[00:01] Nuck: I love how Mongo's docs list "Problems requiring SQL." as a case it's less suited for.
[00:03] jhbot has joined the channel
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[00:10] jhurliman: can anyone give me pointers on how to capture and handle "socket hang up" errors in my app? i'm fetching some webpages with a node app and i sometimes get these uncaught exceptions: https://gist.github.com/1102022
[00:11] jhurliman: but looking at that stack trace, i have no idea where in my code i should be inserting a try/catch
[00:11] TheJH: !git context joyent/node src/http.js 1545
[00:11] jhbot: error, showBlob() failed
[00:12] TheJH: !git context joyent/node lib/http.js 1545
[00:12] jhbot: 1544 
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[00:12] jhbot: 1545     self._state = 'connected';
[00:12] jhbot: 1546 
[00:12] TheJH: jhurliman, could you gist your code?
[00:12] jhurliman: TheJH, unfortunately it's a large codebase that i haven't been able to boil down to a small repro yet. i'm using the request library
[00:13] TheJH: jhurliman, which node version are you using?
[00:13] jhurliman: right now i'm mostly curious on how to interpret that stack trace. all of the files/methods in the stack trace are internal to node, suggesting that there is no way to catch that error?
[00:13] jhurliman: 0.4.9
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[00:14] TheJH: jhurliman, you can catch the error by adding an error handler to a request or so
[00:14] jhurliman: ahh, right
[00:15] jhurliman: thank you. i must be making an http request somewhere without attaching an error handler, so it falls back to throwing an exception
[00:15] TheJH: jhurliman, yes. but I think that mikeals request does that for you
[00:15] clockwize: should I connect to mongodb, then start a web server and use it in requests or open a connection per request?
[00:16] TheJH: jhurliman, at least if you always give it a callback
[00:16] jhurliman: i wish that branch of node that could show stack traces across async callbacks was functional
[00:16] TheJH: jhurliman, yes, that would be cool
[00:17] jhurliman: right now all of the errors i get from node have a stack trace of two or three lines showing internal node code. "something went wrong somewhere in your 20,000 lines of code. go find it!"
[00:17] tomtomaso has joined the channel
[00:17] plainas: is tehre any way to run a simple json datastore on node in the same fashion as couchdb (for example)
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[00:23] TheJH: plainas, a simple in-memory key-value store?
[00:24] caiges has joined the channel
[00:24] jhurliman: looks like there have been a lot of improvements to the request library very recently though, i should upgrade
[00:25] plainas: well... I would need to save the data externaly in some way
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[00:25] TheJH: plainas, why don't you take a couchdb then?
[00:27] plainas: I might, just asking if node has similar capabilities, I guess the answer to your question is: for neatness/tidyness reasons
[00:28] TheJH: plainas, I don't think that there's a JS-only persistent storage for node
[00:28] [[zz]] has joined the channel
[00:29] mscdex: there is
[00:29] mscdex: at least a few
[00:30] mscdex: kv stores
[00:30] rhdoenges has joined the channel
[00:31] TheJH: mscdex, persistent ones?
[00:31] mscdex: sure
[00:31] mnaser: redis with node?
[00:33] mscdex: nstore is one of them that i can think of off the top of my head
[00:33] mscdex: you might find others on the wiki modules page or on npm
[00:34] TheJH: !npm search persistant
[00:34] jhbot: no results
[00:34] xerox: red is does persistence on disk indeed
[00:34] mscdex: !npm search nstore
[00:34] jhbot: no results
[00:34] mscdex: ha
[00:34] TheJH: hmm...
[00:34] mscdex: nstore is on npm though
[00:35] escii: http://mrdoob.com/projects/multiuserpad/   does anyone know if the server code of this project is open, or someone already did clone it?
[00:36] jhbot has joined the channel
[00:36] TheJH: !npm search nstore
[00:36] jhbot: package keys: Unified api for node key/value stores
[00:36] jhbot: package nstore-query: Query Addon for nStore
[00:36] jhbot: package nstore-cache: Cache addon for nStore
[00:36] jhbot: package nstore: nStore is a simple, in-process key/value database for node.js.
[00:36] TheJH: weird...
[00:36] mscdex: :)
[00:36] Xeon06_ has joined the channel
[00:39] rhdoenges: !npm search persistent
[00:39] jhbot: no results
[00:39] mnaser: !npm search redis
[00:39] jhbot: packages (short format, truncated): redis-client, connect-session-redis-store, express-session-redis, keys, rapid, redisql, node-redis-mapper, redis-session-store, redis-queue, redis-node, resque, n-pubsub, ron, node-redis-monitor, mmmodel, backbone-redis, redis_objects, redisify, nedis, cluster-log
[00:40] skm has joined the channel
[00:40] TheJH: aaaah, now I know why it didn't find anything earlier. after 5 minutes, it won't work anymore
[00:40] cpetzold has joined the channel
[00:40] TheJH: fixing...
[00:40] towski has joined the channel
[00:41] mnaser: funny bug
[00:41] mnaser: :p
[00:41] clockwize: omg.. daughters baby monitor just started beeping...normally wouldn't worry and go and check but she's sick and coughing/breathing raspy so I legged it up the stairs faster than I've ever moved
[00:41] clockwize: but she'd just squished herself in to the corner of the bed where the motion pad thing doesn't pick up
[00:42] jhbot has joined the channel
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[00:43] plainas: nstore looks beautifully simple :) I like it
[00:44] TheJH: mnaser, I have a cache of all npm data. cache freshness time is 5 minutes after fetching it. when it isn't fresh anymore, I fetch the updates of the npm database. guess what I saved as the whole db :/
[00:44] plainas: clockwize, I have am looking for a monitor for my baby daugther too :) Sorry the OT all
[00:44] clockwize: yeah. sorry for OT :) my heart rate still hasn't slowed though :p
[00:45] clockwize: plainas: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0013FW5G8/ref=asc_df_B0013FW5G83728270?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22206&creativeASIN=B0013FW5G8 < this is what I have
[00:45] amerine has joined the channel
[00:45] mnaser: the updates only aka 1-2 packages, TheJH? :p
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[00:46] TheJH: mnaser, that's probably the upper limit, usually 0
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[00:49] plainas: clockwize,interesting... I thought video was the most high-tech out there and I was thinking of building my own with asorted electronics.
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[00:52] mnaser: http://pastie.org/2261562 -- I find this code bad.. I know it could be cleaner, I have a lot of the "error != null" checks .. how would I refactor, i'm getting frustrated writing this code because I know it's not good
[00:52] jhbot has joined the channel
[00:53] kaww: !npm search redis
[00:53] jhbot: packages (short format, truncated): redis-client, connect-session-redis-store, express-session-redis, jobs, keys, rapid, redisql, node-redis-mapper, redis-session-store, redis-queue, redis-node, resque, n-pubsub, ron, node-redis-monitor, mmmodel, shorten, backbone-redis, redis_objects, redisify
[00:54] TheJH: mnaser, https://gist.github.com/7e2e8a8e6b4650653ac2
[00:55] TheJH: mnaser, better that way?
[00:55] rachelderp has joined the channel
[00:55] mscdex_: mnaser: just use if error
[00:55] mscdex_: it's a little shorter :p
[00:55] mnaser: yeah, that looks a lot cleaner and nicer, more tolerable
[00:56] TheJH: mscdex_, one char less
[00:56] mscdex: one char?
[00:56] TheJH: mscdex, "error?" vs "error"
[00:56] mnaser: I like the error? because I do tons of RoR dev
[00:57] mscdex: is that how you do that in coffeescript or something, with the question mark if you have no comparison operator?
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[00:57] TheJH: !@mscdex coffee compile error?
[00:57] jhbot: mscdex, typeof error !== "undefined" && error !== null;
[00:58] mscdex: eh?
[00:58] TheJH: mscdex, it also checks whether "error" even exists
[00:58] mscdex: i don't use coffeescript, so i have no clue
[00:58] rachelderp: Are there any examples of node servers/clients using diffie hellman crypto?
[00:59] mnaser: mscdex what jhbot outputted is the JS equivilant or writing "error?"
[00:59] hippich has joined the channel
[00:59] hippich has joined the channel
[00:59] mnaser: !npm search diffie
[00:59] jhbot: no results
[00:59] mscdex: ah
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[01:00] rachelderp: mnaser: diffie hellman functions are included in node's crypto api
[01:00] rachelderp: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.5.1/api/crypto.html
[01:00] rachelderp: but I'd like to find an example to work with
[01:00] mnaser: ahhh i see
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[01:01] mscdex: rachelderp: well, you could always send a message to the committer of that functionality
[01:02] mscdex: rachelderp: https://github.com/havard
[01:02] mscdex: rachelderp: i think he uses it in node-openid
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[01:02] rachelderp: Thanks for the tip
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[01:04] xerox_: what's a reliable way to send emails from a node program
[01:04] xerox_: that doesn't require one to install sendmail x_x
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[01:04] TheJH: !npm search smtp
[01:04] jhbot: packages (short format): simplesmtp, node_hash, mailer-fixed, smtpclient, smtpc, mail, smtp, mailer, emailjs, kyatchi, Haraka
[01:06] xerox: so you suggest raw to an smtp
[01:06] rhdoenges: smtp's what sendmail uses
[01:06] mscdex: those aren't all smtp clients though
[01:07] TheJH: xerox, maybe this one: emailjs: send text/html emails and attachments from node.js to any smtp server
[01:07] TheJH: if you want high-level
[01:07] rhdoenges: ooh
[01:07] rhdoenges: that is probably what you want
[01:07] mscdex: xerox: i'd suggest node-mail or emailjs
[01:08] mscdex: er i guess it's just "mail" for node-mail in npm
[01:08] xerox: 
ACTION looks !

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[01:11] kaww: !npm search mysql
[01:11] jhbot: packages (short format): noblerecord, mysql, mysql-libmysqlclient, mysql-client, orm, mysql-pool, mysql-oil, node-dbi, mysql-helper, mysql-native-prerelease, sequelize, autodafe, mysql-native, moose, oursql, db-mysql, mysql-simple, connect-mysql-session
[01:11] TheJH: kaww, tip: if you do it in query, it will display up to 20 in long format (with description)
[01:12] hybsch has joined the channel
[01:12] chapel: !npm search gist
[01:12] jhbot: packages (short format): ngist, massagist, gist, redis-completer, hanging_gardens_registry, node-gist, gista
[01:13] tmzt_: !npm search handler
[01:13] jhbot: packages (short format): mongrel2, xmpp-muc, connect-assetmanager-handlers, node-handlersocket, vhost, jus-config, json-line-protocol, stream-handler, node-proxy, m2node, combohandler, groundcrew, contracts, addTimeout
[01:13] tmzt_: !npm info node-handlersocket
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[01:13] rachelderp: mscdex: Looked at the source for node-openid, but it doesn't seem to use the crypto diffie hellman functions
[01:14] rachelderp: https://github.com/havard/node-openid/blob/master/openid.js
[01:14] TheJH: tmzt_, no npm info, only npm owner
[01:14] kaww: TheJH: cool
[01:14] bradwright has joined the channel
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[01:15] chapel: !npm search geo
[01:15] jhbot: packages (short format): geohash, geoutils, node-geocode, simplegeo, geo, simplegeo-thrift, geonode, simplegeo-client, modestmaps, connect-geoip, ngeohash, geo-distance, pigeons, maptail, geocoder, geoip
[01:16] ajsie has joined the channel
[01:16] mnaser: i know this is sily and kinda JS related, but how can I call a function within the same module? calling it with no prefix or with this. -- both fail
[01:16] mscdex: rachelderp: ah ok, i guess he hasn't gotten around to converting his code to use it then, i was just going based on a blog post he wrote: http://ox.no/posts/diffie-hellman-support-in-node-js
[01:17] mnaser: http://pastie.org/2261638
[01:17] tmzt_: chapel: can I get a github url for a package
[01:17] chapel: ?
[01:17] tmzt_: with jhbot
[01:17] mscdex: lol
[01:18] mscdex: tmzt_: jhbot is TheJH's creation iirc
[01:18] TheJH: tmzt_, no :)
[01:18] TheJH: !remember git-search https://github.com/search?q=$&type=Everything&repo=&langOverride=&start_value=1
[01:18] jhbot: saved definition of 'git-search'
[01:19] TheJH: !@tmzt_ mem git-search npm
[01:19] jhbot: tmzt_, https://github.com/search?q=npm&type=Everything&repo=&langOverride=&start_value=1
[01:19] jhurliman: TheJH, following up from earlier, i updated to the latest version of request (2.0.1) and those crashes went away
[01:19] FireFly|n900: !mem git-search foo bar
[01:19] jhbot: https://github.com/search?q=foo&type=Everything&repo=&langOverride=&start_value=1
[01:19] mscdex: mnaser: as long as it has a name it should be fine, i dunno if cs does any magic or not though
[01:19] TheJH: tmzt_, not exactly a module search, but...
[01:20] TheJH: jhurliman, good
[01:20] chapel: heh tmzt_
[01:20] chapel: :P
[01:20] mnaser: mscdex: coffee-scrript translates it to this http://pastie.org/2261652
[01:21] mscdex: oh, it's part of an object
[01:21] mnaser: yeah
[01:21] TheJH: mnaser, nameOfTheObject.create_target or so
[01:22] mnaser: yes but my problem is that, create_target needs iqn_name
[01:22] mnaser: and i cant figure how to properly call another method
[01:22] TheJH: mnaser, call nameOfTheObject.iqn_name in create_target
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[01:23] mnaser: but then that would mean i'd have to call the object with the intiial arguments in order to have that done
[01:24] mnaser: i feel like i'm really off in this.  what i want is an object that i create with initial values, then i can manipulate it, where it has internal/external functions
[01:24] TheJH: mnaser, I don't quite understand you, but do you realize that the functions will only be called after the obejct is complete in your example?
[01:24] luke` has joined the channel
[01:24] TheJH: *object
[01:25] mscdex: mnaser: like a class or what?
[01:25] mnaser: i want to make my object a "model"
[01:25] TheJH: mnaser, coffeescript also has classes
[01:25] mnaser: i create it once using initial variables, and then it has methods and attributes
[01:25] Nuck: mnaser: prototype.
[01:26] Nuck: USe dem.
[01:26] mscdex: yeah
[01:26] luke`_ has joined the channel
[01:26] mnaser: actually i just saw the coffeescript classes
[01:26] TheJH: mnaser, dou you want multiple instances of a class, class methods and instance properties?
[01:27] mnaser: exactly what I want, TheJH.
[01:27] TheJH: mnaser, ah, ok
[01:27] mnaser: classes are perfect
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[01:28] mscdex: function Foo() { this.instanceFn = function(){}; } Foo.prototype.classFn1 = function() { this.classFn2(); }; Foo.prototype.classFn2 = function() {};
[01:28] mscdex: something like that
[01:28] FireFly|n900: coffeescript classes are just a thin wrapper over the prototype OOP model in JS though. If you'd like to know how it actually works I suggest learning about JS OOP as well
[01:28] mnaser: i've done tons of ruby/python oop but javascript seems pretty differnet..
[01:29] mscdex: you can pass in instance specific values into the constructor and save them as instance variables
[01:29] Nuck: Yeah, prototypes aren't classes lol
[01:29] mscdex: Nuck: we know, but it gives a similar effect
[01:30] mscdex: i stopped quoting the term long ago ;-)
[01:30] FireFly|n900: mnaser, yeah, most languages utilise classical OOP
[01:31] FireFly|n900: JavaScript is one of a few prototypical languages
[01:31] FireFly|n900: I suggest reading eloquentjavascript.com btw, I think there's a chapter on how OOP works in JS
[01:32] mnaser: will do so
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[01:37] mscdex: there's also: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Core_JavaScript_1.5_Guide
[01:37] polotek: Is there any documentation for require.extensions?
[01:37] Nuck: FireFly|n900: The domain is dead, by the looks of it
[01:38] polotek: I expected it in the Module docs, but no good
[01:38] TheJH: good night, guys
[01:38] markbao_ has joined the channel
[01:38] TheJH: or whatever it is in your timezone
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[01:40] markbao_: mongodb native driver: how should I store an ObjectId that I got back from a row?
[01:40] mscdex: polotek: not that i can see, except the examples here: https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/lib/module.js#L456
[01:40] markbao_: currently, I'm getting: http://winning.markbao.com/8h0Z
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[01:41] Nuck: markbao_: store it?
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[01:41] markbao_: Nuck: well, to be most efficient, I should be storing it as an ObjectId, right?
[01:42] markbao_: I'm not sure if that's what it is doing here
[01:42] Nuck: markbao_: It should be stored for you :confused:
[01:42] Nuck: 
ACTION uses deviantART emotes, just ignore them :P

[01:42] markbao_: sorry - I'm not being clear
[01:42] markbao_: so I'm pulling down an ObjectId from a previous query
[01:42] markbao_: and storing it inside another document as a reference
[01:42] hippich has joined the channel
[01:43] Nuck: markbao_: OOOOOOOOH!
[01:44] Nuck: That's actually a good question, perhaps you can require the ObjectId function from the mongo driver and then use it?
[01:45] Nuck: markbao_: Try `require('mongodb').ObjectID, I'm sure it's there somewhere
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[01:48] markbao_: hmm, not in there
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[01:51] tmzt_: it's under BSON
[01:52] markbao_: thanks tmzt_
[01:52] markbao_: I was able to get it working using require('mongodb').BSONPure.ObjectID('4e2b7488e7912b0000000001')
[01:54] markbao_: however
[01:54] markbao_: it seems like it's just spitting out the same thing
[01:54] Hurreman: 
ACTION just tried to comment out his comments instead of removing them. Lack of sleep or lack of (or too much?) caffeine?

[01:56] pHcF has joined the channel
[01:56] pHcF: i've created a telnet server using net.createServer.. the server works fine on mac classic telnet client but on windows default client every char typed it sends to the server… how to avoid that?
[01:56] hassox has joined the channel
[01:56] pHcF: to send all the characters together to the server
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[01:59] Nuck: pHcF: Queue them up, append to string, then when the server gets a newline, treat it as a recieved message?
[01:59] pHcF: will it work on mac?
[02:00] Nuck: Dunno
[02:00] Nuck: Test?
[02:00] pHcF: yep
[02:00] pHcF: :P
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[02:02] markbao_:  /facepalm
[02:02] markbao_: it stores it as ObjectID natively
[02:03] markbao_: FFFFFFFUUUUUU
[02:03] markbao_: there goes 1 hour down the drain
[02:04] Nuck: markbao_: lol there's so many times I wish there were a #mongodb chat.
[02:04] Nuck: It'd make my life so much easier
[02:04] markbao_: Nuck: I think there is...
[02:04] markbao_: just not node specific/
[02:04] Nuck: markbao_: I'm /list mongo-ing right now
[02:04] markbao_:  /join #mongodb
[02:04] Nuck: Nope
[02:04] markbao_: :P
[02:05] Nuck: Damnit they hid the room
[02:05] markbao_: stealth mode
[02:05] Nuck: bitches
[02:05] Nuck: 
ACTION gets grumpy

[02:05] Nuck: markbao_: Never thought to /join before lol
[02:05] markbao_: Nuck: lol you always gotta try and /join
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[02:08] Nuck: markbao_: I forgot stealth mode existed, and I didn't think anyone used it on a major chatroom.
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[02:11] mnaser: It looks like Dnode doesn't send the object type and prototype?
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[02:11] mnaser: so the object that's  sent is a "testclass" and what i get back is a "object" and it's prototypes are gone
[02:11] rachelderp: Are there any drawbacks to using HTTPS requests in node to send encrypted information, versus writing my own encryption using crypto.diffieHellman functions?
[02:12] Aria: Yeah, dnode just serializes the object itself.
[02:12] mnaser: So if I want to send "classes" across, what would I have to do?
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[02:12] mnaser: or if I wanted to manipulate them rather
[02:12] jesusabdullah: I'm not sure that's something dnode does
[02:12] jesusabdullah: I'd hate to say "rethink the problem"
[02:13] jesusabdullah: I really do
[02:13] mnaser: >_<
[02:13] Nuck: jesusabdullah: But you're saying it anyways?
[02:13] jesusabdullah: but I think you can find a way to do this with an instantiated object
[02:13] jesusabdullah: Nuck: Yeah >_<
[02:13] jesusabdullah: mnaser: Can you expose a getter/setter or something?
[02:13] jesusabdullah: SubStack might have some advice if he's not too busy
[02:13] tuhoojabotti: ffuuu
[02:14] Nuck: jesusabdullah: Does he ever NOT have advice?
[02:14] mnaser: what I was doing was: "volume = new Volume zpool, item" and "callback null, volume"
[02:14] Nuck: ewww CS
[02:14] jesusabdullah: Nuck: sometimes!
[02:14] mnaser: well you highlighted him so if he ever has an answer I think he'll drop by I guess
[02:14] jesusabdullah: volume = new Volume(zpool, item) ?
[02:14] jesusabdullah: and cb(null, volume) ?
[02:15] mnaser: yes
[02:15] tuhoojabotti: Hueg thunderstorm!
[02:15] jesusabdullah: and you want to access volume's prototype remotely?
[02:15] Nuck: jesusabdullah: If he doesn't have advice, then there's something wrong with the topic.
[02:15] polotek: mnaser: why can't you load your prototype definitions on the other side?
[02:15] polotek: do you not control that environment as well?
[02:15] tuhoojabotti: It's  5 am ffs
[02:15] jesusabdullah: Nuck: He just looks busy is all
[02:15] jesusabdullah: hacking the shit out of that Gibson!
[02:16] jesusabdullah: Meanwhile, I'm drawing the Wonder Twins
[02:16] Nuck: jesusabdullah: Doesn't mean he doesn't have advice, just means he's too busy to give it ;)
[02:16] mnaser: I do, I could set it up on the other side, but then i'd have logic over two applications
[02:16] Nuck: jesusabdullah: Wonder Twins?
[02:16] mnaser: and yes jesusabdullah
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[02:17] mnaser: basically i want to get an "object" and then once I have that object, I can do things with it, like object.update / object.resize / etc
[02:17] polotek: mnaser: if you could send your classes with all their functionality then you'd have that anyway
[02:17] mnaser: I could just make a bunch of functions like resizevolume(...) -- but i think it'd be so much cleaner
[02:18] mnaser: polotek: part of the other reason is that ill be using dnode-ruby to work with the results
[02:18] polotek: whether you load the code on both sides or send it across the wire, you're going to have to instantiate the functions twice
[02:18] mnaser: so its hard to have the prototypes there
[02:18] Nuck: mnaser: ... Ruby?
[02:18] Nuck: 
ACTION vomits

[02:19] jesusabdullah: Pffsht, ruby's not THAT bad
[02:19] mnaser: Nuck: seriously, every comment you do is "ewww ruby" "ewww coffeescript" -- it'd be a lot more useful if there was constructive-ness in what you say
[02:19] polotek: you could serialize all your known prototypes and send those over
[02:19] jesusabdullah: it's just got a boring ecosystem is all!
[02:19] Nuck: jesusabdullah: It is for me.
[02:19] polotek: you could toString your functions and send those as well
[02:19] polotek: but you'd lose closures
[02:19] jesusabdullah: Nuck: How do you feel about python?
[02:19] polotek: and probably open security holes :)
[02:19] jesusabdullah: :v
[02:19] mnaser: ruby is a really good language.  rails is really solid framework.
[02:19] Nuck: mnaser: There's two things I hate more than anything else in the programming world:  Ruby and CoffeeScript.
[02:19] jesusabdullah: rails lives up to its name
[02:19] jesusabdullah: fbofw
[02:19] Nuck: jesusabdullah: It's powerful, but I'm not a fan of the syntax.
[02:20] mnaser: polotek: what would you do if it was your call?
[02:20] Nuck: jesusabdullah: As for RAILS... Rails is just a piece of shit.
[02:20] Nuck: It really does not scale well.
[02:20] mnaser: Nuck: im sorry
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[02:20] jesusabdullah: I call it RAYLEZZ cause that's more gangster
[02:20] mnaser: lol
[02:20] Nuck: IT used to be all "RAILS SCALES" then everybody realized it really DOESN'T scale.
[02:20] mnaser: oh god
[02:20] jesusabdullah: RAILS SCALES KINDA
[02:20] Aria: Heh. It's a classic frontend language. It scales as well as any of 'em.
[02:20] jshaw has joined the channel
[02:20] Nuck: jesusabdullah: Until a certain point
[02:21] rachelderp: RAILS SCALES (down)
[02:21] Prometheus: wait
[02:21] Nuck: Then it jsut fucks itself
[02:21] Aria: "Keep your requests from talking to each other and add more web front ends."
[02:21] Prometheus: did someone call rails a solid framework?
[02:21] Nuck: scales to like 50 users
[02:21] mnaser: what else would you use to create an online app with an ORM/etc
[02:21] jesusabdullah: Your MOM scales to 50 users >:o
[02:21] mnaser: seriously, it's the best choice. imho.
[02:21] jesusabdullah: mnaser: node.js?
[02:21] Nuck: mnaser: Uh, Node.js
[02:21] Prometheus: lol.
[02:21] jesusabdullah: haha
[02:21] Prometheus: :/
[02:21] Nuck: Seriously
[02:21] Nuck: NODE scales.
[02:21] AAA_awright: LOL
[02:21] mnaser: and how the hell are you going to write an entire application
[02:21] Nuck: And it does so damn well.
[02:22] Nuck: mnaser: Easily?
[02:22] mnaser: alright then
[02:22] Nuck: mnaser: /me points to LearnBoost.
[02:22] Prometheus: mnaser: you can't be serious
[02:22] Nuck: 'nuff said.
[02:22] Prometheus: did you come from PHP to ruby?
[02:22] mnaser: to each his own guys, i just find node.js might drive you nuts on lareg projects
[02:22] Prometheus: or just picked up ruby as your first language?
[02:22] Prometheus: just out of curiosity
[02:22] jesusabdullah: The one thing I'll point out is that apparently sqlite and node don't play well together
[02:22] Prometheus: because you seem to be giving rails a lot of credit there
[02:22] Nuck: mnaser: I'm using Node.js to build a whole fucking art community.
[02:22] AvianFlu: fuck SQL, seriously
[02:22] AAA_awright: Yeah you want to abvoid that combo
[02:22] jesusabdullah: also, that node doesn't have a "heavyweight" framework a la RAYLEZ or the jangoes
[02:22] Nuck: Can't get much bigger than that.
[02:22] mnaser: jeez
[02:23] mnaser: so drop sql
[02:23] mnaser: drop rails
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[02:23] AAA_awright: Well what's wrong with SQL?
[02:23] mnaser: write javascript
[02:23] mnaser: ???
[02:23] mnaser: profit
[02:23] Nuck: mnaser: Node.js + MongoDB.
[02:23] AAA_awright: It's great for running statistics and such
[02:23] Nuck: THEN profit.
[02:23] AvianFlu: you're in #Node.js! we did! lol
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[02:23] jesusabdullah: Well, sql isn't that bad, it just fits a particular problem set
[02:23] Nuck: jesusabdullah: We have Express lol
[02:23] jesusabdullah: and mongo/redis/whatever-the-fuck might fit your needs better
[02:23] Nuck: jesusabdullah: A VERY particular set of problems.
[02:23] polotek: express isn't nearly as feature rich as rails
[02:23] polotek: which is a good thing
[02:23] Nuck: Which Mongo tends to fit just fine too.
[02:23] jesusabdullah: Nuck: express is more comparable to sinatra
[02:23] Nuck: jesusabdullah: Ah true
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[02:24] mnaser: anyways
[02:24] Nuck: jesusabdullah: We have underscore, is that more like django?
[02:24] Aria: HEh, I kinda love node too. Express is awesome that way.
[02:24] jesusabdullah: Naw, that's more like the "standard library"
[02:24] mnaser: rules 1 and 2 of node.js is don't mention rails i gues
[02:24] jesusabdullah: haha
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[02:24] Nuck: Just don't bring up Ruby
[02:24] Nuck: Realize how many former Ruby coders are in here
[02:24] jesusabdullah: mnaser: You can bring up ruby/rails, no really
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[02:24] mnaser: seriously i havent seen this channel as active as it was for the past 1 minute
[02:24] mnaser: shit exploded
[02:24] jesusabdullah: mnaser: It's just that rails is a pretty divisive topic
[02:24] Prometheus: =P
[02:24] Prometheus: rails happens.
[02:25] Nuck: We'll just laugh at your choices.
[02:25] jesusabdullah: You mean raylezz
[02:25] Nuck: Prometheus: It happens?  LMAO
[02:25] jesusabdullah: Okay, drew Zan
[02:25] ^robertj: is there a way to make a blocking generator and then feed it values to yield?
[02:25] jesusabdullah: Now, Janya
[02:25] jesusabdullah: the hot one!
[02:25] Nuck: ^robertj: Elaborate?
[02:25] Nuck: jesusabdullah: Who the fuck?
[02:25] mnaser: to be honest, i think that for huge applications, it's really hard to design them in node
[02:25] ^robertj: Nuck, I'v got a StringReader I am trying to turn into a blocking socket reader
[02:25] mnaser: again, im not a node.js expert
[02:26] mscdex: rails isn't as divisive as matlab is
[02:26] polotek: mnaser: that's because node is a platform, not a framework
[02:26] Nuck: mnaser: You get used to it :P
[02:26] polotek: express is a framework
[02:26] mscdex: and labview
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[02:26] polotek: just seems it's not as extensive as you would like
[02:26] mnaser: and rails is blocking, i know.  but yeah, i even saw express, it looks very sinatra like
[02:26] mnaser: that's what i personally think ,rails is a really good groundbase for an app, it has tons of things that's there to help speed up progrmaming
[02:26] mscdex: a platform on a platform!
[02:26] polotek: mnaser: write your own framework. it'll take a long time before it's as extensive as rails
[02:27] mnaser: now if it's the best to do it, might not be, but rails does a great job for it's purpose
[02:27] polotek: but somebody's gotta do it
[02:27] Nuck: mnaser: Once you learn how scope and whatnot work in JS, it's very simple to deal with callbacks.
[02:27] ^robertj: Nuck, so I need a way to wait when there is a peek()
[02:27] Nuck: mnaser: I hate Ruby.  It's my worst enemy.
[02:27] Nuck: ^robertj: I'm afraid that's a bit above my level.
[02:27] mnaser: ruby is a lot better than many of the languages out there
[02:27] polotek: ^robertj: can you use an event emitter?
[02:27] Prometheus: ...
[02:27] Prometheus: please make it stop :/
[02:27] AAA_awright: I wonder if I could write a log parser that analyzes for contervercial topics
[02:27] Nuck: mnaser: You MUST be a convert from PHP.
[02:28] ^robertj: polotek, dunno, can the listeners be blocking?
[02:28] Nuck: I can't think of any other reason you'd consider it a great lenaguage.
[02:28] AAA_awright: Nuck: I still work in PHP because there's no better content management system.
[02:28] polotek: ^robertj: there is no blocking i/o in node
[02:28] mscdex: PHP is now a recursive acronym for People Hating PHP
[02:28] mscdex: ;-)
[02:28] Nuck: AAA_awright: Fair enough
[02:28] polotek: listeners are functions
[02:28] ^robertj: polotek, not in node btw
[02:28] Nuck: mscdex: lol
[02:28] AAA_awright: And it's a pretty good template language, if someone would write a PHP template engine for Node.js
[02:28] polotek: ^robertj: then I'm confused
[02:28] Prometheus: AAA_awright: PHP is a CMS?
[02:28] Nuck: ^robertj: Then why are you asking us?
[02:28] AAA_awright: Prometheus: Drupal
[02:29] Prometheus: oh
[02:29] Nuck: AAA_awright: EJS.
[02:29] ^robertj: doh wrong channel, thought i was in #javascript
[02:29] ^robertj: wasn't paying attention :P
[02:29] mscdex: huh?
[02:29] AAA_awright: Nuck: Eh maybe
[02:29] Nuck: AAA_awright: I picked EJS as my template engine simply because it has the nice PHP-esque syntax.
[02:29] Prometheus: AAA_awright: I'm sure there are, you just haven't come across them yet =)
[02:29] Stythys: http://refinerycms.com/
[02:29] mscdex: ^robertj: what blocking javascript out there is it that you're using?
[02:29] Nuck: AAA_awright: I too love the <?php ?> stuff, it's very nice.
[02:30] mnaser: how good is the video that's on nodejs homepage?  i feel like with how strong-minded everyone is about this, i might be missing something
[02:30] ^robertj: mscdex, jssajaxparser's Reader
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[02:30] mnaser: because im finding it really, really tough to write anything with node, i cant imagine building our entire rails application that we have in node, ever
[02:30] DrPizza_: ok neato.
[02:30] Prometheus: mnaser: I don't think it'd be there if it was complete crap =)
[02:30] DrPizza_: building in VC++.
[02:30] ^robertj: mscdex, it's a javascript sgml parser
[02:30] DrPizza_: excellent.
[02:30] mnaser: well, not crap, but let's just say, convincing
[02:30] Nuck: markbao_: You posted a screencap earlier of your Mongo thing... What is that interface, it looks awesome?
[02:30] DrPizza_: now to make it tidy.
[02:31] mnaser: does it cover a good variety of node?
[02:31] markbao_: Nuck: it's a hosted Mongo thingamajig - MongoHQ.com
[02:31] Nuck: markbao_: AH!
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[02:31] mnaser: because an hour of "this is how to hello world" is meh
[02:31] Nuck: markbao_: I knew it looked slightly familiar.
[02:31] markbao_: :)
[02:31] Nuck: markbao_" Thanks :D
[02:31] Prometheus: mnaser: it's a bit more than just hello world =)
[02:32] mnaser: good.  i'm getting tired and frustrated as shit, i'll probably scratch all i did for today because it's gone no where
[02:32] markbao_: no worries Nuck :D
[02:32] Prometheus: about 30 minutes of hello world =P
[02:32] mnaser: i'll give it a watch before hitting the sack
[02:32] mnaser: but just a heads up, im not trolling anyone with ruby or anything, i wasn't trying to push anyone's buttons
[02:32] mnaser: just fyi
[02:32] Prometheus: mnaser: understandable, you are not the only person to come to node.js from ruby =)
[02:32] polotek: mnaser: your frustration is understandable. if you want to focus on application logic, you're going to have a tough time with node
[02:32] mscdex: mnaser: also i'd bet more people use pure js rather than cs
[02:33] polotek: it's still very new and doesn't have all the tools of a ruby or python
[02:33] mscdex: at least in here
[02:33] Nuck: polotek: That's intentional
[02:33] mnaser: yeah.. my application logic is _really_ not that hard...
[02:33] polotek: not to mention that those tools are more difficult to port because of the async nature of node
[02:33] polotek: vs. those other platforms
[02:33] mnaser: literally, all this node.js application is a frontend API service that recieves a request, then executes a command locally depending on the request
[02:33] Nuck: polotek: Meh, I've gotten used to the async nature of Node.
[02:33] mscdex: mnaser: that's pretty easy to do
[02:34] Nuck: mnaser: REST api?
[02:34] mnaser: get new volume command, run 'zfs create ...." with parameters, tada.
[02:34] Prometheus: try doing that in rails
[02:34] Prometheus: =)
[02:34] mnaser: rails would be overkill for that obviously
[02:34] mnaser: not even the right tool
[02:34] Prometheus: but you said... =P
[02:34] mnaser: i thought of REST API but didnt find good modules, i was suggested dnode (initially i was using the xmlrpc module)
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[02:35] mscdex: you could use express too instead of a specialized module
[02:35] Nuck: mnaser: If you want to make a simple REST API, look at Express.  You jsut toss back JSON as the response and it'll handle it.
[02:35] mscdex: depending on your needs
[02:35] Nuck: I'm building a REST API using it
[02:35] mnaser: but if there's any good restful routers having /pools/mypool/volumes/myvolume
[02:35] mscdex: yeah
[02:35] mnaser: exprss is good to build rest apis?  it seems to me like it had too much
[02:35] mscdex: express is really flexible
[02:35] mnaser: guess i need to give it more of a shot
[02:35] Nuck: mnaser: I thought the same thing, but it really feels lightweight when you're using it.
[02:36] mnaser: it really sucks because i know node is a good option but the time i've lost just figuring out "the right way" to do it
[02:36] Aria: Express is really not that big.
[02:36] Aria: And it's very modular.
[02:36] Nuck: For a rather powerful library, Express feels really lightweight, because as Aria says, it's modular.
[02:36] Nuck: You only use what you need.
[02:36] Aria: And even all of it just isn't that much.
[02:36] Nuck: yep
[02:37] Nuck: because tj is awesome like that :P
[02:37] polotek: mnaser: what is it you're having trouble with exactly?
[02:37] Aria: He really is. I have a lot of respect for him.
[02:37] polotek: you need to understand how node thinks about http
[02:37] Nuck: Aria: Who doesn't?  It's like NPM levels of awesome.
[02:37] polotek: seems to me a simple rest endpoint shouldn't require something like dnode
[02:37] polotek: how did you end up there?
[02:38] mnaser: basically i have a small api endpoint that runs there, not necesarily rest, i thought of rest, express "looked" big so i looked for some rest modules, didnt have luck
[02:38] mnaser: then I just found a good xmlrpc plugin, started using it, was told about dnode and how it might be better, checked out dnode ruby bindings, and so on
[02:38] mnaser: I need to be able to interact with the API using ruby, we still have a huge app that needs to continue to run till we slowly port and move things over
[02:38] Nuck: if you want to have arguments in the path, you can do "/pools/:pool/volumes/:volume/" as the path in app.get();
[02:39] Nuck: mnaser: Just call the API through Ruby
[02:39] mscdex: or you can use custom regex if you need something really fancy
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[02:39] mnaser: it's only used by our manager so not too much to worry about
[02:39] Nuck: Probably not the most efficient means of communication, but I'd imagine it ought to be sufficient.
[02:39] mnaser: we control the input
[02:40] mnaser: well, what would be the 100% efficent way, that's what i'm looking for, honestly.
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[02:40] Aria: Hm. diode seems overkill.
[02:40] Nuck: mnaser: No such thing, to be honest.
[02:40] Aria: er. dnode. Lion, your autocorrect sucks.
[02:40] mnaser: haha, had to deal with that for a while
[02:40] mnaser: (autocorrect)
[02:40] Nuck: The thing is, you'd hafta do inter-process communcation, which is generally a bitch.
[02:41] Nuck: Aria: Oh fuck, Lion added autocorrect?
[02:41] mnaser: by inter-process communication .. ?
[02:41] Aria: Yeah, but it's able to be turned off.
[02:41] Nuck: mnaser: Wait, are these on two separate machines?
[02:41] mnaser: yes, that's why i want a small frontend on the other machine
[02:41] Nuck: mnaser: Will the Ruby app be communicating via a network connection with the Node app?
[02:41] mnaser: so the main can send commands to it
[02:41] Nuck: Okay, then the API calls will be most efficient.
[02:42] mnaser: rails app <-- internal network --> node.js api frontend
[02:42] Nuck: Only real overhead is HTTP itself, but that's EXTREMELY Minimal.
[02:42] MikhX has joined the channel
[02:42] mnaser: low latency infiniband network (its the same as our local storage one)
[02:42] Nuck: infiniband sounds like a shitty 80's group.
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[02:44] mnaser: its fast.
[02:44] tjholowaychuk has joined the channel
[02:44] Aria: Yeah, it's fast if you keep your protocol stack thin.
[02:44] Aria: It's fast enough that you notice the latency of everything.
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[02:45] Nuck: Doesn't make it sounds like less of an 80's band.
[02:45] SubStack: rest is ok until you want to start a job and want to be notified when it's done
[02:45] SubStack: polling super sucks
[02:45] mnaser: it's one-time jobs
[02:45] mnaser: create/snapshot/delete volume, and i just get a response back
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[02:47] Aria: Yeah, REST is awesome for that.
[02:47] Aria: "DO this" "READ that" (post and get, respectively)
[02:47] mnaser: i do a bunch of rest work.. in rails
[02:47] mnaser: :D
[02:48] mnaser: haaha
[02:48] systemfault: Still waiting for browsers that get the fact that there is more than 2 http verbs
[02:48] systemfault: s/that/to
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[02:49] Nuck: Aria: "Shove this down your filesystem" (PUT)
[02:49] Nuck: "Rip this out of your gut" (DELETE)
[02:50] Nuck: systemfault: I want PUT on forms still.
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[02:50] Nuck: That's the BIGGEST thing I want.
[02:50] systemfault: Yeah :)
[02:50] Nuck: I don't care about other verbs.
[02:50] Nuck: I just want PUT.
[02:50] Aria: I still want a "CREATE" verb.
[02:50] systemfault: PUT is definitely the one I want the most.
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[02:51] Nuck: I also want better ways to upload files.
[02:51] systemfault: Aria: What would it do more than POST/PUT
[02:51] Aria: It'd let the server assign the URI
[02:51] systemfault: POST is for that.
[02:51] Aria: And it'd be JUST that, unlike post.
[02:51] Nuck: I should ask so take the multipart-encoded from data and t would take the multipart-encoded from data and pass me a temporary file reference.
[02:51] Aria: No, POST Is "have some data, not idempotent"
[02:51] Aria: Which people use for create.
[02:52] Nuck: What purpose is a CREATE?
[02:52] Nuck: I really don't see the use-case.
[02:53] Nuck: Where's the place to lodge feature requests for Node?
[02:53] Nuck: I want an mktmp.
[02:53] brainproxy: Nuck: perhaps propose your idea/s in the google group
[02:53] Nuck: brainproxy: Blargh.
[02:53] brainproxy: and see what folks think
[02:53] SubStack: Nuck: oh I know a place... it's called npm :p
[02:53] Nuck: SubStack: Surprisingly, no mktemp modules.
[02:54] SubStack: write one!
[02:54] Nuck: SubStack: I don't do C.
[02:54] Nuck: And I dunno if there's an async mktemp equivalent.
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[02:54] Aria: Create? How about MKCOL foo/, then CREATE foo/ \n Suggested-Filename: bar.txt
[02:54] Aria: An you get back a 201 Created; Location foo/bar2.txt
[02:54] SubStack: Nuck: can't you just fs.writeFileSync('/tmp/' + Math.random(), body) ?
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[02:55] Nuck: SubStack: As I understand, mktemp generates a temporary file which will be deleted when unlinked.
[02:55] Nuck: Not sure if /tmp/ works the same way
[02:56] systemfault: Nuck: The name..
[02:56] polotek: It won't on windows
[02:56] SubStack: process.on('exit', fn)?
[02:56] polotek: which means it won't on node pretty soon
[02:56] Nuck: SubStack: I don't ever exit
[02:56] Nuck: This is for an uploading API
[02:57] Nuck: I just want a simple way to create files which I won't bother with the name, I just get passed a file descriptor from the middleware
[02:58] Nuck: Basically, the file gets uploaded, a file is created, a fiel descriptor is kept, but the file is unlinked, so once that descriptor is garbage collected, the file will fade from existence.
[02:58] brownies has joined the channel
[02:59] Aria: Why do it that way?
[02:59] brainproxy: Nuck: maybe node-formidable could be adapted to that purpose?
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[02:59] Aria: with node, you have access to the data as it comes in in the first place.
[02:59] Nuck: lolnetsplit
[03:00] Guest92009: mnaser: look at the size of the code before assuming such things :p as far as frameworks go express is tiny
[03:00] Nuck: Aria: Because it's hard to use it as a file in that form
[03:00] Aria: Ah. What do you want to do with it?
[03:00] mscdex: netsplat
[03:00] Aria: (It's a lot like node's interface to a file… it's a stream.)
[03:01] mnaser: Guest92009: i am doing a bit more reading now.. let's just say i have a lot to learn and not a lot of time
[03:01] mnaser: which is frustrating
[03:01] polotek: Nuck, you're basically describing how PHP does uploads right?
[03:01] Nuck: Guest92009: What's up with the lack of nick?
[03:01] Guest92009: irc is being a douche
[03:01] polotek: mnaser: if you're pressed for time, why would you decide to try and learn node before getting your project done?
[03:01] Nuck: Guest92009
[03:02] Nuck: I see
[03:02] Nuck: " Quits: tjholowaychuk (~tj@96.50.119.149) (*.net *.split)"
[03:02] Nuck: Yowch
[03:02] Nuck: polotek: Basically, yes.
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[03:02] mnaser: polotek: i learn quickly, it's javascript at heart, and it's not that big of a project to be something that i would never think of using node for
[03:02] Nuck: polotek: I want my uploads to be transparent, and then I just deal with my file descriptor.
[03:02] mnaser: at least i think it's a good simple thing to start with
[03:02] polotek: mnaser: apparently not, or you wouldn't be having so much trouble :)
[03:02] tjholowaychuk has joined the channel
[03:02] polotek: node runs javascript
[03:03] Nuck: brainproxy: I am looking at formidable though, but I'm not sure how I'd go about it :/
[03:03] polotek: but it introduces some seriously new constructs
[03:03] mnaser: haha, i'm just 3-4 days in.  i promise i'll get it all down!
[03:03] mnaser: heh
[03:03] polotek: those of us who are fans of node find those constructs pretty intuitive and nice to use
[03:03] polotek: but it shouldn't be taken lightly I guess
[03:03] Nuck: polotek: I sure do.
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[03:05] mnaser: i just need exposure.. im doing my fair share of reading
[03:05] Nuck: mnaser: Don't worry, Node is a flasher, it will expose itself to you quite quickly.
[03:06] e6nian has joined the channel
[03:06] mnaser: is there online podcasts for node?
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[03:06] brainproxy: mnaser: did you take a look at the Node Beginner Book?
[03:07] mnaser: googling that now
[03:07] polotek: Nuck: you could approximate your upload thing in pure js
[03:07] brainproxy: http://www.nodebeginner.org/
[03:07] polotek: your middleware would create a tmp filename and stream the file there
[03:07] brainproxy: you can read it free online, or buy a pdf
[03:07] polotek: set a listener on response "end" and delete the file
[03:08] mnaser: ill check it out today
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[03:08] Nuck: polotek: Will it still exist if I keep a file descriptor but delete it?
[03:08] Aria: In unix, yes. Windows doesn't allow this.
[03:08] Nuck: Good thing my servers are Linux ;)
[03:09] polotek: if you have an fd you have to have the data around, either on the fs or in memory right?
[03:09] polotek: (reaching the limits of my experience at this level)
[03:09] Nuck: I'm pretty sure as long as it keeps an fd, it remains in existence, just unnamed.
[03:09] polotek: the way it works in PHP is you get the tmp filename, verify the upload however you do that
[03:09] Nuck: Or wait
[03:10] Nuck: Do I just unlink?
[03:10] polotek: and then move_upload_file or whatever the function name is
[03:10] polotek: which copies the file to a location of your choosing
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[03:10] polotek: Nuck, try that
[03:10] Aria: Just unlink.
[03:10] polotek: gotta go. later gents
[03:11] Aria: Though I'd just open the place I want it and write it as it comes in.
[03:11] Aria: No temp file at all.
[03:11] Nuck: Aria: I'm no good with Linux, can somebody explain the concept of linking and unlinking to me?
[03:11] polotek: Aria: verifying uploads is sometimes important
[03:11] tjholowaychuk: Nuck unlinking is like a reference
[03:11] polotek: hard to do when streaming
[03:11] Nuck: Aria: Well, it's uploaded first via AJAX, then I set it into place later.
[03:11] tjholowaychuk: you just say
[03:11] tjholowaychuk: im done with that shit
[03:11] tjholowaychuk: if all procs are done with it, then it's removed
[03:11] Nuck: tjholowaychuk: If I unlink but keep an fd, it stays, though?
[03:11] Nuck: This is ideal for a temp file.
[03:12] Nuck: Do I jsut call unlink on the file I write to?
[03:12] tjholowaychuk: yeah pass it a path
[03:12] Nexxy: omg teej language
[03:12] Nuck: As it is, I have an uploader that basically just dumps the raw file data into an HTTP body
[03:12] Aria: Nuck: any reason for this?
[03:12] shanebo: is it normal for node to make your head hurt?
[03:12] Nuck: And I just pipe into file
[03:12] Nuck: Aria: For what?
[03:13] Nuck: shanebo: That is a side effect of starting with Node, it goes away with continued use.
[03:13] Aria: Nuck: For using a temp file.
[03:13] shanebo: Nuck, man I sure hope so because I'm almost ready to bail :D
[03:13] Aria: shanebo: Yeah, async will break your head for a while.
[03:13] shanebo: what I don't get is how it's been compared to front-end js?
[03:13] Nuck: shanebo: It's actually quite pleasant once it digs its way into your psyche.
[03:14] Nuck: shanebo: Honestly, I don't see the semblance either, other than how it's the same language.
[03:14] shanebo: yeah, maybe that's why I've been confused
[03:14] Aria: shanebo: It's evented, that's the only similarity, other than the javascript.
[03:14] Nuck: shanebo: It's highly efficient and great for making powerful servers, though.
[03:15] brainproxy: event-driven, callbacks
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[03:15] Aria: Just as you have addEventListener('click'), you have on('data') in node.
[03:15] Nuck: Aria: I pipe to a temp file, display it on the page so they know what they just uploaded, then ask them for a title and whatnot.  If they never give a title and finish uploading, it needs to disappear.
[03:15] shanebo: no where in front-end js will you ever see a console.log, which is after a method with a console.log, fire before hand.
[03:15] Aria: 
ACTION nods. How long's the timeout?

[03:15] brainproxy: shanebo: I use console.log all the time in the front-end
[03:15] Nuck: shanebo: That happens.
[03:15] brainproxy: lol
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[03:16] Nuck: shanebo: Think of this: $(function(){ console.log('1'); }); console.log('2');
[03:16] Nuck: It will log 2, then 1.
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[03:16] shanebo: haha, that's exactly what I did locally here
[03:16] Nuck: It's all events.
[03:16] shanebo: and was dumbfounded
[03:17] shanebo: hahahah
[03:17] shanebo: i'm not alone
[03:17] Nuck: shanebo: Yeah, it's a bit odd, but you learn to read teh indentation as ordering isntead of the lines.
[03:17] shanebo: not sure I can get used to that
[03:17] Nuck: It just takes a bit of a mental change.
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[03:18] Nuck: Aria: I'm thinking I don't wanna do a timeout.
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[03:18] Aria: Hm. Then when will this 'disappearance' take place?
[03:18] Aria: I mean, you really don't want to tie GC timing to user experience.
[03:18] Nuck: Aria: Hmmm... Valid point...
[03:18] Nuck: The big question for me is "how do I keep this shit around between pageloads"
[03:18] shanebo: Nuck, and the strange thing is that it only seems to do that with methods with callbacks
[03:19] Nuck: Can't shove an fd into a database, but I'm sure I can use an object.
[03:19] Aria: What I'd do is write it to a temp file mysef, "incoming/id", then when the title comes in, move it. And when it comes in the first place, setTimeout(removethefile, 3600)
[03:19] Aria: Nuck: That's easy. Node's persistent. All the page loads can share variables.
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[03:20] Aria: If you use a global (or common between your two pages, anyway) variable, the data will be there.
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[03:20] Aria: IT's not like PHP where there's a free(everything) at the end of each request.
[03:20] Aria: Local variables die with their function or closure, but more global things last.
[03:20] Nuck: shanebo: Yeah, here's how it works: callbacks are executed when the command that is trying to be run is done.  It returns instantly, but the callback will be run when the event happens.
[03:21] Nuck: Code continues, but that callback will run when the event hits.
[03:21] Nuck: Until then, shit goes on.
[03:21] Nuck: Aria: I'd love to use a session store, but mine is on my db layer :/
[03:21] shanebo: does it help to trip on acid because I still don't get it ;)
[03:22] Aria: Nuck: Why? If it's in node, it's all there...
[03:22] Nuck: shanebo: lol did you ever deal with setTimeout in the browser, or perhaps events?
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[03:22] shanebo: very familiar with events
[03:22] shanebo: and delegation
[03:22] Nuck: Aria: I don't have globals per-user or per-session, only global for my server.  So I need to tie the uploads to a given session.
[03:22] Nuck: SeE?
[03:22] shanebo: but again, code still waits for something else to process before it fires the next line :D
[03:23] Aria: Right . . . So you have to do the ID yourself. But you can do that.
[03:23] Nuck: shanebo: Think of each callback function as an event listener.  It will wait until the event fires before actually running, but anything after that callback will still continue as usual.
[03:23] Nuck: It's no different from the events on the client-side
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[03:24] shanebo: okay that helps
[03:24] shanebo: can i show you some concept code and you can tell me how stupid this is?
[03:25] Nuck: Using fs.readFile(function(){}) is just binding that "readFile" event and calling function when it's done.
[03:25] Nuck: shanebo: Sure :)
[03:25] shanebo: fs.readFile is what I'm getting hung up on
[03:25] Nuck: Aria: I'll just use an object with session IDs and whatnot :P
[03:26] Nuck: shanebo: If you want something to run after that, you don't shove it after it, you shove it in it.
[03:26] shanebo: boo!
[03:26] shanebo: :D
[03:26] Nuck: That's the thing that confuses a lot of people.  Stepping is done through callbacks.
[03:26] shanebo: it feels dirty
[03:26] Nuck: shanebo: It feels natural once you learn it better.
[03:27] shanebo: that means I've gotta litter and pass req and res in almost every method i run though right?
[03:27] brainproxy: yes, but you don't have to use anonymous functions
[03:27] Nuck: shanebo: Not quite
[03:27] shanebo: brainproxy, I rarely do
[03:28] Nuck: shanebo: Once you define a variable (whether as an argument or via `var req`), it is in that scope and all scopes within that.
[03:28] Nuck: So once you have a callback within a callback, the arguments of the outer one will be accessible from the inner one
[03:28] shanebo: even if it's not an anon func?
[03:28] Nuck: Node.js is a lot like inception.
[03:28] Nuck: shanebo: As long as it is defined within there
[03:28] shanebo: hahahaha
[03:28] Nuck: That's lexical scope
[03:28] brainproxy: just be careful w/ the closures :)
[03:29] Nuck: brainproxy: Pssssssssh! Fuck that noise, I use closures all willy-nilly.
[03:29] shanebo: brainproxy, care to elaborate?
[03:29] Hurreman: I've felt that all those hours writing jQuery-plugins (where nested callbacks are quite common) helped me get into node a bit faster. But just a week in so far, so still learning, but the initial headaches are gone :)
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[03:29] Nuck: Hurreman: lol
[03:29] Nuck: You shoulda seen me when I first started with Node.
[03:29] Nuck: My code was horribad.
[03:29] Nuck: Because I didn't understand what the fuck scope meant.
[03:30] Hurreman: hehe
[03:30] Nuck: I just used this.foo and then shoved .bind(this)
[03:30] Nuck: I cheated ;)
[03:30] Hurreman: :p
[03:30] Nuck: But sometime in February I had a revelation and suddenly it all made sense.
[03:31] Nuck: And now I <3 Lexical Scope.
[03:32] brainproxy: shanebo: there are some good tips here http://bonsaiden.github.com/JavaScript-Garden/#function.closures
[03:33] Hurreman: I've been doing webdevelopment for over 13 years and node + websockets is probably one of the biggest "aaaaaaaaaaah"-moment I've had since first discovering sql :P
[03:34] Nuck: Hurreman: Have you discovered NoSQL yet?
[03:34] tjholowaychuk: aaaaaaaaaaah
[03:34] tbranyen: lol
[03:34] Hurreman: lol ;)
[03:34] shanebo: brainproxy thanks!
[03:34] Nuck: "all that is left is in the language is function scope."
[03:34] Nuck: I guess that makes sense.
[03:34] tbranyen: wonder what the websocket support is for web frames in native mobile apps
[03:34] Hurreman: Nuck: Discovered yeah, implemented, no
[03:34] tbranyen: probably really poor
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[03:35] Nuck: Hurreman: Implement with Mongo + Node.js, it's better than the Node + WebSockets duo
[03:35] tbranyen: Nuck: or implement the trio
[03:35] Nuck: tbranyen: And you have an orgasmic setup ;)
[03:35] tbranyen: its not like they are mutually exclusive
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[03:35] Nuck: Or better yet, socket.io
[03:35] tbranyen: Nuck: i'm working with backbone in node connected to mongo and its been awesome
[03:35] Nuck: WebSockets without the cross-browser pain in the ass
[03:36] tbranyen: can't wait to hook up the client side
[03:36] Hurreman: tbranyen: you think? From my experience mobile support for html5 is actually pretty sweet
[03:36] tbranyen: Hurreman: websockets in iOS only exist in 4.2
[03:36] tbranyen: i dunno about android
[03:36] tbranyen: or blackberry
[03:36] Nuck: Safari Mobile works great for WebSockets
[03:36] Nuck: Who gives a fuck about BlackBerry
[03:36] tbranyen: Nuck: ... only in the absolute latest
[03:36] tbranyen: Nuck: people who aren't closed minded
[03:36] Hurreman: ah
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[03:37] tjholowaychuk: aaaaaaaaaaah
[03:37] tbranyen: Hurreman: although... polyfilling that...
[03:37] tbranyen: omg
[03:37] tbranyen: that'd be tits
[03:37] tbranyen: to NSSocket(iOS) and Socket(Android)
[03:38] tbranyen: i'm sure there are websocket implementations in obj-c and android
[03:38] tbranyen: er java*
[03:39] tjholowaychuk: ah i just got a wicked idea
[03:39] Nuck: Android: The only reason anyone still learns Java.
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[03:40] Nuck: Minecraft: The only reason anyone still has the JVM.
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[03:40] tjholowaychuk: what would you guys say the most available scripting lang is?
[03:40] tjholowaychuk: py?
[03:40] tjholowaychuk: (general purpose)
[03:41] Nuck: "most available"?
[03:41] Nuck: Like, most often installed?
[03:41] tjholowaychuk: already on systems
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[03:41] Nuck: Probably Python, with a close second being PHP
[03:41] systemfault: python -> Perl
[03:42] Nuck: Though JavaScript is the most common scripting language, probably, if you don't want "general purpose".
[03:42] tjholowaychuk: oh yeah perl
[03:42] Nuck: oh /vomit perl.
[03:42] tjholowaychuk: nah i just need something that is not much of a PITA
[03:42] Nuck: I tried to learn that when I was 11
[03:42] Nuck: It was hideous.
[03:42] blkcat: mmm, perl. <3
[03:42] Nuck: tjholowaychuk: PHP or Python, I'd say.
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[03:42] Nexxy: PHP is a pain in the ass
[03:42] Nuck: It's not that bad IMO
[03:42] Nuck: I prefer it over Perl or Python.
[03:43] Hurreman: PHP is what you make of it
[03:43] Prometheus: python++
[03:43] Nuck: Python has awkward syntax, and Perl is just... Fucking hideous.
[03:43] blkcat: php is just perl with all the good bits taken out, which is why you probably liked it better when you were 11. :)
[03:43] tjholowaychuk: the greatest thing about php is how great it makes every other language feel
[03:43] Nuck: catb0t: Y U NO WORK
[03:43] Nuck: node++
[03:43] Nuck: 
ACTION rages at catb0t

[03:43] Nuck: Who wants a vanilla v8bot again?
[03:43] Nuck: Grab me a nick and I'll host it reliably.
[03:43] halfhalo: 
ACTION throws lisp out into the ring

[03:44] tjholowaychuk: actually nvm it doesnt matter
[03:44] Nuck: (I have a home server that already hosts 3 bots for deviantART chat)
[03:44] Hurreman: tjholowaychuk: that's how I feel about vb.net
[03:44] tjholowaychuk: i can precompile so i'll just use node
[03:44] tjholowaychuk: silly me
[03:44] Nuck: tjholowaychuk: good choice.
[03:45] tbranyen: tjholowaychuk: perl
[03:45] Nuck: tbranyen: Bit up on the slowtake there
[03:45] tbranyen: actually i scrolled up and nobody said it, just some guy bitching about syntax
[03:45] tjholowaychuk: what a lame error unused value on *str++;
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[03:47] dexter_e: Are there any obvious reasons why Weld.js isn't the default choice for all templating? 
[03:47] dexter_e: It seems like such a revolutionary solution
[03:47] tjholowaychuk: slow
[03:47] dexter_e: Oh really , wow
[03:48] tbranyen: dexter_e: because not all template engines should rely on the dom?
[03:48] tjholowaychuk: it's cool, but on the SS you'd need jsdom etc
[03:48] tjholowaychuk: on the CS i think templates are kinda useless
[03:48] Nuck: Because EJS and Jade cover most efficient solutions?
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[03:48] tbranyen: tjholowaychuk: i'm trying to change that :)
[03:48] tbranyen: at least with this current project
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[03:48] tjholowaychuk: did you see caustic?
[03:48] tjholowaychuk: CS stuff is far too dynamic
[03:49] tjholowaychuk: im not nearly done yet but it's a start
[03:49] tbranyen: tjholowaychuk: dude its a pain in the dilz, but it can yield a shit ton in performance
[03:49] tbranyen: lincoln me
[03:49] tbranyen: is it on your github?
[03:49] dexter_e: do you guys know if weld.js can be used to inject data into html attributes as well (  href=""  src="" 
[03:49] dexter_e: ?
[03:49] tjholowaychuk: tbranyen yup
[03:49] tbranyen: kk
[03:49] tjholowaychuk: it's not really a template engine
[03:49] tjholowaychuk: just a view system thing
[03:49] dexter_e: weld.js isn't a template engine ?
[03:49] tjholowaychuk: behaviour is basically embedded in html
[03:49] tjholowaychuk: so
[03:50] tbranyen: I've been thinking about client side from standpoint of startup, running, teardown events for all dynamic components
[03:50] tjholowaychuk: for example if you have <ul class="pets"></ul> in your "template" caustic will give you .pets.add(pet) etc
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[03:50] tjholowaychuk: tonnnnns of shit can be deduced from the markup itself
[03:50] tbranyen: each partial/component needs to be responsible for all events/dom elements/fetching/rendering etc
[03:50] tbranyen: hmmm
[03:50] tbranyen: looking it up, cause that sounds kind of sketch
[03:51] tjholowaychuk: it's definitely weird
[03:51] tjholowaychuk: http://www.screenr.com/s72s
[03:51] tjholowaychuk: here's the screencast
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[03:52] dexter_e: Anyone know how weld.js can be used to inject the attributes of html nodes?
[03:52] dexter_e: for example  <img src="myimage">     How does weld.js target the src ? 
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[03:53] dexter_e: Wow perfect timing
[03:54] dexter_e: Mr. hij1nx:  Can weld.js be used to inject html attributes like src and href?
[03:54] tbranyen: tjholowaychuk: ah yeah i see what you're doing there.  my goal is to have every page backed by the server to eliminate render flicker on load and then from there everything is done client side
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[03:54] tbranyen: i hate going to sites that load dynamic content client side on initial load
[03:54] tbranyen: you get that ridiculously annoying flicker
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[03:55] Nuck: `v8 commands
[03:55] Nuck: `v commands
[03:55] SirRonKcuhc: Nuck: Commands: Type `v <command>.  Optionally, type `v <command> @ <nick> to send to a specific user. 				`v Commands are: about, beers, commands, git, google, help, macro. Other commands: v8, `re, `pcre, `ref.  Type `v help <command> for more information.  Join #v8bot for more support.
[03:55] Nuck: 
ACTION yells "hooray!"

[03:55] tjholowaychuk: tbranyen yeah i think the initial layout should be SS
[03:55] tjholowaychuk: pretty much always
[03:56] tjholowaychuk: but as far as smaller templates go, if you truly have an "app"
[03:56] tjholowaychuk: i think templates are kinda useless
[03:56] Nuck: SirRonKcuhc++
[03:56] SirRonKcuhc:  Nuck has given a beer to SirRonKcuhc. SirRonKcuhc now has 1 beers.
[03:56] catb0t: SirRonKcuhc now has 1 beer
[03:56] tbranyen: well you gotta use something
[03:56] Nuck: lel
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[03:56] tjholowaychuk: you do, but you want something dynamic
[03:56] Nuck: catb0t: Picky little shit.
[03:56] tjholowaychuk: you dont want to re-render a template to change a title
[03:56] tbranyen: tjholowaychuk: something like uki?
[03:56] tjholowaychuk: when you can just do .title(str)
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[03:57] tjholowaychuk: people just need to stop thinking of views as somrthing you pass an object to
[03:57] tjholowaychuk: but something that is integrated
[03:57] tjholowaychuk: dynamic and "alive"
[03:57] shurane: Does everybody use anonymous functions in Javascript? Everything I see with jsdom seems to liberally use it.
[03:57] tjholowaychuk: shurane all the time
[03:58] tbranyen: tjholowaychuk: hmmm that kind of shakes the foundation of data binding, no?
[03:58] tbranyen: well maybe not
[03:58] tbranyen: so long as data and presentation are 1:1
[03:58] shurane: Is it *that* common?
[03:59] tbranyen: shurane: about as common as naming your javascript files with the extension .js
[03:59] dexter_e: Can weld.js inject html attributes?  :)
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[04:00] Nuck: I have an idea for an extension to v8bot.
[04:02] Nuck: The idea would be to hook it into NPM, so you can `install mongodb-native or something, then provide filtered access to require()
[04:02] Nuck: You'd be able to `install environment extension, then v8@environment: code
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[04:02] Nuck: And it would allow you to call on shit :P
[04:06] dexter_e: Anyone know how to use weld.js ?  
[04:07] tjholowaychuk: doesn't sound like it
[04:07] dexter_e: Yeah, pardon the redundance
[04:07] dexter_e: I've just been trying to get this one question and google can't seem to caugh it up
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[04:08] dexter_e: tjholowaychuck: Do you know which templating engine will render even if data is missing?
[04:08] tbranyen: mine will :D
[04:08] tjholowaychuk: weld and caustic need to combine
[04:08] tbranyen: but mine is also currently buggy as shit
[04:08] tjholowaychuk: i like that you can shove an object at weld
[04:08] tjholowaychuk: but you would still have to wrap an api around it
[04:08] dexter_e: Yeah I think thats where its at
[04:09] dexter_e: Basically like rubys merge or reverse_merge method
[04:09] dexter_e: but for views
[04:09] Nuck: tjholowaychuk: I think you should put MiddleWare into caustic.
[04:09] dexter_e:       MyTemplate.reverse_merge(   myObject  )   
[04:09] tjholowaychuk: Nuck yeah some plugins would be nice
[04:09] Nuck: Because I'd like to be able to add my own methods to modify data which would then be changed before DOM-ifying.
[04:09] tjholowaychuk: instead of the visitor
[04:09] Nuck: Like, with birthdays, etc.
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[04:10] dexter_e: Which template engine won't crash upon missing data ?
[04:10] Nuck: dexter_e: None of the ones in Express?
[04:10] tjholowaychuk: mustache
[04:10] Nuck: They just fire off to express.error I'd imagine
[04:10] tjholowaychuk: he means undefined vars i guess
[04:10] Nuck: Hey Anonymous, grab my 'stache!
[04:10] tbranyen: tjholowaychuk: do i need to do anything special for partials support in express for my template engine?
[04:11] tjholowaychuk: tbranyen shouldn't have to
[04:11] dexter_e: can mustache be used for  on the fly defaulting too ?  Like      var a = s || "default"  ?
[04:11] tbranyen: excellent
[04:11] tjholowaychuk: as long as it supports local vars
[04:11] tjholowaychuk: and native js function execution
[04:11] tbranyen: yup
[04:11] tbranyen: but it doesn't support conditionals in loops
[04:11] tbranyen: learned that yesterday
[04:12] dexter_e: I see.  Yeah I was surprised that EJS didn't support that either.
[04:12] tbranyen: well in my case its a bug
[04:12] dexter_e: That made me wonder why its even called Embedded Javascript  
[04:12] tbranyen: :-p
[04:12] tjholowaychuk: ejs does
[04:12] tjholowaychuk: ..
[04:12] tjholowaychuk: lol
[04:12] tjholowaychuk: it IS just js
[04:12] tjholowaychuk: so yeah you can nest whatever you want
[04:12] tbranyen: tjholowaychuk: shame there are two ejs's
[04:12] tjholowaychuk: ah
[04:12] tjholowaychuk: true
[04:12] tbranyen: i always get confused and think of javascriptmvc's
[04:12] tjholowaychuk: im writing mustache for c
[04:13] tbranyen: o rly
[04:13] dexter_e: actually though  if you reference anything undefined in an EJS template it will halt
[04:13] tbranyen: too bad mustache sucks donkey dicks
[04:13] tjholowaychuk: sorry it's not mustache
[04:13] tjholowaychuk: mustache-like
[04:13] tbranyen: oh
[04:13] tjholowaychuk: dexter_e yeah
[04:13] tbranyen: yeah i derive a lot from mustache
[04:13] tjholowaychuk: js will do that to you
[04:13] tjholowaychuk: but that's js, not ejs
[04:13] dexter_e: well JS will keep going 
[04:13] tjholowaychuk: no
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[04:14] tjholowaychuk: it wont
[04:14] tjholowaychuk: v8: you there
[04:14] SirRonKcuhc: tjholowaychuk: SyntaxError: Unexpected identifier
[04:14] dexter_e: in js if you  do   var s=a || b it will evaluate both. 
[04:14] tjholowaychuk: v8: foo || bar
[04:14] SirRonKcuhc: tjholowaychuk: ReferenceError: foo is not defined
[04:14] tjholowaychuk: see
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[04:14] Nuck: tjholowaychuk: I set up a new v8bot for us :P
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[04:14] Nuck: Since he's been gone forever :P
[04:14] tjholowaychuk: haha
[04:14] Nuck: And catb0t is a hooker.
[04:14] Nuck: And a furry.
[04:14] Nuck: And nobody likes furries.
[04:16] tbranyen: my cat is a furry and i lurve her
[04:16] tjholowaychuk: my cat is trying to drink
[04:16] tjholowaychuk: my beer
[04:16] Nuck: I prefer dogs
[04:16] tjholowaychuk: i want a sugar glider
[04:16] Nuck: They're so lovable.
[04:16] AAA_awright: Hey my dog is furry you insensitive clod
[04:16] Nuck: sugar glider?
[04:16] tbranyen: my cat don't like my ... smoke
[04:17] Nuck: AAA_awright: Mine is fuzzy :P
[04:17] dexter_e:  JS:    var a = nonExistantValue || "default-string";    =>a:'default-string'        EJS:   var a = nonExistantValue || "default-string"  =>  'nonExistantValue is undefined' wont run. 
[04:17] AAA_awright: That's a subset of furry?
[04:17] Nuck: AAA_awright: No, fuzzy doesn't yiff.
[04:17] tbranyen: dexter_e: nonExistentValue needs to be defined
[04:17] tbranyen: like scoped
[04:17] AAA_awright: ahem.
[04:18] tbranyen: v8> var a = nonExistentValue || "default-string";
[04:18] SirRonKcuhc: tbranyen: ReferenceError: nonExistentValue is not defined
[04:18] tbranyen: v8> var a = nonExistentValue || "default-string"; var nonExistentValue;
[04:18] SirRonKcuhc: tbranyen: undefined
[04:18] tbranyen: v8> var a = nonExistentValue || "default-string"; var nonExistentValue; a
[04:18] SirRonKcuhc: tbranyen: "default-string"
[04:18] tbranyen: boom shakalaka boom
[04:18] Nuck: Thank Science for open-source bots.
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[04:19] glen1: hey
[04:19] dexter_e: var obj={}    var a = obj.nonExistantValue || "default-string"; 
[04:19] dexter_e: JS works ,  EJS halts 
[04:19] tjholowaychuk: nope
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[04:20] dexter_e: JS halts too?
[04:20] tbranyen: in that case it wouldn't
[04:20] tjholowaychuk: if it's defined that will work
[04:20] tjholowaychuk: ejs IS js
[04:20] tjholowaychuk: same with jade
[04:21] Nuck: Jade is just ugly.
[04:21] tbranyen: pfft yeah right, i bet you wrote a parser for something almost identical to JS, but you halt on undefineds just to fuck with us
[04:21] Nuck: It's powerful
[04:21] Nuck: But ugly.
[04:21] Nuck: Like Russia.
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[04:21] tjholowaychuk: haha yeah it takes a while to get used to
[04:21] tjholowaychuk: i cant stand stuff like ejs
[04:21] tjholowaychuk: personally
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[04:21] tjholowaychuk: i wrote a markdown to docbook compiler
[04:21] tjholowaychuk: for my book
[04:21] dexter_e: Is it possible to use EJS in a way that templates will render regardless of garbage going in?
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[04:21] tjholowaychuk: because i fucking hate xml
[04:21] tbranyen: markdown++
[04:21] SirRonKcuhc:  tbranyen has given a beer to markdown. markdown now has 1 beers.
[04:22] Nuck: dexter_e: EJS is LITERALLY just JS.
[04:22] Nuck: catb0t is picky with the ++'s as always.
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[04:23] dexter_e: var data={ garbage:"non-related"};     var html = new EJS({url: 'cleaning.ejs'}).render(data);        Is there a way to make templates still render in this situation?
[04:24] tjholowaychuk: oh you're using the lame CS ejs
[04:24] tjholowaychuk: no clue
[04:25] tjholowaychuk: I imagine it's similar
[04:25] dexter_e: whats cs ejs ?
[04:25] Nuck: client-side EJS?
[04:25] dexter_e: oh 
[04:25] dexter_e: yeah 
[04:25] dexter_e: I didn't know it was lame I thought there was only one ejs  wow
[04:25] Nuck: Nope
[04:25] tjholowaychuk: it's just a really gross implementation
[04:25] Nuck: You can render on the server too
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[04:25] tjholowaychuk: like the mustache js implementation haha it's huge for something so basic
[04:25] Nuck: I use it via tjholowaychuk's awesome Express.
[04:26] dexter_e: I'm using ejs  in node too 
[04:26] Nuck: dexter_e: Got NPM?
[04:26] tbranyen: tjholowaychuk: i was surprised at how slow it is
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[04:26] tbranyen: not that it matters much for the size of my templates
[04:26] tjholowaychuk: which?
[04:26] tbranyen: mustache.js
[04:26] tjholowaychuk: ejs?
[04:26] dexter_e: Nuck: Yes got npm
[04:26] tjholowaychuk: oh
[04:26] tjholowaychuk: yeah mustache should be really optimized
[04:26] Nuck: npm install ejs
[04:26] tjholowaychuk: more so than ejs etc
[04:26] Nuck: amirite?
[04:26] tjholowaychuk: yup
[04:27] dexter_e: yeah I installed ejs 
[04:27] dexter_e: with npm install ejs
[04:27] Nuck: npm is very straightforward.
[04:28] dexter_e: but I am also using EJS to render  in-browser map reduce functions with underscore 
[04:28] hij1nx has joined the channel
[04:29] dexter_e: so all UI-events just request data from the local model and the model does update-merging between clicks behind the scenes.
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[04:33] dexter_e: I think once solutions like  Weld.js and Caustic are on the horizon its hard to still use {{}}<%%>type stuff.
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[04:33] tbranyen: dexter_e: i dunno i think {{ }} will always be my first choice
[04:33] tbranyen: since its so obvious whats going on
[04:34] tjholowaychuk: the only inflexibility due to something like weld or caustic is the granular stuff
[04:34] tjholowaychuk: other than that they are wildly more helpful
[04:34] dexter_e: granular stuff like what?
[04:34] dexter_e: like conditionals and stuff ?
[04:34] tbranyen: tjholowaychuk: unless you are a client side developer who hates the DOM with a passion of the christ
[04:34] tjholowaychuk: like if you want to set a title, and have the title represent say "User {name}" but you get an auto-generated .title(str)
[04:35] dexter_e: right right
[04:35] tjholowaychuk: you have to tell it some how that you want a {pre,post}fix
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[04:35] tjholowaychuk: though wth caustic you could easily hint at that
[04:35] tjholowaychuk: <h1 class="title">User {val}</h1> etc could still be used
[04:35] tjholowaychuk: tbranyen haha well we kinda have to use it
[04:36] tjholowaychuk: i just dont want to write my view abstraction layer
[04:36] tjholowaychuk: by hand all the time
[04:36] tjholowaychuk: i dont do client-stuff often
[04:36] tjholowaychuk: but that seemed obvious to me
[04:37] tbranyen: i dunno just seems like your data and your view should be completely separate, that much seemed obvious to me
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[04:37] tbranyen: why should i be coding all this presentation layer stuff
[04:37] tjholowaychuk: they aren't separate
[04:37] tjholowaychuk: decoupling css/html/js
[04:37] tjholowaychuk: is BS
[04:37] tjholowaychuk: IMO
[04:37] tbranyen: no wai
[04:37] tjholowaychuk: they are extremely coupled
[04:37] Nexxy: that's what she said
[04:37] dexter_e: its true
[04:37] jerrysv: css/html = presentation
[04:38] tbranyen: yes
[04:38] tbranyen: i agree with that
[04:38] Nuck: CSS and HTML are one and the same, IMO.
[04:38] jerrysv: javascript = more dynamic
[04:38] Nuck: JS is a bit more separate
[04:38] jerrysv: though css3 transitions have approached javascript
[04:38] tbranyen: jerrysv: yeah and not many people are happy about that
[04:38] tbranyen: well i'm speaking for myself
[04:38] Nuck: jerrysv: I disagree. transitions are something for presentation, not for action.
[04:38] tjholowaychuk: plus with something like caustic, it's still separate, but WHEN/WHERE you update portions of a view
[04:39] tjholowaychuk: are stil the same as rendering some template really
[04:39] tjholowaychuk: Nuck: yeah I agree too
[04:39] brainproxy: there's this interesting CS field called bi-directional programming, which is closely tied to the "view update" problem and involves neat concepts like "lenses" and "get put" laws
[04:39] tjholowaychuk: css should have more
[04:39] Nuck: JS = action, CSS/HTML = presentation
[04:39] tbranyen: seems thats the same as jQuery("header").text("some header");
[04:39] tbranyen: which is ugly
[04:39] jerrysv: nuck: but that line can blur some, depending on the transition
[04:39] tbranyen: and shitty to work with someone else who codes like that
[04:39] Nuck: CSS3 transitions are just presentation in their core
[04:39] brainproxy: I think it would interesting to try to bring some of that research into templating and shared-state stuff
[04:39] Nuck: jerrysv: Not that much.
[04:39] AAA_awright: JS=logic, CSS=presentation, XML/RDF=data
[04:39] Nuck: Some people try to use it as such
[04:39] tjholowaychuk: tbranyen vs view.render({ header: 'val'}) ?
[04:40] tjholowaychuk: same thing really
[04:40] tjholowaychuk: one is more flexible
[04:40] Nuck: But it is still not JS
[04:40] tjholowaychuk: one is less flexible
[04:40] dexter_e: I think things will move in the direction which Flash has actually been going. 
[04:40] Nuck: AAA_awright: I agree, but substitute HTML5 for XML
[04:40] jerrysv: regardless, break the logic out from the presentation
[04:40] dexter_e: Blackboxes of functionality
[04:40] AAA_awright: Which is a subset of XML
[04:40] AAA_awright: Really, I mean DOM
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[04:40] cha0s has joined the channel
[04:40] AAA_awright: Formatting doesn't really matter
[04:40] tbranyen: tjholowaychuk: except that in the first example header is a DOM element that could theoretically change to <div id="header"> which then breaks the code generation the presentation
[04:41] jerrysv: sorry to jump in (i should have ignored the irc window)
[04:41] tjholowaychuk: in most interactive web apps the presentation is highly coupled to any actions
[04:41] tbranyen: while in the second, it's a freely movable property
[04:41] dexter_e:   Sealed components which just accept an object and we don't need to know how they work inside. 
[04:41] tjholowaychuk: tbranyen: sure, that's why you use an abstraction
[04:41] tbranyen: since its just data and the presentation encapsulates it
[04:41] Nuck: jerrysv: I use CSS3 for progressive ehancement.
[04:41] shanebo: Nuck, re: CSS transitions, it is a play on js because there are things like :hover where you can "fire" a transition. So it's a blurring in my opinion...
[04:41] tbranyen: yea yea yea, too old with client side to hear these new fangled ideas
[04:41] Nuck: AAA_awright: It's a subset of dom and a brother to XML
[04:41] dexter_e: tjholowaychuk: Have you ever played around with Flash MovieClips by any chance ?
[04:42] tjholowaychuk: nope
[04:42] tjholowaychuk: not in like 5 years
[04:42] Nuck: XML and HTML are only similar in looking, very different in parsing.
[04:42] jerrysv: nuck: i suppose if you're using javascript to change parameters that are modified in the presentation by the transition it moves it back to the presentation layer ...
[04:42] tbranyen: unfortunately
[04:42] Nexxy: how is a transition anything *but* presentation?
[04:42] hij1nx: dexter_e: hey
[04:42] Nuck: Nexxy: Very good question.
[04:43] dexter_e: hij1nx: hey
[04:43] AAA_awright: Different in parsing how?
[04:43] dexter_e: The man himself. 
[04:43] dexter_e: I'm raging to use your weld.js module. 
[04:43] jerrysv: hij1nx: you all fixed?
[04:43] hij1nx: dexter_e: you can use weld to do this
[04:43] Nexxy: woah tmi
[04:43] hij1nx: jerrysv: yep! =)
[04:43] dexter_e: How to inject src and hrefs etc. ?
[04:43] Nuck: AAA_awright: HTML is designed to not die with glitches, whereas XML is explicitly built to bitch at you about everything.
[04:43] jerrysv: hij1nx: awesome. xcode reinstall, custom build, or just moving to a vm?
[04:43] dexter_e: possible. 
[04:44] hij1nx: dexter_e: i'll private message you so that we don't flood the noderoom
[04:44] hij1nx: m
[04:44] dexter_e: hij1nx: Thanks!
[04:44] AAA_awright: Nuck: I'm presuming that invalid XML is an oxymoron, since it's not XML
[04:44] Nuck: AAA_awright: Invalid XML means somebody tried to do XML but fucked up ;)
[04:44] AAA_awright: Right
[04:45] Nuck: Invalid HTML is the same
[04:45] jerrysv: hij1nx: and any more thoughts re: ab?
[04:45] Nuck: But Invalid HTML just gets kicked to tag soup
[04:45] Nuck: And it's very lax
[04:45] Nuck: IT's the difference between the JSLint subset of JS and normal JS
[04:45] boehm has joined the channel
[04:45] Nuck: It just makes life hellish, and only makes shit easier to parse.
[04:47] tjholowaychuk: ugh
[04:48] Nuck: Ugh what I wouldn't give for somebody to make this frontend for me :(
[04:48] Nuck: It's hard to switch back and forth between coding the API and the View.
[04:48] chjj: lol nuck, i look in here 2 days ago and youre talking about how you hate writing this frontend
[04:48] chjj: look in today
[04:48] chjj: same thing ;p
[04:48] Nuck: chjj: Yup
[04:49] Nuck: This goddamn frontend :(
[04:49] Nexxy: Nuck, what are you offering?! ;3
[04:49] Nuck: Nexxy: A hug.
[04:49] Nuck: No homo
[04:49] AvianFlu: Nexxy's a chick, nuck
[04:49] AvianFlu: LOL
[04:49] Nuck: AvianFlu: LAIZ
[04:49] tbranyen: no girls in irc
[04:49] tbranyen: sorry
[04:49] Nuck: There are no girls on the internet.
[04:50] jerrysv: hoo boy
[04:50] chjj: this ^
[04:50] Nuck: Much less on IRC
[04:50] Nuck: Much less on freenode
[04:50] Nuck: Even less in a programming chat.
[04:50] raidfive has joined the channel
[04:50] Nuck: So there's a 0.0000000001% chance of that being true.
[04:50] AvianFlu: the usual joke is "there are no girls who can code", I'm surprised
[04:50] chjj: well thats not true, you just dont see them often
[04:50] Nuck: chjj: The rule of the internet is "tits or GTFO"
[04:50] jerrysv: hij1nx: how many people were there last night? how many were male? how many do javascript?
[04:50] chjj: on the interwebs
[04:51] dgathright has joined the channel
[04:51] Nuck: Therefore, as there are no tits in here, there are no girls
[04:51] chjj: maybe we should solve this problem, by making the node logo more attractive to women
[04:51] chjj: discuss
[04:51] tjholowaychuk: im pretty sure the person who invented the compiler was a lady
[04:51] Nuck: I've got a better idea
[04:51] tjholowaychuk: can't remember
[04:51] tbranyen: N ( O ) ( D ) E
[04:51] chjj: grace hopper
[04:51] Nuck: Let's make a commercial for Node
[04:51] Nuck: In the style of a commercial for women's hygeine products
[04:52] Nuck: So women dancing around, looking happy
[04:52] tbranyen: tjholowaychuk: that military chick?
[04:52] tjholowaychuk: tbranyen something like that
[04:52] tbranyen: that i learned about in college
[04:52] Nexxy: Nuck, I quite resent that
[04:52] chjj: there were also 3 really famous women programmers who did all this early punch card programming
[04:52] jerrysv: 
ACTION remembers about 15% women at jsconf, and 10% women at nodeconf

[04:52] Nexxy: not that my gender is of *any* significance
[04:52] fwg: she invented ADA
[04:52] Nexxy: but yeah.
[04:52] chjj: because node is manly and masculine
[04:52] Chani: 15%? wow
[04:53] Nuck: Nexxy: Why would you, there's a 99.9999999999% chance you're a man.
[04:53] Nuck: Duh.
[04:53] jerrysv: chani: yeah, i tried to count. my SO was one of the 15%
[04:53] Nexxy: Nuck, dismissed :)
[04:53] brainproxy: the javascript meetup in St. Louis on Thursday was a bronado :[
[04:53] Nuck: Nexxy: lol
[04:53] brainproxy: 30 guys I think no women in sight
[04:53] Nexxy: stop having your meetups in bars 
[04:54] Nuck: brainproxy: Did you have a Louise Boat?
[04:54] brainproxy: it wasn't
[04:54] Nexxy: and you might have better success with inclusion and diversity
[04:54] brainproxy: it was in a corporate office
[04:54] Nuck: Nexxy: But they hafta get drunk somehow.
[04:54] Nexxy: and then get really awkward?
[04:54] Nexxy: yaa
[04:54] Nuck: But I'm naught but 17, so I don't have room to talk about getting drunk ;)
[04:54] Nuck: Since I couldn't get in a bar anyways
[04:54] Nexxy: oh that explains it
[04:55] Chani: 
ACTION once tried to start a LUG that met in bars. :) but we were too lazy to actually meet

[04:55] jerrysv: nexxy: jsadmirers on wednesday - not even in a bar. and i can guarantee at least one woman there
[04:55] tbranyen: Chani: need to find an open bar
[04:55] Chani: I generally don't go to local meetups, though, either they're too old and stuffy, or too macho :/
[04:55] chjj: pfft, 17 year olds, always complaining about the frontend
[04:55] tbranyen: ?twss
[04:56] tbranyen: crap no thats what she said bot
[04:56] Nuck: chjj: Pssssh! I've been coding for a decade, I know how to program D:
[04:56] Nuck: tbranyen: I assume that's not on v8bot, right?
[04:56] chjj: didnt say you didnt, i say youngsters are always complainin
[04:56] tjholowaychuk: you've been programming since you were 7?
[04:56] Nuck: 
ACTION will happily configure SirRonKcuhc to be awesoemr.

[04:56] tbranyen: legos man
[04:56] chjj: ROFL
[04:56] Chani: of course, if the annoying overly-macho guys scare off the nice people, then, it's a self-perpetuating problem.
[04:57] Nuck: tjholowaychuk: Learned BASIC at 7
[04:57] Nuck: Yes
[04:57] tjholowaychuk: ballin
[04:57] chjj: tbranyen: lol, cant stop laughing
[04:57] Nuck: I still have the CD of the computer game that taught me vanilla basic.
[04:57] tbranyen: chjj: woot :D
[04:57] tjholowaychuk: i didnt really start until 21
[04:57] Nuck: Learn to Program Basic from Interplay.
[04:57] Chani: theoreticaly I should start a meetup froup and insist that people not be jerks. but, that sounds like work
[04:57] Chani: and I'm being dragged off to bed :)
[04:57] tbranyen: yeah i didn't start coding till 15 and it was vb.net
[04:57] Nuck: (who, I might add, also made Fallout 1 & 2)
[04:57] tbranyen: fawk
[04:57] tjholowaychuk: Nuck old fallout was sweet
[04:57] tjholowaychuk: new fallout sucks
[04:58] Nuck: I learned BASIC at 7, dabbled in Perl at 11, PHP at 12, and learned the basics of SQL then too
[04:58] Nuck: Dabbled in JS for a while
[04:58] Nuck: Got into Mootools
[04:58] Nuck: Then I stopped for a few years
[04:58] mscdex: qb64!
[04:58] tbranyen: i tried playing old fallout, could not get into it
[04:58] tbranyen: new fallout is too good
[04:58] tbranyen: >_<
[04:58] tjholowaychuk: no way!
[04:58] tjholowaychuk: bethesda does NOT know how to animate anything
[04:58] tjholowaychuk: ever
[04:58] AvianFlu: new fallout is post-nuclear oblivion
[04:58] tjholowaychuk: i have no clue what's wrong with the people they hire
[04:58] AvianFlu: old fallout was just a different game
[04:58] jerrysv: and on that note, i feel really old, so good night
[04:58] mscdex: psh fancy games ain't got nothin' on zzt
[04:58] jesusabdullah: Fallouts 3 and New Vegas were great
[04:59] chjj: i hate feeling old and im only 22 =/
[04:59] jesusabdullah: I say this as a fan of the older fallout games
[04:59] Nuck: When I was 15, I got dragged into coding a wordpress site for a manga scanlation group, and got back into PHP and JS then.
[04:59] tjholowaychuk: grim fandango is where it's at
[04:59] tbranyen: chjj: i kind of want to skip my next birthday
[04:59] tbranyen: fucking being 24
[04:59] jesusabdullah: I bet Grim Fandango is a good game
[04:59] mscdex: 
ACTION goes to play some ut3

[04:59] chjj: i know!
[04:59] jesusabdullah: tbranyen: Why for? I'm 24 you know
[04:59] tbranyen: jesusabdullah: because aging is retarded
[04:59] Nuck: And I stopped for a few months, got onto deviantART chat, and picked up PHP and JS and became pretty fluent in both
[05:00] Nuck: But personally, I think FAllout 3 and New Vegas needed better programmers
[05:00] tbranyen: i think i'm heading towards total epic meltdown
[05:00] Nuck: I mean, shit.  SUDDENLY, DEATHCLAW
[05:00] tjholowaychuk: mostly animators
[05:00] Nuck: Worst.  Glitch.  Ever.
[05:00] Nuck: tjholowaychuk: No, both had horrible glitches
[05:00] tjholowaychuk: i've only dabbled with animation and i could do better
[05:01] jesusabdullah: Oh, yeah, New Vegas was put out by a third party that is notorious for buggy scripting
[05:01] Nuck: The fact that if an enemy spawns just slightly out-of-place, it will fall into blue hell and cycle to the sky
[05:01] tbranyen: animate this *pulls down pants*
[05:01] Nuck: And fall to the ground
[05:01] Nuck: jesusabdullah: Well, Fallout 3 was worse
[05:01] tbranyen: weird i played fallout 3 all the way through and it was fine for me
[05:01] tbranyen: borderlands was buggy as shit
[05:01] Nuck: NPCs consistently disappeared and went to 0,0 in the current square
[05:01] tbranyen: then again i applied a shit ton of patches
[05:01] Nuck: I had to save my brother's ass with the console multiple times :P
[05:01] igl: fallout never had its own engine
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[05:01] igl: its Gamebryo
[05:02] Nuck: Interplay had some damn good programmers, though.
[05:02] igl: maybe the next games, coming with ID engines will be better now
[05:02] Nuck: And I <3 them forever for Mario Teaches Typing and Learn to Program BASIC
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[05:03] tbranyen: my buddy works at ID, seems like sweat shop
[05:03] tbranyen: i wouldn't want to work there personally
[05:03] igl: i guess they pay better though :P
[05:03] tbranyen: no they pay shit
[05:03] tbranyen: most gaming positions pay shit apparently
[05:04] tbranyen: unless you are a lead director or some equally asinine title
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[05:04] AAA_awright: I'm trying to keep a time series with points at arbirtarary times, what's the database I should look at?
[05:04] AAA_awright: Can Redis sort keys?
[05:04] Nuck: AAA_awright: Are you looking to log?
[05:04] Nuck: If so, Mongo is pretty damn good for logging.
[05:04] AAA_awright: A single point
[05:05] Nuck: But I imagine Redis would work too
[05:05] Nuck: Though IDK if it can sort
[05:05] AAA_awright: Say, the Bitcoin/USD exchange
[05:05] guidocalvano has joined the channel
[05:05] AAA_awright: Well specifically, listener count for an Internet radio station, log every time the listener count changes.
[05:06] Nuck: AAA_awright: Mongo auto-timestamps
[05:06] Nuck: It's built into the ObjectId
[05:06] Pickley has joined the channel
[05:06] AAA_awright: Is there a function to extract it?
[05:06] AAA_awright: Nuck: I need to index that to and filter by date
[05:07] AAA_awright: I want to have a real-time plot of this time series for the last week
[05:07] AAA_awright: Well more like last day
[05:07] igl: oh wow, amy winehouse died (tbh i almost thought someone hacked the sun again)
[05:07] Nexxy: LOL
[05:07] Nexxy: hwo is that a surprise?
[05:08] Nuck: igl: Did you hear about her Neighbors?
[05:08] Nuck: apparently they heard a rhythmic pounding and something like a howl/scream
[05:08] rurufufuss has joined the channel
[05:08] Nuck: They called the cops
[05:09] Nuck: So it's assumed she was doing some kinky sex lol
[05:09] Nuck: Who wuld fuck Amy Winehouse?
[05:10] Nuck: AAA_awright: The Mongo site says all drivers have ways to extract the timestamp
[05:10] Nexxy: Nuck, talk less
[05:11] Pickley: Should I replace Nuck :P
[05:11] Nuck: Pickley: WAT WHEN DID YOU JOIN GTFOBITCH
[05:11] Nuck: oh
[05:11] Pickley: Nuck: A while back :P
[05:11] Nuck: I see the timestamp
[05:11] Nuck: Pickley: So, what brings you to these parts?
[05:11] Pickley: Nothing?
[05:12] Nuck: Pickley: suuuuuuuuure.
[05:12] Nuck: Stalker.
[05:12] Pickley: I accidently opened Colloquy instead of Coda
[05:12] Nuck: ah lol
[05:12] Pickley: Spotlight said no to Coda
[05:12] Nuck: spotlight?
[05:12] _jhs has joined the channel
[05:12] Pickley: yeah OSX Spotlight
[05:12] Nuck: PickleyThat's the funky search thingy, right?
[05:12] Pickley: yup
[05:13] Nuck: Pickley: You came in at an awkward time...
[05:14] Pickley: How
[05:14] Nuck: The mention of Amy Winehouse fucking.
[05:14] Pickley: ah yeah
[05:14] dherman has joined the channel
[05:15] Nuck: Pickley: But GTFO back to dAmnU :grump:
[05:15] kakamba has joined the channel
[05:15] Pickley: lol why dAmnU?
[05:15] Pickley: its dead?
[05:15] Nuck: Pickley: it is?
[05:16] Pickley: Well currently?
[05:16] Nuck: oh lol
[05:16] Nuck: Pickley: Well that's your problem not mine.
[05:16] Pickley has left the channel
[05:18] Nuck: 0.0000000001% of a lady and gentlemen, that is the mobile dev for Fakooda, the art site I'm working on :D
[05:22] Nexxy: 
ACTION sighs

[05:22] tbranyen: i should have eaten food
[05:22] Nexxy: so original, so witty
[05:22] tbranyen: today
[05:22] tbranyen: that was a mistake
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[05:29] sammmy: wtf is the point of a coroutine?
[05:30] Nuck: Good question.  Have you tried asking God?
[05:31] sammmy: Why would I need to do that?
[05:31] Nuck: IUNO
[05:31] sammmy: God doesn't exist
[05:31] sammmy: :o
[05:32] sammmy: anyway. You got a function that stops somewhere in the middle and the continues in the stack below it, and then at some point in the future returns back into the funciton...makes no fucking sense.
[05:33] tar_: sammmy: it lets you wait on an event with sequential-style code
[05:33] tbranyen: to the untrained mind
[05:34] Nuck: sammmy... My head hurts now more than it did when I first learned Node.
[05:34] sammmy: tar_: fuck sequential-style, this is what callbacks are for.
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[05:34] tbranyen: sammmy: what you just described sounds like a callback
[05:34] sammmy: Nuck: thankfully, afaik, Node doesn't have coroutines
[05:34] tbranyen: function() { ... callback(function() { ... }); ... }
[05:35] tar_: without that third ...
[05:35] systemfault: sammmy: Lookup for "yield" for mozilla's implementation of javascript
[05:35] tar_: unless I'm misreading your intention
[05:35] tbranyen: tar_: i'm just reading what sammy wrote
[05:35] tbranyen: thats how i interpreted it
[05:36] sammmy: tbranyen: no. What I described is insanity. What you thought I described was: You have a function that returns to the stack below it (like normal), and then that stack continues until it hits another function in which it jumps into, and eventually that will return back to the outer stack (like normal).
[05:36] tbranyen: no its not
[05:36] sammmy: I guess when I say stack "below" I mean the outer function scope (I'm assuming that a stack is a bottom-up kind of thing)
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[05:37] tbranyen: that middle function may or may-not be synchronous
[05:37] tbranyen: you can very well skip right over it and not get a return value
[05:38] sammmy: wait what. All functions that I'm aware of stop execution and are synchronous, unless I'm confused.
[05:38] tbranyen: you are very confused
[05:38] sammmy: tbranyen: then give me an example.
[05:39] tbranyen: function read() { var data = ''; console.log(data); fs.readFile('/some/file', function(err,data) { data=data.toString(); }); console.log(data); }
[05:39] tbranyen: logs '' and then '' again
[05:39] sammmy: hang on. I have to drain the main vain.
[05:40] tbranyen: same
[05:40] shanebo: seems like i've heard this conversation before ;)
[05:40] tar_: Well, I don't.
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[05:42] sammmy: back
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[05:43] sammmy: tbranyen: are you talking about the anonymous function is passed over? If so, then that's because it's not called.
[05:45] sammmy: sure the anonymous function is asynchronous, because it's not being called until .readFile decides to call it. My point is that all functions calls are synchronous in JS, if they weren't JS would be a very confusing language.
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[05:46] Nuck: sammmy: You're very wrong.
[05:46] Nuck: sammmy: Node.js has asynchronous shit
[05:46] Nexxy: sammmy, embrace the callback
[05:46] sammmy: You guys are missing my point
[05:46] tar_: he likes callbacks; he doesn't like coroutines
[05:46] sammmy: I'm talking about _function calls_
[05:46] systemfault: sammmy: I think you missed it.
[05:47] sammmy: not _functions_
[05:47] systemfault: sammmy: I told you to lookup for the "yield" keyword...
[05:47] systemfault: It will show you how it works.
[05:47] sammmy: somefunction(); someotherfunction();... someotherfunction waits until somefunction returns, am I wrong?
[05:48] systemfault: No, it's not that.
[05:48] Nuck: sammmy: Maybe, maybe not.
[05:48] systemfault: sammmy: Check that https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript/Guide/Iterators_and_Generators
[05:48] Nuck: sammmy: If somefunction is asynchronous, it might still be running after it returns.
[05:48] sammmy: Nuck: O.o
[05:48] Nuck: So someotherfunction and somefunction will be doing work in parallel.
[05:49] Nexxy: lol
[05:49] sammmy: Hmm. How could two functions be working in parallel if JavaScript is supposed to be single threaded. Or, does two things happening at once not necessarily mean two threads?
[05:50] Nuck: sammmy: Welcome to the asynchronous world of Node.js
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[05:50] Nuck: shanebo: Dejavu much?
[05:50] Nexxy: how exactly does a function continue working after it returns?
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[05:50] Nuck: Nexxy: Events.
[05:50] sammmy: Nexxy: exactly, it's madness.
[05:50] shanebo: Nuck, actually I thought node is async but the code is not
[05:51] Nexxy: Nuck, explain?
[05:51] sammmy: Nuck: a stored callback being executed is not the returning function "continuing".
[05:51] Nexxy: lol
[05:51] tar_: this is a weird conversation.
[05:51] Nuck: shanebo: Code is not, but I/O is.  I/O will often be nested into your code.
[05:51] shanebo: meaning the functions are still sequential but one doesn't wait until one is complete
[05:51] Nexxy: "Events." is not an answer
[05:51] sammmy: tar_: Ikr.
[05:52] Nuck: sammmy: An I/O function in Node can return immediately, but take no callback
[05:52] Nuck: It might just be a lack of any reason to wait
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[05:52] sammmy: An anonymous function is what allows JS the ability of asynchronousity, no?
[05:52] Nuck: But it still might be executed in parallel.
[05:53] sammmy: s/An anonymous function/Anonymous functions
[05:53] shanebo: Nuck I really don't think it executes in parallel. I think if there's a callback the code doesn't wait for the callback
[05:53] Nuck: sammmy: Doesn't have to be anonymous,any function will work.  But it's mostly the fact that Node.js interfaces with the system's async I/O libraries and whatnot
[05:53] systemfault: Nothing executes in parallel with JS.
[05:53] Nuck: systemfault: I/O does
[05:53] systemfault: Nuck: That's at a lower level..
[05:54] systemfault: But JS itself works with a message queue.
[05:54] Nuck: Aye, but it can make it so line order doesn't match execution order
[05:54] sammmy: Nuck: I stand corrected on that, it doesn't have to be anonymous functions. What I really meant to say was functions being data-types in JS is what allows for async.
[05:54] Nuck: Node.js is a confusing beast.
[05:55] shanebo: Nuck, right but only when there's callbacks
[05:55] Nuck: sammmy: JS itself has no async, but Node does.
[05:55] tar_: sammmy: not even that, but that's what allows it to be conveniently async
[05:55] Nuck: shanebo: If I do fs.writeFile, it still works.
[05:55] chjj: sammy: you can have callbacks in languages with out functions as first class
[05:55] chjj: see also: C
[05:55] Nuck: It'll write for as long as it needs to
[05:55] Nuck: But I don't need to check if it's error'd, so I don't do a callback.
[05:55] Nuck: (I SHOULD, but I won't)
[05:56] sammmy: The libraries and native implementations on top of JS is what is async, not JS itself.
[05:56] chjj: ...you said anonymous functions
[05:57] Nuck: sammmy: It's confusing as fuck, but things can happen as simultaneously as in any language.
[05:57] sammmy: Take setTimeout for example. It accepts a function as one of it's arguments. That function holds the code that will execute at a later time, but when it does no other JS will be running in parallel.
[05:57] Prometheus: confusing as fuck =P
[05:57] Nexxy: why don't you guys just go look it up instead of all this supposition? ;P
[05:57] tar_: There is a single system thread, but many user-space threads, and many outstanding I/O requests.
[05:57] chjj: sammy: "anonymous functions" are not what enables this capability
[05:57] sammmy: Note, that the function setTimeout takes isn't executed right away, this is how it can achieve async.
[05:57] Nuck: Any language can't overcome the fact that the system doesn't do two things at once
[05:58] systemfault: What?
[05:58] Nuck: We only get the illusion of things happening at the same time
[05:58] sammmy: chjj: I corrected my self, read on.
[05:58] Prometheus: Nuck: do you ever sleep?
[05:58] systemfault: Two CPUs can do something at the same time.
[05:58] Nuck: We are limited by the number of processors.
[05:58] chjj: Nuck: i guess youve never worked with multiple cores
[05:58] sammmy: Nuck: agreed. thank you.
[05:58] Nuck: Well yeah
[05:58] chjj: multiple contexts *can* execute at the same time
[05:58] chjj: but you need more than one cpu
[05:58] Nexxy: Prometheus, I was going to ask him a similar question, only s/sleep/think before you talk/
[05:59] Nuck: lol Nexxy
[05:59] Prometheus: Nexxy: heh, that has passed my mind before
[05:59] Nuck: Prometheus: And I do sleep, from about 4:30AM Pacific to 2PM :P
[05:59] tar_: fail fast, fail often!
[06:00] Nuck: tar_: Failure is not an option :P
[06:00] Prometheus: Nuck: alright, just checking
[06:00] tar_: :D
[06:00] Nuck: Prometheus: Debating switching to powernaps
[06:00] Prometheus: Nexxy: I believe the technical term is opinionated
[06:00] Nuck: Yeah, that about sums me up.
[06:00] Prometheus: Nuck: powernaps kill your brain
[06:00] Nuck: Prometheus: Howso?
[06:00] Prometheus: well, if you do that instead of sleep
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[06:01] Prometheus: there's plenty of scientific research to back that up too, if you care to read up on it =)
[06:01] tar_: you just need to learn to nap asynchronously.
[06:01] Prometheus: tar_: you will be napping asynchronously after a while
[06:01] shimondoodkin has left the channel
[06:01] Prometheus: whether you wanted it or not
[06:01] shimondoodkin has joined the channel
[06:02] Nuck: Prometheus: Well my idea is to use it to slowly make my body change to get more out of my sleep time.
[06:02] tar_: preferably on my second core
[06:02] Nuck: And then I can sleep in like 4-hours a night
[06:02] Prometheus: Nuck: I hear insomnia helps
[06:02] Prometheus: with that
[06:02] Nuck: lol
[06:02] Nuck: I'm just a nightowl
[06:03] Nuck: And my family is on a normal schedule
[06:03] chjj: i used to nap, now i just dont sleep, works better
[06:03] sammmy: I power napped all day today. Donno what's wrong with me. :\
[06:03] Nuck: So I'd like to have a way to stay on my own schedule without fucking up my family's sechdules.
[06:04] chjj: leave your family
[06:04] chjj: !
[06:04] Nuck: Plus if I'm gonna be a CEO
[06:04] tar_: you just need to learn to communicate with your family asynchronously.
[06:04] Nuck: I'm gonna need to be there when everyone else is
[06:04] Nuck: tar_: I've tried :P
[06:05] tar_: you just need to learn to try asynchronously.
[06:05] sammmy: anyway. maybe I'm crazy, but I like callbacks more than synchronous coroutine stuff. :\
[06:05] jesusabdullah: Me too, maan
[06:05] jesusabdullah: Me too
[06:05] Nuck: callbacks are awesome
[06:05] sammmy: haha
[06:06] systemfault: sammmy: WTF.
[06:06] systemfault: sammmy: You like Apples more than Motorcycles?
[06:06] tar_: when I want a custom thread scheduler, coroutines make it pretty easy.
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[06:06] hij1nx: systemfault: ??
[06:06] sammmy: however, anonymous functions in JS are why, I think, most people get nousious with callbacks. :\
[06:06] hij1nx: systemfault: apples to motorcycles? hehe
[06:06] systemfault: hij1nx: He's comparing coroutines to callbacks.
[06:06] Nexxy: Prometheus, opinionated indicates that you know what you're talking about ;P
[06:06] sammmy: systemfault: well, yes actually. But that's irrelevant.
[06:07] hij1nx: systemfault: i'm not sure that's analogous
[06:08] systemfault: hij1nx: They can't be compared.
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[06:10] AAA_awright: And, wtf is this about http://nodejs.org/cla.html Can we drop the legal nonsense from Node.js please?
[06:10] tar_: at least, not at the level sammmy was describing them. But you can easily compare { ...; wait_for(asyncOp); ...; } and { ...; asyncOp(function() { ... }); }
[06:10] sammmy: maybe I don't know what a coroutine is, and my head is all fucked up with the concept. But, what I was reading online, that it's a certain kind of function that can yield execution, returning to the outer scope for execution, then at some point continue executing.
[06:10] systemfault: AAA_awright: Pretty much any big company has a damn CLA :/
[06:10] systemfault: hmm
[06:10] systemfault: s/big//
[06:11] chjj: AAA_awright: its just what happens when the suits get involved
[06:11] Nexxy: AAA_awright, I don't see where the "nonsense" comes in
[06:11] chjj: i dont think its a problem
[06:11] Prometheus: Nexxy: not necessarily =)
[06:11] AAA_awright: Nexxy: It's FUD, therefore, nonsense
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[06:11] systemfault: sammmy: Yes, very useful for generators
[06:11] Nexxy: AAA_awright, I thought FUD meant "fear, uncertainty, and doubt"
[06:11] AAA_awright: Yep.
[06:11] Nexxy: all I see is a contract that specifically states who owns what
[06:12] hij1nx: AAA_awright: if you don't have that agreement, it will be difficult for joyent to function in a leadership role or as a benefactor of the project
[06:12] Nuck: AAA_awright: That CLA protects Node.js from getting their asses in trouble.
[06:12] AAA_awright: I'm sorry, this is software, since when is that owned?
[06:12] Nexxy: lol
[06:12] systemfault: AAA_awright: Welcome in the real world.
[06:12] systemfault: AAA_awright: I'm from planet earth, where are you from?
[06:12] Nuck: AAA_awright: Please tell me that was sarcastic?
[06:12] AAA_awright: hij1nx: Newsflash, I have Node.js forked on Github, and so do a lot of people
[06:13] hij1nx: AAA_awright: its MIT
[06:13] hij1nx: AAA_awright: that's what we want
[06:13] Nuck: AAA_awright: Forking is fint
[06:13] Nuck: It's just the pull requests that need that agreement.
[06:13] hij1nx: AAA_awright: javascript party =)
[06:13] Nuck: So they don't get in trouble :)
[06:14] AAA_awright: So then why do the approved developers want a CLA to merge changes into their blessed repository?
[06:14] Nuck: AAA_awright: Nobody wants Joyent to get in trouble for anything that somebody might've stolen.
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[06:14] chjj: if were going to bikeshed, can we please bikeshed about the logo?
[06:14] Nexxy: rofl
[06:14] Nexxy: chjj++
[06:14] catb0t: chjj now has 1 beer
[06:14] SirRonKcuhc:  Nexxy has given a beer to chjj. chjj now has 1 beers.
[06:14] systemfault: chjj: haha
[06:14] systemfault: chjj++
[06:14] SirRonKcuhc:  chjj is getting too many beers.  Don't let chjj get drunk!
[06:14] catb0t: chjj now has 2 beers
[06:14] AAA_awright: We don't care about the logo
[06:14] AAA_awright: The color scheme on the other hand...
[06:15] AAA_awright: We = i
[06:15] Nuck: AAA_awright: I prefered the old logo too
[06:15] hij1nx: +1
[06:15] Nuck: But the cholor scheme is far worse
[06:15] hij1nx: but the new one is fine too
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[06:15] Nuck: hij1nx: It's shit brown and diahrea green.
[06:15] hij1nx: hehe
[06:15] AAA_awright: ^
[06:16] tar_: dirt brown and grass green
[06:16] chrisdickinson: AAA_awright: yeah, was disappointed node didn't officially adopt #ff00ff
[06:16] hij1nx: tar_: +1
[06:16] AAA_awright: I'm not quite willing to say welcome to 1997, but...
[06:16] AAA_awright: It's... getting there
[06:16] Nexxy: is today liek
[06:16] systemfault: Only missing frames
[06:16] systemfault: And .midi music in the background
[06:16] Nexxy: #Node.js Mysanthrope Anonymous
[06:17] hij1nx: .midi music would be sick. its kinda retro-modern
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[06:17] shanebo: you guys are nuts. the new logotype is extremely well done
[06:17] tar_: yes, MIDI please. and frames.
[06:17] chjj: i would love it if it looked like a geocities site from the late 90s
[06:17] chjj: midi music, amazing
[06:17] Nuck: shanebo: It's well-done, but it looks like shit.
[06:17] chjj: and the sparkle that follows the mouse cursor
[06:17] Nuck: But the work on it is nice
[06:17] hij1nx: shanebo: no one agrees on this subject.
[06:18] tar_: is there any way we could put the current page on geocities in the late 90s.
[06:18] systemfault: Ahhh wait, don't forget the lake java applet on the logo 
[06:18] chjj: hahaha
[06:18] sammmy: systemfault: required for generators. But why use a generator when you could just seperate your code between the yields into callbacks or something like that?
[06:18] igl: shanebo: technically well made
[06:18] shanebo: I reckon the folks who hate it, hate anything that doesn't have a cloud in it with lens flares, drop shadows, gradients, and rainbows
[06:19] systemfault: sammmy: Check examples on the net, it's a lot more elegant.
[06:19] Nuck: -lens flares -rainbows
[06:19] Nuck: gradients, drop shadows, clouds
[06:19] Nuck: Especially the first two.
[06:19] Nuck: 
ACTION <3s gradients and drop shadows

[06:19] systemfault: And... seriously... the worst problem... NOT ENOUGH UNICORNS
[06:19] chjj: https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Logos
[06:19] Nuck: systemfault: NEEDS MORE CORNIFY
[06:19] chjj: the logos in the middle are nice imo
[06:19] chjj: plus the turtle logo
[06:20] hij1nx: sammmy: i like callbacks. less sugar and gets the job done.
[06:20] Nuck: I like SubStac k's drawing :P
[06:20] AAA_awright: Nuck: That doesn't even make any sense, that's exactly why Git has Author name, email, and date, separate from committer name, email, and date, and that's what --signoff is for
[06:20] chrisdickinson: shanebo: its well executed, but it just doesn't have the right character.
[06:20] tar_: ...; async(function() { ...; async(function() { ...; async(function() { ...; async(function() { ...; }) }) }) });
[06:20] chjj: yeah, his other one isnt on there, its much funnier imo
[06:20] systemfault: I love that one: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-sU5IRCCxMYc/TiZsuwV0nFI/AAAAAAAAALc/dH1OxZImcJU/nodejs2.png
[06:20] systemfault: Clean and professional.
[06:20] Nuck: AAA_awright: Well, it's like the ToS for authors who want their code committed.
[06:20] sammmy: systemfault: I see the usefulness now. Good concept actually.
[06:21] chjj: systemfault: i completely agree
[06:21] Nuck: I'm gonna be putting the old logo on my Node-powered site
[06:21] chjj: systemfault: thats the one i like, i wish that were the logo
[06:21] Nuck: I think a design competition for Node would be better
[06:21] Nuck: I would happily enter.
[06:21] chjj: but nothing beats the turtle
[06:21] shanebo: that last one has potential too
[06:21] chjj: is v8 strapped to the turtle or the turtle strapped to v8?
[06:22] systemfault: The turtle is fugly... but funny
[06:22] AAA_awright: Nuck: The Linux kernel has that too, it's SubmittingPatches http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/SubmittingPatches 
[06:22] AAA_awright: The act of submitting a patch implies your agreement
[06:23] Nuck: AAA_awright: Suggest it to Joyent?
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[06:26] Nuck: AAA_awright: Just fill out the "feature requester license agreement" form and sugest it </sarcasm>
[06:26] shanebo: any of you guys use Mu?
[06:26] Nexxy: I still don't understand why people are bitching about that lol
[06:26] loob2 has joined the channel
[06:26] Nexxy: fork it and keep your contributions to yourself if you're that unwilling to be a team player
[06:26] chjj: shanebo: no but someone might be able to answer your question anyway
[06:27] Nuck: I don't do contributions
[06:27] Nuck: Because I've had no need
[06:27] Nuck: I only do JS anyways
[06:27] chjj: non-contributing bastard
[06:27] chjj: ;p
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[06:32] tar_: tar_++
[06:32] catb0t: tar_ now has 1 beer
[06:32] SirRonKcuhc: tar_: Don't cheat!  You can't give a beer to yourself.
[06:33] Nexxy: why is there a bot here named "Chucknorris" backwards?
[06:34] systemfault: Is there a annoying bot called crockford?
[06:36] AAA_awright: Nexxy: It's Node.js that's not being the team player if they're unwilling to use my code that I'm offering with open arms. Which is all public domain, btw, http://unlicense.org/
[06:37] Nexxy: I guess I don't understand legalese well enough, cuz that CLA looks liek they are saying "Yes we'd love to use your contributions, as long as no one is going to sue us for it"
[06:37] chjj: im sure their loss is unbearable
[06:37] xeodox has joined the channel
[06:37] chjj: ;p
[06:38] Nuck: Nexxy: Gee, I wonder who might own SirRonKcuhc. (hint hint)
[06:38] mytrile has joined the channel
[06:39] Nuck: SirRonKcuhc is a vanilla copy of v8bot, unlike catb0t, whose ++ only works occasionally.
[06:40] mscdex: node.js rules!
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[06:42] Nuck: mscdex: No need to tell us, try #RubyOnRails
[06:42] mscdex: nowai
[06:42] chjj: i like how they picked the dumbest sounding name for a framework
[06:42] rvb has joined the channel
[06:42] chjj: ROR
[06:42] chjj: ...
[06:43] Nuck: I wonder what'd happen if I went in there and started asking questions about async programming...
[06:43] mscdex: i like how it's 2:42am and i'm still awake
[06:43] Nuck: mscdex: East coast?
[06:43] mscdex: yeah
[06:43] chjj: youre an hour ahead of me
[06:44] chjj: its 1:44am and im drinking warm beer
[06:44] chjj: and its the worst
[06:44] mscdex: delicious!
[06:44] Nuck: It's 11:44 here in California, the best state ever.
[06:44] Nuck: (except Oregon)
[06:44] Nuck: Oregon whoops our ass.
[06:44] mscdex: i think that's a bit far fetched
[06:44] Nexxy: no, actually
[06:44] Nexxy: as much as I hate to say it
[06:44] Nexxy: Nuck is right
[06:44] mscdex: i knew she'd chime in
[06:45] Nuck: lol
[06:45] mscdex: :-D
[06:45] chjj: i think ill move to california
[06:45] seivan: Hmm
[06:45] chjj: sounds better than this place
[06:45] mscdex: california has silicon valley, i mean come on
[06:45] seivan: Does anyone know what module you required in order to write coffeescript and not having to compile?
[06:45] Nuck: Oregon.  No sales tax, public transit gets you anywhere, it's always beautiful outside (rainy, sure, but trees everywhere), and people pump gas for you.
[06:46] mscdex: silicon valley is actually doing better in this recession than everywhere else
[06:46] chjj: seivan: its better to accept the fact that youre compiling to a high level language
[06:46] Nuck: California.  Average to high sales tax, public transit won't do shit for you, it's always too fucking hot, and people are just assholes to you.
[06:46] Nuck: mscdex: Portland, OR is barely hit.
[06:46] Nexxy: Nuck, you don't even drive
[06:46] shanebo: California may be the greatest state, but Texas is the greatest country.
[06:46] mscdex: heh
[06:46] seivan: chjj: I am alright with coffeescript
[06:46] chjj: yeah, nuck is like 10 or something
[06:46] Nuck: shanebo: Yeah, for rednecks
[06:46] mscdex: Texa$
[06:46] Nuck: chjj: lolno
[06:47] seivan: No one remembers?
[06:47] seivan: There was this module you could require in order to write coffeescript without having to watch/compile
[06:47] Nexxy: seivan, supervisor?
[06:47] mscdex: eh?
[06:47] Nuck: But the only reason I can't drive is because my brother is bipolar and would throw a hissy-fit if I got my license before him.
[06:47] mscdex: coffeescript is compiled to js at some point....
[06:47] materialdesigner: seivan: 
[06:48] seivan: "hissy-fit"
[06:48] seivan: :D
[06:48] materialdesigner: just use coffee --watch
[06:48] mscdex: whether you do it manually or implicitly
[06:48] Nuck: I could probably learn to drive within a month.
[06:48] seivan: materialdesigner: fair enough
[06:48] chjj: what the hell, so you cater to his bipolarity?
[06:48] seivan: But I still like the name
[06:48] Nexxy: hit a pedestrian within 5 weeks
[06:48] mscdex: gta.js
[06:48] materialdesigner: you may also be able to write a Cakefile?
[06:48] Nuck: chjj: (1) he's way bigger than me (2) he's way older than me (3) he's way angrier than me.
[06:48] visudo has joined the channel
[06:49] mscdex: but does he know node.js?
[06:49] Nuck: No
[06:49] mscdex: there you go then
[06:49] Nuck: Because he's not a programmer
[06:49] Nuck: He's a webcomic artist
[06:49] Nuck: Which basically means he's gonna forever live on ramen.
[06:49] chjj: so youre afraid of getting your drivers license because a webcomic artist intimidates you?
[06:49] systemfault: Ramen are good
[06:49] chjj: is that right?
[06:49] seivan: hkk
[06:49] seivan: alright
[06:50] seivan: Express + Coffeekup 
[06:50] Nuck: chjj: He's 23, I'm 17.  He's got the upper-hand.
[06:50] seivan: + stylus
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[06:50] mscdex: darn younguns
[06:50] Nexxy: LOL
[06:50] Nexxy: "webcomic artist" that's great
[06:50] Nexxy: when I was still growing up
[06:50] Nexxy: we called that being a "man-child"
[06:50] mscdex: you're not still growing?
[06:50] Nexxy: or "late bloomer"
[06:50] Nexxy: parts of me are ;P
[06:50] mscdex: hah
[06:51] Nexxy: OH-HO-HO
[06:51] Nuck: How is that being a man-child?
[06:51] chjj: so get it, lose a fight, he cant take your license away, damn youre 17 arent you gonna leave so anyway
[06:51] Nuck: chjj: Once I have a company, I want to move to the bay area and whatnot.
[06:51] mscdex: you can get your license at 17 in california or oregon or wherever the heck you are?
[06:51] Nuck: I'll probably be out of this house by the time he moves out
[06:51] Nuck: mscdex: Oh yeah, easily
[06:52] Nuck: But I hafta wait for my older brother to get it first
[06:52] Nuck: So he doesn't try to kill himself.
[06:52] mscdex: i figured most states were 18 nowadays except montana
[06:52] Nuck: (manic depressive = bipolar)
[06:52] Nuck: mscdex: I think we moved to that for anyone born after 1995
[06:52] Nuck: So it's phasing in soon
[06:53] chjj: 18? pretty sure its still 16 here
[06:54] Nuck: My brother is taking forever to get a goddamn license.  Why?  Because he's "too busy"
[06:54] systemfault: I'm 28... no license.
[06:54] chjj: so get yours and when he cries say you were to busy to care
[06:54] materialdesigner: Nuck: tell him to go fuck himself and say you aren't going to halt your life for his schedule
[06:54] Nexxy: too busy being a web comic artist
[06:54] cha0s has joined the channel
[06:54] Nexxy: lol
[06:54] cha0s has joined the channel
[06:54] mscdex: does he work for xkcd?
[06:55] Nuck: materialdesigner: I'd love to, but my mom would never agree :(
[06:55] Nuck: mscdex: No lol
[06:55] Nuck: HE's actually a damn good artist
[06:55] Nexxy: just admit that you're too scared to do the driving test
[06:55] chjj: well your mom is wrong
[06:55] chjj: rofl
[06:55] materialdesigner: you're about to be legally an adult
[06:55] chjj: reverse psychology 4tw
[06:55] Nuck: Nexxy: I'm not a scared person.
[06:55] Nexxy: there is nothing legitimately keeping you from getting your permit
[06:55] Nuck: Except my mom feels the need to cater to my brother D:
[06:55] SubStack: you don't need a car, just take a bus to the bay area
[06:55] Nexxy: Nuck, scared of "upsetting your unstable brother"
[06:56] chjj: well your mom is wrong
[06:56] SubStack: or a train
[06:56] Nuck: SubStack: That's what I think I'll probably end up doing.
[06:56] mscdex: all this mom talk
[06:56] SubStack: I hate cars.
[06:56] Nuck: Once I have more savings, I want to.
[06:56] Nexxy: careful, mscdex is getting aroused
[06:56] chjj: is your brother as good an artist as substack?
[06:56] Nuck: Current savings.... About $1200-1500?
[06:56] chjj: i bet substack would own him at drawing turtles
[06:56] materialdesigner: SubStack: why do you hate cars?
[06:56] materialdesigner: and rockets
[06:56] azeroth__ has joined the channel
[06:56] chjj: and turtles with rockets strapped to their backs
[06:56] Nuck: chjj: I'd say better.  My brother just takes forever to draw.
[06:57] Nuck: But it's damn good.
[06:57] materialdesigner: and ryan in royal regalia
[06:57] chjj: if he cant draw a turtle with a v8 rocket strapped to its back, hes nothing
[06:57] Nuck: He's obsessive.
[06:57] SubStack: materialdesigner: cars are expensive, require lots of maintenence, and I hate driving
[06:57] Nuck: chjj: If I paid him to do it, he would.
[06:57] Nuck: SubStack: Do you have a license?
[06:57] materialdesigner: where are you from originally, SubStack ? a place that doesn't need a car to get around?
[06:57] chjj: i wish i lived in one of those places
[06:57] SubStack: materialdesigner: I'm not from anywhere
[06:57] mscdex: Nuck: 1. Get license, 2. Create startup, 3. ???, 4. Profit!
[06:57] SubStack: I just appeared one day
[06:58] Nuck: Isn't there some rule that you hafta have insurance if you have a license, even without a car?
[06:58] materialdesigner: sprung from the mind of Zeus?
[06:58] Nuck: mscdex: Flip #1 and #3 ;)
[06:58] vikstrous has joined the channel
[06:58] Nuck: Wait, no flip #1 to the end, and shift the others up
[06:58] mscdex: Nuck: you can't profit from getting a license
[06:58] mscdex: heh
[06:58] Nexxy: tell that to pizza delivery drivers
[06:59] Nexxy: or medical transporters!
[06:59] mscdex: Nexxy: that's going far and beyond simply getting a license
[06:59] Nexxy: sell it to an "undocumented citizen"
[06:59] Nexxy: instant profit
[06:59] Nuck: v8: var a = ['get license','create startup','???','profit']; a.push(a.shift());
[06:59] SirRonKcuhc: Nuck: 4
[06:59] Nuck: ... riiiiiiight
[06:59] Nuck: v8: var a = ['get license','create startup','???','profit']; a.push(a.shift()); a
[06:59] SirRonKcuhc: Nuck: ["create startup", "???", "profit", "get license"]
[06:59] Nuck: Fix'd.
[06:59] mscdex: .. riiiiiiiiiiight
[06:59] catb0t: ReferenceError: riiiiiiiiiiight is not defined
[06:59] mscdex: :-D
[07:00] mscdex: i want v8bot back
[07:00] chjj: me too
[07:00] seivan has joined the channel
[07:00] mscdex: we should start a petition
[07:00] Nexxy: pandaboard ;/
[07:00] mscdex: eh?
[07:00] Nuck: mscdex: So do I, but I just grabbed a copy off github and fired it up as SirRonKcuhc.
[07:00] Nexxy: grrrr, pandaboard.
[07:01] mscdex: Nexxy: what about?
[07:01] Nuck: Vanilla v8bot right there.
[07:01] mscdex: Nuck: it's just not the same
[07:01] seivan: How would one use coffeekup in express?
[07:01] chjj: it really is not the same
[07:01] Nexxy: mscdex, still waiting for mine
[07:01] chjj: mscdex is right
[07:01] seivan:   app.set('view engine', 'coffeekup'); doesn't seem to do it
[07:01] alexhq has joined the channel
[07:01] Nexxy: svtronics has 12 in stock finally
[07:01] Nexxy: I'm tempted to buy them all
[07:01] Nuck: Is v8bot registered?
[07:01] mscdex: Nexxy: still waiting? you ordered already? from who?
[07:01] Nuck: If not, I'm more than happy to host it.
[07:01] Nexxy: mscdex, no, they were out of stock forever
[07:01] Nexxy: just checked today and there are 12
[07:02] chjj: do it, but you gotta get the particular commit the old one was
[07:02] seivan: app.register '.coffee', require('coffeekup')
[07:02] seivan: app.set 'view engine', 'coffee'
[07:02] jesusabdullah: What is this Nexxy ?
[07:02] Nexxy: jesusabdullah, the most amazing thing ever!
[07:02] Nexxy: http://svtronics.com/panda_board
[07:02] Nuck: chjj: Waht changed btween then and now?
[07:02] chjj: and it has to be named v8bot or some variation thereof
[07:02] Nuck: `v commands
[07:02] SirRonKcuhc: Nuck: Commands: Type `v <command>.  Optionally, type `v <command> @ <nick> to send to a specific user. 				`v Commands are: about, beers, commands, git, google, help, macro. Other commands: v8, `re, `pcre, `ref.  Type `v help <command> for more information.  Join #v8bot for more support.
[07:02] mscdex: Nexxy: oh, when i bought mine i actually sent an email to svtronics first, asking if they had any in stock
[07:02] chjj: i have no idea
[07:02] mscdex: Nexxy: they said they did, so i promptly ordered
[07:02] chjj: im just saying, i want it to be the same whatever it is
[07:02] Nuck: chjj: v8butt or v8boot?
[07:02] mscdex: Nexxy: got it within a matter of days
[07:02] Nexxy: mscdex, does it come with the AC Adapter
[07:02] jesusabdullah: Oh! That looks pretty boss
[07:02] Nexxy: or do I really have to buy it separately?
[07:03] chjj: something that sounds like it *wasnt* named by a 17 year old
[07:03] jesusabdullah: Reminds me of the beagleboard
[07:03] Nuck: lol
[07:03] chjj: :)
[07:03] jesusabdullah: Hell, might be beagleboard 2.0 for all I know
[07:03] Nexxy: jesusabdullah, ya it is beagleboard++
[07:03] jesusabdullah: ah!
[07:03] Nexxy: chjj++
[07:03] SirRonKcuhc:  Nexxy has given a beer to chjj. chjj now has 2 beers.
[07:03] catb0t: chjj now has 3 beers
[07:03] jesusabdullah: Then it IS awesome!
[07:03] mscdex: Nexxy: no, separate. but iirc you can power the board over usb otg if you have the cable
[07:03] jesusabdullah: I want one.
[07:03] mscdex: just like the beagleboard
[07:03] Nexxy: well
[07:03] Nexxy: it's going to power a kiosk
[07:03] Nexxy: sooo
[07:03] Nexxy: AC adapter it is
[07:03] mscdex: heh
[07:03] Nuck: chjj: Make me a name and I'll happily figure shit out ;)
[07:03] Nuck: I already host 3 bots on deviantART chat
[07:03] Nuck: On  home server
[07:03] Nuck: So it's always running
[07:04] mscdex: Nexxy: i think i ordered my ac adapter from digikey
[07:04] chjj: how about v8b, v8_, v8`, v8bot`, etc
[07:04] anaio has joined the channel
[07:04] Nexxy: mscdex, do you know the inner/outer diameter and voltage on the adapter?
[07:04] Nuck: v9bot
[07:04] Nuck: lol
[07:04] jesusabdullah: Nexxy: What kinda kiosk is this all for?
[07:04] jesusabdullah: :o
[07:04] Nexxy: lol
[07:04] chjj: v8_bot
[07:04] Nexxy: uhm
[07:04] Nexxy: I can't really say...
[07:04] medice: void
[07:05] mscdex: Nexxy: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=993-1019-ND&site=us&lang=en
[07:05] Nexxy: but I'ma be releasing the kiosk platform
[07:05] mscdex: Nexxy: i'd have to go measure the barrel
[07:05] Nexxy: after I'm satisfied with it
[07:05] Nuck: chjj: v8bot_
[07:05] chjj: sure why not
[07:05] Nuck: It's not registered, just checked.
[07:05] xeodox has joined the channel
[07:05] Nuck: chjj: What's the difference on the commit?
[07:06] Nexxy: mscdex, digikey's adapters are big and expensive!
[07:06] chjj: i have no idea, im just saying whatever it was, it should be the same
[07:06] chjj: when was last commit?
[07:06] Nexxy: mscdex, https://specialcomp.com/pandaboard/order.htm
[07:06] Nuck: There any way to register a nick without switching nicks?
[07:07] systemfault: Nuck: What do you mean?
[07:07] Nuck: systemfault: Meh, nevermind, I'll leave it unregistered
[07:07] systemfault: Hmm, if that's what I think... you can link more than a single nick to an account.
[07:07] systemfault: So you can switch between the nicks
[07:07] Nuck: 
ACTION pulls up screen on his home server

[07:07] systemfault: irssi+screen+ssh ftw
[07:07] Nuck: systemfault: Nah, I was thinking of registering my bot but w/e
[07:08] chjj: doesnt matter, not like anyones gonna take it
[07:08] Nexxy: just /ns group after you identify to the original nick
[07:09] Nuck: starting up now
[07:09] Nuck: Man this thing is slow to start up
[07:09] v8bot_ has joined the channel
[07:09] Nuck: And there we go.
[07:09] Nuck: Happier?
[07:10] mscdex: Nexxy: the barrel is about 0.5cm in diameter and 2mm inside
[07:10] Nuck: Hope you guys like it :D
[07:10] chjj: v8: ''
[07:10] v8bot_: chjj: ""
[07:10] Nexxy: mscdex, d'awww... thanks for checking for me <3
[07:10] chjj: good
[07:10] mscdex: Nexxy: yeah, specialcomp's site was out of stock for the ac adapter at the time i bought my board
[07:10] Nexxy: ohh oki
[07:10] Nexxy: and obv. I will need some SDHC card
[07:10] Nexxy: for storage
[07:10] Nexxy: ya?
[07:10] Nuck: chjj: I just did git clone and pulled the master lol
[07:10] mscdex: Nexxy: pretty much
[07:11] mscdex: i'm not sure if there's a way to built-in way to boot to usb or not
[07:11] chjj: when was the last commit?
[07:11] visudo has joined the channel
[07:11] chjj: oh, last november? ha
[07:11] Nuck: chjj: lol
[07:11] chjj: k, good
[07:11] Nuck: v8bot hasn't been on in over a week
[07:11] chjj: i think were good then
[07:12] chjj: as long as its the same version
[07:12] Nuck: lol
[07:12] Nuck: If I can't help with Node's code, at least I can provide a vanilla v8bot copy :P
[07:12] SamuraiJack has joined the channel
[07:12] alexhq: Where I can find any benchmark for net module?
[07:13] Nuck: Might eventually rewrite it though
[07:13] Nexxy: Nuck, don't forget alienating other developers!
[07:13] Nuck: Because it's fucking slow.
[07:13] Nexxy: you're great at that too
[07:13] Nuck: Nexxy: SHUT UP ABOUT RUBY!
[07:13] Nuck: lol :P
[07:13] jesusabdullah: Nexxy: Word
[07:13] zer0-: Anybody use Jasmine here?
[07:13] AvianFlu: dont' worry, nuck, ruby's nowhere near as bad as you are :-P
[07:14] Nexxy: zer0-, I do quite a lot
[07:14] chjj: when did ruby come up?
[07:14] Nexxy: usually in tea
[07:14] Nuck: AvianFlu: Because I'm a bad mother fucker.
[07:14] seivan: hmm
[07:14] seivan: I am divided.... jade or coffeekup,   js or coffeescript
[07:14] seivan: >_>
[07:14] Nexxy: 
ACTION covers eyes

[07:14] chjj: ...js
[07:14] Nuck: seivan: JS.
[07:14] Prometheus: clojurescript!
[07:14] Prometheus: =P
[07:14] zer0-: Nexxy: stick with coding.. 
[07:14] Nuck: COFFEECLOSUREJS :D
[07:15] mscdex: seivan: js and ejs! ;-)
[07:15] Nuck: NINE!
[07:15] chjj: i dont see how that can even be a decision, coffeescript used to not bug me, now i hate it
[07:15] Nuck: (needed a version number)
[07:15] Nuck: chjj: Not good if something gets worse the more you deal with it D:
[07:15] chjj: my hatred progressively grew worse and worse
[07:15] seivan: Coffeescript has it's place.
[07:15] seivan: It 's quite good.
[07:15] chjj: what is its place?
[07:15] seivan: As nor being a pain to maintain and write and read
[07:16] chjj: js is a pain to write?
[07:16] Nuck: seivan: JS does the same
[07:16] chjj: nevermind, use coffeescript, sounds like you need it
[07:16] Nuck: That is, IF YOU LEARN IT.
[07:16] Nuck: LEARN JS.
[07:16] Nuck: HINT HINT.
[07:16] chjj: this ^
[07:16] seivan: right
[07:17] rileys has joined the channel
[07:17] Nuck: While I dig the idea of a layer over JS to fix the shortcomings, I disagree with changing syntax
[07:17] Nuck: I think a better setup is more like LESS --> CSS
[07:17] materialdesigner: ejs produces some of the ugliest code ever
[07:17] AvianFlu: noobs produce ugly code
[07:18] systemfault: Anyway... the way I see it, if something can fuck up JS, it's ES.next
[07:18] Nuck: Where it's the same thing as before, just with extensions.
[07:18] digman543 has joined the channel
[07:18] AvianFlu: I have yet to see a language that's always ugly
[07:18] Nuck: ES?
[07:18] systemfault: PHP
[07:18] Nuck: Perl.
[07:18] systemfault: PHP is always ugly.
[07:18] Prometheus: ^
[07:18] chjj: systemfault: yeah, agreed, i dont see why they need to even change js
[07:18] Nuck: PERL is always ugly.
[07:18] chjj: why do they feel the need to add all this overambitious shit
[07:18] mscdex: cobol is always igly
[07:18] mscdex: ugly too
[07:18] AvianFlu: no, I know a couple of really smart people who write non-shitty php code
[07:18] Nuck: I have yet to hear anyone argue that Perl isn't ugly
[07:18] AvianFlu: and perl is just voodoo that you don't know, nuck 
[07:18] Nuck: And SOME PHP can be okay.
[07:18] AvianFlu: perl is awesome
[07:18] chjj: AvianFlu: thats true, it is possible to write good code in it
[07:18] Nuck: AvianFlu: I've tried to learn Perl.
[07:19] chjj: but few do
[07:19] Nuck: But the syntax is hideous
[07:19] systemfault: chjj: I sincerely hope that ES.next with just join his brother ES4 in the garbage.
[07:19] chjj: yes
[07:19] chjj: please yes
[07:19] chjj: =(
[07:19] chjj: or
[07:19] AvianFlu: what, no C++ nuck?
[07:19] chjj: v8 will just choose not to implement it
[07:19] chjj: and all implementations boycott it
[07:19] jshaw has joined the channel
[07:19] chjj: that would be amazing
[07:19] Nuck: systemfault: ES.next?
[07:19] systemfault: Nuck: "Harmony"
[07:19] Nuck: Oh right
[07:19] Nuck: Agreed
[07:19] Nuck: Harmony sounds like total shit
[07:20] AvianFlu: perl is a really cool syntax style, it's just not as common as dots
[07:20] systemfault: JS corrupted by Javatards.
[07:20] systemfault: That's what Harmony is about.
[07:20] chjj: and if it forces v8 to implement something that slows it down, i will be ...angry
[07:20] jesusabdullah: What's harmony?
[07:20] zeade1 has joined the channel
[07:20] zer0-: isn't Ecma5 == Harmony?
[07:20] Nuck: ES5 is the best thing ever
[07:20] chjj: no
[07:20] chjj: es5 is not harmony
[07:20] Nuck: Harmony is basically ES6
[07:20] systemfault: ES5 doesn't bring that much.
[07:20] Nuck: In progress
[07:20] zer0-: aah
[07:20] random123: The only thing that could possible be uncomfortable about EJS for you is the begin and end tags to signify you are entering JavaScript... so... OCD?
[07:20] Nuck: systemfault: Naught but improvements, though.
[07:21] jesusabdullah: That's the one that's thinking about arrows right?
[07:21] chjj: technically harmony is a revision of es4, if you realized there was no es4
[07:21] systemfault: Nuck: Right.
[07:21] Nuck: It basically taks shit from our JS libs and makes it native
[07:21] chjj: because they skipped it, because they temporarily acknowledged it was shit
[07:21] jesusabdullah: oh wait, no, that's es.next or whatevs
[07:21] zer0-: there's some good shit about ES5 like added security with freezes and such
[07:21] chjj: im okay with es5
[07:21] chjj: its fine
[07:21] Nuck: ES4 existed, but it got quickly buried when they realized it was shit
[07:21] systemfault: zer0-: When was the last time you used .freeze?
[07:21] Nuck: What the fuck is a freeze?
[07:21] chjj: nuck: i just said that
[07:21] systemfault: I only like ES5 for the function additions and the strict mode.
[07:21] mscdex: .freeze et al actually slows v8 down
[07:21] mscdex: :\
[07:22] pastak_ has joined the channel
[07:22] mscdex: well, maybe not all of v8, but for accessing that object and such
[07:22] systemfault: v8: var lol = {}; Object.freeze(lol); lol.rofl = 10;
[07:22] v8bot_: systemfault: TypeError: Can't add property rofl, object is not extensible
[07:22] zer0-: systemfault: well freeze was just an example.. but things like being able to secure objects with def() is just awesome
[07:22] Nuck: I like how browsers have started to pick out "the good stuff" to implement first
[07:23] chjj: what they should have done, was standardize __proto__
[07:23] chjj: theyre stupid for not doing that
[07:23] systemfault: Nobody needs __proto__
[07:23] chjj: ridiculously stupid
[07:23] systemfault: Seriously...
[07:23] chjj: __proto__ is amazing
[07:23] systemfault: chjj: Why^
[07:23] chjj: ...
[07:23] systemfault: Heh.
[07:23] chjj: one-line inheritence for one
[07:23] systemfault: Object.create?
[07:23] chjj: thats one line?
[07:23] systemfault: That's not 10 :/
[07:24] chjj: its at least 3 unless you want to stick it on one line
[07:24] chjj: and make it look horrible
[07:24] versicolor has joined the channel
[07:24] chjj: also, defining inheritence after the instantiation of an object, thats amazingly powerful
[07:24] Nuck: All of the ES5 implemented in Mozilla so far has been good
[07:24] chjj: something that should *definitely* be in a language with prototypes
[07:24] chjj: in fact, thats the hallmark of js isnt it? dynamic objects, why shouldnt we be able to do that?
[07:25] rileys: you can already do that just by setting the prototype of the object
[07:25] chjj: we can change things after the fact
[07:25] chjj: thats the point of js oo
[07:25] chjj: rileys, no you cant
[07:26] chjj: you cannot change a single objects prototype after its created
[07:26] systemfault: I'm still wondering why Array.prototype.indexOf sucks so much because it can't take a function as argument.
[07:26] chjj: interesting, i didnt know that
[07:27] systemfault: I wonder why they didn't think we might be interested in finding other things than basic types..
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[07:28] chjj: well they didnt, because you can pass an object
[07:28] chjj: functions are merely "callable objects" as defined by ecma
[07:28] chjj: i wonder why functions are excluded there =/
[07:28] vns has joined the channel
[07:29] systemfault: Hmm
[07:29] mscdex: .. var f = function() {}, a = [f]; a.indexOf(f);
[07:29] catb0t: 130
[07:29] mscdex: :S
[07:30] chjj: or, systemfault was wrong, hehe
[07:30] rileys: its not really all that common to need to change the prototype once an instance of the object has been created though
[07:30] chjj: is that your fallback argument?
[07:30] systemfault: mscdex: it compares the reference.
[07:30] chjj: i dont care if its common, i care if its useful
[07:30] mscdex: systemfault: of course, just like a plain object
[07:31] Aiden has joined the channel
[07:31] mscdex: systemfault: that's the way it is in all of js
[07:31] chjj: and it is more common than you think, once you realize how you can use it
[07:31] systemfault: mscdex: You misunderstood me I think.
[07:31] systemfault: What I wanted it:
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[07:32] systemfault: x = [{lastName: "ninja"}, {lastName: "rofl"}]; x.indexOf(function(o) { return o.lastName = "rofl"; });
[07:32] systemfault: That would of course.. return 1
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[07:32] systemfault: Err
[07:32] mscdex: that's not how indexOf works though
[07:32] systemfault: == "rofl";
[07:32] systemfault: That's how it should work imho.
[07:33] systemfault: That's why I think that indexOf sucks.
[07:33] mscdex: well, it wouldn't know whether it's a callback or a function to look for
[07:33] systemfault: Then it should always take a function.
[07:33] systemfault: *callback
[07:33] madsleejensen has joined the channel
[07:33] mscdex: no way
[07:33] chjj: systemfault: its not a filter function
[07:33] mscdex: there's other functions to do what you want
[07:33] systemfault: chjj: I didn't want to filter it..
[07:34] systemfault: chjj: I wanted the index.
[07:34] chjj: i know, but im saying
[07:34] chjj: thats not how it works
[07:34] systemfault: Then it's not generic enough.
[07:34] chjj: it doesnt work that way, and it definitely shouldnt, otherwise you could never get the index of a function
[07:34] madsleejensen has joined the channel
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[07:36] Nuck: systemfault: Genericizing isn't always good
[07:36] mscdex: you could easily do that with Array.reduce()
[07:36] saurabhverma has joined the channel
[07:36] mscdex: or just use a for-loop
[07:37] mscdex: or write your own function heh
[07:37] systemfault: shrug...
[07:37] mscdex: or monkey patch .indexof
[07:37] mscdex: :p
[07:37] delian66 has joined the channel
[07:37] Nuck: mscdex: It's not monkey-patching if it's part of the language's features ;)
[07:37] mscdex: huh?
[07:37] Nuck: Extending prototypes is normal, right?
[07:37] chjj: but its not
[07:38] chjj: i think he meant monkey patching indexOf so it takes a callback, that is not a feature
[07:38] mscdex: you're not extending it, you're changing it's behavior
[07:38] mscdex: yeah
[07:38] Nuck: mscdex: "oh sorry I accidentally your indexOf"
[07:39] Metapony_ has joined the channel
[07:39] chjj: huh?
[07:39] mscdex: eh?
[07:42] chjj: i really with there was a String.prototype.count in js, to count the appearances of a substring
[07:42] chjj: instead of doing the hacky split way
[07:42] systemfault: hmm
[07:42] chjj: 'abcabc'.count('a')
[07:42] uptownben has joined the channel
[07:42] uptownben: hey all
[07:42] mscdex: yo
[07:43] chjj: or maybe just for a single character for speed, would be easy to implement too
[07:43] uptownben: sup. :)
[07:43] systemfault: v8: "lol lol lol lal".match(/lol/g).length;
[07:43] v8bot_: systemfault: 3
[07:43] chjj: yeah, but that will throw if theres no match at all
[07:43] systemfault: err. :/
[07:44] uptownben: I read somewhere that if I set up a node.js chat server , it would only be able to handle around 6500 connection, true?
[07:44] systemfault: v8: ("lol lol lol lal".match(/lol/g) || []).length;
[07:44] v8bot_: systemfault: 3
[07:44] systemfault: v8: ("lol lol lol lal".match(/lal/g) || []).length;
[07:44] v8bot_: systemfault: 1
[07:44] mscdex: man, ~$1800 to get an action figure of yourself
[07:44] systemfault: v8: ("lol lol lol lal".match(/lil/g) || []).length;
[07:44] v8bot_: systemfault: 0
[07:44] chjj: god thats ugly
[07:44] systemfault: Hack t3h planet!
[07:44] systemfault: :(
[07:44] jesusabdullah: Just x.map(function(o) { return o.lastname; }).indexOf("rofl")
[07:44] jesusabdullah: btw
[07:44] chjj: no thanks, split is much better at that point
[07:45] chjj: ''.split('lol').length - 1, and it doesnt throw
[07:45] systemfault: jesusabdullah: Sure... just slow :'(
[07:45] uptownben: I'm spec'ing out a project and was considering node.js , just need to get an idea of how scaleable it is..
[07:45] jesusabdullah: How so?
[07:45] chjj: jesusabdullah: i was going to say that until i realized how inefficient it was
[07:45] jesusabdullah: and how slower than any other filtering mechanism?
[07:46] mscdex: for-loop will always be fastest
[07:46] jesusabdullah: Also, I'm not huge on speed optimizations
[07:46] chjj: well first it has to map the array, and then iterate over a *new* array
[07:46] mscdex: ;-)
[07:46] jesusabdullah: Well okay, fair enough
[07:46] uptownben: thoughts?
[07:46] mscdex: uptownben: it's very scalable
[07:46] chjj: uptownben: where did you hear that, im curious
[07:47] uptownben: can you point me to some scaling docs?
[07:47] jesusabdullah: Oh, yeah, I doubt that's the case
[07:47] jesusabdullah: Plus, there are a jillion and one ways to build a chat server, even in node
[07:47] mscdex: uptownben: scaling docs?
[07:48] uptownben: yeah, like how I could se up node.js to scale
[07:48] chjj: yeah thats a huge generalization, the person saying you can only handle 6500 connections would need to know your hardware and your code pretty well
[07:48] uptownben: *set
[07:48] Druide_ has joined the channel
[07:48] jesusabdullah: There are also a jillion and one ways to make a node-based stack "web scale"
[07:48] __tosh has joined the channel
[07:48] mscdex: yeah
[07:48] chjj: 
ACTION needs more web scale

[07:48] jesusabdullah: and it's pretty similar to how you get anything *else* to be "web scale"
[07:49] Nexxy: I coulda used more web scale.
[07:49] uptownben: I was readingup on setting up node.js on ec2 and saw that 6500 number, 
[07:49] Nexxy: I've got a fever...
[07:49] chjj: give chjj more webscale please
[07:49] mscdex: uptownben: a single node process can handle quite a lot of traffic
[07:49] Nexxy: and the only prescription
[07:49] chjj: 
ACTION gives nexxy more webscale

[07:49] Nexxy: is more web scale.
[07:49] jesusabdullah: Moar of them, cache-ing, moar fasters boxorz, a mongodb
[07:49] mscdex: uptownben: but you can spawn additional node processes and load balance between them if you want
[07:49] chjj: nexxy: i read your mind
[07:49] jesusabdullah: XD
[07:50] uptownben: oh ok, so I can losd balance between them?
[07:50] mscdex: sure, why not
[07:50] mscdex: there's even modules out there for that
[07:50] uptownben: dunno, why not?
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[07:51] seivan has joined the channel
[07:51] chjj: i think ++ should give webscale instead of beers
[07:52] mscdex: i think ++ should give async karma
[07:53] stagas has joined the channel
[07:53] systemfault: Yo' mama so big, her ass is webscale.
[07:54] mscdex: Yo' mama so sync, she's slower than an Apple IIe
[07:56] Nuck: Ouuuuuch
[07:56] Nuck: mscdex++
[07:56] v8bot_:  Nuck has given a beer to mscdex. mscdex now has 1 beers.
[07:56] catb0t: mscdex now has 1 beer
[07:56] Nuck: systemfault++
[07:56] catb0t: systemfault now has 1 beer
[07:56] v8bot_:  Nuck has given a beer to systemfault. systemfault now has 1 beers.
[07:56] systemfault: Yo' mama so big, if we'd assign a uuid to every of her cells, we'd get duplicates.
[07:57] Nuck: Damnit
[07:57] Nuck: Nerd jokes.
[07:57] chjj: anyone use lubuntu?
[07:58] Nuck: chjj: On my home server
[07:58] chjj: thoughts?
[07:58] systemfault: chjj: I'm actually considering it... since the suckiness of unity and gnome 3.
[07:58] Nuck: I have ubuntu 11.04 on there
[07:58] systemfault: I haven,t tried it yet..
[07:58] Nuck: What's lubuntu?
[07:58] chjj: im thinking of installing it
[07:58] systemfault: Ubuntu + LXDE
[07:58] Nuck: ah
[07:58] chjj: heard its pretty fast
[07:58] Nuck: I dig Unity TBH
[07:59] Nuck: Just pisses me off that I can't get it over VNC
[07:59] systemfault: Nuck: Should be possible next version..
[07:59] systemfault: Nuck: Just use unity 2d :P
[07:59] Nuck: lol
[07:59] Nuck: The problem is that the screen doesn't update to VNC
[07:59] Nuck: For some reason
[07:59] systemfault: Nuck: Beause of compositing probably.
[08:00] systemfault: But with unity 2d.. it "should" in theory, work
[08:00] confoocious has joined the channel
[08:00] confoocious has joined the channel
[08:00] Nuck: systemfault: Well, I CBA to change that
[08:00] systemfault: The weird thing is that unity 2d is Qt.
[08:00] Nuck: I'm happy with SSH
[08:00] SubStack: how big are the uuids?
[08:00] SubStack: it's really easy to make collisions
[08:00] SubStack: .. var prob = 1; for (var i = 1; prob > 0.5; i++) prob *= (Math.pow(2,32)-i) / Math.pow(2,32); i
[08:01] catb0t: 1377164
[08:01] Nuck: SubStack: lol
[08:01] Nuck: It scares me that you whippped that code out so fast
[08:01] systemfault: SubStack: lol
[08:01] chjj: catb0t, i hate you
[08:01] systemfault: SubStack: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uuid#Random_UUID_probability_of_duplicates Read that.
[08:01] systemfault: SubStack: You'll understand my shitty joke after
[08:01] SubStack: there's a 50% chance of having a collision at 77164 cells with a 32-bit uuid
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[08:02] Nuck: SubStack: What're you doing up this late, don't you have a day job? lol
[08:02] jesusabdullah: This *is* his day job!
[08:03] Nuck: He gets paid to calculate hash collisions for each cell in a fat person's body?
[08:03] systemfault: To put these numbers into perspective, one's annual risk of being hit by a meteorite is estimated to be one chance in 17 billion,[29] that means the probability is about 0.00000000006 (6 × 10−11), equivalent to the odds of creating a few tens of trillions of UUIDs in a year and having one duplicate. In other words, only after generating 1 billion UUIDs every second for the next 100 years, the probability of creating just one duplicate w
[08:03] SubStack: it's not even late
[08:03] Nuck: AWESOME.
[08:03] Nuck: SubStack: It's 1 AM lol
[08:03] SubStack: I've done birthday paradox calculations before
[08:03] Nuck: For me, this is early, but for most people with jooooobs... That's another story.
[08:04] SubStack: Nuck: plus it's sunday
[08:04] SubStack: not that it means anything to me
[08:04] systemfault: So.. moral of the story... yo' mama's big.
[08:04] Nuck: fair enough
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[08:04] SubStack: 
ACTION works extra hard on the sabbath just for kicks

[08:04] Nuck: SubStack: Fuck Church, that's valuable time I could be programming, or calculating fat people hash collisions.
[08:04] SubStack: I know right?
[08:04] SubStack: fat people need those calculations
[08:05] whitman has joined the channel
[08:05] Nuck: SubStack: Yes, for when each cell becomes a separate person
[08:05] StepanKuzmin has joined the channel
[08:05] SubStack: I meant more that people with real jobs™ don't usually work on sundays
[08:05] SubStack: it's some kind of "week end" I think is the term
[08:06] Nuck: Your mom is so fat she could exhaust IPv6!
[08:06] systemfault: :P
[08:06] SubStack: for some reason the days are modulo 7 and this is meaningful to most of the planet
[08:06] Nuck: SubStack: Never understood.
[08:07] SubStack: Today is Setting Orange, the 59th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3177
[08:07] Nuck: We should invent a metric-style calendar
[08:07] jesusabdullah: No
[08:07] Nuck: And time measurement system
[08:07] kkaefer: the french republican calendar?
[08:07] SubStack: 100 days in a year
[08:07] chjj: yeah that should be easy to transition to
[08:08] jesusabdullah: Nuck: Your MOM is modulo 7
[08:08] Nuck: Yes, 100 days in a year, 10 months
[08:08] jesusabdullah: ridiculous.
[08:08] SubStack: 10 days to the week
[08:08] SubStack: and each month is 10 weeks
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[08:08] systemfault: The weight of your mom overflows an 64bits unsigned integer
[08:08] Nuck: SubStack: but then that's 1000 days to a month.
[08:08] Nuck: ER, year
[08:08] kkaefer: Nuck: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_Calendar
[08:08] chjj: and it doesnt make sense, because a year is not an arbitrary unit of time and neither is a day
[08:09] jesusabdullah: That's right!
[08:09] Nuck: chjj: Why base it on the time of rotation
[08:09] Nuck: We have electricity
[08:09] jesusabdullah: Because that's what a day *is*
[08:09] Nuck: Any time can be daytime
[08:09] SubStack: Nuck: I'm sure at some velocity it can work
[08:09] Nuck: Just flip a switch
[08:09] Nexxy: metric time?
[08:09] jesusabdullah: Also, humans evolved to rock 24hr days, or thereabouts
[08:09] Nexxy: really?
[08:10] SubStack: we live in a non-euclidean universe you know
[08:10] Nuck: Metric time sounds good
[08:10] jesusabdullah: Well, some level of metric time isn't completely silly
[08:10] Nuck: 10 units to a day
[08:10] jesusabdullah: ie, seconds, kiloseconds, megaseconds...
[08:10] kkaefer: let's invent a new measurement of time to make writing software that deals with dates even more... fun!
[08:10] SubStack: somebody can write a metric calendar for node knockout
[08:11] systemfault: We already do no?
[08:11] jesusabdullah: but we're already kinda married to the second, and there's no way the second divides the day by any factor of 10
[08:11] Nuck: decidays, centidays
[08:11] systemfault: I mean... there are more calendars in this world than gregorian..
[08:11] Nuck: Why are we married to the second?
[08:11] Nuck: Fuck seconds.
[08:11] SubStack: it's pretty shit that we can't pick and choose calendar systems
[08:12] Nuck: Fuck seconds *out of marriage*
[08:12] SubStack: society is like a RoR app
[08:12] jesusabdullah: Nuck: Scientific reasons. Pretty much everything for a very long time is going to be measured in seconds.
[08:12] liquidproof has joined the channel
[08:12] chjj: you would also have to change terminology completely, a day by definition is a single rotation of whatever planet
[08:12] jesusabdullah: they're the official SI unit after all
[08:12] chjj: you couldnt call it a day
[08:12] Nuck: jesusabdullah: You could've said the same thing about inches and feet and whatnot.
[08:12] Nuck: days can remain
[08:12] Nuck: But let's change hours, minutes, andseconds
[08:12] jesusabdullah: except that seconds have been in use, consistently, much much longer than that
[08:13] AvianFlu: I prefer to count my time in antiseconds
[08:13] Nuck: Who thought "24 subdivisions per rotation, and 60 to that, and then 60 in that"
[08:13] jesusabdullah: If you were to invent a new time-unit anyway, it would have to be pegged to something much more precise than the day
[08:13] Nuck: The day is accurate enough.
[08:13] jesusabdullah: Nuck: The babylonians, iirc. The idea is that 60 is divisible by a lot of things
[08:13] jesusabdullah: No, the day is nowhere near precise enough. It has a huge standard deviation.
[08:13] AvianFlu: the babylonians counted in base 60
[08:13] SubStack: like the speed of jimi hendrix in a swimming pool of maple syrup
[08:13] jesusabdullah: The second is now defined based on the speed of light
[08:13] jesusabdullah: That's right SubStack!
[08:14] Nuck: SubStack: YES! There's our measurement!
[08:14] vikstrous has joined the channel
[08:14] Nuck: one-tenth the time it takes jimi hendrix to swim across a 100-meter pool of pure maple syrup.
[08:14] jesusabdullah: 60 is divisible by 2,3,4,6,12 and 15
[08:14] jesusabdullah: oh, and 30
[08:14] systemfault: 20?
[08:14] jesusabdullah: 2,3,4,6,12,15,20,30
[08:14] jesusabdullah: good call
[08:15] chjj: ...and 1 and 60 ;)
[08:15] kkaefer: and 10
[08:15] jesusabdullah: and 10
[08:15] chjj: lol lets just keep adding numbers
[08:15] jesusabdullah: 1,2,3,4,6,10,12,15,20,30,60
[08:15] chjj: okay, any we forgot?
[08:15] jesusabdullah: > [1,2,3,4,6,10,12,15,20,30,60].length
[08:15] chjj: no, looks good
[08:15] jesusabdullah: v8> [1,2,3,4,6,10,12,15,20,30,60].length
[08:15] v8bot_: jesusabdullah: 11
[08:15] Nuck: wait
[08:15] Nuck: 6.6666666666666666666666
[08:15] jesusabdullah: This one goes to eleven. ^^
[08:16] chjj: why doesnt it just go to ten?
[08:16] Nuck: Dont' forget that one.
[08:16] jesusabdullah: That's not an integer
[08:16] Nuck: jesusabdullah: Who cares?
[08:16] Nuck: D:
[08:16] Nuck: Discrimination!
[08:16] SubStack: jesusabdullah: we have computers now
[08:16] Nuck: NUMERICIST!
[08:16] jesusabdullah: The entire POINT is that 60 is divisible by 11 *integers*
[08:16] random123: It is also divisible by 5
[08:16] jesusabdullah: and, back in the olden days that was a big deal
[08:16] jesusabdullah: Oh shit I forgot five
[08:16] jesusabdullah: Okay, 12 integers
[08:16] chjj: ROFL
[08:16] mscdex: labview.js
[08:16] chjj: haha
[08:16] Nuck: random123: How the fuck did people forget 5?
[08:17] chjj: how did you remember 6 point 6 repeating and not 5?
[08:17] Nuck: jesusabdullah: In the olden days duh
[08:17] chjj: that might be a better question
[08:17] mytrile has joined the channel
[08:17] Nuck: Today we liek 10
[08:17] chjj: hence us using base10
[08:17] Nuck: It's not 12 hours, it's 5 decidays.
[08:18] jesusabdullah: That's the rationale behind base 60, the 24 hr day (because 12 is also pretty good for that sorta thing), and degrees (360 has similar properties)
[08:18] Nuck: jesusabdullah: radians
[08:18] Nuck: duh
[08:18] jesusabdullah: Well yeah, radians are plenty nice
[08:18] jesusabdullah: but the babylonians weren't exactly hip with pi were they?
[08:18] Nuck: base 60?  Does anyone use it anymore?
[08:18] tayy_ has joined the channel
[08:18] jesusabdullah: They didn't even HAVE that letter
[08:18] jesusabdullah: Nuck: YOU do
[08:18] Nuck: I do?
[08:18] jesusabdullah: How many seconds in an hour?
[08:19] Nuck: jesusabdullah: 32.
[08:19] jesusabdullah: Incorrect.
[08:19] Nuck: LAIZ.
[08:19] Nuck: TIEM FLIES WHEN YOU'RE DRINKING RUM
[08:19] SamuraiJack has joined the channel
[08:19] Nuck: OR HAVING FUN
[08:19] Nuck: SHADDUP
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[08:21] framlin_: I would like to to test replacing my own small http-routing stuff with connect. I have looked a bit around, but I didn't find an overal beginners tutorial documentation wiki [...], that shows me, what I can do with connect in deatail and how I should use it. Any hints?
[08:21] jesusabdullah: v8> 3600*24
[08:21] v8bot_: jesusabdullah: 86400
[08:21] Nuck: k I need some advice on Mongo shit
[08:21] chjj: framlin_: look at the examples
[08:21] chjj: thats the best place to go imo
[08:22] Nuck: framlin_: expressjs's site has some epic examples
[08:22] jesusabdullah: v8> 60*24
[08:22] v8bot_: jesusabdullah: 1440
[08:22] Nuck: Or wait
[08:22] Nuck: Connect or Express?
[08:22] Nuck: Express is a router
[08:22] framlin_: connect
[08:22] Nuck: Connect is a MiddleWare thing
[08:22] chjj: also, dont get to attached to connect's router, it will be dropped soon, if you want it i recommend using express
[08:22] jesusabdullah: express uses connects middleware though
[08:22] Nuck: jesusabdullah: Yeah
[08:22] rachelderp: Does anyone have basic examples of encrypted two-way communication, like a chat
[08:22] jesusabdullah: encrypted?
[08:23] Nuck: framlin_: Sounds like you should use Express instead :V
[08:23] jesusabdullah: There are chats everywhere, but idk about encrypted
[08:23] framlin_: I thought, that connect is something, that gets requests and routes it through filters to providers
[08:23] rachelderp: Using node-crypto with diffie hellman key exchange or something
[08:23] jesusabdullah: hmm
[08:23] Nuck: framlin_: Huh?  Connect is a middleware lib
[08:23] framlin_: I do not look for a "WebApp-Framework" like I think express it
[08:23] framlin_: is
[08:23] Nuck: Express is a Sinatra-style routing library
[08:24] jesusabdullah: Yeah, I dunno rachelderp :/
[08:24] chjj: nuck: connect currently includes a router and has always done so
[08:24] framlin_: ah, there I should miss something
[08:24] chjj: its being dropped soon though
[08:24] Nuck: framlin_: "webapp framework"?
[08:24] rachelderp: :(
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[08:24] Nuck: Express is not really a web app framework, it is whatever you make it to be.
[08:24] chjj: framlin_: if you want the router, id recommend using express because connect is going to drop it
[08:25] Nuck: tj's just taht awesome.
[08:25] chjj: framlin_: express is also not what you think it is, its incredibly lightweight
[08:25] jesusabdullah: rachelderp: I would probably start with one of the other chat examples, then read the docs for node-crypto and layer that in with it, y'know
[08:25] framlin_: Express — A robust feature rich web development framework inspired by Sinatra
[08:25] jesusabdullah: ?
[08:25] Nuck: It's extremely lightweight.
[08:25] chjj: framlin_: its really not what you think it is, its not like other "top frameworks" for other platforms
[08:25] chjj: it doesnt include useless bloat
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[08:25] Nuck: framlin_: Trust me, it's super-lightweight
[08:26] jacobolus has joined the channel
[08:26] Nuck: All silly shit is left for Middleware to handle.
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[08:26] Nuck: It doesn't even handle postdata by default (you just include the MW for that)
[08:26] Nuck: Anyways, anyone here smart with Mongo itself?
[08:26] Nuck: I want to store artworks with sequential numerical IDs, but I'm not sure if I should override _id
[08:26] jesusabdullah: rachelderp: It might also help if I knew what you wanted to use as a transport. For example, there are socket.io examples out there
[08:26] Nuck: Or just store it as a secondary index
[08:26] jesusabdullah: rachelderp: Also, I think for some reason nowjs users loooove to build chat apps
[08:27] darshanshankar: 
ACTION awakens

[08:27] jesusabdullah: darshan could probably tell you more if nowjs sounds your speed
[08:27] framlin_: I did not have looked much at this "framework-stuff" until know, to code my own things, to see how node is working. But now, I like to have a look at this module-"tier" and I am just a bit confused, that it seem, that I have missunderstood a lot by just scanning the github-modules-page on the top ...
[08:27] darshanshankar: reading le scrollback
[08:27] chjj: framlin_: you should read some of the express code if youre skeptical
[08:28] Nuck: I just tried to read that last message
[08:28] amerine has joined the channel
[08:28] chjj: as well as connect
[08:28] jesusabdullah: rachelderp: dnode is also nice, and you may find hook.io useful, but I haven't seen a chat app built in dnode and hook.io is in its infancy
[08:28] Nuck: And my head hurts now.
[08:28] chjj: youll see how nice they are
[08:28] darshanshankar: jesusabdullah: you shoulda seen the dodgeball kinect / nodejs / nowjs app
[08:28] jesusabdullah: Oh?
[08:28] darshanshankar: ya ive seen some really cool stuff as of late. people are finally building more than just chat (to my relief)
[08:29] jesusabdullah: hahaha
[08:29] darshanshankar: but the dodgeball app.. wowz
[08:29] jesusabdullah: Yeah, I bet
[08:29] chjj: ive never written a node chat, maybe i should
[08:29] chjj: ive been writing a UO server in node
[08:29] jesusabdullah: chjj: I want a web irc client. You should build that1
[08:29] chjj: its rough
[08:29] darshanshankar: i think a node chat was my first app :P socket.io blog post
[08:29] jesusabdullah: YES I KNOW ABOUT OTHER IRC CLIENTS
[08:30] darshanshankar: can i be loudbot and rant ludicrous things at jesusabdullah ?
[08:30] jesusabdullah: but yeah, I want a web front end for something like github.com/martynsmith/node-irc or some such
[08:30] rachelderp: jesusabdullah: thanks for the tips
[08:30] chjj: that would be very nice
[08:30] jesusabdullah: rachelderp: Any time homie
[08:30] darshanshankar: rachelderp: check out #nowjs and http://nowjs.com
[08:30] jesusabdullah: ALSO
[08:30] jesusabdullah: ALSO, umm
[08:30] jesusabdullah: umm, fuck, umm
[08:30] jesusabdullah: oh
[08:31] jesusabdullah: chjj: ALSO, make it so you can one-liner add it to your web page
[08:31] rachelderp: hi darshanshankar 
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[08:31] darshanshankar: chjj jesusabdullah id use that!
[08:31] chjj: yeah that would be really nice
[08:31] jesusabdullah: "chat with our staff NOW" *click* *join #nodecompany"
[08:31] darshanshankar: yez!
[08:31] darshanshankar: i built that once
[08:32] jesusabdullah: I would've done this long ago if I didn't totally suck at front-end
[08:32] rachelderp: darshanshankar: Does now do encryption?
[08:32] darshanshankar: 
ACTION digs up old code

[08:32] darshanshankar: i made it look like http://olark.com
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[08:32] darshanshankar: rachelderp: you can do encrypted data transfer with it, but it's up to you really
[08:32] rachelderp: What about diffie hellman key exchange?
[08:33] darshanshankar: again, its up to you to implement the encryption
[08:33] SubStack: jesusabdullah: there's a chat app in the dnode examples/ directory
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[08:33] SubStack: it's been in there for over a year
[08:33] darshanshankar: i would suggest building a basic app using nowjs first, then seeing how encryption works with it
[08:34] jesusabdullah: rachelderp: I stand corrected re: dnode!
[08:34] framlin_: chjj: ok, I will have a look at express. what I want to avoid, is to take a lot of time only to learn another framework (that is whats going around within the headsof other developers ;) ) just to throw that knowledge away some months/years to go to the next one. But if its realy lightwight, that should not happen ... thx! 
[08:34] SubStack: hiding in plain sight!
[08:34] jesusabdullah: INDEED
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[08:34] SubStack: but chat apps aren't really dnode's strength so much
[08:35] chjj: framlin_: theres not that much to learn once you get the concept of a middleware and route stack down
[08:35] jesusabdullah: You could incorporate encryption though right?
[08:35] jesusabdullah: https://github.com/substack/dnode/tree/master/examples/chat I found it, fwiw
[08:35] SubStack: dnode is really great at making your complicated single page app with lots of back and forth simpler
[08:36] chjj: framlin_: i recommend reading the code if you dont understand something, its the best tutorial
[08:36] SubStack: or for writing libraries like hookio or sodr
[08:36] darshanshankar: dnode is also good at the server-server stuff
[08:36] jesusabdullah: SubStack: sodr?
[08:36] framlin_: chjj: I feared its like drupal or struts or something like that
[08:36] SubStack: oh, sodn
[08:36] framlin_: i will have a lokk
[08:36] djcoin: But is dnode is secure to use clientside ? as you may use any callback etc. ?
[08:36] SubStack: isaacs's botnet toy
[08:37] djcoin: (I guess you just need to make a few checks))
[08:37] framlin_: chjj: so you recommend to fork it?
[08:37] jesusabdullah: djcoin: It doesn't work that way.
[08:37] framlin_: .. to read the code ...
[08:37] catb0t: SyntaxError: Unexpected identifier
[08:37] jesusabdullah: It doesn't serialize functions, it wraps them
[08:38] chjj: framlin_: i just meant read it if you dont understand it
[08:38] chjj: https://github.com/visionmedia/express/tree/master/lib
[08:38] chjj: all the middleware stuff is in connect though
[08:39] jesusabdullah: djcoin: As such, it should be as secure as anything else, since you're still moving "just data" around---it's just a really frickin' slick abstraction
[08:39] Nuck: Gah, why can't somebody halp me on mongo D:
[08:39] djcoin: jesusabdullah: what does that change ? I still can open my firebug and use the dnode embed in my browser and feed him with a func that will be executed server side, no ?
[08:39] SubStack: djcoin: you are mistaken
[08:39] djcoin: Yeah, I wonder how its made inside, cause its quite awesome
[08:40] Nuck: djcoin: No
[08:40] Nuck: Basically, each side can call functions that the other side chooses to expose
[08:40] jesusabdullah: djcoin: No.
[08:40] Nuck: At least, that's my interpretation
[08:40] jesusabdullah: djcoin: It doesn't serialize functions.
[08:40] SubStack: functions execute on the side they are defined
[08:40] Nuck: Feel free to correct me
[08:40] jesusabdullah: djcoin: What it allows you to do, is use local functions as the callbacks of remotely-defined ones
[08:41] jesusabdullah: and, transparently, it wraps your callbacks in a, "send the result over dnode/json to this function"
[08:41] Nuck: But yeh, any mongo-smart folks?
[08:41] SubStack: it is hard to explain but it just works
[08:41] djcoin: SubStack: :)
[08:41] Nuck: SubStack: It Just works™
[08:41] jesusabdullah: No code gets transferred outside of the javascript files you <script>itate
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[08:42] SubStack: just works™℠®
[08:42] SubStack: patent pending
[08:42] Nuck: lol
[08:42] djcoin: that's amazing, when I got times, I will check your code SubStack 
[08:42] Nuck: (Copyright 2010 Apple Computers, Inc.)
[08:42] djcoin: Thanks for making such awesome stuff (already told you once, but well :] )
[08:43] Nuck: Can somebody here explain to me why Mongo is hard to get help on?
[08:43] jesusabdullah: Because I don't use mongo.
[08:43] Nuck: you should
[08:43] jesusabdullah: I'm a support MACHINE
[08:43] Nuck: It's awesome
[08:43] SubStack: Nuck: because mongo is webscale?
[08:43] djcoin: Because folks using Mongo are too busy trying to get back their lost data :)
[08:43] jesusabdullah: but I never need databases
[08:43] SubStack: so naturally people are too busy sharding to help you out
[08:43] darshanshankar: hahahahaha
[08:43] Nuck: SubStack: lol
[08:43] SubStack: and deploying MASSIVE SCALING
[08:44] Nuck: SubStack: Then how come I get help for Node? ;)
[08:44] jesusabdullah: Also, I'm totally going to write an article called "Why you should use excel spreadsheets for your next database" and submit it to HN
[08:44] djcoin: :)
[08:44] SubStack: node isn't a real thing, it's just some wrappers to do disk and network i/o for v8
[08:44] Nuck: jesusabdullah: I fully support that notion :P
[08:44] Nuck: SubStack: Yes, and then make execution super-easy :P
[08:44] framlin_: chjj: I have just looke at http://www.screenr.com/mAL and if that video is any representative, that much to heavy for what I am looking for ... 
[08:44] jesusabdullah: Well geez, some of the stupid crap that only makes it because of shocking titles...
[08:44] Nuck: Node is thin but owerful and incredibly useful.
[08:45] jesusabdullah: I just saw an article that was titled, "why you should quit your job and become a PhD"
[08:45] framlin_: but hanks for yout hints anyway !!
[08:45] Nuck: jesusabdullah: lol they have it backwards
[08:45] framlin_: Thanks 
[08:45] jesusabdullah: Exactly. I say this as someone that went to grad school.
[08:45] Nuck: "why you should quit your PhD and become a worker"
[08:45] jesusabdullah: Unless you want to do research, which honestly can be pretty thankless, you probably shouldn't waste your time
[08:46] jesusabdullah: and even if you *Want* to do research, just get a masters and then do research in industry
[08:46] SubStack: jesusabdullah: not just that a phd in the HUMANITIES?
[08:46] jesusabdullah: OR, just get it out of your system
[08:46] jesusabdullah: OH THAT'S RIGHT
[08:46] SubStack: FOOLISH HUMANS with their HUMAN STUDIES
[08:46] chjj: substack is a robot?
[08:46] chjj: i knew it
[08:46] SubStack: beep boop
[08:46] jesusabdullah: I KNOW KUNG FU
[08:47] Nuck: SubStack: Your header on your site is a self-portrait, huh?
[08:47] jesusabdullah: also, nodejitsu
[08:47] jesusabdullah: hiiyah!
[08:47] SubStack: Nuck: and my github avatar
[08:47] jesusabdullah: and my axe!
[08:47] Nuck: And I'll form the head!
[08:48] darshanshankar: i haven't seen SubStack in real life
[08:48] darshanshankar: so i can conclusively determine that he is indeed a robot
[08:48] jesusabdullah: I have
[08:48] jesusabdullah: and from what I can tell he's state of the art
[08:48] SubStack: I might also be invisible
[08:48] SubStack: I haven't checked
[08:48] Nuck: He's an AI made by IBM's engineers
[08:48] darshanshankar: hell no
[08:49] jesusabdullah: I *believe* that Substack is invisible
[08:49] darshanshankar: IBM doesn't understand node, remember Nuck ?
[08:49] darshanshankar: no way IBM made him
[08:49] darshanshankar: I bet Joyent made him
[08:49] Nuck: orite
[08:49] Aiden: Nuck: Have you managed to find anywhere that has good MongoDB help? I am trying to use MongooseJS in my Node app, but strange things are happening
[08:50] jesusabdullah: My belief that SubStack is invisible is an improper one, though, so it all works out
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[08:50] SubStack: jesusabdullah: http://i.imgur.com/9DI4a.jpg
[08:50] SubStack: 
ACTION ducks

[08:50] Nuck: Aiden: I don't use Mongoose, but I'm more looking for basic advice
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[08:51] Nuck: 
ACTION high-fives SubStack

[08:51] Nuck: SubStackInvisible Pink Unicorn, man.
[08:52] SubStack: everybody node now
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[08:52] SubStack: I've got at least 2 modules left in me tonight
[08:52] SubStack: node-invisible and maybe a plotting thing
[08:52] chjj: squeeze em out
[08:53] SubStack: oh wait, node-intestine I mean
[08:53] chjj: lol
[08:53] chjj: how about node-ulcerative-colitis
[08:53] SubStack: it's a module to make it easy to write testing frameworks
[08:54] SubStack: because there most certainly aren't enough of those
[08:54] chjj: lol
[08:54] chjj: or a testing framework for testing frameworks
[08:54] SubStack: that could be useful too
[08:55] chjj: someone help me think of a name for my markdown compiler
[08:55] chjj: good ones are all taken
[08:56] AvianFlu: GetDown
[08:56] AvianFlu: ?
[08:56] chjj: nah sounds to implicitly sexual
[08:56] AvianFlu: lol who are you, the preacher from footloose?
[08:56] chjj: wow i suck at typing "too" tonight
[08:56] chjj: haha
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[08:59] jesusabdullah: chjj: markdizzle
[08:59] SubStack: chjj: downfall
[08:59] SubStack: showdown!
[08:59] jesusabdullah: chjj: Also I am interested in this. Link when you commit
[08:59] djcoin: I have a question: who is earning its leaving with node.js ? - just curious -
[08:59] SubStack: touchdown
[08:59] RC1140 has left the channel
[08:59] SubStack: howdown
[08:59] chjj: lowdown
[08:59] darshanshankar: SubStack: showdown is a jquery markdown plugin haha
[08:59] SubStack: *hoedown
[09:00] chjj: everything is jquery's isnt it?
[09:00] SubStack: meltdown, rundown, rubdown, splashdown
[09:00] chjj: haha "meltdown"
[09:00] chjj: marksideways
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[09:02] chjj: markupsidedown
[09:02] chjj: or markdownsideup
[09:02] Nuck: Maaark to the left
[09:02] Nuck: Maaark to the right
[09:02] Nuck: 
ACTION sings the chacha slide for lulz

[09:02] chjj: markleft sounds alright, was thinkin of that
[09:03] chjj: maybe not\
[09:03] chjj: oh i know
[09:03] chjj: marky mark and the funky bunch
[09:03] chjj: will be its name
[09:03] chjj: because mark wahlberg is god
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[09:21] Nuck: Who the fuck SHOULD I talk to for Mongo help?
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[09:25] stephank: oh wow, npm just trashed itself during an upgrade o_O
[09:27] Nuck: lol
[09:28] clockwize: morning
[09:28] Nuck: 2:30AM-ening ;)
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[09:42] nail_: mscdex: your imap module actually _does_ support fetching the whole raw mail at once by passing { body: '', headers: false } :)
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[09:46] nail_: so https://gist.github.com/1699e5c5efebf677fb9a works like a charm
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[10:13] cognominal_: Is there a Unicode specialist around? How would nodejs would fare in that comparaison?   http://training.perl.com/OSCON2011/gbu/gbu.pdf
[10:14] cognominal_: it would be nice to do it and send the result to Tom Christiansen.
[10:14] kkaefer: cognominal_: it's the same as the JavaScript category
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[10:21] cognominal_: I did a quick test, and apparently the regexp engine was somehow patched to recognize a utf-16 codepoint in the regexp engine. So that would be better than a raw v8.
[10:24] Nuck: #mongodb: the most unhelpful chat on all of Freenode.
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[10:41] AAA_awright: Nuck: Really? There _has_ to be worse
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[10:42] AAA_awright: #drupal has been pretty bad to me, #math ##politics go without saying, among the best are #bitcoin #node.js and #gentoo
[10:42] AAA_awright: #ubuntu is the worst
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[10:43] Nuck: AAA_awright: I hear the Ruby rooms are pretty gnarly too
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[10:43] Nuck: But yeah, I would definitely place #node.js as one of the single most helpful chats on all of freenode
[10:43] AAA_awright: Nuck: Have you actually converted the ObjectID to a date? I can't find any Node.js-specific docs in that, or any at all actually
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[10:44] Nuck: AAA_awright: lemme see here...
[10:44] Nuck: AAA_awright: http://www.mongodb.org/display/DOCS/Object+IDs#ObjectIDs-BSONObjectIDSpecification
[10:47] AAA_awright: I don't think the 4 bytes is enough for me, milliseconds would be better
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[10:47] Nuck: AAA_awright: http://www.mongodb.org/display/DOCS/Timestamp+Data+Type
[10:47] Nuck: lol
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[10:48] AAA_awright: That doesn't appear to be any different
[10:48] Nuck: Also, http://www.mongodb.org/display/DOCS/Use+Cases
[10:48] Nuck: That's where I saw teh thing about logging for suggestion
[10:49] AAA_awright: I've looked through the part on logging and records/stats/analytics
[10:49] AAA_awright: Redis doens't do time series and MongoDB is already compiled so I'll go with MongoDB
[10:50] Nuck: AAA_awright: Mongo is able to do anything :P
[10:50] Nuck: You jsut hafta figure it out
[10:50] AAA_awright: Well almost, I'm certainly going to find myself falling back on relational databases for lots of simple stuff
[10:50] Nuck: I haven't
[10:51] CIA-94: node: 03Stefan Bühler 07master * rdb99395 10/ (src/node_crypto.cc test/simple/test-crypto.js): 
[10:51] CIA-94: node: Fix crypto hmac to accept binary keys + add test cases from rfc 2202 and 4231
[10:51] CIA-94: node: Fixes #324.
[10:51] CIA-94: node: Fixes #1027.
[10:51] CIA-94: node: Instead of converting buffers to strings and back again to char array
[10:51] CIA-94: node: directly use the buffer data in hmac_init (same as in hmac_update). - https://github.com/joyent/node/commit/db993956d61dd1cff86787cf7b8d1661d3d23e30
[10:51] Nuck: AAA_awright: Mongo meshes so perfectly with Node, it feels as natural as tj's code.
[10:51] AAA_awright: For write-heavy operations with a bazillion joins when you read, MySQL sounds better
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[10:52] Nuck: AAA_awright: joins aren't really something I've had to use with Mongo
[10:52] Nuck: I never saw a need either
[10:52] Nuck: I can put an object in an object
[10:52] AAA_awright: For document stores sure, which is probably 80% of my need
[10:52] Nuck: I can store damn near anything in document form
[10:53] Nuck: I can even make it act like a relation store.  You just use a specific set of fields consistently :P
[10:53] AAA_awright: Nuck: Well for instance, if I log _all_ the data coming off an online game, if I want to record players joining, each life, each shot, kill, movement, message, those are all different tables and relational joins are well suited for that
[10:53] Nuck: Why would those be separated?
[10:53] Nuck: You just put them as a field in teh document
[10:53] AAA_awright: because they all contain different data
[10:54] AAA_awright: But that's hard to work with
[10:54] Nuck: AAA_awright: Not really
[10:54] Nuck: You can query subsets of the data
[10:54] AAA_awright: With SQL it's a snap to formulate each player's strength rating
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[10:54] Nuck: AAA_awright: Strength rating?
[10:54] AAA_awright: I'd have to come up with some MapReduce script to do that in MongoDB
[10:54] AAA_awright: Nuck: Like Elo
[10:54] Nuck: Query by username
[10:55] Nuck: What I would do is store that data as a subdocument in the user documents
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[10:55] Nuck: Because that info is an aspect of the user
[10:55] AAA_awright: And it's also an aspect of the entire team
[10:55] Nuck: And then I'd use some of Mongo's more advanced features to keep it compiled in another document.
[10:56] AAA_awright: I want to query the order in which everyone made shots, you have to merge multiple documents to do that
[10:56] AAA_awright: With a table it's just another index
[10:56] Nuck: AAA_awright: Or just query a log list.  It's not hard to do these things :P
[10:56] Nuck: Merging documents?
[10:56] Nuck: Fancy-talk
[10:57] AAA_awright: MongoDB would do it probably, but still
[10:57] AAA_awright: It has to store all that in memory
[10:57] Nuck: wat
[10:57] Nuck: AAA_awright: It wat
[10:57] Nuck: AAA_awright: Mongo isn't a memory store
[10:57] Nuck: It's a database
[10:57] Nuck: No different from MySQL
[10:57] Nuck: Well
[10:57] Nuck: Actually
[10:57] Nuck: I take that bakc
[10:57] Nuck: It's faster
[10:57] Nuck: Than MySQL/
[10:57] AAA_awright: Let's say I have a table of all the shots that I made
[10:58] AAA_awright: There's potentially hundreds of thousands of them through the course of a day
[10:58] Nuck: AAA_awright: Sure?
[10:58] AAA_awright: And I want to generate a heatmap of where people are firing shots, and where they're most successful
[10:58] AAA_awright: How would I store all this in MongoDB? It's straightforward with tables
[10:59] Nuck: You know Mongo has extra capabilities for geospatial data?
[10:59] Nuck: Yeah
[10:59] Nuck: You can even query "within 5 units of this x,y"
[10:59] Nuck: IIRC
[10:59] Nuck: mongly.com taught me about geospatial shit
[11:00] Nuck: 'twas some badass tricks
[11:00] AAA_awright: I think that requires making each shot event its own document
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[11:00] Nuck: AAA_awright: How do you do it in a table?
[11:00] Nuck: Don't you just do a row per-shot?
[11:01] AAA_awright: You have a table for it, playerid, spawnid, eventtime, initial vector, velocity vector, etc
[11:01] Nuck: AAA_awright: To put things simply, rows <> documents and tables <> collections
[11:01] Nuck: AAA_awright: But one per shot event?
[11:01] Nuck: Correct?
[11:01] AAA_awright: Yeah
[11:02] Nuck: AAA_awright: Documents are no different from rows.
[11:02] AAA_awright: Except they're hard to join
[11:02] Nuck: I don't see what you mean :V
[11:02] Nuck: Why join?
[11:02] Nuck: Well, I guess I can see problems there
[11:02] AAA_awright: If I want to get the username of each person who fired the shot
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[11:03] AAA_awright: I can just join the players table to the shot.playerid
[11:03] AAA_awright: That's really costly in MongoDB since you're doing it application side
[11:03] Nuck: ah well, in Mongo, you just query for playerid (which is very simple) and grab the player by that id
[11:03] Nuck: It's not that hard.
[11:03] Nuck: And you store by ObjectId and it gets faster
[11:05] AAA_awright: My point is relational DBs already do it fast, they already do the caching
[11:05] AAA_awright: So for lots of joins I don't think you can beat it
[11:06] Nuck: fair enough
[11:06] Nuck: But for data like that, I'd use something like redis
[11:06] AAA_awright: But there's only really 2 applications that I've needed that sort of join power
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[11:06] Nuck: AAA_awright: Orly?
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[11:06] Nuck: See, the Queryable-JSON setup is PERFECT for my art site
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[11:07] AAA_awright: Aforementioned logging app, for http://bzflag.org/, and a similar engineered one for sports
[11:07] Nuck: I could easily build this entire site with 2 collections: art and users
[11:07] AAA_awright: Nuck: The rest are document stores like what you're describing
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[11:08] AAA_awright: Where you're _always_ getting data about a particular resource, like a user or an art page
[11:08] augustl: "npm link" gives me "404 'buster-core' is not in the npm registry.". buster-core is however installed on my system :S
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[11:09] TheJH: augustl, which part was it that failed, the "npm link" part or the "npm link buster-core" part?
[11:10] TheJH: ah, found your paste
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[11:10] Nuck: AAA_awright: What do you mean "always getting data"?
[11:10] Nuck: The big load will be reads
[11:10] AAA_awright: your reads are always with respect to a particular resource
[11:11] Nuck: But the document-oriented DB will enable great new features
[11:11] augustl: TheJH: just reproduced it outside of my project
[11:11] augustl: will post an issue
[11:11] AAA_awright: You want to know a user's favorites, or a user's username, or a user's gallery, etc
[11:11] Nuck: AAA_awright: Aye, but I will be chaining pretty deeply into that
[11:12] Nuck: Looking up the favorites for a user, then the tags on each of those, compiling it into a score, etc.
[11:12] Nuck: (that's the core in our art suggestion algo)
[11:12] Nuck: I'm gonna compile those numbers in advance, though.
[11:12] AAA_awright: Speaking of which, how much do you wanna bet I can make a better one?
[11:12] Nuck: When an artwork gets a new tag, all faves, etc. will be updated to have that
[11:13] Nuck: AAA_awright: Better art site?
[11:13] AAA_awright: I mean, sugguestion algorithm
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[11:13] AAA_awright: (why would you bet in favor of me hmmm...)
[11:13] Nuck: AAA_awright: lol it's pretty basic the one I have, but I expect it'll be quite efficient ;)
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[11:14] AAA_awright: Nuck: I've done a lot of work with prediction, though it was all in MySQL
[11:14] Nuck: AAA_awright: I follow the rule of KISS
[11:15] Nuck: AAA_awright: Orly?  My main concept is to weight all the things a user "faves" or "likes" (two levels of appreciating), and then study the tags on those, then grab the results for those and sort them via a method I can't recall but I did think through
[11:15] Nuck: It's gonna be a pain in the ass, I'm sure
[11:16] augustl: thar: https://github.com/isaacs/npm/issues/1182
[11:17] AAA_awright: Nuck: You might want to allow users to organize works in other ways too, I have a collection of inspiration for a movie I'm writing, and another for "very wide" works with an aspect ratio > 2.4
[11:17] gqlewis has joined the channel
[11:17] AAA_awright: on DA
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[11:17] Nuck: AAA_awright: Well yeah, we'll have ways to group 'em together
[11:17] AAA_awright: I have a "Likes" too, to avoid the default, but loaded word, Favorites
[11:17] AAA_awright: Which has what, 20 or so works?
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[11:18] AAA_awright: Likes as a general rule of thumb is stuff I might want to go back to later for some reason
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[11:18] AAA_awright: That's more like 200
[11:18] AAA_awright: Anyways
[11:18] Nuck: AAA_awright: Like is a simple way to jsut say "I dig this" without saying "this is my favorite thing ever"
[11:18] AAA_awright: Yep
[11:18] Nuck: Hence why fave = 2 x like
[11:18] AAA_awright: That's rather arbritary
[11:19] Nuck: Aye, I went for even numbers
[11:19] Nuck: 1.0 for face, 0.5 for like
[11:19] AAA_awright: Well, saying it's 2x or any x is going to cause problems maybe
[11:19] Nuck: I'll tweak them as I improve the algo
[11:19] Nuck: AAA_awright: I'm more worried about not getting our frontend done at this point :S
[11:20] Nuck: I've got the foundations for a View setup built
[11:20] AAA_awright: Nuck: You probably have to assume that anything witout a like or a fav, could *potentially* be a like or a fav, but the user hasn't decided on it, yet you know the user can't favorite all the works, so based on the ones they have favorited, which of the remaining also deserve a favorite
[11:20] Nuck: AAA_awright... WAT
[11:20] Nuck: AAA_awright: I'm not gonna pretend they like things they don't
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[11:21] AAA_awright: Unless there's a dislike button you have to assume they could like it, even if they've already dismissed it in reality, since there's no way to know
[11:21] AAA_awright: The "Like" provides an additional bit of info, too, it demonstrates that they have looked at it
[11:21] Nuck: It'll study the tags and display things that it thinks they'll like.
[11:21] AAA_awright: Tags of what?
[11:21] AAA_awright: Text tags?
[11:21] Nuck: tags of artwork
[11:21] Nuck: It's not categorized, it's tagged
[11:22] Nuck: Similar to Danbooru
[11:22] AAA_awright: Ah yes
[11:22] Nuck: But with some added features and groupings
[11:22] AAA_awright: But that's not going to tell you what style it's in
[11:22] Nuck: It will
[11:22] Nuck: Because it will have medium and descriptor tags
[11:22] Nuck: is it a landscape?
[11:23] Nuck: Was it done in pastels?
[11:23] AAA_awright: There's a whole lot of information you have at your disposal, Favorites, Likes, other user categories/collections, tags/category, user comments (seriously, train a spam filter on the comments for each work)
[11:23] Nuck: I weight all the tags on every artwork a user liked or faved
[11:23] AAA_awright: Views (maybe)
[11:24] Nuck: Aye, but I'm following the rule of KISS
[11:24] Nuck: By keeping it from having too many things in it, I'm making sure it's shit they'll like.
[11:24] AAA_awright: I would avoid using view count, or logging each user's view, and avoid recommending based on tag, because that could infect which tags people select in order to get it seen more
[11:24] AAA_awright: Well, just keep it modularized, KISS follows
[11:25] Nuck: Mistagging will be reportable and community-moderatable
[11:25] AAA_awright: But there are algorithms to use to determine which works a user probably does/would like but hasn't yet
[11:25] AAA_awright: Ah very good
[11:26] Nuck: AAA_awright: The biggest problem for me is implementatiin.
[11:26] Nuck: I've no idea how to implement an algorithm like that.
[11:26] Nuck: I mean, it's a pretty major thing.
[11:26] AAA_awright: I would need to work out the math on this too, I'm guessing though, that solving 500x500 matricies is a no-no
[11:26] Nuck: This could be the thing that breaks all my servers lol
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[11:27] AAA_awright: For other projects I was predicting outcomes of matches with 50x50 matricies and that took 10-20 seconds to compute
[11:27] Nuck: There's two things I'm worried are gonna block the development of Fakooda: (1) the algorithm (2) the frontend
[11:28] AAA_awright: You don't _have_ to have an algorithm, but that would be cool
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[11:28] Nuck: With no budget, I'm stuck as the sole JS coder.
[11:28] Nuck: AAA_awright: It's a core part of our plans.
[11:28] AAA_awright: Nuck: Don't you have Bitcoin?
[11:28] Nuck: I want this to be front-and-center.
[11:28] Nuck: AAA_awright: I do, but I have no way to make bitcoins
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[11:29] Nuck: 
ACTION opens up the Bitcoin app

[11:29] Nuck: Balance: 0.00
[11:29] AAA_awright: I've got... way more than I need
[11:29] Nuck: lol
[11:29] AAA_awright: I'm paying for help with this IRC client of mine?
[11:29] Nuck: AAA_awright: lol I can't believe people actually use bitcoins
[11:30] AAA_awright: I have 8 transactions including 2 generated blocks
[11:30] Nuck: How much do you think it'd take to get a newbie JS coder to bite?
[11:30] Nuck: AAA_awright: Damn, you generated blocks?
[11:30] Nuck: Those people are always the rich folk :(
[11:30] AAA_awright: When it was $0.06/Bitcoin
[11:30] AAA_awright: Haven't sold it
[11:30] Nuck: AAA_awright: Oooh, I'd cash out now X3
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[11:31] Nuck: 0.06 --> $13
[11:31] AAA_awright: I tried to get out at $30 but my account didn't get setup in time
[11:31] Nuck: That's what, a 20000% increase
[11:31] AAA_awright: It's crazy
[11:33] AAA_awright: Nuck: This was before GPU mining and when $0.07 was supposed to be a bubble, and the i7 was ramping up the temperature of the room by a cozy +15F so I stopped for electricicy costs
[11:33] Nuck: AAA_awright: LOL
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[11:34] Bonuspunk: wasnt there somebody who damaged his brain by generating bitcoins
[11:35] Nuck: BUTTCOINS
[11:36] Bonuspunk: --> http://i.imgur.com/ieNK0.png
[11:37] AAA_awright: Bonuspunk: Must have already been somewhat braindead eh?
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[11:39] medice: Bonuspunk: awesome
[11:40] Nuck: AAA_awright:I was thinking of accepting payments on my site in bitcoins
[11:40] Nuck: But then Mt. Gox happened :P
[11:40] Nuck: And I saw exactly how unstable bitcoins are
[11:40] Nuck: And said "uhhhhhh no"
[11:41] AAA_awright: Nuck: That's what I'm doing for my IRC client, Bitcoins only actually
[11:41] Nuck: AAA_awright: I just wanna be able to cash out.  But bitcoins directly isn't the safest thing, even if I buffered myself with an added charge :S
[11:42] AAA_awright: For the end user it's a whole lot safer than a credit card number
[11:42] Nuck: I discussed it with my CTO and CMO and both agreed that it was too unstable.
[11:42] Nuck: AAA_awright: I'm more worried about the value suddenly decreasing in a matter of hours
[11:43] AAA_awright: I'm worried about the same thing happening to the USD
[11:43] Lorentz: It's already happening
[11:43] Lorentz: heh
[11:43] AAA_awright: Not Hyper
[11:43] AAA_awright: But as my investment in silver says, yeah it's here
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[11:46] xerox: do you know if it is possible to change the Accept http header from the browser from whatever it is to, say, 'text/plain' ?
[11:47] TheJH: xerox, I'd either put a proxy in between or do the request using netcat
[11:47] TheJH: xerox, what do you want to do?
[11:48] xerox: TheJH: that's a bit overkill - I just want to serve different versions of a resource with the right format, Accept seems the Right Way to do it
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[11:48] xerox: instead of, say, fiddling with the url
[11:49] xerox: I was hoping for something like <a accept="text/plain" ...>... but that seem to be just wishful thinking
[11:49] Bonuspunk: xerox via ajax u can do this afaik
[11:49] TheJH: xerox, just fiddle with the url :P
[11:49] xerox: TheJH: node puts such an emphasis on the http protocol, might as well use it properly : )
[11:50] xerox: Bonuspunk: hmm by building an XHR?
[11:51] Bonuspunk: http://api.jquery.com/jQuery.ajax/ --> accepts
[11:52] AAA_awright: Nuck: The most objective way to rate something is higher or lower than another thing, so Which-kitten-is-cuter websites are the most objective, actually
[11:52] AAA_awright: Because any decision making process can be serilized down to a ranked list
[11:52] AAA_awright: Now there might be some contradicting opinions too, like A>B and B>C but C>A
[11:53] xerox: Bonuspunk: that could indeed work, so I guess browsers just don't give you a way to do it with their requests directly
[11:53] AAA_awright: So that might demand a matrix to work out
[11:53] AAA_awright: And there's ways to estimate the solution of a matrix without solving it
[11:54] Nuck: AAA_awright: Aye, that is true, but it implies that one artwork is better than another
[11:54] Nuck: There is no better in thsi case, only relevancy
[11:54] AAA_awright: That's correct
[11:55] Nuck: Is it more relevant or is it less relevant?
[11:55] AAA_awright: To what?
[11:55] Nuck: to the user
[11:55] AAA_awright: Whether they actually like it or not?
[11:56] Nuck: AAA_awright: The idea is that content is what makes the artwork most relevant to the user.
[11:56] Nuck: Quality plays a role in this too
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[11:56] Nuck: As determined by faves and likes and whatnot
[11:57] AAA_awright: Well, no matter what you call it, if you can rank it, then there's your sugguestions
[11:57] Nuck: AAA_awright: I typed 2 paragraphs describing the ranking algorithm on my iPhone
[11:58] AAA_awright: Nuck: Maybe you also want to have "If you liked this then based on your favorites/likes you'll also like... " and proceed to sugguest what works would become more likely to be sugguested if the user were to favorite it
[11:58] AAA_awright: Is that something you had in mind?
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[11:59] Nuck: AAA_awright: I'm gonna have a "More like this" thing
[11:59] AAA_awright: And also a generic "Artwork you may like" by category?
[12:00] Nuck: That will be our default main page
[12:00] Nuck: A display of shit a person might like
[12:01] Nuck: AAA_awright: You seem smart, you make tha algorithm for me ;D
[12:01] Nuck: And make it snappy! </troll>
[12:01] AAA_awright: There was something I had in my mind and I forget it...
[12:02] AAA_awright: Oh spaghetti sause!
[12:02] Nuck: AAA_awright: dAmn is spaghetti code.
[12:03] AAA_awright: It should also be somewhat capable of organizing sugguestions into groups, note who belongs to what groups and weigh sugguestions accordingly
[12:03] chjj: "scoliosis aviator"
[12:03] chjj: thats a captcha i just got
[12:03] Nuck: AAA_awright: I'm thinking of making it modular so I can run it over single pieces or sets of artworks
[12:03] Nuck: With given weights
[12:04] Nuck: So to do the mainpage, I'd call a function for each artwork
[12:04] Nuck: that is faved or liked
[12:04] Nuck: problem is, this might be heavyweight
[12:04] Nuck: Slow down the site
[12:04] AAA_awright: So me liking lots of fantasy will sugguest fantasy but not automatically other genres that other people don't always like (say some people who like fantasy like furry and landscapes, but we don't want to jump to the conclusion that everyone does), but there's a way I can find out what other genres I might learn to like (Oh people who like these styles of artwork also like those styles)
[12:05] AAA_awright: Nuck: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/malcolm_gladwell_on_spaghetti_sauce.html
[12:05] AAA_awright: Watch it
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[12:07] AAA_awright: Nuck: There's probably some way to calculate it pretty fast, you could probably narrow it down to a 200-dimension vector and not add more than 10% error
[12:07] Nuck: AAA_awright: Iiiiiiii don't even know what a vector is :|
[12:08] AAA_awright: An ordered pair is a two dimensional vector
[12:08] AAA_awright: A vector is just a one-column matrix
[12:08] Nuck: I don't see how this applies to an algorithm :S
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[12:09] Nuck: I'm gonna be honest, all I did was mathematically rank the tags that a user likes
[12:09] Nuck: simple iteration
[12:09] Nuck: amidoinitwrong
[12:09] AAA_awright: If you calculated a 200x200 matrix for each user, you could assign a vector to each artwork, and get back out a 200d matrix
[12:09] AAA_awright: or something
[12:09] TheJH: hey guys, can you recommend a simple javascript tokenizer (written in javascript and tokenizes javascript)?
[12:09] AAA_awright: And you use that to determine how likely the user is to fav or like it
[12:09] AAA_awright: TheJH: PEG
[12:09] AAA_awright: Oh
[12:09] AAA_awright: For JS
[12:10] AAA_awright: TheJH: I'm looking for one myself... You figure V8 would have some builtin lib that we could access to do it
[12:10] Nuck: AAA_awright: I'm not trying to predict if they're gonna fave or like each artwork
[12:10] AAA_awright: There's the PHP tokenizer after all
[12:10] AAA_awright: Nuck: You could use this to do whatever, so long as there's an objective way to determine your input
[12:10] Nuck: I'm trying to figure out a list of artworks that fit with their historical preferences
[12:11] TheJH: If I find nothing better, I guess I'll take the one from narcissus
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[12:11] Nuck: AAA_awright: I'd send you the algorithm if I weren't afraid you'd steal it lol
[12:11] AAA_awright: I have an inkling of the right way to do it in my head
[12:11] AAA_awright: What would I do with it?
[12:11] Nuck: AAA_awright: IUNO
[12:12] Nuck: AAA_awright: I have it in my iPhone's notes section :lol:
[12:12] AAA_awright: Nuck: Maybe you need to explain what you're sugguesting... If all you have to go off of is likes and faves, you're going to get back probability of like/fav
[12:12] Nuck: AAA_awright: I measure it more as relevance.  I look at tags on previous likes and faves
[12:13] AAA_awright: Tags would just weight it maybe
[12:13] AAA_awright: Interestingly enough, if you have enough data, the pattern of favorites/likes could be more accurate than the user-specified tags
[12:14] Nuck: IT's a combination
[12:14] AAA_awright: For seperating out art styles and content
[12:14] Nuck: It uses faves/likes as a tag-value multiplier
[12:15] Nuck: If you fave 12 artworks with the tag "landscapes", it'll give that tag a value of 12.  An artwork that has that tag therefore gains 12 points.
[12:16] Nuck: if it has another tag with 10 points, it is now at 120 points
[12:16] Nuck: Because I multiply
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[12:16] AAA_awright: What about 0?
[12:16] Nuck: I ignore zeros.
[12:17] Nuck: I then factor in popularity (faves and likes numbers)
[12:17] Nuck: Anywho I needa sleep
[12:17] Nuck: It's past 5 AM
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[12:17] AAA_awright: Sunlight
[12:17] AAA_awright: Ahhhhh
[12:17] Nuck: I meant to be in bed like an hour ago X3
[12:17] AAA_awright: There's a better way to do that
[12:17] AAA_awright: I think
[12:17] Nuck: AAA_awright: See, I knew it was suboptimal
[12:17] Nuck: And it's a lot of iteration
[12:17] Nuck: Which is HORRIBAD
[12:17] AAA_awright: But you have to provide a better idea of what you want to display
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[12:18] AAA_awright: But just know if the only data you have is favs/likes, that's all you're going to output, you need some data that tells us what "relevance" is
[12:18] Nuck: AAA_awright: I can send you a copy of my algorithm description, it makes more sense than tired ol' me.
[12:18] Nuck: relevance is an arbitrary value
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[12:18] Nuck: but now, sleep
[12:19] AAA_awright: 
ACTION night

[12:20] bentkus: night
[12:20] bentkus: ?
[12:20] bentkus: good morning!
[12:21] augustl: in b4 time zones
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[12:27] TheJH: is it allowed to use GPL-licensed js libs in MIT-licensed js code?
[12:27] jensn: Yes, but the GPL is viral.
[12:28] jensn: Separately they would be GPL/MIT respectively, the sum would be GPL.
[12:29] TheJH: jensn, but I don't get infected if I just use the library, right?
[12:30] Lorentz: Depends if it's LGPL or GPL
[12:30] jensn: If you 'just use' a GPL library from your code, you generally will have to distribute the amalgamation under the GPL.
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[12:31] TheJH: oh... hmm... how about using a library licensed as "Mozilla Public License Version 1.1", would that lib virally infect me, too?
[12:32] piscisaureus has joined the channel
[12:32] TheJH: ah, it's LGPL
[12:32] TheJH: the lib i want to use
[12:32] TheJH: I misread :)
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[12:33] jensn: You can link against LGPL code, but I am not sure how to interpret that in the context of JS.
[12:33] jensn: I would guess that as long as all LGPL code is in a separate file, you would be alright.
[12:34] TheJH: it is :)
[12:35] Lorentz: If in doubt, contact a lawyer
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[12:38] sriley: most lawyers would probably say something along the lines of ...eh?
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[13:18] chjj: https://github.com/chjj/marked
[13:18] chjj: my markdown parser is up if anyone wants to try it ;)
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[13:24] mape: ryah: around?
[13:24] seivan: chjj: Any benchmarks or comparisons?
[13:25] chjj: yes
[13:25] chjj: theyre in the readme
[13:26] chjj: 4 times faster than showdown, more ~10 times faster than markdown-js
[13:26] chjj: or around*
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[13:26] chjj: its also very compact
[13:26] chjj: around 350 lines
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[13:42] chjj: i hate stackoverflow sometimes
[13:42] xerox: why :x
[13:43] chjj: its such a battle for rep, people take it too seriously sometimes
[13:43] chjj: you post an answer, and theyll downvote it for no legitimate reason to attempt to convince the poster their answer is better
[13:43] xerox: assholes
[13:44] chjj: or theyll comment on your post and try to win the semantics argument about why youre "technically" wrong
[13:44] chjj: ugh
[13:44] chjj: i cant count how many times
[13:44] chjj: drives me fuckin insane
[13:44] chjj: probably why i dont post as much as i would on there
[13:45] chjj: oh, theyre always the guys with like 25k rep too
[13:45] xerox: reputation = a system to reward trolling
[13:45] chjj: and they get very angry if someone else gets rep, so they do everything they can
[13:45] chjj: once they realize you posted a better answer
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[13:46] chjj: not to mention, the voters themselves
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[13:46] chjj: half the time theyll upvote a bad answer or question
[13:46] chjj: or downvote a very good answer
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[13:47] chjj: ive never heard of any of the top dogs for the js tag there, i doubt theyre as smart as any of the people in this channel with JS
[13:48] chjj: actually they might be, thats just a blind assumption out of rage
[13:48] chjj: ./rant
[13:49] xerox: link
[13:49] sriley: rep makes it a game which makes people answer more, if there was no reward to answer the place would be dead
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[14:10] mnaser: time to kick some ass with node!
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[15:10] stracK: someone here is from brazil? ;x
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[15:19] Fuu`: is there a socket.io api docs somewhere, besides from trawling through the sources?
[15:19] Charuru: the tests?
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[15:25] `3E|DINNER: Fuu` the wiki?
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[15:28] Fuu`: not really useful
[15:28] seivan: ugh
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[16:44] pNstK: ,
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[16:56] josch: fs.rename() uses rename(2) which fails with EXDEV when trying to rename a file where oldpath and newpath are not on the same mounted file system
[16:56] josch: bug or feature?
[16:58] josch: so I take one is not supposed to move a file between paths originating in different mountpoints?
[16:58] josch: if so - why?
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[16:58] TheJH: when I run "node script.js", what is the first native module that will be loaded?
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[16:59] TheJH: ah, don't mind, found it
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[17:03] blueadept: looks like the ruby guys are making coffee script the default for javascript interoperation 
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[17:04] Aria: Rails guys, you mean?
[17:04] blueadept: er rails, yeah
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[17:04] augustl: good for them :)
[17:05] ringomanatee: Off topic - anyone have any good script for finding the 3d slope/angle from a height map?
[17:05] blueadept: yeah but it kind of says something
[17:06] blueadept: i think i'm going to mess around with coffee script today, see what i can do
[17:06] blueadept: it seems like theres a few good things about it. i'm for anything that lets me write less code
[17:07] augustl: if Ruby is your thing, CoffeeScript seems to fit right in
[17:07] ringomanatee: what you can do with coffeescript is to write javsacript. :D 
[17:07] augustl: since macros and DSLs and a certain type of syntax is really important to them
[17:08] augustl: and code beauty is about glyphs :) I.e. semicolon being considered ugly.
[17:08] ringomanatee: ;suck;it;up;
[17:08] blueadept: ^ ha
[17:09] blueadept: in node i stay away from semicolons anyway, maybe on the browser side i watch myself 
[17:09] blueadept: but the curly braces are starting to get to me
[17:09] blueadept: especially once i get into a deeply nested callback 
[17:09] ringomanatee: If you have deeply nested callbacks, break them down into real functions with names. 
[17:10] blueadept: well i do that too
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[17:15] Sorella: augustl, there's no macros in CoffeeScript though.
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[17:16] Sorella: and you can code without semicolons just fine in JS, though not brackets and parens.
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[17:16] xerox: ringomanatee: slope along what
[17:16] Ans5i: hi, i am trying to get node/coffeescript example working in windows but i get this error (http://pastebin.com/TV70Qhh3). what i am missing?
[17:17] Sorella: Ans5i, you probably don't have the module in a reachable folder. Try putting it on a local node_modules right above the code you're working with.
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[17:22] Ans5i: Sorella: yeah, seems so. thanks. i must be blind. :)
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[17:43] jonaslund: who works on the node documentation ?
[17:43] ceej: anyone know why when I install anything via npm it just does this https://gist.github.com/fea9bbd90465d37583a9 and never installs anything
[17:43] ajsie: how can i look at the request i sent with http.request() ?
[17:43] ajsie: the headers and body
[17:45] augustl: ajsie: http.request() returns it
[17:47] ceej: this is driving me nuts
[17:47] Elems: ceej it looks like it did install..?
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[17:50] ceej: Elems: nope… that's all it does
[17:50] Sorella: ceej, why do you think it didn't install? Did you check your ./node_modules folder?
[17:50] ceej: it adds that node modules folder to whatever folder I am currently in
[17:51] Sorella: yes, that's npm's definition of `install'
[17:51] Elems: Yea, because you are installing it locally
[17:51] ceej: I remember when I used to run it, it would do a bunch of installation stuff
[17:51] Sorella: the faq explains it nicely iirc
[17:51] Sorella: ceej, changed in npm 1.x
[17:51] Elems: npm ls
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[17:52] Sorella: you can do npm install -g <package> to install it globally. But local installs are sweet :3
[17:53] ceej: but then don't I have to sym link it to my bin etc?
[17:54] Elems: Nah. if you install it where your project is you can just require(); it. I think...
[17:54] ceej: I get why it does it, better for projects….thanks for your help thought I was loosing my mind
[17:55] ringomanatee: does three.js work with node canvas?
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[17:59] ajsie: augustl: thanks
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[18:06] Elems: Why am I getting an error saying crypto is undefined? I tried to require('crypto'), doesn't that module come with node?
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[18:10] AvianFlu: Elems: what node version
[18:11] AvianFlu: Elems: also, you have to have openssl at compile time to have the crypto stuff
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[18:13] xerox: do people usually use mongoose
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[18:13] xerox: or the node-mongodb-native
[18:13] Elems: AvianFlu haha nevermind it was just a typo... embarrassing
[18:17] AvianFlu: hahaha that's okay, don't feel bad
[18:17] sorensen: xerox: i use mongoose
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[18:17] sorensen: schemas are nice :)
[18:18] ringomanatee: mongoose is popular - I have been relying on mongo native and marcello3D's mongolian
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[18:19] ringomanatee: it depends on how deeply you want to understand and exploit the Mongo database and how concerned you are over performance. 
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[18:20] ringomanatee: can anyone see any hazards/problems with requiring a module you use a lot then assigning it to global?
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[18:25] TheJH: ringomanatee, if someone else does that, too, but with a different value (e.g. in a lib you use), you're going to have problems
[18:25] xerox: sorensen: can I pm you?
[18:25] TheJH: ringomanatee, it will work (at least some time), but as soon as it stops working, you have a magically appearing problem
[18:26] TheJH: ringomanatee, imagine that require('a') works, require('b') works, too, but in combination, they cause crashs?
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[18:26] TheJH: would be bad
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[18:26] TheJH: therefore, don't do it.
[18:26] qbert: res.cookies.userId , in the latest express is this still valid for accessing cookies ?
[18:27] sorensen: xerox: sure
[18:28] qbert:  doh nm
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[18:33] augustl: ugh, can't remember what you type to get the file name of the file that executes the statement. __file or something
[18:34] augustl: found it, http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.10/api/globals.html
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[18:50] Elems: Hmm... So this web server I made is acting funky, it seems like the browser requests the same page twice, but I can't figure out why. It doesn't do this on my phone's browser
[18:52] arlolra: favicon?
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[18:54] Elems: arlolra It does request that, so really there are three requests. If I go to /app, I see on the node.js console that /app is requests two times.
[18:55] arlolra: Elems: hard to tell without seeing the code
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[18:58] jonaslund: hmmm
[18:59] jonaslund: some longtime node user awake ?
[18:59] jonaslund: 
ACTION made a CHM version of the documentation

[18:59] jonaslund: the topic structure is a bit fckd though
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[19:06] zackattack: Need good Node.js developer.   Pay: $100/hr.  Get at me.
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[19:37] seivan: Anyone here familiar with connect-auth?
[19:38] seivan: getting 500 TypeError: Object #<IncomingMessage> has no method 'isAuthenticated' 
[19:38] seivan: Calling req.isAuthenticated()
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[20:23] Ramosa: this page is getting a bit overwhelming https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/modules
[20:23] micheil: Ramosa: that's why we have search.npmjs.org
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[20:26] Ramosa: hmm then I would say http://search.npmjs.org/#/_tag/database is underwhelming .. no mongodb database modules for instance
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[20:29] qbert: there are dozens of them
[20:29] qbert: that seems to be broken
[20:30] qbert: npm search database | wc -l 
[20:30] qbert: 46
[20:30] Ramosa: I've not decided on Mongo, Redis or CoucbDB yet.. but once I do I have to decide again among 7-8 drivers :)
[20:31] qbert: its true
[20:31] blkcat: Ramosa: use mongo backed by mongoose. done. :)
[20:31] qbert: if you dont need a schema for mongo, use mongollian, otherwise yeah, mongoose is the most mature
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[20:31] Ramosa: that's the thing.. i can't imagine a database without a schema.. I need some sort of reference to work from
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[20:32] shayfalador: Hi
[20:32] mnaser: just a question, why is mongo seem to be far more "selected" in nodejs env?
[20:32] mnaser: or rather more preferred
[20:33] shayfalador: How can I run node from my PC (windows) online? just for demonstration
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[20:33] shayfalador: when I do server.listen(8000, '123.123.123.123'); I get "Error: listen EADDRNOTAVAIL"
[20:33] Ramosa: also wonder if mongo (AGPL licensed) can be used commercially
[20:33] mnaser: try doing server.listen(8000) only
[20:34] shayfalador: well
[20:34] qbert: Ramosa, yes for sure
[20:34] shayfalador: If I do so I can access via 127.0.0.1:8000
[20:34] shayfalador: but can't via 123.123.123.123:8000
[20:34] shayfalador: (of course I use my real IP)
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[20:35] mnaser: you should be able to
[20:35] mnaser: i think it listens to 0.0.0.0 which means all IPs
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[20:36] shayfalador: maybe my router/firewall is blocking it or something?
[20:36] Ramosa: mongodb uses 6-7% idle on my debian server :|
[20:36] mnaser: you will need to forward ports if you're behind a router
[20:37] mscdex: shayfalador: most likely
[20:37] shayfalador: can you explain me how? or link me?
[20:37] mscdex: shayfalador: if you don't specify an ip, it does use 0.0.0.0, which listens on all interfaces
[20:37] shayfalador: I tried to google it earlier and found nothing
[20:37] mnaser: mscdex: you're probably the only person around from yesterday's fiasco, express.js is lightweight.  :p
[20:37] shayfalador: I understand mscdex
[20:37] mnaser: shayfalador: search forward port with your router model name
[20:37] shayfalador: Ok, thanks
[20:38] mnaser: i've almost finished the whole implemenation in 1 day with express-resource + express, it's really awesome.  heh.
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[20:40] tmzt_: mnaser: express-resource?
[20:41] mnaser: it provides a simple nice api to create a restful interface
[20:41] mnaser: tmzt_: https://github.com/visionmedia/express-resource
[20:41] tmzt_: TJ
[20:41] tmzt_: sweet, waiting for something like this
[20:42] mnaser: it's really well designed, i've been flying through this without a hitch!
[20:42] Ramosa: what folder should I be in when I run npm? i just tried npm install mongoose in some random folder and it created nodes_modules/mongoose .. is that just an install folder that I can remove?
[20:43] mnaser: Ramosa: if you do npm install -g module -- it will install it globally, you should run it in your application root
[20:43] mnaser: and then when it creates that, you can do "var module = require("mongoose").whatever"
[20:43] mnaser: nodejs would look for mongoose in the node_modules folder or the global store (but its better to install them locally instead of globally)
[20:44] shayfalador: Guys, I need the "Internal Host IP Address"
[20:44] shayfalador: The ipconfig says
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[20:44] seivan: Ok
[20:44] seivan: #  app.use(app.router) and connect-auth are no goes
[20:44] shayfalador: IPv4 Address 10.0.0.2
[20:44] Ramosa: mnaser, how do I undo the install I just did then?
[20:44] shayfalador: Default Gateway 10.0.0.138
[20:45] shayfalador: Which one I need?
[20:45] tmzt_: looks well matched to Backbone as well
[20:45] mnaser: shayfalador: 10.0.0.2
[20:45] shayfalador: Ok, thank you again :)
[20:45] mnaser: Ramosa, same.  npm uninstall module or globally uninstall it (if you globally installed it) npm uninstall module -g
[20:46] shayfalador: It still won't work
[20:46] Ramosa: mnaser, thanks.. I wish npm would be more verbose about its processing like apt-get
[20:46] tmzt_: one step away from building a directory based router configuration structure like other MVCs
[20:47] shayfalador: When I insert it I get a screen just like here: http://portforward.com/english/routers/port_forwarding/BT/Voyager240/VNC.htm
[20:47] shayfalador: In the end of the page
[20:47] mnaser: Ramosa: there might be a verbose switch
[20:47] mnaser: did you press apply, shayfalador?
[20:47] shayfalador: yeah
[20:48] mnaser: try using their port check program
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[20:48] shayfalador: I already deleted it
[20:48] shayfalador: trying it again
[20:48] shayfalador: I am not sure what do I need to insert
[20:48] shayfalador: What should insert in "External Packet	" and "Forward to Internal Host" lables? :/
[20:48] shayfalador: thank you so much again
[20:49] mnaser: external package port start and port end is the port you want, so 8000
[20:50] mnaser: and the same on the other end, 8000
[20:50] mnaser: think of the router as a host that gets someone at door 8000 from outside, and tells them to check into room 8000 inside.
[20:50] mnaser: if you wanted to forward port 3000 to 4000 internally, it would be 3000 external and 4000 internal
[20:50] shayfalador: *thought
[20:50] shayfalador: yeah that's what I taught
[20:50] shayfalador: but it still doesn't work
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[20:51] shayfalador: In the code I use "server.listen(8000);"
[20:51] shayfalador: The router's screen says "nodejs 	ALL 	TCP 	8000 	10.0.0.2 	8000"
[20:51] shayfalador: It seems fine to me
[20:51] mnaser: is your pc's static ip actaully 10.0.0.2?
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[20:51] shayfalador: I don't really know
[20:52] mnaser: you need to cehck this out
[20:52] shayfalador: I checked it via ipconfig
[20:52] Madaraz: When are express and connect going to update to node version 5.2?
[20:52] shayfalador: one second
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[20:53] AvianFlu: Madaraz: 0.5.x is unstable
[20:53] AvianFlu: when it becomes stable it will become 0.6.x
[20:53] Madaraz: thanks!
[20:54] shayfalador: mnaser: this is what I have got for now http://i56.tinypic.com/2dmb0k5.jpg
[20:55] mnaser: okay once you start it.. you should be able to acces it by gonig to
[20:55] mnaser: http://publicip:8000/
[20:55] mnaser: get your public ip from http://whatismyip.com
[20:55] shayfalador: I got it from here http://www.whatismyip.org/
[20:55] shayfalador: shouldn't matter
[20:55] mnaser: yeah, doesn't wor?
[20:56] shayfalador: works via http://127.0.0.1:8000/
[20:56] mnaser: but not with your public IP?
[20:56] shayfalador: yup
[20:56] mnaser: try disabling windows firewall
[20:56] mnaser: and try again
[20:56] mnaser: it might very well be blocking it
[20:56] shayfalador: still :/
[20:57] shayfalador: I tried to enable it there earlier
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[20:57] mnaser: disable windows firewall, close nodejs app, run the port checker app
[20:57] shayfalador: port checker app?
[20:57] mnaser: on the same port forwarder site they have a port checker at the end
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[20:58] shayfalador: I see
[20:58] shayfalador: I'll give it a try
[20:58] shayfalador: btw should I open UDP to ?
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[20:58] shayfalador: *two
[20:59] mnaser: tcp is enough
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[20:59] shayfalador: I don't need to restart my router/pc or something right?
[21:00] mnaser: depends on the model but they should write it there if you do
[21:00] shayfalador: I noticed the router bipped in red when I changed it earlier
[21:00] shayfalador: as if it was doing something
[21:00] shayfalador: or turning on
[21:01] mnaser: cant help you with that because i dont use that router
[21:01] shayfalador: yeah..
[21:02] shayfalador: this port checker crashes all the time...
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[21:03] shayfalador: I searched google for a port checker, is this good enough http://canyouseeme.org/?
[21:03] mnaser: not sure, run node and check it, i you really have to look more because this is router dependant and i have no knowledge in it
[21:03] shayfalador: I see
[21:04] shayfalador: well thank you very much
[21:04] shayfalador: really, you are great
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[21:11] shayfalador: manser
[21:11] shayfalador: some one linked me to http://proxylocal.com/ on stackoverflow
[21:11] shayfalador: it did the job
[21:11] shayfalador: eventhough it is not via my IP, it works...
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[21:15] _bat: shayfalador: that was me :)
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[21:19] Madaraz: Im using express to generate a session templated project but when I try running the project I get this error 'TypeError: Cannot read property 'prototype' of undefined'
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[21:25] burg: hello.when i try to configure node.js for install, it tells me that i don`t have icpc and could not configure a cxx compiler -- what is that exactly?
[21:26] TheJH: burg, which operating system are you using?
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[21:27] _bat: Madaraz: It worked for me. I ran `express -s moon`, `npm i .`, and `node app.js`
[21:27] TheJH: anyone here who's interested in my solution for the errors-without-useful-stacktrace-problem? :)
[21:28] burg: TheJH, centos
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[21:28] TheJH: burg, look in your package manager. does it have a package named "build-essential" or so?
[21:29] burg: TheJH, i`ll search for
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[21:31] Madaraz: _bat: I just repeated exactly what you did and am still getting this error 'node.js:134
[21:31] Madaraz:         throw e; // process.nextTick error, or 'error' event on first tick
[21:31] Madaraz:         ^
[21:31] Madaraz: TypeError: Cannot read property 'prototype' of undefined
[21:31] Madaraz:     at Object.<anonymous> (/Users/zacgeis/Desktop/moon/node_modules/express/lib/http.js:50:35)
[21:31] Madaraz:     at Module._compile (module.js:402:26)
[21:31] Madaraz:     at Object..js (module.js:408:10)
[21:31] Madaraz:     at Module.load (module.js:334:31)
[21:31] Madaraz:     at Function._load (module.js:293:12)
[21:31] Madaraz:     at require (module.js:346:19)
[21:31] Madaraz:     at Object.<anonymous> (/Users/zacgeis/Desktop/moon/node_modules/express/lib/https.js:13:18)
[21:31] Madaraz:     at Module._compile (module.js:402:26)
[21:31] Madaraz:     at Object..js (module.js:408:10)
[21:31] Madaraz:     at Module.load (module.js:334:31)'
[21:31] blkcat: dude
[21:31] blkcat: pastebin :(
[21:32] bentkus: duude not cool
[21:32] Madaraz: sorry :/
[21:32] _bat: Madaraz: update your Node if it's old, reinstall npm and reinstall express and try it again
[21:32] _bat: Madaraz: if that's broken a lot of other stuff probably is too
[21:33] bentkus: what
[21:33] bentkus: he tries to access the property of prototype of undefined
[21:33] bentkus: either that worked already
[21:33] bentkus: or he won't have any luck
[21:33] burg: TheJH, i installed as sugested on this message: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3329355/node-js-could-not-configure-a-cxx-compiler/5659811#5659811 , but i still get the same error
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[21:34] TheJH: burg, then I don't know how you can do it.
[21:35] bentkus: cxx?
[21:35] bentkus: i can imaginae that it is some G++ compiler or smth
[21:35] tbranyen: c++
[21:35] v8bot_:  tbranyen has given a beer to c. c now has 1 beers.
[21:36] catb0t has joined the channel
[21:36] TheJH: c--
[21:36] v8bot_:  TheJH has taken a beer from c. c now has 0 beers.
[21:37] tmzt_: finally
[21:37] tmzt_: it works
[21:37] tmzt_: c--
[21:37] v8bot_:  c is getting too many beers.  Don't let c get drunk!
[21:37] tmzt_: c++
[21:37] v8bot_:  c is getting too many beers.  Don't let c get drunk!
[21:37] tmzt_: overfloweth with beers (or ints)
[21:38] Aria: burg: does the 'c++' program work?
[21:38] bentkus: though wait
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[21:38] burg: you mean compiler?
[21:38] Aria: Yeah.
[21:38] bentkus: you dont need no c++ compiler for node
[21:38] bentkus: its all pure c
[21:38] Aria: Uh, bentkus… have you LOOKED at the source?
[21:38] burg: yes
[21:38] Aria: v8 and parts of node are c++.
[21:38] Aria: Okey, so it's not that. 
[21:38] bentkus: o v8 is c++
[21:38] bentkus: you are right
[21:39] seivan: Anyone here used connect-auth with twitter?
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[21:39] seivan: How do I specify the callback in development mode to go to localhost?
[21:39] Aria: And you're building 0.4.x, burg?
[21:39] seivan: Otherwise I have to write a pin down and etc
[21:39] bentkus: No I havent looked at the sources, have you looked at the v8 sources?
[21:39] burg: Aria, yes
[21:39] burg: ah, it is working now
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[21:40] Aria: Oh good. I was going to say ./configure -v
[21:41] blazeeboy: what flatfile database could work faster with node.js (read/write) process will be too heavy and responsiveness is highly required
[21:41] Aria: Took me a moment to get there since apparently OS X Lion has a new python and my old pyc files were outdated ;-)
[21:41] tbranyen: blazeeboy: lay off the weed blazeboy
[21:41] Aria: blazeeboy: I'm not sure exactly what you're asking there, that looks like three questions in one maybe. 
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[21:42] Aria: blazeeboy: But what are your requirements? ACID? Something where you can tolerate some lost writes? 
[21:42] tmzt_: mysql+handlersocket?
[21:42] Aria: Append-only or random update?
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[21:43] blazeeboy: i'll highspeed database with node.js that can keep up with heavy load read/write process
[21:43] blazeeboy: *i need
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[21:44] burg: how can i set nodejs path when i install npm?
[21:44] isaacs: burg: you mean, how do you set the npm install prefix?
[21:44] tbranyen: blazeeboy: you'll probably want an in-memory solution that is filesystem backed
[21:44] isaacs: burg: npm just gets the nodejs path by looking for the first thing called "node" in the PATH
[21:44] blazeeboy: any solution you recomment ?
[21:44] blazeeboy: *recommend 
[21:45] tbranyen: nope, i think you need to try something for your situation
[21:45] tbranyen: do some research
[21:45] blazeeboy: fine.
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[21:45] tbranyen: if you really need a good solid DB for massive read/writes, hire a database administrator
[21:45] burg: isaacs, one-line-installer for npm tells me: Maybe node is installed, but not in the PATH?
[21:45] tbranyen: if you want to blow up a town you'll need to play with more than matches
[21:46] materialdesigner: burg: $ echo $PATH
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[21:46] materialdesigner: if you can't find the path to your nodejs installation, add it in
[21:46] jesusabdullah: burg: Also, `which node`
[21:46] TheJH: hey isaacs, what do you think about this? (I just ask you because you know much about node and I see that you're here.) http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8498/screenshotpme.png
[21:47] jesusabdullah: What's all that?
[21:47] jesusabdullah: o____o
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[21:47] tbranyen: blazeeboy: noooooo, why'd you leave i didn't mean to be so mean....!
[21:47] tbranyen: look what they've done to my boy
[21:47] TheJH: isaacs, it's a stack trace for this code: https://gist.github.com/1103148
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[21:48] TheJH: isaacs, the components with zero indent are those you'd normally see in a stacktrace, white indent is outer scope and gray indent is constructor
[21:48] isaacs: burg: set the PATH environment variable then, so that `which node` will find node
[21:48] TheJH: isaacs, what do you think? is it useful?
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[22:00] TheJH: isaacs, you here? :(
[22:03] seivan: Damn
[22:03] seivan: with connect, how would one get user details from a logged in user?
[22:03] seivan: like twitter name and etc?
[22:03] seivan: connect-auth
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[22:33] mnaser: why does netflix use silverlight -_-
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[22:35] Chani: mnaser: my guess, they were paid to. :)
[22:35] _bat: mnaser: it's DRM-friendly
[22:35] mnaser: that
[22:35] mnaser: that's ,ome tpp
[22:35] mnaser: god damn ever typed something with your keybord aligned one key off
[22:35] Chani: haha
[22:35] mnaser: ^ that's what happens, haha.  but yeah, maybe that's the reason
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[22:57] mscdex: i think netflix is working on an html5 interface
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[23:07] mnaser:   that'd be sweet
[23:07] mnaser: its slow as f on mac
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[23:18] jeromegn: how do I go up the directory tree in node.js? I need to specify the path a template but can't figure out the right way
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[23:19] materialdesigner: can you c/p the relevant code?
[23:19] materialdesigner: normally it'd be ".."
[23:19] jeromegn: jade.renderFile('../views/digest.jade', {
[23:20] jeromegn: ENOENT, No such file or directory \'../views/digest.jade\'
[23:21] materialdesigner: is this for express?
[23:21] materialdesigner: did you setup an app.use(express.static( ) ?
[23:22] materialdesigner: or an app.set('views') ?
[23:22] jeromegn: materialdesigner: yea, but I'm sending an email from a model method
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[23:22] jeromegn: in the models/ directory
[23:24] materialdesigner: unsure without looking at your code
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[23:26] Aria: I think jade would open files relative to the cwd, not the current file
[23:26] Aria: so try __dirname + "/../views/digest.jade"
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[23:27] jeromegn: oh
[23:27] jeromegn: that works
[23:27] jeromegn: thanks
[23:27] jeromegn: I had tried that but didn't realize it was another error this time!
[23:30] jeromegn: all worked out, thanks a bunch
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[23:38] lot49: what's a good pubsub module?
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[23:40] jesusabdullah: lot49: What do you have in mind, exactly?
[23:40] jesusabdullah: I know things about pubsubbery, really!
[23:43] lot49: jesusabdullah: i need a pretty basic pubsub server.  i want to post messages from a rails server.
[23:43] rook2pawn: lot49: dnode serves my needs quite well
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[23:45] lot49: rook2pawn: i'll take a look at that. thanks.
[23:47] slifty_corsair: test
[23:48] rook2pawn: lot49: ask #stackvm if you have any questions on its use
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[23:50] lot49: rook2pawn: kay tahnks
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[23:54] jesusabdullah: lot49: I think Faye was built for ruby/node pubsub
[23:54] jesusabdullah: lot49: dnode also has a beta-quality ruby library
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[23:56] shanebo: Nuck, dude, help a brotha out
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[23:56] brainproxy: lot49: take a look at faye
[23:56] brainproxy: may be what you need, especially for node<-> rails usage
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