, I write apps for it. etc.
[05:26] tbranyen: didn't know that
[05:27] Nuck: IE10 is *barely* enough for me to call IE a modern browser
[05:27] Nuck: And the UI on it is completely batshit
[05:27] Daegalus: Nuck: yes, i agree, I hate IE, but it works, and I am not complaining. I like WP7 more than the other platforms
[05:27] Nuck: Putting tabs *next to* the address bar
[05:27] Nuck: WTF
[05:27] Sixty4Bit: I installed the node-sqlite library… I'm trying to run "node test.js" and node is exploding….
[05:27] Daegalus: I use Chrome everywhere
[05:27] Nuck: Daegalus: I like iOS
[05:28] Daegalus: I hate it, my old iPhone 3G is now an Android phone. I removed iOS from it
[05:28] Nuck: If I want a crippled OS on my phone, I'll take one that has a lot of apps to make up for it
[05:28] denom: Do people here use semicolons?
[05:28] Sixty4Bit: are their some incompatibilties with the current versions of node and node-sqlite?
[05:28] Nuck: Hence iOS
[05:28] Nuck: denom: YES
[05:28] denom: doesn't the lead dev of node leave semicolons off?
[05:28] Daegalus: ya but 80% of the apps on iOS are bullshit anyway, so the amount of worthwhile apps isnt much different
[05:28] Nuck: denom: No, that's isaacs/
[05:28] Nuck: He's crazy
[05:29] Nuck: Daegalus: Hey, we're better than on Android
[05:29] Nuck: Their market is filled with *worse* apps
[05:29] Nexxy: denom, only where required
[05:29] Nuck: Ours has a lot of *good* apps
[05:29] Nexxy: and then sometimes not even then ;3
[05:29] denom: ahh I see we have consensus :)
[05:30] Nuck: I use semicolons always, because they're a minor thing to do for reliable results
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[05:30] Nuck: Plus they make code changes easier, much like using curly braces for single-line conditional statements
[05:30] Daegalus: Nuck: eh, debatable, but I do agree the Android market has a bigger % of crapware. But I dunno, im tired of Apple lockin, apples stupid restrictions, and bullshit. If I wanted an OS that is locked down to the point of no return, sure, but no thanks. Even jailbroken with Cydia it was bullshit
[05:31] Nuck: Daegalus: Meh, the lockin doesn't bother me that much, I like that it keeps the shit apps out
[05:31] Sixty4Bit: Anyone use geddy?
[05:31] denom: I'm trying to spawn 100 processes via exec and I am getting `pipe(): Too many open files` yipes!
[05:31] Nexxy: lol
[05:31] Nexxy: "keeps the shit apps out"
[05:31] Nuck: Well, it does
[05:31] Nuck: It keeps good apps out too
[05:31] Nuck: Minor detail
[05:31] Nexxy: I'm glad you trust a megacorporation to think for you
[05:31] Daegalus: Nuck: I meant a different type of lockin, but sure.
[05:31] Nuck: Nexxy: Well, it means a better signal-to-noise ratio
[05:32] Nuck: Daegalus: Heh, well, having one unified place to get updates, having a simple pathway for everything
[05:32] Nuck: That's what I want in a phone
[05:32] Nuck: I could care less if it's able to run fucking ANYTHING
[05:32] Nuck: Or if I can mod it out
[05:32] Daegalus: And I get that from Android and even more so with WP7
[05:32] Nuck: No, I want a phone that works, plain and simple
[05:32] Nuck: And Apple built that
[05:32] Daegalus: Android and WP7 do...
[05:33] Nuck: NOooooooo not at all
[05:33] Nuck: ESPECIALLY Android
[05:33] Nuck: No unified updates pathway
[05:33] Nexxy: uh...
[05:33] Nuck: There's so many flavors of the OS that it's gone to shit
[05:33] Nexxy: just like GNU/Linux amirite?
[05:33] Nuck: And manufacturers are forking it, and everything
[05:33] Nexxy: yah seriously who needs diversity
[05:33] Nuck: Nexxy: At least in Linux, it's not done by OEMs
[05:33] Nexxy: one size fits all!
[05:34] Nexxy: let's all dress like steve jobs too
[05:34] Nexxy: while we're at it
[05:34] Nuck: It's fine on a computer
[05:34] Nexxy: and eat nothing but fruit
[05:34] Nuck: But on my Phone, I want it to work
[05:34] Nexxy: ya cuz y ou know how hard it is to make a phonecall on android, wp7 and bb
[05:34] Nuck: Nexxy: It's hard to get an app that doesn't look like shit
[05:34] Nuck: And it's hard to get an interface that isn't shit on Android
[05:34] Nexxy: lol
[05:34] Nexxy: do you have any other modes?
[05:35] Nuck: Since msot manufacturers make their own UIs
[05:35] Nexxy: besides bitch and cuss?
[05:35] Nexxy: if so, please show us
[05:35] Nuck: Nexxy: Yes, it's called Programming
[05:35] Nexxy: this is shit, that is shit, this is ugly as fuck, so is that
[05:35] denom: hah, forgot to increment my loop step
[05:35] descipher_ has joined the channel
[05:35] mosen: if only they used event driven, v8 based server platforms
[05:35] Nuck: Nexxy: The world has a lot of shit, forgive me for calling 'em as I see 'em
[05:35] mosen: (trying hard to turn this around)
[05:35] Nexxy: well hurry up and program superior replacements for all of these successful technologies you deem as worthless
[05:35] Nexxy: ^-^
[05:35] Daegalus: Well, i see the shit in iOS and im callin it as I see it
[05:35] Nuck: Android is successful merely because it's cheap
[05:36] Nuck: iOS has shit, I agree
[05:36] Nuck: It's not powerful at al
[05:36] Nuck: But for what I want, which is a portable device that does things quickly and Just Works, it's fine
[05:36] Nuck: Some people like Android because it's got more capabilities
[05:36] junkee[] has joined the channel
[05:36] Nuck: And I understand that
[05:37] Nuck: But WP7?  *really?*
[05:37] Daegalus: yes, because it has hte same capabilities
[05:37] Nuck: I'd bet you can make Android act like WP7
[05:37] Daegalus: You can, there is a WP7 launcher for Android
[05:37] Nuck: And you'd have better apps and less Microsoft
[05:37] Nuck: Because Microsoft is almost always shitty
[05:37] Nuck: 
ACTION points to Windows 8

[05:38] Nuck: (it's getting worse)
[05:38] Daegalus: haha, the apps on WP7 are top notch because Microsoft screens every single one for bugs, and if it has anything amiss, they shit it out back to you with a full bug report and QA. Then if it ever crashes they give you full Repro steps to fix it
[05:38] Daegalus: they dont let shit apps through 98% of hte time
[05:38] Daegalus: I like Win8 actually
[05:38] Nuck: Daegalus: What was this thing about Apple being "lockin"?
[05:39] Nuck: Wow, sure sounds like they found the steps to reproduce a Locked-down OS
[05:39] Nuck: And Windows 8 looks great.  For a tablet
[05:39] Daegalus: I said lockin as in they lock you in to Apple only software, with itunes, their iCloud, their Facetimes crap, etc.
[05:39] Nuck: Daegalus: I can use Skype for video chat, I can use Dropbox to get audio, I can jailbreak my iPhone, etc.
[05:40] Nuck: There's only as much lockin as you peg on it
[05:40] Daegalus: plus they have some of the stupidest and shittiest restrictions on developers. while Microsoft doesn't, they just check to see the app works and isnt crap
[05:40] Nuck: Hehe, I'll give them that one
[05:40] Nuck: But most of Apple's restrictions are understandable
[05:40] boxysean has joined the channel
[05:40] Nexxy: yeah like removing access to uuid
[05:40] Nexxy: completely logical
[05:41] Nuck: They aren't doing that yet, but I can see the problem, yeah
[05:41] Nuck: I understand it was being abused though
[05:41] Nexxy: it's how Apple says "We <3 Developers"
[05:41] Nexxy: no
[05:41] prettyrobots has joined the channel
[05:41] Nexxy: it was being used in a way only APPLE wants to be able to use it
[05:41] isaqual has joined the channel
[05:41] Nuck: UUID was being abused by advertising companies to keep track of ads
[05:41] Nuck: And that was not what it was meant for
[05:41] Nexxy: since when is that abuse?
[05:41] Nexxy: lol
[05:41] Nuck: So they removed it
[05:41] snowinferno has joined the channel
[05:41] Nuck: Well
[05:41] Nuck: Deprecated
[05:42] Nuck: An App can generate its own tokens
[05:42] Nuck: I expect the companies will find a workaround for the removal of UUIDs, anyways
[05:43] Nexxy: Nuck, 
[05:43] Nexxy: you're like the musically oblivious 8th grader meme
[05:43] Nexxy: only in text form 
[05:43] Nexxy: I want to package you up and sell you to millions
[05:44] Sixty4Bit has left the channel
[05:44] Nuck: But I'm too young to be a hooker D:
[05:45] Daegalus: Anyways, I think we can boggle this down to we all have our preferences, we all have shit that we hate, adn they dictate our choices. But I have a WP7 phone, Android tablet, a Macbook Air running OSX and Win7, and a Desktop running Linux/Win7. Oh and an Iphone 3g thats running Android. Soooo I use what i like in each instance
[05:45] Nuck: haha
[05:45] Nuck: That's quite a menagrie
[05:46] Nuck: Er, I misspelled that horribly
[05:46] Nuck: Eh, whatever
[05:46] Nexxy: Nuck, did you read this yet? http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-05-23/features/sfl-fv-blog-apple_1_apple-products-apple-users-apple-store
[05:47] Nexxy: I think it applies to you
[05:47] Daegalus: Oh and all my computers re getting Win8 when it comes out, and Im getting a Win8 tablet.
[05:47] ding has joined the channel
[05:48] Nexxy: Daegalus, have you seen windows 10 yet?
[05:48] Daegalus: ummmm no
[05:48] Nexxy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0_7BbNv1XE
[05:49] Nexxy: they went way minimalist!
[05:49] Nexxy: although win10 isn't released until 2024
[05:49] Nuck: hahaha Apple is a religiou, I agree
[05:49] Nuck: But not mine
[05:49] Nexxy: Nuck, then you realize how ridiculous you sound 90% of the time you're talking about an apple product?
[05:49] Nuck: It's not that I actually love Apple, it's that they're the best products right now
[05:50] Nuck: They're a few years ahead in each product they release: superlight laptops, tablets, smartphones, etc.
[05:50] Nexxy: perhaps for little kids and grandmas
[05:50] andrewfff has joined the channel
[05:50] Nexxy: there are a multitude of superlight laptops on the market
[05:50] Nuck: They take what has been tried, scrap the previous ideas, and make it actually useful
[05:50] Nuck: Not when Macbook air came out
[05:50] Nuck: Not nearly as thin
[05:51] Nuck: There's a reason they were able to corner the market for all the production equipment for unibodies
[05:51] ding: Hi all, I'm having trouble initializing a custom node module. I want to run an init() function before the exports are set. So, I made init() accept a callback, and then the callback defines the exports. However, that doesn't seem to work. Any suggestions?
[05:51] Nexxy: you can't really continuously change your definition of "Best" and expect people to take you seriously
[05:51] Nexxy: it's LIGHT! I MEAN eyecandied! No! Elegant!
[05:51] Nuck: Nexxy: They're everything
[05:51] Nexxy: religion
[05:52] Nuck: They have elegant eyecandy, they're lightweight, and they're powerful
[05:52] Nuck: They're a jack of all trades
[05:52] Daegalus: Nuck: I agree they have great hardware, but its not that far ahead. THey are currently falling behind in innovation, especially in teh iPhone and iPad as they arent keeping up hardware wise. Plus Samsugn makes just as good hardware becasue they make 50% of hte hardware in an iPhone/iPad, including the most important, the processor
[05:52] Nuck: And that makes them nice
[05:52] Nexxy: so powerful 
[05:52] Nexxy: they'll melt your face off
[05:52] Nexxy: with their lack of adequate cooling
[05:52] Nuck: Daegalus: Specs don't matter
[05:52] Nexxy: MOLTEN LAPTOP IS BEST LAPTOP
[05:52] Nuck: 
ACTION points to Wii

[05:52] Nexxy: 
ACTION points to fire hydrant

[05:52] Nuck: Lowest-specced system from that generation
[05:52] Nexxy: oh look! equally as irrelevant!
[05:52] Nuck: And yet, the most popular
[05:52] Nuck: Why?  It was groundbreaking
[05:52] Nexxy: why? because it came in white
[05:52] Nuck: It didn't build on a market, it *created* a market
[05:52] Daegalus: Nuck: To me they do, and yes, I have a brand new macbook air, its amazing hardware, but Samsung makes the same thing, and looks just as nice.
[05:53] Daegalus: Im with nexxy, the White i what sold me
[05:53] Daegalus: I like white electronics
[05:53] Daegalus: my iphone 3g is white
[05:53] Nexxy: there's a racist joke just waiting to happen
[05:53] Nuck: Daegalus: Samsunc makes the same thing *now*
[05:53] Nuck: They didn't when Apple released the Air
[05:53] Nexxy: Daegalus, nuck likes to judge current technology based on the standard 3 years ago
[05:53] Nuck: Apple does not innovate in small increments
[05:53] Nuck: They reinvent things every few years
[05:53] Daegalus: Nuck: Because they were too busy building the hardware inside it?
[05:54] Nuck: Daegalus: haha yeah, on Apple's specs
[05:54] Nuck: And Samsung still doesn't have unibodies, I'd bet
[05:54] SamuraiJack has joined the channel
[05:54] Nuck: Since Apple cornered the market for producing those aluminum unibodies
[05:54] Daegalus: No one does, because no one cares to invest in tehm. I personally dont care for unibodies, they make no difference ot me
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[05:55] Nuck: Daegalus: They're lighter, stronger, and thinner than a plastic case
[05:55] Nuck: So they're great for ultraslim laptops
[05:55] Daegalus: meh, a few millimeters doesnt matter to me
[05:55] Daegalus: Nexxy: I got that a while ago :P
[05:55] Nuck: As I understand, most ultraslims have been forced to use other things
[05:55] Nexxy: just making sure you were on the same page ;3
[05:56] Nexxy: it's more entertaining once you realize he's just insane
[05:56] Nuck: I judge Apple by the current situation at the time they release a product
[05:56] Nuck: So, I judge their performance with Macbook Air by the market at that time: no ultraslims like that
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[05:56] ericmuyser has joined the channel
[05:57] Nuck: iPhone: phones were "dumb terminals"
[05:57] Daegalus: I judge based on whats going to be released and how it will work for me and what I get out of it. Instead of jumping on the first thing Apple forfeeds me, I wait a month for all the nicer products tht are more my fit to come out. I prefer samsung hardware over Apple 90% o fhte time
[05:57] Nuck: iPad: tablets were failed ideas
[05:57] Nuck: Apple innovates in bursts at a very slow rate
[05:57] Nuck: Msot companies slowly build up
[05:57] Nuck: Compare laptops now to laptops 5 years ago, they look very similarly, and jsut have higher specs
[05:58] Nexxy: where is that infographic comparing the iPad to a compaq tablet from 2002
[05:58] Daegalus: To me thats really the most important part, the specs. I dont care if it looks like s asquare black brick, as long as it gives me the performance and specs I want
[05:58] Nuck: haha Nexxy
[05:58] Nuck: tablets weren't really big until iPad, then they grew into an actual product category aside from computers
[05:58] Daegalus: Hell, I think the Chromebook looks damn sexy. I love the chromebook
[05:59] Nexxy: lol
[05:59] Nuck: NOW we have Android Tablets
[05:59] Nexxy: Nuck
[05:59] Nexxy: you're talking about advertising power
[05:59] Nuck: I agree, Chromebook looks epic
[05:59] Nexxy: not device performance
[05:59] Nexxy: figure out what you're going to preach about
[05:59] Nexxy: lol
[05:59] Nuck: Nexxy: I could care less about performance
[05:59] Nexxy: obviously
[05:59] Nuck: I'm looking at their power to innovate in CONCEPT
[05:59] Daegalus: Nuck: Without Samsungs innovation, Apples innovation would be nowhere
[05:59] Nexxy: if it wasn't for objective consumers we'd still be sitting around with Apple IIs and loving it
[05:59] Nuck: Daegalus: Yup, they take other people's work and  refien it
[05:59] Nexxy: but they would just look SO pretty
[05:59] Nuck: I admit it
[06:00] thepatr1ck: good marketing is worthless without a good product, a good product goes nowhere without good marketing.
[06:00] Nexxy: thepatr1ck, dilbert comics disagree with you
[06:00] Nuck: Nexxy: If it weren't for Apple, we'd still be GUI-less
[06:00] Nuck: 
ACTION points to Apple Lisa

[06:00] Nuck: Mouse.
[06:00] Nexxy: Nuck, tell that to Xerox
[06:00] Nexxy: rofl
[06:00] Nuck: Nexxy: Xerox abandoned the concept
[06:00] TheCode: It's XEROX who did GUI
[06:00] thepatr1ck: Nexxy: I hate to say it, but dilbert isn't always right ;)
[06:00] Daegalus: Nexxy: you took teh words right out of my mind
[06:00] thepatr1ck: (mostly yes, but not always)
[06:00] Nuck: Xerox HAD the idea
[06:00] Dreamer3 has joined the channel
[06:00] Nexxy: lmao
[06:00] Nuck: But didn't see the potential
[06:01] Nexxy: you're just digging yourself a deeper hole at this point
[06:01] TheCode: No, they demoed it to JObs and party
[06:01] Nexxy: but it's highly entertaining
[06:01] Nuck: Hence why we never saw Xerox-branded computers
[06:01] thepatr1ck: has anyone here actually seen the XEROX GUI?
[06:01] TheCode: Steve Jobs did
[06:01] Daegalus: thepatr1ck: yes on their printers
[06:01] TheCode: :D
[06:01] Nexxy: thepatr1ck, yeah I was just at a self serve copy center
[06:01] thepatr1ck: (I haven't, but from what I have heard it's not very good)
[06:01] TheCode: It was primitive, so 
[06:01] Nuck: The Xerox GUI was really horrible, from what I hear
[06:01] Daegalus: Anyways, Jobs/Gates took the GUI idea from Xerox printers
[06:01] TheCode: It should have been
[06:02] Daegalus: SOmeone needs to stream Pirates of the Silicon Valley in here
[06:02] Nexxy: excuse me, Daegalus 
[06:02] Nuck: As I said,  they take other people's work and  refine it
[06:02] TheCode: It was a long long time ago
[06:02] Nexxy: this is Nuck's world
[06:02] Nexxy: Apple *invented* the GUI
[06:02] Nuck: They didn't invent it
[06:02] Nuck: They pioneered it
[06:02] Nuck: They took the idea and made it into what we know and love
[06:02] Nuck: Apple never creates
[06:02] Daegalus: Tell that to Windows 95
[06:02] Nuck: They made a wiser choice than that
[06:02] Nuck: Daegalus: Windows 95 created a Start button.
[06:03] TheCode: Nexxy is trolling I guess
[06:03] Nexxy: TheCode, no I was just playing into the delusion
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[06:03] Nuck: 
ACTION rolls his eyes

[06:03] TheCode: :)
[06:03] Nexxy: that's the only way you can reach those kinds of people
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[06:03] Nuck: Nexxy likes to pretend I'm delusional, it makes her feel better about herself.
[06:03] Nuck: :)
[06:03] Nexxy: I learned that from someone equally as deraned
[06:03] Nexxy: Nuck, it's true ;<
[06:04] abraxas has joined the channel
[06:04] Nexxy: don't h8
[06:04] Nuck: lol
[06:04] Nexxy: it's just
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[06:04] Nuck: But seriously, Apple is not an inventor, they are an innovator and a *pirate*
[06:04] Nuck: They steal
[06:04] Nuck: And refine
[06:04] Nuck: And market the stolen-and-refined result
[06:04] Nuck: It's a genius strategy, when you really think about it
[06:05] Daegalus: And when they run out of ideas they go into an almost bankruptcy slump like in the days pre-OSX
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[06:05] Nuck: Daegalus: That wasn't running out of ideas, that was not having Steve Jobs
[06:05] blkcat: ^
[06:05] Daegalus: Oh, well tehy are screwed now
[06:05] Nuck: In case you forgot, he was away at NeXT at that time
[06:05] stephank has joined the channel
[06:05] Nuck: Daegalus: No, they have Jobs' apprentive
[06:06] Nuck: And his concepts have reshaped the entire company
[06:06] thepatr1ck: that wasn't running out of ideas, that was having too many ideas that weren't well refined or executed. 
[06:06] Nuck: Haha very true thepatr1ck
[06:06] Daegalus: I think the best step Apple made was ditching PowerPC finally
[06:06] Nuck: I agree
[06:07] Nuck: They held onto PowerPC for way too long
[06:07] Nuck: Surprising they went to Intel at the time
[06:07] Nexxy: I feel like I'm watching a steve jobs/apple documentary on ketamine
[06:07] Nuck: But they made the right choice
[06:07] Daegalus: Funny though, OSX had an x86 version from the get go. 
[06:07] Daegalus: it was just never released till they switched over
[06:07] Nuck: Well, it was built on the OS he developed at NeXT
[06:08] Nuck: Whatever architecture was at NeXT, was carried over to Mac OS X
[06:08] Daegalus: Darwin was developed at NeXT?
[06:08] thepatr1ck: I think that was a case of keeping big developers like Adobe/Microsoft happy and not forcing two migrations (PPC->x86/x64) and Classic->Carbon/Cocoa
[06:08] Nuck: Daegalus: Partially
[06:08] thepatr1ck: at once
[06:08] Nexxy: Daegalus, LMFAO
[06:08] Nexxy: you're mean
[06:08] Nuck: Daegalus: The basis for it, yes.
[06:08] Nuck: Definitely there
[06:09] Daegalus: Nexxy: you got me. :P
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[06:09] Nuck: I still wonder why Darwin can't run OS X apps
[06:09] Nuck: lol
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[06:09] Nuck: It seems like it'd be easy as hell to hack together a way to run OS X apps on Darwin
[06:10] Nuck: thepatr1ck: That's an interesting theory
[06:10] Nexxy: fffff why is memegenerator down when I need it
[06:10] Nuck: Nexxy: Same servers as Apple Store :D
[06:10] Daegalus: Nuck: Umm, because of Cocoa
[06:10] Nuck: Daegalus: Shouldn't be too hard to port that onto Darwin
[06:11] Daegalus: If i remember right, its not open-source, so no one can compile it to anythign else
[06:11] thepatr1ck: Nuck: darwin can run core foundation apps can't it? just not AppKit ones
[06:11] Nuck: Yeah, I think it's the AppKit ones that don't work
[06:11] Nuck: But that's basically everything
[06:11] chjj: sourceforge is so atrocious
[06:11] chjj: it shouldnt take me 15 clicks to get to the code
[06:11] Nuck: chjj: Hence why github is growing?
[06:12] Nuck: All OS X native apps are done in AppKit these days
[06:12] thepatr1ck: Nuck: and I might be completely wrong about the time between OSX & intel, but it wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to minimise the scaring off of developers
[06:12] blkcat: chjj: whoa, sourceforge is still around?
[06:12] Nexxy: yay
[06:12] Nuck: thepatr1ck: I'm sure part of that period was also them letting developers port to x86
[06:12] chjj: blkcat: i guess so =/
[06:13] Nuck: They probably gave preview copies to companies like Adobe, so they could get started on the switch
[06:13] Nexxy: Nuck, you inspired me; http://i.imgur.com/R163d.jpg
[06:13] Nuck: I still feel somebody needs to port AppKit over to Darwin
[06:13] Daegalus: No one can, its not open-source, you gotta go ask Apple
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[06:14] thepatr1ck: Nuck: and yet adobe still took 2-ish years to ship a intel version for OS X
[06:14] dexter_e: have you guys notice that github has been shrinking lately ?
[06:14] Nuck: Daegalus: WINE.
[06:14] thepatr1ck: (mumble mumble, as at the time I was using various adobe tools)
[06:14] Nuck: dexter_e: No
[06:14] Nuck: Daegalus: ReactOS
[06:14] arlolra has left the channel
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[06:14] Nuck: Daegalus: Cygwin.
[06:14] dexter_e: Main Page numbers Sept 2:  981,870 people hosting over 2,701,968 git repositories
[06:14] Daegalus: Nuck: you can't WINE it because WINE is a Windows -> *nix translator. Unless you want ot write something form scratch
[06:14] Nuck: Need I continue naming similarly insane projects?
[06:15] thepatr1ck: dexter_e: nope. But then my work uses github & so do I, so if anything it's been increasing for me.
[06:15] dexter_e: Main Page Today: 972,315 people hosting over 2,746,701 git repositories
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[06:15] Daegalus: Cygwin was not that hard, it was all open-source
[06:15] dexter_e: I wonder how that number can go backwards?
[06:15] Daegalus: WINE, i agree was harder, but they emulated the entire Kernal stack to do it
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[06:16] Nuck: Daegalus: All you'd need to do is translate some calls for msot apps
[06:16] Nuck: Some things would be heavier
[06:16] Nuck: Like AppKit emulation, that's the hardest part
[06:16] Nuck: But stuff like filesystem? 
[06:16] Nuck: That's easy
[06:16] dexter_e: Its quite strange , its like 10,000 github accounts vanished over the span of 6 days ?
[06:16] chjj: conspiracy!
[06:16] Nuck: dexter_e: Eh, the repos went up tho
[06:16] Nuck: By 46k
[06:17] Nuck: well, 45
[06:17] chjj: oh my god, theyre turning people into repositories
[06:17] dexter_e: thats true
[06:17] mosen: GNUstep was originally created to be 1:1 API compatible with the NEXTStep windowing system.. thats the closest i can think of regarding AppKit compatibility efforts
[06:17] chjj: that is how they have so much webscale, its made out of people
[06:17] dexter_e: o'mg You're RIGHT , they ARE turning people into repositories
[06:17] Nuck: chjj: OH DEAR GOD PEOPLE ARE SERVERS
[06:17] Nuck: OH THE HUMANITY (OR SERVERANITY NOW)
[06:17] dexter_e: ahhHAFHAHH
[06:17] mosen: i git merged with another person
[06:18] Nuck: mosen: Kinky
[06:18] dexter_e: cybernetic kinky
[06:18] Daegalus: oh i hg pushed with another person
[06:18] Nuck: >:C Fuck Mercurial.  Git 4 LYFE
[06:18] chjj: i git merged with your nuck's mother, but there was a merge conflict
[06:18] dexter_e: hHFAHAHAHHAHAHASH
[06:18] Nuck: chjj: Yeah, my mom is 53, soooooooo
[06:19] Nexxy: chjj, unsupported architecture?
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[06:19] Daegalus: Mercurial > Git
[06:19] Daegalus:  :P
[06:19] Daegalus: 
ACTION starts another nerd war

[06:19] Nuck: Git is le awesome
[06:19] Nuck: If only because Github
[06:19] Nuck: And Linus Torvalds
[06:20] seutje has joined the channel
[06:20] chjj: did you see linus' encounter with that github dev?
[06:20] Nuck: Linux is on Github, so we win.
[06:20] chjj: on the pull request
[06:20] Nuck: chjj: Not in its entirety, link?
[06:20] steffan has joined the channel
[06:20] chjj: it didnt end well
[06:20] chjj: lol
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[06:20] Nuck: I saw the pull request, but not his response
[06:20] dominictarr: what is that?
[06:21] chjj: if i can find it
[06:21] Nuck: Linus Torvalds should outsource responses to pull requests to David Tennant.
[06:21] Nuck: We'll get nothing but snark.
[06:21] Nuck: But it will be awesome.
[06:21] chjj: https://github.com/torvalds/diveclog/pull/18
[06:21] Nuck: And if David Tennant can't do it all, there's always other great british comedians
[06:22] Nuck: well, actors who are awesome at snark
[06:24] chjj: that pull request will go down in history as the torvalds-schacon debate
[06:24] fmeyer has joined the channel
[06:25] dexter_e: anyone rocking JSDOM ?  
[06:25] dmkbot: joyent/node: tshinnic: add positioned writing feature to fs.WriteStream - https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/1645
[06:25] chjj: im not sure that i rock it
[06:25] dexter_e: "using"
[06:25] dexter_e: :)
[06:25] tomtomaso has joined the channel
[06:25] chjj: oh, not doing that either at the moment
[06:26] Nuck: haha I actually sorta agree with schacon
[06:26] dexter_e: How do you deal with script loading browser-side for things that have been bootstrapped server-side
[06:26] Nuck: Link stagnation is more important than having the username in there
[06:26] dexter_e: I notice JSDOM inserts script tags for anything bootstrapped on the server into the document
[06:26] apejens: Nuck:do you have a copy of the conversation somewhere?
[06:26] Nuck: But having the username in there *is* good too
[06:27] apejens: the pull req seems to be gone
[06:27] Nuck: It's still there
[06:27] Nuck: I'm looking at it right this very momeny
[06:27] Nuck: *moment
[06:27] Nuck: https://github.com/torvalds/diveclog/pull/18
[06:27] Nuck: That one?
[06:27] chjj: nuck: i understand why linus said github is messing with commits, if you saw this one pull request he got, the committer did the dumbest things, added random whitespace etc, so the diff was a mess
[06:27] chjj: probably lead him to believe that github was messing with things when it was that inept committer
[06:27] Nuck: chjj: Well, as schacon pointed out, that's from the web editor, and he admits it's a bad thing and that it'll be fixed soon
[06:28] chjj: i think we might be talking about different things
[06:28] Nuck: chjj: "Many people don't notice it because it's only really an issue for people that do a commit via the website, which isn't really super common (mainly for READMEs or single line changes)"
[06:29] arlolra has joined the channel
[06:29] Nuck: "The long lines are only for commits created using a 'Edit this File' button on the site - normally for small fixes and whatnot."
[06:29] arlolra has left the channel
[06:30] apejens: Nuck: ahh, closed, which is why I didn't see it quickly thanks :)
[06:30] Nuck: apejens: Thank chjj for finding it for me :P
[06:30] chjj: youre both welcome
[06:30] chjj: :)
[06:30] andrewfff has joined the channel
[06:31] Nuck: chjj: Am I misunderstanding this, or is schacon explaining that it's just from the web editor?
[06:31] mraleph has joined the channel
[06:31] Nuck: As for the 150-char lines, I think that's retarded
[06:31] Nuck: Get your own damn line wrapper
[06:31] amerine has joined the channel
[06:31] Nuck: Let me type, FGT
[06:31] Nuck: >:C
[06:31] Nuck: I will make my lines as long as I want
[06:32] chjj: why does nvidia suck, someone explain
[06:32] Nuck: chjj: Do they?
[06:32] Nuck: 
ACTION shrugs

[06:32] Nuck: I don't care about video cards that much
[06:32] Nuck: I'm not a gamer
[06:32] mykul|Home has joined the channel
[06:32] chjj: i do care about general performance though
[06:33] Nuck: I've got like 5 games I ever play
[06:33] chjj: and i do care about the whole battle for gl implementations on linux
[06:33] dominictarr: nvidia don't just do videocard
[06:33] chjj: cool
[06:34] Nuck: Are there GL languages other than OpenGL?
[06:34] Nuck: Well, except DirectX
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[06:34] chjj: GL is just another name for OpenGL
[06:34] dexter_e: anyone know if there is a channel devoted to JSDOM and WELD ?
[06:34] apejens: can't help but wonder if everyone gets the same help from schacon :p
[06:35] Nuck: almost 5GB of my "big files" moved over now :D
[06:35] robotmay has joined the channel
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[06:35] Nuck: But as it turns out, the total of big files is much smaller than I'd thought
[06:36] Nuck: Since I'd already moved many of them, and forgotten about it
[06:36] Nuck: Which makes me wonder where the fuck my HDD space is going
[06:36] Nuck: Meh, I'll treesize this later
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[06:42] TheCode: Come one Node should looks for modules in $NODE_PATH
[06:43] Nuck: We have it how we like it, thanks :D
[06:43] Nuck: ./node_modules
[06:43] Nuck: ../node_modules
[06:43] Nuck: ../../node_modules
[06:43] Nuck: and so on
[06:44] TheCode: it can't seem to find the modules from /usr/local/lib/node_modules/
[06:44] TheCode: where the -g switch installs them
[06:45] Nuck: Eh, sounds like a problem with NPM to me
[06:45] minemoney has joined the channel
[06:45] Nuck: Maybe it's shoving it in the wrong hole?
[06:45] TheCode: in the stink?
[06:45] Nuck: perhaps
[06:45] Nuck: I hear NPM's creator has the same issues
[06:45] Nuck: 
ACTION starts a nasty rumor about Isaac

[06:46] TheCode: npm installs them successfully
[06:46] TheCode: Node just can't find them
[06:46] Nuck: TheCode: As I said, amybe it's putting them in the wrong place
[06:46] Nuck: Node checks a very specific set of locations, I can't imagine it failing to resolve them
[06:46] TheCode: what's wrong about that place?
[06:47] TheCode: Oh wait
[06:47] Nuck: who knows, maybe it's just not Node's location?
[06:47] secoif: if I've got a child process, how can I simply spit out anything that appears on stdout, without a newline (ie no console.log)
[06:47] secoif: ie is there an eqivalent to console.log, without a newline
[06:48] Nuck: Eh, I think child.stdin.pipe(process.stdout)?
[06:48] Nuck: Something like that
[06:48] nephics has joined the channel
[06:48] Nuck: Since they're both Streams, they should be pipable
[06:48] AvianFlu: Nuck: what you just said last is true
[06:49] AvianFlu: I haven't read up for context
[06:49] AvianFlu: but I can vouch for what you just said
[06:49] mykul|Home has joined the channel
[06:49] Nuck: AvianFlu: What?
[06:49] secoif: I think I just need process.stdout.write
[06:49] secoif: thanks Nuck 
[06:49] Nuck: secoif: Well, if you're just piping, there's a utility for that already ;)
[06:49] AvianFlu: child.stdout.on('data', function (data) {} )
[06:49] AvianFlu: that's the other way
[06:49] tablasckmore has joined the channel
[06:50] AvianFlu: and then you'd take data and do like, total += data each time
[06:50] Nuck: In Node.js, they will shoot you if you don't make it modular
[06:50] AvianFlu: instead of logging each chunk
[06:50] groom has joined the channel
[06:50] AvianFlu: In the Node.js community, no one will shoot you
[06:50] Nuck: I disagree.  I once got chewed out by everyone in here for using globals.
[06:50] AvianFlu: we're nice
[06:50] secoif: hang on...
[06:50] Nuck: And I stand by my decision.
[06:51] AvianFlu: that's cause it's a dumb idea, people aren't just being mean
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[06:51] Nuck: AvianFlu: Globals are for global things, I use them for what they're designed for.
[06:51] Nuck: It's not like I'm misusing them or overusing them
[06:51] AvianFlu: that's certainly a true sentence, and I wish you the best!
[06:51] AvianFlu: don't get me wrong
[06:51] Nuck: I refuse to use them for anything that would be better served by require()
[06:51] secoif: I have child.stdout.on('data', function(data) {process.stdout.write('data')})
[06:51] AvianFlu: you just have a habit of sounding like you're re-inventing a wheel a lot of the time
[06:52] secoif: is there something wrong with that?
[06:52] Nuck: AvianFlu: Haha, it's always a learning experience for me
[06:52] secoif: (my code)
[06:52] minemoney has left the channel
[06:52] AvianFlu: secoif: no, I don't believe so
[06:52] dominictarr: secoif: use child.stdout.pipe(process.stdout, {end: false})
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[06:52] Nuck: secoif: If you're not modifying or dealing with the data, it's probably shinierto use pipe
[06:52] AvianFlu: yes
[06:52] secoif: thanks
[06:52] secoif: that looks cleaner
[06:52] AvianFlu: pipe handles a lot of stuff for you that needs to be handled
[06:52] Nuck: yeah
[06:53] secoif: yeah i'm not modifying the data
[06:53] Nuck: It deals with pauses and such
[06:53] Nuck: So it's a lot more robust
[06:53] AvianFlu: flow control, as opposed to control flow
[06:53] secoif: this is just in a build script, and I want to print the output of my test suite
[06:53] AvianFlu: yeah, pipe will work great for you there
[06:53] secoif: :D
[06:53] AvianFlu: streaming data FTW
[06:53] secoif: sweet
[06:53] AvianFlu: it's one of the great strengths of node, IMO
[06:53] secoif: AvianFlu++
[06:53] v8bot_:  secoif has given a beer to AvianFlu. AvianFlu now has 1 beers.
[06:53] catb0t: AvianFlu now has 1 beer
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[06:55] Nuck: I have found some great uses for pipe
[06:55] Daegalus: Hmm, can someone explain this pipe thing to me, I am not quite sure what people are refering to with it. What is it actually used for? (I might know already, just not sure)
[06:55] dominictarr: it's just using pipe without {end: false} will close process.stdout which will probably crash something soon.
[06:55] Nuck: Like taking data dumped into the body of an HTTP POST request, and piping it straight into a file
[06:56] Nuck: Daegalus: Basically, it takes Stream A and, as the name implies, pipes it to Stream B.
[06:56] dominictarr: it's like ls -1d | grep whatever | cat
[06:56] Daegalus: ok cool, makes sense. Kinda thought that but had to make sure
[06:56] Nuck: Yup, hence why it's named for that, dominictarr
[06:57] secoif: I'd like to see pipe used in the node examples more, every example uses console.log
[06:57] Nuck: hehe
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[06:57] Nuck: They should change that example for child_process to use pipe, I agree
[06:57] Nuck: But console.log does its job we
[06:57] Nuck: *well
[06:57] dominictarr: people should definately use pipe, and streams more, and for more things
[06:57] Nuck: dominictarr: Ayup
[06:58] Nuck: I still haven't finished my streaming multipart parser, but that'll come later
[06:58] dominictarr: https://github.com/dominictarr/event-stream
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[06:58] Nexxy: how I pipe irssi notifications over ssh to libnotify?
[06:58] Nuck: I've tabled that for now, since I have more important things to focus on, like implementing OAuth2 servers
[06:59] Nuck: Speaking of which, how should I modularize that?
[06:59] Nuck: That's the one thing that's eating at me
[06:59] Nexxy: very carefully
[07:00] thepatr1ck has joined the channel
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[07:00] shanebo: anybody ever written anything that allows you to email an email address and the webserver takes content from that email and saves it to the db?
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[07:01] thepatr1ck: I've modified the hell out of something that does that
[07:01] Nuck: If somebody can come up with a great common interface idea for how to unify database backends for OAuth, please tell me.
[07:01] shanebo: for example, what basecamp does on replying to threads via email...
[07:01] Nuck: That's the one thing I want so hard
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[07:01] aah: I've got about 20 services blowing out a redis instance.  any way of sharing a pool across VM instances?  do we have shared memory yet?
[07:01] shanebo: thepatr1ck was that in answer to me?
[07:01] Nuck: shanebo: I haven't, but I imagine it'd be easy to do with something like Haraka
[07:01] thepatr1ck: shanebo: yes, forgot to prefix it.
[07:02] shanebo: thepatr1ck can you give me pseudo code? I don't even know where to begin...
[07:02] Nuck: ewww pseudocode?
[07:02] Nuck: 
ACTION gags

[07:02] Nuck: 
ACTION codes directly in JS

[07:03] thepatr1ck: I took http://smtp2web.com/ and made it a whole lot better for my purposes (I actually parse the email there and do a normal form encoded POST instead of just passing the raw message)
[07:03] shanebo: Nuck, you know what pseudo code is right?
[07:03] Nuck: Yes, I do
[07:03] Nuck: Sadly
[07:03] shanebo: Nuck, so saying something like...
[07:04] chjj: cause it clearly has no use, now that weve gained this divine knowledge from lord nuck
[07:04] Nuck: haha it has use
[07:04] Nuck: But I don't bother with it
[07:04] Nuck: It's useful to some people
[07:04] Nuck: But it's an odd thing to share
[07:04] shanebo: email goes to webserver, webserver catches it and routes to a given url, you parse/prep/post
[07:04] yenz: chjj: nuck makes a lot more sense when you consider that he's oly like 15 or something ;)
[07:04] yenz: *only
[07:04] Nuck: Anyways, I think this would be an ideal situation for Haraka
[07:04] Nuck: yenz: Haha, I'm almost 18
[07:05] thepatr1ck: shanebo: it's python, and twisted and it's web interface lives on app engine for no apparent reason, but here is my source https://github.com/thepatrick/smtp2web
[07:05] Nuck: I've got a month
[07:05] Nuck: Barely
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[07:05] shanebo: thepatr1ck that's exactly what I'm looking for...
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[07:05] shanebo: there's no node js project like this though?
[07:05] Nuck: shanebo: Haraka is an evented mailserver
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[07:06] Nuck: I imagine you could hook recieve events and have it parse and such
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[07:06] thepatr1ck: Nuck: I might have to take a look at that and see if I can't replace my s2w with that
[07:06] shanebo: Haraka looks a little heavy… I'm looking for something simple and nimble..
[07:06] Nuck: I agree, Haraka does look eavy
[07:06] Nuck: If somebody slims it down, tell me, I'd like to make more use of it :P
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[07:07] Nuck: A simple library that provides an evented mail server, now THAT would be epic
[07:07] thepatr1ck: the advantage the smtp2web code has is that twisted provides 99% of an smtp server so writing something like s2w is piss easy.
[07:07] Nuck: You just do server.send(), etc.
[07:07] Nuck: thepatr1ck: My understanding is that Twisted provides 99% of EVERYTHING
[07:08] Nuck: Which sounds pretty horrific for me
[07:08] Nuck: I've been spoiled by the NodeJS structure
[07:08] shanebo: i'm using nodemailer for smtp and it's been great
[07:08] thepatr1ck: smtp2web (my version) for example is less than 500 lines (include whitespace, comments, and the ridiculous number of includes one writes when writing python)
[07:08] Nuck: shanebo: Ditto
[07:08] shanebo: thepatr1ck, nice! port it over to node ;)
[07:08] Nuck: Haraka needs to be cut into chunks
[07:09] thepatr1ck: Nuck: I would never choose python/twisted (I'm just more comfortable with node.js)
[07:09] Nuck: Like, ingoing, outgoing, etc.
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[07:09] Nuck: And a module for SMTP and whatnot
[07:10] Nuck: Is there a library that it uses to handle the raw email protocols? That is, the server-to-server protocols, not SMTP or IMAP
[07:10] shanebo: nodemailer has an smtp module… I wonder how hard it'd be to use that and hack something?
[07:10] Nuck: SMTP is outgoing only, shanebo
[07:10] Nuck: It communicates with a mail server to send emails
[07:10] Nuck: You'd need POP3 or IMAP for ingoing
[07:10] Nuck: Which is why I think Haraka should be split into chunks
[07:10] misterm: I used to have all sorts of fun with open SMTP servers, sigh
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[07:11] Nuck: misterm: Haha now they're not that common
[07:11] Nuck: There's like 10 SMTP servers on the internet these days
[07:11] misterm: indeed, they're mostly authenticated now
[07:11] Nuck: Centralization FTW
[07:11] misterm: for a long time hotmail did no SMTP auth, and they were like one of the biggest email providers, so much fun
[07:12] konobi: Nuck: server-to-server is still SMTP
[07:12] Nuck: `3rdEden: Quite a specific date you set for launching, huh?
[07:12] Nuck: konobi: Really?
[07:12] Nuck: Wow
[07:12] Nuck: I thought it was a different protocol D:
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[07:12] Nuck: That seems kinda silly, actually
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[07:12] konobi: um, yes... there's also LMTP in the mix... but generally, SMTP
[07:13] misterm: yea, smtp is still used
[07:13] konobi: Nuck: actually if you look over the history, it makes a bunch of sense
[07:13] misterm: but TLS is much more common now
[07:13] konobi: SMTP is _still_ SMTP
[07:13] Nuck: I thought SMTP was for communicating with a server to send an email
[07:13] konobi: TLS is just a transport mechanism
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[07:14] misterm: konobi: of course
[07:14] konobi: Nuck: same... fucking... difference
[07:14] Nuck: I didn't know SMTP was also the protocol communicating with the recieving server
[07:14] misterm: konobi: what I'm saying is theres much more authentication now
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[07:14] konobi: misterm: TLS != auth
[07:14] misterm: konobi: everyone used to just leave their smtp servers open
[07:14] Nuck: haha yeah
[07:14] Nuck: TLS is encryption
[07:14] Nuck: Not authentication
[07:15] misterm: well whatever the auth they added on top is called
[07:15] Nuck: misterm: Do you mean you used to fake their SMTP packets to communicat with servers?
[07:15] konobi: k... i need to back away from this convo before i start flipping out... =0)
[07:15] konobi: misterm: SMTP-Auth
[07:15] Nuck: konobi: Don't worry, I don't even know what he's talking about
[07:15] Nuck: I still want to see REST become the new SMTP
[07:15] Nuck: That'd be epic
[07:15] konobi: never happen
[07:15] Nexxy: lolwat
[07:15] Nuck: Not in this day and age
[07:16] TheCode: So HTTP servers will now play the role of SMTP servers?
[07:16] Nexxy: thank god
[07:16] Nuck: But maybe if RESTful APIs were thought up long ago
[07:16] Nexxy: every email would come from the same person
[07:16] madsleejensen has joined the channel
[07:16] Nexxy: on 90% of REST email servers
[07:16] Nuck: lol
[07:16] AvianFlu: fuck REST, dnode FTW
[07:16] konobi: fuck... they're stil writing hardware, to run software than ran on specific hardware during the 60s
[07:16] AAA_awright: I want to do away with servers
[07:16] konobi: shit, never, dies
[07:16] Nuck: REST > dnode for an API
[07:16] AAA_awright: AvianFlu: Those are two completely seperate use cases!
[07:16] TheCode: what's dnode?
[07:16] AvianFlu: that's what you think
[07:17] AvianFlu: http://github.com/substack/dnode
[07:17] Nuck: konobi: I know, my dad used to work with mainframes :'(
[07:17] TheCode: ok
[07:17] Nuck: AvianFlu: Dnode is NOT for a good API
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[07:17] AvianFlu: lololol
[07:17] Nuck: DNode locks your client in
[07:17] AAA_awright: I want to do away with servers, and replace it with a p2p network, identifying destinations with public key hashesd
[07:17] Nexxy: lol
[07:17] konobi: Nuck: have a look at a language called 'H' =0)
[07:17] AvianFlu: "locks your client in"?
[07:17] Nuck: REST is way better
[07:17] Nuck: AvianFlu: DNode is in the same category as socket.io, realtime communications
[07:17] secoif: Nuck how often do you change that kind of stuff anyway
[07:18] Nuck: It's for RPC
[07:18] Nexxy: what do you think REST is for? ;o
[07:18] Nuck: And RPC is not great for outward-facing APIs
[07:18] AvianFlu: I mean, seriously
[07:18] Nuck: REST is a cleaner style of RPC
[07:18] Nuck: It treats things more as resources
[07:18] misterm: isn't dnode built on top of socket.io
[07:18] Nuck: Is it?
[07:18] Nexxy: I um... wow
[07:18] AvianFlu: you're invoking remote methods, I only see style differences past that
[07:18] Nuck: I thought it was a different approach to it
[07:18] misterm: I don't know, that's why I'm asking
[07:19] Nuck: AvianFlu: And REST is a better outward-facing style
[07:19] TheCode: dnode, I was looking for some XML snippet. I didn't find it, so it must be good.
[07:19] Nuck: It's easy as hell to implement in any language
[07:19] Nuck: DNode is a more specific thing
[07:19] Nexxy: lol
[07:19] Nexxy: every time I look in here
[07:19] Nuck: And that's why I argue that it's not right
[07:19] Nexxy: nuck is arguing about something
[07:19] Nuck: Hell, DNode is two-way
[07:19] springmeyer has joined the channel
[07:19] Nexxy: which which he hasn't the slightest
[07:19] Nexxy: with which*
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[07:20] Nexxy: talk less, code moar
[07:20] Nuck: Nexxy: Says the person who constantly argues with me.
[07:20] Nexxy: only for entertainment
[07:20] Nuck: Neither of us have any room to talk about that.
[07:20] Nexxy: I'm starting to think you're serious
[07:20] Nexxy: lol
[07:20] Nuck: Dnode is a nice concept, I'll give it that, but it's not built for a request-response setup
[07:21] Nuck: That's what HTTP is for
[07:21] Nuck: It exists for a reason
[07:21] SubStack: Nuck: except for the part where REST is horrible for asynchronous requests
[07:22] Nuck: Howso?
[07:22] Nuck: SubStack: I see no reason why it's so bad
[07:22] SubStack: polling
[07:22] SubStack: polling is bad
[07:22] Nuck: That's not Async
[07:22] Nuck: I can do an sync XHR request
[07:22] TheCode: npm keeps installing the modules at /usr/local/lib, I have NODE_PATH=/usr/local/bin/node:/usr/local/bin/node/lib/node_modules. what gives?
[07:22] Nuck: That's two-way realtime
[07:22] Nuck: It does suck for realtime, I agree entirely
[07:23] TheCode: does npm have a config file?
[07:23] Nuck: But Async is fine either way
[07:23] Nexxy: a sink is fine too
[07:23] Nuck: Nexxy: A cat is fine too
[07:23] Nexxy: what?
[07:24] Nuck: You've never seen a cat is fine too?
[07:24] Nuck: It was like the earliest "is fine too"
[07:24] cosmincx has joined the channel
[07:24] Nexxy: for some reason
[07:24] Nexxy: I don't think I want to know
[07:24] Nuck: yeaaaaah it was a pretty creepy thing
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[07:25] Nuck: But, I've seen worse.
[07:25] Nexxy: ok wow that's disgusting
[07:25] Nexxy: why would you
[07:25] Nexxy: nevermind
[07:25] Nuck: I've still seen worse
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[07:25] Nexxy: keep it to yourself please :)
[07:26] Nuck: there's so many memes based on wierd fetishist hentais, it really worries me about the fact that these things actually have markets
[07:26] Nexxy: please refer to my previous statement.
[07:26] jesusabdullah: Hey Nexxy!
[07:26] Nexxy: jesusabdullah, !
[07:28] TheCode: npm root -g --> /usr/local/lib/node_modules, but it installs them at /usr/local/lib
[07:28] TheCode: bug?
[07:28] kiffness has joined the channel
[07:29] jesusabdullah: Nexxy: !
[07:29] AvianFlu: TheCode, /usr/local/lib/modulename, you're saying?
[07:29] jesusabdullah: haha :3
[07:29] TheCode: yep
[07:29] TheCode: should be /usr/local/lib/node_modules/modulename
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[07:29] Nuck: Man, if you can't handle A Cat Is Fine Too, you're weak.
[07:29] Nuck: There's creepier stuff on EVERY page of ED.
[07:30] TheCode: Darwin OS
[07:30] jbpros has joined the channel
[07:30] Nexxy: jesusabdullah, !
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[07:30] Nexxy: jesusabdullah, listen!
[07:30] Nuck: 
ACTION rages

[07:30] Nuck: STFU NAVI
[07:31] skm has joined the channel
[07:31] Nexxy: Nuck, I'm playing him a tune
[07:31] Nexxy: get off it
[07:32] igl1 has joined the channel
[07:32] Nuck: But Navi
[07:32] Ned_ has joined the channel
[07:32] Nuck: That annoying little white sphere of glowiness
[07:32] Nexxy: is this another one of your perverted manga thigns?
[07:32] Nuck: No
[07:33] Daegalus: zelda
[07:33] Nexxy: oh yeah! I love him!
[07:33] jesusabdullah: Nexxy: HEY! HEY!
[07:33] Nuck: Navi is the fairy from Legend of Zelda
[07:33] jesusabdullah: hahaha :D
[07:33] Nexxy: with the sword
[07:33] Nexxy: and the shield
[07:33] Nuck: Zelda is a she
[07:33] Nuck: And a princess
[07:33] Nuck: The guy is Link
[07:33] jTNT: js is your sword / html5 is your shield ...
[07:33] Nexxy: ;3
[07:33] Nuck: Hey, listen!
[07:33] Nuck: jTNT: Judging by HTML5's logo, yes
[07:33] TheCode: +1 jTNT
[07:33] JaKWaC has joined the channel
[07:33] Nuck: Though I prefer The Oatmeal's comment on there.
[07:34] Nuck: The HTML5 Cheetah Balls comment was just epic
[07:35] Nuck: Because seriously, who cares if the logo is Cheetah Balls, as long as it's epic
[07:35] TheCode: link?
[07:36] jTNT: http://www.kniqueknaques.com/html-5-cheetah-balls
[07:36] [AD]Turbo has joined the channel
[07:36] Nuck: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/state_web_winter
[07:36] Nuck: That's the source
[07:36] Nuck: It's all epic
[07:36] Nuck: 
ACTION <3 The Oatmeal

[07:36] Nuck: He created the Tumbeasts
[07:36] Nuck: Which are no longer used :'(
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[07:38] [AD]Turbo: yo
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[07:39] Nuck: Can't argue with this logic: http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/state_web_summer/microsoft.jpg
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[07:45] Nuck: Man, SCP is fucking slow
[07:46] Nuck: Should probably think of a better way to transfer these files once I'm onto Linux
[07:46] Nuck: Until then I ain't bothering
[07:47] Nuck: Some of these nicks seem like URL squatters lol
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[07:52] Nuck: Oi vey, 650KiB/s is too slow for me
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[07:53] Daegalus: Nuck: SFTP
[07:54] Nuck: Tempting but too much work
[07:54] Nuck: I've already got this channel, I'll stick to it for now
[07:55] robhawkes has joined the channel
[07:55] Nuck: It's rare that I need to do such high-volume transfers
[07:55] Nuck: And I assume I can do some NFS or something to mount this locally once I get everything set up and am on Linux
[07:55] radiodario has joined the channel
[07:56] Lorentz: If you can scp, you can sshfs
[07:57] Lorentz: Unless you're saying the actual transfer speed is slow
[07:57] Nuck: Well, I'm on Windows right now
[07:57] Nuck: On WinSCP
[07:57] Nuck: Once I'm on Linux, I'll mount the folder locally and not bother much with lag
[07:57] wbednarski has joined the channel
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[07:57] Nuck: or speeds
[07:57] Nuck: but in a high-volume transfer like this, I want speeeeeeed
[07:58] Nuck: Still, I've gotten 12GB backed up over SCP already
[07:58] Nuck: And it's going a bit faster at points, sometimes up to a megabyte a second
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[08:00] junkee[]: anyone willing to test my node-gir module at https://github.com/swick/node-gir?
[08:00] wbednarski has joined the channel
[08:01] Nuck: Is it a tiny robot that emo kids love?
[08:01] Nuck: From Jhonen Vasquez's cartoon?
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[08:01] Daegalus: Nuck: try using Filezilla and SFTP, usually SSH servers that can SCP can SFTP
[08:02] Nuck: Eh, it's a home server
[08:02] Nuck: I set up SSH
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[08:02] Daegalus: then it shoudl support SFTP
[08:02] Nuck: Hmm
[08:03] Nuck: I might do that
[08:03] Nuck: I think WinSCP has SFTP support
[08:03] Nuck: Is it faster than SCP?
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[08:03] Daegalus: it should be
[08:03] Nuck: I'll give it a go in half an hour when this batch of files finishes
[08:04] Nuck: I've transferred 1.6GB already in just this one batch of files
[08:04] Nuck: In 40 minutes
[08:04] Nuck: lol
[08:04] Nuck: Not the best speeds
[08:05] Nuck: Daegalus: Isn't SFTP FTP tunneled over SSH?
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[08:05] jetienne_: scp is not efficient on many small files
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[08:05] Nuck: jetienne_: Eh, true
[08:05] jetienne_: much better on a large file. like a tar 
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[08:05] Daegalus: Nuck: no thats FTPS
[08:05] Daegalus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSH_File_Transfer_Protocol
[08:06] Nuck: ah
[08:06] Nuck: Secure FTP actually
[08:06] Nuck: FTPS is TLS + FTP
[08:07] shanebo: so did someone build me a tiny, clean, node mail server?
[08:07] shanebo: :P
[08:07] Nuck: No
[08:07] shanebo: hahahaha
[08:07] Nuck: I still want somebody to tear down Haraka into pieces
[08:07] Nuck: SubStack-sized bits
[08:07] shanebo: is that his doing?
[08:07] Nuck: Nope
[08:07] Nuck: But he's the standard for modules
[08:08] Nuck: He's put out something like 100 of them I think
[08:08] shanebo: eeeeeww standards
[08:08] shanebo: those are so like 1995
[08:08] Nuck: lol
[08:08] Nuck: I disagree
[08:08] shanebo: why wouldn't you just free flow in node dude?
[08:08] Nuck: 
ACTION points to HTML5 and CSS3 and ECMAScript 5

[08:08] Nuck: Standards.
[08:08] Nuck: shanebo: I freeflow too
[08:08] shanebo: in javascript
[08:08] Nuck: More than anyone else here
[08:08] shanebo: all in javascript
[08:08] wbednarski has joined the channel
[08:08] Nuck: But he's the ruler
[08:09] Nuck: As in, he's what we all measure against
[08:09] shanebo: you should write your english papers in js
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[08:09] shanebo: who needs outlines?
[08:09] shanebo: just free flow
[08:09] shanebo: ;)
[08:09] Nuck: shanebo: I took a Basic Computer Literacy class, I wrote my assignments once in JSON.
[08:09] Nuck: I knew the teacher knew JS, he'd mentioned it
[08:09] shanebo: haha
[08:09] Nuck: So I did it for shits and giggles
[08:09] rmzg: Speaking of utter insanity, anyone have any pointers with combining domjs+weld and express?
[08:10] bergie has joined the channel
[08:10] shanebo: i actually typeset all documents in html/css and save as PDF
[08:10] dexter_e_: rmzg: 2nd that 
[08:10] shanebo: what is weld?
[08:11] Nuck: shanebo: I recently attempted to create an ePub from the oAuth 2 spec
[08:11] Nuck: I still don't get WHY they wouldn't use HTML for that
[08:11] Nuck: Seriously, guys LRN2MARKDOWN
[08:11] rmzg: dexter_e_: Hrm?
[08:11] Nuck: All specs should be written in Markdown
[08:11] dexter_e_: weld is a library which uses CSS #ids to target data insertion instead of {{ }} delimiter based string replacement
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[08:12] shanebo: i see
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[08:12] AvianFlu: weld FTW
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[08:13] AvianFlu: #nodejitsu is a place to get help for that, but more so during US business hours :(
[08:13] rmzg: It's like seamstress BUT HIP AND TRENDY
[08:13] dexter_e_: in combination with JSDOM it allows one to insert live data without destroying your HTML with string replacement delimiters 
[08:14] dexter_e_: additionally your templates and HTML remains portable and transferable to other architectures and isn't contingent on any one string replacement library 
[08:14] dexter_e_: weld FTW indeed
[08:14] rmzg: Yeah, I'm starting to be convinced by the general idea
[08:14] rmzg: I feel compelled to point out that it's not new -_-
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[08:15] Nuck: hmm
[08:15] Nuck: Does Weld work on the client side?
[08:15] dexter_e_: rmzg: I believe that. I'd love to see an example of the JSDOM weld.js precursors if you have one?
[08:15] rmzg: It should
[08:15] Nuck: I could build on that, I think
[08:15] dexter_e_: Nuck   weld works browser-side and server-side
[08:15] rmzg: dexter_e_: http://search.cpan.org/~tbone/HTML-Seamstress-2.6/lib/HTML/Seamstress.pod
[08:15] Nuck: Ewww CPAN
[08:16] Nuck: Not Perl
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[08:16] dexter_e_: still though,  good example
[08:16] rmzg: http://search.cpan.org/~flora/HTML-Zoom-0.009006/lib/HTML/Zoom.pm
[08:16] rmzg: Nuck: Don't worry, someday, maybe in another 10 years, another language will catch u =[
[08:16] rmzg: up*
[08:17] AAA_awright: I just use RDFa to do data
[08:17] AAA_awright: Templating
[08:17] AAA_awright: Is that a word, templating?
[08:17] jesusabdullah: shanebo: Were you asking about weld? I did some weld not too long ago, might be able to answer some questions
[08:17] rmzg: Tell me more
[08:17] rmzg: jesusabdullah: I was
[08:17] jesusabdullah: AAA_awright: IT IS NOW
[08:17] jesusabdullah: ah
[08:17] jesusabdullah: shanebo: NEVERMIND
[08:17] AAA_awright: rmzg: About RDFa templates?
[08:17] jesusabdullah: rmzg: What about it? I missed that
[08:18] shanebo: jesusabdullah, I'm needing help with sending an email to a webserver which routes to a web app
[08:18] AAA_awright: http://magnode.org/rdfa-templating/ <-- Tada
[08:18] rmzg: AAA_awright: Yes!
[08:18] AAA_awright: rmzg: Are you familiar with RDF?
[08:18] rmzg: jesusabdullah: I was just wondering what the sanest way to combine it with express was
[08:18] rmzg: AAA_awright: I'm learning!
[08:18] jesusabdullah: shanebo: What now?
[08:18] AAA_awright: It's just a data model that makes statements about resources
[08:18] jesusabdullah: rmzg: Not sure! I find the hardest part server-side is juggling the jsdom
[08:19] AAA_awright: rmzg: Well the idea behind RDFa templates is you specify patterns that need to be filled with RDF facts from an RDFa data store
[08:19] jesusabdullah: since you want to share a single jsdom with all uses of your templating
[08:19] AAA_awright: So you don't need to pass any data to the template, it just fills itself out
[08:19] AAA_awright: Well, you pass the database, and a few arguments
[08:19] jesusabdullah: Bizarre
[08:19] AAA_awright: But you don't have to do any queries, the RDFa template engine does the queries for you
[08:19] radiodario: good morning
[08:19] dexter_e_: jesusabdullah: It sounds like you have experience with JSDOM, How do you manage the server-side embeded scripts colliding with browser-side intended scripts ?
[08:19] rmzg: AAA_awright: Sounds like php ^_^
[08:20] Nuck: AAA_awright: Sounds widly inefficient
[08:20] jesusabdullah: dexter_e_: What do you mean?
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[08:20] AAA_awright: And the AWESOMELY COOL THING is that all the data that went into buildint the template, you can extract back from it and build the same data used to build it
[08:20] springmeyer has joined the channel
[08:20] rmzg: jesusabdullah: The example in the weld docs seem a little clumsy, loading the html file each time and so on, to be useful to render responses in Express
[08:20] dexter_e_: jesusabdullah:  JSDOM inserts script tags for the scripts used at server runtime right ?
[08:21] AAA_awright: Nuck: It's really not, at runtime it's as efficent as running the queries and passing the result to a template yourself
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[08:21] jesusabdullah: AAA_awright: I've no promblem with rdf. I haven't really explored it and it seems like roughly 50% of semantic web ideas are stale now, but I suspect that's pretty neat
[08:21] AAA_awright: It's WICKED NEAT
[08:21] jesusabdullah: Yeah, I bet it pretty much *is* the query language AAA_awright 
[08:21] AAA_awright: I have a working example
[08:21] AAA_awright: Which is the basis of my CMS, http://magnode.org/
[08:21] rmzg: AAA_awright: Sure but how do you cache the queries?
[08:21] jesusabdullah: rmzg: so you're talking about server-side?
[08:21] AAA_awright: Uh, you don't really
[08:21] rmzg: 502 BAD GATEWAY
[08:22] AAA_awright: rmzg: That's up to the database to do
[08:22] rmzg: jesusabdullah: Oh, of course
[08:22] rmzg: 
ACTION points at the channel name

[08:22] jesusabdullah: haha
[08:22] jesusabdullah: well
[08:22] jesusabdullah: it's a dual-sided library silly!
[08:22] Nuck: I actually would bet that dumping a whole database to Node and querying in RDF is worse than querying through Mongo
[08:22] AAA_awright: Nuck: YOu don't dump the whole database, just the connection
[08:22] jesusabdullah: Unfortunately not browserify-able iirc (because of weld trixxx)
[08:22] Nuck: AAA_awright: Ah, so it queries for me?
[08:22] AAA_awright: Which, in the current state of my app, I am storing the database as a Javascript Object
[08:22] AAA_awright: Nuck: Yeah
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[08:23] AAA_awright: Nuck: It pretty much rewrites it to a SPARQL query
[08:23] Nuck: AAA_awright: Is it compatible with Mongo?
[08:23] dexter_e has joined the channel
[08:23] AAA_awright: There's no reason it couldn't be
[08:23] rmzg: jesusabdullah: Wait, it doesn't work in the browser?
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[08:23] Nuck: ... SPARQL?
[08:23] AAA_awright: hmm
[08:23] AAA_awright: It would be a LOT more complex to do
[08:23] jesusabdullah: Anyways, I'd imagine that you'd just grab your hrml, make it the innerHTML of a div, weld your shit and then innerHTML it back out
[08:23] Orion-: Hello
[08:23] jesusabdullah: right?
[08:23] Nuck: hehe
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[08:23] AAA_awright: But if you can extract RDF facts from MongoDB, and had all the right indexes on it, you could do it
[08:23] jesusabdullah: rmzg: No, it works in the browser, just not with the "browserify" tool
[08:23] rmzg: oh
[08:24] jesusabdullah: You load it directly
[08:24] Nuck: AAA_awright: I intend to do something like that for my client on my site
[08:24] AAA_awright: And as a bonus, you get semantically-rich webpages generated
[08:24] rmzg: What is browserify then?
[08:24] dexter_e: jesusabdullah: Just wondering how you bootstrap the script which modify your html  env or jsdom.jsdom ?
[08:24] Nuck: It's gonna generate a DOM, then insert the data
[08:24] AAA_awright: I seriously think this is how you're supposed to generate webpages
[08:24] AAA_awright: Like, the proper way to do so
[08:24] jesusabdullah: Oh, you use node code inside the jsdom
[08:24] Nuck: AAA_awright: I agree, but it seems like a heavier tool than I'd want
[08:24] rmzg: AAA_awright: That sounds awful similar to what these other examples are doing
[08:24] AAA_awright: It is heavy, but it's SO POWERFUL
[08:25] Nuck: I want something lightweight but easy to manage
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[08:25] rmzg: haha
[08:25] AAA_awright: It doesn't just generate webpages, it actually embeds the data inside the webpage, that was used to generate the webpage
[08:25] dexter_e: jesusabdullah:  are you using env() or jsdom.jsdom and createWindow()   ?
[08:25] AAA_awright: mind = blown
[08:25] jesusabdullah: env, yo
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[08:25] Nuck: I'll probably write a setup that handles it for me in jQuery
[08:25] Nuck: I just provide a data object and a DOM node
[08:25] Orion-: Can anyone tell me if it's possible to get the memory address of an object in js to track memory leaks. I have a socket object but it seems to be duplicated after it's been re-assigned ?
[08:25] jesusabdullah: Think of it this way: All env does is pass a "window" object to a callback
[08:25] Nuck: And it'll insert the data into the DOM based on classes and such
[08:25] dexter_e: jesusabdullay: are you booting the scripts for modifying the dom inside the env() method ?
[08:26] jesusabdullah: it *just* implements the window object
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[08:26] Nuck: Less than 5 minutes until I can switch to SFTP
[08:26] Orion-: I mean it seems to be living on it's own at some point with no reference to the old one
[08:26] rmzg: jesusabdullah: Can you tell me what the jsdom.env(jquery.js) does for you?
[08:26] jesusabdullah: Wait, why?
[08:26] AAA_awright: rmzg: You still use for-each tags and stuff, and where you have some part you need filled-in you use a $variable or just leave it empty (an anonymous variable)
[08:26] jesusabdullah: It should be
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[08:27] kuebk: j0
[08:27] rmzg: AAA_awright: Oh, ew =[
[08:27] Nuck: AAA_awright: Can you show a basic example of the syntax for a template?
[08:27] rmzg: AAA_awright: How is that different from php?
[08:27] AAA_awright: It's implemented as an extension to Jade
[08:27] Nuck: As it is, I use EJS
[08:27] Nuck: wait, what?
[08:27] Nuck: it's Jade-syntax?
[08:27] AAA_awright: I use a for-each tag, like, XML
[08:28] AAA_awright: It's easier to parse
[08:28] AAA_awright: Yeah
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[08:28] jesusabdullah: env(rawHtmlSource, [ "./a/script.js", "./jquery.js", "./loaded/browser/style" ], function (window) {
[08:28] Nuck: 
ACTION stops paying attention

[08:28] jesusabdullah:     // Node code here
[08:28] kuebk: whois kuebk
[08:28] jesusabdullah: });
[08:28] jesusabdullah: iirc
[08:28] rmzg: jesusabdullah: Right, but why do you need to load jquery and so on?
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[08:28] Nuck: Sorry, I don't do Jade.
[08:28] jesusabdullah: rmzg: Only if you *want* jquery
[08:28] Nuck: rmzg: Because it's jQuery
[08:28] Nuck: And Sizzle
[08:28] jesusabdullah: rmzg: You can also do
[08:28] Nuck: Is awesome.
[08:29] rmzg: Nuck: I'm quite fond of jquery.. in the browser!
[08:29] jesusabdullah: env(rawHtmlSource, function (window) { /*Fuck jquery*/ });
[08:29] AAA_awright: Nuck rmzg: http://pastebin.com/pWULHDrt
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[08:29] Nuck: Though I guess you can map $ to QuerySelector
[08:29] jesusabdullah: jquery is handy for smexy selectors if you're doing webscraping
[08:29] rmzg: Ohh
[08:29] shanebo: jQuery is terrible
[08:29] jesusabdullah: A word of warning, though: webscraping with jsdom is kinda slow
[08:29] rmzg: jesusabdullah: Is the env arguments importing libraries for use inside your window callback function?
[08:30] AAA_awright: rmzg: So wherever Jade encounters an undefined variable, it assumes it has to fill that in from the database
[08:30] jesusabdullah: rmzg: Yeah
[08:30] AAA_awright: And it uses the RDFa parser to figure out what triples it needs to query for
[08:30] dexter_e: jesusabdullah: With your current code, are you running into any problems with JSDOM inserting your <script> tags at the end of body ?
[08:30] jesusabdullah: So, if you load jquery, then window has a $ property
[08:30] Nuck: Fuck jsdom, just use phantomjs
[08:30] jesusabdullah: dexter_e: I haven't seen that, but who knows?
[08:30] Nuck: lol
[08:31] rmzg: Nuck: Elevator pitch for phantomjs, go
[08:31] rmzg: jesusabdullah: I see now.
[08:31] jesusabdullah: if you can make phantomjs do what you need it to do, by all means imo
[08:31] Nuck: rmzg: It's a full fucking browser on JS.
[08:31] Nuck: So fuck yeah.
[08:31] rmzg: Sounds slow
[08:31] rmzg: =]
[08:31] Nuck: Sure is
[08:31] Nuck: haha
[08:31] rmzg: haha
[08:31] dexter_e: jesusabdullah: Do you use two sets of JS files to modify your HTML , one server one client ?
[08:31] jesusabdullah: rmzg: I don't think that's accurate
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[08:32] Nuck: I'm pretty sure it's as fast as Wbkit though
[08:32] rmzg: dexter_e: Why would you do that?
[08:32] Nuck: Minus rendering
[08:32] jesusabdullah: Yeah, I don't really get it either dexter_e. Either you do everything client-side, or you do everything server-side
[08:32] jesusabdullah: either use weld to render client-side sent from a restful JSON interface, or use weld to render server-side before sending out
[08:33] dexter_e: rmzg: because certain things in client-side JS will behave differently, example stateChange -updates url bar,  stateChange calls tracking function etc. 
[08:33] rmzg: jesusabdullah: Reading the weld docs (over and over again) the main flaw seems to be how you specify which dom element to 'weld' against
[08:33] jesusabdullah: I believe phantomjs is a headless webkit browser designed for remote testing
[08:33] jesusabdullah: that's what I recall
[08:33] jesusabdullah: rmzg: You either have your element assigned to a handle when you create it, or you use the dom's built-in selectors to get the thing you want
[08:33] Nuck: that's what it is, but it's controlled in JS APIs
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[08:34] rmzg: jesusabdullah: Right, but doing that without repeating a lot of ugly code seems tricky
[08:34] jesusabdullah: rmzg: Or, you add jquery to that array argument, and use window.$ to select
[08:34] kiffness_ has joined the channel
[08:34] Nuck: lol
[08:35] Nuck: Or QuerySelector
[08:35] dexter_e: jesusabdullah: Running the same set of JS files on server and client and after the app arrives in the browser it handles itself completely in the browser.
[08:35] Nuck: Does jsdom have that?
[08:35] jesusabdullah: yes
[08:35] rmzg: jesusabdullah: Surely you don't repeat the jsdom.env(... function() { ... window.fiddle.faddle( stuff ).bar } ) in every route
[08:35] jesusabdullah: that's what I was referring to
[08:35] Nuck: Then var $ = window.QuerySelector
[08:35] Nuck: And done
[08:35] jesusabdullah: rmzg: No, definitely not.
[08:35] jesusabdullah: rmzg: Like I said, that's the weird part
[08:35] rmzg: Well, yeah
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[08:36] Nuck: That's the main thing I have against the DOM functions that are built-in
[08:36] Nuck: They're fucking /wordy/
[08:36] rmzg: jesusabdullah: So how do you handle that?
[08:36] jesusabdullah: rmzg: Just take the window object and toss it around
[08:36] Nuck: It reminds me of some site's TOS
[08:36] rmzg: hrm
[08:36] dexter_e: jesusabdullah: If thats the case, how do you ship you JS files to the browser? Just using what env() does automatically?
[08:36] jesusabdullah: dexter_e: What?
[08:36] rmzg: jesusabdullah: I'm wondering if you could just pass a series of data elements that describes the replacements necessary
[08:36] jesusabdullah: dexter_e: No, jsdom has nothing to do with client/server stuff
[08:36] dexter_e: where do you embed your JS files?
[08:36] rmzg: dexter_e: embed?
[08:36] Nuck: ooooh yeah
[08:36] jesusabdullah: What do you mean? Embed where?
[08:36] Nuck: SFTP is way better
[08:37] dexter_e: <script></script>
[08:37] Nuck: 1.5Mbps on average
[08:37] Nuck: At least
[08:37] dexter_e: how do you deliver your JS files to the browsr?
[08:37] rmzg: dexter_e: <script src=jquery.js> ?
[08:37] jesusabdullah: dexter_e: whose js files?
[08:37] Nuck: requirejs :D
[08:37] Nuck: lolno
[08:37] Nuck: I'll use headjs when I'm done
[08:37] dexter_e: JSDOM inserts <script></script> tags outside the body 
[08:38] dexter_e: do you just use the default <script> tags created by JSDOM to ship your JS to the browser ?
[08:38] Nuck: It's been one minute and I've already transferred over 100MB
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[08:38] jesusabdullah: dexter_e: If you want to use jquery with jsdom, it's just an argument. If you want to serve code to the browser, either use express's static fileserver middleware, the static-server project or whatevs, apache, whatever
[08:38] Nuck: Thanks for suggesting I move to SFTP, this is WAY better
[08:38] rmzg: Nuck: That surprises me a little, is it just millions of tiny files?
[08:38] konobi: Nuck: netcat ftw!
[08:38] jesusabdullah: Or, use something like requirejs or browserify or whatever the fuck
[08:38] Nuck: rmzg: Mixture thereof
[08:38] Nuck: Some big, some small
[08:38] jesusabdullah: Nuck: Better n' ftp? No shit
[08:39] Nuck: In this case, it's about 3-4 files that are pretty big
[08:39] dexter_e: jesusabdullah:  I was under the impression you're using the same JS modules to handle HTML stateChange on the server as you do in the browser
[08:39] Nuck: Video files
[08:39] konobi: dexter_e: what's HTML?
[08:39] rmzg: dexter_e: I don't think that's what we're talking about!
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[08:39] Nuck: I'm hitting 1.8Mbps on here at points
[08:39] Nuck: jesusabdullah: Better than SCP in this case
[08:39] Nuck: konobi: netcat? haha
[08:40] jesusabdullah: dexter_e: Are you suggesting that jsdom is allowing you to modify another browser's dom directly? If so, that's not the case.
[08:40] dexter_e: changing the state of the DOM before sending it to the browser
[08:40] jesusabdullah: jsdom only *implements* a DOM
[08:40] dmkbot: joyent/node: Nais: createContext/runInXXContext : "this" does not refer to the correct object - https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/1674
[08:40] jesusabdullah: If you want to use the results for the browser, use something like var html = element.innerHTML
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[08:40] Nuck: jsdom is *not* a templating engine
[08:40] jesusabdullah: that'll grab you the html source of everything inside that element
[08:41] Nuck: In fact, that's probably a really bad use for it
[08:41] jesusabdullah: Nuck: but weld *is*
[08:41] Nuck: It's not the fastest thing
[08:41] Nuck: jesusabdullah: That it is
[08:41] jesusabdullah: and it *requires* a DOM
[08:41] Nuck: haha true
[08:41] Nuck: But I'd rather use EJS
[08:41] Nuck: Faster than jsdom
[08:41] jesusabdullah: Agreement, though: It's a known problem that, while weld is elegant, it's limited by the speed of jsdom on the server
[08:41] Nuck: It's such a simple templating engine, EJS is.
[08:41] dexter_e: right,  I'm attempting to do what you're doing and run the same JS modules to modify the UI before its sent to the browser
[08:41] rmzg: Nuck: I'm completely tired of littering my html with ugly template calls
[08:42] jesusabdullah: I think the DOM guys have a point
[08:42] Nuck: jesusabdullah: Wonder if you could build a lighter way of representing the DOM?
[08:42] jesusabdullah: but I don't think microtemplating has lost the fight either
[08:42] Nuck: Like, just a simple JSON object
[08:42] jesusabdullah: Actually, we talked about that a little bit at summacamp
[08:42] jesusabdullah: Well, not a JSON object
[08:42] rmzg: Nuck: Surely there are optimizations available
[08:42] jesusabdullah: but there are a *lot* of DOM features weld doesn't need
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[08:42] Nuck: I think a lighter representation of the DOM as a nested object could be better
[08:43] jesusabdullah: all well needs are queryselectors, really
[08:43] AAA_awright: You can't "compile" weld?
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[08:43] Nuck: jesusabdullah: Haha, and that's pretty slow
[08:43] konobi: jesusabdullah: ctemplate ftw?
[08:43] AAA_awright: My JadeRDFa compiles to code
[08:43] jesusabdullah: AAA_awright: Not with browserify, no
[08:43] dexter_e: If you spawn an instance of window with your UI running on the server you have the option to automatically add scripts in context of the new window, but those scripts end up inserted outside the body of the outgoing html.. 
[08:43] Nuck: Maybe optimize for class-based selectors?
[08:43] jesusabdullah: I dunno
[08:43] jesusabdullah: I'm not the DOM implementation guy, tmpvar is
[08:43] jesusabdullah: haha!
[08:44] jesusabdullah: I looked at that code once, shat bricks and ran away
[08:44] jesusabdullah: Implementing a DOM is hard as fuck
[08:44] Nuck: jesusabdullah: I think a very lightweight DOM setup (a JSON object would suffice, IMO), would be enough for a QuerySelector
[08:44] dexter_e: jesusabdullah: How do you pass data into your UI modification function while still on the server?
[08:44] Nuck: Just iterate over the JSON and find it, etc.
[08:44] jesusabdullah: Why JSON? Just use an Actual Object
[08:44] rmzg: dexter_e: What on earth are you talking about?
[08:44] Nuck: jesusabdullah: Well, yeah
[08:44] Nuck: jesusabdullah: JSON is an Object to me
[08:44] shanebo: guys download mootools and quit floundering about… ;)
[08:44] jesusabdullah: dexter_e: You don't
[08:44] Nuck: Fuck mootools >:C
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[08:45] Nuck: I used that
[08:45] justinTNT has joined the channel
[08:45] Nuck: Then I ceded defeat and moved to jQuery
[08:45] Nuck: And never looked back
[08:45] shanebo: jQuery is disgusting
[08:45] dexter_e: Don't you need data from your database to insert into your html template before its sent?
[08:45] shanebo: can't believe people use it
[08:45] phree: *knockknock*  I'm trying to get started... npm freezes http://jsfiddle.net/TYyqp/
[08:45] konobi: xui ftw
[08:45] jesusabdullah: dexter_e: If you're using jsdom to modify some html before serving it, all you can do is innerHTML some HTML source in, innerHTML the modified source code BACK OUT, and then SERVE THAT ON PORT 80
[08:45] Nuck: Not nearly as nasty as prototype
[08:45] shanebo: fair enough… that's why i recommended mootools
[08:45] jesusabdullah: If you want to modify the DOM on the browser, you need to ask THAT question and ignore jsdom completely
[08:46] Nexxy: shanebo, did someone wake up on the wrong side of the client side js library this morning?
[08:46] shanebo: no
[08:46] Nuck: mootools modifies prototypes too, shanebo
[08:46] shanebo: :)
[08:46] shanebo: Nuck, true
[08:46] Nuck: So no thanks
[08:46] konobi: shanebo: try xui =0)
[08:46] jesusabdullah: Guys, guys!
[08:46] Nuck: konobi: TRY YUI
[08:46] Nuck: :D
[08:46] Nuck: Can we all agree to hate YUI?
[08:46] dexter_e: jesusadbdullah: whoa.. Thanks :)
[08:46] konobi: http://xuijs.com/
[08:46] Nuck: I mean, shit, have you *seen* the syntax on that?
[08:46] dexter_e: I thought you could do full on HTML state change in JSDOM before its shipped
[08:47] konobi: deisgned for mobile, but mice to use in refular browsers
[08:47] jesusabdullah: jquery is easy to get a grip on, has some nice selectors, and is fairly ubiquitous. On the other hand, its method chaining can lead to obnoxiously weird code
[08:47] Nuck: I mostly use jQuery for the shortened versions of various functions
[08:47] jesusabdullah: I think we can ALL agree on that.
[08:47] jesusabdullah: Also, it's a kitchen sink.
[08:47] Nuck: Main thing is .bind() versus .addEventListener
[08:47] Nuck: I personally prefer .on() though
[08:47] shanebo: Nuck, and not extending prototypes is why jQuery is so nasty… because you have to cobble a bunch of code together that wasn't designed holistically
[08:47] rmzg: jesusabdullah: I'm thinking you can just pass weld something like { "css selector", { data:stuff, here } }
[08:47] Nuck: If somebody made a lighter DOM wrapper that provided that shorthand without adding chaining, I would SO use it
[08:48] rmzg: jesusabdullah: Which means your view just has to construct a 'struct' to pass to the view
[08:48] Nuck: shanebo: I disagree
[08:48] rmzg: hrtm
[08:48] Nuck: I also like the way jQuery works on arrays of DOM nodes
[08:48] Nuck: That's a wonderful concept
[08:48] rmzg: This ties my views a little too much to the html..
[08:48] Nuck: But it's just way too heavyweight
[08:48] dexter_e: I was trying to use JSDOM to spawn an entire instance of my browser-application on the server, change its state based on url params and them ship it out to browser, after that it continues to change its own state with no further requests to server
[08:48] rmzg: WHY IS TEMPLATING HARD
[08:48] Nuck: The chaining is a horrible thing too
[08:48] rmzg: Let's go shopping
[08:48] Nuck: I've stopped doing chaining mostly
[08:49] AAA_awright: DIE DIE DIE
[08:49] shanebo: rmzg front-end or backend?
[08:49] jesusabdullah: rmzg: that's pretty much how it works, right?
[08:49] AAA_awright: function.chaining.die.die.die
[08:49] jesusabdullah: You pass it an element and an object
[08:49] Nuck: I use jQuery like I would use similar DOM functions
[08:49] konobi: "Bill paxton mostly dies in his movies, mostly"
[08:49] rmzg: jesusabdullah: Not exactly, you still have to do all of the node selection.. yeah
[08:49] rmzg: You have to get the element
[08:49] rmzg: Then call weld
[08:49] jesusabdullah: I like method chaining but NESTED method chaining can be dangerous.
[08:49] Nuck: So it's really great code that results from it
[08:49] rmzg: shanebo: Backend
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[08:49] rmzg: On an unrelated note, tamejs looks awesome
[08:49] shanebo: use mustache
[08:50] Nuck: jesusabdullah: Not really, the problem is that chaining results in a LOT of unmodular code
[08:50] shanebo: rmzg I agree!
[08:50] Nuck: I think some things are fine when chained, like setting CSS and HTML, but event stuff?
[08:50] Nuck: Eh, no
[08:50] rmzg: shanebo: I hate having my html full of {fucking} {ugly} {replacements}
[08:50] rmzg: 
ACTION mutters

[08:50] Nuck: Just use EJS :D
[08:50] rmzg: Nuck: What did I just say!
[08:51] dexter_e: jesusabdullah: Do you use JSDOM to insert data into your html templates ?
[08:51] industrial: rmzg: A template is not a template without values. then it's just a HTML page or other document
[08:51] Nexxy: rmzg, he can't hear you over the sound of his own voice
[08:51] industrial: rmzg: what will you do, just serve static pages?
[08:51] industrial: rediculous argument imho
[08:52] rmzg: industrial: No, I'll have the template logic outside of the file
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[08:52] rmzg: Also the word is 'ridiculous'
[08:52] Nexxy: I really don't think what rmzg is suggesting is all that "RIDICULOUS"
[08:52] Nexxy: JSON is faster over the wire
[08:52] Nuck: It is
[08:52] Nuck: I built a RESTful API for my site, and I'll be building a frontend over it
[08:52] Nexxy: so serve html structure + json content + logic
[08:52] Nuck: Msotly using jQuery how it *ought* to be used
[08:53] AAA_awright: rmzg: What else do you use then/
[08:53] Nexxy: and you just made a client-rendered "template"
[08:53] Nuck: I like the idea of putting the templates in other requests though, I think I'll do that >_>
[08:53] AAA_awright: That's like saying "I hate programming languages with variables"
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[08:53] Nuck: AAA_awright: Then use Brainfuck
[08:53] industrial: AAA_awright: exactly.
[08:53] AAA_awright: Case in point
[08:53] Nuck: Somebody make Brainfuck templates.
[08:53] noodlehaus: or lolcode
[08:53] noodlehaus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOLCODE
[08:53] Nexxy: ITC: EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION
[08:54] Nuck: I CAN HAZ BODY
[08:54] Nexxy: 
ACTION congratulates everyone on their ability to think critically

[08:54] rmzg: AAA_awright: We've just been discussing "what else do you use" for the last 30 minutes
[08:54] Nuck: IN UR BODY, I CAN HAZ DIV
[08:54] noodlehaus: hahaha
[08:54] rmzg: AAA_awright: There's any number of ways to modify the document from outside
[08:54] industrial: Nexxy: cheers, something I've been working on lately.
[08:54] Nuck: That would be so hilarious
[08:54] Nexxy: industrial++
[08:54] v8bot_:  Nexxy has given a beer to industrial. industrial now has 2 beers.
[08:54] catb0t: industrial now has 1 beer
[08:54] AAA_awright: rmzg: That just moves the presentation away from presentation, that doesn't make any sense
[08:54] jesusabdullah: Doing html templates with weld in mind is a dream
[08:55] noodlehaus: guys how do you debug with coffeescript?
[08:55] Nexxy: LOL
[08:55] jesusabdullah: the weld side idk as much, but the html side is great
[08:55] jesusabdullah: noodlehaus: I program in javascript.
[08:55] Nexxy: noodlehaus, with lots of stress balls and holes in the drywall?
[08:55] jesusabdullah: noodlehaus: PROBLEM SOLVED!
[08:55] justinTNT: I like the weld philosophy.
[08:55] noodlehaus: hahaha
[08:55] Nexxy: what jesusabdullah said
[08:55] industrial: noodlehaus: mostly, look at the js output file to check the line number, find the equivalent piece of CS code, change it, rinse repeat
[08:55] noodlehaus: ok, i was thinking of giving the thing a try :D
[08:55] Nexxy: don't
[08:55] Nuck: noodlehaus: It's really easy, you switch to JS.
[08:55] Nexxy: do us all a favor
[08:55] rmzg: AAA_awright: Well, maybe, that is a downside
[08:55] dexter_e: jesusabdullah: Do you use JSDOM to insert data into your html templates on the server ?
[08:55] jesusabdullah: but seriously, you just have to look at the raw javascript for debugging either way
[08:55] noodlehaus: i had the same thoughts for using it on the front-end, realized firebug and the chrome console don't do coffee
[08:55] shanebo: we all agree on something!
[08:55] jesusabdullah: dexter_e: I have done this, yes. That's the point.
[08:55] shanebo: :D
[08:56] industrial: shanebo: nodejs \:D/
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[08:56] AAA_awright: You know, I learned something today: Coffee is only good in mugs during mornings!
[08:56] shanebo: \ o /
[08:56] Nexxy: maybe we could make a precompiler for coffeescript that reads like cucumber
[08:56] jesusabdullah: I will say this: If you want to program in coffeescript, that's alright by me. It's not my gig, but if you like it that's cool
[08:56] Nexxy: then we can do away with real programming for good!
[08:56] shanebo: AAA_awright ++
[08:57] jesusabdullah: I'll just be leery of pull requests modifying functionality for CS's sake
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[08:57] Nuck: aaaaactually guys, I hate to break it to you, but, sorry, we can't all agree on Node.js.  Fuck this language, I'm switching to Perl.
[08:57] Nuck: :D
[08:57] rmzg: Welcome to the one true Language.
[08:57] Nexxy: when it gets to the point where you realize you're trying to figure out what CS you have to write to get the JS you want
[08:57] rmzg: Burn the impure.
[08:57] noodlehaus: i'm going back to pascal
[08:57] Nexxy: something should ring a bell for you
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[08:58] jesusabdullah: Yeah, if that happens that's bad
[08:58] Nexxy: when*
[08:58] Nuck: hahaha
[08:58] Nexxy: there is no if.
[08:58] Nuck: I hope nobody using CS hits that
[08:58] jesusabdullah: when? ARE YOU SURE
[08:58] Nuck: Because that's nasty
[08:58] dexter_e: jesusabdullah: I was just wondering how your scripts access your data if they're running in context of the env() object.
[08:58] jesusabdullah: SURELY it clicks with some people
[08:58] Nexxy: Nuck, I'm fairly certain that's one of the chief reasons a lot of folks have gone from
[08:58] dexter_e: the data you're going to insert into the template
[08:58] rmzg: dexter_e: It's just a closure?
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[08:58] Nuck: Nexxy: I think it's more "To do X from Ruby in CS, I do Y"
[08:58] Nexxy: OH MY GOD CS IS AMAZING to FUCK CS
[08:58] Nexxy: in less than a week
[08:58] Nuck: haha
[08:59] Nuck: I always said "FUCK CS"
[08:59] dexter_e:    closure defined where?
[08:59] Nuck: You know that :P
[08:59] jesusabdullah: dexter_e: You send it to them. It's nothing special. It's JUST a THING that PASSES A "WINDOW" OBJECT to a CALLBACK
[08:59] Nuck: I'm protective of JS, though, so that was mostly out of CS tainting my language.
[08:59] jesusabdullah: dexter_e: thing(function(result) { result.doThings(); })
[08:59] Nuck: CS was a passing whim if you ask me
[08:59] AvianFlu: the caps, the caps in here!
[08:59] Nuck: THE CAPS IS ON FIRE
[08:59] AvianFlu: so much, you people use the caps!
[08:59] SubStack: AvianFlu.toUpperCase()
[08:59] jesusabdullah: haha
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[09:00] dexter_e: jesusabdullah:  I don't quite understand but its probably noobosity on my part. 
[09:00] dexter_e: pardon for the multiple attempts
[09:00] Nuck: I am so glad I switched to SFTP.  Just transferred 700GB of small files in 9 minutes.
[09:00] Nuck: Wheras that would've taken about 30 in SCP
[09:00] AAA_awright: Nuck: You were using something else before?
[09:01] AAA_awright: Isn't that the same thing?
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[09:01] Nuck: AAA_awright: Nope
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[09:01] Nuck: SCP is predecessor to SFTP apparently
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[09:01] AAA_awright: Nuck: It's both a protocol of SSH
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[09:01] Nuck: AAA_awright: Aye, but SFTP is giving me twice the speeds
[09:01] Nexxy: STOP being so IGNORANT of what he's SAYING and just READ it AGAIN with more FEELING
[09:02] AAA_awright: Nuck: Like, sftp and scp have the same arguments
[09:02] AAA_awright: s/have/take/
[09:02] Nuck: AAA_awright: No, that's scp2
[09:02] dexter_e: Any scripts which boot up in context of the env() seem to have a scope of [DOM Object]  and have no access to data pulled from the DB
[09:02] AAA_awright: I don't have an scp2
[09:02] Nuck: Which makes SFTP act like SCP
[09:02] Nuck: I'm on a GUI client anyways
[09:03] Nuck: AAA_awright: SFTP has file listing, etc.
[09:03] Nuck: It's more a file management than file transfer
[09:03] AAA_awright: Strictly, sftp is the protocol
[09:03] AAA_awright: which scp uses
[09:03] AAA_awright: (the program)
[09:03] Nuck: Yes, if you have a modern SCP
[09:03] Nuck: I was on *actual* SCP protocol
[09:03] AAA_awright: ... Why?
[09:03] AAA_awright: SCP(1)                  Gentoo General Commands Manual                  SCP(1)
[09:03] AAA_awright: SEE ALSO
[09:03] AAA_awright:      rcp(1), sftp(1), ssh(1), ssh-add(1), ssh-agent(1), ssh-keygen(1), ssh_config(5), sshd(8)
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[09:04] Nuck: AAA_awright: Didn't know my server supported SFTP
[09:04] industrial: javaanse_jongens: lol @ your name.
[09:04] industrial: I smoke you.
[09:04] AAA_awright: Nuck: It's a part of SSH, of course it does
[09:04] AAA_awright: It connects port 22 and everything
[09:04] Nuck: AAA_awright: I didn't know that before
[09:04] Nuck: I screwed it up with SSH-FTP tunnelling
[09:05] Nuck: Which is *also* called SFTP
[09:05] AAA_awright: Oooohhhhh, that's different
[09:05] Nuck: Yeah
[09:05] shanebo: good night folks
[09:05] shanebo: im out
[09:05] Nuck: I think my confusion there makes a bit of sense
[09:05] AAA_awright: No it isn't. It's SSH-FTP
[09:05] Nuck: haha yeah
[09:05] Nuck: AAA_awright: Really?
[09:05] Nuck: hmm
[09:05] AAA_awright: If someone's calling ssh-ftp sftp, they're calling it wrong
[09:05] Nuck: I remember there was an FTP variant that was named SFTP
[09:05] Nuck: I know FTPS is TLS+FTP
[09:06] Nuck: And then there was another thing for SFTP that caused me to get confused
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[09:06] AAA_awright: Wikipedia even titles it: FTP over SSH (not SFTP)
[09:06] AAA_awright: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Transfer_Protocol#FTP_over_SSH_.28not_SFTP.29
[09:07] Nuck: hahaha
[09:07] Nuck: That's a great title
[09:07] Nuck: Then it was another protocol
[09:07] Nuck: There's so many .*FTP.*
[09:08] AAA_awright: It's near impossible to tunnel FTP natively over SSH because it uses two TCP connections, anyways
[09:08] AAA_awright: So I have no clue what you were doing, maybe it was scp, but some weird filesystem inefficency
[09:08] Nuck: Oh, it was SCP
[09:09] Nuck: I'm using WinSCP and I had selected SCP
[09:09] AAA_awright: Huh
[09:09] Nuck: Now I'm on SFTP
[09:09] Nuck: SFTP is great at transferring lots of small files at a time
[09:09] Nuck: I'm actually quite impressed
[09:10] Glenjamin: sounds like a job for rsync!
[09:10] Nuck: lol
[09:10] Nuck: Windows-to-Linux, nothx
[09:10] Nuck: I'm kinda stuck with what WinSCP supports
[09:10] Glenjamin: git
[09:10] Nuck: hahaha
[09:10] Glenjamin: oh actually, git on windows sux
[09:10] Nuck: binaries
[09:11] AAA_awright: Glenjamin: Not when I used it 2-3 years ago
[09:11] Nuck: Oh, it does
[09:11] Nuck: It's awful
[09:11] Glenjamin: horrible
[09:11] AAA_awright: I think you're using it wrong
[09:11] Nuck: I use TortoiseGit primarily because of that
[09:11] Glenjamin: there's still no proper native git on windows
[09:11] Nuck: It works, but the difference in filesystems and the bad integration into the OS
[09:11] AAA_awright: You want TortoiseGit with msysgit
[09:11] Nuck: It just kills it
[09:11] Glenjamin: msysgit is sloooooow
[09:11] Nuck: TortoiseGit with msysgit, yup
[09:11] Nuck: That's what I've got
[09:12] AAA_awright: Huh
[09:12] Glenjamin: it "works", but its still rubbish
[09:12] Nuck: Actually maybe not
[09:12] Glenjamin: compared to git on a  posix system
[09:12] AAA_awright: I sync my entire home directory thay way
[09:12] Nuck: I might be using Plink
[09:12] jesusabdullah: I run git from command line in windows
[09:12] AAA_awright: Well compared to that, everything is slower on windows
[09:12] Nuck: Because all my keys are in PuTTY
[09:12] jesusabdullah: even thought it sucks
[09:12] jesusabdullah: I fucking know how to use it, and I hate windows anyway
[09:12] AAA_awright: Nuck: That shouldn't affect file transfer
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[09:13] Nuck: I use Pageant mostly
[09:13] Nuck: Speaking of which
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[09:13] Nuck: Where is my keychain in Ubuntu?
[09:14] Glenjamin: plenty of things are just as fast on windows, just not things written specifically for posix calls with no abstraction layer that have to rely on some sort of emulation (msys/cygwin)
[09:14] Nuck: erm
[09:14] Nuck: msys isn't emulation
[09:14] Nuck: is it?
[09:14] AAA_awright: What do you mean by emulation?
[09:15] Nuck: I thought msys was Linux tools ported to Windows?
[09:15] AAA_awright: Yeah
[09:15] aaronmcadam has joined the channel
[09:15] AAA_awright: Kinda
[09:15] Nuck: I thought it was actual PORTS and not EMULATIONS
[09:15] Nuck: Unlike Cygwin
[09:15] AAA_awright: msys is related to cygwin
[09:15] AAA_awright: somehow
[09:16] Nuck: I don't think so
[09:16] Glenjamin: afaik it's a bit similar, they'd have to implement the usual posix C system calls using underlying windows APIs
[09:16] AAA_awright: One is a compiler, one is an enviornment or something which you compile with or something
[09:16] AAA_awright: I use it myself I should know the difference
[09:16] Nuck: AAA_awright: That's MinGW
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[09:16] AAA_awright: Nuck: Oh right
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[09:16] Nuck: The compiler
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[09:16] Nuck: I think MinGW and Msys are related
[09:16] AAA_awright: So then what's cygwin
[09:16] Nuck: And Cygwin is a separate thing
[09:16] AAA_awright: I have all three
[09:16] AAA_awright: And need all three
[09:16] Nuck: I have all three I think
[09:16] Nuck: I *know* have cygwin
[09:17] Nuck: I use it all the time
[09:17] AAA_awright: Well gnight #node.js
[09:17] Nuck: IDK about msys
[09:17] Nuck: Night
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[09:17] Nuck: haha last night I got 14 hours
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[09:18] Nuck: hmmm, xui could be nice for our mobile site >_>
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[09:18] Nuck: ewww
[09:18] Nuck: targeted?
[09:19] Nuck: WTF is this shit?
[09:19] Nuck: Feature detection, not browser sniffing >:C
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[09:20] Glenjamin: on mobile browser sniffing is pretty much the best approach unfortunately
[09:20] Nuck: feature detection?
[09:21] Nuck: Though
[09:21] Nuck: I guess it does make sense
[09:21] Nuck: Since you need to design different UIs for the various devices
[09:21] Nuck: I would still like a one-size-fits-all too
[09:21] Glenjamin: feature detection requires loading some part to do the detection as well, which is a luxury you dont have on mobile
[09:22] Nuck: Glenjamin: ah true
[09:22] phree: ok, npm worked after going back and installing the older version
[09:22] phree: cheeers
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[09:23] Nuck: hehe the speed dropped below 1 MiB/s for the first time since I switched to SFTP
[09:24] Nuck: I appreciate that WinSCP adopted the MiB standard
[09:24] Nuck: I would like to see OS Vendors adopt it too
[09:24] Nuck: Once everyone specifies MiB, switching to MB won't be hard
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[09:35] jesusabdullah: Nuck: I did my homework with lolcode once
[09:35] jesusabdullah: got a really shitty grade, but that troll was SO worth it
[09:35] jesusabdullah: It's because of me that he wrote "using matlab" on later labs
[09:36] jesusabdullah: He got me back with that one, cause I did a big lab with python *and* we had a disagreement over the math
[09:36] jesusabdullah: (I was right btw)
[09:36] jesusabdullah: >:P
[09:37] Nuck: jesusabdullah: I still think LOLCODE templates would be epic
[09:38] Nuck: IM IN UR BODY, MAKIN UR DIV
[09:38] jesusabdullah: heh
[09:38] jesusabdullah: might be, if you could do it reasonably reasonably, so to speak
[09:39] Nuck: haha
[09:39] Nuck: Well, it'd be lunatical
[09:39] Nuck: But it would be possible
[09:40] jesusabdullah: Yeah
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[09:40] jesusabdullah: just make sure there's an obvious, consistent dsl
[09:40] jesusabdullah: even one that just maps directly to tag names
[09:41] Nuck: haha yeah
[09:41] Nuck: jesusabdullah: I might do it some time, dunno
[09:41] jesusabdullah: like, the best part about lolcode is that you can more or less actually use it for stupid shit
[09:41] jesusabdullah: I forked a c lolcode implementation once and hacked in some math functions
[09:41] jesusabdullah: like lolg()
[09:41] SubStack: there, now stackedy works in all the IEs finally
[09:42] jesusabdullah: SubStack: Radtastic!
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[09:42] jesusabdullah: Imagine if you didn't get error messages
[09:43] jesusabdullah: No browser would be that cruel, right?
[09:44] Nuck: jesusabdullah: iPhone Safari
[09:44] Nuck: Actually no
[09:44] Nuck: That has errors, huh
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[09:46] Nuck|mobile: God I never though I'd actually be eager to use Linux
[09:46] dexter_e: Anyone know any good resources to learn making a Model with event dispatching ?
[09:46] dexter_e: I just want to make a model to abstract the DB and documents which fires events. 
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[09:50] Glenjamin: SubStack: do you have any examples of rowbit in use? I like the idea of a bot that can be interacted with over a socket as well as irc for automation tasks
[09:51] jetienne_: dexter_e: looked a microevent.js ?
[09:51] jetienne_: micro library to handle events in any javascript object
[09:51] dexter_e: jetienne: Nope checking it out now! thanks.
[09:51] Nuck: I would just use an EventEmitter
[09:51] Nuck: To me that's like making your own Date & Time module in C
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[09:52] Nuck: Oh wait, SubStack did that :P
[09:52] Nuck: lol
[09:52] SubStack: Glenjamin: it's running in #stackvm right now
[09:52] Nuck: SubStack: By the way, real smooth with forgetting about Date()
[09:52] jesusabdullah: I thought that was peteris
[09:53] SubStack: Nuck: eh?
[09:53] Glenjamin: JS Date has an awful api
[09:53] Nuck: I agree
[09:53] jesusabdullah: It could be worse
[09:53] Nexxy: I wrote a date/time module in js
[09:53] jesusabdullah: it could have jslint's api
[09:53] SubStack: Nuck: what am I forgetting?
[09:53] Nuck: SubStack: That JS had Date()
[09:53] Nuck: And then built a Date module
[09:53] SubStack: I never did that
[09:53] jesusabdullah: Nuck: that was almost definitely peteris and not substack
[09:53] Nuck: What was that
[09:53] Nuck: Ah
[09:53] Nuck: Sorry
[09:54] Dmitrijus: Nexxy: does it support timezones and strformats? ;]
[09:54] Nexxy: it could!
[09:54] Nuck: Still, SubStack *does* have some ridiculous modules
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[09:54] Nexxy: it was mostly just for easy duration parsing
[09:54] Nuck: You cannot deny that
[09:54] jesusabdullah: Don't we all?
[09:54] Nuck: I don't
[09:54] jesusabdullah: Shame on you.
[09:54] Nuck: 
ACTION has too many half-finished modules lying around

[09:54] jesusabdullah: Here'w what you should do:
[09:54] jesusabdullah: 1) Look up trollcode
[09:54] jesusabdullah: 2) Fork my brainfuck module
[09:54] jesusabdullah: 3) publish trollcode module
[09:55] Nuck: jesusabdullah: Better idea, brainfuck templates
[09:55] jesusabdullah: Alternately, regexp a string into brainfuck
[09:55] jesusabdullah: and then use my module as a dep
[09:55] jesusabdullah: actually, that regexp sounds easy
[09:56] jesusabdullah: Screw you, it will be mine!
[09:56] Nuck: It wouldn't actually be templates, just a brainfuck program that generates the page's HTML
[09:57] jesusabdullah: Go for it dude
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[09:58] Nuck: I'm asking @WeAreFact for a fact about @WeAreFact
[09:58] dexter_e: jetienne_:  Was just looking at microevent.js and found your dropInRequire = pure win
[09:58] Nuck: FACTCEPTION
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[09:59] Glenjamin: dropInRequire?
[09:59] dexter_e: yeah it lets you just require() right in the browser
[09:59] dexter_e: http://jeromeetienne.github.com/dropinrequire.js/
[10:00] Glenjamin: ah
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[10:14] dexter_e: If a Model wraps an API which has event callbacks ( Cradle )  does that model also have to have a callback style interface?
[10:15] Nuck: yup
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[10:15] dexter_e: Nuck: Thanks! :)
[10:16] dexter_e: in ruby I'm used to models just having properties which can be accessed ,  is it possible to do that in node?
[10:16] Nuck: uh, dunno
[10:16] Nuck: I guess it's theoretically possible
[10:16] Nuck: Maybe
[10:16] Nuck: Not easily
[10:16] dexter_e:     For example:    userModel.firstName  
[10:17] Nuck: Might be possible, might not be
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[10:18] dexter_e: So all models used in node apps use even callback property accessors?
[10:18] dexter_e: *event
[10:19] Nuck: I don't use explicit MVC, but I'd assume so.
[10:19] SubStack: dexter_e: false
[10:19] Nuck: Orly?
[10:19] SubStack: node has no conception of "model"
[10:19] Glenjamin: does anyone have an idea how to make property getters work with async?
[10:19] Nuck: haha
[10:19] SubStack: node is just a wrapper around v8 to do disk and network i/o
[10:19] dexter_e: Glenjamin: Thats what I'm wondering too! 
[10:19] SubStack: node is not rails
[10:20] Nuck: Agreed
[10:20] Nuck: Node is *not* rails
[10:20] Nuck: And I'm damn glad
[10:20] Glenjamin: we could build node on nails
[10:20] dexter_e: So to have abstract models with convenient property access.. is there a convention to achieve that?
[10:21] Glenjamin: .get('prop', cb) is probably as clean as you can get easily
[10:21] Nuck: Erm, many of us don't use models that explicityly
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[10:21] Nuck: The closest you'll get (that's popular) is something like Mongoose.
[10:21] Glenjamin: unless you load the objects async and assume once loaded properties exist
[10:21] Nuck: Glenjamin: That's the only other option
[10:22] Nuck: Unless you decided to do futures
[10:22] Nuck: Then you've got 500 new headaches to deal with
[10:22] Glenjamin: My current system has "factories" for loading and fetching parent/child elements
[10:22] Nuck: I just do callbacks
[10:22] Nuck: It's easiest
[10:23] SubStack: Second.
[10:23] Nuck: And I just do wrappers around Mongo
[10:23] Glenjamin: Post.fetch(id, function(err, post) {/* ... */ });
[10:23] Glenjamin: post.fetchParent(function(err, parent) { /* .. */ });
[10:23] dmkbot: joyent/node: Grepsy: Process always exits with exit code 0 - https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/1675
[10:23] Nuck: Though I may be making my folder structure a bit more rigid than right now
[10:23] Nuck: It's just kinda weird when you only have M and V
[10:23] Nuck: Err
[10:23] Nuck: M
[10:23] Nuck: Really
[10:24] Nuck: It's an API
[10:24] abraxas has joined the channel
[10:24] Nuck: I'd like to see the MVC layout for something which takes DB calls and turns them into JSON
[10:25] dexter_e: Glenjamin: .get('prop', cb)     wow really ?
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[10:26] Nuck: You get used to callbacks
[10:26] Nuck: They grow on ya
[10:26] Nuck: It can take a while for some people
[10:26] Glenjamin: depends if you want sync property access to behave the same as async (ie, fk relations)
[10:26] Nuck: I couldn't comprehend them until I had the revelation of scopes
[10:27] dexter_e: So theres no way to   model.init( state , callback ) and then    just access model.prop provided init ran first ?
[10:27] Nuck: Uh, no.
[10:27] Glenjamin: that was the other suggestion i made
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[10:27] Nuck: Wait, yes
[10:27] Nuck: The callback on init, yes
[10:27] Glenjamin: but for example post.comments in rails would fire off a DB call to load the comments
[10:27] Nuck: Everything would be in there though
[10:28] dexter_e: Glenjamin: Good point 
[10:28] Nuck: dexter_e: Any place that it interfaces with a database, that'll have a callback
[10:29] Nuck: My folder structure has begun to get unwieldy, I'll probably be figuring out something a lot more rigid soon
[10:29] Nuck: I doubt it'll be MVC
[10:29] dexter_e: At a certain point though the primary utility of a Model is to abstract away the details of data access, I just wonder if Node has established any kind of convention for this abstraction , in light of its event based nature.
[10:29] Nuck: Since that sucks ass for this use case
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[10:29] Nuck: dexter_e: Yup, we can wrap 15 callbacks into one
[10:29] Nuck: We call that abstracting
[10:30] Nuck: In Node, we try to avoid uneccessary abstractions
[10:30] Nuck: In fact, that should be our motto
[10:30] Nuck: "Avoid Uneccessary Abstractions"
[10:30] deimos_ has joined the channel
[10:30] Nuck: It's got a nice ring to it.
[10:30] dexter_e: well Abstraction is one of the 4 pillars of object oriented programming
[10:30] Nuck: eeeeeeh I wouldn't go that far
[10:31] Nuck: abstraction is important, but some things take it too far
[10:31] Nuck: coughcough ruby
[10:31] dexter_e: its not me, its every oop book ever written
[10:31] Nuck: dexter_e: Just look at the environment on NodeJS.  We're barely abstracted over the raw POSIX calls
[10:31] Nuck: The only abstractions are to deal with differences in setups
[10:32] dexter_e: I see. I suppose in some cases its key not to abstract too much
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[10:32] Nuck: Wrapping 10 callbacks into one, that's usually enough
[10:33] Nuck: You can make a simple way to get a user from the database, which might take 15 callbacks nested, and reuse that
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[10:33] Nuck: But we keep data access async for the sake of, well, asynchronousness
[10:33] industrial: for the sake of controlling serial vs paralel at will
[10:34] Nuck: haha that too
[10:34] industrial: which makes it faster most of the times then just serial
[10:35] Nuck: Most of my code is serial, but because it's async serial, it's able to take more connections in that time
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[10:36] dexter_e: Glenjamin: My current system has "factories" for loading and fetching parent/child elements    
[10:36] misterm has joined the channel
[10:36] dexter_e: Glenjamin: This sounds interesting, are these factories event based ?
[10:37] dexter_e: I mean , the initial property access is via a callback or a property that you expect to exist there?
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[10:40] dexter_e:  model.init( sessionState , modelReady );     function modelReady( model ){   model.prop;  model.prop2;  };      Anyone see a problem with this? I'm new.  
[10:41] Nuck: dexter_e: Yup
[10:41] Nuck: If you call on model.prop1 and model.prop2 before it's loaded
[10:41] Nuck: Which will likely happen since you're using a callback there
[10:41] Nuck: You'd hafta nest everything in the callback
[10:41] dexter_e: Nuck:  modelReady IS the loaded callback 
[10:42] Nuck: yup
[10:42] Nuck: But is all your code in modelReady?
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[10:42] dexter_e: Well anything that expects the model to be ready would have to be..  right?
[10:42] Nuck: model.init( sessionState , modelReady ); function modelReady( model ){ model.prop; model.prop2; }; model.prop
[10:42] dexter_e: right the last model.prop would fail
[10:42] Nuck: model.prop will be undefined
[10:42] dexter_e: I know
[10:42] Nuck: Yup
[10:43] Nuck: That's the thing, this isn't really abstracting, persay
[10:43] Nuck: You're abstracting the abstraction, and now you have two problems
[10:43] Nuck: And you can't load your entire database one time
[10:44] dexter_e: Great point. 
[10:44] dexter_e: But we have to assume your models would load only the necessary relevant data based on session state.
[10:44] Nuck: Uh
[10:44] Nuck: sessions?
[10:44] Nuck: hehehe
[10:44] Nuck: There's no such concept in Node
[10:45] dexter_e: Are you using express ?
[10:45] Nuck: We have global to the entire server and then we have requests
[10:45] dexter_e: I'm using express
[10:45] Nuck: sessions are just JSON objects
[10:45] Nuck: And they too are shoved in a database
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[10:46] dexter_e: yeah I'm using the word 'session' generally 
[10:46] Nuck: dexter_e: Anyways, you generally query the database to retrieve data that needs to be retrieved
[10:46] Nuck: Based on the current request
[10:47] Nuck: My "model" (if you can call it that) consists of functions like users.getUser()
[10:47] Nuck: Err, addUser
[10:47] dexter_e: Right, but once an application gets large enough if you must manage the details of each db connection and query directly it might become hard to manage. 
[10:48] Nuck: manage the details of each db connection?
[10:48] Nuck: Keep a pool
[10:48] Nuck: round robin
[10:48] Nuck: I merely have wrappers around queries
[10:48] Nuck: And Mongo is async by nature
[10:48] dexter_e: I mean large enough in terms of code complexity , not scale :)  I'm just a one box guy. 
[10:49] Nuck: Managing the details of a db connection?
[10:49] Nuck: Hell, I just store one connection globally
[10:49] Nuck: everything runs on that
[10:49] Nuck: And I just wrap queries into single functions
[10:50] Nuck: Which have a callback
[10:50] Nuck: instead of 5-6 nested callbacks
[10:50] JakeyChan_ has joined the channel
[10:50] dexter_e: all your queries go through one function ?
[10:50] dexter_e: to mongo ?
[10:50] Nuck: Not one function
[10:50] rmzg: TO THE MONGO
[10:50] Nuck: One connection
[10:50] rmzg: Nuck: Why not multiple connections?
[10:50] Nuck: rmzg: I'm gonna add pooling later
[10:51] rmzg: Ah
[10:51] rmzg: Nuck: Node is completely single process right, nothing ever forks or threads?
[10:51] Nuck: yup
[10:51] Nuck: Well
[10:51] radiodario: well you can do popen that opens a process
[10:51] rmzg: Simple enough
[10:51] Nuck: There is a threadpool
[10:51] rmzg: -_-
[10:52] Nuck: but that's used for when it can't do something async through a POSIX call
[10:52] Nuck: It has those there to fake async
[10:52] rmzg: yup
[10:52] rmzg: Nuck: Do you use any flow control type libraries/
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[10:52] Nuck: I use the async utilities of async.js
[10:52] Nuck: Not the flow control, generally, though
[10:52] dexter_e: So   .get('prop', callback)  is the consensus for model.property  access in node  yeah?
[10:53] Nuck: dexter_e: Something like that, yes
[10:53] rmzg: Callbacks everywhere!
[10:53] Nuck: although many noders choose not to do a rigid MVC
[10:54] Nuck: I think part of what made Node big was that it fed on the reaction to the rigidity of Ruby
[10:55] Nuck: It fit in with the great pendulum of programming
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[10:56] Nuck: 
ACTION deletes another 20GB file

[10:58] kiffness_ has joined the channel
[10:58] Nuck: Now that I've cleaned up what I *knew* was taking up space, time to run TreeSize and find out the rest :D
[10:58] Nuck: Got 12GB of files in my C drive that I can clean out >_>
[10:59] Nuck: hahahaha 7.8GB pagefile.sys
[11:01] Glenjamin: 6GB hiberfile :p
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[11:02] Nuck: 3GB for me
[11:02] Nuck: since I have 3GB RAM
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[11:03] Nuck: From @WeAreFact: "Databases only have power over you if you let them. They can be defeated by willpower aline."
[11:03] skratool: postwait: hi there, I'm trying to expose queue arguments in node-amqp, but having a little difficulties
[11:03] dexter_e: Glenjamin: Nuck:   https://github.com/samshull/node-proxy      I remember I saw a random post about models which implement node-proxy to monitor properties and fire callbacks automatically ..  Does this sound feasable? 
[11:04] dexter_e: "allows the developer to create "catch-all" property handlers for an object or a function in node.js."
[11:04] Nuck: sounds icky
[11:05] dexter_e: Thats from the documentation. 
[11:05] Nuck: Don't force Rails on Node
[11:05] Nuck: Node on Nails is bad
[11:05] Nuck: We are Node.
[11:05] Nuck: Hear us roar
[11:05] Nuck: If you want Rails, use Rails.
[11:05] dexter_e: Its not forcing Rails, its taming complexity. 
[11:05] Nuck: Node is not nearly as complex as you seem to think
[11:05] Nuck: It's merely *different*
[11:06] Nuck: It *seems* complex
[11:06] Nuck: But in reality, it's quite simple.
[11:06] Nuck: You won't benefit at all from the power of Node.js if you try to make it more Rails-like
[11:06] robi42 has joined the channel
[11:07] Nuck: hahaha
[11:07] Nuck: I've got 30GB of music
[11:07] Nuck: Holy fuck
[11:07] eee_c has joined the channel
[11:07] Nuck: 4.1 GB of that is yayQuery
[11:07] radiodario: yay!
[11:07] Nuck: yay!
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[11:08] skratool: postwait: you there?
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[11:14] hash060: ?
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[11:16] dexter_e: Glenjamin: Nuck: http://chris6f.com/synchronous-nodejs   this looks cool too. 
[11:16] rmzg: Oh my god async is destroying my midn
[11:16] dexter_e: "Asynchronous getters"
[11:17] rmzg: Nuck: Fix my problems
[11:17] incon has joined the channel
[11:17] Nuck: haha I'm not a magical JS fixer
[11:17] Nuck: But if you gist code I can try and help :)
[11:18] industrial: I just created tomwieland.no.de, does tihs mean I get free small scale nodejs hosting o_O
[11:18] incon has joined the channel
[11:18] industrial: if so, thatll be my new blog home =)
[11:18] rmzg: Nuck: I'm not sure the code would help you that much since most of the insanity comes after tamejs has worked its magic
[11:19] rmzg: For some reason my module ceases to export things properly after it's been "tamed"
[11:19] jimmyye has joined the channel
[11:20] Nuck: haha
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[11:20] Nuck: industrial: I think it's generally used for hosting epic ideas
[11:20] Nuck: So build your own Wordpress in Node
[11:20] rmzg: http://pastebin.com/gmwABGGr
[11:20] Nuck: And now you've got an excuse :D
[11:21] rmzg: Readable code, eh?
[11:21] SubStack: rmzg: exports have to be defined on the same tick to work as you might expect
[11:21] rmzg: I suspected that's where my problem was
[11:21] rmzg: But I'm unsure how to get there
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[11:21] Nuck: hehe
[11:22] Nuck: Somehow I found a way around that in my previous pre-global setup
[11:22] Nuck: No idea how I managed that though
[11:22] SubStack: rmzg: don't use tamejs for exports?
[11:22] Nuck: and that does NOT look tame to me
[11:22] Nexxy: oh god
[11:22] Nexxy: tamejs is a dirty word
[11:22] Nuck: In fact, quite the opposite
[11:22] rmzg: Ah-ha
[11:22] Nuck: It's hideous
[11:22] Nuck: Why the fuck would somebody do that to JS?
[11:22] SubStack: Nuck: it's generated code, I should expect as much
[11:23] rmzg: Generated code is rarely beautiful
[11:23] Nuck: But the __
[11:23] Nuck: eww
[11:23] rmzg: Problems solved
[11:23] Nuck: At least CS has better code
[11:23] Nuck: The stuff it generates is actually pretty legible
[11:23] rmzg: Hi substack
[11:24] rmzg: Nuck: Honestly this isn't that bad, it's just verbose
[11:24] rmzg: But what it's trying to do is pretty complicated
[11:24] Nuck: No, this is that bad.
[11:24] Nuck: This is absolutely god-awful
[11:24] rmzg: You sound young =[
[11:24] rmzg: But anyway, if you have improvements, I'm sure they'd love to hear them
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[11:24] Nuck: Yes, don't use tamejs
[11:24] Nuck: That's my improvement
[11:24] rmzg: Ok, what should I use?
[11:24] Nuck: Node
[11:25] Nuck: Good ol' Vanilla Node.js
[11:25] SubStack: rmzg: there are lots of ways to structure asynchronous flow control
[11:25] Nuck: It's really not that bad
[11:25] Nuck: When you get used to it
[11:25] rmzg: Nuck: Yeah, it is
[11:25] Nexxy: rmzg, if you're really just looking for a fancy flow control lib use async
[11:25] SubStack: EventEmitters, named function, flow control libs like step
[11:25] Nuck: yup
[11:25] SubStack: async too
[11:25] Nuck: There's far better ways
[11:26] Glenjamin: with async from npm
[11:26] rmzg: This is a flow control lib like step, and appears to be better
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[11:26] rmzg: But how is async an improvement?
[11:26] Glenjamin: it abstracts common patterns
[11:26] Nexxy: async.parallel(), async.series()
[11:26] SubStack: rmzg: tame isn't a flow control lib, it's a source transformer
[11:26] k1ttty has joined the channel
[11:26] Nuck: And not a very good one, if you ask me
[11:26] Nuck: I use async
[11:27] rmzg: Again, you've yet to present an objective argument
[11:27] Nuck: But I use it sparingly
[11:27] rmzg: Anyway, vanilla node: https://github.com/christkv/node-mongodb-native/blob/master/examples/blog.js
[11:27] Nuck: rmzg: Code generation is a bad idea
[11:27] Nuck: callbacks are not evil
[11:27] fairwinds has joined the channel
[11:27] Nexxy: maybe I didn't read back far enough
[11:27] markjames has joined the channel
[11:27] Nuck: Why do people hate callbacks so much?
[11:27] z6Dabrata has joined the channel
[11:27] Nexxy: I thought this was a discussion about asynchronous flow control
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[11:28] Nuck: rmzg: To be fair, their code sucks.
[11:28] Nuck: Even by my standards
[11:29] ditesh|cassini has joined the channel
[11:29] Nuck: Not to mention, they directly deal with mongodb-native and don't wrap it into a single chunk
[11:30] rmzg: You're silly
[11:30] Nuck: So it's bad anyways
[11:30] rmzg: 
ACTION patsnu

[11:30] Raynos: Whats wrong with callbacks
[11:30] Nuck: Raynos: Absolutely nothing
[11:30] JakeyChan has joined the channel
[11:30] rmzg: Raynos: Nested callbacks lead to hell
[11:30] Raynos: rmzg: your blog makes me puke
[11:30] rmzg: Raynos: Read this: http://tamejs.org/
[11:30] Nexxy: nested anything is frustrating
[11:30] rmzg: Raynos: I don't have a blog, so I doubt it
[11:30] Raynos: Thats why I dont use mongo
[11:30] Nexxy: nested tertiary?
[11:30] Raynos: rmzg: tame makes me puke
[11:31] rmzg: Have you actually read the rationale?
[11:31] Nexxy: Raynos, you should see a doctor
[11:31] Raynos: Anyone who uses tame or storm deserves hell
[11:31] SubStack: rmzg: who says you need to nest them?
[11:31] rmzg: The design.
[11:31] Nexxy: deep nesting = you're doing it wrong
[11:31] Nuck: nested makes me happier than tame
[11:31] Nuck: And I only nest maybe 4 deep at any given time
[11:32] Nuck: Before taking a reusable chunk
[11:32] Nuck: And splitting it into a separate function
[11:32] Nuck: With one callback
[11:32] Raynos: Dont nest too far
[11:32] rmzg: s
[11:32] rmzg: Sounds like fun.
[11:32] Raynos: two or three is ok
[11:32] Nuck: Callbacks are only bad *if you don't know whate you're doing*
[11:32] rmzg: No one said callbacks are bad.
[11:32] Nuck: If you learn to use callbacks, they're quite nice
[11:32] Raynos: I'll rewrite that code into something readable
[11:33] rmzg: And the argument that "learning to use something solves its problems" is the most idiotic lie in computer science and single handedly holding back progress.
[11:33] Nexxy: callbacks stole my date to the prom
[11:33] H4ns: rmzg: adding ad-hoc extensions to a nonextensible language is not "progress".
[11:33] Nuck: rmzg: The problem is that you do not understand the language
[11:33] rmzg: It's an attempt at progress
[11:33] Nuck: You can't expect to instantly be amazing at callbacks
[11:34] Nuck: They're gonna cause headaches for weeks
[11:34] Nuck: Trust me
[11:34] rmzg: uh
[11:34] rmzg: nuck
[11:34] Nuck: It happens
[11:34] rmzg: Callbacks aren't.. new..
[11:34] rmzg: They've been around, for, you know, a while now
[11:34] Nexxy: this should be good
[11:34] Nuck: No they aren't
[11:34] Nuck: I know
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[11:34] rmzg: Like maybe more than a year
[11:34] Nexxy: (he knows everything btw)
[11:34] rmzg: OR MOST OF THE FUCKING CENTURY
[11:34] Nuck: But you still don't seem to accept them
[11:34] Nexxy: callbacks have been around at least since last Thurday
[11:34] rmzg: You sound like a heretic
[11:34] rmzg: Heretics shall be purged
[11:34] rmzg: WITH CLEANSING FIRE
[11:35] Nexxy: Nuck, you thought I was bad ;o
[11:35] Nexxy: rmzg, I like you
[11:35] Nuck: rmzg: Get used to callbacks, they're a way of life
[11:35] Nexxy: Nuck, did you even read what he just wrote?
[11:35] rmzg: I'm likable, ask anyone, especially my mother.
[11:35] Nuck: Nexxy: Age is irrelevant.
[11:35] Nexxy: I have 0 context of the previous 40 lines but
[11:35] Nexxy: I'm pretty sure 
[11:35] Nuck: They're a way of life in Node.js
[11:35] Nexxy: he just CLEARLY stated
[11:35] Nexxy: that he is at least fairly familiar with callbacks
[11:35] Nuck: Obviously he doesn't realize they're not that bad
[11:36] Nexxy: so continuing with the "Get used to callbacks" rant
[11:36] Nuck: They require a different way of thinking, sure
[11:36] Nexxy: is kind of pointless
[11:36] Nexxy: and frankly a teensy bit tedious
[11:36] Nexxy: Nuck, I'm so glad you're here to explain things to the rest of us
[11:36] rmzg: Nexxy: I figure he'll get over it as he ages =]
[11:36] Nuck: Nexxy: Stop being such a sarcstic little cunt, it's really getting on my nerves.  And I don't normally call people cunts.
[11:37] rmzg: He's exactly like I was when I was 18
[11:37] Nuck: You're back on my ignore
[11:37] rmzg: It's pretty cute
[11:37] Nexxy: that's twice now that you have directly insulted me
[11:37] jbpros has joined the channel
[11:37] Nexxy: you are patronising other members of the channel
[11:37] Nuck: rmzg: I'm not so bad, Nexxy brings out the worst in me :)
[11:37] Nexxy: I wasn't even here
[11:37] Nexxy: for you ranting @ him
[11:37] Nuck: I hate little bitches, so it's to be expected.
[11:37] Nexxy: like he didn't understand what you were saying
[11:37] Nexxy: lol
[11:37] Nuck: rmzg: Anyways, you act like callbacks are a problem
[11:37] Nexxy: oy vey
[11:37] H4ns: Nuck: please go to bed.
[11:38] Nuck: But they really aren't
[11:38] SubStack: Nuck: let's all be friends here
[11:38] Nuck: SubStack: I wil when Nexxy stops attempting to degrade my character
[11:38] Nexxy: please explain what you mean by that
[11:38] Nexxy: I'd be happy to clarify my intention
[11:38] rmzg: SubStack: Hi
[11:38] misterm: I dunno, I aint no callaback gurl
[11:38] Nuck: People like her actually tick me off, and I'm not an angry person.  I'm not my brother, I don't get angry easily.
[11:38] rmzg: SubStack: I see you
[11:38] Nuck: misterm++
[11:38] v8bot_:  Nuck has given a beer to misterm. misterm now has 1 beers.
[11:38] catb0t: misterm now has 1 beer
[11:39] SubStack: 
ACTION finds a better hiding place

[11:39] chjj has joined the channel
[11:39] rmzg: The call is coming from inside the house!
[11:39] Raynos: rmzg: https://gist.github.com/1205995
[11:39] SubStack: hono
[11:39] SubStack: it's the call that calls you BACK
[11:39] Nuck: I read that like "The snack that smiles back"
[11:40] Nexxy: Nuck, if putting me on ignore prevents you from verbally assaulting me again, please do so
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[11:40] rmzg: Raynos: Hrm
[11:40] Nexxy: I am not willing to be addressed with such vulgar terms
[11:40] Raynos: Its all about organising the code
[11:40] Raynos: whoever wrote that couchdb example is an idiot
[11:40] spcshpopr8r has joined the channel
[11:41] rmzg: Er, which example?
[11:41] Nuck: erm
[11:41] Nuck: That was Mongo
[11:41] Raynos: I mean mongodb
[11:41] Nuck: hahaha
[11:41] rmzg: That's the example from the guy who wrote the mongo driver for node
[11:41] rmzg: 
ACTION shrugs

[11:41] Nuck: that too
[11:41] Raynos: The point was there are ways to manage flow
[11:41] rmzg: using middleware() ?
[11:41] brianseeders has joined the channel
[11:41] Nuck: And he used sys.puts instead of console.log
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[11:42] Raynos: Well I would personally use middleware and after
[11:42] Raynos: Thats because I wrote those, but use whatever you want
[11:42] Nuck: I use async.js
[11:42] Raynos: async & futures are quite good
[11:42] tuhoojabotti: I use that too.
[11:42] tuhoojabotti: But on the client side
[11:42] tuhoojabotti: Should use it on the server too
[11:43] Raynos: rmzg: middleware : https://github.com/Raynos/middleware but it's a work in progress
[11:43] rmzg: Raynos: So the question becomes, what's the advantage of using middleware over tamejs? I rather like the tame syntax and it has some benefits beyond the example you've rewritten
[11:43] Raynos: tame is an abstraction that abstracts away the fact all your communication and actions are asynchronous
[11:43] Raynos: First of all it compiles down to javascript
[11:43] Raynos: So you have the standard problems with debugging compiled javascript
[11:44] Raynos: secondly it makes you feel that actions are synchronous when they are not.
[11:44] Raynos: this will lead to bad code
[11:44] Raynos: It basically makes you think its doing something else then it is and it makes it easier to make architecture design mistakes
[11:44] rmzg: Well, it's a reasonable argument
[11:44] Raynos: I highly recommend against it
[11:44] rmzg: Raynos: Are you by any chance familiar with POE or uh Twisted or similar?
[11:44] Nuck: Honestly, tamejs isn't a bad *idea*
[11:44] Nuck: I don't blame them for that
[11:45] Nuck: But the execution gets a 3/10
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[11:45] Raynos: It also introduces new syntax into javascript
[11:45] Raynos: I hate new syntax because its not portable
[11:45] Raynos: its a pain in the ass for anyone to read who doesnt know tamejs
[11:45] Raynos: and its a pain to maintain
[11:45] Raynos: For the love of god never use it in a library because it infuriates anyone whos willing to make open source contributions to your library
[11:46] rmzg: heh
[11:46] Nuck: (1) the compiler is complete and utter shit (2) you can have glitches in *their compiler* that break *your code* (3) everything Raynos has sead
[11:46] Raynos: But in applications you have your own choice of flow control
[11:46] Nuck: Raynos: Haha, same thing with CoffeeScript
[11:46] rmzg: I'd agree with you as to the general points of source code compilation, but the advantages it offers seem to outweigh most of the negatives
[11:46] Raynos: Nuck: is storm better?
[11:46] Nuck: Storm?
[11:46] Raynos: https://github.com/guileen/stormjs
[11:46] Raynos: Same idea, slightly different syntax / implementation
[11:47] Nuck: I'd hafta see before and after code
[11:47] Raynos: its on their github page
[11:47] Raynos: I still highly recommend against it.
[11:47] Raynos: It's black magic and a leaky abstraction
[11:47] Nuck: I think the best way to do flow control is to use futures
[11:47] Raynos: and I hate leaky abstractions
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[11:47] Nuck: If you want async that looks like sync, nothing is better
[11:47] Raynos: I say the same about mongoose, cradle, nowjs, any framework ontop of express
[11:47] Raynos: they are all leaky abstractions
[11:47] Nuck: haha yup
[11:48] Nuck: I use Express
[11:48] Nuck: And Mongo
[11:48] Raynos: Nuck: or write in an async language
[11:48] Nuck: Though I use Mongoskin for the basic futures 
[11:48] Raynos: erlang does continuation passing where its easier to write async
[11:48] Nuck: Where sync would actually be best, it uses futures
[11:48] Raynos: some languages have every expression being an asynchronous action
[11:48] Nuck: oh god
[11:48] Nuck: Node is the new erlang
[11:48] Nuck: Fuck
[11:48] Nuck: 
ACTION fleeds

[11:49] Nuck: flees evem
[11:49] Nuck: even
[11:49] Nuck: gah trying to juggle my iPhone and computer
[11:49] Raynos: whats wrong with erlang
[11:49] skm has joined the channel
[11:49] Nuck: The movie
[11:49] Nuck: That's what's wrong
[11:49] hackband_ has joined the channel
[11:49] Nuck: I'm escaping Node before we have Node.js: The Movie
[11:49] Nuck: Starring SubStack, isaacs, and Ryah.
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[11:51] Nuck: ugh Colloquy Mobile lacks ignores :(
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[11:52] Raynos: And TJ
[11:52] Nuck: yush
[11:52] Nuck: Raynos: Who would be the creepy moustached man
[11:53] Raynos: You?
[11:53] Nuck: nah
[11:53] Nuck: I think it should be tj
[11:53] Nuck: Just so we can see tj with a moustache
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[11:53] Raynos: Nuck: why is there no Nuck on github
[11:53] Nuck: NuckChorris
[11:53] Raynos: What is with people not aligning their github and irc names
[11:53] Nuck: Is Nuck untaken?
[11:53] Nuck: >_>
[11:53] Nuck: I should change that
[11:54] Raynos: Nuck: nuckchorris is a stupid name
[11:54] Nuck: haha
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[11:54] Nuck: It's when I can't get "nuck"
[11:54] Nuck: Though it used to be the opposite
[11:55] Raynos: You do not have a sensible character limit on your code
[11:55] Raynos: it makes me sad
[11:55] Nuck: character limit?
[11:55] Raynos: Yes
[11:55] Nuck: I use word wrap
[11:55] Raynos: like 100 or 120char
[11:55] Nuck: lol
[11:55] Raynos: Or 80 if your hardcore
[11:55] Nuck: OMGOMGOMGOM
[11:56] Nuck: I"M GETTING A FACT FROM @WeAreFact
[11:56] Raynos: ._.
[11:56] Nuck: About @WeAreFact
[11:56] Raynos: Who are they
[11:56] Raynos: why would I care
[11:56] Nuck: Twitter account
[11:57] Nuck: They come up with ridiculous, uh, "facts"
[11:57] Raynos: I saw it. I dont care
[11:57] Raynos: You have internet problems
[11:57] Nuck: I wanted to see if they'd do it
[11:57] Nuck: And factception me
[11:57] Nuck: Anyways, I don't bother with silly formatting things that are holdouts from old editors that didn't do word wrapping
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[11:58] Raynos: I dont like word wrapping
[11:58] Nuck: meh
[11:58] Nuck: It's standard for GUI editors
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[11:58] Nuck: Which is all I care about
[11:58] Nuck: Anyways, it's 5 AM
[11:58] Raynos: I prefer to keep it limited to 100 and have 2/3 tabs in my text editor
[11:58] Nuck: And shit's pretty much transferred now
[11:59] Nuck: I'm gonna go to sleep
[11:59] Nuck: And finish cleaning out tomorrow
[11:59] Nuck: Got 30GB of music, 25GB of downloads, 2GB of PHotoshop temp files
[11:59] Nuck: Damn there's some nasty bloat in here
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[12:05] Glenjamin: Nuck: it's the same reason newspapers write text in columns
[12:05] Glenjamin: long lines are harder to read
[12:06] Glenjamin: applies to programming also - if you can't fit it into 80 chars it should probably be refactored
[12:06] Nuck|mobile: I'm a strong believer in adaptive codebases. I use tabs because every dev can set a width for that
[12:06] Glenjamin: and word wrapping screws up indents
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[12:06] Nuck|mobile: And I don't wrap lines because I expect the dev to have an editor that does word wrapping
[12:06] Nuck|mobile: In a way that doesn't suck
[12:07] Glenjamin: tabs i can live with, but lots of chars/tokens on a line or > 4/5 indents is a bad code smell imo
[12:07] Glenjamin: In a team of ~20 or so, I'm the only one who sticks strongly to 80 chars :(
[12:07] Nuck: Haha well, I expect each dev to set their styles on their editor, not in the codebases
[12:08] Nuck: I think it's a fairly logical thing
[12:08] Nexxy: 80 chars is more of a common courtesy than a style
[12:08] Glenjamin: when a line starts at columns 35, and contains a 40 character class name
[12:08] Glenjamin: you know its a bad line :(
[12:08] Raynos: Glenjamin: 80 is too little with 4 or 8 character tabs.
[12:08] Glenjamin: but thats a language issue more than a style issue
[12:08] Nuck: Haha well if you use 2-width indents it's not so bad
[12:09] Glenjamin: Raynos: not if you don't overnest!
[12:09] Nuck: Raynos: Exactly lol
[12:09] SubStack: I do 4 space indents at 80 chars
[12:09] Nuck: Nesting happens, it's to be expected
[12:09] Raynos: I do recommend 100 or 120
[12:09] Raynos: I have big trouble fitting unit tests in 80 characters
[12:09] Raynos: because assert messages are verbose and descriptive
[12:09] Glenjamin: it's a bit harder in node with all the callbacks, but perfectly reasonable
[12:09] Nuck: I'm probably gonna move to 3-width indents soon
[12:09] Glenjamin: the entire python stdlib is 80 char max with 4 space indents
[12:09] Nuck: I'd rather nest than deal with named functions
[12:10] Nuck: That just makes my code look messy
[12:10] Raynos: Tbh nesting isnt that bad.
[12:10] Nuck: And clouds the flow
[12:10] Glenjamin: Raynos: break strings over multiple lines, use intermediary variables to assemble etc
[12:10] Nuck: I agree, people make such big deal over nesting
[12:10] Raynos: Glenjamin: still 80 characters is silly these days.
[12:10] Nuck: Glenjamin: I build for speed.
[12:10] Glenjamin: sometimes its fine, often its ugly ime
[12:10] Nuck: Okay that was axle 
[12:11] Raynos: 80char was because o terminals at fixed width
[12:11] Nuck: A lie, even
[12:11] Raynos: we can lax it to 100 or 120
[12:11] Glenjamin: except then you can't fit 2 files side by side on a widescreen
[12:11] Raynos: I can
[12:11] Raynos: @ 100
[12:11] Nuck: Raynos: Yeah it's a holdout from old consoles
[12:11] Raynos: I can fit two @ 120, and 3 at 80
[12:11] Nuck: I don't do side by side on one screen
[12:11] Glenjamin: and like i said, the limit isn't about screen space - it's about cognitive load per line
[12:11] SubStack: 80 characters is a nice reminder not to drift too far to the right
[12:11] Nuck: I dual screen
[12:11] Raynos: Get a decent 1920px screen
[12:11] dexter_e: Glenjamin: did you check out the node-proxy link ?
[12:11] Glenjamin: save your eyes, increase the font size
[12:11] Raynos: Glenjamin: depends on how far you indent
[12:12] Glenjamin: dexter_e: yeah, but i don't really want to use fibers
[12:12] Glenjamin: i'm thinking about switching to 2-space in node
[12:12] SubStack: deep code is hard to follow and hard to test
[12:12] Glenjamin: ^^ this
[12:12] Nuck: I can switch just by changing a single setting to whatever tabwidth I want
[12:12] Nuck: I disagree, nesting is often not a big deal
[12:13] Nuck: At least, for simple serial cases
[12:13] Glenjamin: there doesn't need to be a hard rule for it
[12:13] Nuck: More than serial, I agree
[12:13] Glenjamin: but when you see ~5 levels of indent, it's worth looking to see if it could be refactored
[12:13] Raynos: https://github.com/Raynos/vows-is/blob/master/src/vows-is.js#L72
[12:13] Nuck: Haha I have refactored
[12:13] Raynos: 1 indent for a method definition in an object, two indents for two async calls, and one ident for an if statement
[12:13] Nuck: Glenjamin: My Jitters code is complete shr
[12:14] Raynos: Is that too much?
[12:14] Nuck: Shit
[12:14] Glenjamin: Raynos: in that case, no
[12:14] Glenjamin: but that's about the limit imo
[12:14] Raynos: I agree
[12:14] Raynos: it is about the limit
[12:14] Raynos: 5 indents needs looking into
[12:15] Glenjamin: i'd possibly define _getServer in the function body and then pass it into getServer
[12:15] Glenjamin: saves one level
[12:15] Raynos: https://github.com/christkv/node-mongodb-native/blob/master/examples/blog.js
[12:15] Raynos: Otherwise you get that ^
[12:15] Nuck: Haha yeah
[12:15] Raynos: Glenjamin: probably worthwhile
[12:15] Raynos: tbh that codebase is ugly and needs a bloody good tidy up
[12:15] Nuck: I generally abstract for cases like that
[12:16] Nuck: Mongo-native  is awful, 
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[12:16] Nuck: Its just so dirty
[12:16] Glenjamin: anyone good at grep, there should be a one-liner to show any lines from a codebase that start with loads of indent
[12:16] torsd has joined the channel
[12:16] Raynos: And make it work over http to github o/
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[12:16] Glenjamin: lines 93-107 are great :D
[12:16] kulor-uk has joined the channel
[12:16] Raynos: Preferably with a github user account
[12:17] Nuck: I could do a pcre regex but I'm too lazy and grep isn't pcre it's posix 
[12:17] Glenjamin: perl -en might do it... one sec
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[12:18] rmzg: perl -lne'if( /^\t{3,}/ ) { print "$ARGV:$.:$_"} '
[12:18] bnoordhuis: Glenjamin: cat foo.txt | perl -ne 'print if /^\s{4,}/'
[12:18] Nuck: aww damn almost had it
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[12:18] rmzg: 
ACTION awards bnoordhuis one useless use of cat

[12:18] Nuck: But I'm on iPhone
[12:19] bnoordhuis: rmzg: as not to obscure the perl one-liner itself :)
[12:19] Nuck: And I accidentally sent it as a command
[12:19] rmzg: bnoordhuis: cat foo | perl -ne; is identical to perl -ne foo;
[12:19] rmzg: Except you lose more information!
[12:19] bnoordhuis: you're telling me?
[12:19] rmzg: Yes!
[12:19] rmzg: Actually I'm telling the channel
[12:20] rmzg: If you do the cat | perl; then you can't print the filename from perl! =]
[12:20] Nuck: Eek my bed is a mess. I did not have a fun 14 hours yesterday >_>
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[12:22] Glenjamin: so, for a codebase:
[12:22] Glenjamin: find <path> | grep .js | xargs perl -lne'if( /^\s{20,}/ ) { print "$ARGV:$.:$_"} '
[12:23] Glenjamin: hrm, lots :(
[12:23] rmzg: It still has the problem of actually telling what counts as indentation
[12:23] rmzg: And it will flag lines that are completely blank
[12:23] Nuck: Haha piping is by far the best feature in a shell ever
[12:24] Glenjamin: i find it much easier to remember how to use grep and xargs then to remember how to use find's filters
[12:24] rmzg: perl -lne '...' $( find . -iname '*.js' )
[12:24] Glenjamin: and since they're 20 year old programs, performance is not really an issue
[12:24] rmzg: 
ACTION shrugs

[12:24] rmzg: I got tired of never knowing how to actually use find one day!
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[12:25] rmzg: And of course obviously you could do it all in perl in the first place..
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[12:25] Nuck: How about /^\t{3,}[^\t]+/?
[12:26] rmzg: ignores regular spaces
[12:26] Glenjamin: i use spaces for indent
[12:26] postwait: skratool: I am here now
[12:26] postwait: briefly
[12:27] Glenjamin: does [^$] work?
[12:27] rmzg: To do what?
[12:27] Glenjamin: or maybe (?!$)
[12:27] Nuck: /^\s{3,}[^\t]+$/
[12:27] Nuck: Actually 
[12:27] Nuck: /^\s{6,}[^\t]+$/
[12:27] Nuck: With 2space 3 limit
[12:28] Glenjamin: \[ ]{20,}\S should ignore blank lines
[12:28] Raynos: you guys remind me I need to learn unix
[12:28] Glenjamin: which is 5 indents at 4 spaces
[12:28] rmzg: Glenjamin: What's with the \[ ]?
[12:28] Nuck: But still, now you have two problems
[12:28] Glenjamin: Raynos: find . | grep <pattern> | xargs <command> does most cases
[12:28] Raynos: o/
[12:29] Glenjamin: rmzg: spaces only
[12:29] Nuck: Heh well gnight I need some sleep
[12:29] Raynos: Yeah but I need to learn <command> or <pattern>
[12:29] Nuck: \s
[12:29] Raynos: I also need to just know more about unix
[12:29] Nuck: Man
[12:29] Raynos: I also need to be in a state where I can open a shell and not fail
[12:29] Nuck: Raynos: I don't do Linux at all, man
[12:29] Nuck: I just know regex
[12:29] rmzg: Glenjamin: You'd want [ ]; but just /^ {20,}\S/... would work
[12:29] Nuck: Haha
[12:30] Raynos: And learn lynx
[12:30] Glenjamin: mm, good point
[12:30] Glenjamin: cardinality after a space just looks weird :D
[12:30] rmzg: The simplest solution is probably converting \t to $X spaces before you check anyway
[12:30] Nuck: Lol I actually used lynx to download something to my vps while on ssh
[12:30] Raynos: Can we convince google to make a command line chrome?
[12:30] Nuck: Not so bad actually
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[12:31] Glenjamin: meh, just use your normal brower up til the download link, then use wget
[12:31] Nuck: Raynos: Idea. Phantomjs
[12:31] Nuck: Doit
[12:31] Glenjamin: or if you need to try out what's accessible from the box, ssh -D / -L / -R
[12:32] Nuck: Make a Lynx-esque interface to PhantomJS
[12:32] rmzg: Lynx really isn't a bad way to navigate the internet as long as you aren't trying to do things like use gmail or similar
[12:32] Raynos: A command line browser build on phantom
[12:32] Nuck: and make it in node
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[12:32] Raynos: why not zombiejs?
[12:32] ceej has joined the channel
[12:32] Nuck: Lol idk
[12:32] misterm: pff elinks all the way
[12:32] Nuck: I just know Phantom
[12:32] Raynos: learn moar about node modules
[12:33] dexter_e: Are there performance issues or any drawbacks to defining our methods on the prototype and using instances of the class? 
[12:33] rmzg: Anyway, if you want hipster-nerd cred for your browsing habits, use conkeror
[12:33] dexter_e: Using traditional prototype functions and a single exports.constructor  
[12:34] Nuck: dexter_e: Prototypes are faster than functions creating objects
[12:34] Raynos: dexter_e: ehm no?
[12:34] Nuck: By a large mergin on v8
[12:34] Raynos: Well gigantic prototype chains are stupid
[12:34] Raynos: if you have a chain of prototypes > 4 it gets silly
[12:34] Raynos: or reeks of bad design
[12:35] dexter_e: Not gigantic,  just basic extending EventEmitter n such
[12:35] Raynos: The general rule is functions should only exist once, and shouldnt be created at run time
[12:35] Raynos: I also recommend Object.create, prototypical OO & pd
[12:35] dexter_e: pd ?
[12:35] Raynos: But that might be a style preference
[12:35] Raynos: pd : https://github.com/Raynos/pd because propertydescriptors are verbose as hell
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[12:36] dexter_e: whoa thats pimp
[12:36] misterm: A
[12:37] Nuck: Well gnight
[12:37] dexter_e: gnight
[12:37] dexter_e: node well,  I mean sleep
[12:38] dexter_e: sleep well
[12:38] Raynos: The examples show what the coding & OO style is like
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[12:39] dexter_e: Sweet.  I'm reading :   http://raynos.org/blog/4/Doing-Object-Oriented-JavaScript   now 
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[12:39] dexter_e: Raynos: with this in mind.. how do you handle async getter-setters  for  models which wrap a database or something ? :)
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[12:40] Raynos: getter/setters that do async logic is retarded
[12:40] Raynos: I avoid getter/setters like the plague
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[12:40] Raynos: Apart from in my unit testing library
[12:40] dexter_e: right on.  lets call them accessors then.. 
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[12:40] Raynos: Its very vague
[12:41] Raynos: Can you ask the question without being vague?
[12:41] dexter_e: let me reword
[12:41] dexter_e: pardon
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[12:41] dexter_e: What do you recommend for simple property accessors of models which encapsulate async database requests..
[12:42] dexter_e:   userModel.firstName for example 
[12:42] Raynos: Give me a gist example
[12:42] Raynos: They cant be done
[12:42] Raynos: when you get a userModel cache all the properties
[12:42] dexter_e: Ok    so      userModel.get( property , callback )   right ?
[12:42] Raynos: Or use promises for everything
[12:42] Raynos: Well i never do that
[12:42] Raynos: I use Users.get(userId, callback)
[12:42] Raynos: Getting single properties out of a db is silly.
[12:43] dexter_e: right right, that was just and example :)
[12:43] Raynos: https://github.com/Raynos/so642/tree/master/src/model
[12:43] Raynos: Recent example of database models ^
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[12:44] Raynos: Every call on the db model has a callback. And this is just a thin db abstraction that the domain models should use. We didnt end up writing domain models because it the 48 hour timelimit for nodeknockout was tight
[12:45] Raynos: So we just hard coded the database wrappers into our express routing files \o/ because tight coupling saves a few hours in the short term
[12:45] Glenjamin: Raynos: my idea was that you always use instance.get('prop', cb), then you don't need to know whether lookup is sync or async
[12:45] Raynos: s/coded/coupled/
[12:45] Raynos: But why do async properties 
[12:46] CIA-30: node: 03Igor Zinkovsky 07master * r85357ab 10/ test/simple/test-fs-chmod.js : fix test-fs-chmod test - http://git.io/wI0wsg
[12:46] Glenjamin: post.author.name, post.comments
[12:46] Raynos: Why not assert that you always load objects asynchronously and all properties are loaded
[12:46] Glenjamin: fk relations
[12:46] Glenjamin: complex calculated fields
[12:46] Raynos: I guess so
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[12:46] Glenjamin: lazy loading of expensive properties
[12:46] Glenjamin: there are cases
[12:46] Raynos: But I avoid this by not doing fk
[12:46] Raynos: I just load in id's for anything expensive
[12:46] dexter_e: Raynos:  I see you also create the database connection in the constructor , that was gonna be my next question. 
[12:46] Raynos: and force you to load it asynchronously by id
[12:47] Raynos: So you have post.authorId
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[12:47] Raynos: and Users.get(authorId, cb)
[12:47] Raynos: I honestly havn't done enough work to see whether abstraction it with an async getter for all properties is worthwhile
[12:48] Raynos: Currently I would say its over engineering but it honestly depends on scale of projects
[12:48] Glenjamin: the case i actually use "models" does pretty much what you described
[12:48] dexter_e: Raynos: Thank you for this example.  
[12:48] coffeecup: any ideas which tool i could use to test my express app?
[12:48] Glenjamin: but for a fully generic model layer, async on all props might be reasonable
[12:48] dexter_e: Do you recommend creating the database connection in the constructor in most cases? 
[12:48] Raynos: dexter_e: https://github.com/Raynos/raynos-blog/blob/master/src/middleware/data/post.js
[12:48] Raynos: I have another example thats significantly more ugly
[12:49] Glenjamin: also user.getMany(['prop1', 'prop2'], cb(err, props))
[12:49] Raynos: coffeecup: https://github.com/Raynos/vows-is
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[12:49] Glenjamin: for purity you should always pass in some sort of abstracted "data" interface in the constructor
[12:49] Glenjamin: makes it nice and easy to stub it out in testing
[12:49] Raynos: dexter_e: constructor is one option
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[12:50] Raynos: Personally I make a model an EventEmitter. Have the model emit "loaded" once its async startup is ready
[12:50] Glenjamin: but given time/effort constraints there's plenty of "this works fine" approaches
[12:50] Raynos: and then pre load all my models on server startup, then start listening to the express server when all models have emitted loaded
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[12:50] Raynos: But that's a bit hackish so I would upgrade to a more heavy event driven architecture
[12:50] Raynos: EDA : https://github.com/Raynos/ExpressArchTest
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[12:51] Raynos: Glenjamin: Again this depends, I personally recommend you split your models into two objects, thin database access objects and domain objects
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[12:52] dexter_e: var Post = Object.create(Object.prototype, Trait.compose(Trait({....     out of my league at the moment, but thanks :)
[12:52] Glenjamin: Raynos: agreed there, but even then the DOA stuff should still have the database adapter DIed
[12:53] Glenjamin: what are you using for traits?
[12:53] Raynos: Hmm, I wouldnt use DI
[12:53] Raynos: Glenjamin: I use pd and object.create
[12:53] Glenjamin: when i say "DI", i mean pass constructor functions around instead of hard-coding
[12:53] Raynos: dexter_e: That needs rewriting, traits are verbose as hell
[12:53] Glenjamin: not the XML monstrosity you usually get
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[12:53] Raynos: Glenjamin: I would use modular architecture
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[12:54] Raynos: so that have event emitter interfaces and you can swap modules in and out at run time as long a the event emitter interface matches
[12:54] Glenjamin: i've got some example code, hold on
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[12:54] Raynos: dexter_e: that blog code is ugly, I need to fix it
[12:54] ap: hey i'm hoping maybe you guys know what this exception means
[12:54] Raynos: Trait === pd, and Trait.compose === pd.merge
[12:54] ap: op: msg.readUInt8(0, 'big'),
[12:54] ap: i'm getting just "TypeError: Object" on the '.r' character
[12:55] Raynos: ap: try console.log(msg)
[12:55] ap: just started happening out of nowhere and the error isn't really indicating what's wrong
[12:55] Raynos: I presume msg is not what you think it is
[12:55] ap: i've logged it.. it's a Buffer object.. util.inspect dumps it
[12:55] ap: (on the line right before)
[12:55] Glenjamin: Raynos: https://github.com/glenjamin/nodespec/blob/master/lib/example-group.js constructor options.deps, then that one is used on line 342
[12:55] Raynos: try console.log(msg.readUInt8)
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[12:56] dexter_e: Raynos:  https://github.com/Raynos/so642/blob/master/src/model/users.js    I'm looking at this one now..  looks totally clean  I will study this one to model my model after your model  :)  
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[12:56] Glenjamin: lightweight DI, then the test code passes a mock as options.deps.ExampleGroup
[12:56] Raynos: Glenjamin: That's a way to do it
[12:56] Raynos: dexter_e: that wasnt written by me perse, it was written by yojimbo87
[12:56] Raynos: and its very clean
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[12:56] Raynos: Glenjamin: Personally I mock out require
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[12:57] Glenjamin: yeah, i had that before
[12:57] Raynos: Since all dependencies go through requires
[12:57] ap: Raynos: it is undefined.. yet typeof(msg) is object and if i util.inspect it, it is a 'Buffer' and prints out the 300 bytes contained within
[12:57] Glenjamin: and decided that DI was an already solved problem
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[12:57] Raynos: ap: buffer does not have readUInt8 ?
[12:57] ap: it only started happening after i moved the code inside of a constructor func in my library
[12:57] ap: if i run the same code in a flat .js program it works fine
[12:57] Glenjamin: since mocking require via Module._load feels brittle
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[12:57] Raynos: ap: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.11/api/buffers.html
[12:58] Raynos: Glenjamin: It's hackish as hell but it means you dont have to make your code more verbose merely for the sake of testing
[12:58] Raynos: Personally I say make sure your code doesnt know about tests and the test harness
[12:59] Raynos: and hack the test harness as much as you want as long as it works and keeps your code clean and pure
[12:59] Glenjamin: but dependency injection *is* pure
[12:59] Glenjamin: its more pure than loading specific files/functions - it just takes a little bit more effort
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[13:00] Raynos: Glenjamin: I agree, but I'd use event emitters rather then literal dependency objects
[13:00] Glenjamin: for convenience my top-level class construct has some defaults, so I can omit options.deps and it works fine
[13:00] ap: Raynos: oh jeez.. i have to sudo this because it is binding to a low port and root is running v0.4.11 and i'm running v0.5.4-pre
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[13:00] ap: :(
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[13:00] ap: didn't realize the api changed!
[13:00] Glenjamin: yeah, I haven't really tried used emitters for general control flow - just callbacks
[13:00] Raynos: Stop using 0.5 :p
[13:00] Raynos: Glenjamin: https://github.com/Raynos/ExpressArchTest
[13:01] ap: Raynos: well i want those read*() funcs :)
[13:01] Raynos: A demo of using a global event emitter for all your communication
[13:01] Raynos: ap: Use buffertools
[13:01] ap: is there any reason to not target .5?
[13:01] Raynos: its unstable
[13:01] Glenjamin: i think i've looked at this before, seems rather tidy
[13:01] Raynos: Major modules (express) do not support 0.5
[13:01] Glenjamin: but my flow is slightly more linear - i'm not writing web servers
[13:02] agreco has left the channel
[13:02] Raynos: True, it's an architecture that's optional
[13:02] ap: that's fine for me though.. this is a dhcp server, not a web module :)
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[13:02] Raynos: I'd still recommend against running 0.5
[13:02] Raynos: because its unstable
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[13:03] Raynos: Its just more hassle then its worth
[13:03] skratool: in node-amqp, how do you force queue arguments? like some vendor specific stuff of RabbitMQ
[13:03] ap: i wish the docs expressed that these apis were new
[13:03] ap: i already wrote it and got it working.. would be a pain to change now :/
[13:03] Raynos: ap: A docs diff would be great
[13:03] Raynos: You can just use toString(encoding) and split
[13:03] Raynos: Does anyone have a diff setup on all the nodejs docs?
[13:04] ap: the main pita is that if you google for a node api, you get some random version number.. whatever google's indexing returns
[13:04] ap: the practice of keeping each version's docs online doesn't work well with search engines
[13:04] Glenjamin: thats search engine's fault
[13:05] ap: how so?
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[13:05] ap: if more people linked to v0.3 docs a year ago than linked to 0.4.1 docs it makes sense
[13:05] Glenjamin: dunno, but having all versions available and the version number in the URL is fine
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[13:05] ap: makes sense to a human brain, but not to a search engine
[13:05] Glenjamin: just be sure to sanity check the URL when reading docs
[13:05] Glenjamin: or go directly to api docs yourself
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[13:05] ap: a search engine isn't going to know that 0.4.1 is 'prod' and 0.5.5 is 'experimental'
[13:05] Glenjamin: search engines are supposed to find what users want
[13:05] Raynos: ap: meh your competent right?
[13:05] Glenjamin: not the other way around
[13:06] ap: just sayin..
[13:06] Raynos: you can read the node website and go "0.4.11 is current, 0.5.4 is unstable"
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[13:06] CIA-30: node: 03Bert Belder 07master * rf810998 10/ src/tcp_wrap.cc : net_uv: use sufficient buffer to read sock/peername - http://git.io/zr3-IA
[13:06] CIA-30: node: 03Bert Belder 07master * rb5db076 10/ lib/net_uv.js : net_uv: fix 'set is undefined' error - http://git.io/zNe0Og
[13:06] CIA-30: node: 03Bert Belder 07master * r97cf216 10/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Upgrade libuv to e95a29ee18 - http://git.io/SiiqkQ
[13:06] Raynos: "I can see the two docs links on the node website"
[13:06] Glenjamin: it's been an issue with apache docs and java api docs for years
[13:06] Raynos: There are two clear links.
[13:06] Glenjamin: is there a good list of changes from version to version?
[13:06] Raynos: You should be able to navigate to the correct docs
[13:06] ap: Raynos: ok fine, still doesn't solve the diff problem :)
[13:06] Glenjamin: something like : http://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/2.7.html
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[13:08] skratool: guys, honestly no one using AMQP with node?
[13:08] Glenjamin: skratool: i am, why?
[13:08] skratool: Glenjamin: do you use RabbitMQ?
[13:09] Glenjamin: yup
[13:09] Raynos: ap: no it doesnt
[13:09] skratool: know about x-expires queue argument, that can make RabbitMQ delete the queue along with messages after some period?
[13:09] Raynos: can you write an app that makes diffs of the docs
[13:09] Raynos: That would be really useful
[13:10] skratool: Glenjamin: I'm trying to implement support for queue arguments in node-amqp, but having difficulties
[13:10] ap: Raynos: i haven't looked, but are the docs in git? i guess that would be one way to see if the doc version releases were tagged
[13:10] Raynos: yes they are
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[13:10] Glenjamin: skratool: ah, afraid not
[13:10] Glenjamin: i can take a look, but haven't looked into that sort of stuff
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[13:11] rendar: rabbitmq seems very interesting
[13:12] Glenjamin: it's pretty solid from what we've seen
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[13:12] rendar: is written in erlang?
[13:13] Glenjamin: ticking over steadily at around 2^6 messages / 10s throughput with peaks at 2^10
[13:13] Glenjamin: yeah
[13:13] Glenjamin: (my throughput graph is log 2)
[13:13] rendar: wow, erlang is becaming very popular for servers stuff?
[13:13] Nexxy: has been forever!
[13:14] rendar: mmm
[13:14] Nexxy: it's just experiencing a renaissance
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[13:14] rendar: Nexxy: but a server written in C/C++ with kqueue/epoll threadpools etc, won't be faster?
[13:15] Nexxy: rendar, do I look like a benchmark to you? :)
[13:15] Nexxy: (SPOILER: the answer is "no")
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[13:15] rendar: Nexxy: i can't understand why, technically speaking erlang is on a VM, a C/C++ server won't
[13:16] astropirate: Are there any multi-db DBALs for Node yet?
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[13:16] baudehlo: Someone did try to write one.
[13:16] Nexxy: rendar, if speed is your only concern I recommend writing ASM
[13:16] Dmitrijus: actually, me had some bad luck with rabbitmq 
[13:16] Nexxy: rendar, direct control over every bit is the only way to ensure maximum efficiency
[13:16] baudehlo: astropirate: I think it was called node-dbi or something.
[13:16] astropirate: baudehlo: how did that turn out?
[13:17] rendar: Nexxy: well, its not that, but i can't figure out how erlang can beat C stuff
[13:17] baudehlo: astropirate: IIRC nobody responded to the mail on the list about it. So I guess little interest.
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[13:17] Dmitrijus: rendar: it cant, why would you say that? :)
[13:17] Nexxy: rendar, what do you mean by "beat"?
[13:18] Nexxy: erlang was designed for concurrency and fault-tolerance/high availability
[13:18] Nexxy: or I guess OTP was
[13:18] Nexxy: I'm not all that familiar with it
[13:18] astropirate: baudehlo: hmm I am really intrested in a couchDB + mongoDB one   i guess i'm asking too much
[13:19] rendar: Nexxy: i see
[13:19] rendar: Dmitrijus: i don't know, some erlang people says that
[13:20] Dmitrijus: rendar: well, i'm a erlang developer :)
[13:20] rendar: oh
[13:20] Nexxy: rendar, fanboys will always tout their tool of choice's dominance
[13:20] rendar: yes, i agree
[13:21] Nexxy: <insert right-tool-for-the-job speech>
[13:21] Dmitrijus: rendar: actually, if you intergrate some good internal messaging into node.js, it would beat erlang like, really hard
[13:21] Dmitrijus: integrated
[13:21] rendar: i see
[13:21] Glenjamin: s/right/good enough/
[13:23] rendar: thats because node.js has good concurrency routines which manages threadpool in a smarter way?
[13:23] Glenjamin: nodejs has no concurrency
[13:23] Dmitrijus: rendar: actually, the best thing about node.js it that is has no concurency
[13:23] Glenjamin: in the traditional sense
[13:23] Dmitrijus: yes
[13:24] rendar: oh i see
[13:24] rendar: so having just 1 thread managing async stuff, revealed the better solution for say, a server
[13:24] Dmitrijus: rendar: look at all the high performance c servers, the thread-ed models are always slower, while the aio stuff are always faster
[13:25] Dmitrijus: rendar: YES
[13:25] rendar: yes, agreed
[13:25] Nexxy: OS threads!
[13:25] Nexxy: quick way to get DoS'd
[13:25] Dmitrijus: Nexxy: fuck os threads!
[13:25] Nexxy: Dmitrijus, agreed
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[13:25] rendar: but i tought that aio stuff + a pool of threads (say, 1 thread per CPU core, e.g. 4 or 8) would be better than just 1 thread, but its not ...
[13:26] Nexxy: it should be
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[13:26] Nexxy: in the right circumstance
[13:26] Dmitrijus: rendar: sometimes it is, but you have to be really really careful to synchronise stuff
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[13:26] rendar: Dmitrijus: yes, and syncronization brings overhead
[13:27] Nexxy: if you're synchronizing non-blocking processes it shouldn't be a huge overhead
[13:27] Dmitrijus: rendar: well, not really, but well, i've seen a lot of threaded code which, well, mutexes the global resource and other just wait for it to unlock
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[13:27] rendar: yes
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[13:28] rendar: i always wondered how a very big server can manages hundred thousands of connections, and the reply seems to be aio+1 thread now..
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[13:28] Dmitrijus: rendar: well, the biggest servers do it in aio+little thread pool
[13:28] rendar: yes
[13:29] astropirate: I don't understand this benchmark for Connect.js http://tjholowaychuk.com/post/664516126/connect-middleware-for-nodejs  (The very last chart)   how is the response time WITH connect lower than that of just vanilla node?   
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[13:29] rendar: Dmitrijus: so i think also erlang in the lowest level would produce an aio thing with little pool of threads
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[13:30] Dmitrijus: rendar: well, almost all software in erlang is written in non-aio, but in sequential way, basically all the OTP is just there to allow to write blocking code
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[13:31] steveCAustin: Have a beginner usage question:  The examples show "var pool = $.NSAutoreleasePool('alloc')('init');" some have pool('drain') some do not have this.  1)If I alloc all my objects is the 'pool' even nec?  Two, if I don
[13:31] steveCAustin: don't 'drain' what happens??  How long do objects lice?
[13:31] Dmitrijus: rendar: but, the erlang itself has the VM which supports really large amounts of erlang interpretator's, so everything is done in parallel :)
[13:31] rendar: Dmitrijus: uhm, i see, if you want we'll can discuss it later in PM? or we are going off topic here :-P
[13:32] Dmitrijus: rendar: sure
[13:32] Dmitrijus: but anyway, that is, imo, not the best design for the high performance software :)
[13:33] rendar: Dmitrijus: thanks mate, you're great, oh i see, its just a big VM which supports parallels tiny VM into it..basically..
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[13:33] rendar: agreed
[13:33] Glenjamin: astropirate: that is rather odd, i think the benchmarks are part of connect, so you could go look at the code
[13:34] Dmitrijus: rendar: also, nice thing about it is that all the communication between servers/modules is done using messaging, so it create a new level of flexibility for the availability and error recovery
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[13:34] Dmitrijus: creates*, damn s key
[13:35] Dmitrijus: rendar: so thats all :) PM me if you want to discuss anything more :)
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[13:42] clyfe: What do you think of my endeavor to bring Railsy ideas to Node via CoffeeScript on top of Express https://github.com/clyfe/tweet_express ?
[13:43] clyfe: Relevant code: https://github.com/clyfe/tweet_express/tree/master/lib/sugar_cube
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[14:05] DrMcKay_: ah, so I was right, my bot quits because of changing IP
[14:05] DrMcKay_: I have to put him on some server
[14:06] CarterL: DrMcKay_: you see the new about us page?
[14:06] booo has joined the channel
[14:06] DrMcKay_: CarterL: nope, care to link?
[14:06] CarterL: http://adrienolczak.eu/poster/relief1_beta.v.2.1/about_us.html
[14:07] DrMcKay_: I think I owe AdAlpha a shitload of beers
[14:07] DrMcKay_: at least
[14:07] CarterL: if you click on your name below
[14:07] CarterL: it also reveals the popup
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[14:09] DrMcKay_: CarterL: he is seriously the most awesome designer I've seen
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[14:09] CarterL: he's good that's for sure :D
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[14:17] vicapow: does anyone know off hand if it's faster for V8 to compute some.long.propery or to do var prop = some.long.property and just use prop ?
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[14:20] Sembiance: vicapow: test it and see?
[14:20] bradleymeck: vicapow, cache the prop, but beware of async operations where it may change
[14:20] vicapow: Sembiance: i thought someone might have already
[14:20] vicapow: bradleymeck: cool. thank you
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[14:21] Sembiance: vicapow: there is a web site that has a bunch of little 'javascript speed tests' like the one your asking about, that you can easily run and create new ones
[14:21] vicapow: bradleymeck: i guess it also can get sticky with ints and other values that our passed by value
[14:21] Sembiance: I just don't remember the URL
[14:21] vicapow: Sembiance: :(
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[14:22] Sembiance: vicapow: it might even have your test already, it was a great site. I'm looking for it
[14:22] DrMcKay_: vipaca: jsperf
[14:22] Sembiance: http://jsperf.com/browse
[14:22] Sembiance: yah
[14:22] Sembiance: that's it :)
[14:23] vicapow: DrMcKay_: Sembiance sweet
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[14:23] vipaca: o0
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[14:23] DrMcKay: vipaca: sorry, Tab completion
[14:23] vipaca: 8^)
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[14:25] explodes: vicapow: My test is showing that obj.foo.bar.baz is about 75% slower than var prop = obj.foo.bar.baz
[14:25] vicapow: DrMcKay: http://jsperf.com/property-depth-caching
[14:26] vicapow: explodes: DrMcKay: Sembiance: this is awesome guy! thank you
[14:26] explodes: vicapow: But bradleymeck is right, beware of async operations on that property
[14:26] vicapow: explodes: im not sure if i know what you mean
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[14:27] DrMcKay: ah, so it isn't only me to use Math.sqrt for this kind of benchmarks
[14:27] explodes: Well, if you have var obj = {foo: {bar: {baz: 3}}}; var prop = obj.foo.bar.baz; prop will always be 3, but if an async operation does obj.foo.bar.baz = 4, prop will still be 3...
[14:28] vicapow: explodes: i see
[14:28] Sembiance: vicapow: looks like a cached object is far better in firefox, but in chrome both are about equal. I got equal numbers in chrome, but when I ran it in FF, the cached object was doing 7500 ops/sec vs 1400/sec with the deep object
[14:28] explodes: vicapow: So if you want the absolutely most up to date value, you can do: var prop = foo.bar; and use bar.baz (because it is passed by reference not by value)
[14:28] DrMcKay: vicapow: I have 15,788 ops/sec for caching and 16,143 ops/s without it
[14:28] Glenjamin: eugh
[14:29] Glenjamin: premature microoptimisation
[14:29] Glenjamin: let v8 compile it when its identified as hot
[14:29] vicapow: Glenjamin: it also makes my code more readable
[14:29] bradleymeck: anyone know if there is a benchmark for erlang vs node in terms of IO perf?
[14:29] DrMcKay: also, what Glenjamin, in most cases this kind of optimizations won't be neccesary
[14:30] DrMcKay: s/Glenjamin/Glenjamin says/
[14:30] Glenjamin: vicapow: then do it for that reason and don't worry about the speed unless profiling highlights it :)
[14:31] bradleymeck: DrMcKay how many property accesses per iteration was that being tested on?
[14:31] CoverSlide: make a circular reference
[14:32] DrMcKay: bradleymeck: one
[14:32] CoverSlide: console.log(a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.b)
[14:32] vicapow: Glenjamin: I just wanted to know. I'm not noticing a bottle neck but I had a guess as to what was going on that i wanted to verify
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[14:33] Glenjamin: fair enough :)
[14:34] Glenjamin: .. var a = {b:1}; a.a = a; a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.b
[14:34] catb0t: 1
[14:34] dmkbot1: joyent/node: teknopaul: path.normalize no longer works for URLs - https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/1676
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[14:37] DrMcKay: and why are you a dmkbot1, exactly?
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[14:38] bradleymeck: drmckay probably a nick colision and the irc lib just bumped the username
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[14:40] DrMcKay: bradleymeck: but this type of colision shouldn't happen anyway, node-irc just behaves wildly on dynamic IP
[14:40] DrMcKay: it doesn't even disconnect, I think
[14:41] CoverSlide: dynamic ip?
[14:41] CoverSlide: wtF?
[14:41] CoverSlide: those still exist?
[14:41] CoverSlide: 
ACTION blows some dust off his 56k modem

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[14:44] DrMcKay: CoverSlide: in Poland there is a majority of those
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[14:44] baudehlo: bradleymeck: I guess the closest you're going to get is http server performance comparisons.
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[14:57] Sembiance: bradleymeck: http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/2007/08/seven-deadly-sins-of-erlang.html
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[15:00] bradleymeck: sembiance, interesting, but didnt see a benchmark, i have someone who is nagging about erlang being faster for w/e reason and i cant find a benchmark between the 2
[15:01] baudehlo: it's not.
[15:02] Sembiance: bradleymeck: I don't know enough about erlang to really know what I'm talking about with it. I know it was used to implement couchdb, that's about it.  I do know that I love node.js and node.js is super blazingly fast at loads of things, so I can't imagine erlang being a better choice
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[15:02] baudehlo: it automagically uses all the CPUs, so the only benchmarks I've seen show a single CPU node server being slower than a multi-cpu erlang one.
[15:03] Sembiance: bradleymeck: the only reason to choose erlang is if you already have programmers who like/know erlang, or you want to learn erlang to better yourself :)
[15:03] CoverSlide: you got to LEARN YOU SOME ERLANG !!!!
[15:04] CoverSlide: for Great Good!!!
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[15:04] Sembiance: bradleymeck: of course your on a node.js channel, so you'll probably get responses like that. You need to find someone who has coded both and can give an opinion based on experience rather than conjecture
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[15:04] CoverSlide: erlang being able to handle binary natively is a nice win
[15:04] Sembiance: bradleymeck: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3011317/node-js-or-erlang
[15:04] tbranyen: hey guys should i use bash or perl?
[15:05] CoverSlide: tbranyen: use csh
[15:05] baudehlo: tbranyen: yes.
[15:05] CoverSlide: 
ACTION kids

[15:06] tbranyen: can csh handle 9001 concurrent connections tho?
[15:06] swaj: anybody know of a good javascript charting library that has a decent amount of charts and is free or cheap for commercial use?
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[15:08] CoverSlide: `a decent amount of charts`?
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[15:09] Sembiance: swaj: http://www.highcharts.com/
[15:09] swaj: CoverSlide: yeah like support for pie, bar, line, column, stacked column, etc.
[15:10] swaj: Sembiance: saw them, looks nice, was wondering about others too
[15:10] alexh: http://www.rgraph.net/ , http://processingjs.org/ , http://ocanvas.org/
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[15:11] Sembiance: swaj: I investigated a crap ton of javascript based charting libraries about 4 months ago. highcharts by far was the best. Totally open source (on github). Also totally free for non-commercial apps.  Commercial apps can afford to pay the $80
[15:11] alexh: http://raphaeljs.com/
[15:11] CoverSlide: damn highcharts is sweet
[15:11] CoverSlide: even does vml conversion for IE
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[15:11] Sembiance: raphael is really nifty if your doing some more primitive work, but for a nice polished charting library with lots of options, highcharts is super nicer
[15:11] Sembiance: nicer==nice
[15:12] CoverSlide: (I know raphael does it too)
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[15:12] alexh: im just listing the ones i know :)
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[15:12] CoverSlide: g.raphael is good, but damn, I'm liking highcharts
[15:13] alexh: i wish there was a js-chart that looked as good as pChart does http://pchart.sourceforge.net/
[15:13] alexh: http://www.pchart.net/ rather
[15:13] swaj: yeah I'm thinking we'll probably go with highcharts -- I want to try and integrate it with email though.  Basically I need it to look sweet in the browser, but I also want to render the chart as a jpg to attach to emails, too.
[15:14] CoverSlide: well if one of those has a binding to node-canvas you'd be set
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[15:16] Sembiance: swaj: I stand by highcharts, but here is a list of JS charting libs I came up with when I was doing my research a few months ago: http://pastebin.com/F42d5CxN
[15:16] swaj: looks like I might be able to make highcharts work for me... this looks interesting for exporting the charts:  https://github.com/imclem/Highcharts-export-module-asp.net
[15:16] swaj: thanks all, will do some homework now :)
[15:16] Sembiance: swaj" some of those are a list of js chart libraries, like http://blogfreakz.com/javascript/javascript-chart-library/
[15:16] temongantengbgt: any tutorial using node.js for notifications with codeigniter framework?
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[15:21] gr33d: im looking for help building node.js in cygwin--i've tried several different versions but i keep running into errors like "could not configure a cxx compiler" even after rebasing, rebooting, etc. has anyone successfully built a version in cygwin?
[15:22] springmeyer has joined the channel
[15:23] Sembiance: gr33d: just curious, any reason your building it on windows vs just using the .exe ?
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[15:24] gr33d: im following the tutorial at nodebeginner.org and am looking to use npm to install the formidable module
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[15:25] Sembiance: gr33d: by the way, work is underway for a native windows port of node.js: http://blog.nodejs.org/2011/06/23/porting-node-to-windows-with-microsoft%E2%80%99s-help/
[15:25] industrial: gr33d why not a virtual machine?
[15:25] industrial: with linux
[15:25] context: or just buy a mac
[15:25] industrial: eg openbox which is open source / free
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[15:26] CoverSlide: *virtualbox
[15:26] gr33d: ive used virtualbox and vmware player in the past with relative ease
[15:26] CoverSlide: cygwin barely and rarely works with node
[15:27] gr33d: so ive noticed ;)
[15:27] joshkehn: brarely? 
[15:27] CoverSlide: and npm is a nightmare, although technically functional
[15:27] gr33d: ive been using the windows.exe up until the need for npm, but i was hoping for a cygwin build
[15:27] gr33d: perhaps vm is the way to go--im familiar enough with linux
[15:28] CoverSlide: but for native windows npm, you'll have to wait till at least Christmas, which was the last estimate I saw
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[15:28] Sembiance: gr33d: a vm is 100% the way to go. you'll find many npm modules won't even work on windows. heck I've coded one that I KNOW won't work on windows :)
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[15:30] sriley: tbh you should develop on the platform you want to deploy on, so unless youre planning on delpoying to a windows box best not to develop on it
[15:30] gr33d: fair enough, thanks for the recommendations everyone
[15:31] CIA-30: node: 03Ben Noordhuis 07master * rfa334ef 10/ wscript : build: install uv-private/*.h, fixes native add-on builds - http://git.io/JSrNFw
[15:31] gr33d: any recommendations on virtualbox vs vmware player vs openbox on a 64-bit windows host?
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[15:32] softdrink: Hey guys, I'm having an issue with using Backbone on both client and server.  I'm using Zepto on the client. When Backbone goes to create the main element for a View, it dies on $(el).make, because $ is undefined within the closure. Any advice?
[15:32] mrryanjohnston_ has joined the channel
[15:32] CoverSlide: not sure what limitations there are for vmware player
[15:33] softdrink: I forgot to mention, i'm using Browserify specifically
[15:33] softdrink: kindof important.
[15:33] softdrink: hehe
[15:34] CoverSlide: $ should be defined globally
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[15:34] Sembiance: gr33d: I would say virtualbox or vmware. I've used both, both work just great :)
[15:34] CoverSlide: unless zepto exports $ when browserified
[15:35] CoverSlide: in which case you probably have to require it
[15:35] softdrink: $ /is/ defined globally there, but is undefined within the closure that's wrapping backbone.
[15:35] DrMcKay: uh, oh. can you check if process with given PID is up with node.js?
[15:35] softdrink: according to the webkit inspector anyway
[15:35] CoverSlide: how can it be undefined if it's global?
[15:35] mrryanjohnston_: gruff. is anyone here using hook.io for something cool?
[15:36] CoverSlide: haiub is cool
[15:36] softdrink: because require is doing (function () { backbone here }).call(module.exports)
[15:36] bnoordhuis: gr33d: user mode linux!
[15:36] CoverSlide: it uses hook.io
[15:36] bnoordhuis: gr33d: i half-kid but i'm a fan of UML
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[15:36] bnoordhuis: oh wait, windows host
[15:36] softdrink: backbone is looking for this.Zepto
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[15:37] softdrink: and 'this' is module.exports then :(
[15:37] mrryanjohnston_: CoverSlide: haiub?
[15:37] mrryanjohnston_: no results on google or github
[15:37] bnoordhuis: gr33d: sorry, i read that as linux-on-linux
[15:37] softdrink: haibu
[15:37] tbranyen: softdrink: override _ensureElement with a nop
[15:37] CoverSlide: *haibu
[15:37] mrryanjohnston_: oh oh
[15:38] tbranyen: softdrink: if (Backbone.isServer) { ql.views.ViewPartial.prototype._ensureElement = function() {};
[15:38] tbranyen: }
[15:38] tbranyen: is what i'm doing
[15:38] mrryanjohnston_: anyone outside of nodejitsu? ;)
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[15:38] softdrink: orly
[15:38] softdrink: oh wait no… this is happening in the client.
[15:38] tbranyen: oh
[15:38] tbranyen: well you need jquery, zepto, or ender
[15:38] tbranyen: in order to use backbone...
[15:38] softdrink: i'm using zepto
[15:39] tbranyen: make sure you have one of those :-p
[15:40] softdrink: my html file includes zepto, then my browserify entry point, then a script block that instantiates my controller on dom ready after requiring it
[15:40] CoverSlide: http://www.colinux.org/ <<-- needs node support asap
[15:41] mrryanjohnston_: CoverSlide: why?
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[15:41] CoverSlide: because it's awesome
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[15:42] mrryanjohnston_: CoverSlide: lol I don't understand why, at that point, you wouldn't just run linux
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[15:54] CoverSlide: hey tim
[15:54] CoverSlide: congrats on nko win
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[16:00] nibblebot: SubStack: have time to answer some questions on node-seq?
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[16:01] Raynos: http://www.catonmat.net/blog/browserling-open-sources-90-node-modules/?utm_source=javascriptweekly&utm_medium=email
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[16:01] Raynos: SubStack: o/ this is awesome.
[16:01] d_low: anyone have suggestions for free nodejs hosting providers for hobbiests? I've tried no.de and nodester so far. Just curious if there are others?
[16:02] Raynos: d_low: heroku
[16:02] Raynos: d_low: http://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/node-js
[16:02] CoverSlide: there's dotcloud
[16:02] CoverSlide: which I haven't tried
[16:03] AvianFlu: also hang out in #nodejitsu
[16:03] CoverSlide: but i did try dotster before they got bought by dotcloud
[16:03] Raynos: I've tried a few and heroku was it easiest to work without waiting for keys and hacking
[16:03] Raynos: Alternatively lurk in #nodejitsu
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[16:05] creationix: CoverSlide: :)
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[16:05] CoverSlide: 
ACTION wants a metawatch

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[16:07] d_low: thanks
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[16:08] Benjie: It's not clear to me if a Writeable Stream can have .write(string) called multiple times without waiting for a 'drain' event - do I need to do my own buffer handling or does Writeable Stream do it for me? http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.8/api/streams.html#writable_Stream
[16:08] softdrink: 
ACTION pulls his hair out

[16:09] AvianFlu: Benjie, if you're not writing a lot at a time, there's a good chance you'll never notice it
[16:09] brianc: Benjie: the stream will buffer it for you
[16:09] AvianFlu: but when you call write, it returns true or false
[16:10] AvianFlu: so then you just wait for drain and re-write if it returns false
[16:10] AvianFlu: false means "could not write, buffer full" in other words
[16:10] AvianFlu: if your source is a readable stream, though, just do readStream.pipe(writeStream)
[16:10] AvianFlu: that will handle everything for you
[16:11] Benjie: AvianFlu: I understood that was the kernel buffer - what you're saying implies that Writeable Stream has no internal buffer in addition to the kernel buffer.
[16:11] AvianFlu: and I think that's true.
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[16:12] AvianFlu: might be wrong, but I think that's how that works.
[16:12] Benjie: AvianFlu: thanks for your help. It's not a readable stream (well, it is a large number of readable streams…) and it could potentially be too fast for the kernel buffer, so I'll implement my own buffer :)
[16:12] AvianFlu: Stream.pipe() has all that backpressure handling built in
[16:13] AvianFlu: so if it's possible for you to use it, it will help you out
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[16:13] CoverSlide: what about util.pump
[16:13] AvianFlu: readStreams have .pause() and .resume()
[16:13] CoverSlide: 
ACTION loves pump

[16:13] AvianFlu: what's the difference
[16:13] creationix: util.pump is old
[16:13] creationix: it's the node v0.2.x version of pipe
[16:13] CoverSlide: i thought it was lower-level than pipe
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[16:14] d_low: im going to give heroku a try. So far no.de has been painful and nodester is broken, I think
[16:14] creationix: d_low: are you against setting up your own
[16:14] AvianFlu: last I heard, heroku had no support people for node.js
[16:14] Raynos: d_low: agreed, hang out in #heroku
[16:14] AvianFlu: just FYI
[16:15] Raynos: It does support node.js
[16:15] creationix: d_low: a vanilla linux vps isn't hard to set up
[16:15] Raynos: It doesnt support websocket servers
[16:15] AvianFlu: two different things: platform support and people support
[16:15] creationix: and you get full capabilities
[16:15] softdrink: i'm about 3 seconds from ditching this combo and doing everything in plain-ass js.
[16:15] AvianFlu: softdrink++
[16:15] v8bot_:  AvianFlu has given a beer to softdrink. softdrink now has 2 beers.
[16:15] temongantengbgt: web soket or long poll?? 
[16:15] Raynos: AvianFlu: True but the official tutorial on the heroku site was painless for me
[16:15] Raynos: they block websockets, longpolling works
[16:16] creationix: websockets are hard to get nowadays since ip addresses are hard to come by
[16:16] Raynos: Heroku wasnt build to do websockets (their scaling system doesnt allow it)
[16:16] AvianFlu: nodejitsu proxies websockets though :)
[16:16] creationix: no.de has them because they use nodejitsu's proxy that supports em
[16:16] AvianFlu: yep :)
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[16:16] Raynos: I would use nodejitsu's service instead ;) havn't tried it personally
[16:16] CoverSlide: 
ACTION is still waiting on his invite

[16:17] AvianFlu: we've been hand-confirming beta accounts
[16:17] softdrink: hey it's that jslitmus guy
[16:17] softdrink: hehe
[16:17] AvianFlu: so if you signed up months ago but I never found out, it's hard to get a confirmation!
[16:17] Raynos: But heroku is the most stable free provider without a beta/signup process
[16:17] creationix: sure, but heroku doesn't really support node
[16:18] Raynos: AvianFlu: Will the nodejitsu team offer limited free services after launch?
[16:18] creationix: even dreamhost has some node support
[16:18] Raynos: creatonix: They have no proper support, it's still easy to slap a quick test server on it
[16:18] Raynos: I wouldnt use it for production
[16:18] AvianFlu: I'm pretty sure that's the idea - to have a little slice for free or something
[16:18] CoverSlide: dreamhost?
[16:18] creationix: dreamhost is old-school shared hosting
[16:18] CoverSlide: aren't they a php shop?
[16:19] creationix: they oversell like crazy and have really low prices
[16:19] creationix: php mainly, but they support rails and node
[16:19] CoverSlide: hmm
[16:19] creationix: I wouldn't do it
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[16:19] DrMcKay: I wouldn't put node on one server with PHP
[16:19] creationix: though I do use dreamhost for my dns
[16:19] d_low: I'm not against running my own. I'm just trying what's out there. To be honest though, I've been doing sysadmin since the late 90's and I'm getting a bit tired of dealing with the os stack.
[16:19] CoverSlide: i was working on a site for a friend who had a dreamhost account
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[16:19] softdrink: libraries y u no play nice?  (屮゜Д゜)屮 
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[16:20] CoverSlide: i tried running a node server on it, they caught it, killed it, and tried to get my friend to upgrade to a vps
[16:20] Raynos: There was a recent amazon EC2 post : http://blog.carbonfive.com/2011/09/01/deploying-node-js-on-amazon-ec2/?utm_source=javascriptweekly&utm_medium=email
[16:21] softdrink: i'm pretty happy with my Linode hosting
[16:21] creationix: CoverSlide: right, they now have vps and probably have less support for node on shared instances
[16:21] CoverSlide: yeah I'd go with linode
[16:21] AvianFlu: If a person was gonna go for their own VPS, I'd say linode or rackspace
[16:21] Raynos: I've played with linode for node knockout. Just ssh in and hack away. 
[16:21] creationix: I use linode for play, no.de for howtonode.org
[16:21] creationix: aka howto.no.de ;)
[16:21] AvianFlu: lol nice
[16:21] CoverSlide: i have an old desktop plugged into my home server running archlinux
[16:21] DrMcKay: that's a pretty domain hack :D
[16:21] CoverSlide: that's what I use primarily
[16:22] CoverSlide: just hoping verizon doesn't find out
[16:22] creationix: arch is pretty sweet, though I've never used it for a server
[16:22] creationix: ubuntu server is plenty lean for me
[16:22] mikedeboer has joined the channel
[16:22] creationix: at least linode's version
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[16:22] d_low: im not sure arch's rolling release process is the best for server. Seems like it would be an administrative pain
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[16:23] d_low: i use arch for desktop use though
[16:23] creationix: exactly
[16:23] d_low: i like point releases for servers
[16:23] DrMcKay: Fedora FTW
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[16:23] d_low: tbh, i run freebsd on my home server :-p
[16:23] CoverSlide: i like cutting-edge
[16:23] creationix: I can create a linode ubuntu instance and have a server deployed and running in minutes
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[16:24] creationix: just a couple apr-get commands, download nvm, build node, git clone, npm install and write an upstart script
[16:24] CoverSlide: plus node is in the official arch repos
[16:24] CoverSlide: or rather 'community' repos
[16:24] creationix: CoverSlide: but how well does it stay up to date
[16:25] creationix: and I'll bet it doesn't support multiple installed versions
[16:25] CoverSlide: it keeps up with stable pretty well
[16:25] creationix: I wrote nvm for my deployment so I can roll back and test easily
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[16:25] creationix: but it's nice for local development too, being able to test several versions
[16:26] CoverSlide: and if i want, i can get nvm or nave and build from there
[16:28] dscape: anyone knows how to force resp.write write a string so that the data event catches a string and not a object or buffer?
[16:28] dscape: tried all the encodings and none does that
[16:28] dscape: ascii, base64, binary, null (default_
[16:28] CoverSlide: utf8?
[16:28] dscape: that was my first try CoverSlide thanks
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[16:30] agoole: I have nodejs running and I'm using screen to edit and run several files using sockets
[16:30] CoverSlide: resp.write? there's a data event for that?
[16:30] agoole: and once in a while, it says that node or coffee aren't commands anymore
[16:30] creationix: dscape: what "data event"
[16:30] agoole: does anyone have any clue what could be causing my issue ?
[16:31] creationix: dscape: the sending encoding and the receiving encoding aren't tied
[16:31] creationix: it's all buffers while in transit
[16:31] creationix: on readers, you .setEncoding before listening for 'data' events
[16:31] dscape: if you are using node.js only that is true creationix 
[16:31] dscape: or so it seems
[16:31] dscape: problem is im trying to replicate a problem between the couch app server and node
[16:31] dscape: and put that in a unit test
[16:31] dscape: :)
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[16:32] creationix: dscape: so if resp.write part of a node http server?
[16:32] creationix: *is
[16:32] dscape: yeah
[16:32] creationix: then .setEncoding does nothing to resp
[16:32] creationix: it's only writeable
[16:33] CoverSlide: once it hits the network, it's all binary
[16:33] creationix: dscape: what's on the other side of the socket?
[16:33] creationix: a node http client or something else?
[16:33] dscape: node js http client
[16:33] dscape: request
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[16:33] creationix: ok, then .setEncoding on that request to 'utf8' and you'll get strings instead of buffers for data events
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[16:33] dscape: lets try that
[16:34] dscape: thanks creationix 
[16:34] creationix: :)
[16:34] Benjie: "fs.writeSync(fd, str, position, encoding='utf8')" claims to be "Synchronous version of string-based fs.write(). Returns the number of bytes written." but I don't see a string-based fs.write() in the documentation - only a buffer based one? Do I need my eyes tested?
[16:34] Illusioneer has left the channel
[16:34] Benjie: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.11/api/fs.html#fs.write
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[16:35] DrMcKay: creationix: I forgot to ask: https://gist.github.com/1182068 , first file. are you a machine or something?
[16:35] creationix: DrMcKay: I didn't write that
[16:36] creationix: DrMcKay: it's the glMatrix library minified
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[16:36] TRON_: 4th law of robotics: never reveal that you are a robot
[16:36] DrMcKay: creationix: ah, thanks goodness (why didn't I google glMatrix?)
[16:37] TooTallNate has joined the channel
[16:37] DrMcKay: creationix: but still, I think that you're a machine
[16:37] CoverSlide: http://code.google.com/p/glmatrix/source/browse/glMatrix.js
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[16:37] ecto: who did I meet at nodeconf?
[16:37] context: ecto: cooler
[16:37] ecto:  /ignore -channels #mwsf * JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS
[16:37] context: cause everyone loves ectocoolers
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[16:39] creationix: DrMcKay: this ugly was, however, written by hand https://github.com/creationix/jsonparse/blob/master/jsonparse.js
[16:39] creationix: not minified, but still pretty dense
[16:39] ecto: cooler: not sure what an ectocooler is, but my name is a ghost busters reference ;)
[16:39] ecto: *content:
[16:39] context: hahaha
[16:39] context: ecto: the cooler was a joke
[16:39] context: sorry
[16:40] JSManiacs: creationix: congrats on the tech crunch love this morning
[16:40] ecto: context: ah, I though you might have been referring to the copious amounts of beer
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[16:41] creationix: JSManiacs: hmm, haven't seen that yet
[16:42] JSManiacs: creationix: Ha ha… http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/09/node-js-knockout-2011-winners-revealed/
[16:42] JSManiacs: they have a nice video of your app
[16:42] context: ecto: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hi-C#Ecto-Cooler
[16:42] DrMcKay: creationix: just admit that you're a AI.
[16:42] creationix: DrMcKay: never
[16:42] DrMcKay: s/ a /an/
[16:42] creationix: that would be SubStack
[16:42] DrMcKay: creationix: yes, you are.
[16:42] davidascher has joined the channel
[16:43] DrMcKay: SubStack is totally different case
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[16:43] JSManiacs: I'm fairly convinced the top 10 in http://npmtop.nodejitsu.com/ are all machines
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[16:43] Benjie: Can someone confirm that there is a string (not buffer) version of fs.write()?
[16:43] creationix: nice, techcrunch is hot linking to my linode server
[16:43] creationix: there goes the bandwidth
[16:43] DrMcKay: JSManiacs: ah, yes, possibly
[16:43] TooTallNate: JSManiacs: I guess that makes me the first human on the list!
[16:44] JSManiacs: creationix:  yeah, the video was pretty laggy at times
[16:44] creationix: streaming m4v over a node server on linode's cheapest box
[16:44] creationix: that will scale fine, right?
[16:44] creationix: I'm just glad it's still up
[16:45] JSManiacs: the no.de stack should be looking pretty interesting right about now.  Observer was having some scaling issues everytime it was written up
[16:45] creationix: nice, used 27gb already this morning
[16:45] creationix: go techcrunch
[16:45] CoverSlide: haha
[16:45] creationix: I've still got over 170gb left so it should be fine
[16:45] JSManiacs: do you pay for bandwidth on linode?
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[16:46] creationix: I'm not sure what happens when you go over
[16:46] creationix: I've never gotten near my 200gb/month
[16:46] CoverSlide: did you take the video down?
[16:47] Benjie: "Error: EMFILE, Too many open files '/home/tim/minimason.m4v'" :(
[16:47] creationix: bah, it's my node server not being nice
[16:47] creationix: I guess I'll have to baby sit it
[16:47] creationix: except I can't ssh from work
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[16:47] CoverSlide: oh there it goes
[16:47] creationix: 
ACTION fires up a 4g hotspot

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[16:49] DrMcKay: creationix: set up a SSH server on 443?
[16:50] japj has joined the channel
[16:50] CoverSlide: except how to do that without ssh access
[16:51] DrMcKay: my school admin is an idiot, he even blocked github (but I can still set up a SSH tunnel)
[16:51] DrMcKay: CoverSlide: good point
[16:51] creationix: hence the 4g hotspot
[16:51] jobim: ooh 4g
[16:51] creationix: joy joys of working for a mobile company
[16:52] DrMcKay: creationix: why would they even block SSH? don't you use it for work?
[16:52] creationix: DrMcKay: no idea, though most our servers are inside the vpn
[16:52] creationix: so it's nto a big deal most of the time
[16:53] context: drmckay: wtf
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[16:54] creationix: maybe I just need to restart the server with a larger fd pool
[16:54] DrMcKay: creationix: but still, it isn't a sane thing to do to programmers
[16:54] DrMcKay: context: ?
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[17:00] creationix: and it died
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[17:00] CoverSlide: awww
[17:00] creationix: I need to run more production servers
[17:00] creationix: "No data received" from chrome
[17:00] creationix: not sure what node bug that is
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[17:01] CoverSlide: yeah i got that from wget 
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[17:01] CoverSlide: odd
[17:01] creationix: alright, ssh got!
[17:01] softdrink: is there a way to use npm to stitch together a single js file from files that require eachother?
[17:01] isaacs:   softdrink no, but i think browserify does this
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[17:02] creationix: I should add an in-memory cache for hot files like this
[17:02] softdrink: browserify is giving me a headache currently… still...
[17:02] creationix: if I just kept the video in ram it would scale a lot better
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[17:02] tjholowaychuk: creationix if you're using connect I added an lru cache to static()
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[17:03] creationix: tjholowaychuk: nah, it's stack + creationix
[17:03] creationix: think the lru would work for that
[17:03] tjholowaychuk: ah
[17:03] DrMcKay: creationix: it's a static file, use some static file server (<- it's me being creative)
[17:03] creationix: besides, the video is range requests in most browsers
[17:03] creationix: DrMcKay: blashpemy!
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[17:03] DrMcKay: creationix: ah, you're generating this video on the fly :D ?
[17:04] creationix: DrMcKay: no, all of creationix.com:80 is static content
[17:04] CoverSlide: ha that would be cool
[17:04] creationix: except for directory listing
[17:04] creationix: it helps me test node
[17:04] creationix: btw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IYme6zJr1o
[17:04] creationix: should scale well
[17:05] creationix: they know something about streaming video
[17:05] DrMcKay: creationix: but they aren't using node
[17:06] CoverSlide: DrMcKay: they're probably using python
[17:06] DrMcKay: CoverSlide: then I like them
[17:06] pizthewiz has joined the channel
[17:06] CoverSlide: :p
[17:06] DrMcKay: but still, there may be some Java involved
[17:06] DrMcKay: I can't trust them
[17:07] ph^ has joined the channel
[17:08] DrMcKay: btw, I wrote a image to html converter, I could write something replacing <img> tags with generated HTML on the fly :D
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[17:09] DrMcKay: I think I know how 1st April will look on my website
[17:09] CarterL: awful?
[17:09] DrMcKay: CarterL: pretty much
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[17:10] DrMcKay: CarterL: and, like, 2 MB of markup
[17:10] CarterL: so normal
[17:10] CoverSlide: normalize.css song! http://music.thewikies.com/jonneal/Jonathan_Neal_-_Normalize.html
[17:10] DrMcKay: CarterL: :D
[17:10] CarterL: :D
[17:11] DrMcKay: CoverSlide: nerd rap ftw
[17:11] Techplex: I accidentally made and installed mode 5.6-pre is there anyway to revert to the last stable version on fedora?
[17:11] DrMcKay: Techplex: from git?
[17:11] Techplex: yes DrMcKay
[17:11] CoverSlide: git checkout 0.4.11 ?
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[17:12] DrMcKay: Techplex: what CoverSlide says
[17:12] DrMcKay: Techplex: checkout v0.4.11 or v0.5.5
[17:12] creationix: Techplex: nvm
[17:12] Techplex: I refollowed the instructions,
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[17:12] DrMcKay: Techplex: nvm stands for node version manager, not for never mind
[17:13] Techplex: after make then Make install node -v says 0.5.6-pre
[17:13] Techplex: ok so
[17:13] DrMcKay: Techplex: go to node dir
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[17:13] DrMcKay: Techplex: git checkout v0.5.5
[17:13] DrMcKay: Techplex: configure and build it
[17:13] creationix: hmm, perhaps I should have given it another name
[17:14] creationix: if you already have a git clone use that
[17:14] techplexengineer: is 0.5.5 compatible with npm?
[17:14] isaacs: techplexengineer: should be
[17:14] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: yes
[17:14] creationix: but otherwise nvm basically just downloads tarballs, configures them with custom prefixes and installs them in parallel folders
[17:15] techplexengineer: ok so i checkedout v0.5.5
[17:15] techplexengineer: now i do configure?
[17:15] ruprict: Hullo all….what recommendations for recursive mkdir?  I found https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/513, but it doesn't look like it made it into the code base.
[17:15] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: ./configure && make && sudo make install
[17:15] creationix: "Your Linode, creationix, has exceeded the notification threshold (5) for outbound traffic rate by averaging 7.01 Mb/s for the last 2 hours"
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[17:15] mrryanjohnston_: ruprict: https://github.com/substack/node-mkdirp
[17:15] CoverSlide: npm install mkdirp
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[17:16] CoverSlide: derp
[17:16] isaacs: MacDerp
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[17:16] ruprict: mrryanjohnston_: Cheers…any idea why that pull request didn't get linked?
[17:16] mrryanjohnston_: ruprict: iunno
[17:16] isaacs: SubStack: how would you feel about adding permissions/ownership logic to mkdirp?
[17:16] mrryanjohnston_: I literally know niothing about that project :p
[17:16] isaacs: SubStack: that's all that's keeping me from using your thing rather than the thing in npm now
[17:18] halfhalo: heh.  linode...
[17:18] blkcat: linode <3
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[17:19] techplexengineer: DrMcKay Bad things happened
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[17:21] techplexengineer: DrMcKay: Here is the error https://gist.github.com/1206793
[17:21] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: make distclean && ccache -C
[17:21] tisba: hey guys. I'd could use some help/input on a problem I'm currently trying to debug. I'm using cluster to implement quite a simple http server. In production even under quite normal load (1k req/s) workers start to use saturate a cpu core and not doing anything (strace told me so). if I let it continue to run without restarting, at some point no working workers are left.
[17:21] creationix: the good news is that node is using only about 2% CPU to serve that 8mb/sec for the last 2 hours
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[17:22] techplexengineer: DrMcKay: Do I run the make Install command now?
[17:22] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: no, make first
[17:22] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: then make install
[17:22] techplexengineer: DrMcKay: Don't I need to configure?
[17:23] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: and configure, yes
[17:23] techplexengineer: ok DrMcKay it doing its thing
[17:28] techplexengineer: DrMcKay: It is now done make, anything special or just make install
[17:28] bradleymeck: ryah, when you get time in coming future, if you could write up those debugger wants we briefly talked about (ill assume vt102 ansi codes are fine)
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[17:29] CoverSlide: sudo make install
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[17:30] CoverSlide: sudo make sandwich
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[17:30] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: sudo make install
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[17:32] postwait: skratool: where you looking for me?
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[17:33] techplexengineer: DrMcKay: ok so now what are those export things that it says to do in the instructions
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[17:33] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: would you mind linking the docs? I'm not sure what are you talking about
[17:34] techplexengineer: https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Installation
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[17:34] techplexengineer: Step 3a
[17:34] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: don't care about it unless you installed node in your home directory
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[17:35] CoverSlide: JOBS=2 ??
[17:36] DrMcKay: CoverSlide: Tim Cook?
[17:36] jamund: I found that between mongoose 1.8.1 and mongoose 1.8.2 my db connection starts to hang. Latest 2.1.2 doesn't solve the problem. I've looked through the serouce trying to understand what might be wrong and I'm getting no errors. Anyone know the potential problem or how to turn on more verbose errors in mongoose?
[17:36] lmatteis_ has joined the channel
[17:36] techplexengineer: DrMcKay: ok so then when i try to use npm to install express i get this: https://raw.github.com/gist/1206793/1009c0b06aa63adda86ed0889d588a09aea51a48/NPM%20error
[17:37] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: npm install express --node-version 0.4.11
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[17:37] CoverSlide: oh its a wscript variable
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[17:39] techplexengineer: DrMcKay I think that most of my trouble is stemming from the fact that the instructions say to do this all in my home directory yet npm didn't install there.
[17:40] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: no
[17:41] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: express just won't install with node v0.5.*
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[17:41] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: I'm doing perfectly fine with node under /usr :)
[17:41] esmevane has joined the channel
[17:41] techplexengineer: ok
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[17:44] techplexengineer: DrMcKay: Would you have any recommendations for someone new to node. Where to go from here. I have been through the node hello world tutorial.(Felix's Node.js Beginners Guide)
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[17:44] DrMcKay: any advice to this sir ^ ?
[17:45] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: I don't really know, I started from patching node itself
[17:45] techplexengineer: ah
[17:45] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: but that's not really the way :D
[17:45] techplexengineer: :)
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[17:46] techplexengineer: DrMcKay: many of the tutorials and blog entries for beginners are incomplete and there is a very large leap between them and what is complete. I'll have to find a project and tear it apart.
[17:46] techplexengineer: DrMcKay: Thanks so much for your help and insight.  
[17:46] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: start with coding and google when some problem appears
[17:47] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: :)
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[17:49] techplexengineer: DrMcKay: Thanks again. I must now run.. More node later! :)
[17:49] CoverSlide: techplexengineer: http://docs.nodejitsu.com/
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[17:49] DrMcKay: techplexengineer: what CoverSlide says, it's a great resource
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[17:49] CoverSlide: booyakasha!
[17:49] techplexengineer: Cooleo! Thanks
[17:50] DrMcKay: AvianFlu: not that I'm harassing you somehow, but you have to get yourself tickets ;)
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[17:51] AvianFlu: man, I'm way too busy for all this stuff
[17:52] ps_jinx: hey I wanted to contribute to nodejs and started reading source code .. I was looking at commit logs but it looks like there are total 120 pages on github in commit history https://github.com/joyent/node/commits/master?page=122 .. I need suggestions for how to start with codebase before submitting any patch
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[17:53] DrMcKay: AvianFlu: for conf or for tickets?
[17:53] AvianFlu: probably for both :(
[17:55] DrMcKay: AvianFlu: no, you're not :)
[17:55] JSManiacs: techplexengineer:  What do you want to do with node?  Commit to its core?  Work with v8?  Or build web apps?
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[17:55] DrMcKay: ps_jinx: don't care about history, read issues
[17:55] TooTallNate: ps_jinx: https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Contributing
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[18:20] jhurliman: tjholowaychuk, are you one of the authors of cluster?
[18:20] EyePulp: he's the author of many clusters. =)
[18:21] EyePulp: 
ACTION jokes, of course...

[18:21] tjholowaychuk: jhurliman yup
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[18:22] jhurliman: do you think it would be possible to build basic monit-like functionality into a cluster plugin? i want to do something like "if the launched processes are eating up more than X ram or Y% cpu for some interval, restart"
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[18:24] tjholowaychuk: jhurliman i've thought about it but it would be best to wait until plugins dont run in master
[18:24] jhurliman: ah ok
[18:24] tjholowaychuk: i want to move them out to their own process(es) so master is more stable
[18:24] tjholowaychuk: since it's usually just for reporting or some administration etc
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[18:26] erichynds: I'm using handlebars for both client templates and server-side templates. problem is of course, if I have a template embedded in my layout file that I want to use strictly on the client site, node picks it up and tries to render it.
[18:26] erichynds: what's the best way around that? load client template in via ajax?
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[18:27] softdrink: screw it. rolled back. no more browserify.
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[18:44] Raynos: o/
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[18:45] marshall: sup node
[18:45] Raynos: What' exciting in the node world today
[18:46] creationix: nko on techcrunch
[18:46] DrMcKay: Raynos: Relief1 hackaton :D
[18:46] joshkehn: creationix++
[18:46] v8bot_:  joshkehn has given a beer to creationix. creationix now has 1 beers.
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[18:46] supjeff: tjholowaychuk: I really like stylus, I definitely prefer to use it over Less but we have to get it working on the front-end
[18:46] tjholowaychuk: supjeff why?
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[18:47] supjeff: so people who don't use node can try it
[18:47] supjeff: tjholowaychuk: ^
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[18:47] tjholowaychuk: i guess, but those are also the people that compile css in the browser in production haha
[18:47] tjholowaychuk: bad bad
[18:47] JaKWaC has joined the channel
[18:47] tjholowaychuk: but yeah as far as trying things out go i agree
[18:47] tjholowaychuk: that's the only real benefit less has
[18:47] vikstrous_ has joined the channel
[18:47] supjeff: yeah, but as open source software goes
[18:48] supjeff: the more support something has, even if it's not the best per-se
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[18:48] supjeff: it ends up becoming the standard
[18:48] vikstrous_ has joined the channel
[18:48] tjholowaychuk: for sure
[18:48] supjeff: twitter put out their boilerplate that uses less
[18:48] Raynos: DrMcKay: charity ?
[18:48] tjholowaychuk: stylus is just a lot larger so it would be somewhat difficult
[18:48] DrMcKay: Raynos: yes :) https://github.com/Relief-1/Relief1
[18:48] supjeff: I wouldn't have even considered less before they did that
[18:49] supjeff: oh
[18:49] supjeff: hmm
[18:49] Raynos: tjholowaychuk: there's value in a client side compiler for on the fly demos / testing as part of the documentation (for stylus)
[18:49] Raynos: Oh you already said that >_<
[18:49] Sorella: tjholowaychuk, there are seriously people that compile CSS in the *browser* in *production*?
[18:49] Sorella: shameful.
[18:49] tjholowaychuk: yeah
[18:49] tjholowaychuk: lots of people actually haha
[18:50] tjholowaychuk: it's pretty brutal
[18:50] supjeff: what are the particular painpoints for porting stylus to the front-end?
[18:50] Raynos: Sorella: it's great, you can add small chunks of LESS to el.style
[18:50] tjholowaychuk: supjeff not sure, i haven't even tried yet, maybe it wouldn't be too bad
[18:50] Raynos: then have a listening hook that polls .style on every element every 5ms
[18:50] Raynos: And get it to parse into CSS then add it back to el.style as CSS
[18:50] Raynos: It works great o/
[18:51] Raynos: </badjoke>
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[18:51] supjeff: lol
[18:51] Sorella: Raynos, I don't think it's good for any production site. As documentation and experimenting platform it can be, but then nothing stopping you from setting Stylus on the backend and polling it on your browser.
[18:51] Raynos: DrMcKay: dnode & socket.io -.-
[18:52] DrMcKay: Raynos: why not?
[18:52] Sorella: I actually did that when I introduced stylus and jade to my co-workers :3
[18:52] Raynos: Same purpose. Why?
[18:52] Raynos: Unless dnode also works on TCP (and not just ws)
[18:52] tjholowaychuk: Sorella yeah it's not difficult at all but i see why people would lean towards less since it's a bit more available
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[18:52] DrMcKay: Raynos: well, we're not using socket.io directly, but dnode requires it
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[18:52] Raynos: DrMcKay dnode is build on socket.io these days?
[18:52] DrMcKay: Raynos: but you're right, it shouldn't be there, I think
[18:53] AvianFlu: dnode uses tcp
[18:53] Raynos: tjholowaychuk: is stylus a strict superset?
[18:53] AvianFlu: to talk to browsers, it uses socket.io
[18:53] Raynos: AvianFlu is that tcp or ws ?
[18:53] tjholowaychuk: Raynos no
[18:53] `3rdEden: nope
[18:53] Raynos: That's why I like LESS
[18:53] `3rdEden: dnode has always been using socket.io
[18:53] Raynos: LESS is a strict superset
[18:53] tjholowaychuk: Raynos it is both
[18:53] tjholowaychuk: you can use regular css style as well
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[18:54] Raynos: then what do you mean "no" ?
[18:54] tjholowaychuk: feature-wise less is inferior to stylus and sass
[18:54] tjholowaychuk: because it's both
[18:54] tjholowaychuk: there's the indented style and the css style
[18:54] Raynos: a strict superset means any css is valid
[18:54] Sorella: Raynos, you can write valid CSS in Stylus.
[18:54] Sorella: well, not really if your CSS uses tabs.
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[18:55] Sorella: and such. But then, it's you having bad coding styles.
[18:55] Raynos: tabs?
[18:55] Raynos: tabs are bad?
[18:55] tjholowaychuk: if anything stylus can be more css-like since you can use transparent mixins
[18:55] tjholowaychuk: you can use tabs
[18:55] tjholowaychuk: just not spaces and tabs
[18:55] Sorella: Raynos, they are. Specially if you use them for alignment.
[18:55] Raynos: My main question was can i rename a css file to a styl file and it will just work
[18:55] Raynos: Oh if you mix spaces and tabs then your an idiot
[18:56] tjholowaychuk: unless it was written in a very odd style yes
[18:56] creationix: semicolons!
[18:56] Raynos: Didnt know that. Might look at styl
[18:56] creationix: 2-space indents!
[18:56] tjholowaychuk: boilerplate for example works fine and it looks absolutely retarded
[18:56] Sorella: no semicolons!
[18:56] DrMcKay: creationix++
[18:56] v8bot_:  DrMcKay has given a beer to creationix. creationix now has 2 beers.
[18:56] creationix: vim!
[18:56] Sorella: emacs!
[18:56] DrMcKay: creationix++
[18:56] v8bot_:  creationix is getting too many beers.  Don't let creationix get drunk!
[18:56] creationix: please don't get me drunk, I'm crazy sober
[18:56] DrMcKay: creationix += 1 << 32
[18:57] Belaf has joined the channel
[18:57] creationix: DrMcKay: trying to overflow it?
[18:57] mike5w3c_ has joined the channel
[18:57] DrMcKay: creationix: yup ;)
[18:57] creationix: well js numbers are floats 
[18:57] creationix: so good luck with that
[18:57] creationix: 53 bits precise when used as ints
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[18:58] DrMcKay: uh oh. and I was wondering...
[18:58] DrMcKay: ok, back to hackaton!
[18:59] ako: Math.pow(2,53)
[18:59] ako: 9007199254740992
[18:59] ako: that's usually enough ;)
[18:59] Sorella: It would be okay until 2 << 200-something, iirc.
[18:59] DrMcKay: .. Math.pow(2, 54)
[18:59] catb0t: 18014398509481984
[18:59] creationix: js: Math.pow(2,53) === (Math.pow(2,53) + 1)
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[19:00] ako: ye, it just stops there :)
[19:00] creationix: not stops, just looses precision
[19:00] creationix: +2 and they will be different
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[19:01] ako: ye
[19:01] Sorella: Math.pow(2, 1023) seems to be the last one before it gets to +Infinity.
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[19:02] ako: well, lets put it this way... that's the last value where you can use "doubles" as integers
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[19:04] blup: creationix: is there anything particular i should change in nvm to make it work with zsh?
[19:04] creationix: blup: it think it works
[19:04] creationix: people constantly send me zsh pull requests
[19:05] creationix: look through the pull request for people's zsk forks of nvm
[19:05] blup: creationix: must be my env then, thanks
[19:05] creationix: blup: don't be so sure.  it breaks all the time since I don't test on zsh
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[19:10] CIA-30: node: 03Igor Zinkovsky 07master * r79ce48d 10/ test/simple/test-fs-chmod.js : fix for test-fs-chmod - http://git.io/X7mykg
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[19:22] creationix: "Your Linode, creationix, has exceeded the notification threshold (5) for outbound traffic rate by averaging 45.53 Mb/s for the last 2 hours."
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[19:22] creationix: go node!
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[19:25] Raynos: creatonix++
[19:25] v8bot_:  Raynos has given a beer to creatonix. creatonix now has 1 beers.
[19:25] dilvie: Is that knockout traffic?
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[19:27] qbert: anyone on mac or linux, can you test this install http://thecodebase.com/bang/ ?  It's just a python script, you can see the source at https://github.com/qbert65536/bangbang
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[19:32] `3rdEden: at least they give you notifications of it creationix :)
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[19:36] quackquack: in Jade, how can i prevent a trailing newline in a block of text?
[19:37] quackquack: nvm, fixed
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[19:49] chapel: creationix: what site?
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[19:53] ding: Hi all, I'm having trouble initializing a custom module with an init() function such that it finishes before the exports are defined. Is there a hook for module setup or initialization somewhere?
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[19:54] qbert: ding code ?
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[19:54] creationix: chapel: it's because techcrunch is hot-linking to a m4v file on my creationix.com server
[19:54] creationix: they have an article about nko winners
[19:54] chapel: oh
[19:54] chapel: I was wondering
[19:54] chapel: fuck tc
[19:54] Guest94239: hello
[19:55] chapel: you should switch the file to porn or something
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[19:55] creationix: chapel: I doubt that would reduce the traffic
[19:55] rfay has joined the channel
[19:55] chapel: it wouldn't, but it would 'teach them'
[19:55] creationix: besides, eww
[19:55] creationix: I don't have any to put up
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[19:55] chapel: haha
[19:56] chapel: well you could always just have the url redirect to something else
[19:56] creationix: nah, it's free advertising
[19:56] chapel: ah, I see
[19:56] creationix: I'll do something when I get near my limit
[19:56] chapel: they aren't embedding it, just a link
[19:56] creationix: it's free for now
[19:56] Raynos: ding modules are blocking. Return an event emitter as module.exports and emit "init" or "loaded" when your done loading
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[19:56] chapel: couldn't you put it on youtube, and have the link just redirect to that youtube link
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[19:57] creationix: I'll probably do that once it gets close
[19:57] creationix: I've already got it on youtube
[19:57] chapel: ah cool
[19:57] ding: qbert, Raynos, something like: http://pastebin.com/33vfUtY4
[19:58] Raynos: Ehm what?
[19:58] Raynos: modules are blocking and are loaded synchronously. What do you need
[19:58] Raynos: You cant do async stuff and make require "wait"
[19:59] ding: I see
[20:00] ding: So I should do the setup and the perform the require call afterwards ?
[20:00] ding: * and then
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[20:02] Raynos: ...
[20:02] Raynos: You can require with a file url
[20:02] Raynos: all the code in the file url runs synchronously
[20:02] Raynos: you then go back to wherever you called require rom
[20:03] kiffness_ has joined the channel
[20:04] cconstantine_: Is there anyway to use the readline interface on the same stream?
[20:05] cconstantine_: use the same stream for input and output
[20:05] ding: Or, the code that does the require could wait for an "initialized" event to be emitted before the require is issued... Would that be a more robust way? I think that was your first suggestion...
[20:05] cconstantine_: like... a net.CreateServer socket
[20:05] context: kk any of you know a good place to buy/make mini-itx/micro-atx machines?
[20:06] epsas: context - newegg has deals -- the eeebox is nice as well
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[20:08] CoverSlide: 
ACTION is waiting for raspberry pi

[20:08] joshkehn: CoverSlide: Same here.
[20:08] joshkehn: I'm going to run a rack of those as servers.
[20:08] eventualbuddha has joined the channel
[20:09] context: epsas: yeah but they are ugly
[20:09] DrMcKay: context: just get a motherboard with bultin Atom
[20:09] DrMcKay: *built-in
[20:10] context: then i need a sexy looking case
[20:10] DrMcKay: context: but what do you need it for?
[20:10] DrMcKay: context: I've got one, I'm using it as a media server
[20:10] jtrudeau has joined the channel
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[20:11] context: drmckay: im gonna be building a mythtv backend and a xbmc frontend
[20:11] context: problem is most mini-itx cases look like fucking garbage
[20:11] DrMcKay: context: I've got something cool for you, then :)
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[20:13] context: want to see !
[20:13] context: i get my Drobo FS tomorrow
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[20:14] context: drmckay: links links links?
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[20:15] CoverSlide: ooh drobo?
[20:15] CoverSlide: how big?
[20:15] qbert: can I get someone to test a linux / mac install for me  ? http://thecodebase.com/bang/
[20:16] DrMcKay: context: Spire PowerCube SPM2101B
[20:16] simon1: is there a way to get the IP address? like app.address().port but instead app.address().ip does not work
[20:17] DrMcKay: context: I can't find English link, google it
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[20:18] DrMcKay: qbert: I will, give me few minutes
[20:19] qbert: sweet thanks :)
[20:19] CoverSlide: simon1: app.address().address
[20:19] CoverSlide: hmm that should be documented
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[20:23] context: coverslide: the code documents itself ;)
[20:23] JaKWaC: qbert: I get an error: http://pastie.org/2510345 - Mac OSX Darwin dhcp-10-20-21-132.xxxxx 10.8.0 Darwin Kernel Version 10.8.0: Tue Jun  7 16:33:36 PDT 2011; root:xnu-1504.15.3~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
[20:23] JaKWaC: but works for the most part.
[20:23] context: or open up interactive console
[20:23] context: app.address()
[20:24] Raynos: context: not really
[20:24] Raynos: Trying to find out what address returns in the nodejs source requires me to look through the C code.
[20:24] Raynos: It's completely non trivial to figure out the node.js lib -> src code mapping
[20:25] CoverSlide: yeah, the code really should show output values for its examples
[20:25] qbert: JaKWaC, ok cool, yeah I need to just use the 'open' command for macs
[20:25] qbert: JaKWaC, thx btw ;)
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[20:27] CoverSlide: s/code/docs
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[20:39] Raynos: What do people think of capitalizing objects used as prototypes with `Object.create`
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[20:39] Raynos: Are constructor functions currently capitalized to emphasize they are a "constructor" or that they are to be used with `new` ?
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[20:40] tbranyen: Raynos: lol we were just talking about that at Bocoup today
[20:40] tbranyen: Depends
[20:41] tjholowaychuk: new Depends
[20:41] Raynos: I personally do it because I dont use `new` anywhere in my code
[20:41] tbranyen: Like the Math object is captialized
[20:41] tbranyen: but its not invoked with new
[20:41] Raynos: So it's simply identifying that these objects are meant as prototype "blueprints" and should not be used or invoked directly
[20:41] qbert: I capitalize them
[20:42] tjholowaychuk: blueprints?
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[20:44] CoverSlide: pretty standard syntax, Capital letters for `classes` or `class`-like stuff
[20:45] jorenl_: How do I repond to HTTP requests and use Socket.IO on the same port with node?
[20:45] CoverSlide: ALL_CAPS for constants
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[20:45] CoverSlide: other variables, either underline_seperated or lowerCamelCased
[20:45] CoverSlide: depends on the user
[20:46] Nuck: lowerCamelCase is JS
[20:46] softdrink: var classInstance = new ClassConstructor();
[20:46] JSManiacs: jorenl_: I usually make an express server (which uses connect) 
[20:46] JSManiacs: var app = express.createServer();
[20:46] JSManiacs: then pass the instance of the server app to socket.io
[20:46] JSManiacs: var io = require('socket.io').listen(app);
[20:47] perezd_ has joined the channel
[20:47] Nuck: You can do that with a regular Node http too
[20:47] mjr_ has joined the channel
[20:47] jorenl_: JSManiacs: oh.and can I do it without express, just http.listen()? (Nuck?)
[20:47] Nuck: socket.io's site has an example
[20:47] Nuck: jorenl_: Aye, you pass the http thing to the listen
[20:47] ayo: http://nodejs.org/dist/v0.5.5/node.exe <- downloading... at 6kbs... wtf
[20:48] CoverSlide: as long as it emits 'upgrade' you can use it
[20:48] jorenl_: Nuck: cool. I'm trying to keep this thing very low resource usage. (although it might not matter at all)
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[20:48] ayo: aaand... the download died D:
[20:48] ayo: 3rd try :f
[20:48] Raynos: tjholowaychuk: I see objects used in prototype chain as a "blueprint"
[20:49] tjholowaychuk: Raynos that's what a prototype is
[20:49] Raynos: I also hate saying "classes" when I talk about javascript. I die a little inside
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[20:49] Raynos: So the best alternative word I could think of is "blueprint"
[20:49] Nuck: jorenl_: haha you probably shouldn't be using socket.io then
[20:49] ayo: "constructor thingies which are called with new"
[20:49] Nuck: Anyways, there's this thing, called premature optimization
[20:49] mykul_ has joined the channel
[20:50] tjholowaychuk: what ayo said
[20:50] jorenl_: Nuck: no way around socket.io for creating a live app right
[20:50] tjholowaychuk: constructors are constructors, prototypes are prototypes
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[20:50] jorenl_: & how is it resource intensive?
[20:50] Nuck: jorenl_: You can roll your own setup.
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[20:50] Nuck: And how is Express resource intensive?
[20:50] jorenl_: I don't know
[20:50] Nuck: I'd wager it's probably better than anything you use
[20:50] Nuck: tjholowaychuk put some mad work into it
[20:51] Raynos: Yes prototypes are prototypes, but I need to give a name to objects I only use as arguments to Object.create.
[20:51] creationix: you want bare-bones with little features, use raw connect or even raw stack
[20:51] tjholowaychuk: Raynos that's still a prototype
[20:51] creationix: but with stack you have to write your own middleware
[20:51] JaKWaC has joined the channel
[20:51] creationix: but express isn't really any more resource intensive than connect afaik
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[20:51] tjholowaychuk: nope
[20:51] Nuck: And Connect isn't all that heavy, either
[20:51] Raynos: Its a prototype when inserted into someones prototype chain. On it's own it's just an object.
[20:52] tjholowaychuk: not at all
[20:52] jorenl_: express then
[20:52] tjholowaychuk: Raynos it's still conceptually a prototype
[20:52] tjholowaychuk: js is just weird and has .prototype / constructors
[20:52] creationix: right, in a microbenchmark connect may add more overhead than something like stack, but on real works usage it's completely the same
[20:52] Raynos: only if you know its used in a prototype chain
[20:52] creationix: what matters is what api you want
[20:52] creationix: they are all really fast
[20:52] tjholowaychuk: haha yeah features vs less features
[20:52] creationix: now badly written middlewares can cause slowness quite easily
[20:53] fiq_ has joined the channel
[20:53] creationix: tjholowaychuk: you cleaned up the connect middlewares since I've worked on them I assume
[20:53] Nuck: In fact, Express has been shown on some benchmarks to be faster than a similar raw Node.js server
[20:53] jorenl_: I'm still using apache+php for static serving (because I need to use the facebook api and afaik there's no FB SDK for node?)
[20:53] creationix: Nuck: that's cause it caches
[20:53] `3rdEden: Nuck jorenl_ or you could just contribute to the project instead of rolling your own comet server ;)
[20:53] creationix: it's more code, but being smarter
[20:53] Raynos: What is stack?
[20:53] Nuck: creationix: And does it itself :D
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[20:54] tjholowaychuk: yeah more code doesnt mean it's slow
[20:54] tjholowaychuk: at all
[20:54] tjholowaychuk: look at v8
[20:54] creationix: stack is my new version of connect I use on phones https://github.com/creationix/stack
[20:54] creationix: it's super bare bones
[20:54] jorenl_: `3rdEden: I think I don't really understand what you're truing to say there. It's running on my own box fyi
[20:54] Nuck: creationix: Nice rhyme
[20:54] Raynos: creatonix: It's tiny
[20:54] creationix: right
[20:55] creationix: super barebones
[20:55] `3rdEden: jorenl_ i was refering to the socket.io conversation you had with Nuck
[20:55] creationix: barely more than what node provides
[20:55] kiffness has joined the channel
[20:55] creationix: tjholowaychuk: you should have been at nodeconf summer camp
[20:55] Nuck: You mean he isn't?
[20:56] creationix: tjholowaychuk: there was a session about express and connect and they had me running it
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[20:56] tjholowaychuk: creationix yeah that would have been cool
[20:56] Nuck: bahahaha
[20:56] Nuck: tjholowaychuk: Y U NO CONF
[20:56] creationix: it was pretty funny, I haven't made a real web app in over a year
[20:56] TooTallNate: i had a ticket but something came up :(
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[20:56] Nuck: creationix: Did you relearn express two days beforehand?
[20:56] creationix: nope
[20:57] creationix: I didn't know till 2 seconds beforehand I was leading the discussion
[20:57] Nuck: haha
[20:57] CoverSlide: on phones?
[20:57] Nuck: CROWDSOURCED
[20:57] creationix: CoverSlide: webos
[20:57] creationix: mostly the touchpad
[20:57] creationix: but some phones too
[20:57] Nuck: 
ACTION prays WebOS makes it onto other devices

[20:57] creationix: I think it will, it's looking good
[20:58] tjholowaychuk: 
ACTION prays android gets less sucky

[20:58] CoverSlide: and your phone has a public ip?
[20:58] creationix: CoverSlide: not usually
[20:58] jesusabdullah: webos looks pretty boss
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[20:58] creationix: CoverSlide: most carriers firewall when on WAN and wifi on lan is usually behind a nat
[20:58] jesusabdullah: 'specially when creationix is writing opengl demos for it
[20:58] Nuck: I think the concept of a $99 tablet was ingenious
[20:58] creationix: Nuck: I don't think that was planned
[20:58] Nuck: I think that HP should continue to market it
[20:58] CoverSlide: problem is it's a fire sale
[20:58] creationix: but it sure helped get rid of excess inventory
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[20:59] Nuck: creationix: And then they did another run
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[20:59] Nuck: That was what made me laugh
[20:59] Nuck: "Oh hey, we're losing $200 with each tablet, let's make MORE"
[20:59] creationix: not really another run, just assembling parts that were already bought
[20:59] Nuck: ah
[20:59] Dave_Stein: my coworker says he tried Node at home a couple of months ago and when an exception happened, it crashed the sever. Was he being crazy or was there some validity?
[20:59] CoverSlide: crashed the whole server?
[20:59] Nuck: Dave_Stein: Unless you handle the exception, yes
[20:59] CoverSlide: or just the running app?
[21:00] Dave_Stein: CoverSlide: the server, looks like Nuck says yes 
[21:00] Nuck: Eh
[21:00] Nuck: Not a whole server
[21:00] Nuck: Should just have the app die
[21:00] CoverSlide: probably a problem with his os
[21:00] Nuck: I'm actually tempted to buy a TouchPad for $99
[21:00] Dave_Stein: he says his http server died
[21:00] CoverSlide: i wish i had some extra money for a $99 touchpad
[21:00] ctide: i'd def buy a touchpad for $100
[21:01] ctide: barnes and noble fucked me on getting one :(
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[21:01] Dave_Stein: but you think that was cause his config is screwy?
[21:01] Nuck: Dave_Stein: In Node, tehre is no HTTP server on top of it
[21:01] Nuck: In front, yes
[21:01] Nuck: But it'll act like a reverse proxy
[21:01] CoverSlide: 99% of the time, an exception is user error
[21:01] Nuck: And that's all up to you
[21:01] jorenl__: Error installing express: npm ERR! Required: {"node":">= 0.4.1 < 0.5.0"} Actual:   {"npm":"1.0.22","node":"v0.5.3-pre"}
[21:01] jorenl__: Do I have to downgrade node? :/
[21:01] CoverSlide: ok maybe that statistic is a bit biased
[21:01] creationix: I'd buy 5 touchpads for 99 if only I could find them in stock somewhere
[21:02] AvianFlu: jorenl__, 0.5.x is unstable and it will break things
[21:02] creationix: they are *awesome* hacker devices
[21:02] JSManiacs: Dave_Stein: Keep in mind, node and the default http module is fairly low level on purpose.  If you want a more robust "server", then run an application stack on top of it
[21:02] AvianFlu: unless you're trying to do testing and commit to node core, use 0.4.11
[21:02] Nuck: creationix: Well, as a student, a cheap tablet sounds nice
[21:02] neilk_ has joined the channel
[21:02] Nuck: Not to mention it had Node up on there
[21:02] Raynos: jorenl__ stop using unstable
[21:02] tbranyen: creationix: really wish i could have gotten a touchpad :(
[21:02] jorenl__: AvianFlu: damned. Restart installation.
[21:02] Nuck: I might look for one in this next run
[21:03] Nuck: Or is that already done?
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[21:03] jorenl__: It's been running for a long time without crashing so that's positive I guess
[21:03] creationix: Nuck: I haven't heard anything, so I don't think it hit the shores yet
[21:03] ctide: it's not done
[21:03] Raynos: Dave_stein: the http server is the application. So any error crashes your application/server. In production you would use something that does proper error handling. There simply is no error handling by default
[21:03] Dave_Stein: JSManics: thanks for answer
[21:03] Nuck: Good, I hope they let the fervor die out
[21:04] Dave_Stein: I'm going to make coworker read all of this :)
[21:04] ctide: Nuck: https://twitter.com/#!/BrynaAtHP
[21:04] creationix: Nuck: probably a few weeks out still
[21:04] ctide: is the person to follow for info about it
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[21:04] Nuck: hehehe
[21:05] Nuck: I'll need to wait in line for hours I assume
[21:05] Nuck: But for a $99 piece of shit hardware running an epic OS, sure
[21:05] qbert: lol
[21:05] Nuck: I don't care how bad that hardware is
[21:05] Nuck: For $99, hell yes
[21:05] creationix: the hardware isn't bad
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[21:05] creationix: it's about the same as ipad2
[21:06] creationix: hp is losing a lot on it
[21:06] CoverSlide: I'd love to be able to put webOS on any device
[21:06] creationix: now there are $99 android tablets out there where the vendor actually makes money
[21:06] creationix: but I wouldn't buy them
[21:06] Nuck: creationix: The problem with HP is that they cut corners
[21:06] Nuck: It has the same specs, but lower quality
[21:06] Nuck: worse workmanship
[21:06] Nuck: So it gives out sooner
[21:06] JSManiacs: Nuck: For 99 I'd but 3, mount them on my walls and use them as fancy light switches
[21:07] Nuck: JSManiacs: Fuck yeah
[21:07] JSManiacs: just sayin
[21:07] creationix: node powered light switches
[21:07] ecin_ has joined the channel
[21:07] JSManiacs: yeah, hooked up to x-10 or home automation stuff
[21:07] creationix: mount an inductive charger behind it on the wall and make it removable
[21:07] kiffness_ has joined the channel
[21:07] JSManiacs: creationix: ha ha, that would be good
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[21:08] CoverSlide: hell yeah
[21:08] creationix: what's the cheapest node powered device?
[21:08] CoverSlide: put a bluez binding on node
[21:08] creationix: webos already had bluetooth from node
[21:08] JSManiacs: creationix: Nuck: wait wait… put it by doors and integrate it with a dead bolt system.  
[21:08] CoverSlide: and hook up everything via bluetooth
[21:08] tbranyen: CoverSlide: i started something like that
[21:08] CoverSlide: "oh the stove is on"
[21:08] tbranyen: CoverSlide: for when i was working on the wiimote bindings
[21:09] CoverSlide: 
ACTION opens a browser

[21:09] tbranyen: https://github.com/tbranyen/nodewii - but luckily libcwiid handled everything for me
[21:09] CoverSlide: {"stove": {"status": "off"}
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[21:09] creationix: hmm, wiimote + node + webgl = fun
[21:09] creationix: I've got node + webgl covered
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[21:09] DrMcKay: Nuck: coffeepot?
[21:09] cconstantine_: do all connected sockets created with net.createServer close themselves when node shuts down?
[21:10] CoverSlide: awesome
[21:10] CoverSlide: I wonder if you can bind this to node-ffi
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[21:10] Dave_Stein: thanks again for help. off i go
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[21:10] creationix: ffi would be way too slow for opengl
[21:11] creationix: the direct v8-c++ bindings are slow enough as it is
[21:11] JSManiacs: someone needs to convince one of the home automation companies to sponsor a node based / touch pad hackathon 
[21:11] tbranyen: yeah gotta do as much in native land as possible creationix 
[21:11] tbranyen: which makes sense
[21:11] CoverSlide: well yeah I wouldn't try it with opengl
[21:11] creationix: you need it for fast graphics
[21:11] creationix: or just use the webkit
[21:12] creationix: the canvas is pretty fast and the css3 isn't yerrible
[21:12] creationix: *terrible
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[21:12] creationix: I also have node-sdl if you want slower, but simpler graphics outside webkit
[21:13] CoverSlide: did you have to write shaders for bluelava?
[21:13] creationix: CoverSlide: yeah, but I didn't write them
[21:13] CoverSlide: oh
[21:13] creationix: I just used it to test my webgl implementation
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[21:13] creationix: http://www.chromeexperiments.com/detail/traveling-wavefronts/
[21:13] CoverSlide: 
ACTION doesn't want to write shaders

[21:14] creationix: shaders aren't that bad
[21:14] creationix: and wiked powerful
[21:14] creationix: *wicked
[21:14] creationix: 
ACTION can't spell today

[21:15] creationix: my favorite typo of the day is the title of my linode support ticket: "What happens when TechCrunch eats bandwitch"
[21:15] creationix: it was right before lunch and I must have been hungry
[21:15] CoverSlide: haha
[21:15] DrMcKay: lol
[21:15] kiffness has joined the channel
[21:15] DrMcKay: my favorite typo of all the times was bumblebee
[21:16] mjr_ has joined the channel
[21:17] CoverSlide: rm -rf /usr /lib/bumblebee/../.. 
[21:17] CoverSlide: haha
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[21:18] JSManiacs: CoverSlide: That one is priceless
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[21:24] Nuck: CoverSlide: How did you fuck that one up?
[21:26] CoverSlide: Nuck: https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/issues/123
[21:26] Nuck: hmmm gotta figure out new allottment numbers for my partitioning plans
[21:26] nibblebot has joined the channel
[21:27] DrMcKay: CoverSlide: haha :D
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[21:28] AvianFlu: http://lifeandcode.tumblr.com/post/9997896971/awwwww-yeah-baby
[21:28] Nuck: hahaha that typo is win
[21:29] DrMcKay: https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6f1dafc8beb84f2ac
[21:29] DrMcKay: AvianFlu: lol
[21:30] kiffness has joined the channel
[21:30] CoverSlide: i love how it's published by O'RLY
[21:30] TheJH: DrMcKay, yes, that one was funny :D
[21:31] Nuck: IM IN UR BODY, MAKIN UR DIVS
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[21:33] digitalsabre: HTML5:  Im in ur body, stealin' ur divs.
[21:33] Sembiance: Nuck: lulz
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[21:33] Nuck: LOLTEMPLATEZ
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[21:35] context: digitalsabre: scary.
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[21:35] aho: fwiw, 0.5.5 doesn't run on winxp. 0.5.4 and 0.5.3, however, do
[21:36] aho: ~couldn't find CreateSymbolicLinkA in kernel32.dll, it says
[21:37] aho: (0.5.5 works fine on vista/win7 of course)
[21:37] CoverSlide: Symlinks were added to Vista
[21:37] DrMcKay: aho: master has a patch for it, I believe
[21:37] kiffness has joined the channel
[21:37] aho: already wondered why it's only half in size :>
[21:38] aho: (compared to the previous builds, that is)
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[21:39] Sembiance: poor facebook. http://downrightnow.com/   wanted to log into turntable.fm for some good coding music, it relies on facebook login. guess I can't use turntable.fm rofl
[21:40] kiffness has joined the channel
[21:40] DrMcKay: Sembiance: works for me ;)
[21:40] CIA-30: libuv: 03Ben Noordhuis 07master * rca5346f 10/ (5 files in 2 dirs): unix: revert 98b9f58 and 431195c for now, corrupts memory - http://git.io/M2JpkA
[21:40] Wa has joined the channel
[21:40] Sembiance: DrMcKay: oh, now it's working :)
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[21:42] CIA-30: node: 03Ben Noordhuis 07master * r86b6bb3 10/ (4 files in 2 dirs): uv: upgrade to ca5346f - http://git.io/dxDa1Q
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[21:44] CIA-30: libuv: 03Bert Belder 07master * rc4317f6 10/ uv.gyp : Update uv.gyp after 98b9f58 got reverted - http://git.io/oDDdqQ
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[21:52] jorenl__: is 'export JOBS=2' important when building node?
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[21:53] DrMcKay: jorenl__: for compilation speed, yes
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[21:54] CIA-30: node: 03Bert Belder 07master * r11ee7c1 10/ (deps/uv/uv.gyp deps/uv/test/test-tcp-close.c): Upgrade libuv to c4317f639a - http://git.io/er0EdA
[21:54] jorenl__: DrMcKay: thanks.
[21:54] DrMcKay: jorenl__: generally, it should be equal to number of your processor cores
[21:54] jorenl__: right so that should have been 1. too late
[21:55] CIA-30: node: 03Bert Belder 07master * r4e63a7e 10/ (deps/uv/uv.gyp deps/uv/test/test-tcp-close.c): Upgrade libuv to c4317f639a - http://git.io/qIGhhA
[21:55] DrMcKay: jorenl__: that's not a big problem, really :)
[21:55] softdrink: heh sweet.  thanks to vim's "conceal" feature, every time 'function' appears in my js, it's displayed as ƒ, and whenever i type opt+f, it inserts 'function' which is then concealed :D
[21:56] tomgallacher has left the channel
[21:57] DrMcKay: softdrink: it's some plugin?
[21:57] devinus: has anybody been able to install 0.5.6 with nvm?
[21:58] softdrink: writing one.   based on this:  https://raw.github.com/tyok/js-mask/master/after/syntax/javascript.vim
[21:59] aperiodic has joined the channel
[22:00] Draggor: softdrink: holy crap that's sexy
[22:02] DrMcKay: softdrink: won't it delete my /usr?
[22:03] softdrink: i'm using Pathogen, so it's sitting in its own folder anyway
[22:03] DrMcKay: also, it goes into .vim/after or .vim/syntax/after?
[22:03] DrMcKay: I need Pathogen
[22:03] softdrink: .vim/after/syntax/
[22:03] DrMcKay: but I'm too lazy to install it
[22:03] softdrink: it's so worth it
[22:04] softdrink: here, steal my dotfiles and the script in bin/   here:  https://github.com/jocafa/Bindle
[22:04] DrMcKay: softdrink: thanks :)
[22:05] DrMcKay: softdrink: that script is fucking awesome
[22:05] DrMcKay: I don't know wy, I just like it
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[22:05] DrMcKay: softdrink: can you make it detect lambdas, for example?
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[22:06] softdrink: i'm sure you can with the "syntax match" line
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[22:07] softdrink: tempted to do something for "this"
[22:07] jorenl__: wow, who's done the webdesign on expressjs.com . It's impressive
[22:07] aperiodic: are there binaries for inspecting v8 profile logs available?
[22:07] aperiodic: the d8 shell won't build for mein the v8 bundled with the node source
[22:08] tjholowaychuk: jorenl__: haha, i did, it's not that great i plan on replacing it in the future
[22:08] tjholowaychuk: just needed something quickly at the tie
[22:08] tjholowaychuk: time*
[22:08] jorenl__: tjholowaychuck: But it's beautiful in its simplicity.
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[22:09] jorenl__: tjholowaychuk: congrats (and sorry for adding a c up there ;) )
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[22:11] mjijackson: does anyone know how to specify more than one "main" for an npm package?
[22:12] ShermanBoyd: I'm compiling node under ubuntu natty, the make install script throws everything into my home directory.  It's not available under my other users ... am I missing something?
[22:12] tjholowaychuk: mjijackson i dont think you can
[22:12] mjijackson: tjholowaychuk: I would like to be able to to "require('foo')" and "require('foo/bar')" for the same package "foo"
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[22:13] mjijackson: is that possible?
[22:13] mjijackson: without modifying $NODE_PATH...
[22:13] tjholowaychuk: not sure, we used to do namespaced requires like that quite a bit back in the day
[22:13] DrMcKay: !rainbow node.js
[22:13] jhbot:  1n2o3d4e5.6j7s
[22:13] tjholowaychuk: but that seems to have really gone away
[22:13] DrMcKay: TheJH++
[22:13] v8bot_:  DrMcKay has given a beer to TheJH. TheJH now has 2 beers.
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[22:13] ryah: please test http://nodejs.org/dist/v0.5.6/node-v0.5.6-rc3.tar.gz
[22:14] TheJH: :D
[22:15] DrMcKay: ryah: commit SHA for this?
[22:15] robi42 has joined the channel
[22:15] ryah: DrMcKay: commit isn't uploaded yet
[22:15] DrMcKay: ryah: k, thanks
[22:16] CIA-30: libuv: 03Ben Noordhuis 07master * rbd6066c 10/ src/unix/fs.c : unix: fix readdir cleanup assertion - http://git.io/iUWDvg
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[22:18] dmkbot: joyent/libuv: erickt: Subclass uv_getaddrinfo_t from uv_req_t. - https://github.com/joyent/libuv/issues/182
[22:19] DrMcKay: ah, yes, colors for this one.
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[22:24] CIA-30: node: 03Bert Belder 07master * rf9fa6ec 10/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Upgrade libuv to bd6066cb - http://git.io/etMQlw
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[22:29] snowinferno|21: Hi all, I have a function that I'm using as a constructor, it works fine the first time around but when I try to overwrite my object with a fresh version of the object, i get an error that undefined is not a function at CALL_NON_FUNCTION_AS_CONSTRUCTOR. If it matters, my constructor is in a separate module that I have importied via var myMod = require( './myMod.js' ); so the line looks something like socket['MyData'] = new myMod.MYDATA();
[22:30] CIA-30: node: 03Bert Belder 07master * r0a72ac3 10/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Upgrade libuv to bd6066cb - http://git.io/GlOqpg
[22:30] Raynos: Try `new (myMod.MYDATA)();`
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[22:32] snowinferno|21: ahh lovely, I just looked back at the first place that I use it and realized I was referencing the wrong module -_-
[22:32] snowinferno|21: thanks Raynos
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[22:39] DrMcKay: quick, make issues, my bot has colors!
[22:39] kon_: haha
[22:39] kon_: hm i would if i had any :P
[22:40] DrMcKay: kon_: "Logo is ugly!"
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[22:40] kon_: heh
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[22:49] jmoyers: hoorraaay! 25 merge conflicts!
[22:49] DrMcKay: jmoyers: it's always soooo fun!
[22:49] jmoyers: especially since im using svn!
[22:49] jmoyers: i love it!
[22:49] joshkehn: Oh jesus.
[22:49] jmoyers: i love not having git mergetool workflow, its rad
[22:49] DrMcKay: jmoyers: oh. I'm sorry.
[22:49] joshkehn: I feel so bad for you.
[22:49] softdrink: i need a good unicode character to represent "this"
[22:50] joshkehn: softdrink: Hmmm. How about `£` ?
[22:50] joshkehn: £.prop = 5;
[22:50] joshkehn: I like it.
[22:50] joshkehn: British folk might not though.
[22:50] bionic_apple: hi guys, how would i use the tty module to open up an interactive bash session in node? i'm having trouble using the file descriptors. my end goal is serving the 'terminal window' as a piece of text
[22:50] softdrink: hehe as a play on $?
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[22:51] joshkehn: I figure why not.
[22:51] joshkehn: Next we can use €.
[22:51] bnoordhuis: bionic_apple: have a look at the readline module
[22:52] softdrink: i do actually use π
[22:52] softdrink: π = Math.PI, ππ = Math.PI * 2;
[22:52] bionic_apple: bnoordhuis: would that give me the ability to pull the full contents of the tty pseudo-terminal though?
[22:52] joshkehn: Looks like £ doesn't work in the repl.
[22:52] bionic_apple: it just seems like tty was made for that
[22:52] bionic_apple: i dunno though, i just started with node yesterday
[22:52] softdrink: oh it's just for *display* purposes…
[22:52] bnoordhuis: bionic_apple: what do you mean with full content?
[22:52] bnoordhuis: bionic_apple: are you looking for ncurses bindings?
[22:53] joshkehn: ¢ ?
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[22:53] bionic_apple: bnoordhuis: no, i mean like grabbing all the text, col x row, of a pseudoterminal that is a size of [col x row]
[22:53] softdrink: ∈  'element of'
[22:53] bionic_apple: bnoordhuis: like taking a snapshot of it
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[22:55] softdrink: ⨿  'amalgamation'
[22:55] bnoordhuis: bionic_apple: i don't think there's anything for that right now
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[22:56] bionic_apple: bnoordhuis: okay, thanks, so what purpose does the 'tty' module serve, then?
[22:57] bnoordhuis: bionic_apple: it's to read keystrokes from a tty and do line editing
[22:57] Raynos: console.warn blocks right?
[22:57] Raynos: console.log is async & console.error is sync
[22:57] Raynos: I think warn is sync too
[22:57] bionic_apple: bnoordhuis: oooh, thank you
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[22:58] bnoordhuis: Raynos: console.error == console.warn :)
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[23:03] Raynos: bnoordhuis o/
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[23:34] CIA-30: node: 03Bert Belder 07master * rb49bec5 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Bump version to 0.5.6 - http://git.io/LK52qw
[23:34] bradleyg: hey! i've got a problem... http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7368232/node-js-youtube-api-upload
[23:34] bradleyg: do you think i am encoding post_data incorrectly?
[23:35] bradleyg: show i be putting that into a buffer?
[23:35] tjholowaychuk: bradleyg i had issues with the youtube api as well
[23:35] felixge has joined the channel
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[23:35] tjholowaychuk: but first of all you should use CRLF
[23:36] bradleymeck: anyone thinking of making a nice ldap management server w/ ldapjs?
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[23:39] CIA-30: node: 03Bert Belder 07master * r0be4812 10/ src/node_version.h : Now working on v0.5.7 - http://git.io/KCUOtA
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[23:45] CIA-30: libuv: 03Ben Noordhuis 07master * r52eca75 10/ include/uv-private/uv-unix.h : unix: uv_pipe_t should not depend on UV_TCP_PRIVATE_FIELDS - http://git.io/Nfv2pA
[23:45] CIA-30: libuv: 03Ben Noordhuis 07master * reb987bc 10/ (4 files): 
[23:45] CIA-30: libuv: unix: deduplicate stream init logic
[23:45] CIA-30: libuv: Move shared init logic into uv__stream_init(). - http://git.io/edDlKg
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[23:54] JSprob: hi, could somebody please help me with a javascript noob question? :D
[23:54] JSprob: document.getElementById('stephie').style.marginLeft = format;
[23:54] JSprob: the browser doesnt catch this value
[23:55] JSprob: format = "10px"
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[23:59] abjorn: might more be a question for ##javascript