[00:00] OneBraveHog: sure - no problem
[00:00] OneBraveHog: sorry about that
[00:00] AvianFlu: does http not check for that?
[00:00] Swizec: apparently not
[00:00] AvianFlu: so what, it hangs silenty?
[00:00] AvianFlu: silently?
[00:00] Swizec: throws one of those ugly uncaught errors
[00:01] AvianFlu: can you paste me the error in a pm?
[00:01] Swizec: sure
[00:01] AvianFlu: I'll show it to someone who may help
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[00:02] AvianFlu: OneBraveHog: https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Installation has installation instructions
[00:02] AvianFlu: from there, it depends on exactly what you're trying to do
[00:02] AvianFlu: and where you want to go with node
[00:03] hever: AvianFlu, Any clue about jquery documentation for node?
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[00:04] syskk: http://pastebin.com/XrNB6Hef spammers are getting better everyday...
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[00:06] motu: hi
[00:06] OneBraveHog: well Avian - what I'm after is just what I CAN do with it 
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[00:06] OneBraveHog: I mean, if I get a static IP ? Can I run my own web server/pages with it ? 
[00:06] OneBraveHog: Does it serve up files if people want to download them ? 
[00:07] OneBraveHog: sounds like it's a web server ? 
[00:07] Aria: It can.
[00:07] OneBraveHog: ok
[00:07] Aria: Like C is a web server. Possibly a little more than C is, but...
[00:07] OneBraveHog: er, like a web server can be written in c ? 
[00:07] motu: OneBraveHog: yes you can
[00:08] OneBraveHog: I'm just starting php, and it LOOKS like I can get past having to do this server side scripting with php and do what I'd need to do with PHP using node.js
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[00:08] mscdex: syskk: start checking for number of misspellings and bad punctuation
[00:08] OneBraveHog: in other words, it LOOKS like node.js is an alternative to asp.net and php and asp (and JSP for that matteR)
[00:08] mscdex: ;)
[00:08] OneBraveHog: is that close ? 
[00:08] motu: nodejs is much simpler then php
[00:08] motu: simpler to learn i think
[00:08] MooGoo: php isnt a webserver
[00:08] gozala has joined the channel
[00:08] MooGoo: generally
[00:09] syskk: eheh\
[00:09] motu: true
[00:09] OneBraveHog: right, I don't look at php as a web server
[00:09] OneBraveHog: but a server side scripting solution for a web server
[00:09] motu: nodejs can be both server and serverside script at same time
[00:09] MooGoo: node has to do the job of apache and php if it is serving web pages
[00:09] OneBraveHog: but sounds like node.js is ALSO A web server ? 
[00:09] OneBraveHog: motu - ok
[00:09] OneBraveHog: I'm getting the picture
[00:09] MooGoo: but there's good modules for that
[00:09] motu: yes exactly
[00:09] MooGoo: like express I guess
[00:09] motu: express is nice
[00:10] motu: have not tried many else
[00:10] MooGoo: if you just go with raw node, there's a lot to do to get a decent web hosting + script enviornment
[00:10] mscdex: OneBraveHog: node is an I/O (+ other things) layer on top of the javascript language
[00:10] motu: agree
[00:10] OneBraveHog: does it seem node has enough momentum that it likely won't go away ? I mean, to invest into a new way of doing things.. I'm cautious.
[00:10] motu: its smart to try without any modules first
[00:10] hever: OneBraveHog, you can write your own webserver using node very easy. It's not a common webserver...
[00:10] OneBraveHog: mscdex- oh, that's news to me.
[00:10] OneBraveHog: I get it
[00:10] OneBraveHog: well, get it more.
[00:11] MooGoo: I wonder if there is mod_node out there
[00:11] OneBraveHog: thanks for insights
[00:11] motu: in nodejs its very easy to setup a webserver
[00:11] motu: to or three lines
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[00:11] motu: maybe a little more but not much
[00:11] OneBraveHog: and thanks to anyone that's making node happen - this comes across as very exciting to me.   All though I'm far far on the sidelines at the moment.
[00:11] MooGoo: it's not so easy to make it into a file server that can dynamicly load scripts and stay running in face of syntax and runtime errors
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[00:11] mscdex: OneBraveHog: so that includes things like networking, file system calls, etc. there are also core built-in libraries to make these things easier -- including an http server and client and tcp/udp server and client
[00:12] hever: motu, but really those "webservers" are nothing compared to "real" ones....
[00:12] motu: true
[00:12] motu: usally everyone use a proxy in front of nodejs
[00:12] motu: like nginx or apache
[00:12] AvianFlu: OneBraveHog: I had to leave the room but you can tweet @NodeKohai with any questions, it will pipe them to the #nodesupport room
[00:12] MooGoo: not so sure how a single node process would do serving up a real popular website
[00:12] OneBraveHog: wow- that's neat - thanks for the info avian.
[00:13] mscdex: OneBraveHog: then there are 3rd party modules that create higher level abstractions on top of the core modules, like Express.js
[00:13] motu: MooGoo: should go fine with something like node-cluster
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[00:13] MooGoo: something that spawns additional node child processes?
[00:13] motu: to scale you just need to run many nodejs serves in paralell 
[00:14] motu: and loadbalance between them, with apache or nginx
[00:14] motu: or your own 
[00:14] hever: OneBraveHog, If you're looking for a solution for really special needs and you're going to develope some stuff yourself node is a good way to go
[00:14] MooGoo: I wish there was a better way to share state between seperate node processes
[00:14] motu: unix sockets?
[00:14] OneBraveHog: hever- I see- lets you get low lower level I see. 
[00:14] MooGoo: maybe....
[00:14] motu: dnode?
[00:14] hever: OneBraveHog, and it's very "interesting" to write JavaScript serverside. It's very different from PHP, python, perl and so on ;)
[00:15] MooGoo: and that would save me from serializing everything and message passing?
[00:15] MooGoo: whats dnode do exactly
[00:15] mscdex: OneBraveHog: if you're interested in some tutorials/more information, check out these sites: http://nodeguide.com/ http://nodebeginner.org/ http://nodetuts.com/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo_B4LTHi3I http://howtonode.org/
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[00:15] OneBraveHog: mscdex- more than I could ask for - thanks - I'm off to check it out right now.
[00:15] motu: DNode: Asynchronous Remote Method Invocation for Node.js and the Browser 
[00:16] MooGoo: well that explains everything
[00:16] motu: hehe
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[00:16] motu: i have not used it myself
[00:16] hever: OneBraveHog, Just for your interest. Using apache you could write your own apache modules using C/C++ or your can use mod_perl and directly influence the webserver calls. (Not like just using perl)
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[00:16] tuhoojabotti: {title.attr("href"): article} How can I make this work? :P
[00:16] motu: i agree it should be easier to communicate between nodejs instances
[00:17] SubStack: it is!
[00:17] tuhoojabotti: Hmm
[00:17] MooGoo: tuhoojabotti obj[title.attr('href')] = article
[00:17] motu: have not been needing it yet so have not tried many solutions
[00:17] tuhoojabotti: I'm not even sure wether I want that or not :D
[00:17] motu: SubStack: i guess its not very difficult
[00:17] SubStack: dnode({ zing : function (x, cb) { cb(x + 1000) }).listen(5000)
[00:17] hever: OneBraveHog, And from nodes sight. It's more like, you can also write a webserver or run it as webserver.
[00:18] motu: cool
[00:18] SubStack: dnode.connect(5000, function (remote) { remote.zing(3, console.log) }) // prints 3000
[00:18] MooGoo: ok
[00:18] MooGoo: so it does message passing
[00:18] hever: OneBraveHog, I'm for example just using it for fast parallel fetching and processing of data. No webserver. anyway have phun!
[00:18] motu: im going to need this very soon
[00:19] rick_h_: eldavojohn writes "Last year Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen filed suit against eleven tech companies citing patent infringement on four of his patents. Groklaw has followed up with some interesting documents that reveal three out of the four have already been granted a reexamination by the USPTO with the fourth still pending."
[00:19] motu: im writing a background queue in redis and nodejs
[00:19] SubStack: MooGoo: it's more general in that you can pass callbacks around
[00:19] motu: using bpop in redis
[00:19] MooGoo: yea
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[00:19] MooGoo: I mean
[00:19] motu: works very nice indeed
[00:19] MooGoo: its not passing callbacks
[00:19] SubStack: MooGoo: in that example there was nothing special about cb, it could have been as the first argument or nested arbitrarily deeply
[00:19] MooGoo: its passing a pointer to the callback
[00:19] SubStack: yes
[00:20] MooGoo: you couldnt pass a function from parent to child and expect it to retain access to its closure
[00:20] SubStack: yes you can
[00:20] motu: what i realy need is a way of havinf lots of nodejs process running on different servers and some way of them knowing about eachother
[00:20] SubStack: because the functions execute on the side they were defined on
[00:20] MooGoo: not if you run the function on the child
[00:20] MooGoo: yea...
[00:21] SubStack: it works exactly like if the functions were both in the same node process
[00:21] SubStack: except that you can't explicitly return, you've got to pass in callbacks
[00:21] MooGoo: also true
[00:21] MooGoo: so
[00:21] MooGoo: how do you work with
[00:21] MooGoo: return functions
[00:21] MooGoo: just wrap around it
[00:21] MooGoo: or is there a more convienent way
[00:22] MooGoo: could I just do
[00:22] motu: passing reference can be a bit wierd in node sometimes
[00:22] MooGoo: parent.arbitrary.nested.func(arg1, arg2)
[00:22] motu: i guess at least for people not used to javascript
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[00:23] MooGoo: I guess dnode does a good job abstracting away all the serializing and message passing
[00:23] MooGoo: I've written code that does the same
[00:23] MooGoo: its a pain
[00:23] MooGoo: wish there was a more direct way
[00:23] MooGoo: is what im saying
[00:23] tuhoojabotti: How can I make the title "point" to the jQuery object like myArticles[title] gives me the jQuery object :3
[00:23] tuhoojabotti: I can't think
[00:23] MooGoo: especily when you have to stringify then parse JS objects between two js interperters
[00:23] MooGoo: seems wasteful
[00:24] Aria: Like shared memory?
[00:24] motu: mm
[00:24] Aria: A limited sort?
[00:24] motu: shared memory is fun!
[00:24] Aria: I, for one, hope that someone hacks shared memory into v8 some time.
[00:24] MooGoo: MAYBE
[00:24] motu: shard over network is even more fun!
[00:24] MooGoo: I dunno
[00:25] motu: you probably going to need some very expensive network technology
[00:25] MooGoo: isnt there some native v8 datatype that can be passed in binary
[00:25] motu: realy
[00:25] MooGoo: its more of a question
[00:25] MooGoo: I dunno shit really
[00:25] motu: hehe dont know
[00:26] Aria: v8 has nothing like that, not with its GC weirdness.
[00:26] tim_smart: rauchg: Yo, around? Quick mongoose quick regarding multple connections.
[00:26] SubStack: MooGoo: yes you can call functions nested wherever with as many functions nested however strangely
[00:26] SubStack: MooGoo: you can even have circular refs
[00:27] tim_smart: mongoose question*
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[00:28] motu: some discovery protocol and dnode in the same package/module would be nice 
[00:28] motu: please make it someone
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[00:29] motu: a decentralized system would be nice
[00:29] motu: no need for a master
[00:31] motu: it could be super cool, just install the node interpreter and start the node, and it could just hook up to the network
[00:31] paul_k has joined the channel
[00:31] motu: download all it needs of packages etc itself
[00:32] motu: could even install npm itself
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[00:41] DelvarWorld: if i'm building my own template language > javascript function processor, can I get away with not making a lexer / parser
[00:42] motu: DelvarWorld: why are you doing that?
[00:43] DelvarWorld: working on an application to process templates into executable code, like <div>{{title}}</div> into return '<div>' + data[title] + '</div>'
[00:43] motu: ok
[00:43] DelvarWorld: haven't done much parsing before, it's kind of overwhelming
[00:43] MooGoo: why not just string.replace
[00:44] motu: you could may even use awk
[00:44] DelvarWorld: well, that's the super-simple example, I would also like things like control blocks (if statements) in the code, and sometimes `data` has to be populated async, and you can nest templates, etc...
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[00:44] motu: depends of how much logic you are have to do
[00:45] MooGoo: so
[00:45] MooGoo: you want something like PHP
[00:45] MooGoo: or ASP
[00:45] DelvarWorld: moreso django's syntax, closer to that
[00:45] MooGoo: so anything wrapped in {{ }}
[00:45] MooGoo: is evaluated as code
[00:46] DelvarWorld: not 1 to 1 javascript code, but it is interpreted 
[00:46] MooGoo: I mean....you might want to use different characters that dont collide with something that could be valid JS
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[00:46] DelvarWorld: no, I don't want actual js code in the templates
[00:47] DelvarWorld: i'm basically making my own template syntax
[00:47] MooGoo: oh
[00:47] MooGoo: is it nestable
[00:47] DelvarWorld: yes
[00:47] MooGoo: then you need to parse
[00:47] DelvarWorld: <div>{{include.html}}</div> will load another template inside it
[00:47] DelvarWorld: I *need* to parse?
[00:48] MooGoo: you might be able to get away without parsing for some basic stuff
[00:48] DelvarWorld: I mean, right now I am just using a regex and recursive function to replace blocks, it's just getting tricky keeping track of state since my output is a string which becomes the function body
[00:49] motu: DelvarWorld: u should check out : https://github.com/visionmedia/jade/tree/master/lib
[00:49] DelvarWorld: haha, I was just looking at that
[00:49] motu: looks good to me
[00:50] motu: i guess u could modify that alot to your need
[00:50] DelvarWorld: I'm just brand new to parsers and it's a little confusing to walk through
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[00:50] MooGoo: I really....dont like html templates that dont use html
[00:50] motu: MooGoo: jade is very fast to write 
[00:51] MooGoo: but yea....the jade github has a lexer.js and parser.js in the index
[00:51] motu: yepp
[00:51] MooGoo: anything remotly complex needs a parser
[00:51] motu: alot of regexps
[00:51] MooGoo: its a bitch to get going...but once you have your parser running you have a lot more options
[00:51] MooGoo: than relying on pure regex
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[00:52] MooGoo: lexing isnt hard
[00:52] DelvarWorld: do you have any suggested literature on the subject
[00:52] DelvarWorld: do you think I could get away with hacking into jade
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[00:53] MooGoo: maybe just check out its parser and lexer.js files
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[00:56] DelvarWorld: once you have a syntax tree from a parser, is a "compiler" the right term for what turns the tree into the final output?
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[00:58] MooGoo: guess so
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[01:02] motu: check jison : http://zaach.github.com/jison
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[01:17] lukstr: DelvarWorld: a compiler back-end, yes
[01:17] lukstr: well, actually still a front-end I guess
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[01:18] lukstr: anything that does lexical analysis, parsing, semantic analysis and code generation/optimization is a compiler of sorts :P
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[01:22] perezd: what version of SSL/TLS does node 0.4.8 speak natively?
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[01:36] DelvarWorld: am I the only person who hasn't written a parser? sometimes I really regret going for an IT degree over CS
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[01:36] perezd: DelvarWorld: I have not written a parser
[01:36] shachaf: DelvarWorld: You don't need a degree in anything to write a parser.
[01:36] Aria: It's a worthy exercise. You don't need a degree n CS for it.
[01:36] shachaf: If you want to write a parser just do it.
[01:37] perezd: you can pay me to write a parser tho, and I'll give you a diploma
[01:37] Aria: There's some clever things you can learn from the theory, but there's a lot you can do by trying. And you might recognize the theory after that.
[01:38] Aria: The real trick is to learn what sort of parser you're working with, and what its limits are, what things are hard.
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[01:42] prettyrobots: DelvarWorld: Read Mastering Regular Expressions.
[01:43] DelvarWorld: prettyrobots: you're not the first to recommend I read that
[01:43] prettyrobots: After you read it, you have a very colloquial way of thinking about the problem.
[01:43] DelvarWorld: are you suggesting it for the use or regular expressions in parsers, or how languages parse regular expressions?
[01:44] killfill: guys, if i set io.listen(app, {rememberTransport: false}) socket.io still remembers the transport... :S
[01:44] killfill: how do i force it to 'hanshake' everytime?
[01:44] prettyrobots: I'm suggesting it because it gives you a working man's guide to patterning matching, and then parsing is no longer in the realm of CS.
[01:44] prettyrobots: You can read the source code for the Eco templating language.
[01:45] prettyrobots: That's a parser that uses regular expressions to create the token stream. Very simple, and an example of what you can do with Node.js.
[01:45] AvianFlu: regex FTW
[01:46] prettyrobots: After learning about regex, it's easy to understand EBNF.
[01:47] MooGoo: EBNF still confuses me
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[01:48] MooGoo: im just lazy
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[01:49] prettyrobots: MooGoo: No. It's just confusing.
[01:49] MooGoo: I almost wish it looked more like regex
[01:49] DelvarWorld: ebnf = ?
[01:49] MooGoo: somehow
[01:50] MooGoo: !w ebnf
[01:50] MooGoo: calvin
[01:50] MooGoo: calvin you're not even in here
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[01:50] MooGoo: !w ebnf
[01:50] Calvin: In computer science, Extended Backus–Naur Form is a family of metasyntax notations used for expressing context-free grammars: that is, a formal way to describe computer programming languages and other formal languages. They are extensions of the basic Backus–Naur Form metasyntax notation.
[01:51] DelvarWorld: ah
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[01:51] MooGoo: understand that crap and you can feel like an elitist CS major
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[01:55] DelvarWorld: the boxed is locked the lights are on, it's _____
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[01:59] resik72: anyone knows if http referrer headers are automatically set w/in expressjs between routes?
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[02:04] AvianFlu: OMG SOMEBODY STOLE MARAK'S HAIR
[02:05] gkatsev: bnfs are easy
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[02:41] lukstr: DelvarWorld: get a copy of the dragon book
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[02:43] e6nian: who use jake here?
[02:44] e6nian: I follow the example in READ.ME https://github.com/mde/jake ,but can't pass params to jake `jake awesome[foo,bar,baz]`
[02:45] e6nian: Task "awesome[foo,bar,baz]" is not defined in the Jakefile.
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[02:47] frewsxcv: which is the most solid module for redis support in node
[02:47] frewsxcv: also, is there a good tutorial?
[02:47] AvianFlu: search.npmjs.org for node-redis
[02:47] AvianFlu: or just redis
[02:50] e6nian: so what's your localtime here.
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[02:51] Aria: 2051
[02:52] e6nian: 10:52
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[02:53] frewsxcv: AvianFlu: node_redis or redis-node
[02:54] AvianFlu: one sec
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[02:57] AvianFlu: frewsxcv: node_redis
[02:57] AvianFlu: matt freney or something is the author
[02:57] frewsxcv: AvianFlu: aight thanks
[02:58] frewsxcv: does redis just hold one value?
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[02:58] frewsxcv: it's just a giant hash table/
[02:58] frewsxcv: ?
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[02:59] Aria: Kinda. Its main interface is keys, which have values of various (few) types.
[02:59] Aria: So in a way, it's a hash table -- really, it's not a hash, it's a much more sophisticated structure, especially if you're playing with VM stuff where values can get swapped out.
[02:59] SuperJS: hi, i was wondering anyone using mustache.js for nodejs?
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[03:17] Dinosaurus: what's a way of seeing mongodb performance in my application (sinatara/unicorn/nginx)
[03:17] johnnywengluu: Is there a way to create a custom event with socket.io?
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[03:21] SuperJS: hello so no one has use mustache with nodejs eh?
[03:21] Aria: I'm sure lots of people have.  
[03:22] SuperJS: oh cool 
[03:22] gkatsev: there are even several projects inspi~red by it
[03:23] SuperJS: I have a question about it
[03:23] tbranyen: SuperJS: its in NPM
[03:23] tbranyen: so yeah... people are using it
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[03:24] SuperJS: i am stuck on how to use it with the server, i am using mu.js, but when I google it, it tells me to use to_html() method, but it was not found in the mu.js
[03:25] tbranyen: no idea what mu.js is, but to_html is a method on the mustache object
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[03:26] SuperJS: this was linked to here https://github.com/raycmorgan/Mu from the http://mustache.github.com/ (main site)
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[03:27] e6nian: who use jake here? can you use params in jake?
[03:27] gkatsev: SuperJS: how are you "using" mu.js?
[03:28] akshatj: woot! installed node on my shiny new ec2 instance
[03:29] SuperJS: i followed the demo using Mu.render, but i am not sure how do I display the output into html format
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[03:33] tbranyen: wow Mu looks ridic shitty
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[03:33] tbranyen: can you not feed it just a template string? all i'm seeing is filename
[03:34] Dinosaurus: you could add that in 9.23 seconds if it doesn't
[03:34] jslatts: anyone know what EV_P_ refers to in libev?
[03:34] jslatts: and likewise, EV_A_?
[03:35] tbranyen: Dinosaurus: prove it
[03:35] Dinosaurus: prove what? that you can edit javascript files? o_O
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[03:36] tbranyen: Dinosaurus: lol i would never ever edit core 3rd party source
[03:36] SuperJS: yeah the main site of mustache referred me to Mu.js for using nodejs
[03:37] SuperJS: i am confused whether to use this 
[03:37] Dinosaurus: use jade
[03:37] johnnywengluu: http://cloud9ide.posterous.com/
[03:37] tbranyen: SuperJS: mustache.js works as well
[03:37] tbranyen: there is a node module for it
[03:37] tbranyen: its probably slower
[03:37] gkatsev: you can also use nun, which isn't mustache itself, but similar. And faster.
[03:37] tbranyen: but doesn't make you do a bunch of bs like Mu does
[03:38] gkatsev: there is also milk
[03:38] gkatsev: which implements mustache in coffeescript
[03:38] gkatsev: and mustachio
[03:38] gkatsev: also, stache
[03:38] SuperJS: ah wow cool
[03:39] mscdex: there ought to be a git command like this: git -r done
[03:39] mscdex: :-D
[03:39] gkatsev: while nun, as I said above, is almost mustache. And has great docs, at least last time I checked. Not sure how well the others are documented
[03:40] gkatsev: SuperJS: search.npmjs.og
[03:40] gkatsev: oops
[03:40] gkatsev: SuperJS: search.npmjs.org
[03:40] Dinosaurus: johnnywengluu do you run cloude9 from home
[03:40] johnnywengluu: Dinosaurus: yeah .. works great .. and you?
[03:40] Dinosaurus: i haven't used it
[03:40] johnnywengluu: i mean i run the offline version
[03:40] Dinosaurus: i see
[03:42] SuperJS: oh cool thanks, so basically avoid using Mu.js right? hehe
[03:42] gkatsev: yeah, it seems to be weird.
[03:43] tbranyen: gkatsev: Nun doesn't seem to allow you to provide it a string template either
[03:43] tbranyen: what is with these guys
[03:43] gkatsev: tbranyen: it doesnt?
[03:43] tbranyen: https://github.com/akaspin/nun/blob/master/index.js
[03:43] tbranyen: none of its public methods indicate it does
[03:44] tbranyen: so useless
[03:44] tbranyen: especially if you aren't storing templates in files
[03:45] gkatsev: tbranyen: yeah, it doesnt. Weird.
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[03:45] Dinosaurus: why would you not store template in file tho
[03:46] gkatsev: if they're small, what's the point?
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[03:46] Dinosaurus: organization :D
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[03:46] tbranyen: Dinosaurus: you may be using git version control, a database, shared memory, etc
[03:46] tbranyen: its closed minded to rely on files
[03:47] Dinosaurus: wut?
[03:47] tbranyen: what part wasn't clear?
[03:47] Dinosaurus: git version control?
[03:48] tbranyen: yeah if you're in a bare repo you can't just point to a file and load it, especially if you've packed your objects dir
[03:49] tbranyen: anything other than the currently checked out head won't be accessible in a non bare repo
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[03:49] Dinosaurus: oh
[03:50] tbranyen: so basically if you wanted to use Mu or nun, you'd have to load in your template, write it out to a file, and then load it in
[03:50] tbranyen: which is kind of lame
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[04:29] beriberikix: I'm trying to read a JSON file and then parse it
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[04:30] beriberikix: In the filereader, console.log prints out fine, but when I return out as a module, its undefined
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[04:30] beriberikix: I've tried both async and sync - any ideas?
[04:31] Aria: return it as a module?
[04:31] blueadept: anyone know of a good way to autoload content on scroll?
[04:32] blueadept: sort o flike Aza's site: http://www.azarask.in/blog/
[04:36] beriberikix: any help debugging this filereader code? http://pastebin.com/Gcy4yPWv
[04:36] tbranyen: beriberikix: don't use readFileSync
[04:36] tbranyen: use just readFile
[04:36] tbranyen: readFileSync doesn't take a callback
[04:38] tbranyen: beriberikix: http://pastebin.com/0PCbUcG2
[04:39] tbranyen: line 5 should be console.log(json)
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[04:48] SuperJS: hi can someone link me the correct mustache.js, all i have is this link https://github.com/janl/mustache.js/raw/master/mustache.js? Because I am having this error: TypeError: Object #<Object> has no method 'to_html'
[04:51] beriberikix: thanks tbranyen
[04:51] beriberikix: but its still throwing undefined outside the callback
[04:51] gkatsev: SuperJS: post a snippet of what you're trying to do?
[04:52] tbranyen:  beriberikix because you can't use anything outside the callback
[04:52] SuperJS:  @gkatsev res.write(Mustache.to_html(template, actions[0].view))
[04:52] tbranyen: unless you use a synchronous approach
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[04:53] tbranyen: beriberikix: just move all your code to be inside the callback
[04:53] beriberikix: Hmm
[04:53] beriberikix: I'm trying to do this: http://pastebin.com/rvTfHsBq
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[04:54] gkatsev: SuperJS: hm.. that should work. Is the file being included correctly?
[04:54] gkatsev: are you requireing the file?
[04:55] SuperJS: @gkatsev yes, var Mustache = require('./mustache'), where mustache.js is in the local directory
[04:55] gkatsev: SuperJS: ah, that's why.
[04:56] gkatsev: because that file just creates a variable called Mustache.
[04:56] SuperJS: ah ic ic
[04:57] gkatsev: not sure how to fix it, lol
[04:57] SuperJS: lol
[04:57] gkatsev: well, you could read the file in and then eval it :)
[04:58] SuperJS: @gkatsev cause alot of website tutorial are using this and claim it works lol
[04:58] gkatsev: are they?
[04:58] SuperJS: yeah lol
[04:59] tbranyen: FAILURES: 12/17 assertions failed (44ms)
[04:59] tbranyen: god damnit
[04:59] pplante: crutex: maybe you ought to try out a persona for a few minutes before switching? ;)
[04:59] gkatsev: tbranyen: ha
[04:59] gkatsev: tbranyen: know how to solve SuperJS's problem, though?
[04:59] tbranyen: gkatsev: whats his problem?
[04:59] crutex: pplante i couldn't talk in a channel with that name
[05:00] gkatsev: tbranyen: he's trying to require mustache.js but then he doesn't get the actual object that is Mustache.
[05:00] tbranyen: right it doesn't export it
[05:00] tbranyen: use the node module
[05:00] tbranyen: npm install mustache
[05:00] gkatsev: oh, right, it exists, for got about it.
[05:00] gkatsev: tbranyen: but is there an easy way to add files like that, do you know?
[05:00] SuperJS: ah 
[05:00] tbranyen: or edit the core file and add module.exports = Mustache
[05:01] tbranyen: or create your own wrapper
[05:01] gkatsev: or read the file in and then eval it, as I said :)
[05:01] tbranyen: right thats what i meant by wrapper
[05:01] gkatsev: ok
[05:01] tbranyen: yeah i wish there was an easier way
[05:01] gkatsev: SuperJS: yeah,  I guess npm install mustache is what you should try first
[05:01] tbranyen: like have all the globals resolve to the module
[05:01] tbranyen: lua does that
[05:02] gkatsev: 
ACTION writes a module to include js files. It will read it in via file IO and then eval it.

[05:02] gkatsev: though, it won't eval it in the right env
[05:02] gkatsev: hm...
[05:02] tbranyen: yeah and there isn't a way to capture globals
[05:02] tbranyen: or locals for that matter
[05:03] gkatsev: tbranyen: sure there is. (function(){return this;})()
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[05:03] tbranyen: var Mustache; (function() { Mustache = {}; })(); without knowing the name how do you get mustache in another scope?
[05:03] tbranyen: you can't
[05:04] gkatsev: I could say under usage: var loadFile = require("loadfile").(function(){return this;}); heh
[05:04] tbranyen: you could write a native module in node.js to do it
[05:04] tbranyen: and read in the global scope variables
[05:04] tbranyen: and attach them to a local scope
[05:04] tbranyen: object
[05:04] tbranyen: called globals or something
[05:05] tbranyen: var module = require('mustache').globals.Mustache;
[05:05] gkatsev: well, that requires rewriting require, no?
[05:05] tbranyen: actually wonder if you could do that with a for in loop
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[05:05] tbranyen: gkatsev: o right, it'd be have to be called something else
[05:07] gkatsev: anyway, I'm going to sleep now.
[05:07] gkatsev: night
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[05:10] tbranyen: later
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[05:17] mbrochh: Hey guys. With node.js is it somehow possible to subscribe to timed events? Like when the time turns 2AM then do something? 
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[05:17] Aria: Yes, ish. You can figure out when that is in seconds from now, then setTimeout for then.
[05:18] DelvarWorld: you could use a combination of setTimout and setInterval for...
[05:18] brownies: is this on your server? why not just do a cron job?
[05:18] DelvarWorld: shut up Aria
[05:18] Aria: And cron is a royal pain in the ass to signal something that you've already got persistently running.
[05:18] Aria: It's adding another dependency. And not neccesarily one that's easy to automatically instantiate.
[05:18] Aria: Even if cron is nearly universal.
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[05:19] mbrochh: brownies, I want it to be backed by a couchDB where users can schedule their jobs via a web interface.
[05:20] Aria: Basically Cron 2.1
[05:20] brownies: yea, fair, Aria
[05:21] DelvarWorld: settimeout/interval return ids that you can store in couch, and stop them if needed with clearTimeout
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[05:23] SuperJS: yeah thanks guys, npm install rocks
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[05:43] Gurpartap: MongoDB or Redis for a simple learning experience project with user auth etc?
[05:44] blkcat: Gurpartap: they're completely different databases. :)
[05:44] Gurpartap: yeah, trying to figure out what i need.
[05:44] Gurpartap: coming from sql background. :)
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[05:45] blkcat: you're probably looking for mongo.
[05:49] Gurpartap: thanks mate
[05:49] Gurpartap: :)
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[05:55] itissid: hey has someone debugged with nodeinspector on a node server running on a remote machine?
[05:56] itissid: I am able to debug on my machine here but not my server
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[06:18] Marak: node.js party time
[06:18] Marak: ryah where you at!
[06:18] Marak: come drink beer with us, the keg is still too full
[06:19] Aria: Man, wish I was in SF right now.
[06:19] Aria: Sounds like fun.
[06:19] Marak: :-D
[06:20] chapel: Marak: you should setup a live cam next time, and have like live chats
[06:21] chapel: so people can interact with party goers without being there
[06:22] itissid: I ll ask again.. has someone debugged with nodeinspector on a node server running on a remote machine?
[06:22] itissid: I am able to debug on my local machine here but not my remote server
[06:24] itissid: anyone?
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[06:30] brainproxy: just curious, has anyone seen attempts or attempted to link node.js to a non-js DOM implementation like CplusplusDOM?
[06:31] Aria: I think I saw someone who'd worked on binding it to webkit recently.
[06:32] brainproxy: jsdom is a neat project, but it seems like it would struggle under a heavy load
[06:32] brainproxy: otoh, I've not stress tested it, so i could be wrong
[06:32] Aria: It's not THAT fast for level2 and level3, what with live lists for various outputs.
[06:32] Aria: And various parts could be optimized.
[06:32] Aria: But l1 is much faster.
[06:33] brainproxy: sure
[06:33] itissid: Is Remote debugging with node inspector possible?
[06:33] Aria: I believe so, itissid. 
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[06:33] brainproxy: itissid: yeah, i was doing it some time ago, haven't recently though
[06:34] brainproxy: I remember I had to jump through a few hoops to make it work right
[06:34] itissid: brainproxy, So once you start the debugger you go to someURI:8080/?debug_port=5858 right?
[06:34] itissid: I mean that does not work out of the box
[06:34] itissid: for me
[06:34] brainproxy: itissid: no, I think I used ssh port forwarding
[06:34] itissid: Damn
[06:35] itissid: But if the ports are open why should I need any forwarding
[06:36] brainproxy: not sure, I just remember that being part of what made it work for me, at least I'm pretty sure
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[06:36] itissid: brainproxy, ok so ssh forwarding of port 8080?
[06:37] brainproxy: itissid: so long as the request seems to be originating from localhost, I don't think the port on the side your web browser will connect to has to be 8080
[06:37] brainproxy: ssh -L 9999:localhost:8080 ...
[06:38] brainproxy: again, I'm working from a foggy memory dating back to Jan of this year, sorry
[06:39] brainproxy: Aria: so for intensive use of server-side DOM, you think a C++ binding to facilities of webkit or chromium DOM lib holds promise?
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[06:40] Aria: I do. But it might take a fair bit of work, since naiive bindings in C++ land can get quite a performance penalty.
[06:40] Aria: But Chromium, of course, has crankshaft optimizations for the bindings specifically.
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[06:41] brainproxy: is it possible for node hackers to leverage some of those same optimization techniques .. I'm at the cusp of investigating these things, sorry if the questions seem naive
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[06:42] Aria: Absolutely. But it's gotta be integrated tightly with v8, so it takes some buy-in from them. I don't know the full details, but V8 does some crazy specific things sometimes.
[06:42] brainproxy: up till now I've been all happy w/ pure JS implementations of my stuff, but have some special needs now
[06:42] Aria: So basically, you have to get it to do more crazy specific things.
[06:42] Aria: Yeah. a good fast DOM is gonna be hard to come by. Even Chromium's isn't gonna get hit 1000 times a second.
[06:43] Aria: It's fast, but it's fast for small numbers of pages interacting at user speed.
[06:43] brainproxy: I saw a lib called node-o3-something
[06:43] Aria: Not perhaps the same league as server-side apps chiurning out huge amounts of data.
[06:43] brainproxy: but that's for xml dom
[06:43] Aria: Yeah, XML is much simpler.
[06:43] Aria: strict!
[06:43] brainproxy: :)
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[06:45] brainproxy: I'd like for the server-side app to be able to keep a live DOM representation of some resources which are composites of smaller resources, and which trigger updates to the composed representation in an evented manner
[06:45] brainproxy: on the browser side, it's fine
[06:46] brainproxy: getting a symmetric implementation on the server is harder
[06:46] Aria: Yeah.
[06:46] brainproxy: hence, the desire for a high performance server-side DOM :)
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[06:52] Matias: Hello
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[06:53] Matias: I have a script that does http.request(options, myFunc(response) { console.log(response); }). somehow it doesn't work but if I replace "request" and I use "get" instead, it does work
[06:53] chapel: what do your options look like Matias?
[06:53] Matias: it never calls myFunc
[06:54] Matias: just normal, host, port, method, path
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[06:54] chapel: well, you can do function myfunc(response)
[06:54] chapel: or function(response)
[06:55] chapel: or myfunc)
[06:55] Matias: uh?
[06:55] Matias: I can, http.get(...) works well, the problem is using http.request
[06:55] chapel: you can specify a named function you are creating for the callback, or an anonymous function, or a named function called elsewhere
[06:55] chapel: idk
[06:55] chapel: gist the whole code example
[06:56] SuperJS: hi guys, for mustache.js how do you pass the whole variable to the html template. for example, var data = { "persion" : { "name": "Bart", "age": 100}, "school": {"name": "Springfield"} . I want to put the variable data in the template.html, is there a way?
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[07:02] mplabs: I'm sorry, I lost my connection
[07:02] mplabs: I said, here is a test case: http://pastebin.com/NVKE6Xym
[07:03] mplabs: if I replace "request" for "get" it works wel
[07:03] mplabs: well*
[07:03] mplabs: what am I missing?
[07:03] SuperJS: hi guys, for mustache.js how do you pass the whole variable to the html template. for example, var data = { "persion" : { "name": "Bart", "age": 100}, "school": {"name": "Springfield"} . I want to put the variable data in the template.html, is there a way?
[07:05] mplabs: in fact I tried using mehotd: 'GET' but it doesn't woek either
[07:05] mplabs: work*
[07:05] mplabs: I think I should sleep, it's 4am and I'm starting to have lot of typos lol
[07:05] jslatts: mplabs: why don't you use express?
[07:06] mplabs: express?
[07:06] mplabs: because I don't know what is express
[07:06] jslatts: express is a nice mvc framework that makes serving pages much nicer
[07:06] chapel: mplabs
[07:07] jslatts: http://expressjs.com/
[07:07] mplabs: interesting
[07:07] chapel: its because you didn't do var req = http.request({})
[07:07] chapel: also http.request is for getting stuff from a server
[07:07] chapel: not for starting a server
[07:07] chapel: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.8/api/http.html#http.request
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[07:08] mplabs: I think you didn't get the code
[07:08] mplabs: I have a server running on port 80
[07:08] mplabs: and I want to get its content
[07:08] chapel: okay
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[07:09] mplabs: it's weird because even if I use method: 'GET' it doesn't work, and I bet it's the same as using http.get({...}) which works!
[07:10] chapel: http://pastebin.com/SuLkhW0W
[07:10] chapel: http.get does the req.end call already
[07:10] mplabs: oh
[07:10] chapel: the problem is you aren't actually making the request until you do req.write() then req.end() or just req.end()
[07:10] chapel: read the docs :)
[07:10] chapel: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.8/api/http.html#http.request
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[07:11] mplabs: you got it! thank you so much guys :)
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[07:16] jslatts: chapel: psh. docs. 
[07:16] jslatts: chapel: read the code! :P
[07:17] chapel: rtfc
[07:17] chapel: :)
[07:17] jslatts: everytime I am about to ask a question, i always go "shit, i should go grep the source" and then i answer it
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[07:18] mplabs: I know it was my fault, the answer was just bellow the code example, I'm sorry :P
[07:19] jslatts: mplabs: no worries. the docs can be hard to navigate at first if you have no context
[07:19] chapel: it happens
[07:19] jslatts: i spent all day looking at the libev docs before they started to make any sense
[07:21] jslatts: why am i getting \r instead of a string??? grrr
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[07:26] pplante: has anyone setup vows to use growl notifications?
[07:27] chapel: jslatts: what are you trying to do?
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[07:29] jslatts: chapel: i have a struct returning from an addon I am writing. The struct has a string value and some numbers. The string shows up in node.js javascript-side when I do a winston.info() to log it, but when i stringify it and send it over the socket to my client, it shows up as an empty string
[07:29] jslatts: maybe i have just had too much beer.
[07:29] chapel: probably
[07:30] jslatts: too bad gdb won't tell me that
[07:31] jslatts: it really is making me crazy
[07:31] pplante: ha that would be an awesome error from gdb
[07:32] jslatts: time to bust out nodemon
[07:32] jslatts: err, node-inspector
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[07:33] mplabs: is there any better way to get the content of the page you are .request()ing than to add an event 'data' with a callback to get it?
[07:33] mplabs: it'll be just plain text
[07:33] pplante: its not about the content of the page, its because the call is async
[07:34] jslatts: does anyone know how to make node-inspector auto-break on the first line?
[07:34] pplante: jslatts: cant you use the debugger statement?
[07:35] jslatts: it doesn't break for that
[07:35] pplante: should be able to put that anywhere and pause
[07:35] mplabs: it was --breakl or something like that, let me check
[07:35] pplante: ooh hm
[07:35] jslatts: i'll try it again, but last time i did, it was ignoring it
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[07:36] mplabs: --start-brk
[07:36] mplabs: there it is
[07:37] mplabs: (http://howtonode.org/debugging-with-node-inspector)
[07:37] mplabs: so I always have to add a callback to do the request and another one to get the content?
[07:37] mplabs: pplante
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[07:37] jslatts: hrm, thats new
[07:39] jslatts: hah, its crashing the debugger
[07:40] pplante: mplabs: yes you do
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[07:40] pplante: however you could use http.get() to shortcut some of it
[07:40] pplante: http://nodejs.org/docs/latest/api/http.html#http.get
[07:43] mplabs: I think I don't get something
[07:44] mplabs: oh, never mind, I was mixing the data event in the request object with the data event in the response object :P
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[07:46] itissid: Feels like knockout.js is the best thing to happen to webdevelopers
[07:46] itissid: NO more writing tons of jquery boiler plate
[07:46] pplante: what
[07:46] SuperJS: anyone know how to pass a JSON object from nodejs to mustache.js template?
[07:46] v_y: is knockout.js similar to backbone.js?
[07:47] itissid: v_y its backbone on steroids
[07:47] v_y: : |
[07:47] v_y: sounds scary
[07:47] itissid: v_y,  it has a templating system..
[07:47] v_y: my templating system or a new one?
[07:47] v_y: lol
[07:47] itissid: jQuey templating system only... 
[07:47] v_y: what else does it do that backbone doesn't
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[07:48] pplante: apparently the kitchen sink
[07:48] itissid: v_y, Well one thing is that it is having this incremental change idea
[07:49] itissid: Like if an array in your model changes
[07:49] jslatts: i am a fan of spine now
[07:49] itissid: then only a specific part of the DOM will be rerendered
[07:49] jslatts: instead of backbone
[07:49] v_y: spine?
[07:49] itissid: jslatts, you should look at knockout also
[07:50] jslatts: spin.js
[07:50] v_y: jslatts: and what does that have on backbone?
[07:50] jslatts: http://maccman.github.com/spine/
[07:50] jslatts: v_y: it has less
[07:50] v_y: ok
[07:50] v_y: that's always good
[07:50] jslatts: v_y: which is why i like it. 
[07:51] jslatts: v_y: bacbone gets to be a PITA when you stop using it against a restful endpoint
[07:51] itissid: jslatts, MVVC is better than MVC  for JS apps
[07:51] jslatts: and instead want to replace sync w/ something over socket.io for instance
[07:51] itissid: which is implemented by knoockout
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[07:51] v_y: ah
[07:52] jslatts: i haven't tried knockout, but backbone can do incremental updates, as can spine
[07:52] v_y: sorry, waht are incremental updates?
[07:52] jslatts: i assume he meant just redrawing one piece of the DOM
[07:52] itissid: v_y, Like if you have a list of elements that is listeneg to an array and you change 1 element of the array...
[07:53] itissid: blah blah..
[07:53] v_y: aah
[07:53] v_y: wow
[07:53] itissid: But the templating system is critical
[07:53] jslatts: itissid: they all do templating
[07:53] v_y: yeah i miss the ability to override get and set as in python
[07:53] itissid: jslatts, DO they have dependent observables?
[07:54] jslatts: i dont know, what are those
[07:54] mplabs: what is the method I should use to send parameters on a POST request? I bet it's not "path"
[07:54] pplante: v_y: well once ecmascript5/harmony takes over you can do just that...but yeah
[07:54] mplabs: (I mean, the path option in the .request() method)
[07:54] itissid: Like if say i am listening to 2 observables and a third observable dependent on some sort of composition of those 2 observables
[07:54] itissid: jslatts, ^
[07:55] itissid: jslatts, Like say First name and last name were 2 text labels that were being listened to and a third label was Full name
[07:56] itissid: was added
[07:56] jslatts: itissid: as in, listen for updates on specific DOM objects?
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[07:58] itissid: jslatts, So 2 DOM elements "First name" and "last name" are listening to two variables in your model. When you change the two variables the labels get updated.. Now suppose you want to add a 3rd DOM element that is "Full name" but it should be based on those two model variables alone..
[07:58] jslatts: anyone know the best way to convert a Local<string> to a char*?
[07:59] itissid: So fullname will be a dependent observable
[07:59] v_y: you know what would be great? if node could be run in chrome's debugging framework
[07:59] jslatts: itissid: I _think_ you can do that with your own events in backbone, but it would take some work on the dev's part
[07:59] jslatts: v_y: you can...
[08:00] v_y: jslatts: really? how?
[08:00] itissid: v_y, You mean debug using node inspector..
[08:00] jslatts: v_y: node-inspector
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[08:00] itissid: I mean that is already running the JS
[08:00] jslatts: <3 node-inspector
[08:00] v_y: node-inspector
[08:00] jslatts: except when it crashes, like right now
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[08:01] v_y: wow.. just wow
[08:01] v_y: haha
[08:01] itissid: jslatts, it crashes?
[08:01] itissid: Mine does not
[08:01] jslatts: itissid: not normally
[08:01] jslatts: itissid: but something I am doing to it is making it unhappy
[08:01] itissid: jslatts, do you know how to set up node inspector on a remote server ?
[08:01] mplabs: (definitely, request.write() is not the way, at least not when you have an object :P)
[08:02] jslatts: itissid:no, didn't know you coudl
[08:02] jslatts: well, i guess it makes sense. it just gives you a port/ip
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[08:03] itissid: jslatts, You can I dont know how to.. I am guessing some sort of port forwarding that brainproxy was talking about..
[08:03] itissid: I could not understand exactly
[08:04] jslatts: you would have to forward incoming requests to localhost;8080 i think
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[08:04] itissid: jslatts, Oh i think I might have gotten it
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[08:09] jslatts: it boggles the mind that programmers have made dealing with strings across platforms so hard
[08:09] itissid: jslatts, you have no idea
[08:09] itissid: :)
[08:10] itissid: jslatts, C++ is the worst
[08:10] itissid: for strings
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[08:12] jslatts: i figured out that my issue is somewhere here: string goes from js -> c++ as Local<string> -> String::AsciiValue -> char* -> through a message queue -> Local<string>
[08:12] jslatts: after the queue its evaporated
[08:13] itissid: jslatts, What is Local<>? a standard Container clas?
[08:13] jslatts: yes, a handle to the javascript string object
[08:14] jslatts: *sigh* GDB time
[08:14] systemfault: Locale?
[08:15] systemfault: Err
[08:15] systemfault: std::locale is standard..
[08:15] systemfault: If it's something else, it must be node or whatever lib it uses
[08:17] Casperin: I got a question. I use cofffeescript for external files in node (and require to get them). So to access a variable in one such script I do like @foo = 123. But what if I have an external script that needs a variable set in another external file. Is that possible?
[08:20] mplabs: what am I missing? the server dosn't receive any POST variable data, http://pastebin.com/gxctWvbG
[08:21] jslatts: systemfault: it is node
[08:21] mplabs: s/variable//
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[08:24] mplabs: I read some examples and they do the same
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[08:24] mplabs: but it's not sending {foo:'bar'}
[08:27] jslatts: YAY! i got my string
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[08:30] SuperJS: has anyone worked with mustache.js before?
[08:31] jslatts: now i can sleep soundly tonight knowing that my strings can survive the round trip
[08:31] mplabs: :P
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[08:35] v_y: when i invoke `npm install node-inspector`, it creates a node_modules directory. how can i get it to install node-inspector in my path?
[08:35] v_y: i'm following the instructions here: https://github.com/dannycoates/node-inspector#readme
[08:36] jslatts: v_y: install it globally, and add teh global location to your path
[08:37] v_y: how do i install it globally?
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[08:37] chapel: npm install node-inspector -g
[08:37] jslatts: yep
[08:37] jslatts: night all 
[08:38] v_y: aah
[08:38] v_y: night
[08:38] v_y: thanks
[08:38] mplabs: yeah! I just found this post: http://www.theroamingcoder.com/node/111, I had the same problem! there are many "wrong" tutorials out there
[08:39] mplabs: at least here I have to send both headers to actually send the post data, otherwise it's ignored
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[08:40] mplabs: I think it should be in the documentation I couldn't find it there :|
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[08:46] chapel: eh, that is not so much a node problem
[08:46] chapel: its an http thing
[08:46] chapel: also, content-length isn't always needed, depends on the server
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[08:48] mplabs: it's strange there're so many code examples without them, I thing it should work anyway, maybe I'm missing something
[08:48] mplabs: think*
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[08:49] mplabs: ...it's working now just with Content-Type
[08:51] FND: I'm having trouble packaging JSLint Reporter for NPM: after creating package.json and running `npm link`, `require("jslint-reporter")` fails as the module can't be found - any advice?
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[08:53] FND: package.json is here: https://github.com/FND/jslint-reporter/commit/b5c797f8d2f815a0dd0c877ecbda9fbfefb87fd6
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[09:08] selt: not much of a question or anything, but node.js is great. working on some mini project with it, quite fun.
[09:09] selt: preaching to the choir, i guess, though.
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[09:14] Gurpartap: can you write a bit of coffeescript in js files?
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[09:19] adnam: Gurpartap: i'm not that familiar with coffeescript, but i would guess that you would have to write a preprocessor
[09:19] Gurpartap: ah hmm
[09:20] adnam: but why do you want to? Seems like it could get messy to mix the two
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[09:35] dragunov11: how do i see the contents of an object in the console.log ? 
[09:36] chjj: console.log(obj)
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[09:36] dragunov11: chjj: its giving an output of [object Object]
[09:39] dragunov11: somehow it seems to work for other objects, not the one am expecting. thanks
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[09:52] adnam: dragunov11: perhaps it's already been converted to a string, what's typeof obj?
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[10:19] xsyn: Is there a mimedetect module ?
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[10:23] junkee[]: http://search.npmjs.org/#/mime
[10:24] xsyn: rtfm'd
[10:24] xsyn: thanks
[10:25] xsyn: perfect
[10:25] junkee[]: but it just is a map of mime types and file extensions
[10:27] junkee[]: I just lost my space-bar :s
[10:27] Bonuspunkt: spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace
[10:27] chapel: Space is that you?
[10:29] FireFly|n900: space? space!
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[10:29] chapel: Space is the new cake :)
[10:31] xsyn: It's perfect, I just need to get the mimetype so as to attach to couch
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[10:34] chapel: you want to use the mimetypes in couchdb?
[10:36] xsyn: If I'm adding an image as an attachment to a document
[10:36] xsyn: I need the mime/type
[10:36] xsyn: so yeah
[10:37] chapel: yeah
[10:37] chapel: did you know couchdb supports commonjs modules?
[10:38] xsyn: In what way?
[10:38] chapel: in a lot of different ways
[10:38] xsyn: I'm not sure I'm using couch properly
[10:38] xsyn: I'm just runnning my node.app and then pushing/pulling
[10:39] xsyn: via cradle
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[10:40] junkee[]: mööp, my space-bar is working again. My soldering iron and some plastic made the job.
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[10:47] DarkLinkXXXX has joined the channel
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[10:47] DarkLinkXXXX: Hello
[10:47] DarkLinkXXXX: Anyone here?
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[10:51] DarkLinkXXXX: I have a dumb question
[10:52] zeunix: DarkLinkXXXX: you don't need to ask if anyone's here. There usually is several, even this late. Just ask the question straight out and if anyone knows an answer they'll chime in. If you get no responses it's more likely that no one who's online has an answer then wait until a more active time and ask again. :)
[10:54] junkee[]: late? its time for lunch here...
[10:54] zeunix: touché. I guess I was generalizing because most of the people on here are from the states.
[10:54] DarkLinkXXXX: 
ACTION is submitting code to pastebin

[10:55] stagas has joined the channel
[10:55] zeunix: junkee[]: and when I say "most" I'm just referring to my observation of course, not a real statistic :)
[10:55] DarkLinkXXXX: https://gist.github.com/997647
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[10:57] DarkLinkXXXX: Here, I use the express framework to show the files own source code, via res.download
[10:57] DarkLinkXXXX: The problem is, it shows up via attachment, and not in-browser text
[10:58] DarkLinkXXXX: Does anyone have a solution for this?
[10:58] junkee[]: is res.download handling the mime type? just try to set the mime-type to text/javascript
[10:59] DarkLinkXXXX: 
ACTION looks at documentation

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[11:01] DarkLinkXXXX: res.header sounds like it could do something
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[11:01] FireFly|n900: junkee[], if you want actual statistics there's always the node users list on the repository wiki :P
[11:01] DarkLinkXXXX: what is the raw tcp response for a plain text file?
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[11:02] igl1: text/plain
[11:02] igl1: <:
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[11:02] zeunix: DarkLinkXXXX: agreed. I can't imagine the issue is anything but mime-type. How your browser handles the particular mime is another story. May want to text/plain
[11:02] zeunix: ah someone beat me to it
[11:03] cm: How do I restart a script from within the script itself?
[11:05] zeunix: cm: AFAIK the best solution is to spawn the same script as a child then have the parent commit suicide
[11:05] cm: okay, and how would I do that? :/
[11:06] junkee[]: FireFly|n900: The UTC+1(+2) list is not that small. (https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Node-Users)
[11:06] stride: DarkLinkXXXX: check if a content-disposition header is set
[11:06] mbrochh]2 has joined the channel
[11:06] stride: and if it is, setting it to "inline" should help iirc
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[11:08] zeunix: cm: have a look at the supervisor module. may or may not be what you're trying to accomplish. At the very least it's a real world example of using spawn. https://github.com/isaacs/node-supervisor/blob/master/lib/supervisor.js
[11:08] chjj: why is it that every dom library sucks except for prototype?
[11:08] zeunix: cm: otherwise take a look at the node docs section for spawn
[11:08] igl1: cm: child_process.exec(), process.exit()
[11:08] cm: thanks
[11:09] cm: Could I just use supervise, and kill the process and get it to restart it for me?
[11:09] cm: supervisor*
[11:11] zeunix: cm: well what are you really trying to accomplish? :) why does the script need to restart rather then just being inside a function that you call multiple times?
[11:12] cm: It's an IRC bot, and I want to give it the ability to restart
[11:12] cm: not sure what for yet, though XD
[11:12] cm: Code changes and stuff, I guess
[11:12] cm: But just using supervisor for that wouldn't quit the IRC properly
[11:12] chapel: lol
[11:12] chapel: cm http://github.com/chapel/kohai
[11:13] stride: simply use upstart or similar and process.exit when you get the reply to your quit request
[11:13] chapel: if you check lib/kohai.js you can see how I used forever to handle restarting plugin processes
[11:13] cm: chapel: Mine is better :P
[11:13] cm: Oh I see
[11:13] chapel: I doubt that
[11:13] chapel: but feel free to think so
[11:13] chapel: :D
[11:13] zeunix: cm: if it's better, why can't it restart itself ;)
[11:14] cm: humphh :(
[11:14] FireFly|n900: Whoo, I've also rolled my own node IRC bot
[11:14] FireFly|n900: spawn more bots
[11:14] igl1: why would it want to restart?
[11:14] stride: reminds me of the times when irc bots where the hello world of new hip languages, nowadays that's twitter clients.. meh
[11:15] cm: bugs resulting in infinate loops?
[11:15] cm: I found one of them earlier :D
[11:15] stride: s/where/were/
[11:15] FireFly|n900: automagic fetching of new revisions and recompiling/restarting for one thing
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[11:15] chapel: hmm stride did you do a perl replace?
[11:15] chapel: anyways cm, use forever
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[11:16] igl1: fighting recursion with recursion?
[11:16] FireFly|n900: I'd do a shell script wrapper and have a special exit code for 'restart'
[11:16] FireFly|n900: as to avoid accidentally restarting the bot when it should quit
[11:17] chapel: forever is smart
[11:17] chapel: use it
[11:17] chapel: can use it programmatically
[11:17] chapel: dont have to use the cli
[11:18] stride: is there a real plugin system already? which doesn't need to restart the main process when a module changes?
[11:18] chapel: stride: check my link
[11:18] chapel: I just built on
[11:18] chapel: one
[11:18] chapel: :)
[11:19] stride: which one? I only see the kohai link
[11:19] chapel: yeah
[11:19] chapel: that
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[11:19] stride: oh, okay :)
[11:20] zeunix: stride: like https://github.com/kriszyp/nodules ? or?
[11:20] stride: I built one months ago that uses rabbitmq to communicate with plugin processes, which just felt wrong
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[11:20] chapel: dnode baby
[11:20] chapel: works great
[11:20] zeunix: or are we still talking ircbots ?
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[11:21] stride: the commmunication part didn't bother me, rabbitmq was nice for that. it's the spawning of other processes that I didn't like
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[11:22] DarkLinkXXXX: https://gist.github.com/997647
[11:22] stride: zeunix: my use wasn't for irc bots but that nodules thing looks quite nice
[11:22] DarkLinkXXXX: I'm having some problems
[11:22] FireFly|n900: btw, is there any *good* way to do error handling with async callbacks? try { async_func(function() {accidentalError()}) } catch (err) { handleErr(err)} // won't catch the error, obviously
[11:22] DarkLinkXXXX: I document them in the code,
[11:22] FireFly|n900: and having one try-catch for each nested function seems messy..
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[11:23] stride: FireFly|n900: try & catch inside your async_func and provide an error argument to the callback in case some error occured + process.on('uncaughtException' to prevent accidents
[11:23] stride: FireFly|n900: also, slap the developer that makes async stuff throw in the first place
[11:23] FireFly|n900: stride, what I mean is if my callback accidentally throws an error
[11:23] FireFly|n900: for one reason or another
[11:24] zeunix: DarkLinkXXXX: just a quick glance..but you're doing http.response.setHeader() when it should be res.setHeader()
[11:24] stride: don't see why it would really
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[11:24] FireFly|n900: Hrm
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[11:25] stride: zeunix: doesn't he simply send the wrong content-disposition header with express's .download to view it in the browser?
[11:26] stride: FireFly|n900: as for the unexpected part, the uncaughtException handler of process is there to clean your code. if it's unexpected, chances are that you can't recover the current control flow anyway so you might just as well handle it in there
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[11:27] zeunix: stride: well he just left, but I'm not sure why he's using res.download() if he doesn't want the user to download it as an attachment. I think he just wants it displayed as plain text in the browser?
[11:28] stride: yeah, that's what I understood as well
[11:30] zeunix: stride: yea just tested it, he needs to use just plain old .sendfile() and it works like a charm
[11:30] zeunix: stride: if he comes back, pass that along to him, woulda?
[11:31] zeunix: s/woulda/would ya
[11:31] FireFly|n900: stride, hm, I suppose I'll do something in uncaughtException
[11:31] zeunix: using expresses download() intentionally sends it as an attachment for obvious reasons
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[11:44] viz: i'm a bit confused about server-side routes (express) and client-side routes (backbone.js). are there advantages in doing one over the other? what are their different purposes? as far as i know, you can do all your routes (get/post/etc) with either, right?
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[11:52] desdur: on my dev machine node.js spawn a lot of 'node' processes that eat 100% of cpu, what might be the problem?
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[12:12] `3rdEden: desdur how about stop spawning node processes?
[12:13] `3rdEden: Try to make your process run stable before you even consider running more processes
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[12:31] `3rdEden: Any node core ninja's alive here?
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[12:38] drudge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw4KVoEVcr0&feature=player_embedded
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[13:26] Casperin: Using Express, can I access a variable set in app.js in a file that is "imported" with require()?
[13:26] frodenius: not unless it is global
[13:26] `3rdEden: Casperin sure you can just export a function, call it after you required it and feed it your app
[13:26] `3rdEden: require('./yourmodule').init(app)
[13:27] `3rdEden: where `init` is the function that you esported..
[13:27] `3rdEden: exported*
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[13:28] Casperin: I see
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[13:28] Casperin: I'm a bit out of my league here, so I'll have to experiment a bit.. but it sounds easy enough
[13:30] Casperin: so I guess that'll work for a variable set in another external file too
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[13:50] nexxy: esport!
[13:50] nexxy: 
ACTION esports `3rdEden's modules

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[14:17] dan_manges: what's the best practice for dependencies in npm packages? should i bundle them with my package in the node_modules directory, or declare them in the package.json file?
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[14:18] frodenius: dan_manges㇀ package.json
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[14:20] dan_manges: frodenius: thanks. just wondering: why not embed them in the node_modules directory?
[14:21] frodenius: that's what every developer should decide
[14:21] frodenius: maybe they share the modules in /usr/lib/...
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[14:42] mparodi: Hello
[14:46] akshatj_: http://www.google.com/trends?q=node.js%2C+Jaxer%2C+ringojs&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=3
[14:46] akshatj_: pwnage!
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[14:46] `3rdEden: lol @ russian federation
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[14:48] `3rdEden: Oh, us dutch people are ranked 9 on the languge list for Node.js. ;D Appsterdam == new Silicon Valley
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[14:52] `3rdEden: it's interesting to see the difference in writing node.js or nodejs: http://www.google.com/trends?q=nodejs%2C+node.js&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
[14:54] `3rdEden: Or that node.js actually beats erlang.. http://www.google.com/trends?q=erlang%2C+node.js&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
[14:54] chjj: node.js: 34 million results, nodejs: 446k
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[14:56] chjj: oh man
[14:56] chjj: i just saw that ibm article in the google search
[14:56] chjj: "The initial published version of this article generated a lot of conversation from the community about various points it presented. The author has since revised this article with these ideas in mind. This kind of peer review and discussion is a vital part of the open-source world. Thanks to those who provided constructive input.
[14:56] chjj: Like all open-source projects, Node.js will continue to evolve and developers will discover new resources and techniques to overcome any number of limitations. As always, we encourage our readers to try a technology out for themselves."
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[14:58] akshatj_: `3rdEden, erlang is too much to handle for people like me
[14:59] mraleph: `3rdEden: bullshit beats erlang as well in search trends. but nobody is uses bullshit to write servers. 
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[15:00] akshatj_: mraleph, clearly, you have never seen Java
[15:00] akshatj_: ;)
[15:01] Gargron: hello! excuse me, I need a little help with nodejs installation
[15:01] akshatj_: Gargron, which Distro?
[15:01] charlieistheman: and what kind of trouble are you having?
[15:01] zmbmartin: anyone use forever? how can I user NODE_ENV with forever --> forever start NODE_ENV=production app.js fails
[15:02] Gargron: ubuntu 10.04 lucid; I did install it quite properly, I can run stuff with /opt/node/node test.js etc, but, I can't run it with just 'node test.js'. also, I can't seem to find the npm executable although I installed it as well
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[15:02] AvianFlu: Gargron: you need to export your path
[15:02] Gargron: how do I do that? more importantly, I think I already did that but does it get reset on each re-login?
[15:03] Gargron: ideally I would need to run nodejs as daemon
[15:03] AvianFlu: a temporary fix is to say `export PATH=$PATH:$HOME/path/to/node/bin/folder
[15:03] AvianFlu: the permanent fix is to put that line in your ~/.bashrc file
[15:04] Gargron: okay, give me a sec
[15:04] AvianFlu: the $HOME part is cause mine got installed under my home folder, obviously whatever path goes there
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[15:05] AvianFlu: zmbmartin: you're using a $, right? like $NODE_ENV?
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[15:05] Gargron: hmm
[15:05] Gargron: so I put "export PATH=$PATH:/opt/node/node " into .bashrc
[15:05] Gargron: it still doesn't work
[15:05] Gargron: oh wait
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[15:05] Gargron: maybe i don't need the last node
[15:06] AvianFlu: it's usually node/bin
[15:06] AvianFlu: or node/local/bin
[15:06] AvianFlu: the bin folder is what you need to reference
[15:06] zmbmartin: AvianFlu: yes
[15:06] AvianFlu: just had to make sure, lol
[15:07] Gargron: :(
[15:07] Gargron: i don't seem to have node/local or bin or anything in the node folder
[15:07] Gargron: anything like that i mean
[15:07] Gargron: so weird
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[15:07] AvianFlu: so what's there
[15:07] AvianFlu: if you installed node you've got a bin folder someplace with node in it
[15:08] Gargron: http://gyazo.com/c5423f9260aa1da730d4a5330af386fc.png this is what is in /opt/node
[15:08] level09: i'm able to start the server, but curl localhost:port is not returning any result
[15:08] level09: what should I check ?
[15:11] AvianFlu: did you run configure Gargron?
[15:12] Gargron: maybe i didn't. would i still be able to execute that one node if i didn't configure?
[15:14] mraleph: akshatj_: Java is not that bad. not fancy pancy but still fine
[15:15] AvianFlu: cause that folder to me looks like you need to do `./configure`, `make`, `make install`
[15:15] AvianFlu: Gargron: those three commands I mentioned compile node
[15:15] AvianFlu: so... there's nothing to run before you do
[15:16] Gargron: hmm, but i could execute it before, so it's strange. maybe i didn't configure and make install, and just make. well anyways, now i run all three of them, and it seems to work. now to the npm problem
[15:16] mparodi: level09, what're you using to start the server?
[15:16] AvianFlu: npm tends to just work based on your node path
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[15:18] Gargron: okay
[15:19] Gargron: now how do i make node run like a daemon?
[15:19] mparodi: someone told me yesterday it's possible to reload the server using the cluster module, I just red its documentation and I didn't found anything like that. any comment in that matter will be appreciated!
[15:19] mparodi: Gargron, what do you want to do?
[15:19] mparodi: read*
[15:20] Gargron: i run nginx for the main site, and i need node to run as well for socket.io
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[15:22] level09: mparodi: i got it , it was my fault
[15:22] level09: thanks
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[15:23] AvianFlu: leaving node in an accessible path should make it available for everything you need
[15:23] mparodi: done! cluster doesn't reload anything by itself, you have to ask it to use the reload plugin, it works pretty well :)
[15:23] AvianFlu: node isn't the daemon, but you can make a daemon that runs on node
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[15:32] fille12: did u read the emilmont post on twitter?
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[15:41] seivan: Has anyone used Amazon load balancer with Node for sockets?
[15:42] mparodi: fille12, url?
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[15:44] crutex: can you imagine a situation where you'd use redis AND mongodb?
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[15:48] johnnywengluu: anyone here has used fil() in jake?
[15:48] johnnywengluu: https://github.com/mde/jake/issues/38
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[15:58] seivan: crutex: Geospatial indexing
[15:58] seivan: crutex: Mongo does that REALLY good.
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[16:07] fille12: mparodi http://blog.nelsonsilva.eu/2010/12/14/go-vs-scala-vs-nodejs
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[16:07] fille12: bullshit man...
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[16:09] mparodi: 
ACTION would like to have a require_withtout_cache('myModule.js')

[16:09] fille12: ops its so old
[16:09] fille12: dident se that
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[16:11] fille12: see
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[16:17] fille12: is there a less module for node.js?
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[16:27] MooGoo: less?
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[16:32] ack: fille12, yes. npm install less.
[16:32] ack: MooGoo, http://lesscss.org/
[16:32] MooGoo: oh
[16:32] MooGoo: thought you were talking about the unix program
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[16:36] fille12: whats problem with everyone only me thats need docs? here
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[16:40] fille12: time to convert a wordpress blogg to node.js then
[16:40] fille12: or why not go for the drupal
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[16:44] pita: fs.mkdir(path, mode, [callback])
[16:44] pita: anyone know what mode means?
[16:45] mparodi: does anyone know if it's possible to know if the current process was .spawn()ed?
[16:45] MooGoo: isnt that chmod
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[16:46] pita: MooGoo: means a valid value would be: "644" ?
[16:46] pita: lets try
[16:47] MooGoo: perhaps
[16:47] MooGoo: cant think of anything else
[16:47] mparodi: 4 is not a valid value
[16:47] mparodi: is it?
[16:47] mparodi: try 755
[16:47] pita: mparodi++
[16:47] v8bot:  pita has given a beer to mparodi. mparodi now has 1 beers.
[16:47] pita: MooGoo++
[16:48] v8bot:  pita has given a beer to MooGoo. MooGoo now has 3 beers.
[16:48] mparodi: I don't drink lol
[16:48] MooGoo: give me ur beer
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[16:49] mparodi: never mind, of course 4 is valid, 2^2 :P
[16:49] mparodi: 
ACTION gives MooGoo a glass of water

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[16:55] fille12: jade is really cool
[16:55] fille12: :D
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[16:56] pita: "755" works, but you have to write as a string, not as a number
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[16:57] chjj: node.js broke 7k watchers on github
[16:57] chjj: might pass up jquery finally
[16:57] mparodi: so you don't know if it's possible to realize if the current process was .spawn()ed?
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[17:01] mscdex: mparodi: no fool-proof method that i know of
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[17:03] mparodi: it would be useful. you would be able to run an application, spawn() a child using the same code and addListener() on exit in case the child crashes to spawn it again
[17:03] mparodi: there're other ways, of course
[17:04] tmpvar: stagas, yo
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[17:04] stagas: tmpvar: hey
[17:04] tmpvar: looking at maga now
[17:05] stagas: tmpvar: cool!
[17:05] frewsxcv: which is the best module for couchdb with node?
[17:05] adnam: frewsxcv: kiokujs is awesoome
[17:06] tmpvar: stagas, you could probably benefit from client side interpolation (re: circles.html)
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[17:07] stagas: tmpvar: yeah a lot of stuff are unfinished / broken, was hoping you have some ideas :)
[17:07] frewsxcv2: adnam: which one is hat?
[17:07] frewsxcv2: *that
[17:08] tmpvar: stagas, so motion is an attempt to move away from providing a scene graph (because everyone does that differently)
[17:09] adnam: frewsxcv2: kiokujs-backend-couchdb in npm
[17:09] tmpvar: stagas, which means I can't provide the methods to apply/revert patches to the scene -- which makes interpolation "up to the user"
[17:10] adnam: frewsxcv2: also see http://joose.it/blog/2011/01/13/introducing-kiokujs/
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[17:10] itissid: I am making a toy twitter app and in my express code I am looking if the user is Oauthed and  if not I am going to a different router to initiate an Oauth. I cant use next but how do I do it. req.redirect(...) seems to be having a problem where in it executes the body of code below the res.redirect(...) statement
[17:10] tmpvar: stagas, since you have baked in game objects you should be able to do this pretty easily.  You just need to stay away from immediately merging the values from the server into your scene (do it over time, etc)
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[17:11] adnam: itissid: return; afterwards
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[17:12] pita: is there a way to find out if a path is a file or a folder?
[17:12] itissid: adnam, Yeah even with that it seems not to go into the Oauth flow. Where as if I call my Oauth route from my browser localhost/do_oauth it works..
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[17:12] adnam: pita: fs.lstat(path).isDirectory()
[17:13] pita: adnam++
[17:13] v8bot:  pita has given a beer to adnam. adnam now has 1 beers.
[17:13] adnam: lstatSync*
[17:13] itissid: adnam, The do_oauth is called by the redirect but the controller does not do what it is suposed to..
[17:13] itissid: And there are no errors
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[17:14] adnam: itissid: what do you mean by that?
[17:15] stagas: tmpvar: right now I'm merging and advancing until it reaches this user's frame number
[17:16] itissid: adnam, So in my do_oath there is the first leg of my oauth which again redirects me to the twitter login page. Even though I can initiate this flow from my browser by doing a localhost/do_oath. From inside express when I do a res.redirect('/do_oauth') It calls the do_oath but it does not go onto twitter..
[17:17] `3rdEden: Pff debugging different benchmarks is a pain in the arse
[17:17] stagas: tmpvar: and syncing only on every input change
[17:18] adnam: itissid: so the redirect succeeds, and the correct handler gets the request?
[17:18] tmpvar: stagas, i see
[17:18] itissid: adnam, yeah... One sec there might be a problem. Its not possible to redirect after an AJAX call right?
[17:18] itissid: That may be the issue here..
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[17:19] adnam: well, not on the server side
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[17:20] itissid: adnam, so I made an ajax call to my express controller there is no way my browser can know of a redirect that may happen that controller evne though it gets called on the srver..
[17:21] adnam: you can trigger a redirect from the client instead
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[17:22] stagas: tmpvar: it's decent for ease-in motions, but linear motions are flickering they are rapid
[17:22] stagas: if they
[17:22] itissid: adnam, I guess... tahnks a lot... bouncing off ideas helped..
[17:22] tmpvar: stagas, yeah, im noticing that. groking your codez
[17:23] mscdex: itissid: xhr requests should follow redirects automatically
[17:23] mscdex: although some browsers may have the option of disabling that feature
[17:23] tmpvar: sagas, what is this.game.syncTime ?
[17:24] stagas: tmpvar: interval at which .watch() and 'sync' events are fired
[17:24] tmpvar: sagas, im guessing its a push to the server?
[17:25] tmpvar: ah, you probably want to watch more frequently than the sync interval ;)
[17:25] tmpvar: and send groups of patches
[17:25] tmpvar: that way it doesnt look like stuff is jumping, because you have more samples
[17:25] stagas: tmpvar: you decide what to do, it callbacks a stringified state
[17:27] stagas: tmpvar: I could implement it, or have the user do it? what do you think? I'm not doing any transports with maga
[17:29] tmpvar: stagas, interesting
[17:29] tmpvar: stagas, you are stringify is the entire game?
[17:29] chapel: engrish ftw
[17:29] stagas: tmpvar: yeah everything is strings, you can run the same simulation server side, browser side, anyone who has access to the pub sub
[17:30] chapel: hmm, why not to blending on the client
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[17:30] chapel: idk
[17:30] chapel: 
ACTION shuts up

[17:30] chapel: and goes to bed
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[17:30] tmpvar: stagas, i just think you need to sample at a faster rate on the client, but emit to the server at your current interval
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[17:31] tmpvar: keeps you're watcher from missing critical direction changes and what not
[17:31] itissid: mscdex, Well for some reason they are not
[17:32] mscdex: itissid: which browsers?
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[17:36] stagas: tmpvar: I'll try that
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[17:39] tmpvar: stagas, I think the ideal solution is to collect all the user input into a queue while applying it locally.  On client tick, send that queue to the server to be validated/applied against the master scene
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[17:42] beriberikix: Is  there a lib for localStorage on the server?
[17:42] tbranyen: beriberikix: yeah its called fs
[17:42] MooGoo: damn u tbranyen 
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[17:42] tbranyen: beriberikix: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.8/api/fs.html
[17:43] tbranyen: MooGoo: :D
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[17:47] mparodi: $ node sameScript.js # spawn('node', ['sameScript.js'], { env: {child: true}, customFds: [0, 0, 0] }); if (process.env.child) { console.log('I am a child process :3 !'); }
[17:47] mparodi: isn't it great? mscdex
[17:48] mscdex: mparodi: sure, that works in that case, but not in general
[17:48] mparodi: why not?
[17:49] mscdex: mparodi: if a child process is spawned without that environment variable, then you have no way of knowing
[17:49] mparodi: of course, I wanted a way to know, and there it is
[17:50] beriberikix: tbranyen: of course you could build one on top of fs, but isn't 1:1
[17:50] mscdex: heh i know :)
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[17:50] beriberikix: I know brianleroux is working on porting over lawnchair
[17:50] tbranyen: if you just want persistent key/val why not use redis
[17:50] mscdex: if you fork() then you can easily know whether you're the parent or child
[17:50] tbranyen: localStorage in itself doesn't make sense on the server
[17:50] caolanm has joined the channel
[17:51] mscdex: but that means you have to use the same script
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[17:51] mparodi: by the way, is there any difference between var something = require('./s'); and use something many times rather than to do require('./s') many times?
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[17:51] tbranyen: mparodi: one is more readable
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[17:52] mparodi: ok but what about the performance? maybe require() does the same internally, does it?
[17:52] tbranyen: require() every single time is a function call to a cache
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[17:52] tbranyen: the other is a direct reference to the module
[17:52] itissid: tmpvar, Sorry got cut there... 
[17:52] itissid: Did I miss somethin?
[17:52] fakewaffle: How do I get the full URL from express? I don't know why I'm having trouble with this... :/
[17:52] mparodi: ok, so it's the same, thank you!
[17:52] tmpvar: stagas, I think the ideal solution is to collect all the user input into a queue while applying it locally.  On client tick, send that queue to the server to be validated/applied against the master scene
[17:52] tbranyen: mparodi: how is it the same... i just told you it isn't the same
[17:52] mparodi: <tbranyen> the other is a direct reference to the module
[17:53] tbranyen: they are different not only in readability, but also in that require is a function call to a cache every single time while the assignment is a direct reference
[17:53] mparodi: then it's like to have a var called something and use it many times
[17:53] tbranyen: that doesn't sound the same to me
[17:53] mparodi: oh, I misread it, I'm sorry
[17:53] tbranyen: i'd do what everyone does and assign it and use the reference
[17:53] tbranyen: its more readable
[17:54] tbranyen: and "performant"
[17:54] mparodi: I thought "the other" was "the second time you use require to get the same module" :P
[17:54] mparodi: thanks
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[18:06] fakewaffle: whats the best way to host multiple node apps? apache proxy?
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[18:06] `3rdEden: oh
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[18:08] `3rdEden: fakewaffle apache defeats whole purpose of running node... you are just gonna pace it behind a threaded peice of shit
[18:09] fakewaffle: ok, so what do you suggest?
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[18:11] mscdex: fakewaffle: node!
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[18:12] fakewaffle: mscdex: so glad i asked thanks...
[18:12] mscdex: :-D
[18:12] fakewaffle: awesome suggesting
[18:12] fakewaffle: so i type node in console and it will just work?
[18:12] mscdex: seriously, it wouldn't be that difficult....
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[18:13] fakewaffle: in nginx blocking?
[18:13] CiRlE has joined the channel
[18:13] fakewaffle: i have to have apache for some php shit on my server
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[18:13] mscdex: then proxy to apache from node
[18:13] alindeman has joined the channel
[18:13] fakewaffle: ok
[18:14] fille12: i got it att
[18:14] fille12: proxypassreverse
[18:14] fakewaffle: brb
[18:14] mscdex: apache proxying to node = evil
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[18:15] fille12: not recomended?
[18:15] mscdex: correct ;)
[18:15] mscdex: well, if you care about concurrency anyway :)
[18:15] fille12: :D
[18:15] fille12: not yet
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[18:17] AvianFlu: jdub: you around?  I just submitted a fairly simple pull request to node-twitter
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[18:18] coleGillespie: link to node twitter
[18:19] AvianFlu: https://github.com/jdub/node-twitter/pull/16
[18:20] fille12: got any ide without using the apache proxypassreverse
[18:21] jslatts: anyone know of any easy, node-friendly way to watch a directory tree for changes?
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[18:22] AvianFlu: jslatts: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.8/api/fs.html
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[18:22] AvianFlu: there's a watchfile in there somewhere
[18:22] AvianFlu: and also various directory things
[18:22] jslatts: AvianFlu: there is for a file, but unless i am being thick (quite possible) i can't watch a whole dir
[18:23] jslatts: this guy does it: https://github.com/iliakan/node-dev/blob/master/manager.js
[18:23] jslatts: but he uses inotify
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[18:26] baudehlo: jslatts: fs.watchFile appears to work on directories.
[18:26] baudehlo: I just did "fs.watchFile('.')" and it called the callback when the dir changed.
[18:26] fille12: so is there away to skip to apache proxypassreverse
[18:26] jslatts: baudehlo: seems so
[18:27] jslatts: baudehlo: thanks, i'll give that a shot
[18:27] baudehlo: only annoying thing is it being a poll.
[18:27] baudehlo: but whatcha gonna do.
[18:27] jslatts: baudehlo: yes... wrap kqueue? :)
[18:27] baudehlo: yeah kqueue works nicely.
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[18:27] baudehlo: well I mean libev already wraps kqueue.
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[18:28] jslatts: baudehlo: thats what i had assumed, but I can't find any docs about watching a dir
[18:28] jslatts: ev_stat seems file oriented
[18:29] baudehlo: that's what I mean, is that libev doesn't wrap the ability to watch files because it's not emulatable with poll()/select()
[18:29] baudehlo: so it just takes the naive approach of a 1 second poll.
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[18:30] jslatts: baudehlo: but if I use the native node.js version, theoretically i'll be compliant when they finally sort that out
[18:30] jslatts: baudehlo: and I can write less c++ :)
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[18:33] fille12: so is there away to skip the apache proxypassreverse
[18:34] mscdex: fille12: what do you mean? while still using apache in front ?
[18:34] pita: https://github.com/Pita/doc.md
[18:34] pita: A simple JSDoc documenation tool that creates markdown for node.js modules
[18:34] fille12: im using my apache on port 80
[18:34] fille12: i got a domain
[18:34] fille12: that i whant to use a domain for my node.js server
[18:35] fille12: right now
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[18:35] fille12: http://www.mynodejs.com/
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[18:35] mscdex: fille12: if you put node in front (listening on port 80) then you can proxy any necessary requests to apache
[18:35] fille12: aaa thats cool
[18:35] mscdex: or handle them directly in node with express if you don't require php
[18:36] fille12: i know apache is a beaste
[18:37] fille12: so u mean i will change the port on my apache
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[18:41] mscdex: fille12: yes
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[18:43] fille12: just wondering is anyone here developing for yammer?
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[18:45] jslatts: I would actually love a chance to ask a yammer dev a question
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[18:45] level09: is there any best practices or arrangements regarding security when using node.js ?
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[18:45] level09: I'm basically using socket.io to push some breaking news
[18:45] fille12: wondering my company is using yammer. 
[18:46] level09: is there any specific things must be done to secure the http server ?
[18:46] AvianFlu: level09: never trust input from a public place, ever, on any platform
[18:46] AvianFlu: sanitize it all and that will be a good start
[18:46] AvianFlu: you know, escape funny characters and stuff
[18:46] level09: AvianFlu: okay that is done, since I'm not accepting input
[18:46] level09: all is coming from the server to the client
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[18:47] AvianFlu: so where's the server getting the data
[18:47] level09: AvianFlu: it is watching a file
[18:47] AvianFlu: and how is the client sure the server isn't fake
[18:47] AvianFlu: those are your next two security questions
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[18:47] Corren: 0/
[18:47] level09: the file gets pushed from tv to the server
[18:47] AvianFlu: as long as nobody bad can change the file, that part is cool
[18:47] level09: sure
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[18:47] level09: that is guranteed as well
[18:47] level09: but what about for example
[18:47] level09: flooding the server 
[18:48] level09: or these kind of attacks
[18:48] level09: is that possible ?
[18:48] level09: I'm loading my script from a url like http://ip:port , should I hide the ip as well ?
[18:48] Corren: node isn't hardened like nginx or lighttpd
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[18:49] level09: what do u mean ?
[18:49] level09: i'm only using it to push some breaking news 
[18:49] level09: not to serve any other files
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[18:49] Corren: but it's exposed on the public web?
[18:50] level09: yes
[18:50] level09: is there a way to hide it ?
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[18:50] Corren: sure
[18:50] level09: how ?
[18:50] Corren: iptables the port node listens on from the outside world?
[18:51] Corren: and only proxy to it via a more hardened web server
[18:51] Corren: for example, nginx on port 80 proxying to node on port 3000, where node is not accessible from the public ip directly
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[18:51] level09: aha
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[18:52] level09: that makes sense
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[18:52] level09: but what could be the problem if node server is exposed ?
[18:53] fille12: im throwing out my apache server  right away
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[18:53] level09: yeah apache should be discontinued 
[18:53] level09: :D
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[18:58] Corren: possibly no problems
[18:58] mscdex: just beware nginx has its own issues
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[18:58] mscdex: when proxying to node
[18:58] Corren: I'm not saying node is bad
[18:58] Corren: mscdex: enumerate?
[18:59] mscdex: Corren: http 1.1 issues and draft76 websockets don't forward
[18:59] Corren: ah yes http 1.1 indeed
[18:59] Corren: I'm not doing anything fancy with 1.1 in my app
[18:59] Corren: unaware of draft76 issues
[18:59] Corren: do you have a linky
[18:59] mscdex: there may be others too, but those are the ones i'm aware of
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[19:01] mscdex: Corren: i don't have a link offhand, but it may have to do with draft76's handshake being weird, especially it supplying a body with the upgrade request
[19:02] mscdex: all http proxies have the same issue with that
[19:02] mscdex: thankfully later versions of the protocol do away with that nonsense
[19:02] mscdex: but most browsers still implement draft76
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[19:06] Corren: I'm not doing websockets either so no biggie for me ;)
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[19:07] motu: is there any module for file event notifying using fanotify? 
[19:07] motu: fanotify is the new replacement for inotify
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[19:08] italic: mscdex: hey, i'm having trouble catching a NCursesException, even on process.on - any ideas?
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[19:10] johnnywengluu: anyone using s3 here?
[19:10] akshatj: johnnywengluu, I am
[19:10] fille12: what is s3?
[19:11] johnnywengluu: akshatj: s3 cant host node.js app right?
[19:11] ashb: s3 = simple storage service
[19:11] akshatj: johnnywengluu, no wait, I don't have access currently
[19:11] ashb: so it can't host any app in any langauge
[19:11] ashb: other than as a file you download
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[19:12] level09: can i proxy to node if I'm using apache ? 
[19:12] level09: I'm not running nginx yet 
[19:13] mscdex: italic: what's the exception?
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[19:13] coleGillespie: go to rackspace, set up a linux box, wget node, ./configure, make, make install
[19:13] coleGillespie: no apache
[19:13] coleGillespie: no nginx
[19:13] coleGillespie: strait nodeJs is all your need
[19:13] mscdex: no lols
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[19:13] italic: mscdex: NCursesException, it's given when i draw a window out of bounds
[19:14] coleGillespie: you*
[19:14] mscdex: italic: and try/catch doesn't work?
[19:14] otaku_coder: hi, does anyone know if it's possible to use express-messages with jade templates? The example in the repo only lists ejs template rendering
[19:14] italic: mscdex: doesn't seem to
[19:15] italic: mscdex: is that a c++ error?
[19:15] Matias: what is the default context of any event handler? I think it's not the context of the function that added the handler and I don't know how to change it. I believe it's not documented
[19:17] hever: I'm going to download data from a website, but the data are in an iframe and in there a js renders some data. Because simple get requests can't handle this, I'm asking myself if I could use for example firefox out of node.js to render the html and download it...
[19:17] itissid: mscdex, So it turns out i have to handle the redirect. 
[19:17] itissid: Even though the header says I dont.
[19:18] itissid: I guess its intended
[19:18] coleGillespie: Matias: i am not sure i follow you, can you further explain?
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[19:19] fille12: anyone got a goot node.js proxy example?
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[19:21] coleGillespie: fille12: http://www.catonmat.net/http-proxy-in-nodejs
[19:21] fille12: thanks 
[19:21] fille12: was looking at exact same site
[19:22] coleGillespie: ^_^
[19:22] Matias: coleGillespie, the question is what is the value of "this" in a event handler, I didn't found neither how to change it nor what it has by default
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[19:25] Matias: an*
[19:25] Matias: does it make sense now?
[19:25] otaku_coder: i've tried using #{messages} in a jade template but i just get the raw js echoed out
[19:25] otaku_coder: ...when using express-messages
[19:27] coleGillespie: Matias: yes, it makes sense...have you tried logging it out when you hit the server?
[19:27] rubydiam_ has joined the channel
[19:28] Matias: yes, I did but it's so big I don't know what it has
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[19:32] coleGillespie: Matias: with nodeJs still being in dev all of us other developers are kind of on our own when it comes to detailed questions right now. you are just going to have to drill down into that object and try to piece it all together
[19:34] coleGillespie: then document your findings and try to get it published so others who have the same question later will be able to reference your findings
[19:34] tim_smart: Any mongoose experts around?
[19:36] Matias: I just changed the code and I realized that "this" isn't the same outside the handler than inside it, I guess there should be a way to specify what to use
[19:37] coleGillespie: is there a particular event handler you are working with currently?
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[19:40] jslatts: does node-inspector no longer do --start-brk=file.js?
[19:41] Matias: yes, http.request, coleGillespie
[19:41] Matias: I mean, it's not exactly an event but it defines a handler anyway
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[19:42] coleGillespie: ok, and you are logging the request i am guessing
[19:43] Matias: yes
[19:43] jslatts: nm, apparently node does that for your now with node --debug-brk --debug file.js
[19:44] Matias: it does have a "this" but it's not the same context that has the function that is doing the request
[19:44] johnnywengluu: anyone here using jake?
[19:44] Matias: (it's not absolutely necessary but it would be helpful to have a way to set it)
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[19:48] pita: A simple JSDoc documenation tool that creates markdown for node.js modules https://github.com/Pita/doc.md
[19:50] itissid: So in express If i am to keep an in memory data across sessions, just for testing, how to do it? Just declare a global variable?
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[19:52] hermanjunge: hi, are there any mac user?
[19:53] hermanjunge: I'm looking for the shell console
[19:53] hermanjunge: XD (Win user for years)
[19:54] pixel13: terminal?
[19:54] Matias: lol
[19:54] Matias: you have to put a Linux CD and reboot, it's the way lol
[19:55] pixel13: http://www.iterm2.com/ <--
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[19:55] fson: hermanjunge: you can find Terminal.app under Applications/Utilities :)
[19:55] fmeyer has joined the channel
[19:55] hermanjunge: Right!
[19:56] wbw72 has joined the channel
[19:56] fson: or for the fun of it, press Cmd-Space and type 'terminal' :)
[19:56] hermanjunge: sorry to bother, but, would you recommend me some text editor? with syntax highlighting?
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[19:56] hermanjunge: cmd-space. ... THNX!
[19:57] hermanjunge: I am NEWBIE in Mac, so, any thing you throw, I'll take
[19:57] level09: should node.js script be always run by root ?
[19:57] fson: many people use textmate, i like macvim
[19:57] hermanjunge: level09: for security, methinks is better to run nodejs as a user
[19:58] hermanjunge: so, if someone hacks your app, only the app files would be compromised, not the OS or anything
[19:58] level09: hermanjunge: I'm still looking for some guides on securing node.js apps
[19:58] level09: I will deploy a small http server to serve breaking news 
[19:58] level09: and I hope it won't be that dangerous
[19:58] hermanjunge: in howtonode, they teach you somewhere how to install node being an user
[19:59] hermanjunge: level09: that'll be my two cents
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[19:59] level09: thanks !
[20:00] hermanjunge: level09: about security is not a lot yet, the security wizards haven't take an interest on doing testing on nodejs
[20:00] hermanjunge: level09: but that will be change in the following months, once some important player decides to deploy some nodejs app
[20:01] level09: hermanjunge: I hope so
[20:01] level09: so no high profile companies are using this technology yet :D ?
[20:01] hermanjunge: level09: here http://howtonode.org/introduction-to-npm I've found a good guide
[20:02] hermanjunge: level09: they advice you never install nodejs under root to aovid risks in your OS
[20:02] level09: okay thanks
[20:02] hermanjunge: level09: There some dark rumours that Y! will replace PHP with nodejs, but couldn't find the source, so I cannot confirm
[20:03] level09: what is gmail using currently as a push technology ?
[20:03] level09: I know facebook are still relying on long polling
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[20:04] DelvarWorld1: hermanjunge: that is an old article
[20:04] DelvarWorld1: I thought npm suggests root for installs now
[20:04] mscdex: italic: not sure, i'll take a look at it
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[20:05] hermanjunge: DelvarWorldI: The article is old, but the advice persists
[20:05] hermanjunge: level09: Don't know
[20:06] DelvarWorld1: As of version 0.3, it is recommended to run npm as root. This allows npm to change the user identifier to the nobody user prior to running any package build or test commands.
[20:06] DelvarWorld1: hermanjunge: https://github.com/isaacs/npm#readme
[20:06] DelvarWorld1: stop lying to people ;)
[20:06] level09: I think my risk is very minimal, just a small http server to push some data 
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[20:07] Matias: I installed npm today, I didn't read anything about root in its official page but in fact I couldn't install it as a normal user (it has to write in /usr) and actually I had to create a dir in /usr/lib/node_modules, it was returning an error trying to do so :|
[20:07] Matias: on its *
[20:08] DelvarWorld1: on the install page on that link above it says "sudo make install"
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[20:08] Matias: I used # curl http://npmjs.org/install.sh | sh 
[20:08] hermanjunge: DelvarWorldI: You caught me lying!!! :D
[20:09] Matias: (taken from http://npmjs.org/)
[20:10] dhasenan: level09: yahoo has posted jobs at nodejs.org.
[20:10] DelvarWorld1: link to the readme says if that fails, try cloning github repo and sudo installing. although, I didn't need to be root to install npm (mac osx), the sh script worked for me
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[20:10] level09: cool
[20:10] hermanjunge: las month I installed nodejs on an ubuntu machine as user. Since I have to install it again in this mac, I will try and blog about it, in order not to blush again!
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[20:10] level09: it would be nicer if google adopts this technology
[20:10] level09: since it is based on their v8
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[20:12] mr-black: Would someone be willing to answer a possibly silly question?
[20:12] mscdex: mr-black: just ask
[20:13] mscdex: no need to ask to ask ;)
[20:13] mr-black: haha fair enough
[20:13] MichealBenedict: ?
[20:13] hermanjunge: mr-black: DO IT
[20:13] hermanjunge: lol
[20:14] mscdex: the answer is probably 42
[20:14] mr-black: So, could someone give me an example of why you would want to assign the module.exports object to an object you made as opposed to just using the default object?
[20:15] pita: is there a way to do a console.log without a line break?
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[20:15] level09: it doesn't line break normally 
[20:15] level09: for me
[20:15] mr-black: the "default" object being the one created by the module system
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[20:17] mscdex: mr-black: you mean exports?
[20:17] hermanjunge: mr-black: AFAIK (Beginner), you need to export in order to use some object / function in other file
[20:17] mscdex: mr-black: it's useful if you're exporting one thing, usually a "class"
[20:17] MichealBenedict: do you mean .. module.exports.abcModule = func(), can be accessed as "abcModule" everywhere else ?
[20:17] mscdex: mr-black: so you can do: var Foo = require('./foo'); instead of var Foo = require('./foo').Foo;
[20:18] hermanjunge: mr-black: I reckon is the equivalent to say 'public' in Java or C#
[20:18] hermanjunge: mcsdex is right, it helps to write shorter lines, among other things
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[20:19] mr-black: hmm
[20:19] mscdex: it helps to remove redundancy in naming
[20:20] mscdex: imho
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[20:20] mr-black: is there some other reason for assigning module.exports to a class that you make versus just adding functions / attributes to the exports object?
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[20:20] mscdex: no
[20:20] mscdex: not really
[20:20] mr-black: I think what I'm confused about is that, to me, the end result seems the same
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[20:21] mscdex: mr-black: it's easier to work with a single variable when you're replacing module.exports instead of using "module.exports" everywhere when you want to refer to the thing you're exporting
[20:22] mscdex: mr-black: e.g. /* module */ var Foo = module.exports = function() {}; Foo.prototype.bar = function() {}; /* instead of module.exports.prototype.bar */
[20:22] mscdex: other than those two things there really is no difference
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[20:22] mscdex: because either way it's exporting an object of some kind
[20:23] mscdex: whether it's one you defined or you use the one defined for you by node
[20:23] mr-black: so the "kind" object doesn't matter? It's really just semantics"
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[20:23] mr-black: /s/"/?/
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[20:25] mscdex: yeah it's just easier to deal with and easier to read (in the module) if you're exporting a single "class" and not using module.exports everywhere in your module code
[20:25] level09: any socket.io users
[20:25] samsonjs: quick express question, anyone know if I can turn of logging for single requests, or a specific path?
[20:25] mr-black: mscdex: cool stuff. I appreciate the help!
[20:26] mscdex: but if you're just exporting a bunch of unrelated functions, then why not just use the provided exports object, e.g.: exports.pow = function(){}; exports.sqrt = function() {};
[20:26] mscdex: well, not unrelated necessarily but not tied to a single instance of something
[20:27] gtramont1na: Hey all, any1 using jade? How do I write meta-tags?
[20:27] gtramont1na: tried doing this, but didn't compile: meta(name='viewport' content='width=device-width; initial-scale=1.0; maximum-scale=1.0; user-scalable=0;')
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[20:28] mr-black: mscdex: Indeed, I think the rule of thumb I'm going to use is if it's a class I want to export I'll assign modules.exports to that but if it's a bunch of unrelated functions I'll just do exports.foo = function() {}
[20:29] mscdex: mr-black: yeah
[20:29] mscdex: a bunch of loose functions or several "classes"
[20:32] hermanjunge: mr-black: Yes, the idea of exports is to give the functions some kind of "namespace"
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[20:35] gtramont1na: nevermind. missing comma. :-/
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[20:38] hermanjunge: gtramontina: it happens
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[20:43] dnyy: anyone know of a telnet library that implements option negotiation?
[20:48] mscdex: dnyy: people still use telnet? ;)
[20:48] dnyy: need it for this MUD client i've been working on :(
[20:50] cardona507 has joined the channel
[20:51] mscdex: dnyy: it should be fairly trivial, this might be useful: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/231866
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[20:53] viz_: i'm a bit confused about server-side routes (express) and client-side routes (backbone.js). are there advantages in doing one over the other? what are their different purposes? as far as i know, you can do all your routes (get/post/etc) with either, right?
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[20:59] level09: is there a sleep() method in node.js ? does it make it synchronous
[21:00] aho: no. n/a.
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[21:00] ashb: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.8/api/timers.html
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[21:01] dnyy: mscdex: yeah, have some docs up already, was just hoping someone had already taken care of it
[21:01] level09: I was wondering because I saw it on phantomjs page
[21:01] dnyy: i'm fine to do it myself if not, though
[21:01] level09: which is a node module
[21:01] level09: or kind of
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[21:02] aho: phantomjs = headless webkit
[21:02] mscdex: dnyy: i'm not aware of any offhand
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[21:02] level09: headless ?
[21:03] level09: is that a good term or a bad one :) ?
[21:03] aho: there is no UI, basically
[21:03] level09: aho: I want a way to grab the thumbnail of a website through the url 
[21:03] level09: so I think it can help
[21:03] aho: phantomjs can do that, yes
[21:04] ashb: http://code.google.com/p/phantomjs/wiki/QuickStart#Rendering
[21:04] aho: anthing you can view with a webkit based browser can be dumped into a png
[21:04] ashb: wkhtmltopdf will do it too
[21:05] level09: great !
[21:05] level09: thanks
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[21:17] jslatts: if I have a nested callback function: someMethod(function (result) { console.log(result); });
[21:18] jslatts: and I moved the callback to its owned named function: someMethod(myCallBack);
[21:18] jslatts: does myCallBack still have access to someMethods object scope?
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[21:20] supster: jslatts: depends on where you define myCallBack. but no, not in the sense that you're getting at
[21:20] supster: jslatts: functions will close on variables that are in scope and used in the function body at the time of the function definition, not at the time of calling
[21:21] supster: jslatts: you need to read more about how closures work in javascript
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[21:21] jslatts: supster: i guess i should have known that.
[21:21] jslatts: supster: i can use a generator function to build the function I need bound to the objects at runtime
[21:22] supster: yep
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[21:22] supster: someMethod(getMyCallBack(var1, var2, ...))
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[21:24] jslatts: supster: do you prefer to continually nest function callbacks in node? or do flatten them out?
[21:24] jslatts: supster: i haven't really had too deep of nesting until i started doing some file handling stuff
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[21:30] supster: depends on what is happening. generally i try to avoid deep nesting but don't go too far out of my way to do it
[21:31] supster: if there's an easy way to avoid it that improves the readability and does not add much complexity, do it
[21:32] supster: libraries like https://github.com/caolan/async help
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[21:48] tim_smart: Hmm express's app.error() isn't working for me.
[21:48] tim_smart: Calling next(error) somewhere in my app, but the handler passed to app.error() isn't being called.
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[22:02] mplabs: I have found it's not that good to use Node.js as a webservice server :|
[22:03] mplabs: it's not his fault but once you try you realize you can't use AJAX to request, so you have to use JSONP so you can't send data using POST
[22:03] mplabs: it's not so flexible
[22:04] Raynos has joined the channel
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[22:04] Raynos: I''ve been reading the connect & express source and have noticed that they have different routers
[22:05] Raynos: Since express re-uses a lot of connects functionality why has the router in express been rewritten?
[22:05] tim_smart: mplabs: What do you mean?
[22:06] mplabs: I mean if you want to use Node.js to implement different webservices you won't be able to send them data using POST
[22:06] zomgbie has joined the channel
[22:06] mplabs: or at least I don't know how (I'm almost sure it's not possible)
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[22:07] tim_smart: mplabs: Of couse you can
[22:07] Raynos: node.js can send POST requests to other servers over HTTP
[22:07] Raynos: I was reading some code that did just that yesterday
[22:07] tim_smart: request.on('data', function (data) { buffer += data })
[22:07] telemachus:  Raynos What differences did you have in mind?
[22:08] Raynos: telemachus: Just wondering why express doesn't use `connect.router`
[22:08] mplabs: how would you create a request? I would say using a JSONP request
[22:08] mplabs: tim_smart, Raynos
[22:08] telemachus: Raynos: I thought it *did*, but it exposes it as express.router
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[22:08] tim_smart: mplabs: HTTP client request?
[22:08] Raynos: telemachus: I think its custom code that reimplements the router but doesnt use connect.router, I can try and double check the source though
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[22:09] tim_smart: Raynos: Because TJ wanted a better DSL I guess
[22:09] mplabs: a request from a JS script running in the browser that wants to get data from your webservice, tim_smart
[22:09] tim_smart: mplabs: jQuery.ajax(...)
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[22:09] mplabs: you will have to use JSONP, so you can't use POST, I'm almost sure
[22:10] Raynos: tim_smart: what do you mean with DSL ? The question is also since TJ wrote both connect  / express its strange to duplicate all that routing code
[22:10] tim_smart: mplabs: I use POST all the time
[22:10] mplabs: you can use $.ajax() just if the webservice is in the same server you are running the JS script in client side
[22:10] Raynos: tim_smart: hes talking about cross browser restrictions
[22:10] mplabs: it's not the case here :P
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[22:10] Raynos: Ehm fail. cross site restrictions
[22:10] Raynos: mplabs: just use a standard jsonp GET request.
[22:11] mplabs: well, that's what I was talking about, you're forced to use GET :P
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[22:11] tim_smart: mplabs: Or socket.io or something
[22:11] Raynos: Or use a proxy
[22:12] telemachus: Raynos: You're right. Express seems to have different routing code. Definitely spread out over more files - not sure how different the implementation is yet...looking now.
[22:12] Raynos: use ajax to request the correct thing from a middle man server (your own server)
[22:12] tim_smart: Raynos: express has different router syntax than connect right?
[22:12] mplabs: to use a proxy sometimes is not possible
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[22:12] supster: cross-domain xhr restrictions have nothing to do with node.js... not sure how "node is not good to use as a webservice server"
[22:12] Raynos: mplabs: no reason why node.js cant forward a proper HTTP POST on your behalf due to your ajax restrictions
[22:12] mplabs: (for example when you want to do a long polling request and your server is Apache, and it's the case)
[22:13] Raynos: mplabs: supster has a point all servers have the xhr restrictions, theres no reason why node.js would be worse then any other
[22:14] drachenstern: aren't xhr restrictions browserside, not serverside, so it doesn't matter if its lighttpd or apache or iis or node or a tin can?
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[22:14] Raynos: tim_smart: Yes you're right it is different. connect requires you to pass a callback for which it returns the methods (get, post). I just expected that express could reuse it somehow
[22:14] supster: drachenstern: yes. browsers do the restricting
[22:14] Raynos: drachenstern: a tin can is not a valid HTTP server
[22:14] drachenstern: it should be
[22:14] mplabs: so what is the suggestion? I can use GET anyway, it's ok
[22:15] supster: mplabs: why isn't your web service on the same domain as the requesting application?
[22:15] drachenstern: apparently I can't change my nick to any of my usual ones?
[22:15] drachenstern: Nickserv is telling me that's not allowed ..
[22:16] mplabs: because my PHP script is running on Apache on port 80 and my webservices server is listening on other port
[22:16] Raynos: telemachus timstart: I might indeed be because the APIs are so different. I can guess that re-writing the express router is more efficient then tunneling through the connect API but I'd have to ask someone more knowledgable for the real reason to not re-use some of connect.router functionality.
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[22:17] mplabs: so I can't create AJAX request, supster
[22:17] mplabs: does it make sense now?
[22:17] Raynos: mplabs: no they are on the same domain but have different ports, of course you can talk to eachother just put node on a subdomain
[22:17] supster: mplabs: yep, i understand. there's different ways of going about this
[22:18] telemachus: Raynos: I'm still not quite seeing how the APIs are so different - http://pastie.org/1990622
[22:18] supster: mplabs: you can use jsonp as you mentioned, or you can use a proxy frontend to make the webservice available on the same domain (and port) as your web application
[22:18] telemachus: Those are all examples from the Connect or Express webpages
[22:18] supster: mplabs: or use allow-origin headers if you are only targetting modern browsers
[22:18] mplabs: I think you can't talk with other subdomain anyway, Raynos
[22:19] mplabs: let me check, I'm not so sure
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[22:20] Raynos: telemachus: I dont know the details but I can imagine there could be good reasons why calling connect.router immediatly when you call express.createServer is a bad thing
[22:20] Raynos: mplabs: sub domain cross communication over ajax should be valid. 
[22:20] level09: what happens if I compile node without ssh support ?
[22:20] telemachus: Raynos: Ok, but what I'm saying is jut that the APIs of those two examples don't look very different at all to me
[22:21] monokrome: Sub-domain cross communication over ajax should be valid?
[22:21] mplabs: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Same_origin_policy_for_JavaScript, Raynos
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[22:21] Raynos: telemachus: the actual APIs for app seem the same to me aswell.
[22:21] monokrome: Ignoring the same origin policy, are yo?
[22:21] mplabs: it's not valid
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[22:22] Raynos: monokrome: I didnt realise it was that restricted :(
[22:22] mplabs: requesting from "http://store.company.com/dir/page.html", it's not valid: "http://news.company.com/dir/other.html"
[22:22] level09: whats the name of this ssl package that is required for node ?
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[22:22] mplabs: then there's just one way: JSON + GET :P
[22:22] mplabs: er, I mean, JSONP
[22:23] supster: mplabs: no there's multiple options: jsonp, proxy frontend, allow-origin headers
[22:23] Raynos: mplabs: or a bridge (using your PHP script as a proxy to talk to node)
[22:23] Raynos: That allow-origins is also valid
[22:23] mplabs: Apache will crash if I ask him to handle a long polling request xD
[22:23] supster: use nginx or something else as your proxy
[22:23] Raynos: telemachus: I think I'll settle for asking TJ himself, when I get the chance.
[22:24] Raynos: mplabs: option 4. Drop your PHP script and redevelop your website in node
[22:24] mplabs: hahaha
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[22:24] Raynos: That's a serious option, node.js can handle anything PHP can. 
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[22:25] Raynos: Well anything custom solution you want to write in PHP you can also write in node.js
[22:25] level09: it can, but who's got the time to rewrite all these php frameworks 
[22:25] monokrome: mplabs: No, proxies also effectively evade the same-origin policy. People just need to be secure about it.
[22:25] supster: Raynos: https://github.com/visionmedia/express/issues/639
[22:26] monokrome: JSONP also evades it.
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[22:26] Raynos: supster: your the man o/
[22:26] mplabs: JSONP works well in this case
[22:26] Raynos: supster++
[22:26] v8bot:  Raynos has given a beer to supster. supster now has 1 beers.
[22:26] mplabs: I don't know if I got what you said though
[22:27] supster: mplabs: just use jsonp, looks like it's solving your problem fine
[22:28] mplabs: yes, at least for now. maybe I will change it all soon, but not now
[22:28] Raynos: level09: True, but if your writing a custom solution to something in PHP then you dont use those big frameworks. Give it a year and we'll have a popular node CMS 
[22:29] level09: I hope so
[22:29] level09: :)
[22:29] mplabs: hey, I read today about a node CMS!
[22:29] level09: Raynos: still I'm not sure why they dont recommend node for specific projects
[22:29] mplabs: I can't remember its name
[22:29] level09: I personally think it can do anything
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[22:30] level09: in some screencasts / articles they say it is mainly for network apps/ realtime etc ..
[22:30] supster: mplabs: http://calip.so/
[22:30] level09: but I saw that company who use it for video transcoding
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[22:30] mplabs: no, another one
[22:30] Raynos: level09: It can if you dont mind the downtime of learning node instead of PHP and the loss of huge frameworks that hold your hand
[22:30] supster: ah
[22:31] Raynos: If your writing anything from scratch or something thats custom use node
[22:31] mplabs: ahmn, ok, maybe this one :P
[22:31] Raynos: The only breaker is good debugging tools and windows support
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[22:31] level09: Raynos: I prefer to use some kind of integration at the moment
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[22:31] Raynos: integration?
[22:31] level09: but really hoping some big players adopt this technology
[22:31] level09: Raynos: yes, like php/ruby frontend, and use node to do some backend stuff
[22:32] level09: well , its technically wrong to say php on frontend 
[22:32] level09: but you know what I mean :D
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[22:32] Raynos: Why do that though?
[22:32] supster: it's not. "frontend" can mean many things
[22:32] level09: Raynos: I'm using node for example to push breaking news
[22:32] level09: by watching files generated from TV
[22:33] Raynos: But your not still using PHP/ruby for new websites are you ;)
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[22:33] level09: and also as a backend scrapper/spider
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[22:34] level09: well, I'm still waiting node to evolve more :)
[22:35] level09: just saw calipso today, wanna dig into it
[22:36] Raynos: I need to get round to writing up my own CMS in node. 
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[22:37] level09: it would be good to get some ideas from existing decent cms's
[22:37] level09: although it is gonna be hard to rewrite syncronous stff into async 
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[22:38] level09: how many concurrent connection can socket io handle on a small ec2 instance
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[22:39] justinw312: I've realized that the web browser is a horrible platform for delivering desktop-like apps. 
[22:39] justinw312: Yet, it's the only platform we have.
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[22:39] justinw312: D:
[22:40] pplante: whys it so horrible?
[22:40] tbranyen: justinw312: not so bad if you use a frame
[22:40] tbranyen: embedded chromium and such
[22:41] supster: level09: many
[22:41] justinw312: Mostly because microsoft has a business interest in making IE act differently from other browsers in subtle ways, and 90% of sheeple use IE.
[22:41] level09: supster: roughly ? how much
[22:41] tbranyen: justinw312: well just like software manufacturers have to deal with cross platform
[22:41] tbranyen: you need to deal with cross browser
[22:41] tbranyen: its no different
[22:41] level09: rough range
[22:41] tbranyen: they all have subtles
[22:41] justinw312: Most recently I've become discouraged with browsers treating the backspace key as a back button
[22:41] tbranyen: subtleties
[22:42] tbranyen: justinw312: why?
[22:42] tbranyen: i hate it when google hijacks shit like that
[22:42] aho: IE doesn't have a 90% market share
[22:42] tbranyen: i want backspace to go back!
[22:42] meatmanek: justinw312: you can probably disable that with event handlers
[22:42] tbranyen: nooooo
[22:42] justinw312: Among sheeple is does.
[22:42] meatmanek: but I get frustrated when people do
[22:42] supster: level09: i have no real answer, but i've tested medium throughput (500 bytes/sec/client) with ~50 clients on a micro instance
[22:42] justinw312: Yeah, I got it disabled and working in safari/chrome/firefox/ie8
[22:43] meatmanek: tbranyen: yeah definitely, I ran into that on google's homepage the other day
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[22:43] meatmanek: was so annoying because I wasn't even focused on the input field
[22:43] level09: supster: what do u use for testing it ? ab ?
[22:43] justinw312: Just irritating that I have to. 
[22:43] supster: level09: it's going to depend on how much data you're transferring and how much actual cpu-bound logic is in your code
[22:43] level09: yeah that's right
[22:43] justinw312: Yeah, someone accidentally changes focus out of the textarea and hits backspace, book -- app gone. 
[22:44] justinw312: *boom
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[22:44] supster: level09: ab doesn't really work for testing because the websocket (or whatever) connection would never be established on the page
[22:45] tbranyen: justinw312: sounds like poor app design to me
[22:45] meatmanek: justinw312: the proper way to handle that is probably with an onunload
[22:45] justinw312: I mean -- does anyone even intentionally use backspace/delete for a back press?
[22:45] supster: level09: unless you mean targettign the ws:// url directly? not sure how that would work
[22:45] meatmanek: justinw312: it's a lot faster than clicking the back buton
[22:45] meatmanek: button*
[22:45] tbranyen: if your app is properly designed, backing out of it does no damage and coming back to it is exactly how you left it
[22:45] level09: supster: I have never actually tested websocket itself, just the node http server 
[22:46] justinw312: Like I said, I fixed the undesirable behavior in a way I believe to work on all the major browsers... but it's irritating that I have to.
[22:46] tbranyen: "fixed"
[22:46] tbranyen: why does your app break when someone hits back?
[22:46] tbranyen: that sounds like its poorly designed, so you add an extra layer of crap breaking native functionality to cover over it
[22:47] tbranyen: thats what it sounds like
[22:47] supster: level09: yeah, i have no good answer to testing :\
[22:47] meatmanek: tbranyen: be nice
[22:47] tbranyen: meatmanek: sorry these poor practices make the web shitty to use
[22:47] level09: I'm a bit afraid of using this on production, but I think I will still go on 
[22:48] justinw312: Sure, with the whole semantic web paradigm, back shouldn't break the app. However, as I said before, I was bemoaning how poor the browser is for desktop-like apps. 
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[22:48] tbranyen: justinw312: you just need to think differently
[22:48] tbranyen: its not meant to model desktop app design
[22:48] justinw312: Desktop apps don't fit into the semantic web paradigm, and neither does my app. People who choose to use my app are choosing somehting that doesn't act like a website. 
[22:48] supster: level09: yeah. i've just monitored it closely during stress testing periods
[22:48] justinw312: There is no cross platform way to do desktop apps. :(
[22:48] meatmanek: sure there is: Java
[22:49] justinw312: ...java.
[22:49] meatmanek: but everyone will hate you if your java app becomes popular
[22:49] meatmanek: also Qt is pretty cross-platform iirc
[22:49] justinw312: The dream that was Java. It failed. 
[22:50] level09: supster:  I believe using just a simple http server to serve some push notification won't be that risky
[22:51] guybrush: woot? http://twitter.com/#!/izs/statuses/74887934737793024 any comments on that?
[22:51] justinw312: I guess what I'm really complaining about is there's no good cross platform way to deliver desktop-like applications. There's Java, but I think Java penetration is dropping every year. There's Air and Silverlight, but those are proprietary. Grrr. 
[22:51] justinw312: Node rocks, though.
[22:51] systemfault: Java failed on the desktop :/
[22:52] justinw312: tbranyen: Maybe you're right. 
[22:52] jonaslund: cross-platform desktop stuff is ok with any platform you choose really
[22:52] supster: level09: the real risk comes in adding the complexity to your architecture, imo
[22:52] jonaslund: C#, Java,etc.. as long as you supply the runtime
[22:52] mscdex: 
ACTION shakes a fist at Java and .NET

[22:53] justinw312: Users are (rightfully) pretty paranoid about native code. 
[22:53] level09: supster: do I need to run nodejs server on a standalone machine ? i have 5 web servers , will use one of them to handle nodejs
[22:54] mscdex: you don't need a standalone machine for node
[22:54] supster: level09: are those 5 web severs mostly idle?
[22:54] supster: level09: or are they pegged all the time?
[22:54] level09: well, sometimes we get some traffic
[22:55] level09: so they are not always idle
[22:55] level09: but again, my node.js server will only read a file an broadcast it through socket
[22:55] level09: maybe a few times a day
[22:55] level09: so it is very minimal operation
[22:55] supster: you can probably just throw it on one of them, yeah
[22:56] supster: are the 5 web servers app servers under load balancing?
[22:56] supster: or do they serve different purposes?
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[22:56] level09: yes , they are using a load balancer
[22:57] level09: and NFS for the website files
[22:57] supster: you can also load balance your node app accross all the app servers
[22:57] justinw312: I guess I could make the app work with the back button, but it would be a large increase in code complexity to handle what is most likely a user error.
[22:58] supster: if the benefits would be desirable
[22:58] supster: (e.g., you can't afford the node service to fail if the single machine hosting it fails)
[22:59] supster: but it sounds like what you are using it isn't critical or used heavily? probably not necessary
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[23:00] level09: yeah
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[23:00] level09: not so heavily but hope to use it heavily soon 
[23:00] level09: 
ACTION cant get phantomjs to work :S

[23:01] mscdex: you could use haproxy in front as long as you don't care about websockets
[23:01] mscdex: are you sure phantomjs is really there?
[23:01] mscdex: :p
[23:02] supster: mscdex: he cares about websockets (using socket.io)
[23:03] mscdex: ah
[23:03] mscdex: well then you pretty much have to have node in front then for now
[23:04] mscdex: until websocket is finalized and browsers adopt a newer version :/
[23:04] supster: there's proxies that support ws
[23:04] level09: I'm using socket.io, which I suppose has some fallback mechanism 
[23:04] level09: it says it is a cross browser solution
[23:04] mscdex: supster: not in http mode
[23:04] level09: hope that is not a scam :D
[23:05] supster: mscdex: right, but you can just use a simple tcp proxy?
[23:05] supster: level09: no, it works!
[23:05] level09: great
[23:05] mscdex: supster: you can, but if you're hosting multiple sites or proxying requests, you need to determine where to send the websocket connection
[23:06] mscdex: and normal proxies/load balancers can't do that
[23:07] supster: right, yeah
[23:08] supster: still allows for the simple case of load balancing a single app
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[23:29] rauchg: level09: what's your question about socket.io ?
[23:29] level09: oh I actually asked a few ones :)
[23:29] level09: I asked about the security, and performance
[23:30] level09: and also 
[23:30] level09: if it is possible to call different functions on the client, instead of relying on just the send mehtod
[23:30] level09: *method
[23:31] rauchg: level09
[23:31] rauchg: check this out
[23:31] rauchg: https://github.com/LearnBoost/Socket.IO-node/tree/develop
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[23:31] rauchg: read the "recipes"
[23:31] rauchg: this is the upcoming version
[23:31] rauchg: f
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[23:31] rauchg: for which i'm finalizing the client
[23:31] level09: by the way, how about the fallback thing
[23:31] rauchg: the protocol has been extended
[23:31] rauchg: and also made more lightweight
[23:31] level09: is it automatic ?
[23:32] level09: or should I do something extra
[23:32] rauchg: fallback is automatic
[23:32] level09: for example, it says it falls back to flash socket 
[23:32] level09: where is that swf file located?
[23:32] level09: oh in that case that is a genius implementation 
[23:34] level09: I noticed it  performs better on chrome , there is a noticable delay compared to FF 
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[23:39] mscdex: level09: what version of firefox?
[23:39] level09: 3.6
[23:39] level09: and even 4
[23:40] level09: i suspect that it falls back to long polling on FF
[23:40] level09: while using websockets on chrome
[23:40] level09: but not sure
[23:40] supster: level09: it should be using flash in ff
[23:40] level09: yeah or probablly long polling
[23:40] level09: according to firebug
[23:40] supster: level09: it's possible the flash file is not being served correctly - check the resources in the browser
[23:40] level09: there is a XHR request every few seconds
[23:41] supster: level09: then the flash fallback is failing for some reason
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[23:41] level09: supster: I think it is fine, it works normally, just the chrome is a little bit faster
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[23:42] supster: level09: yep, it is "working", but it could be using a better transport that will give better performance (like chrome does)
[23:42] supster: if the flash transport fails for some reason (like it is for you) it will use xhr streaming or other polling methods (worse than flash)
[23:42] level09: the problem, websoeckts are not as easy to debug
[23:42] level09: as ajax 
[23:42] level09: I cant see the sent/received messages
[23:42] level09: and data
[23:43] aho: well, there is always the option to use a sniffer
[23:43] aho: (ew)
[23:43] level09: lol
[23:43] level09: :D
[23:43] level09: never used that since college
[23:43] aho: wireshark is pretty good
[23:44] rauchg: level09
[23:44] rauchg: there's extensions
[23:44] rauchg: to see websocket messages
[23:45] rauchg: also, the new socket.io has `debug` mode
[23:45] level09: on the server side ?
[23:45] level09: aha that's good 
[23:45] level09: I'll look for that
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[23:49] Stephen: hola
[23:50] mscdex: hola
[23:50] mscdex: salutations
[23:50] mscdex: greetings
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[23:51] supster: rauchg: is the 0.7 client code available anywhere? or is it not possible to use the develop branch for development?
[23:51] rauchg: supster
[23:51] rauchg: im finishing it right now
[23:51] mscdex: live blog it!
[23:51] rauchg: doing some optimizations
[23:51] rauchg: i decided to make the browser client run on node finally
[23:52] rauchg: for testing
[23:52] supster: awesome! i guess i meant even in a development stage and not as a finished product
[23:52] rauchg: well the server is complete yeah, but useless without a client :P
[23:52] itissid: hey while using express i rendered my plain HTML index page using a simple res.render('index.html'); now when I am doing the same in another router it says  Cannot find module 'html'
[23:52] supster: right :) but it sounds like the wait is not long... thanks!
[23:52] rauchg: itissid
[23:52] itissid: http://204.232.211.180:3000/
[23:52] rauchg: you don't want to "render" html
[23:52] rauchg: you want to .sendfile or similar
[23:52] rauchg: render implies a template engine
[23:53] itissid: rauchg, But why is it working in the first case
[23:53] itissid: Am i Lucky? i hardly think so..
[23:53] rauchg: itissid
[23:53] Stephen: Erg
[23:53] zzak: whut
[23:53] zzak: v8: ({"name":"a","content":["google"],"attributes":{"href":"google.com"}} == {"name":"a","content":["google"],"attributes":{"href":"google.com"}})
[23:53] v8bot: zzak: false
[23:53] Stephen: Why must Cloud9 be such a pain on Amazon instances
[23:53] rauchg: show me your code
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[23:54] itissid: rauchg, https://gist.github.com/998254
[23:54] itissid: Line 52 I render index.html
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[23:55] itissid: Line 208 i try it again
[23:55] itissid: This time it kills my app
[23:55] rauchg: itissid
[23:55] rauchg: why do you pass a title
[23:55] rauchg: to an html static file ?
[23:55] itissid: That is just an artifact
[23:55] itissid: I will remove it
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[23:55] rauchg: ok
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[23:55] rauchg: are you running in dev
[23:55] rauchg: or prod mode
[23:55] itissid: dev
[23:56] NjsL: hello
[23:56] rauchg: what happens if after
[23:56] rauchg: you launch the app
[23:56] rauchg: you go straight to the route
[23:56] NjsL: I'm learning how and why I should use Node.js and I'm trying to run an example (the first one here: http://blog.nemikor.com/2010/05/21/long-polling-in-nodejs/).
[23:56] rauchg: that gives you the cannot find module error
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[23:57] NjsL: I think I'm misunderstanding something because I can't handle two request with this code
[23:57] Stephen: NjsL: A lot has changed since that example was written. Where are you having trouble?
[23:57] itissid: rauchg, So you mean to ask if i go straight to the line 208 route?
[23:58] rauchg: yep
[23:58] itissid: Then it gives me an oauth error cause it has to go through the oauth 
[23:58] itissid: cycle first
[23:58] rauchg: it seems to me that some side effect must be at play
[23:58] itissid: Error getting OAuth access token : { statusCode: 401, data: '\n\n Invalid / expired Token\n /oauth/access_token\n\n' }[undefined][undefined][undefined]
[23:58] Stephen: NjsL: Node does not use threaded sandboxes like apache or other web services
[23:58] rauchg: for index not to get the error too
[23:58] Stephen: What leads you to believe you cannot handle 2 requests?
[23:59] NjsL: is it correct?
[23:59] NjsL: I tried to open it two times using my browser but it seems the second request wait to start until the first one is closed
[23:59] rauchg: anyways, you should probably be using a template engine
[23:59] rauchg: if you want to pass data from the route to the view
[23:59] rauchg: that's the whole premise of `render`
[23:59] Stephen: NjsL: You need to do some reading on asynchronous code.
[23:59] itissid: rauchg, Otherwise sendfile will work well in its place?
[23:59] rauchg: yep
[23:59] rauchg: but you might need to specify the views/ directory manually
[23:59] rauchg: and you won't have other conveniences `render` offers.