[00:00] tjholowaychuk: hehe
[00:00] jaequery: anyone know any good alternative to something like chef?
[00:00] Aria: puppet?
[00:00] shimondoodkin: chef supposed to be good
[00:00] Aria: chef is awful "code OS dependencies yourself, have fun with that"
[00:00] jaequery: i just don't do ruby =(
[00:00] quackslike: tjholowaychuk: i find the examples extremely helpful, not just with express specifically, but for overall node style.
[00:01] Aria: Smart person.
[00:01] jaequery: i do php!
[00:01] tjholowaychuk: quackslike: totally, i keep forgetting to add a socket.io example
[00:01] jaequery: am i still smart? :O
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[00:02] quackslike: i've been wondering, what would be a nice way to build a gui app with node as the workhorse, what gui libraries would be a good fit?
[00:02] shimondoodkin: it takes like two days to get to know ruby. i personaly like node js more, then ruby and php.
[00:03] tjholowaychuk: quackslike: for that stuff what I want
[00:03] tjholowaychuk: is
[00:03] quackslike: tjholowaychuk: that would be nice. i dont know much about socket.io at all.. i've been playing with nowjs
[00:03] linnk: quackslike: I think someone is doing gtk bindings for node
[00:03] slickplaid: nowjs uses socket.io, doesn't it?
[00:03] tjholowaychuk: basically a window running webkit (WebView or w/e) that starts up your node app behind the scenes
[00:03] tjholowaychuk: so that it runs like a regular app
[00:03] shimondoodkin: and there was some 3d svg gui
[00:03] dingomanatee has left the channel
[00:03] darshanshankar: slickplaid: yep
[00:03] tjholowaychuk: but is 100% js / html blah blah
[00:03] jaequery: nowjs? what's that
[00:03] quackslike: slickplaid: i think so, but you dont have to do anything with socketio your self afaik
[00:04] slickplaid: right :)
[00:04] Marak: SubStack: represent: http://thechangelog.com/
[00:04] slickplaid: but you're still using it :D
[00:04] quackslike: tjholowaychuk: that's a nice idea.
[00:04] darshanshankar: jaequery: http://nowjs.com -- shared state between client and server, like RPC
[00:04] darshanshankar: jaequery: synced under "now" namespace, with groups, individual client addressing and other features
[00:05] dyer has joined the channel
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[00:05] quackslike: tjholowaychuk: i'd like a native UI.. i was wondering if chrome or the mozilla widget library might be a good idea.
[00:05] quackslike: i dont know much about those though..
[00:05] kmwallio has joined the channel
[00:05] tjholowaychuk: i just want web tech
[00:05] SubStack: w00t
[00:05] chalaschek has joined the channel
[00:05] quackslike: tjholowaychuk: i see
[00:06] jmoyers: how does one use an object literal as a parameter in coffeescript?
[00:06] jmoyers: totally ot, sorry
[00:07] Silly_Wabbit has joined the channel
[00:07] danfo: tjholowaychuk: sounds like https://github.com/creationix/topcube
[00:08] tjholowaychuk: hmm maybe
[00:08] quackslike: linnk: ok. i might have a sniff around see what that looks like.
[00:08] tjholowaychuk: tim doesnt know c++ tho so i dunno about that haha
[00:08] danfo: just looked at it on the top of http://pinboard.in/t:node.js is all. haha
[00:08] tjholowaychuk: might be similar
[00:09] danfo: I'm totally star struck btw - expressjs rocks
[00:10] tjholowaychuk: thanks man appreciate it
[00:10] tjholowaychuk: he does mention using webview so that might be really similar
[00:10] mikey_p: has anyone one done any work on integrating dnode or nowjs and backbone?
[00:11] sleeplessinc has joined the channel
[00:11] darshanshankar: mikey_p: i was planning on messing with that tonight :)
[00:11] SubStack: mikey_p: guybrush has
[00:11] mikey_p: or is there some obvious reason why that wouldn't make any sense?
[00:11] SubStack: and sorens3n https://github.com/sorensen/backbone-dnode
[00:12] guybrush: and there is Capsule (which uses plain socketio)
[00:12] Draggor: dnode with pub/sub?  That's sexy
[00:12] SubStack: here's the other one https://github.com/guybrush/backbone-rpc-example
[00:12] dcelix has joined the channel
[00:12] SubStack: in dnode you can roll your own pubsub and it ain't nothin'
[00:13] sechrist: webkit bindings hooah
[00:13] SubStack: just throw an EventEmitter around
[00:13] guybrush: `v git Capsule
[00:13] v8bot: guybrush: andyet/Capsule - GitHub - https://github.com/andyet/Capsule
[00:13] mikey_p: open source and github are just like jesus: ask and ye shall receive ;)
[00:13] wafflesburger has joined the channel
[00:13] sechrist: so can somebody explain to me why NowJS exists?
[00:14] guybrush: why not :p
[00:14] sechrist: I am failing to see the importance of it, let alone the importance of them having a real company founded behind this idea
[00:14] mikey_p: i guess uber are using it
[00:14] wafflesburger: to get seed money probably
[00:15] wafflesburger: from clueless investors
[00:15] sechrist: exactly
[00:15] darshanshankar: ahem
[00:15] sechrist: it's kind of infuriating
[00:15] darshanshankar: i wouldn't make accusations like that
[00:15] darshanshankar: without backing that up
[00:15] darshanshankar: you're quite literally trolling
[00:15] wafflesburger: it's the internet, since when do we have to back up claims? :P
[00:15] sjbreen: I believe it's a nicer warpper around socket.io
[00:15] darshanshankar: without know the business behind nowjs
[00:15] sechrist: there better be a platform, some nice debugging tools, or something
[00:15] jhurliman: you can never have too many abstraction layers on top of rpc
[00:16] mikey_p: i'm not that impressed with what i've seen, but i'd rather just ignore it that troll IRC
[00:16] sechrist: they need to provide some value over my homie's projects on github
[00:16] sechrist: for me not to be infuriated
[00:16] darshanshankar: so you have a major bias
[00:16] darshanshankar: and you're trolling
[00:16] darshanshankar: awesome
[00:16] mikey_p: did you personally invest in them?
[00:16] darshanshankar: im a founder
[00:16] wafflesburger: no i don't have a bias
[00:16] darshanshankar: (talking about sechrist )
[00:16] mikey_p: if so, you're talking to the wrong people about your frustration
[00:17] sechrist: yes I'm trolling
[00:17] jlecker has joined the channel
[00:17] sechrist: because I'm assuming that they achieved funding based on the fact that nodejs floods hacker news
[00:17] sechrist: and angels went "OMG"
[00:17] halfhalo: trollololing
[00:17] gtramont1na has joined the channel
[00:17] darshanshankar: your assumption is incorrect
[00:17] brianm has joined the channel
[00:17] sechrist: that's fine
[00:17] sechrist: but that's my assumption
[00:17] SubStack: I need to flood more personally
[00:17] xeodox: nowjs is awesome lol
[00:17] SubStack: it's a skill
[00:17] jlecker has left the channel
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[00:18] sechrist: SubStack++
[00:18] v8bot:  sechrist has given a beer to SubStack. SubStack now has 27 beers.
[00:18] Marak: we talking about nowjs?
[00:18] sechrist: yes
[00:18] xeodox: didn't have to deal with ajax or anything else anymore, pheww~
[00:18] sechrist: omg ajax so hard
[00:18] sechrist: if you're using node, there's node-dnode and even socket.io
[00:18] sechrist: which you could build the same thing on top of
[00:19] xeodox: socket.io is a bitch to scale
[00:19] halfhalo: yeah, don't see the point of nowjs myself
[00:19] gtramont1na has joined the channel
[00:19] Marak: i dont see how nowjs is going to make money
[00:19] sechrist: xeodox: it's not "a bitch" to scale, because I've done it
[00:19] darshanshankar: you realize we're building a scalable cluster version to sell to enterprise?
[00:19] Marak: nowjs should have the proxy stuff removed into a seperate module, and built better
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[00:19] sechrist: howerver it's all custom
[00:19] Marak: then use something else for the transport
[00:19] Marak: i dunno
[00:19] sechrist: I have socket.io events sharded and shit
[00:19] wafflesburger: does it support horizontal scalilng and sharding
[00:19] sechrist: and clustering is coming soon claims guille I think
[00:20] sechrist: mine is horizontal backed by rabbitmq
[00:20] sechrist: my goal was to get events out of node as soon as possible and into a broker
[00:20] jmoyers: HORIZONTAL?
[00:20] jmoyers: and backed by an MQ
[00:20] sechrist: yes
[00:20] sechrist: of course!
[00:20] jmoyers: jesus i just got buzzed with buzzwords
[00:20] wafflesburger: :D
[00:20] quackslike: this is what's called tall poppy syndrome..
[00:21] sechrist: you're assuming it's a single node message queue
[00:21] Marak: do the nowjs guys even come in here? i dont think ive ever talked to them or know who they are
[00:21] Marak: not community players as far as i know
[00:21] tjholowaychuk: I scale socket.io diagonally
[00:21] quackslike: rip someone down because your're either too stupid to do it yourself, or didnt think of it first..
[00:21] tjholowaychuk: booyah
[00:21] quackslike: tjholowaychuk: lol
[00:21] sechrist: i'm not ripping anybody down, but if it is true that they exploited VCs to get funding by throwing "node node node" around
[00:21] quackslike: nowjs seems good to me
[00:21] sechrist: I'd be sad
[00:21] jhurliman: i'm going to use that in our next pitch. diagonal scalability
[00:21] SubStack: Marak: darshanshankar is in here
[00:21] jmoyers: heh
[00:21] darshanshankar: i didn't realize how nasty this community is
[00:21] SubStack: and a few others
[00:22] jmoyers: nobody's 'exploiting' vc's
[00:22] sechrist: no i'm just nasty
[00:22] darshanshankar: im shocked that im literally getting trolled
[00:22] quackslike: pfft exploited VC's get real
[00:22] jmoyers: vc's exploit
[00:22] darshanshankar: since i PERSONALLY raised money
[00:22] darshanshankar: and i definitely didn't exploit anyone
[00:22] demastrie has joined the channel
[00:22] sechrist: well then quiet me down
[00:22] Marak: darshanshankar: who is trolling you?
[00:22] wafflesburger: well i didn't mean to start this
[00:22] wafflesburger: i just made a joke
[00:22] wadey: darshanshankar: haters gonna hate
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[00:22] jhurliman: node.js based 0-day VC exploit? i smell a headline coming
[00:22] darshanshankar: LOL
[00:22] wafflesburger: that wasn't even targetted at nowjs but rather the tech business environment in genereal
[00:22] sechrist: LOL
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[00:22] quackslike: and so what if they did exploit VC's that's life.. VC's are meant to be business savvy.. if they're not - then tough luck for them..
[00:23] darshanshankar: i just dont think you should rip on a company without knowing anything about it
[00:23] quackslike: darshanshankar: agreed.
[00:23] samsonjs_ has joined the channel
[00:23] darshanshankar: you don't even know anything about our business
[00:23] ChrisPartridge: jhurliman: lol
[00:23] Marak: darshanshankar: to my understanding, you plan on selling a hosted "nowjs cluster" platform as a service. is that correct?
[00:23] mikey_p: please no anti-node rhetoric on hacker news, already got enough of that
[00:23] sechrist: darshanshankar: after this past YC round, I had 2 angels ask me about nowjs
[00:23] postwait has joined the channel
[00:23] sechrist: and i couldn't justify anything based on what I saw on github and the website
[00:23] darshanshankar: not exactly Marak
[00:23] sechrist: and that's what I told them
[00:23] stepheneb has joined the channel
[00:23] wafflesburger: darshanshankar; i was jking xC and people thought i was super cereal
[00:23] sechrist: I couldn't figure out what the business was for if their project was on github
[00:23] Marak: darshanshankar: well maybe you should clarify your goals a little and community might better understand what you are trying to do
[00:24] sechrist: so I can only assume they raised funding for that code
[00:24] jmoyers: raising money and starting a company is hard enough
[00:24] darshanshankar: yeah i realize that
[00:24] darshanshankar: our website tells nothing about the company
[00:24] jacter has joined the channel
[00:24] sechrist: nodejitsu, on the other hand
[00:24] sechrist: is very clear about their goals
[00:24] tjholowaychuk: Marak: saw the funding blog post or w/e a while back there, congrats!
[00:24] sechrist: who they raised funding from
[00:24] sechrist: who they are
[00:24] sechrist: all kinds of shit
[00:24] quackslike: Marak: why does he need to get the community to understand what they're doing?
[00:24] darshanshankar: Marak: we license the technology and support it on an enterprise level
[00:24] mikey_p: did anyone notice that the article about nginx with embedded v8, that bashed v8 made it to the top of hacker news the day of nodeconf?
[00:24] SubStack: don't feel sorry for VCs, they have too much money anyhow
[00:25] sechrist: darshanshankar: if your goal is to support nodejs based eventing for enterprise, that's awesome
[00:25] sechrist: but I would have never gleaned that from anything I can find on the internets
[00:25] darshanshankar: like we are focused on enterprise which is a whole different ball game
[00:25] newy_ has joined the channel
[00:25] quackslike: SubStack: i dont feel sorry for the rich very often :)
[00:25] Marak: tjholowaychuk: thanks...we ballin now...got like 10 hires...
[00:25] darshanshankar: while substack is focused on stackvm and browserify (which is awesome btw)
[00:25] boehm has joined the channel
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[00:25] Marak: tjholowaychuk: #nodejitsu room is the new hotness
[00:25] tjholowaychuk: Marak: nice nice!
[00:26] SubStack: also #stackvm ;)
[00:26] darshanshankar: and while guille and rafael have learnboost (which is also awesome, that industry needs some change)
[00:26] darshanshankar: so it takes a company to support nowjs-type work at the enterprise level
[00:26] dnolen has joined the channel
[00:26] darshanshankar: the type of robustness required at the enterprise level requires a "bit" of capital, hence why i raised money
[00:26] sechrist: also SLAs
[00:26] wafflesburger: is nodejs robust even?
[00:27] tjholowaychuk: darshanshankar: dont forget to buy guillermo starbucks giftcards to say thanks
[00:27] tjholowaychuk: haha
[00:27] tjholowaychuk: :D
[00:27] Marak: wafflesburger: semver says...
[00:27] darshanshankar: dude guille gets more that sbux giftcards from me
[00:27] perezd has joined the channel
[00:27] darshanshankar: (one day)
[00:27] darshanshankar: im too poor for now :(
[00:28] darshanshankar: sechrist: perhaps i should've updated the website to say all that, then you're opinion might be different eh? lol ;)
[00:28] darshanshankar: your*
[00:28] sechrist: of course
[00:28] sechrist: it's already different
[00:28] darshanshankar: yay sechrist++ XD
[00:28] sechrist: now, tell me how easy it is to cluster your nowjs product
[00:28] darshanshankar: LOL
[00:28] sechrist: and load balance
[00:28] darshanshankar: its not
[00:28] darshanshankar: i mean just the load balancer alone
[00:29] darshanshankar: not easy
[00:29] sechrist: I mean you're enterprise
[00:29] wafflesburger: but i thought nodejs scales scemantically out of the box?
[00:29] sechrist: where's my HA and fault tolerance
[00:29] darshanshankar: well the other part you should probably know...
[00:29] Marak: darshanshankar: what im hearing from you makes me think its more of a snake oil salesman scenario, but personally i cant really hate on someone trying to make money and promote node.js. You might have to accept that the community might be a little upset, so you should act accordingly. 
[00:29] halfhalo: its all tied in using an access DB
[00:29] darshanshankar: most of our enterprise code is not on github
[00:29] slickplaid: you guys sound kind of hostile towards him
[00:29] sechrist: 
ACTION had to make socket.io HA and fault tolerant for an enterprise site

[00:29] sechrist: so i'm genuinely interested
[00:29] sechrist: that makes sense
[00:29] Marak: darshanshankar: most of our enterprise code is on github
[00:29] darshanshankar: ah!
[00:30] brownies has joined the channel
[00:30] Marak: https://github.com/nodejitsu
[00:30] tjholowaychuk: OSS FTW
[00:30] sechrist: nodejitsu in the haus
[00:30] darshanshankar: Marak: gotcha, we haven't open sourced it yet figuring it out with our lawyer this week >.<
[00:30] sechrist: if it isn't open source, we leave it aloneee
[00:30] Marak: and in all likelyness, we will prob OSS a better product then you will be selling.... :-\
[00:30] wafflesburger: where do you find the time to learn nodejs?  is everyone self employed?
[00:30] darshanshankar: we haven't decided on BSD or what
[00:30] sechrist: oh snap Marak++
[00:31] Marak: wafflesburger: i spent a year doing nonstop node for no money, pretty much bankrupted me
[00:31] darshanshankar: what does nodejitsu have to do with us...
[00:31] jwl: i want to have a js file on both node.js and browser
[00:31] wafflesburger: what kind of stuff did you build in that time Marak; 
[00:31] sechrist: a cloud
[00:31] darshanshankar: you guys are going down the Node PaaS route, correct Marak?
[00:31] sechrist: he literally built a cloud
[00:31] slickplaid: lots and lots of chats :D
[00:31] jwl: i can't check this.module because node.js throws an error then
[00:31] wafflesburger: woah, now that sounds scalable sechrist; 
[00:31] Marak: wafflesburger: you seen my github? all sorts of crap
[00:32] jwl: it says this.module isnt defined
[00:32] wafflesburger: no i just read about nodejs yesterday actually
[00:32] Marak: darshanshankar: we are doing PaAS => ASP and everything in between, its a large space
[00:32] wafflesburger: and made a blog thingy with only posting ability
[00:32] jwl: how can i check the environment (browser or node) without either the browser or node throwing an error about undefined variables=
[00:32] sorens3n: waffle: i spent every spare moment i had learning node while employed, now that i'm not, its all day every day
[00:33] Marak: darshanshankar: making scalable fault tolerant node.js web applications is the core of our business
[00:33] darshanshankar: Marak: thats cool - but we have a different challenge with the shared now namespace
[00:33] darshanshankar: we're not in the PaaS market
[00:33] Marak: darshanshankar: sure
[00:34] pyrotechnick: i think you guys need to test nowjs before we start taking you seriouslyt
[00:34] Marak: darshanshankar: if you dont mind me asking, how is hiring going? you finding good node people?
[00:34] darshanshankar: ya man, it just takes time to do everything
[00:34] pyrotechnick: you know what takes more time than writing tests?
[00:34] sorens3n: i would definately suggest dnode over now.js
[00:34] darshanshankar: Marak: still searching, we're focused more on good dist sys guys
[00:35] darshanshankar: pyrotechnick: hmm?
[00:35] pyrotechnick: not having tests and chasing bugs around all day and night
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[00:35] darshanshankar: heh
[00:35] jwl: if (typeof module !== 'undefined' && module.exports) worked
[00:35] darshanshankar: well im sorry, its only been two months
[00:35] pyrotechnick: if i were enterprise i wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole
[00:36] darshanshankar: which is why we're still in development
[00:36] pyrotechnick: i wouldn't touch it in hacking/indy let alone that
[00:36] pyrotechnick: i dont know how you've conned 'enterprise' into something that's not even tested 
[00:36] pyrotechnick: it does not compute
[00:36] darshanshankar: aok
[00:36] darshanshankar: im going to leave now and get work done
[00:36] neoesque has joined the channel
[00:36] darshanshankar: no more troll management from me for today
[00:36] pyrotechnick: troll?
[00:37] pyrotechnick: you take someone suggesting you test your software as trolling
[00:37] darshanshankar: you're trolling a technology thats two months old
[00:37] kmiyashiro has joined the channel
[00:37] sorens3n: ...
[00:37] darshanshankar: how coan you possibly expect
[00:37] darshanshankar: robustness
[00:37] darshanshankar: THIS early
[00:37] pyrotechnick: man you need to watch something for me
[00:37] sorens3n: ...they see me trollin.... they hatin...
[00:37] pyrotechnick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX3iRjKj7C0
[00:38] maximosis has joined the channel
[00:38] pyrotechnick: and you need to come to the conclusion that you're letting yourself be part of a very big problem
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[00:38] tjholowaychuk: the only problem i see
[00:38] tjholowaychuk: is that guillermo did most the work
[00:38] tjholowaychuk: but OSS people usually dont really get the benefit
[00:38] tjholowaychuk: STARBUCKS CARDS!
[00:38] tjholowaychuk: haha
[00:38] tjholowaychuk: jk
[00:39] Marak: tjholowaychuk: people are all like, how can i haz socket scale
[00:39] tjholowaychuk: contributing back is all I would expect
[00:39] Marak: that shit is kinda easy, just a matter of time for a proper lib to get released
[00:39] Marak: plus ryah is working on some badass IPC and child proc stuff
[00:39] pyrotechnick: so well actually have node.js soon?
[00:39] pyrotechnick: the node part not just the js part?
[00:40] jhurliman: speaking of contributing back, does node have a page listing what they need help with?
[00:40] dnolen has joined the channel
[00:40] darshanshankar: tjholowaychuk: i completely agree (we're always going to be OSS)
[00:40] tjholowaychuk: darshanshankar: cool cool
[00:40] shimondoodkin: where to find informatiom about the new idea of node module dir?
[00:41] tjholowaychuk: it's all good if people have success from open source but gotta share the love
[00:41] flippyhead has joined the channel
[00:41] darshanshankar: the second i have more than $500 in my bank account, i'll treat guille to some dinner XD
[00:41] demastrie has left the channel
[00:41] sorens3n: tjholoway: agreed, i think i owe you some starbucks cards ;)
[00:42] darshanshankar: but in the meantime, time to figure out how to pay rent :P
[00:42] tjholowaychuk: loves me some starbucks cards
[00:42] sorens3n: i've been using your projects since i started node.js
[00:42] mikegerwitz: shimondoodkin: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.7/api/modules.html
[00:42] ChrisPartridge: i think everyone has
[00:42] sorens3n: :P
[00:42] wafflesburger: what is this starbucks card business
[00:42] halfhalo: bleh.. coffee
[00:43] sorens3n: mmm, need more coffee now
[00:43] tjholowaychuk: every time you npm install a module it should donate 1 starbucks point to the author haha
[00:43] sorens3n: hahaha
[00:43] tjholowaychuk: and some to the contributors
[00:43] shimondoodkin: mikegerwitz: thanks
[00:43] sorens3n: what does isaac get from that?
[00:43] tjholowaychuk: 0.001 starbucks point
[00:43] tjholowaychuk: haha
[00:43] tjholowaychuk: jk
[00:43] sorens3n: hehehe
[00:44] sorens3n: oh lord the laughing hurts, i've had the crud for a week now :(
[00:44] wafflesburger: yikes!
[00:44] sechrist: darshanshankar: well, if you can get node into the enterprise, high five
[00:44] Hamms has joined the channel
[00:44] sechrist: i'll stop trolling nowjs
[00:44] sorens3n: sechrist: why?
[00:44] halfhalo: its not trolling if its true
[00:44] darshanshankar: its hard, but thats the dream ^_^
[00:44] wafflesburger: what are your ages
[00:45] wafflesburger: i'm polling for average age of nodejs crowd
[00:45] sorens3n: 24
[00:45] rpflo has joined the channel
[00:45] sechrist: I'm 19, but probably on par with the 24-25 year olds in here
[00:45] shimondoodkin: 27
[00:45] tjholowaychuk: 23
[00:45] sh1mmer has joined the channel
[00:45] slickplaid: 28
[00:45] samsonjs has joined the channel
[00:45] darshanshankar: 19 as well
[00:45] SubStack: ages[23]++
[00:45] v8bot:  SubStack has given a beer to ages[23]. ages[23] now has 1 beers.
[00:45] slickplaid: but i'm comprerable to the 19yo out there
[00:46] slickplaid: comparable
[00:46] sechrist: darshanshankar++
[00:46] v8bot:  sechrist has given a beer to darshanshankar. darshanshankar now has 1 beers.
[00:46] halfhalo: 3
[00:46] tjholowaychuk: beer++
[00:46] v8bot:  tjholowaychuk has given a beer to beer. beer now has 0 beers.
[00:46] sechrist: are you in the valley darshan?
[00:46] tjholowaychuk: beer++
[00:46] v8bot:  beer is getting too many beers.  Don't let beer get drunk!
[00:46] darshanshankar: sechrist: we're a company of 3 19 year old dudes trying to sell node to enterprise. i.e. trying to sell node to 60 year olds... sooo hard!
[00:46] darshanshankar: sechrist: indeed, in Berkeley
[00:46] Kami_ has joined the channel
[00:46] sechrist: you're all berkeley peeps?
[00:46] sorens3n: anyone here around the midwest?
[00:46] darshanshankar: yeep
[00:46] Marak: darshanshankar: we are a company of 10+ year seasoned javascript pros lol
[00:46] sorens3n: <-- omaha
[00:47] Marak: :-)
[00:47] darshanshankar: Marak++
[00:47] v8bot:  darshanshankar has given a beer to Marak. Marak now has 2 beers.
[00:47] jhurliman: (reading scrollback) 27
[00:47] sechrist: Marak: how many nodejitsu employees have CS degrees?
[00:47] SubStack: oakland represent
[00:47] halfhalo: Socal ftw
[00:47] quackslike: geez i feel old now.
[00:47] SubStack: although I'm actually in berkeley right now
[00:47] Marak: sechrist: i dunno, more then half i think have masters
[00:47] sechrist: snap
[00:47] tjholowaychuk: pff CS
[00:47] sorens3n: i feel undereducated now
[00:47] Marak: sechrist: its a solid mix of academics and drop outs
[00:47] Marak: im the drop out
[00:47] shimondoodkin: darshanshankar: i tried that,  the problem was too small amount of duedes knew node js vs asp net so we left node js in the enterprise i consult in
[00:47] sechrist: I didn't drop out
[00:47] sechrist: I just didn't go
[00:48] sechrist: valley swooped me up
[00:48] sorens3n: hahaha
[00:48] SubStack: I dropped out with like 2 classes left
[00:48] stagas: shit Im old 29
[00:48] darshanshankar: sechrist++
[00:48] v8bot:  darshanshankar has given a beer to sechrist. sechrist now has 1 beers.
[00:48] SubStack: but fuck it I didn't want to hang around for another semester when I could be hacking full time
[00:48] sechrist: internet moniesss
[00:48] darshanshankar: SubStack: you'll be at hackers and founders tomorrow night yeah?
[00:48] SubStack: yep
[00:48] darshanshankar: sechrist: what do you do these days?
[00:48] darshanshankar: woot see you there
[00:48] sechrist: oh snap that sounds interesting
[00:48] sorens3n: bah i need to get out to the bay
[00:49] sorens3n: u guys get all the fun events
[00:49] sechrist: I work at a cloud videoconferencing company
[00:49] SubStack: sorens3n: protip: east bay is crazy cheap except for berkeley
[00:49] wadey: 26 here, looks like im close to the average :)
[00:49] sorens3n: i lived near the dogpatch for a year before i went heavy into dev'ino
[00:49] SubStack: the peninsula/valley doesn't get cheap until you hit sunnyvale and san jose and who wants to live there?
[00:49] sorens3n: worked out near GrandLake in oakland
[00:49] sechrist: ahhh space lounge 
[00:49] darshanshankar: amen SubStack 
[00:49] sorens3n: thanks for the tip
[00:50] sechrist: well in Sunnyvale's case
[00:50] sechrist: the gateway to hell brings down the property value
[00:50] sorens3n: im heading to washington soon, so i'll be getting closer!
[00:50] SubStack: hahaha
[00:50] xeodox: darshanshankar: Any spots open for hackers and founderes?
[00:50] halfhalo: 
ACTION shall move up there after college

[00:50] darshanshankar: xeodox: no idea, you should just join the waitlist, a bunch of people back out
[00:50] wadey: 
ACTION moving to SF in less than 2 weeks. excited.

[00:50] wafflesburger: where the hell do you find jobs outside of bay / ny
[00:51] SubStack: xeodox: just show up ;)
[00:51] sorens3n: the interwebs... 
[00:51] sorens3n: certainly not local around here
[00:51] darshanshankar: or that too, its not like anyone checks
[00:51] xeodox: SubStack: does that work? lol
[00:51] wafflesburger: no good local resources here either sorens3n; 
[00:51] SubStack: wafflesburger: you can find them they're just far less interesting doing crud/rails/java/php work
[00:51] wafflesburger: in virginia beach :(
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[00:52] SubStack: although there's a lot of that here around the bay too
[00:52] SubStack: but node is at least well represented
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[00:52] sechrist: it's hard as hell to hire here
[00:52] sechrist: I literally have to scalp my old hacker friends back home
[00:52] halfhalo: lol
[00:52] sechrist: and get them here
[00:53] egistli has left the channel
[00:53] halfhalo: if I wasn't in college I would be up there
[00:54] sjbreen: do people not hire remote people? or is on site better experience?
[00:54] ryah: whenever #node.js becomes less than 600 users i become sad
[00:54] halfhalo: hire some hookers to just stay on irc
[00:54] halfhalo: boom, solved
[00:54] jhurliman: on site is always preferable in my experience, but remote can work
[00:54] tjholowaychuk: sjbreen: remove is fine
[00:54] slickplaid: wait what is node.js? i thought i was in ruby
[00:54] tjholowaychuk: we are almost all remote
[00:54] halfhalo: slickplaid: no, ruby moved to php
[00:54] slickplaid: ooh ok
[00:54] slickplaid: got lost in the shuffle
[00:55] nexxy: slickplaid, you should have known better
[00:55] Marak: darshanshankar: are you aware of the project https://github.com/substack/dnode ? just curious
[00:55] wafflesburger: how do you start finding jobs
[00:55] nexxy: #node.js isn't nearly as pretentious
[00:55] wafflesburger: as a student
[00:55] nexxy: (yet)
[00:55] sorens3n: Marak: love that project
[00:55] tjholowaychuk: wafflesburger: github, they find you
[00:55] slickplaid: hehe
[00:55] sjbreen: cool
[00:55] darshanshankar: lol of course Marak ....
[00:55] Marak: darshanshankar: dont lol at me, this is the first time i remember seeing you in here
[00:55] Marak: :-)
[00:56] halfhalo: 
ACTION got a job via a combo of online forum activity and phpness

[00:56] darshanshankar: we were talking about dnode vs nowjs just a short while ago
[00:56] darshanshankar: but yeah i dont spend much time in here
[00:56] tim_smart: wafflesburger: Where are you located and how long have you been using node.js?
[00:56] wafflesburger: virginia beach and i don't use nodejs
[00:56] nexxy: 
ACTION lols @ Marak just to spite him

[00:56] wafflesburger: virginia beach / norfolk
[00:56] Marak: darshanshankar: i feel that if you built an additional library that was outside of dnode, you'd get the same functionality
[00:57] tim_smart: wafflesburger: You want a job in something you haven't used?
[00:57] Marak: darshanshankar: maybe use dnode as the transport for nowjs, i dont know. i havent looked too deep into your codebase
[00:57] wafflesburger: no i'm not talking about node jobs xD
[00:57] tim_smart: Oh
[00:57] SubStack: easy to do with dnode-protocol!
[00:57] sorens3n: there he is!
[00:57] darshanshankar: a bit too late for that now
[00:58] SubStack: although it's always hard to move to a new codebase behind the scenes
[00:58] sorens3n: ahaha, i was doing a countdown until SubStack popped in
[00:58] darshanshankar: yeah
[00:58] slickplaid: i thought substack lived here
[00:58] SubStack: I was back at the counter ordering another americano
[00:58] SubStack: THUS EXPLAINS MY LEAVE OF SEVERAL MINUTES
[00:58] slickplaid: :)
[00:58] halfhalo: suuure
[00:58] rfay has joined the channel
[00:59] SubStack: also poaching internet friends from back home is a useful hiring strategy
[00:59] hij1nx has joined the channel
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[00:59] darshanshankar: SubStack what happens when you're from the middle of Wisconsin and nobody has heard of javascript back there? :P
[00:59] SubStack: if you live in a non-competitive hiring environment especially
[00:59] SubStack: or lived, I should say
[00:59] SubStack: jesusabdullah: ^^^
[01:00] wafflesburger: did you build a portfolio from personal projects or work projects
[01:00] SubStack: darshanshankar: well you can make them aware yourself
[01:00] SubStack: wafflesburger: oh goodness yes
[01:00] jesusabdullah: darshanshankar: You drive to Minnessota
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[01:00] SubStack: it's easier to build up a solid block of personal projects because you can decide whatever you want to build
[01:00] jesusabdullah: darshanshankar: Actually, I would say that Wisconsin has a small but growing tech scene in Madison
[01:00] wafflesburger: yeah
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[01:01] SubStack: or if you work at an awesome company like browserling you can just keep doing that
[01:01] jesusabdullah: awesome engineering college, plus a pretty big programming company
[01:01] wafflesburger: have you ever finished a personal project though :D
[01:01] darshanshankar: jesusabdullah: didn't spend much time in Madison, but I wouldn't be surprised
[01:01] darshanshankar: they've got a great CS program
[01:01] jesusabdullah: (only large startup-ish thing there)
[01:01] jesusabdullah: Yeah
[01:01] jesusabdullah: They had a hacking place there too
[01:01] sjbreen: I like an awesome company like browserling ^_^
[01:01] darshanshankar: jesusabdullah: considered UWMadison but the draw of silicon valley was too hard
[01:01] jesusabdullah: Yeah
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[01:01] wafflesburger: personally i have started 10 different projects, and not finished one of them, do you think that kind of thing is worth adding to a portfolio xD
[01:01] SubStack: jesusabdullah: at browserling, you'll be expected to work on whatever the fuck
[01:01] jesusabdullah: My ex and I talked about moving to Madison
[01:01] jesusabdullah: SubStack: WHAT
[01:02] SubStack: DO AS YOU ARE TOLD
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[01:02] slickplaid: oh snap
[01:02] jesusabdullah: You know, that really obliterates the concept of a job description there
[01:02] SubStack: it does, doesn't it?
[01:02] jesusabdullah: "this wasn't in my job descript----oh wait"
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[01:02] SubStack: work on whatever you think needs working on
[01:02] halfhalo: lol
[01:03] SubStack: seems to be the norm for startups at this stage though
[01:03] nexxy: ;< that's been my approach
[01:03] SubStack: and smarter middle-stage startups
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[01:03] nexxy: but then I end up spending 2 days on a slider widget
[01:03] nexxy: ;/
[01:04] sjbreen: SubStack, do you pay in money or shares though :D
[01:04] SubStack: yes
[01:04] sjbreen: haha
[01:04] tonymilne: lol @ substack
[01:04] tjholowaychuk: its hard to work with this much coffee
[01:04] tim_smart: darshanshankar: You looking for a node job?
[01:04] jhurliman: this channel is sassy today
[01:05] darshanshankar: tim_smart: the opposite :P hiring node
[01:05] slickplaid: sassy channel
[01:05] tim_smart: Oh :)
[01:05] systemfault: I would love a node job in montreal :P
[01:05] nexxy: darshanshankar, too late... joyent beat you to it!
[01:05] halfhalo: sassymcsassyness
[01:05] darshanshankar: nexxy++
[01:05] v8bot:  darshanshankar has given a beer to nexxy. nexxy now has 2 beers.
[01:05] tim_smart: systemfault: I can offer one in Mountain View :p
[01:05] wafflesburger: we should all give each other $1, we'll be millionaires in no time
[01:06] darshanshankar: i want a joyent shirt
[01:06] nexxy: omg someone stole 2 of my beers
[01:06] sjbreen: you guys would be looking for someone who's well versed in node or a beginner willing to learn?
[01:06] halfhalo: i want a million dollars
[01:06] halfhalo: it shall be mine soon enough...
[01:06] darshanshankar: i would help me avoid doing laundry XD
[01:06] slickplaid: stole/drank, what's the difference :D
[01:06] nexxy: wafflesburger, sounds like a gifting scam I was pitched on once
[01:07] wafflesburger: this is no scam, i did the math
[01:07] nexxy: LOL oh
[01:07] nexxy: and how much does it cost to become a "certified gifting agent" ?
[01:07] halfhalo: 50 dollars up front payable to me
[01:08] nexxy: ok but what if I want the training to become a "certified certified gifting agent trainer" trainer?
[01:08] wafflesburger: you just pass $5 to the person to your right and $1 to the person 2 spaces to your right, i'll just move around the circle making sure no one is scamming
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[01:09] halfhalo: its time for... pyramid scheme game show extrodanair!
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[01:10] nexxy: um halfhalo, excuse me... it's a circle
[01:10] halfhalo: not anymore
[01:10] nexxy: circle with a satellite
[01:10] halfhalo: now, do you want to be sent back to the bottom of the pyramid or not
[01:11] SubStack: hey lookit, dnode on the front page http://news.ycombinator.com/
[01:11] nexxy: what if that's what I'm into?
[01:11] SubStack: upboat before it slips off!
[01:11] halfhalo: supertrippledownvote
[01:11] sorens3n: hehe
[01:11] darshanshankar: upboated
[01:11] sorens3n: <- first upvote here
[01:11] nexxy: all I gots upgoats
[01:11] SubStack: <3
[01:11] nexxy: SubStack, those work?
[01:11] ericnakagawa: upmoat
[01:12] darshanshankar: i feel like pg's new vote algorithm messed things up
[01:12] SubStack: it seems kind of wonky sometimes
[01:12] mjr__ has joined the channel
[01:12] SubStack: and then HN gets so much spam now
[01:12] jhurliman: i feel tricked. dnode claims to be language agnostic, however i cannot find the visual basic bindings
[01:12] halfhalo: what....
[01:13] SubStack: jhurliman: you've discovered the dark secret!
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[01:13] nexxy: what no intercal support!?
[01:13] jesusabdullah: nexxy: New job?
[01:14] SubStack: jhurliman: conversely, visual basic isn't a real language™
[01:14] Adman65 has joined the channel
[01:14] nexxy: jesusabdullah, que?
[01:14] slickplaid: anyone have a tutorial for test driven design in nodejs?
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[01:14] jhurliman: aww
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[01:15] jesusabdullah: Was that you? Somebody was working for joyent
[01:15] nexxy: lol
[01:15] jesusabdullah: and I was wondering how recently that happened
[01:15] themiddleman_itv has joined the channel
[01:15] nexxy: not I!
[01:15] jesusabdullah: ah!
[01:15] nexxy: I work for no man!
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[01:16] jesusabdullah: Why not?!
[01:16] jesusabdullah: Y U NO JOB
[01:16] nexxy: I has lotsa jobs
[01:17] piscisaureus: http://scanlime.org/2011/05/cia-vc-service-is-down-indefinitely/
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[01:18] nexxy: jesusabdullah, I just don't work well in a corporate environment ;<
[01:18] nexxy: all this "authority" and "standard operating procedure"
[01:18] jesusabdullah: What do you generally do?
[01:18] nexxy: solve problems!
[01:19] nexxy: and make the world shine
[01:19] nexxy: not necessarily in that order
[01:19] SubStack: nexxy: what are those?
[01:19] SubStack: this "authority" you speak of, I've heard of them
[01:19] nexxy: you mean other than never-ending?
[01:19] SubStack: but never met
[01:20] ChrisPartridge: SubStack: Trying to wrap up a piece of dnode middleware nicely, and I have a module.middleware(config) which returns the dnode middleware, but i also have module.client() which contains a preconfigured dnode client for the browser.. the question is - can I browserify a single export from a module?
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[01:20] nexxy: SubStack, the closest I've ever been to them... is on the other side of a door
[01:21] SubStack: ChrisPartridge: you sure probably can!
[01:21] SubStack: to you mean to inject into the /dnode.js?
[01:21] SubStack: hmmm I should probably expose the browserify options so you can do crazy stuff like that
[01:21] Aria: Wow, no CIA. Crazy talk.
[01:22] halfhalo: time to make our own!
[01:22] SubStack: ChrisPartridge: you can always just browserify({ require : [ 'dnode', 'dnode-yourmiddlewarething' ] }) in the meanwhile
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[01:23] ChrisPartridge: SubStack: Yeah, but that sends the entire dnode-yourmiddlewarething to the client - the questions is, can i just send dnode-yourmiddlewarething.someExport ?
[01:24] ChrisPartridge: or am I not making any sense?
[01:24] SubStack: ChrisPartridge: you can have browser-specific code for packages in browserify, just set the browserify field in the package.json
[01:24] SubStack: sounds like that's what you want?
[01:24] SubStack: that's what dnode does so you can require('dnode') browser-side
[01:24] ChrisPartridge: SubStack: haha, that easy huh... 
[01:24] ChrisPartridge: awesome
[01:25] SubStack: yeah check out the dnode package.json for an example
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[01:25] SubStack: yay more middleware codes for dnode!
[01:25] ChrisPartridge: dnode-smoothiecharts coming soon ;-)
[01:25] SubStack: sweet
[01:26] SubStack: people have been some highly excellent add-ons for my modules lately, I like this
[01:26] ChrisPartridge: SubStack; I would have done it sooner, but I never realised dnode was bidirectional
[01:26] ChrisPartridge: makes things so much easier
[01:27] SubStack: bidirectional and symmetric and everything!
[01:27] SubStack: I got the idea for drb
[01:27] SubStack: *from
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[01:27] sorens3n: that reminds me, i still need to release the latest dnode add-on i've made for backbone :(
[01:27] SubStack: except drb is synchronous and tries to serialize using yaml or some bullshit
[01:27] SubStack: but otherwise is a great idea
[01:27] Aria: True that. Ruby marshal, actually.
[01:27] SubStack: oh that's the thing
[01:28] Aria: And it makes sense if you're not gonna go async
[01:28] Aria: But async kicks its ass.
[01:28] SubStack: it super sucks if your server is blocking while other requests are coming inbound
[01:28] ChrisPartridge: ew yaml
[01:28] SubStack: have to build your own threadpool
[01:28] SubStack: which is super lame
[01:29] Aria: Yeah. But that's just ruby's weaksauce threading and old standard library.
[01:29] wafflesburger: is backbone.js as sexy as it looks
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[01:29] mscdex: why is it Buffer is missing read/write float and buffer methods?
[01:29] mscdex: :S
[01:30] sorens3n: waffles; yes
[01:30] mscdex: er s/buffer/double/
[01:30] sorens3n: imho anyway
[01:31] sorens3n: brings some order and control to the GUI in a big way
[01:31] sorens3n: as just one use case
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[01:34] wafflesburger: do you think it's useful outside of single page webapps sorens3n; ?
[01:35] sorens3n: definately, i'm always re-using elements though
[01:36] sorens3n: for me its kept me sane, being able to organize all the jquery code on a page to some defineable view/model
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[01:37] sorens3n: but, it all depends what your doing 
[01:37] sorens3n: i'm probably not the best to give it the props it deserves
[01:37] wafflesburger: alrighty
[01:38] wafflesburger: just wondering if it's worth learning
[01:38] sorens3n: i would say definately so
[01:38] ChrisPartridge: SubStack: in my module i'm browserifying, if I require('dnode'), i then only need to tell browserify to get my module right? (and it will recursively include dnode?)
[01:38] wafflesburger: not sure if it's a solution to something that's not really a problem, know what i mean?
[01:38] sorens3n: yep i know what you mean 
[01:38] sorens3n: do you have a possible use case in mind?
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[01:39] shimondoodkin: how to use a not installed npm?
[01:39] wafflesburger: nothing specific in mind
[01:39] wafflesburger: just pondering
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[01:39] tmpvar: wafflesburger, i hear ya
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[01:40] tmpvar: yo hij1nx 
[01:40] SubStack: ChrisPartridge: you can list dnode as a dependency, sure
[01:41] SubStack: in your browserified package.json
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[01:41] sorens3n: backbone is jquery on steroids, if you find yourself doing a lot of jquery then it is probably worth taking a look at
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[01:45] tmpvar: sorens3n, not quite sure about that
[01:45] tmpvar: jquery has no notion of MVC
[01:45] tmpvar: or structure for that matter (heh)
[01:45] sorens3n: thus the steroids
[01:46] sorens3n: it might be a bit of a bad analogy
[01:47] mjr__: Maybe just if you like steroids, then check out backbone.
[01:47] ryah: https://gist.github.com/967780
[01:47] ryah: do people like how this looks?
[01:47] ryah: thinking about changing liboio to libi0
[01:47] ryah: oio is too hard to pronounce
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[01:48] ryah: "eye-zero" sounds awesome too
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[01:49] Aria: I like that.  A lot.
[01:49] jhurliman: so this is the abstraction api on top of linux sockets and windows IOCP?
[01:49] mjr__: It looks like it should be pronounced "eye oh"
[01:50] mjr__: like you are trying to be clever and putting a 0 instead of an o
[01:50] ryah: jhurliman: yeah
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[01:50] ryah: mjr__: that's the little joke
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[01:50] softdrink: Apparently jsfiddle works on the iPad :)
[01:50] softdrink: Cloud9 not so much
[01:52] jhurliman: ryah, how do i0_ref() and i0_unref() (event loop code) relate to asynchronous sockets? is there an internal event loop in libi0?
[01:52] ryah: jhurliman: yes
[01:53] softdrink: Call it O_o
[01:55] aconbere has joined the channel
[01:55] jhurliman: api looks good. it would be interesting to see a small proof of concept that has nothing to do with node.js built with libi0/liboio, like a basic netcat implementation
[01:56] jwl: is it better to serve files using CDN or node.js?
[01:57] SubStack: jwl: depends on what sort of files you need to serve
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[01:58] ryah: i think we're going with libwu now
[01:58] pedrobelo has joined the channel
[01:58] tmpvar: ?
[01:58] tmpvar: lib wut up
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[02:00] ryah: windows / unix
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[02:00] jhurliman: lib windows / unix socket server
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[02:00] ryah: also hat tip to a certain nerdy hip-hop group
[02:02] softdrink: One that ain't nothin to f*ck wit?
[02:02] SubStack: hip hop you say?
[02:02] jwl: SubStack: so what files are good for CDN and node.js?
[02:02] SubStack: jwl: well with stuff like browserify you can put files like jquery all up on npm and serve them up
[02:03] SubStack: disclaimer I wrote browserify
[02:03] softdrink: Webdev via iPad and ssh is difficult.
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[02:04] softdrink: Just sayin
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[02:05] superphly: Hey guys, not sure if this is the right channel to be asking this question, but I'm having some issues with an application written in node.js I believe
[02:05] softdrink: I'm sure it would be ok with a real keyboard though
[02:06] ryah: superphly: ask away
[02:06] superphly: I'm running TileMill and just got done compiling it and what not... I run the tilemill.js and the server starts and waits for a connection... all is good at that point
[02:06] superphly: once I connect from the browser it loads the interface then loses connection because the server crashes with this error:
[02:07] superphly: fs:282
[02:07] superphly:   binding.mkdir(path, mode, callback || noop);
[02:07] superphly: not sure if that's a binding for node.js, which is why i'm a bit confused as to where i'm supposed to be asking
[02:09] jwl: SubStack: what is the main difference between browserify and now.js?
[02:09] ryah: superphly: fs is a node module
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[02:10] superphly: what's the best way to go about getting that installed, it should have come with the pull i'm guessing
[02:10] ryah: superphly: hard to say... maybe you don't have permissions to mkdir?is that all it says?
[02:10] SubStack: jwl: browserify is a browser-side require() thing
[02:11] superphly: http://pastebin.com/X0UWTf6s
[02:11] jwl: it sends the js to the browser
[02:11] SubStack: now.js is an rpc module, completely different
[02:11] jwl: you cant run the code in the server right?
[02:11] jwl: okay
[02:11] SubStack: browserify bundles up your source into a single file so you can require() stuff like you can do in plain-old node.js
[02:12] SubStack: which is actually a useful thing to do just not in the ways you might expect
[02:12] superphly: ryah: http://pastebin.com/X0UWTf6s
[02:12] sjbreen: browserify == node bundler??
[02:12] sjbreen: like the ruby bundler
[02:12] SubStack: yes
[02:13] sjbreen: cool, I do understand it
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[02:18] guybrush: jwl: just to give you other options too - there is also https://github.com/ender-js/Ender and https://github.com/visionmedia/express-expose
[02:19] jesusabdullah: I would be interested in using ender in concert with browserify
[02:19] guybrush: besides https://github.com/substack/node-browserify
[02:19] jesusabdullah: such that you can use browserify ender's submodules
[02:19] guybrush: right thats a good idea actually
[02:20] guybrush: but maybe it would be better to provide browserify with a cli
[02:20] jesusabdullah: hence https://github.com/ender-js/Ender/issues/27
[02:20] jesusabdullah: Either one!
[02:20] jesusabdullah: Actually, both
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[02:21] jwl: guybrush: ender looks interesting
[02:21] jwl: but it would be great with some docs
[02:21] jwl: how do you use it
[02:22] guybrush: it is very simple , some docs are here: http://ender.no.de/
[02:22] jesusabdullah: Yeah, my "issue" had been solved but afaik what I asked about is still undocumented
[02:22] jesusabdullah: The basics are g2g though
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[02:27] jwl: i dont really get it
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[02:30] jesusabdullah: It just bundles up libraries for you
[02:30] jesusabdullah: You could do all that yourself
[02:30] jesusabdullah: but it's a tool for that, basically
[02:30] jesusabdullah: with "blessed" libs and a unifying api
[02:30] kmiyashiro: I wish people wouldn't use $
[02:31] kmiyashiro: can you specify a different namespace?
[02:31] jesusabdullah: the thing is that they're small libraries that only do one thing, so you can bundle, basically, a customized version of this one library for every project, depending on what you need and don't need
[02:31] jesusabdullah: Cool idea
[02:31] jesusabdullah: kmiyashiro: I think so? i haven't actually used it, just read about it
[02:31] SubStack: kmiyashiro: you can with browserify!
[02:31] SubStack: var $ = require('jquery-browserify')
[02:32] SubStack: or var moo or whatevs
[02:32] jesusabdullah: for example
[02:32] kmiyashiro: I thought ender was a frontend thing
[02:32] SubStack: it's pretty boss
[02:32] jesusabdullah: It is
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[02:32] kmiyashiro: what is browserify?
[02:32] kmiyashiro: who is it and what does he do?
[02:32] jesusabdullah: browserify is a thing that bundles npm repos for client-side
[02:33] jesusabdullah: includes some basic events and a require()
[02:33] kmiyashiro: bwhaat?
[02:33] SubStack: not just npm repos but also directories
[02:33] SubStack: so you can write your browser code just like you write node code
[02:33] SuperPhly: having some errors with node.js and the fs module. It's reporting that   binding.mkdir(path, mode, callback || noop); has a bad argument
[02:33] jesusabdullah: kmiyashiro: https://github.com/substack/node-browserify
[02:34] jesusabdullah: kmiyashiro: also, http://ender.no.de
[02:34] SuperPhly: Anyone here care to help me identify why this might be happening? http://pastebin.com/X0UWTf6s
[02:34] jesusabdullah: I actually think it'd be nice to combine ender.no.de with browserify
[02:34] SuperPhly: do i need to upgrade a library or two on my system to get that object.mkdir call to work?
[02:35] kmiyashiro: why would you use stuff from npm in the browser?
[02:35] jesusabdullah: SuperPhly: Looks like one of your args isn't what you think it is
[02:35] jesusabdullah: kmiyashiro: some of it is relatively general-purpose, and it's nice to have ssjs and csjs act similarly
[02:35] SubStack: kmiyashiro: npm is a nice way to distribute modules
[02:35] piscisaureus has joined the channel
[02:35] SubStack: there are nice flow control libs on there too
[02:35] SubStack: and data transformation libs that you might want to use browser-side
[02:35] amerine has joined the channel
[02:36] kmiyashiro: such as?
[02:36] SubStack: or template engines and fun stuff like that
[02:36] SubStack: such as traverse, hashish, jade, seq, step, async
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[02:36] SubStack: like half of my modules actually
[02:36] SubStack: plus stuff like jquery-browserify
[02:39] jesusabdullah: SubStack: Still need someone to run browserified jsdom, in jsdom from node
[02:39] SubStack: oh?
[02:40] kmiyashiro: so many libraries
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[02:41] wafflesburger: so many dependencies :)
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[02:44] kmiyashiro: wonder how qwery and sizzle differ
[02:44] quackslike: there is a template library called hashish?
[02:45] quackslike: if i was allowed in the US i reckon i'd head to the place where you can get the medical gunja..
[02:45] quackslike: where ever that is..
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[02:48] steveklabnik: i just upgraded node and npm, because i installed them a long time ago. now i tried to npm install coffeescript, and it says it's not in the registry. npm update doesnt do anything. thoughts?
[02:48] steveklabnik: how'm I noobing out?
[02:48] kmiyashiro: npm 0.x to 1.0?
[02:49] steveklabnik: yeah
[02:49] kmiyashiro: what does npm -v say
[02:49] steveklabnik: 1.0.6
[02:50] kmiyashiro: hm
[02:50] kmiyashiro: can't find coffeescript module
[02:50] kmiyashiro: npm install -g coffee-script
[02:50] steveklabnik: npm ERR! 404 'coffeescript' is not in the npm registry.
[02:51] steveklabnik: ... wow
[02:51] steveklabnik: i swear i copy and pasted it. i must not have.
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[02:51] steveklabnik: it's still complaining though
[02:51] steveklabnik: npm ERR! error installing coffee-script@1.1.1 Error: Refusing to delete non-npm file (override with --force)
[02:51] steveklabnik: i guess i should just --force it
[02:51] steveklabnik: it's probably from the old one.
[02:51] kmiyashiro: yeah, if you installed it with older npm might be
[02:51] steveklabnik: when i upgraded npm it informed me it'd 'forcibly remove' my old stuff
[02:52] steveklabnik: awesome.
[02:52] steveklabnik: thanks.
[02:52] kmiyashiro: np
[02:52] steveklabnik: it never fails. as soon as you ask a question, you find out you're doing something stupid. :)
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[02:56] wafflesburger: i just yelled come at me bro at this gnat
[02:56] wafflesburger: then realized what i did
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[03:15] nerdfunk: so.. i made a little twist on the collaborative canvas hello-world-ism of socket io.. 
[03:15] jesusabdullah: Show us nerdfunk !
[03:15] nerdfunk: http://socketstarz.nodester.com/ be gentle :P it draws between all people currently there so you get weird webs of lines. only tried it with 2 or 3 people so far haha
[03:16] nerdfunk: alas, only working on chrome too
[03:17] nerdfunk_ has joined the channel
[03:17] unconed: nerdfunk: or safari
[03:17] unconed: nerdfunk: or safari
[03:17] unconed: meh :P
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[03:18] unconed: nerdfunk: would be perhaps better if it was more like a collaborative kaleidoscope instead of collaborative scribble
[03:18] nerdfunk: gah. shaky connection all up in this place.
[03:18] unconed: (and as i just failed to tell you twice, it also works in safari ;)
[03:18] nerdfunk: oh cool
[03:18] nerdfunk: haha
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[03:19] nerdfunk: kalidescope.. interesting.
[03:20] unconed: hah
[03:20] unconed: now that IS cool
[03:20] unconed: :)
[03:20] nerdfunk: hehe
[03:20] unconed: it works better if everyone controls one point of a polygon
[03:20] nerdfunk: once you get into the dance its cool
[03:20] unconed: like it kind of does when everyone moves at the same time
[03:21] unconed has joined the channel
[03:21] unconed: great little toy
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[03:21] darshanshankar: cool stuff nerdfunk 
[03:21] unconed: nerdfunk: http://acko.net/dev/farbtastic <- plug my thing in :P
[03:22] nerdfunk: lol
[03:22] nerdfunk: i made one too a while back .. http://souseiji.net/RGB
[03:22] nerdfunk: (works with iOS too) 
[03:22] unconed: ah neat
[03:23] nerdfunk: for http://souseiji.net/pixelfinger
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[03:24] mscdex: "plug my thing in" ? that's what she said!
[03:24] mscdex: or he said
[03:24] nerdfunk: jquery fan ? ;)
[03:24] nerdfunk: give me the $ and i'll give you a plugin
[03:25] unconed: i was sitting across this thai girl across the bus... she was really hot and looking straight at me,.. the whole time, I thought "please don't get an erection, please don't get an erection"..... but then she did.
[03:25] nerdfunk: gah
[03:26] nerdfunk: I think i need to broadcast where everyone else is..
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[03:26] nerdfunk: it might make it easier to "join in"
[03:26] unconed: it would be cool if it would dynamically make formations out of people who are close
[03:26] unconed: :)
[03:26] mscdex: unconed: wait, she got an erection?
[03:27] rznt: Hey, is anyone here? I'm having trouble with node child process executing a file read command
[03:27] unconed: mscdef.... :P
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[03:27] unconed: err ex*
[03:27] mscdex: rznt: gist the code!
[03:28] nerdfunk: unconed: that is a cool idea. if it drew spontaneously when people were close..
[03:28] unconed: nerdfunk: there was a js1k demo that sort of did this with random poijnts
[03:28] unconed: points*
[03:28] nerdfunk: hmm
[03:28] nerdfunk: you can see each other / their colors.. then once close it simply filled in the line.
[03:28] unconed: god try to find anything in here: http://js1k.com/2010-first/demos
[03:29] unconed: http://js1k.com/2010-first/demo/114
[03:29] unconed: here we go
[03:29] rznt: http://pastebin.com/SxZA06zS
[03:30] nerdfunk: if distance > threshold, draw line . . . neat.
[03:30] nerdfunk: http://jsdo.it/Evan/apyQ 
[03:31] nerdfunk: similar to this id imagine
[03:31] unconed: yeah totally
[03:32] nerdfunk: cool. i'll get on it. I kind of like the scribbly way too but i'll make a child version ;)
[03:35] uclinux: in about a week, I start work on a pretty major SAP ERP project. Hopefully he will let me write some realtime monitoring tools in node
[03:35] uclinux: then we can have some SAP tools 
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[03:35] uclinux: he = the boss
[03:36] jesusabdullah: SAP?
[03:36] jesusabdullah: Isn't that the Spanish dubbing thing?
[03:36] ryan0x2: lol
[03:36] uclinux: nope
[03:36] kmiyashiro has joined the channel
[03:36] uclinux: ABAP
[03:37] jesusabdullah: http://duckduckgo.com/Second_audio_program this thing is what I was thinking of
[03:37] nerdfunk: in socket io is there an easy way to return the id that the server assigns?
[03:37] uclinux: hahaha ... i wish
[03:38] nerdfunk: ... function (client){ var id = client.id ?
[03:39] nerdfunk: ah.. derp.. client.sessionID
[03:40] uclinux: jesusabdullah: SAP that huge german enterprise company... were rolling over an old system to one of their products
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[03:54] DTrejo: hey everyone!
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[03:54] DTrejo: I want to start some kind of weekly js hack night in the bay, (on a different day than the workup of course)
[03:55] DTrejo: pm me if you have any thoughts on that. I'm thinking i'd aim for east bay since that's where I'll be living
[03:55] DTrejo: SubStack: ^
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[03:56] SubStack: sounds like fun!
[03:56] SubStack: DTrejo: when do you get back down by the bay?
[03:56] DTrejo: I think it might be possible to land some location at UCB, but if there's anything nearer to bart that might be a better option
[03:57] DTrejo: SubStack: I get back the night of the 17th, so the 18th pretty much
[03:57] DTrejo: of this month
[03:57] DTrejo: and I start work on the 23rd, in sf
[03:57] SubStack: I have a big empty upstairs
[03:57] SubStack: right near macarthur bart
[03:58] SubStack: not much furnature though
[03:58] SubStack: *furniture
[03:58] DTrejo: I've been doing hack fridays at my school and have gone well
[03:58] DTrejo: but I'd like them not to be on friday during the summer :)
[03:58] DTrejo: maybe wednesday or something
[03:58] devrim has joined the channel
[03:58] SubStack: I'm down for any day except monday
[03:59] DTrejo: as for location, that could be good, need to see what's going on with the UCB location / attracting tons of students in addition to older people
[04:00] DTrejo: SubStack: do you go to the workup?
[04:00] devrim has joined the channel
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[04:01] KellyM: what's the workup?
[04:02] mike5w3c has joined the channel
[04:02] DTrejo: thursday evenings ryah chills and works on node and other people hang out with him, is my impression
[04:03] DTrejo: KellyM: http://nodeworkup06.eventbrite.com/
[04:04] beawesomeinstead has joined the channel
[04:04] SubStack: DTrejo: workup?
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[04:04] DTrejo: SubStack: http://nodeworkup06.eventbrite.com/
[04:04] SubStack: oh haven't been to one of those yet
[04:05] DTrejo: !
[04:05] DTrejo: I'm surprised
[04:05] sridatta has joined the channel
[04:05] DTrejo: although you are in the east bay, so understandable
[04:06] dmojoryder has joined the channel
[04:07] DTrejo: so happy about this commute http://www.google.com/maps?q=433+California+Street,+Suite+900+San+Francisco,+CA+94104
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[04:09] darshanshankar: DTrejo: is that the cloudera office?
[04:10] SubStack: DTrejo: just down the street from joyent, awesome
[04:10] DTrejo: darshanshankar: yep, their new one :) 
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[04:10] aaronblohowiak: grrrr, izs is never around
[04:10] aaronblohowiak: s/never around/never around when i am
[04:10] aaronblohowiak: =)
[04:11] SubStack: my waking hours wrap around every few weeks so I get to see everybody
[04:11] DTrejo: heh
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[04:14] xeodox: I have 2 servers that run node.js.  Both are running Express and is just basic website.  How can Server-A call a function on Server-B?
[04:15] DTrejo: gnight everyone! SubStack, will let you know what's going on at the start of next week. it'd be nice to make this a regular event, in addition to the non-coding meetups that happen 9 times a week
[04:15] SubStack: groovy!
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[04:19] abraxas: Any flow-js users around?
[04:19] abraxas: I'm wondering if there's any way to abort execution of a flow, without throwing an exception.
[04:19] eyez: uh
[04:19] eyez: hah
[04:19] eyez: the author's one of my closest friends, i'll relay your message
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[04:19] abraxas: Thanks :)
[04:20] abraxas: I'm just checking it out for the first time....
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[04:21] eyez: i got a "heh, me too. i can't actually remember"
[04:21] eyez: i dont think he's using flow himself anymore
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[04:21] eyez: but he asks what you want to have happen
[04:22] abraxas: I just want to abort the flow.
[04:23] abraxas: Exceptions are a bit aggressive, or I'd have to try/catch my flow every time... Not a huge problem, but I'd like to know if there are alternatives.
[04:23] abraxas: If he doesn't use flow anymore, may I ask why?
[04:23] eyez: "he can always just keep track of his first callback and then call that. there's no reason that you must continue execution of the flow"
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[04:24] eyez: moved on to streamline
[04:25] levi501d has joined the channel
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[04:26] eyez: and the other day, he called asyncjs is more or less a kitchen sink version of what flow does
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[04:27] abraxas: Okay, I'm looking into it, thanks.
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[04:27] eyez: but he heavily recommends streamline as an alternative to async
[04:28] abraxas: Thanks
[04:28] eyez: er to flow i mean
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[04:29] eyez: he says if you have any questions he'll totally answer emails, just the email on his github
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[04:30] towski: anyone know how to run the jsdom tests
[04:31] SubStack: abraxas: I wrote one called seq with chainable error handling
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[04:31] SubStack: so you can .catch() exceptions
[04:31] eyez: streamline also just magically makes try/catch work
[04:32] abraxas: eyez: thanks! mrjjwright or willconant?
[04:32] SubStack: .catch() != try/catch
[04:32] eyez: abraxas: willconant
[04:32] abraxas: SubStack: I'll have a look, thanks
[04:32] SubStack: doesn't streamline do source transformation?
[04:32] eyez: yeah i don't like it as a catch-all solution, but its way nice for simple flows
[04:33] SubStack: that makes me uneasy
[04:33] eyez: it basically rewrites non-async style code into async-style
[04:33] eyez: from what i've seen its solid
[04:34] SubStack: and then it monkey punches require() it seems, also makes me uneasy
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[04:35] eyez: yeah i haven't used it for anything serious, but he's been using it in production for a while
[04:36] eyez: my buddy who wrote flow and then switched to it i mean
[04:36] abraxas: I'm not a big fan of source transformation....
[04:36] tedsuo has joined the channel
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[04:38] eyez: yeah, it makes me feel a bit unsafe even though it makes some of the more monstrous nested calls a lot more bearable, but
[04:40] eyez: i've been playing more with asyncjs lately, i feel like i get more control and still save on the headaches that way without jumping through any magic hoops
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[04:47] blueadept: anyone know why this code broke with the latest code revision? http://pastie.org/private/1jba0gg0d9d3m6ylcyrihq
[04:47] blueadept: how have the static methods changed?
[04:47] leek has joined the channel
[04:48] ChrisPartridge: blueadept: What version was that written on?
[04:49] blueadept: must have been node 4.6
[04:49] blueadept: with mongoose, using express
[04:50] blueadept: must have not been far behind, this worked about 6 weeks ago, only recently when i deicded to jump ahead did it break
[04:50] blueadept: i guess its mongoose that changed
[04:52] aconbere: anyone using node-fake?
[04:53] abraxas: eyez: async looks nice
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[04:56] pcapestany: hallo
[04:56] tonymilne: blueadept: i apply my static methods on my schema like this: 
[04:56] tonymilne: schema.static({
[04:56] tonymilne:   example: function() { },
[04:56] tonymilne: });
[04:57] tonymilne: and they work ok.
[04:57] tonymilne: (So, i create my schema first, describing the collection, then add statics / methods to it, then mongoose.model('example', schema) to create it)
[04:58] blueadept: right, yeah i'm doing the same thing
[04:58] tonymilne: yours might be slightly different, because you are adding to User
[04:58] jmoyers has joined the channel
[04:59] tonymilne: vs, im adding to the schema before User is created. (i think)
[04:59] blueadept: oh i see
[04:59] blueadept: let me try that
[05:00] tonymilne: So if you're inline object your schema, e.g. mongoose.model('User', { ... }) 
[05:00] tonymilne: Try splitting that out to a variable schema first.
[05:00] blueadept: yeah it worked now
[05:00] blueadept: the order was messing it up
[05:00] tonymilne: Awesome.
[05:00] SubStack: gah npm why you gotta recompile my devDependencies like that
[05:00] blueadept: thanks!
[05:01] SubStack: oh it's because I don't have a global expresso >_<
[05:01] SubStack: annoying
[05:01] SubStack: but correct
[05:02] ryah: SubStack: hm
[05:02] deedubs: mongoose question. Is it possible to $inc a field on an embedded document? I can't seem to get it to...
[05:02] ryah: SubStack: put all your node projects in a folder: $HOME/node-projects
[05:03] ryah: then make $HOME/node-projects && npm install expresso
[05:03] ryah: er
[05:03] ryah: cd 
[05:03] ryah: cd $HOME/node-projects && npm install expresso
[05:03] ryah: put all your projects in that folder
[05:03] ryah: and it should work
[05:03] ryah: you know - the require() keeps walking up
[05:04] SubStack: oh neat!
[05:05] sivy has joined the channel
[05:06] SubStack: all my node stuff is in ~/projects so that works well
[05:07] hcvst has joined the channel
[05:08] SubStack: ryah: does that work in v0.5.0-pre?
[05:08] SubStack: cannot find module 'expresso'
[05:10] context: is it linked to the current project
[05:10] context: ir ~/.node_modules
[05:10] pcapestany: ryan: just wanted to say, that tweet you had bout Salem song/vid == badass. so good. never heard of em till now
[05:14] alek_br_ has joined the channel
[05:14] tlrobinson: does node support passing 0 to listen to get a random free high port? if so how do you find out what the port is?
[05:14] tlrobinson: 3
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[05:21] SubStack: oh
[05:21] SubStack: expresso doesn't have a main
[05:22] SubStack: this confuses npm install . it seems
[05:22] SubStack: silly thing
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[05:30] aaronblohowiak: hmm. node-irc is being weird!
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[05:35] quackslike: anyone know where i can find something simple to do printf type output formatting - i want to align my output.
[05:36] ChrisPartridge: quackslike: there is a sprintf package in npm
[05:36] quackslike: ChrisPartridge: cheers
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[05:39] quackslike: i'd like to see npm display date last modified by author and github repo.. does npm do that if the authors provide that info?
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[05:40] aaronblohowiak: quackslike: search.npmjs.org does
[05:41] vicapow: hello everyone. i was wondering if I could get some feed back on my node js site. its at http://clickb.in
[05:41] vicapow: what do you think?
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[05:42] quackslike: aaronblohowiak: thanks.
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[05:49] xeodox: Usually how much ram does Node.js take up?
[05:51] SubStack: xeodox: that is highly dependent on what you're doing, just like any other language
[05:51] SubStack: language/framework/interpreter
[05:51] xeodox: any ballpark?
[05:52] xeodox: for just a basic website
[05:52] xeodox: like a website for a restaurant
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[06:07] mscdex: any windows programmers alive here? :-D
[06:07] indutny has joined the channel
[06:08] jesusabdullah: Nope!
[06:08] jesusabdullah: Not me, anyway
[06:08] jesusabdullah: I'm pretty lost in windows
[06:08] jesusabdullah: I have no idea how to program in windows
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[06:08] tonymilne: xeodox: are you trying to decide on a vps size?
[06:08] xeodox: EC2, yes 
[06:08] tonymilne: (hmm, not experienced with ec2, but pretty minimal should be fine from my experience)
[06:09] xeodox: I see
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[06:10] sorens3n: i program on windows 
[06:10] sorens3n: dont tell anyone...
[06:11] ChrisPartridge: visual studio for the win
[06:11] sorens3n: :D
[06:11] ChrisPartridge: 
ACTION coughs

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[06:12] sorens3n: ah dam, just found express-uglify, doesnt look like its been published to npm yet though
[06:13] context: anyone here use jquery mobile? having an issue adding dynamic elements to the dom
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[06:16] context: nm got that working
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[06:18] quackslike: xeodox: how big is the restaurant?
[06:19] xeodox: 3 employees
[06:19] quackslike: oh.. that shouldn't use much ram then ;)
[06:19] xeodox: hehe
[06:19] quackslike: :D
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[06:23] zackattack: hi
[06:23] mscdex: well, i'm trying convert a FILETIME struct to a unix timestamp in js
[06:23] zackattack: I can't find "forever" on my system
[06:24] zackattack: It's not in my PATH
[06:24] mscdex: and i can't get it right for the life of me
[06:24] zackattack: and it's not in /usr/local/bin/
[06:24] zackattack: npm list shows ├─┬ forever@0.5.1 
[06:24] zackattack: -bash: forever: command not found
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[06:27] abraxas: eyez: just refactored a piece of code by using asyncjs, which basically reduced code size in half.
[06:27] abraxas: eyez: i'm liking this :)
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[06:28] zackattack: ryah: ping
[06:28] indutny has joined the channel
[06:28] ryah:  yo
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[06:29] ryah: build system pain
[06:29] ryah: is slowly killing me
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[06:32] xsyn: morning sinners
[06:32] SubStack: moanin'
[06:34] mscdex: the whistles go woooo
[06:34] nexxy: xsyn, not going to greet the rest of us?
[06:34] quackslike: zackattack: it will prob be in the node_modules dir
[06:35] McMAGIC--Copy has joined the channel
[06:35] xsyn: nexxy: :)
[06:35] zackattack: quackslike: where is that?
[06:35] nexxy: has anyone seen the rant on basho's blog?
[06:36] nexxy: I was hoping to start a riak vs mongo flame war
[06:36] quackslike: zackattack: sorry, igore that comment, i was getting confused
[06:36] asabil has joined the channel
[06:36] quackslike: zackattack: hang on a tick
[06:36] nexxy: (and by flame war I mean civil discussion)
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[06:38] quackslike: zackattack: i think it depends how you install node
[06:38] zackattack: okay
[06:38] quackslike: i instaalled node in ~/local
[06:38] quackslike: and when i installed npm it put node_modules in ~/
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[06:40] quackslike: zackattack: i only have one machine with npm 1.* on it so, its a bit new to me.
[06:43] zackattack: huh
[06:44] zackattack: /usr/local/bin is what `which node` tells me
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[06:45] zackattack: ryah:  any clue why my "forever" installation might be missing, even though npm says it's installed?
[06:45] kawaz_air has joined the channel
[06:46] ryah: zackattack: maybe its not in your PATH
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[06:47] zackattack: where might it be hiding?
[06:47] zackattack: (in what directory?)
[06:48] leek: uninstall it and re-install with -g
[06:48] quackslike: find / -name forever
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[06:48] zackattack: leek:  what does -g do?
[06:49] leek: zackattack: http://blog.nodejs.org/2011/05/01/npm-1-0-released/
[06:50] nexxy: 
ACTION spins leek, "aa tsi tsup ari dik ari dull an dik ari dill an dits tan dool"

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[06:50] zackattack: oh, weird.
[06:50] leek: nexxy: ;)
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[06:50] leek: zackattack: imo - npm's that have binaries like forever should install with -g by default but oh well
[06:51] Marak: yes
[06:51] Marak: you need to npm install foo -g for CLI tools
[06:51] `3rdEden: I hereby request a new field in the package.json, either location or installation, `global` or locaol
[06:51] leek: ^^
[06:51] nexxy: I learned that the hard way with node-inspector
[06:51] Marak: zackattack: you have issue with forever?
[06:51] zackattack: it was hiding, out of my path..
[06:51] leek: it was kind of a silent change from 0.3->1.0
[06:51] Marak: zackattack: yeah man, -g fuuuuu
[06:51] `3rdEden: npm local installations is a PAIN IN THE ASS for command line tools
[06:51] leek: only realized if after reading the blog
[06:52] leek: it*
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[06:52] Marak: zackattack: leek open an issue with npm, ask isaacs to give us an option to force a global install from the npm package
[06:52] context: Faye doesnt appear to work on my phone :(
[06:52] `3rdEden: It completely killed out server deployment by removing forever globally >_<
[06:52] context: time to try ipad
[06:52] Marak: i asked him for it at nodeconf, he was iffy
[06:52] fangel has joined the channel
[06:52] Marak: give him a reason
[06:52] Marak: please
[06:52] nexxy: idk about force
[06:52] nexxy: maybe default? ;3
[06:52] `3rdEden: commandline toooolls
[06:52] Marak: so ill update the package.json in forever to force a global install
[06:52] nexxy: a simple [Y/n] upon installation?
[06:53] Marak: he said he'd add a warning
[06:53] `3rdEden: or just global by default and -L for local ;D?
[06:53] leek: problem is - i *rarely* want a local install of an npm
[06:53] tonymilne: I dunno about all this, I reckon local installs are actually good!
[06:53] nexxy: local should be default.
[06:53] nexxy: end of discussion!
[06:54] `3rdEden: fuuu :3
[06:54] tonymilne: I maintain several projects, and I like that some are able to continue using older versions, until i upgrade them.
[06:54] xsyn: if you run npm with the -g flag
[06:54] xsyn: do you need to sudo
[06:54] SamuraiJack has joined the channel
[06:54] nexxy: an option for CLI type packages to default (with a warning) to -g would be great though
[06:55] Marak: nexxy: yeah, exactly
[06:55] mikey_p: please
[06:55] nexxy: sir
[06:55] nexxy: may I have some moar?
[06:55] xsyn: Moar: [noun] Small goat
[06:55] tonymilne: moar!?
[06:56] nexxy: moar waffles pl0x?
[06:56] brownies has joined the channel
[06:56] mikey_p: i need to get a way for our IRC bot to play audio
[06:56] davidsklar has joined the channel
[06:56] nexxy: 
SOUND /aux/aux.wav

[06:57] nexxy: did it work?!
[06:57] `3rdEden: naow, i blocked it ;
[06:57] `3rdEden: ;D
[06:57] nexxy: I miss those days
[06:58] SubStack: sound?
[06:58] nexxy: MSChat
[06:58] nexxy: supported playing sounds via CTCP
[06:58] mikey_p: 
ACTION shamefully admits our bot runs PHP

[06:59] xsyn: hmm
[06:59] xsyn: Failed at the mongodb@0.9.4-3 install script.
[06:59] nexxy: but win98 had a famous flaw in that it would BSOD when you tried to access system devices
[06:59] Squeese has joined the channel
[06:59] nexxy: so playing a sound like /aux/aux.wave or /lpt1/lpt1.wav
[06:59] xeodox: In Node.js, how do I get the "IP" of the current machine?
[07:00] nexxy: xeodox, you should respect intellectual property.
[07:00] JackeyChan has joined the channel
[07:00] nexxy: leave it alone!
[07:00] xeodox: I want to steal the IP, that's all.
[07:00] xeodox: just the numbers
[07:01] konobi: os
[07:01] xeodox: konobi: os.hostname() gets me the hostname
[07:01] xeodox: but I want the IP
[07:01] konobi: interfaces
[07:01] xeodox: huh?
[07:01] ivanfi has joined the channel
[07:02] konobi: oh... it's not in the docs
[07:02] xeodox: oh... 
[07:02] xeodox: hehe
[07:03] konobi: os.getNetworkInterfaces
[07:04] xeodox: gee, thanks!
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[07:05] JackeyChan: who knows the jade syntax ? I want to post array to tpl and render each item.
[07:06] JackeyChan: res.render('template', {users: array('id1', 'id2', 'id3')});
[07:06] ChrisPartridge: users: []
[07:07] JackeyChan: sorry. 
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[07:08] nexxy: yeah! how dare you, learning syntax and asking questions!
[07:08] JackeyChan: https://github.com/visionmedia/jade. I did not read syntax
[07:08] tonymilne: nexxy: Yeah... I've come to expect those sort of crazy stunts from jackey chan!
[07:08] hcvst has joined the channel
[07:09] Skola: I'm trying to get req.body data from a form POST (using express), but it keeps returning undefined. In my form I use <form method='post' action='/test'>. In my routes I use app.post('/test', function (req, res) { console.log(req.body.stuff) }).
[07:09] eee_mk_ has joined the channel
[07:09] tonymilne: Skola: do you have     app.use(express.bodyParser());
[07:09] Skola: yes
[07:10] saschagehlich: anyone here using cluster?
[07:10] tonymilne: Is it above / below your route stuff?
[07:10] tonymilne: Do you post any variables?
[07:10] Skola: above
[07:11] Skola: though in app.configure I have app.use(app.router) above app.use(express.bodyParser())
[07:11] tonymilne: thats the problem
[07:11] tonymilne: swap those lines.
[07:11] Skola: alright will check hold on
[07:11] tonymilne: saschagehlich: I used cluster, whats up?
[07:12] Skola: you are my hero
[07:12] saschagehlich: tonymilne: do I have to install "log"? o_O usually tj puts dependencies as submodules but here he failed
[07:12] tonymilne: ;) Cool mate.
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[07:12] Skola: note to self: order matters
[07:13] tonymilne: This is what I do for my cluster.
[07:13] tonymilne: http://pastie.org/1892056
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[07:14] JackeyChan: hi, again. can I post my code for explain something ?
[07:14] tonymilne: I just checked npm install cluster,
[07:14] tonymilne: and it also installed log@1.1.1
[07:14] nexxy: wtf pastie says you're a time traveler, tonymilne 
[07:14] tonymilne: I know right, Aussies are super bad ass like that!
[07:14] nexxy: Pasted
[07:14] nexxy: 1 minute from now
[07:15] saschagehlich: tonymilne: I don't install stuff via npm for production, always putting them in as submodules
[07:15] nexxy: oh wait
[07:15] nexxy: that makes me the time traveler!
[07:15] saschagehlich: maybe I should start using npm more...
[07:15] nexxy: saschagehlich, yus, you should
[07:15] nexxy: does npm install and compile node.js yet?
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[07:16] JackeyChan: I post it :
[07:16] JackeyChan: res.render('index', {
[07:16] JackeyChan: 				  title: 'taxonomy',
[07:16] JackeyChan: 				  taxonomy: results
[07:16] JackeyChan: 	      });
[07:16] JackeyChan: and render:
[07:16] JackeyChan: - for (var vocabulary in #{taxonomy})
[07:16] JackeyChan:     li vocabulary[name]
[07:16] JackeyChan: I don't know what's the wrong with there code, can some guys help me ???
[07:16] saschagehlich: okay, so is there a good way to handle dependencies in production? like creating a package.json, putting dependencies into it and install them via npm?
[07:17] tonymilne: saschagehlich: I've written something that does that using npm.
[07:17] tonymilne: I'm working to get it released.
[07:17] tonymilne: i can postie it too, probs.
[07:17] nexxy: isn't that the point of package.json? or am I missing something
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[07:17] tonymilne: Well, i just have a project, which has 10 dependencies.
[07:18] tonymilne: When it starts up, it checks its got them all (and the right version)
[07:18] saschagehlich: tonymilne: me too... shouldn't npm link install the dependencies?
[07:18] tonymilne: so, when team mates check out my code.
[07:18] emattias has joined the channel
[07:18] nexxy: oh, gotcha
[07:18] tonymilne: they get a working copy, despite version bumps and new dependencies being installed.
[07:18] tonymilne: it's good because version control knows exactly when npm versions of modules were updated.
[07:18] nexxy: isn't it possible to create private npm repos?
[07:19] nexxy: you could just package your project 
[07:19] tonymilne: yeah, i could, but im noob :(
[07:19] nexxy: and have them use npm
[07:19] tonymilne: could anyone install my project then?
[07:19] nexxy: anyone that has access to your private repo
[07:19] nexxy: I don't *know* if npm has that capability yet
[07:19] tonymilne: oh, ya good point.
[07:19] nexxy: but I thought I overheard it mentioned @ nodeconf
[07:20] SubStack: some people have private npm repos already but I have no idea how to set one of those up
[07:20] SubStack: some couch magic probably
[07:20] levi501d has joined the channel
[07:20] nexxy: 
ACTION thrusts her arm between the cushions...

[07:20] SubStack: if that were baked into npm it would kick the shit out of pretty much every package manager ever
[07:20] nexxy: 
ACTION pulls out $1.37

[07:20] nexxy: magic!
[07:21] nexxy: you can't explain that.
[07:21] saschagehlich: nexxy: congratulations!
[07:21] saschagehlich: ;)
[07:21] SubStack: npm --server
[07:21] SubStack: want
[07:21] SubStack: or just `npm server` probably
[07:22] nexxy: npm --horde-my-packages-from-the-world
[07:22] tlrobinson: for the http server, what happens if a request comes in before you have any "request" event listeners?
[07:22] ryah: ++
[07:22] SubStack: I need to learn more about couchapps
[07:22] nexxy: SubStack, talk to max ogden
[07:22] ryah: tlrobinson: it gets rejected
[07:22] ryah: i think
[07:22] mjr_: I haven't tried this, but I assume what you do is replicate the couchdb to some local couchdb
[07:22] nexxy: his couch magic is only rivaled by his magical beard
[07:23] quackslike: JackeyChan: does results contain what you think?
[07:23] mjr_: CouchDb replication is one of the best things about CouchDB.
[07:23] tlrobinson: ryah: actually it seems like it just hangs
[07:23] micheil has joined the channel
[07:23] JackeyChan: quackslike: I am checking.
[07:23] ryah: tlrobinson: yeah, i was just looking at the code - seems so
[07:23] quackslike: tonymilne: whereabouts?
[07:24] tonymilne: quackslike: Melborune.
[07:24] quackslike: i'm in madelaide
[07:24] tlrobinson: ryah: how about if you call listen and .on("request"...) in the same tick, or in the listen callback?
[07:24] tonymilne: You'd think we could spell where we live, after living there long enough!
[07:25] ryah: tlrobinson: you'll catch all the reqs
[07:25] quackslike: i spelt it like that on purpose..
[07:25] tlrobinson: k thanks
[07:25] nexxy: melborune sounds like the mythical fantasy version of melbourne
[07:25] jesusabdullah: lol
[07:25] quackslike: it was either that or sadelaide
[07:25] nexxy: like there should be dwarves and faeries there
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[07:25] saschagehlich: <3 npm
[07:25] saschagehlich: goodbye submodules.
[07:25] quackslike: nexxy: there are.
[07:25] nexxy: quackslike, srs?!
[07:26] quackslike: well, most of the fairies live in sydney..
[07:26] nexxy: 
ACTION otw to sydney

[07:26] nexxy: love me some faerie
[07:26] troessner has joined the channel
[07:26] quackslike: nexxy: where you?
[07:26] djcoin has joined the channel
[07:26] nexxy: quackslike, floating between realities
[07:27] quackslike: heh
[07:27] quackslike: sounds ok..
[07:27] nexxy: but most people call it Portland, OR
[07:27] mjr_: Watching Portlandia makes me think about actually moving to Portland.
[07:27] nexxy: LOL
[07:27] nexxy: portlandia is hauntingly accurate
[07:27] mjr_: I assume that's exactly what it's like.
[07:27] nexxy: yes.
[07:28] tonymilne: JackeyChan: Try something like this:
[07:28] tonymilne: 	- each vocabulary in taxonomy
[07:28] tonymilne: 		li #{vocabulary.name}
[07:28] quackslike: *off to google maps
[07:29] mscdex: muahaha success! FILETIME structure converted to unix timestamp in js!
[07:29] nexxy: 
ACTION champagne popper

[07:29] mscdex: ok, that's probably a bit much, but still...
[07:30] nexxy: wow okay
[07:30] mscdex: :-D
[07:30] tonymilne: JackeyChan: ping
[07:30] nexxy: 
ACTION glances at mscdex and raises an eyebrow

[07:30] nexxy: better?
[07:30] saschagehlich: is there a way to avoid the execution of scripts/clean-old.sh in npm or automatically answer with "yes" to the question whether npm should delete all old symlinks etc?
[07:30] mjr_: Portlandia scene vs. Google Street View:  https://skitch.com/mranney/r67ia/portlandia.s01e05.blunderbuss.hdtv.xvid-fqm.avi
[07:30] nexxy: oh my god is that a pirated link?!
[07:30] nexxy: 
ACTION shields eyes

[07:31] mscdex: :O
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[07:32] mjr_: Don't worry, I just drew all of that in Google Sketchup.
[07:32] tlrobinson: is there a way to find out what fds or whatever are cause node to not exit?
[07:32] nexxy: mjr_, wtf am I looking at? lol
[07:32] saschagehlich: tlrobinson: lsof -p PROCESS_ID
[07:32] mscdex: i need a fun name for my office file reader module thing
[07:32] mjr_: tlrobinson: somebody needs to enumerate the stuff in libev, and I guess it's hard?
[07:32] saschagehlich: shows you the open files - maybe you can find out which one could stay open and stop node from exitting
[07:32] nexxy: mscdex, Farnsworth
[07:33] k1ttty has joined the channel
[07:33] mscdex: i don't see the connection :S
[07:33] eikaas: ^ +1
[07:33] nexxy: mscdex, nevermind then.
[07:33] mjr_: nexxy: that's street view and the scene from the show where they go to that exact place.
[07:33] nexxy: ohh
[07:33] nexxy: lol
[07:33] nexxy: I've had to walk from that corner once ;<
[07:33] mscdex: how about "awfis"
[07:34] nexxy: when the bus stopped and was liek "ok everybody get out!"
[07:34] quackslike: mscdex: pretty good
[07:34] mscdex: hah
[07:34] mjr_: tlrobinson: it would be super useful to have that though, it's a very regular request people have.  Maybe you could write it.
[07:35] mscdex: pull request!
[07:35] mscdex: do it
[07:35] tlrobinson: mjr_: ok
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[07:36] tlrobinson: mjr_ ryah where would i start looking to do such a thing?
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[07:36] nexxy: first you must look into your soul...
[07:37] mjr_: This has been discussed on the list a few times, and I forget exactly why it's hard.  I seem to recall that the Marco or somebody did a simple patch to libev to support this.
[07:37] mjr_: But the libev guy doesn't like the patch, so node would have to float it, and that sucks.
[07:37] ryah: tlrobinson: https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/337c48db5fe06ddaf626b03b7db6c6f48c5d3b62/deps/libev/ev.h#L595-598
[07:37] mjr_: Hey, that looks pretty good.
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[07:44] JackeyChan: - each vocabulary in taxonomy' 7. ' li #{vocabulary.name}' expected "indent", but got "newline". get error:
[07:44] mattpat: Anyone happen to know of the mechanism behind setTimeout, and/or the performance ramifications of scheduling a LOT of timeouts?
[07:44] saschagehlich: eeeehm
[07:44] JackeyChan: tonymilne: sorry
[07:44] saschagehlich: does npm install modules into the node_modules directory? o_O
[07:45] mattpat: saschagehlich: At least of 1.0 it does
[07:45] saschagehlich: mattpat: bot not system-wide so it installs it into a subdirectory?
[07:45] mattpat: Correct, use -g to install system-wide
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[07:45] leek: heh
[07:45] saschagehlich: aaah okay, nice to know
[07:46] saschagehlich: thanks mattpat
[07:46] mattpat: No problem :)
[07:46] JackeyChan: >	tonymilne: So thanks!!
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[07:48] mjr_: mattpat: if you set a lot of timeouts for the same amount, this is pretty efficient.
[07:49] mattpat: mjr_: Makes sense, but let's say they're all for different amounts. For the sake of argument, let's say I have 5,000 timeouts set, only about a fifth of which end up on duplicated dates.
[07:49] mattpat: It's more intellectual curiosity than "I think I should write a program that does this" :P
[07:49] JackeyChan: hi, I want to add class with var, such as li.item-#{id}. but it can not work. somebody know that ?
[07:50] mjr_: mattpat: I'm not sure at which point it starts to break down.  There is an optimization for timers of the same value though.
[07:52] xeodox: How do I send optional arguments (of a function) in node.js?
[07:53] jesusabdullah: xeodox: look at the Arguments object
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[07:53] xeodox: It gives syntaxErrors. function myfunc(a, b, c=3){
[07:53] mattpat: mjr_: Good to know, I suppose I'll just have to try and find out >:-D
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[07:53] aaronblohowiak: hello, people!
[07:54] jesusabdullah: v8> function foo () { console.log(Arguments); } foo('bar', 'baz')
[07:54] Squeese has joined the channel
[07:54] v8bot: jesusabdullah: ReferenceError: Arguments is not defined
[07:54] jesusabdullah: v8> function foo () { console.log(arguments); } foo('bar', 'baz')
[07:54] v8bot: jesusabdullah: {0:"bar",1:"baz"}
[07:54] jesusabdullah: derp
[07:54] quackslike: xeodox: you just leave them out
[07:54] jesusabdullah: xeodox: like that^^
[07:54] jesusabdullah: Yeah, or that
[07:54] xeodox: dont get it
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[07:55] jesusabdullah: v8> function foo (bar, baz) { console.log(bar, baz); } foo('bar')
[07:55] v8bot: jesusabdullah: "bar"
[07:55] jesusabdullah: See? just don't pass the second arg
[07:55] xeodox: oh I see
[07:55] jesusabdullah: xeodox: there's no x=3 syntax in javascript. Closest you can get is an optional "options" object
[07:55] jesusabdullah: like
[07:56] xeodox: I want to default the optional argument..
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[07:56] jesusabdullah: xeodox: var foo = bar | 3
[07:56] jesusabdullah: or something like this
[07:57] aaronblohowiak: hey
[07:57] aaronblohowiak: somebody publish an npm package!
[07:57] jesusabdullah: NO
[07:57] aaronblohowiak: 
ACTION cries

[07:57] tlrobinson: ryah: seems like it's disabled for some reason... # define EV_WALK_ENABLE 0 /* not yet */
[07:57] xeodox: jesusabdullah: , quackslike  thanks it works
[07:57] tlrobinson: ryah: i enabled it but it seems to be hanging for some reason
[07:59] jesusabdullah: xeodox: awesome
[08:00] JackeyChan: a(href="terms/"#{vocabulary.vid}") something wrong ?
[08:00] JackeyChan: a(href="terms/#{vocabulary.vid}") #{vocabulary.name}
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[08:04] JackeyChan: when the vocabulary.vid is 1, i want to output a(href="terms/1") #{vocabulary.name}, how to write the code ? I really don't know...
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[08:08] mawkor2: hey anyone here using forever?
[08:09] mattpat: mawkor2: Indeed, but not too heavily
[08:09] SubStack: likewise
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[08:10] mawkor2: did you have any issues running it from the command line? I had to symlink...
[08:10] mawkor2: or run from the directory it's in..
[08:10] SubStack: npm install -g forever
[08:10] mawkor2: or put it in the PATH
[08:10] mawkor2: -g?
[08:10] SubStack: yeah bins are a little screwy now
[08:10] mawkor2: oh got ya...
[08:10] SubStack: mawkor2: the latest npm does local installs by default
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[08:10] mawkor2: whart does -g do?
[08:11] SubStack: does a global install
[08:11] mawkor2: ad symlink to /node_modules/packagename/node_modules/packagename?
[08:11] mawkor2: my guess...
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[08:14] mawkor2: oh man that makes me realize package management must be a nightmare...
[08:16] JackeyChan: how to add scripts with jade template engin? I do it with : script(type="text/javascript" src="/javascripts/taxonomy.js") but can not work
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[08:21] xsyn: JackeyChan: That's right
[08:21] npmlive: Hello there, people.
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[08:22] xsyn: JackeyChan: have you set your public dir?
[08:22] crabs: hi, i'm running a node tcp server. now when i connect through the browser via socket.io the connection gets disconnected again every time ( Firebug: GET http://127.0.0.1:8080/socket.io/xhr-multipart  Aborted). in my nodejs console i get a new connect event everytime
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[08:23] `3rdEden: crabs: socket.io doesn't work tcp servers you need a http/s server
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[08:23] crabs: `3rdEden: ahh ok. what socket connection can i use with the tcp server?
[08:24] ewdafa has joined the channel
[08:24] tjgillies: dnode
[08:24] crabs: because i'm forced to use a tcp server, wanting to establish a connection to flash, and a browser
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[08:25] tjgillies: http://substack.net/posts/85e1bd/DNode-Asynchronous-Remote-Method-Invocation-for-Node-js-and-the-Browser
[08:25] xsyn: What's the easiest way to downgrade my node isntallation?
[08:25] wao: through nave?
[08:25] xsyn: will take a look
[08:25] xsyn: thanks
[08:25] wao: nave usemain desired version
[08:26] wao: like nave usemain 0.4.0 and so
[08:26] xsyn: ta
[08:26] xsyn: perfect
[08:26] xsyn: thank you
[08:27] SubStack: that blog post is a bit muddled, you're probably better off going through the readme instead
[08:27] tjgillies: SubStack: what would you know about dnode? ;)
[08:27] SubStack: or the pubsub article
[08:27] SubStack: I know right?
[08:28] SubStack: who was that directed at anyhow?
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[08:28] tjgillies: crabs
[08:28] tjgillies: im assuming thats something like what he/she wanted
[08:28] crabs: you mean dnode?
[08:28] tjgillies: yes
[08:29] crabs: ok i'll have look, thanks
[08:29] aaronblohowiak: night!
[08:29] tjgillies: i need to highlight peoples nicks more
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[08:30] tjgillies: objective J is such a weird abstraction
[08:30] tjgillies: ive been writing it the last couple days, i love it and hate it at the same time
[08:30] SubStack: crabs: you can .listen(5000).listen(webserver) to listen on port 5000 and to serve up socket.io requests to the browser using the same interface if that's what you want
[08:30] SubStack: with dnode
[08:31] SubStack: this is probably a better article to get the hang of that approach: http://substack.net/posts/9bac3e/Roll-your-own-PubSub-with-DNode
[08:31] SubStack: or the readme has an example too
[08:31] crabs: thanks
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[08:31] tjgillies: onething i like about dnode over now is is tcp-tcp
[08:31] tjgillies: s,is is,is
[08:32] ChrisPartridge: SubStack: awesome new dnode gfx!!
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[08:34] npmlive: Hello there, people.
[08:35] npmlive: new release: uuid-pure: 1.0.10 Random ID generator.  NOT RFC COMPLIANT!! (see: node-uuid)
[08:35] npmlive: new release: uuid-pure: 1.0.10 Random ID generator.  NOT RFC COMPLIANT!! (see: node-uuid)
[08:35] ChrisPartridge: 
ACTION can smell a new bot

[08:35] aaronblohowiak: ChrisPartridge: it will only talk when there is an npm release
[08:36] aaronblohowiak: ChrisPartridge: is that too much chatter?
[08:36] jesusabdullah: It's the new bot smell!
[08:36] ChrisPartridge: I wouldn't think so
[08:36] jesusabdullah: I personally like bots when they do handy things
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[08:36] jesusabdullah: or even cute things
[08:36] ChrisPartridge: Yeah, aslong as it isn't spamming the weather every 5 minutes :)
[08:36] aaronblohowiak: jesusabdullah: you will be able to subscribe to package updates via email through the irc bot as well, sometime next week =)
[08:37] chapel:  Weather for Albany, NY · 49°F (9°C) · Humidity: 86% · Clear · Wind: North at 0 mph · Last Updated on May 12, 3:51 AM EDT
[08:37] chapel:  Weather for Seattle, WA · 43°F (6°C) · Humidity: 93% · Clear · Wind: SSE at 9 mph · Last Updated on May 12, 12:53 AM PDT
[08:37] aaronblohowiak: chapel: :P
[08:37] ChrisPartridge: aaronblohowiak: That sounds good
[08:37] chapel:  Weather for San Francisco, Argentina · 66°F (19°C) · Humidity: 90% · Mist · Wind: South at 5 mph · Last Updated on May 12, 3:00 AM ART
[08:37] chapel:  Weather for Paris, AR · 68°F (20°C) · Humidity: 76% · Partly Cloudy · Wind: North at 0 mph · Last Updated on May 12, 2:53 AM CDT
[08:37] chapel: :P
[08:38] SubStack: ChrisPartridge: I drew it a few weeks ago but forgot about it until now
[08:38] chapel: aaronblohowiak: maybe an automated newsletter?
[08:38] aaronblohowiak: chapel: you want a digest?
[08:38] SubStack: since I was busy with nodeconf prep
[08:38] ChrisPartridge: SubStack: Most good programmers I know are horrible at creative tasks, you appear to be the exception :)
[08:39] ChrisPartridge: aaronblohowiak: Weekly digest would be perfect
[08:39] darshanshankar: chapel++
[08:39] v8bot:  darshanshankar has given a beer to chapel. chapel now has 3 beers.
[08:39] SubStack: I can sing and dance too!
[08:39] darshanshankar: chapel: Berkeley, CA
[08:39] aaronblohowiak: ChrisPartridge: for all updates or just ones you explicitly sign up for?
[08:39] darshanshankar: aw the chapel bot is broken.. *goes back to work*
[08:40] SubStack: I am the all-singing, all-dancing crap of this world
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[08:40] chapel:  Weather for Berkeley, CA · 54°F (12°C) · Humidity: 77% · Overcast · Wind: West at 15 mph · Last Updated on May 12, 12:53 AM PDT
[08:40] chapel: lol
[08:40] xeodox: :wq
[08:40] xeodox: oops
[08:40] ChrisPartridge: aaronblohowiak: All packages would be good, but may get unweildy I guess
[08:40] SubStack: :x
[08:41] SubStack: ChrisPartridge: but programming is a fundamentally creative task
[08:41] aaronblohowiak: xeodox: lol
[08:41] ChrisPartridge: SubStack: Yeah but it requires a more logical thought process
[08:41] xeodox: vi > emacs 
[08:41] crabs: what settings do i have to change when the modules that i install with npm are not availible automatically in nodejs?
[08:41] mraleph has joined the channel
[08:41] aaronblohowiak: crabs: wht version of npm, et cetera
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[08:42] SubStack: drawing is just a spatial awareness problem
[08:42] SubStack: projecting lines in 3-space onto a 2-d surface
[08:42] crabs: aaronblohowiak: npm version1.0.6
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[08:43] SubStack: being aware of your own optical conditioning and looking past the higher-level symbolism to get at the raw sensory inputs
[08:43] aaronblohowiak: crabs: do you know about local and global installation?
[08:43] alek_br_ has joined the channel
[08:43] aaronblohowiak: i am tired.
[08:44] crabs: i figured out that you install it global with -g, but i always did local installations
[08:44] ChrisPartridge: SubStack: Sounds like you have it down to an art
[08:44] ChrisPartridge: (pun intended)
[08:44] SubStack: and you likewise with your masterful puncraft
[08:44] chapel: SubStack: yeah, there is a book about drawing that tells people to draw something upside down
[08:45] SubStack: I'm sure there are lots of books stating as such, it is a very old trick
[08:45] chapel: because it breaks the symbolism of the brain
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[08:47] ChrisPartridge: SubStack: but does it work?
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[08:47] SubStack: ChrisPartridge: it's a useful technique for faces especially
[08:47] russbuelt has joined the channel
[08:47] russbuelt: hi
[08:48] SubStack: since our internal facial recognition algorithms can make it very hard to deconstruct faces properly
[08:49] ChrisPartridge: that's interesting
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[08:51] SubStack: brains are like rails
[08:51] viz has joined the channel
[08:51] SubStack: lots of handy reasonable defaults
[08:51] SubStack: but when you need to override something it's requires so much effort
[08:52] SubStack: s/'s//
[08:52] SubStack: also brains are a mess of spaghetti code
[08:52] k1ttty has joined the channel
[08:52] SubStack: zing
[08:52] chapel: well
[08:53] ChrisPartridge: If only our brains were written in node.js ...
[08:53] chapel: well, I would say our brains are more like an old language that has been upgraded
[08:53] chapel: maybe like c and then c++
[08:53] mawkor2: david bronstein - famous chess player - said he spent most of his career trying to unlearn what he had previously learner
[08:53] mawkor2: which is testament to the spaghetti code comment
[08:54] mawkor2: and something else yoda was going on about
[08:54] ChrisPartridge: surely our sub-concious is like a framework for our brain
[08:54] SubStack: brain are far, far less comprehensible than the worst c code
[08:54] mawkor2: or the other way around
[08:54] SubStack: it's amazing that evolution works at all
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[08:54] mawkor2: if you're into quantum mechanics
[08:55] mawkor2: brain is a framework for the subconscious is an intersting argument
[08:55] chapel: SubStack: yeah, well its like multiple things stacked on each other
[08:55] chapel: maybe like html
[08:55] chapel: where there is xhtml, html5, 4, old versions
[08:55] chapel: custom vendor stuff
[08:56] chapel: not uncomprehensible but definitely disjointed and cobbled together
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[08:56] SubStack: mawkor2: it's not especially interesting, just a differently worded sort of cartesian theatre
[08:58] SubStack: 
ACTION needs to read more dennett

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[08:59] SubStack: write more node modules or read about philosophy of mind, choices choice
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[09:05] viz: my brain is runnning IE6 today :(
[09:05] nexxy: quirksmode?
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[09:10] mscdex: lolsmode
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[09:11] eldios: jesusabdullah, you there?
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[09:12] mawkor2: browser self-update by default is really the best idea to ever come along in browser world
[09:12] jesusabdullah: eldios: I am!
[09:12] mawkor2: its better than rounded corners
[09:13] viz: mawkor2: that should've been thought of a long time ago. kind of evident.
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[09:14] eldios: oh.. a collague =)
[09:14] abraxas: Does anyone know why NodeJS is actually called Node? Where does this name come from?
[09:14] eldios: jesus I'm trying to use your prompt module.. may I query you to ask a question?
[09:17] mscdex: abraxas: iirc it's from the networking term "node"
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[09:27] framlin: is there a way to dispatch non-blocking php-calls (e.g. phpcli) from node, so that the performace is better than direct Apache-Requests?
[09:27] framlin: .. that are blocking
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[09:32] ChrisPartridge: framlin: https://github.com/davidcoallier/node-php might be what your looking for
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[09:34] abraxas: Any asyncjs users around? I'm wondering if waterfall() pushes the last received callback arguments into the final callback on success, just like it does with all the tasks.
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[09:48] hasta84: Hey there and good day!
[09:49] hasta84: I am wondering what the best practice would be to release a node module consisting of a C-Module and some javascripts?
[09:50] hasta84: where do the .node binaries go and where the javascripts?
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[09:59] ChrisPartridge: hasta84: Go to howtonode.org and read the article how to module
[09:59] JackeyChan: hi, nodejs asy i/o is difficute
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[09:59] ChrisPartridge: good starting point, should lead you to all relevant other docs/examples
[09:59] JackeyChan: difficulty
[10:00] ChrisPartridge: JackeyChan: What's the problem?
[10:00] hasta84: Thanks chris!
[10:00] ChrisPartridge: yw
[10:00] mendel_: sweet, core support for spawning a child https://github.com/joyent/node/commit/9e26dab150e15cdbc7fbec76dcadeafed7d85646
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[10:01] JackeyChan: it is there good document for how to use node.js ?
[10:01] JackeyChan: with asy I/O
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[10:02] JackeyChan: the fs.readFile can not return the content and only let you set a callback when finish read file
[10:03] eldios: woo oo.. my first pull request!
[10:03] eldios: \o/
[10:03] ChrisPartridge: JackeyChan: Yes, that is right - you must then perform operations in the callback
[10:03] `3rdEden: YESS it's done, I finally have a blog again XD
[10:04] JackeyChan: so, when I want to do another work with the file content, I only can do in the callback
[10:04] ChrisPartridge: JackeyChan: You probably need to look at an async helper library
[10:04] JackeyChan: and I can not make sure when it is done
[10:04] ChrisPartridge: JackeyChan: Check this out, https://github.com/caolan/async
[10:04] JackeyChan: where can i find it ?
[10:04] mendel_: `3rdEden: mister! where's the blog?
[10:04] JackeyChan: thank you!
[10:05] JackeyChan: ChrisPartridge: Thank you!
[10:05] ChrisPartridge: yw
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[10:05] `3rdEden: mendel_: sir, i haven't posted anything usefull yet. I just finished theming the template :$ anyways i'll be ranting about the web @ http://blog.3rd-eden.com/
[10:06] JackeyChan: but what i said is right , is it ??
[10:06] mendel_: haha ok
[10:07] `3rdEden: mendel_: i'll have time to make a proper introduction post tonight :p
[10:07] `3rdEden: or during lunch
[10:07] JackeyChan: is there any way to return the file content ? 
[10:08] mendel_: `3rdEden: I'm planning to create a blog at http://bind.io, maybe we could chat about it a bit soon
[10:08] mendel_: (cool domain or what ;))
[10:09] `3rdEden: awesome :D mendel_
[10:10] `3rdEden: mendel_: just add me msn / gtalk on info@3rd-Eden.com
[10:11] mendel_: don't use them both.. I'm on the MS Skype ;)
[10:11] `3rdEden: ._.'
[10:11] mendel_: haha
[10:11] `3rdEden: Sky.net?
[10:12] `3rdEden: I think i have one of those accounts as well
[10:14] mendel_: `3rdEden: i've invited you @ gtalk
[10:16] `3rdEden: 
ACTION opens adium and accepts the invite

[10:16] ChrisPartridge: JackeyChan: You can use the sync methods in the fs module
[10:17] ChrisPartridge: which as fair as i know, blocks the event loop until the file contents are returned
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[10:17] nerdfunk: ok
[10:17] nerdfunk: unconed: still about ?
[10:18] unconed: nerdfunk: sort of, off to bed
[10:18] nerdfunk: heh
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[10:42] blueadept: anyone make or trade bitcoins?
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[11:10] Epeli: Is there a tool for Node.js that can minify html?
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[11:20] `3rdEden: html.replace(/\s/g, '' ) :D?
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[11:23] `3rdEden: Epeli port this to node; http://kangax.github.com/html-minifier/
[11:24] Epeli: not a bad idea
[11:24] `3rdEden: you can minifiy js with uglifyjs and minify css with cssmin in the YUI compressor repo
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[11:25] `3rdEden: I use the same code for our own backend, but i can't release that ;9
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[11:29] quacksalot: express question: http://pastebin.com/m1hwufsu what determines if the production or development error handler is used?
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[11:32] Ezku\: quacksalot: the NODE_ENV environment variable
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[11:33] quacksalot: Ezku\: ah. cheeers!
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[11:45] framlin: ChrisPartridge: thanx!!
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[11:50] quacksalot: Ezku\: any idea where i can find some documentation or an example of this, or just where it happens in the code? express, connect? whatever? i'm lost..
[11:51] Ezku\: quacksalot: an example of what? if you wish to see the implementation, check the source :o
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[11:52] quacksalot: yeah, where abouts though? i've been trying to figure out where exactly this happens..
[11:52] quacksalot: i cant see the trees for the forrest..
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[11:54] quacksalot: Ezku\: any hints where to look?
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[11:57] Ezku\: dunno, sorry
[11:58] quacksalot: Ezku\: thats ok.. i'm just struggling to grok the source.. :-/
[11:58] quacksalot: Ezku\: thnks for the info anyway.
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[12:11] quacksalot: Ezku\: i feel like such a dill. line 67. https://github.com/visionmedia/express/blob/master/lib/http.js
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[12:14] quacksalot: not sure how i missed that..
[12:14] quacksalot: i think i'm going to git clone so i can use grep etc. browsing on github sucks balls.
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[12:18] Ezku\: quacksalot: i recommend that
[12:18] Ezku\: although, if you're using npm 1.0 you should have a local copy of express whenever you use it anyways
[12:18] quacksalot: Ezku\: yep far easier
[12:19] quacksalot: i have the old npm on this mac.
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[12:20] quacksalot: its cool, i should've just cloned the thing and used grep in the first place.. :-/ not really thinking straight at the moment
[12:21] ChrisPartridge: grep rules :-)
[12:21] quacksalot: ChrisPartridge: i dunno how people dev on windows boxes without things like, find, grep, awk, sed..
[12:22] ChrisPartridge: quacksalot: I have to use windows (work), but I have plenty of VM's for my nix lovin'
[12:24] quacksalot: hmm kinda sucks..
[12:24] quacksalot: i'd buy my own mac and run windows inside it.,. :)
[12:25] quacksalot: i love my macbook air, its the most awesome little lappy i've owned.
[12:25] ChrisPartridge: I don't like OSX, i prefer a bash shell with my pretty colors :-)
[12:25] quacksalot: fully worked 11inch version..
[12:25] quacksalot: you can have perrty colors in Terminal.app
[12:25] quacksalot: i have.. i have them in emacs too :)
[12:26] tmedema: Any express router ninjas here? Is this the correct way to only allow alphanumeric usernames? server.get('/reqFriendStream/:username([a-zA-Z0-9]+)', function(req, res) ...
[12:26] quacksalot: or you can use the other OSS term which is far more configurable i believe
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[12:30] quacksalot: tmedema: does it work?
[12:30] tmedema: quacksalot: yes
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[12:30] quacksalot: nice.
[12:33] ben_alman: question about git repo submodules: is there a "standard" location for them, like inside a "vendor" top-level dir?
[12:33] tmedema: quacksalot: I am not sure if there is room for improvement
[12:34] guybrush: ben_alman: no
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[12:34] guybrush: ben_alman: but mostly i see put them into ./vendor or ./support
[12:34] guybrush: i like ./vendor
[12:34] guybrush: :)
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[12:34] chapel: ben_alman: with node_modules git submodules aren't needed (unless its not on npm)
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[12:35] guybrush: chapel++
[12:35] v8bot:  guybrush has given a beer to chapel. chapel now has 4 beers.
[12:35] chapel: and even then, you can bundle them yourself
[12:35] JacobSingh: Any opinions on https://github.com/bartek/socket.io-channels
[12:35] guybrush: npm-packages > git-submodules
[12:35] JacobSingh: or other tools to manage socket io comunication?
[12:35] JacobSingh: Basically, just looking for a lightweight framework to pass messages in queueX to function X on the client
[12:35] JacobSingh: so it's not all one big switch statement
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[12:35] quacksalot: tmedema, not sure. looks good to me. but is that the only way to get a username into the app?
[12:35] guybrush: JacobSingh: checkout dnode and nowjs
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[12:36] `3rdEden: JacobSingh: socket.send({channel:'channel', msg: 'omg no abstractions :D '}) ;D?
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[12:36] chapel: json schema validation, which is the best, I see kriszyp has one, not sure which to use at this point
[12:37] JacobSingh: guybrush: thanks, dnode is the obvious front-runner due to the graphic on their readme 
[12:37] JacobSingh: but nowjs looks pretty well documented
[12:37] chapel: well dnode is awesome
[12:37] JacobSingh: I guess they both do the same thing...
[12:37] chapel: I can attest to that
[12:37] guybrush: well they are both very cool, i prefer dnode
[12:37] chapel: and not exactly
[12:38] guybrush: i am literally in love with dnode actually :p
[12:38] chapel: nowjs does one thing dnode does, but dnode does so much more
[12:38] chapel: also dnode is language agnostic
[12:38] chapel: so you can hook into ruby/java whatever
[12:38] JacobSingh: chapel: cool thanks I'll start with it then
[12:38] chapel: and isn't just for browser communication
[12:39] chapel: but don't take our word for it, :P
[12:39] tmedema: quacksalot: no, it's a complex story really -- basically I need to use a binary post and link that to a websocket connection.
[12:39] chapel: no input on json validation?
[12:39] guybrush: dnode even can be used to talk tls-streams!
[12:39] `3rdEden: but nowjs has yc funding ;)
[12:40] `3rdEden: sitting on a pile of money always helps with development
[12:40] chapel: `3rdEden: but dnode has an awesome implementation in browserling
[12:40] guybrush: i wonder why everyone knows about that yc funding :p
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[12:42] JacobSingh: Sorry, stupid question but does dnode / socket.io need to run on a different port than express?
[12:42] guybrush: no
[12:42] guybrush: you can attach dnode to your express-server
[12:43] tmedema: the way I see it dnode is at a better state atm but now may have more potential
[12:43] guybrush: just do dnode().listen(expressServer)
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[12:43] guybrush: tmedema: why is that?
[12:43] guybrush: dont say its because of the money :p
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[12:44] chapel: potential? now.js is just browser stuff, and thats all they seem to be interested in
[12:44] tmedema: guybrush: why now may have more potential? because they have a paid team working on it; and they're focusing on a cluster version
[12:44] guybrush: dnode is more like put small parts together to make it work, nowjs is more like take this to own everything
[12:44] chapel: dnode is more like node, in that it is a robust tool, that can be added onto to make it do whatever you want with middleware
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[12:44] tmedema: agree with chapel
[12:45] JacobSingh: I have to say, this channel is awesome
[12:45] chapel: anything nowjs has or will have, dnode will have at one point or another
[12:45] JacobSingh: you guys are a huge help
[12:45] chapel: we try
[12:45] chapel: (when Im not busy that is
[12:45] chapel: )
[12:45] chapel: :P
[12:45] JacobSingh: there is a lot of context to absorb in the node.js space and not very established stacks yet IMO
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[12:46] chapel: node is the byos (build your own stack)
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[12:46] JacobSingh: so just trying to figure out what library is best can be hard.  The code itself is all good and I can figure it out, but I'm terrified of making the wrong technology choices
[12:46] `3rdEden: JacobSingh: thats a good thing :) competition drives innovation :)
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[12:46] guybrush: JacobSingh: established stacks are not good for innovation IMHO
[12:47] JacobSingh: Oh yeah, I agree
[12:47] chapel: JacobSingh: sometimes the best option is to actually try them
[12:47] JacobSingh: chapel: if only this was my paying gig :)
[12:47] guybrush: so its good to not have a list of tools everyone uses because he doesnt know better
[12:47] c4milo: guybrush: ++ 
[12:47] JacobSingh: Yeah, but opinions are important.
[12:47] JacobSingh: that don't come from the author's readme
[12:47] chapel: guybrush++
[12:47] v8bot:  chapel has given a beer to guybrush. guybrush now has 2 beers.
[12:47] guybrush: thats what you get in #node.js :D
[12:47] guybrush: the opinions i mean
[12:47] guybrush: and dramas too!
[12:47] JacobSingh: you get fragmentation, not innovation when you have no reputation system or a lack of active opinions
[12:48] guybrush: its better than tv
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[12:48] JacobSingh: see Drupal ;)
[12:48] c4milo: it depends of the sort of project
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[12:50] c4milo: If I work for a software company, I will go with some stack. If I work for a company who is developing its own product I will choose the simplest stack and then build new things on top of it. 
[12:51] c4milo: but yes, evaluating alternatives isn't an easy task 
[12:51] c4milo: it you have to be methodic and objective 
[12:51] c4milo: s/it/and/ 
[12:51] chapel: I agree that its nice to have an easy way to validate which modules are worth investing your time in, but I don't think people should use that as an exhaustive list of what they have to use
[12:52] sjbreen: couldn't npm have like a download count or something? Just to have one way of comparing?
[12:53] guybrush: there is a special section in the node-doc though, which lists packages its worth to look into
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[12:53] guybrush: http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.7/api/appendix_1.html it is just another opinion anyway
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[13:05] guybrush: sjbreen: that would be cool, we need to poke isaacs and mikeal about that :p
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[13:07] guybrush: but there is already one very usefull indicator you can look for regarding the "quality" of packages -> dependencies
[13:08] guybrush: 85 packages depend on underscore, that has to mean something
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[13:15] chjj: ahhh, liboio was renamed to "libuv"
[13:15] chjj: https://github.com/joyent/libuv
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[13:15] guybrush: what stands uv for?
[13:15] guybrush: thought it will be uw (unix windows)
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[13:16] clip: hi i'm still trying to figure out what i'm doing wrong with npm. I have version 1.0.6, the node_modules dir is in my node-server folder. Now when i install modules with npm i can't require them in a server.js. what did i do wrong??
[13:16] chjj: well, it includes libev now
[13:16] chjj: its bundled with libev
[13:16] chjj: so im guessing the "v" is taken out of there
[13:17] guybrush: clip: cd into the dir where your server.js lives and do npm install <whatever> you should be able to require(<whatever>) then
[13:18] chjj: clip: your directory structure looks like /node-server/node_modules and node-server/server.js ?
[13:18] caike: clip: is you server.js in the same dir as your node_modules ?
[13:18] clip: ahh, no that seems to be ther problem
[13:19] guybrush: clip: see http://nodejs.org/docs/v0.4.7/api/modules.html
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[13:19] clip: thanks
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[13:45] rostayob: Stupid stupid question about npm
[13:45] rostayob: it seems it install stuff in .npm/package-name
[13:45] rostayob: what do i do if I want the bins in my PATH?
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[13:49] telemachus: rostayob: What version are you using?
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[13:50] rostayob: telemachus: 1.0.6
[13:50] telemachus: I thought it now installed by default in $(pwd)/node_modules
[13:50] telemachus: How did you install npm? (globally/via sudo or somesuch?)
[13:51] rostayob: what? why would it do that?
[13:51] rostayob: oh, right
[13:51] rostayob: it does
[13:51] telemachus: rostayob: One sec, I'll get you the link
[13:51] rostayob: i want to install it just for my use
[13:51] rostayob: r
[13:51] rostayob: it actually put it both in the pwd/node_modules
[13:51] Aikar: rostayob: ~/.npm is a cache folder, if a module has a bin you need you need to sudo npm install blah -g
[13:51] rostayob: and in the .npm dir
[13:51] telemachus: http://blog.nodejs.org/2011/05/01/npm-1-0-released/
[13:51] rostayob: why? I don't want to install it globally
[13:51] rostayob: and sometimes I can't :P
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[13:52] Aikar: if you want the bin in path you need to, unless you modify your PATH to be PWD/node_modules/.bin/blah
[13:52] rostayob: so there is no way to install something user-wise?
[13:52] telemachus: rostayob: What do you mean by user-wise?
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[13:52] telemachus: where would it go? $HOME/local?
[13:53] rostayob: telemachus: .npm/something would be reasonable
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[13:53] rostayob: for example cabal (npm for haskell) has a .caba/(bin/local/usr) etc etc
[13:53] rostayob: anyway whatever I'll just package the packages
[13:53] rostayob: for archlinux :P
[13:54] telemachus: I like the way npm handles things now, though I suppose I see your point for a third option
[13:54] telemachus: first two being per-app/isolated or system-wide
[13:54] rostayob: it's strange that noone feels the need of something like that :P
[13:54] rostayob: i mean most of the times you'd like to install an untrusted package like that user wise
[13:55] telemachus: rostayob: Most of the time I want it in $(pwd)/node_modules
[13:55] telemachus: I like that isolation
[13:55] rostayob: oh right
[13:55] telemachus: I don't even want it on my user's path
[13:55] rostayob: so a per project thing
[13:55] rostayob: yeah
[13:55] telemachus: just for the project
[13:55] telemachus: yeah
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[13:55] telemachus: I use Isolate to do the same in Ruby actually
[13:56] rostayob: the thing is that i stumbled upon npm because of coffee-script
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[13:56] rostayob: and I'd like just to have the compiler
[13:56] rostayob: boh
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[13:56] telemachus: right, but that I would want system-wide
[13:56] telemachus: but I get that you might want the intermediate option
[13:56] telemachus: mention it or post an issue on npm maybe?
[13:57] rostayob: when I install something system wide I want it to be packaged anyway... things get messy when you have 2/3/4 package managers
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[13:57] rostayob: packaged for my distribution
[13:57] telemachus: right
[13:57] telemachus: I'm on OSX, so I'm used to pain (no package manager).
[13:57] rostayob: yeah that was a mistake
[13:57] telemachus: working in a mac shop? probably...
[13:57] telemachus: :)
[13:58] rostayob: buying a mac :P
[13:58] telemachus: oh, well, fuck that - I didn't buy one, lol
[13:58] telemachus: they bought it for me
[13:58] rostayob: oh
[13:58] rostayob: ok
[13:58] rostayob: are those stories true? about how they "motivate" employees and stuff like that
[13:58] telemachus: I just work here and here they use Macs. It is what it is.
[13:59] rostayob: anyway
[13:59] telemachus: For me it's a demotivator, but I like my job (teacher + sys-admin), so it's fine. I don't work in software per se. So no idea how they motivate people there.
[13:59] test: macs?
[13:59] test: mac is a tool
[13:59] test: no more 
[13:59] test: no less
[13:59] telemachus: test: Yeah, for many it's a religion (I agree with you, but you know what I mean).
[13:59] rostayob: test: i don't like that tool that much, but that's an old flame war
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[14:01] rostayob: anyway i'll just package them
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[14:04] tiemonster: What would explain os.cpus() returning nothing?
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[14:06] nurb: hello! why do i have two different "nodes" one when i run with "sudo node bla.js" and one when i simply run "node bla.js" .. ?
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[14:07] tiemonster: the os module doesn't appear to work at all on SunOS. Is this a permissions problem?
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[14:08] tiemonster: nurb: running on different ports?
[14:08] nurb: tiemonster: no, regardless of runtime - they refer to different node modules and libraries..
[14:09] tiemonster: nurb: so what's the question then? you're running two processes and you're asking why you have two processes?
[14:09] EyePulp: anyone using mixpanel for event tracking?
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[14:10] nurb: tiemonster: no, again, before any process even ran - the "sudo node bla.js" is apparently referring to an older version of node
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[14:11] nurb: tiemonster: how can i make the "sudo node bla.js" work with the same node version that my current user has installed, which is the latest
[14:12] tiemonster: nurb: install globally?
[14:12] nurb: tiemonster: yes, sorry, what does that mean?
[14:12] tiemonster: depends
[14:12] tiemonster: what OS? how did you install them?
[14:13] tmedema: Maybe a stupid question, but in Javascript, can you delete a property within the function that is set to that property, eg: https://gist.github.com/968572 ?
[14:13] nurb: tiemonster: Ubuntu, the newest version via nvm
[14:13] tiemonster: you mean npm?
[14:14] nurb: tiemonster: no, i mean nvm - node version manager
[14:14] tiemonster: never heard of it
[14:14] tiemonster: 
ACTION googles

[14:15] lukstr: nurb: it means the user has a version of node on his path that is overriding the system wide install
[14:15] lukstr: so something is borked
[14:15] tiemonster: tmedema: even if it's possible, I wouldn't recommend it. besides, even if the first delete was successful, in theory the second would never run.
[14:15] nurb: lukstr: obviously :(:(
[14:16] tiemonster: nurb: which do you want to keep?
[14:16] tiemonster: root's or users' ?
[14:16] lukstr: nurb: you can't really *force* the user to not mess up their path
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[14:16] tiemonster: unless he's the user
[14:16] lukstr: heh
[14:16] tiemonster: he/she. guess I shouldn't assume.
[14:16] tmedema: tiemonster: why would the second never run? the first command merely removes a property, it does not remove the actual function
[14:16] nurb: tiemonster: the one the current user is using (which is a sudoer) but i need sudo to listen(80) 
[14:17] nurb: tiemonster: and this is where i FAIL
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[14:18] nurb: tiemonster: because then i run the same thing only "sudo samething" but then all the modules are old 
[14:18] lukstr: nurb: so you want the user to use the system wide install?
[14:18] lukstr: did you run nvm with sudo?
[14:18] tiemonster: nurb: sounds like a mess
[14:18] nurb: lukstr: no 
[14:18] nurb: lukstr: sudo doesnt know what nvm is even
[14:19] lukstr: huh
[14:19] nurb: lukstr: o_O
[14:19] lukstr: sudo doesn't need to know anything
[14:19] nurb: lukstr: i hate sudo
[14:19] lukstr: okay let me see what nvm is
[14:19] tiemonster: tmedema: your syntax is wrong, too
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[14:20] lukstr: nurb: did you add nvm to your .bashrc?
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[14:20] nurb: lukstr: why can't my user just "be" a sudo and have permission to run listen(80)
[14:20] nurb: lukstr: hrmff don't think so lemme check
[14:20] tmedema: tiemonster: hmm?
[14:20] lukstr: nurb: you can absolutely give your user root priviledges but it's frowned upon
[14:20] tmedema: tiemonster: ah yes, typo
[14:21] lukstr: nurb: so how do you run nvm?
[14:21] tmedema: was just an example
[14:21] nurb: lukstr: what do you mean how
[14:21] tiemonster: tmedema: http://pastebin.com/jMS4wbNG
[14:21] lukstr: what do you type to run nvm
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[14:22] tiemonster: nurb: best practice would be to install globally what you need root to have access to
[14:22] lukstr: you know, it looks to me like you should just remove nvm from the picture.
[14:22] tmedema: tiemonster: what's up with that paste?
[14:22] tiemonster: tmedema: so nothing is deleted. at least in V8.
[14:22] nurb: lukstr: how would i install new node versions then
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[14:23] lukstr: nurb: I just clone the sources from git
[14:23] tiemonster: oops. closed the wrong terminal window. ;-)
[14:24] tmedema: tiemonster: you never called endAndDestruct
[14:25] tiemonster: ah
[14:25] tiemonster: good call
[14:25] nurb: lukstr: and you make it yourself as sudo?
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[14:25] tmedema: tiemonster: it works perfect for me in v8: http://jsfiddle.net/wUScv/
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[14:26] lukstr: nurb: yes
[14:26] lukstr: and then install npm with root
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[14:26] nurb: lukstr: and you always use "sudo node bla.js"?
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[14:26] lukstr: nurb: no
[14:27] nurb: lukstr: so how do you listen on 80?
[14:27] lukstr: nurb: I use nginx to route to my node app on whatever port I want
[14:27] tiemonster: tmedema: yeah, so... I guess that's ok...
[14:27] lukstr: nurb: but that's what I do personally
[14:27] tiemonster: 
ACTION bookmarks jsfiddle.net ;-)

[14:27] nurb: lukstr: WHAT .. ok ....
[14:28] nurb: lukstr: ok ill try to just use the sudo's installation thanks for your help guyz
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[14:30] lukstr: nurb: most web services don't run as root for security reasons, so using something like nginx which runs as root to bind ports then switches to an unpriveledged user is easy. You can probably do the same with node, but I couldn't tell you how. Running a nodejs app as root is probably a bad idea
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[14:31] nurb: lukstr: but isnt it a overhead to converse with nginix for each request?
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[14:32] lukstr: nurb: of course but it's very small
[14:33] lukstr: nurb: nginx is one of the better solutions, the overhead is negligable for the most part. Something like apache would be too, except there is a thread limit.
[14:34] nurb: lukstr: ok thanks maybe ill just change the port (but then FB doesn't like that)
[14:34] lukstr: nurb: if you're using ubuntu: try privbind, it seems to do the trick
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[14:34] lukstr: an example with privbind is
[14:34] brianc1: anyone know why the name change from liboio to libuv? liboio sounded so _cool_
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[14:35] enzo: hi
[14:35] c4milo: oh hai
[14:35] c4milo: I agree with you brianc1
[14:35] lukstr: $ sudo privbind -u $(id -u) -g $(id -g) $(which node) myapp.js
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[14:35] lukstr: so that would allow it to bind to port 80 and then drop root priveledges, which is better than just running as root
[14:35] c4milo: brianc1: I didn't know they changed the name :s 
[14:35] nurb: lukstr: oh wowz i didn't know there is such a thing fankyou
[14:35] lukstr: nurb: me neither, google is great :)
[14:36] brianc1: c4milo: yah: https://github.com/joyent/libuv
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[14:36] enzo: little question, if I code a node.js server with socket.io, how can I make access to the latter on the port 80 ? the answer is passProxy I guess, but it will work only for long polling clients, and not websocket clients no ?
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[14:37] lukstr: enzo: run it on a different port
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[14:38] enzo: lukstr: so I run my apache on 80 and the node.js+socket.io on port 8080 for example ok, but how can I let my user access the nodejs via the port 80 ?
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[14:38] enzo: imagine my user are behind a firewall that forbids 8080
[14:39] lukstr: enzo: I use nginx instead of apache because apache has issues handling a lot of requests, but for a small number of requests you can just do a reverse proxy with apache
[14:40] brianc1: enzo: lukstr: last time I checked, nginx does not reverse-proxy to socket.io correctly
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[14:40] lukstr: brianc1: interesting, one second
[14:40] enzo: ok so I do that lukstr, but it will work only for long polling clients and not for pure websocket clients that handle a connection no ?
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[14:41] enzo: my question is for websocket clients indeed (not long polling client where reverse proxy is ok)
[14:41] brianc1: matter of fact, I wasn't able to find any software proxies that handled web-sockets.  What the response to me at the time was "relax, put node on port 80, and have a beer" which I have been doing to good effect since the recommendation
[14:41] lukstr: brianc1: seeing as that is not often possible I'm interested in a solution now
[14:42] enzo: brianc1: but if you run node on port 80, there's no php module available for your page and so on
[14:42] lukstr: enzo: you can make node do the routing
[14:42] Lorentz: Let node be the reverse proxy then?
[14:42] lukstr: the issue is nginx closes after routing
[14:43] enzo: I prefer a well known webserver as apache or nginx in the front indeed
[14:43] enzo: and route the websocket/long polling clients
[14:43] lukstr: looks like it's impossible with nginx currently
[14:43] enzo: but I guess it's not possible...
[14:43] brianc1: if you need socket.io on 80 i think you could set up a separate sub-domain for the socket.io server...
[14:43] lukstr: apparently HAProxy can do it
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[14:44] `3rdEden: nawww no subdomain
[14:44] enzo: yes brianc1 not a bad idea, 
[14:44] `3rdEden: it is a bad idea
[14:44] `3rdEden: as you will disable allot of high quality transports
[14:44] enzo: `3rdEden: brianc1 meant another domain, and using port 80 on it
[14:44] `3rdEden: because not all socket.io transports are cross domain compatible
[14:44] enzo: ? `3rdEden ?
[14:44] baudehlo has joined the channel
[14:45] `3rdEden: i can't type that fast lol
[14:45] `3rdEden: why don't you add node-http-proxy on port 80? it seems to be able to proxy websocket requests
[14:45] `3rdEden: and have that proxy between your php and node app
[14:46] enzo: lukstr: HAProxy works with apache or nginx ? (or both)
[14:46] lukstr: enzo: I assume it's the same class as something like nginx
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[14:47] enzo: hum `3rdEden you mean nginx on port 80 + node-http-proxy, that proxy towards node.js running on port 8080 for example ?
[14:47] lukstr: enzo: https://github.com/yaoweibin/nginx_tcp_proxy_module << nginx module for tcp proxing might do it, if it's stable
[14:47] sooli: hello
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[14:47] sooli: Hi have a pb with expressjs and app.use(express.bodyParser()); 
[14:47] enzo: ok lukstr
[14:48] sooli: I don't have any body attributes created in my req object
[14:48] enzo: but `3rdEden I don't understand why a subdomain is a bad idea ? seems perfect, no proxy at all
[14:48] enzo: only another IP, and using port 80 on it
[14:48] `3rdEden: because it's considered cross domain
[14:48] `3rdEden: when a browser doesn't support websockets or flash
[14:48] `3rdEden: it will fallback to polling
[14:48] `3rdEden: XHR polling for example, and XHR can't be used cross browser
[14:48] enzo: socket.io doesn't support cross domain ?
[14:48] enzo: well it can `3rdEden
[14:48] micheil: most browsers support either websockets or flash.
[14:49] `3rdEden: It's not a limitation of socket.io it's a limitation of the browsers
[14:49] enzo: no
[14:49] enzo: it's a limitation of socket.io
[14:49] `3rdEden: sure, socket.io is gonna ship an internal browser that will allow IE7 to do cross browser XHR
[14:49] enzo: indeed i've coded a websocket server, i can run it on ip:port different than the main ip:80, and it rocks
[14:49] enzo: => socket.io has to handle the OPTIONS query for that
[14:50] `3rdEden: it supports all that
[14:50] `3rdEden: but that doesn't mean that there are browser that doesn't do / support it
[14:50] lukstr: enzo: there will still be cases where a certain browser will not work at all with your app
[14:50] `3rdEden: and if you go cross domain these will fallback to json polling for example
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[14:51] `3rdEden: and there is nothing what socket.io can do about that, as it already leverages all existing web techonologies to create a peristent real time stream of information
[14:51] enzo: ok, gonna test the OPTIONS support on other browsers to have an idea
[14:52] enzo: you think some famous browsers still doesn't support this `3rdEden ?
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[14:52] `3rdEden: i'm not talking about the famouse high end browser, im referring to the crappy ie5,6,7, ff 2.0, opera 9 etc
[14:53] halfhalo: nobody likes those.
[14:53] `3rdEden: it might not be significat amount of your traffic, but they are still part of your traffic
[14:53] enzo: yes, but how many % do they represent
[14:53] CiRlE has joined the channel
[14:53] `3rdEden: idk, i don't have your analytic stats :D
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[14:53] chjj: ie6 and ie7 are so dead, dont support them
[14:53] chjj: youre only perpetuating the problem if you do
[14:54] enzo: but I see your point `3rdEden, thanks
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[14:55] lukstr: enzo: realistically you can circumvent css restrictions pretty easily on all modern browsers that have css enforcement, so the problem is fairly moot. Still, it's probably best to avoid it if possible, but I wouldn't redesign anything because of it
[14:55] halfhalo: I stand by my last major rev - one for browser support rule, but with fancy stuff I always make sure the site can work without it
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[14:56] lukstr: enzo: you could always hack something horrific on in the case your XHR is denied and just harass a same domain page that will proxy for you, but that is so ugly I don't even want to think about it
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[14:56] enzo: perfect solution is the tcp proxy
[14:57] enzo: but is it stable, that's the question...
[14:57] lukstr: heh, yes
[14:57] lukstr: it would seem it is used fairly often
[14:57] lukstr: with nginx
[14:57] enzo: gonna look for a tcp proxy under apache, I'm not using nginx for now, maybe I'll switch one day, if a benchmark convinces me
[14:58] npmlive has joined the channel
[14:58] npmlive: new release: dashboard: 0.0.1 Create dashboards with gadgets on node.js
[14:58] npmlive: new release: node-schedule: 0.1.2 A cron-like and not-cron-like job scheduler for Node.
[14:58] npmlive: new release: sessionvoc-client: 1.0.1 Client interfacing with a SessionVOC
[14:58] npmlive: new release: kaffeine: 0.1.1 Enhanced Syntax for Javascript
[14:58] npmlive: new release: pipe_utils: 0.0.5 Utilities for use with the pipe operator in Kaffeine
[14:58] lukstr: enzo: I was convinced because I found nginx much easier to work with than apache :)
[14:58] npmlive: new release: redback: 0.1.3 A high-level Redis library
[14:58] npmlive: new release: recline: 0.0.4 High level client library for couchDB which facilitates the creation of wufoo like forms, meetup.com like events and membership groups.
[14:58] npmlive: new release: mai: 0.0.2 send text/html e-mail with mail template management feature
[14:58] npmlive: new release: saiga: 0.0.6 A set of handy file system/build tools, based on Nyala promises
[14:58] npmlive: new release: wscomm: 0.0.4 WebSocket JSON-RPC bidirectional communication library
[14:58] npmlive: new release: json4ender: 0.0.1 Ender bridge to provide JSON shim for JSON-less browsers and FF buggy JSON.stringify()
[14:58] npmlive: new release: mootools-client: 1.3.2 MooTools build for the browser.
[14:58] npmlive: new release: mootools-server: 1.3.2 MooTools build for the server side JavaScript.
[14:58] npmlive: new release: mud: 0.0.4 A package manager for browser-side JavaScript
[14:58] npmlive: new release: mootools-core: 1.3.2 The heart of MooTools.
[14:58] npmlive: Hello there, people.
[14:58] lukstr: that was nice
[14:58] chapel: hmm, okay, well that is surely spam
[14:59] aaronblohowiak: sorry
[14:59] chapel: aaronblohowiak: haha
[14:59] aaronblohowiak: my bot had a bug
[14:59] clip: hello. since few days i'm trying to figure out how to configure a server so that i can connect from webbrowser and flash. the http-server worked fine with socket.io, but i couldn't connect from flash. than i noticed that i can connect to a tcp-server from flash, but not the web-browser? anyone good a good advice please??
[14:59] aaronblohowiak: but those are all new releases in the last 6 hours =(
[14:59] enzo: much easier in what way lukstr ? for tcp proxy ?
[14:59] lukstr: enzo: no just everything in general, apache drives me up the wall
[14:59] baudehlo: wow, lots of releases for 6 hours.
[15:00] lukstr: enzo: nginx just felt right
[15:00] lukstr: and I had it default onto apache so apache can still handle crap under it
[15:00] enzo: it performs rewriting, php module, deflate, and so on lukstr ?
[15:00] lukstr: yes
[15:00] lukstr: er
[15:00] lukstr: not php module directly, but you just proxy something that does I guess
[15:00] enzo: oh
[15:01] lukstr: so if I want php I'll use apache :P
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[15:01] lukstr: I just slapped it on top, told it to forward to apache, switched apache to 8080, and I had to change nothing else. It took about 15 minutes
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[15:02] enzo: It seems to be able to use php under nginx, with php fastcgi
[15:02] halfhalo: yeah, I run php fine under nginx
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[15:06] OprahWeLoveYou: What is the best practice for unescaping a string?
[15:06] OprahWeLoveYou: To convert stuff like %20 to spaces and %2C to ,
[15:06] lukstr: enzo: there you go :) I'm in a hating on php phase so I give bad advice
[15:06] eldios: use a dedicated module which does urlescaping?
[15:07] OprahWeLoveYou: Or just do some rregular expression replaces?
[15:07] eldios: OprahWeLoveYou, look for sanitizing modules or such
[15:07] aconbere has joined the channel
[15:07] eldios: we if you feel like you're 110% thath you will sanitize every possible combination you would need
[15:07] eldios: do so =)
[15:08] OprahWeLoveYou: We're trying to minimize dependence on modules in order to limit the exposure of our large, commercial project to node.js changes.
[15:08] eldios: fork a stable working sanitizing module
[15:08] eldios: and keep it inside your project
[15:08] OprahWeLoveYou: Had to do that with brianc's pg module to fix bugs in it for a while
[15:09] OprahWeLoveYou: But now in new versions pg is fixed :)
[15:10] lukstr: OprahWeLoveYou: just rip out the heart of a urlescaping module, most of them are pretty similar and tiny from what I've seen
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[15:11] baudehlo: OprahWeLoveYou: querystring.unescape
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[15:13] OprahWeLoveYou: baudehlo: That's present in node.js by default?
[15:13] baudehlo: yes.
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[15:14] baudehlo: var unescape = require('querystring').unescape;
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[15:16] OprahWeLoveYou: I wonder what happens when you escape %27 :)
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[15:16] sjbreen: sorry, why are you unescaping a string?
[15:17] OprahWeLoveYou: %25 ah
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[15:17] sjbreen: I thought you always escape one
[15:17] OprahWeLoveYou: So %27 becomes %2527 after escaping
[15:17] OprahWeLoveYou: I am escaping so I can POST
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[15:18] baudehlo: I'm pretty sure posting handles escaping for you in the API.
[15:18] OprahWeLoveYou: I wish I could just post C strings delimited by a NULL
[15:18] OprahWeLoveYou: baudehlo: Oh interesting
[15:19] baudehlo: oh maybe not.
[15:19] ryah has joined the channel
[15:19] baudehlo: *shrug* ignore me. I don't do web stuff.
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[15:20] Lorentz: Now you can mix web stuff with C++ stuff!
[15:20] OprahWeLoveYou: baudehlo: I like your line of thinking though :)
[15:20] Lorentz: Anything goes, anything goes
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[15:21] OprahWeLoveYou: I wish things like POST and COOKIES were as easy as PHP sometimes
[15:21] azend has joined the channel
[15:22] OprahWeLoveYou: But maybe ryah wants to keep node.js simple
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[15:22] ShuzRaGe: woo, almost finished dnode middleware
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[15:24] OprahWeLoveYou: ChrisPartridge: Oooh middle ware
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[15:26] bloodsucker: Holaaaa node.js developersss!
[15:26] Lorentz: hi
[15:26] bloodsucker: hi Lorentz 
[15:26] bloodsucker: I love node.js
[15:26] Lorentz: We all do.
[15:26] bloodsucker: it is my new language for server side
[15:26] bloodsucker: prefered*
[15:27] tbranyen: you mean framework
[15:27] tbranyen: :)
[15:27] tbranyen: its a language in the same way american is a language
[15:27] bloodsucker: tbranyen, "your" means "i"?
[15:27] bloodsucker: me*/I/blooduscker??
[15:27] bloodsucker: xD
[15:28] tbranyen: ... yes
[15:28] bloodsucker: oh, well, now i understand xD
[15:28] bloodsucker: So i love node.js "framework"
[15:28] bloodsucker: javascript "framework"
[15:28] bloodsucker: and... if it works using mootools for server... it is going the best so.
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[15:30] bloodsucker: I think javascript is the future. In all ways.
[15:30] baudehlo: really?
[15:30] bloodsucker: of course.
[15:30] baudehlo: it better get a lot better then :)
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[15:31] tbranyen: javascript isn't really the future so much as the present
[15:31] guigouz: it's just a tool, among many others, each one's good at a particular job
[15:31] bloodsucker: it is our present now
[15:31] lukstr: we're just lucky that the engines have gotten fast
[15:31] bloodsucker: lukstr, yes
[15:31] bloodsucker: Thanks Google
[15:32] tbranyen: lukstr: yeah and now that the gaming industry and looking serious at html5 its only going to get faster
[15:32] tbranyen: and/is
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[15:32] bloodsucker: tbranyen, i am doing a html5 game
[15:32] bloodsucker: and the server side of my game is using node.js
[15:32] tbranyen: i never would have guessed
[15:32] lukstr: tbranyen: you mean embedded webkit or making games in html5? because it's still a ways off I'd say
[15:33] tbranyen: lukstr: well angry birds arguably the most popular mobile game atm was just ported
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[15:33] lukstr: there is a lot of stuff in html5 that is illdefined
[15:33] tbranyen: lukstr: the keyword i gave was "interest"
[15:33] bloodsucker: well, i mean: browser (not wetbkit) games (html+css+alotofjavascript
[15:33] tbranyen: wait i didn't say that
[15:33] tbranyen: but i meant it!
[15:33] bloodsucker: +serverSide controller using socket.io in node.
[15:33] lukstr: yeah but angry birds is a casual game. Casual games have almost always existed in that market space. It would be nice to see some real hard core stuff
[15:34] bloodsucker: i am working in a real game engine for a real game in browser.
[15:34] bloodsucker: ...with isometric perspective xD
[15:34] bloodsucker: in the past i choosed canvas for the draw part.... but it is slowly by some reasons
[15:35] bloodsucker: So my games renders directly using html (better! :P)
[15:35] lukstr: huh
[15:35] bloodsucker: because it doesn't re-render each 1/60 seconds.
[15:35] bloodsucker: sorry for my english.
[15:35] guigouz: bloodsucker: are you using any specific library for client side rendering ?
[15:36] bloodsucker: guigouz, no. Mootools and my mind... it is too easy.
[15:36] lukstr: no worries, I'm just confused about the directly using html part, you mean rendering with html elements rather than to a surface (webgl/canvas)
[15:36] bloodsucker: lukstr, exactly.
[15:36] bloodsucker: I have a very OLLLD demo of my game
[15:36] leek has joined the channel
[15:36] bloodsucker: It is only using a client side demo.
[15:36] bloodsucker: I can put for see you
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[15:37] bloodsucker: and if you have firebug or compatible debugger see the differents elements in  html
[15:37] bloodsucker: wait for my link
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[15:37] EvanCarroll: how do you get an isometric tile out of html, isometric requires equilateral parallelograms? skew a cube with some esoteric css3, and rotate it with css3 ?
[15:37] bloodsucker: Please, see the demo: http://kinebox.com/demo/cabocity/main.html
[15:38] bloodsucker: EvanCarroll, using CSS3
[15:38] bloodsucker: EvanCarroll, yes :D
[15:38] EvanCarroll: but that's a canvas.
[15:38] bloodsucker: See the css files of my project. The "isometric" css class exactly.
[15:38] test: css?
[15:38] bloodsucker: EvanCarroll, no
[15:38] bloodsucker: is css not canvas
[15:38] test: this a node forum
[15:38] bloodsucker: test, sorry test.
[15:39] EvanCarroll: that webpage is clearly canvas.
[15:39] bloodsucker: EvanCarroll, isn't canvas.
[15:39] lukstr: oh dear
[15:39] test: no worries
[15:39] bloodsucker: there aren't canvas there hehe
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[15:39] bloodsucker: :P
[15:39] lukstr: EvanCarroll: no he's using css transforms
[15:39] bloodsucker: everybody things that :P
[15:39] guigouz: bloodsucker: should the links on the top work ?
[15:39] EvanCarroll: 10:38 < bloodsucker> Please, see the demo: http://kinebox.com/demo/cabocity/main.html
[15:39] bloodsucker: yes
[15:39] EvanCarroll: 			<canvas id="grid"  width="1024" height="600" ></canvas> 
[15:39] EvanCarroll: right on that page.
[15:39] bloodsucker: EvanCarroll, is ONLY for the grid (sorry ) :P
[15:39] lukstr: EvanCarroll: all the tiles are elements, transformed
[15:40] bloodsucker: guigouz, yes, it works, but you should add roads
[15:40] guigouz: links aren't working here
[15:40] bloodsucker: add a road to the more right coor.
[15:40] bloodsucker: then click the first "demo" link
[15:40] bloodsucker: and see whats happends :P
[15:40] nibblebot: what are folks' preferred console.log enhancer? color, show filename, line number, etc
[15:40] bloodsucker: For test demo links do: add a road in the most right corner to other coor.
[15:40] bloodsucker: then click
[15:41] nibblebot: and also I guess syslogging util
[15:41] guigouz: now i got it
[15:41] bloodsucker: guigouz, is it too lovely haha
[15:41] bloodsucker: there are little zeldas... the first image i found in internet xD
[15:41] bloodsucker: this is a old demo of the project but it have better things
[15:42] bloodsucker: more and better things
[15:42] sathia: hi
[15:43] sathia: looking for a nodejs developer to develop a nodejs chat for mobile phones, if interested send me a message
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[15:43] guigouz: bloodsucker: yesterday i was looking at http://craftyjs.com/demos.php
[15:43] guigouz: I develop game-related services, but only the server-side part for now
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[15:44] guigouz: there are different guys working at the user interface parte
[15:44] tiemonster: sathia: where?
[15:44] guigouz: part*
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[15:45] guigouz: bloodsucker: ever watched the paul bakaus talk about the Aves Engine (which was later bought by Zynga) ?
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[15:46] bloodsucker: guigouz, i don't know what talk are you talked but could be the same i was inspired. yes.
[15:46] bloodsucker: but i don't like the methods of css it use
[15:46] bloodsucker: so i use other better
[15:46] bloodsucker: but i are similars
[15:46] bloodsucker: it*
[15:46] guigouz: it has nice ideas, like using the canvas for collision detection and html for the rendering
[15:46] bloodsucker: guigouz, exactly.
[15:46] guigouz: cool
[15:47] bloodsucker: before see this talk i was using canvas... but i was too difficul to understand it
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[15:47] bloodsucker: i am talking for about the rotation of objects, etc...
[15:48] bloodsucker: but after the talk i understood that if we use html, static, for render i was better....
[15:48] guigouz: right now I'm developing a timer library to keep states synchronized between client and server, that's why I was looking at those engine implementations
[15:48] bloodsucker: the worst think of html render is when you move and object
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[15:49] guigouz: craftyjs has the most straightforward one, I guess… the other engines have everything tight-coupled
[15:49] bloodsucker: guigouz, i am actualy development a server side demo of my project. thats how i knew node.js
[15:49] guigouz: for the server-side part I'm tied to appegine/python for now
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[15:50] bloodsucker: guigouz, i didn't start to code the server side in node.js... but i am thinkind in node.js+mootools+socket.io+mysql
[15:51] guigouz: we're targeting too many concurrent players, so mysql wasn't a choice from the beggining
[15:51] bloodsucker: guigouz, can you explain it, please?
[15:51] guigouz: it's hard to scale mysql if you have too many concurrent writes
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[15:51] bloodsucker: guigouz, :O! you are killing me by now.
[15:51] bloodsucker: xd
[15:51] bloodsucker: so what you suggest me?
[15:51] bloodsucker: don't store the data?
[15:52] bloodsucker: xD
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[15:52] guigouz: that's why there are all those "nosql" alternatives
[15:52] bloodsucker: oh, ah
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[15:52] guigouz: if I was going to start developing something new now, I'd look at www.membase.org
[15:52] bloodsucker: but i essence are the same of sql? it needs write in files too
[15:53] bloodsucker: mysql*
[15:53] context: Riak looks amazingly awesome for scaling purposes
[15:53] guigouz: i just have in-depth knowledge of google's datastore
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[15:54] bloodsucker: guigouz, context i could use mysql only when users disconnects or connects... and the other part of the time use mememory?
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[15:54] context: huh
[15:54] guigouz: bloodsucker: minimizing writes is an alternative
[15:55] guigouz: bloodsucker: it really depends on the game's needs
[15:55] bloodsucker: guigouz, ok
[15:55] bloodsucker: guigouz, membase have support for node.js?
[15:55] guigouz: if it's more single player, you could have load storage and sync that with the server (like a save game)
[15:55] Epeli: Is there a tool in Node which can copy directory trees?
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[15:55] guigouz: bloodsucker: membase uses the same protocol as memcache, so I guess so
[15:55] tjholowaychuk: Epeli: check out the modules list for "fs utils" or something
[15:55] tjholowaychuk: sure there are some
[15:56] bloodsucker: guigouz, this is everything new for me... omg
[15:56] bloodsucker: :O
[15:56] sjbreen: actually, is there an npm package for irc stuff?
[15:56] guigouz: bloodsucker: someone on a google i/o talk started his presentation by saying "scaling things is hard"
[15:56] guigouz: hehe
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[15:57] bloodsucker: guigouz, haha
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[15:57] guigouz: bloodsucker: there are some tradeoffs by using nosql technologies. you generally have to deal with aggregation functions (count, sum, and such) in code
[15:58] bloodsucker: guigouz, and my ignorance in this matter...
[15:58] bloodsucker: xD
[15:58] bloodsucker: guigouz, anyway thanks a lot for the links and suggestions.
[15:58] bloodsucker: It are too useful for me.
[15:58] bloodsucker: I will study it before start code the server side
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[15:59] bloodsucker: My engine should have "good scaling" because it is thinking to be used with a lot of concurrent users.
[15:59] bloodsucker: thats why tonight i asked about maximum memory of node.js
[15:59] guigouz: bloodsucker: good luck. everything on this world is really new, both server side nosql and client-side html5.
[16:00] bloodsucker: guigouz, thanks  a lot :)
[16:00] bloodsucker: anyway i am more happy for this new knowledges
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[16:01] guigouz: bloodsucker: they make me feel like that the world's been coding wrong for the last 15 ou 20 years =)
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[16:02] bloodsucker: guigouz, xD
[16:03] bloodsucker: i don't things why jasvascript is rediscovers this last years... and don't used in the past.
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[16:03] guigouz: bloodsucker: it's an architecture shift. more things are running on the client now.
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[16:03] bloodsucker: in fact i thought that PHP was "la rehostia" and now...!
[16:04] bloodsucker: guigouz, yes, but only in part. The real conclusion is an application is in server and client side...
[16:04] guigouz: php is still my preferred language for business solutions (basically crud), but now my server side scripts only output json, which is processed on the client.
[16:05] bloodsucker: you know someone general or rules for a communicaton between server and client using json?
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[16:05] bloodsucker: somethings*
[16:06] guigouz: basically that's defined by REST
[16:06] bloodsucker: or "do what you do want in your api"?
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[16:06] bloodsucker: ah.
[16:06] guigouz: "rest in practice" is a nice book to begin with
[16:06] bloodsucker: oh, thnaks a lot too :P
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[16:07] systemfault: guigouz: Thanks, I'll check that one. I only read the oreilly book (restful services)
[16:07] bloodsucker: An important concept in REST is the existence of resources (data items), which can be accessed using a global identifier
[16:08] bloodsucker: i think i am using rest witout know it xD
[16:08] [algo] has joined the channel
[16:08] [algo]: hello
[16:08] guigouz: bloodsucker: there's a new pattern called MVVM which should be what MVC was in the 2000s (rails and stuff)
[16:08] bloodsucker: but i will read more about this
[16:08] systemfault: REST is just a cool term to say "use HTTP"
[16:08] [algo]: how can I res.render with non-200 code in Express ?
[16:08] c4milo: bloodsucker: and it should be hypermedia driven 
[16:08] guigouz: bloodsucker: there's a nice js implementation called knockoutjs - www.knockoutjs.com
[16:08] tjholowaychuk: [algo]: res.render(whatever, { status: n })
[16:08] tjholowaychuk: or res.statusCode = n
[16:08] [algo]: tjgillies: thanks!
[16:08] guigouz: c4milo: that's it =)
[16:08] bloodsucker: thnaks another time! :P
[16:08] [algo]: (not found in docs)
[16:09] c4milo: Rest in Practice is a really good book to start with 
[16:09] bloodsucker: guigouz, i will download this book 8-) 
[16:09] c4milo: although there some things I disagree 
[16:09] bloodsucker: or check in the school library.
[16:09] bloodsucker: xD
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[16:09] [algo]: Rest in Practice
[16:10] guigouz: c4milo: REST is a theory, and there's no such thing as utopia 
[16:10] [algo]: almost Rest in Peace
[16:10] guigouz: but it's a great paradigm shift
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[16:10] bloodsucker: wikipedia is my friend
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[16:12] context: anyone here use forever? i get: TypeError: Cannot read property 'yellow' of undefined at Object.exec (/usr/local/lib64/node_modules/forever/lib/forever/cli.js:41:43) at Object.<anonymous> (/usr/local/lib64/node_modules/forever/bin/forever:185:13)
[16:12] test: why use forever?
[16:12] test: use cluster
[16:12] context: so it runs forever?
[16:13] test: use cluster for that
[16:13] context: cluster > forever?
[16:13] test: creates worker threads
[16:13] test: monitors each worker
[16:13] tjholowaychuk: processes
[16:13] context: ahh kk
[16:13] test: restarts it if a worker dies
[16:14] test: tjholowaychuk: do you agree sir?
[16:14] bloodsucker: context, one cuestions what means "kk"?
[16:14] bloodsucker: you read this by you some times
[16:14] tjholowaychuk: test: I thought forever was for generic stuff
[16:14] tjholowaychuk: not servers
[16:14] context: bloodsucker: it mans "ok" 
[16:14] context: im just too lazy to move my finger a quarter of an inch
[16:14] bloodsucker: lol for me xD
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[16:15] context: cluster requires writing code
[16:15] context: not that important right now
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[16:15] tjholowaychuk: pff a tiny bit of code
[16:15] tjholowaychuk: if you are trying to keep a server up
[16:16] tjholowaychuk: that's what cluster is designed for
[16:16] tjholowaychuk: forever seems to be for generic commands only really
[16:16] tjholowaychuk: so probably not as ideal
[16:16] tjholowaychuk: but it can be as short as cluster(server).listen(80)
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[16:16] tjholowaychuk: depending on the plugins
[16:17] brad3: Quick newbie question: How to synchronize http requests so code only will be called when they are all complete?
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[16:17] [algo]: by the way, any info about express.io ?
[16:17] [algo]: I'm using Express and Socket
[16:17] [algo]: and I'd like to use socket for making requests to express
[16:17] [algo]: (why making additional xhr if I have it)
[16:18] tjholowaychuk: no express.io info yet
[16:18] [algo]: I wonder if it will allow such thing
[16:18] [algo]:  or I have to hack express by myself
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[16:23] ChrisPartridge: [algo]: give dnode a shot
[16:23] hasta84:  Argh... issue: "
[16:23] hasta84: node: ../deps/libev/ev.c:2710: ev_timer_start: Assertion `("libev: ev_timer_start called with negative timer repeat value", w->repeat >= 0.)' failed."
[16:23] drudge: man where is w1nk when you need him
[16:23] hasta84: why does it work locally?
[16:23] [algo]: https://github.com/substack/dnode ?
[16:23] hasta84: I use the v0.4 branch of node
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[16:24] [algo]: I like Socket.IO 0.7
[16:24] [algo]: I guess DNode replaces it ?
[16:24] bloodsucker: [algo], it is the best
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[16:24] bloodsucker: DNode?�?�?
[16:24] [algo]: bloodsucker: what's the best ?
[16:24] bloodsucker: socket.io works well for me
[16:25] [algo]: 0.7 looks good really
[16:25] [algo]: 0.6 is bad
[16:25] mertonium has joined the channel
[16:25] bloodsucker: i don't know what version i am using...
[16:25] [algo]: 0.6
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[16:25] [algo]: there are many hacks around it
[16:25] guybrush: [algo]: dnode is built upon stocketio (i.e. abstraction)
[16:25] guybrush: [algo]: also checkout nowjs
[16:25] [algo]: hmmm
[16:25] guybrush: and capsule
[16:25] [algo]: eh
[16:26] [algo]: ok
[16:26] bloodsucker: i think i will stay using socket.io library....
[16:26] guybrush: also note that 0.7 is very beta, dnode at least runs with 0.6.x
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[16:28] [algo]: yes interesting
[16:28] [algo]: so much stuff that changes actively
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[16:28] guybrush: i like that :D
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[16:28] [algo]: I hate it
[16:29] [algo]: the stuff I used half-year ago is now deprecated
[16:29] guybrush: if you want to get a quick update on whats on with the whole socketio-stuff see the slides from nodeconf http://cl.ly/0B0C3f133K1m3j422n0K
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[16:30] drudge: wink_
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[16:42] clip: is it alright, to post a question that i posted on stackoverflow here?
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[16:43] clip: i'm really stuck with a project
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[16:45] stride: if you post the link and not c&p the whole text.. why not? :)
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[16:45] clip: i hope it's understandable : http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5981451/node-js-and-sockets-for-browser-and-flash
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[16:47] stride: oh, flash, not really my topic, sorry
[16:48] guybrush: use canvas :p
[16:48] stride: couldn't you just exchange the session id?
[16:48] stride: plus, you could look at the flash transport socket.io uses, I guess it's open source
[16:48] clip: yea, i don't want to use flash. but it's not my choice
[16:49] guybrush: clip maybe try to tweet the learnboostguys
[16:49] SuperPhly_ has joined the channel
[16:49] guybrush: also there is a mailinglist
[16:49] clip: and the flash transport is made for flex projects, flash doesn't have the requested librarys
[16:49] eldios: I suppose something like "ewwww, flash! fortunately it's not my topic!" could me more appropriate :P
[16:49] guybrush: http://groups.google.com/group/socket_io
[16:50] clip: ok i'll give it a try
[16:50] bloodsucker: guybrush, canvas for what?
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[16:50] stride: eldios: didn't you sign the freenode terms of service? no matter what's the topic, somebody has to mention a potentially unrelated technology within 10 minutes
[16:50] stride: :>
[16:51] bloodsucker: stride, i didn't know it
[16:51] bloodsucker: so bad
[16:51] nexxy: guys have you tried that new gum?!
[16:51] nexxy: it's sooooo delicious
[16:51] nexxy: http://www.stridegum.com/
[16:51] bloodsucker: gum?� what gum nexxy ?
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[16:51] bloodsucker: this is spam or related? xD
[16:51] nexxy: neither
[16:51] nexxy: I was getting a jump on the next 10 minutes
[16:52] nexxy: that and my IRC client is sponsored by stride gum
[16:52] nexxy: so I kind of have to or I get disconnected
[16:53] tjholowaychuk: gotta love when memoization makes things slower
[16:53] tjholowaychuk: go js go
[16:53] bloodsucker: nexxy, wtf!
[16:53] nexxy: bloodsucker, que?
[16:53] bloodsucker: are a gum sponsoring a irc client??�
[16:53] duncanbeevers: Speaking of canvas, check out this beautiful fluent interface I built around it: https://github.com/duncanbeevers/node-ContextChain/blob/master/lib/ContextChain.js
[16:53] bloodsucker: and this clients spams you?
[16:53] bloodsucker: o_O
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[16:54] nexxy: bloodsucker, it's a joke dear
[16:54] nexxy: but you ruin it when you make me explain it ;<
[16:54] arpegius has joined the channel
[16:54] bloodsucker: nexxy, so sorry xD
[16:54] nexxy: stride was telling eldios that you have to mention something off topic every 10 minutes
[16:54] bloodsucker: i don't have a gum... i just jelous
[16:54] bloodsucker: thats all
[16:54] nexxy: and stride's name makes me think of gum
[16:55] nexxy: to tell you the truth... neither do i ._.
[16:55] nexxy: it was all a sham
[16:55] bloodsucker: :O
[16:55] bloodsucker: i want a gum right now.
[16:55] nexxy: why settle for one when you can have a whole *pack*!?
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[17:01] donaldpcook: hey all...what module's everyone using for oauth2-ness?
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[17:04] hasta84: Does someone know what to do about that: node: ../deps/libev/ev.c:2710: ev_timer_start: Assertion `("libev: ev_timer_start called with negative timer repeat value", w->repeat >= 0.)' failed. ?
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[17:19] drudge: wink_: ping
[17:19] lgomez: Hello! Does everyone know how I can avoid having to pass certain variables (like user.id) to every render call? Call them globals maybe?
[17:20] lgomez: basically I need certain variables to be automatically available to every view. Using Jade btw.
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[17:23] wink_: drudge: <3
[17:23] drudge: yeaaaaah :P
[17:24] drudge: mind if i pm you (re: node-odbc)
[17:24] wink_: have at it :>
[17:24] tjholowaychuk: lgomez: read up on expressjs.com about dynamicHelpers
[17:24] tjholowaychuk: lgomez: and/or res.local[s]()
[17:24] arpegius has joined the channel
[17:25] tjholowaychuk: which you can use to set locals within middleware
[17:25] lgomez: awesome. thanks. I thnk I hust ran into it by chance.
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[17:36] stride: nexxy: meh, I've seen ads for that gum. is it really good?
[17:36] nexxy: yus
[17:36] nexxy: but it doesn't last as long as they saaay
[17:36] chjj: it never does...
[17:36] nexxy: bah dum tshh
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[17:40] aaronblohowiak: sorry for the channel spam earlier, duostack does not keep your process alive =(
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[17:51] gtramont1na: Hey tjholowaychuk, I'm having a hard time using variables inside a @keyframes... Any ideas?
[17:52] tjholowaychuk: gtramont1na: hmm can you send me a gist? I'll take a look
[17:52] gtramont1na: https://gist.github.com/969067
[17:53] cloudhead_ has joined the channel
[17:53] gtramont1na: Im using the $ as an identifier for me to know the variables in my .styl
[17:54] gtramont1na: I also tried moving the '$border-radius = 25px' to inside that @keyframes but then it doesn't even compile
[17:55] q_no has joined the channel
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[17:55] tjholowaychuk: gtramont1na: one sec ill try
[17:55] gtramont1na: tks
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[17:56] tjholowaychuk: gtramont1na: fails for me too, I'll add a test case / issue and see if I can get it fixed right away
[17:56] gtramont1na: Awesome, man... Thanks a lot!
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[18:02] tjholowaychuk: gtramont1na: quick fix, one sec
[18:02] isaacs has joined the channel
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[18:04] tjholowaychuk: 21074d762c959dcc5a846fc0788f54c3dcbdee3e fixes it
[18:04] gtramont1na: Terrific! Thanks man!
[18:04] tjholowaychuk: releasing righttttt away
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[18:05] tjholowaychuk: 0.12.4
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[18:08] wadey: isaacs: are you here?
[18:09] wadey: isaacs: I'm wondering what you think about making it possible to override npm.dir in the config
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[18:09] brianc1: ryah: why rename liboio to libuv?
[18:10] ryah: brianc1: easier to pronounce
[18:10] chjj: sounds cooler
[18:10] chjj: its like uv...except its lib
[18:10] brianc1: i thought oio sounded so cool
[18:10] isaacs: wadey: why?
[18:10] isaacs: wadey: you mean, install in a folder not called node_modules?  no chance.
[18:10] wadey: isaacs: I'm trying out using npm to make debian packages: https://github.com/simplegeo/cluster/blob/master/debian/rules#L5-7
[18:11] wadey: but I have to do an extra step to mv the folder afterworks
[18:11] gtramont1na: tjholowaychuk: Thanks for the fix dude, but I need to report another little issue. If I declare the variable inside the @keyframes, it doesn't compile.
[18:11] isaacs: wadey: that'll also break the symlinks.
[18:11] wadey: right, thats why it would be easier if I can change npm.dir
[18:11] isaacs: wadey: just accept it.  bury the node_modules folder in whatever folder debian requires you to use.
[18:11] nibblebot has joined the channel
[18:11] tjholowaychuk: gtramont1na within one of the frame blocks? or @keyframes ?
[18:11] isaacs: wadey: changing the name of node_modules is prohibitively complicated.  that assumption is everywhere in the code.
[18:12] tjholowaychuk: gtramont1na: I might have to tweak things a bit for it to work within the main @keyframes block
[18:12] isaacs: wadey: it seems like a simple thing to change.  i tried it once.  it's a Bad Idea.  it'd be a rewrite.  not happening, sorry.
[18:12] isaacs: wadey: just change the --prefix, and then set up your own symlinks.
[18:12] wadey: isaacs: yeah I understand that, but I would rather not have debian packages install to node_modules
[18:12] gtramont1na: Like this: https://gist.github.com/969111
[18:12] isaacs: wadey: then write your own npm ;)
[18:12] wadey: haha
[18:12] isaacs: wadey: srsly, that's what it woudl amount to.
[18:13] sourcode has joined the channel
[18:13] gtramont1na: tjholowaychuk: Oh. Ok.. That's not a big deal.
[18:13] isaacs: wadey: i won't accept a patch to add this functionality, either, because it will increase the maintenance cost and complexity overhead.
[18:13] tjholowaychuk: gtramont1na: I can do it no worries :D haha
[18:13] gtramont1na: tjholowaychuk: Is it expected to work?
[18:13] gtramont1na: *was
[18:13] mscdex: launch the chronoskimmer!
[18:14] tjholowaychuk: nah I know it wont right now, but I agree that it should work
[18:14] wadey: isaacs: fair enough, I understand
[18:14] isaacs: wadey: it's better to just have your debian stuff end up in /usr/local/lib/cluster/contents/{bin,lib/node_modules}
[18:14] isaacs: and then symlink to it or whatever.
[18:14] isaacs: it's cool
[18:14] wadey: isaacs: oh, I like that idea
[18:14] gtramont1na: tjholowaychuk: Cool. Thanks for the support!
[18:14] tjholowaychuk: np
[18:14] sleeplessinc has joined the channel
[18:14] isaacs: --prefix .../cluster/contents --global
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[18:15] aaronblohowiak: isaacs: are you going to be around for office hours?
[18:15] wadey: isaacs: I'll do that, thanks for the tip
[18:16] dingomanatee has joined the channel
[18:16] dingomanatee: Has anyone done SOAP with Node.js?
[18:17] yozgrahame has joined the channel
[18:17] tiemonster: 
ACTION shudders

[18:18] baudehlo: lol
[18:18] mscdex: yeah no kidding
[18:18] baudehlo: wash your mouth out. With SOAP.
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[18:18] tiemonster: Some Other $#&( Problem
[18:18] baudehlo: I guess some places still require it :-/
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[18:26] bronson: is there an easy way to view the source to a module?
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[18:27] bronson: node_open('util')
[18:27] bronson: something like that to open the source in $EDITOR?
[18:27] tjholowaychuk: npm -g edit mod
[18:27] tjholowaychuk: i think is what it was
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[18:28] bronson: tjholowaychuk, yes but that works for packages, not modules.
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[18:29] sarkis: just curious how do you guys handle trailing slashes in express.js/
[18:29] sarkis: for example if i route foo a '/foo' /foo/ doesn't resolve and likewise if you reverse that..
[18:30] tjholowaychuk: sarkis: they are implicitly optional
[18:30] tjholowaychuk:  /foo/ and /foo will route to the same callback
[18:30] sarkis: think it would be reasonable to have express.js add a / and re-run it through the routes similar to how jango does?
[18:30] tjholowaychuk: (unless you use a regexp)
[18:30] sarkis: hmmm
[18:30] sarkis: tjholowaychuk: how would you route so it doesnt matter if / is appended
[18:30] tjholowaychuk: when express constructs the regexp it's always followed by \/?
[18:30] sarkis: app.get('/foo', function(req, res){
[18:31] duncanbeevers: I think if you want both the resolve to the same thing, you should make it optional with \/?
[18:31] sarkis: oh i see
[18:31] sveimac has joined the channel
[18:31] tjholowaychuk: duncanbeevers: express does that for you
[18:31] duncanbeevers: There are some really major differences with how different browsers deal with cookie-paths depending on whether the trailing slash is present or not.
[18:31] sarkis: ok great thanks tjholowaychuk 
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[18:33] sarkis: duncanbeevers: interesting, i was thinking about making this more uniform...
[18:34] sarkis: i may just fork express.js and try this out :)
[18:34] sarkis: i basically would like to just specify /foo/ and when express runs throug the routes when i hit /foo, it will append the / and try to run through the routes again before a 404 is returned
[18:35] tjholowaychuk: the regexp does that for you lol
[18:35] tjholowaychuk: 
ACTION confused

[18:35] sarkis: so my routes would be app.get('/foo/', function(req, res){
[18:35] tjholowaychuk: why not just use app.get('/foo', ...)?
[18:35] sarkis: tjholowaychuk: so it was to duncanbeevers point of how cookiepaths are diff
[18:35] tjholowaychuk: ah
[18:36] sarkis: but i shouldnt fix something thats not broken :) ill just keep in mind that there _might_ be cookie issues depending on the /
[18:36] sarkis: and do some testing around that first
[18:36] admc1 has joined the channel
[18:36] tjholowaychuk: if that really is an issue res.cookie() would be the place to fiddle with the trailing slash
[18:36] sarkis: ah right, good point
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[18:37] duncanbeevers: sarkis: http://www.dweebd.com/javascript/cookie-path-handling-inconsistencies/
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[18:38] chjj: i blame netscape, their original cookie spec was bad city
[18:38] josephboyle: installing on Ubuntu - any hints? currently getting Could not autodetect OpenSSL support.
[18:39] Tidwell: josephboyle: install openssl with apt-get
[18:40] jgv has joined the channel
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[18:40] josephboyle: apt-get install openssl didn't fix it
[18:41] tbranyen: pkg-config?
[18:41] isaacs: aaronblohowiak: yeah, i'm in the office today
[18:41] isaacs: aaronblohowiak: berlin next week
[18:42] kmiyashiro: is forever the best tool to use to make sure a node app keeps running?
[18:42] aaronblohowiak: isaacs: the eventbrite thing said office hours are until 8, i think i can make it there by ~6.. is that too late for you?
[18:42] isaacs: aaronblohowiak: i'll be here till about 8
[18:42] chjj: sounds like it would be, forever is a long time
[18:42] Prism has joined the channel
[18:42] isaacs: aaronblohowiak: sometimes we leave early if no one shows up :)
[18:43] aaronblohowiak: isaacs: oh, ok.  well, i am coming tonight so plz wait for meeee!
[18:43] isaacs: will do!
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[18:43] halfhalo: 
ACTION bets at 6:01 isaacs will be out of there if no-one is there by then

[18:43] lukegalea has joined the channel
[18:44] aaronblohowiak: 
ACTION thinks 10 minutes early is "on time"

[18:44] lukegalea: Hey. Are folks using nvm on server deploys these days? Or only for dev?
[18:44] SubStack: 
ACTION holds a secret office hours

[18:44] SubStack: with blackjack
[18:44] SubStack: etc
[18:44] chjj: 
ACTION needs more web scale

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[18:45] Marak: rawr, peanut milk power!
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[18:48] bronson: lukegalea, what's the advantage to using nvm on a server?
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[18:48] DTrejo: 
ACTION wrote all his programs for computation linguistics javascript, just handed in the last one :)

[18:48] lukegalea: bronson: Well, it seems that every time I turn around a new version of node comes out :)
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[18:48] lukegalea: But I guess installing by hand isn't a big deal if you don't need to run multiple versions.
[18:49] lukegalea: Kinda answers my question :)
[18:49] bronson: tis true.  That's my thought too.
[18:49] lukegalea: ya. Some people run rvm on servers in the ruby world.
[18:49] lukegalea: that way you can have different environments for different apps on the same server
[18:49] brianc1: bronson: I use "n" instead of nvm
[18:49] jonasen has joined the channel
[18:50] lukegalea: brianc1: Serverside too? Or just in dev?
[18:50] brianc1: serverside as well
[18:50] lukegalea: hmm.
[18:51] bronson: 
ACTION doesn't use n just because of the ungooglable name.

[18:51] brianc1: it is highly ungoogleable
[18:51] tjholowaychuk: ahahaa
[18:51] eyez: yeah that seems a pretty poor choice for a name
[18:51] brianc1: https://github.com/visionmedia/n
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[18:51] bronson: aaronblohowiak, haml looks rockin now...  guess I'll have to use it.
[18:52] brianc1: n is nice cause it copies the executable 
[18:52] lukegalea: bronson: I dunno. Jade is pretty rockin :)
[18:52] brianc1: so no funky monkey path business 
[18:52] tjholowaychuk: brianc1: yeah I wanted to keep things simple and config-free
[18:52] brianc1: totes. "tj style"
[18:53] brianc1: all "tj style" shirts are tank-tops. simple. sleeve-free.
[18:53] tjholowaychuk: ahahahaha
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[18:53] tjholowaychuk: oh man
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[18:54] lukegalea: The reason I raised the question is that we've been just hand compiling on the server side. Wondered if there was value in using nvm or N on servers. It seems the jury is still out.
[18:54] DTrejo: brianc1: and they are see thru, b/c open source and on github
[18:54] tjholowaychuk: lukegalea: ultimately it doesnt really matter
[18:54] brianc1: it's easier to roll back to a previous version if using a version manager but is not really a large issue
[18:55] pandeiro has joined the channel
[18:55] brianc1: i mostly like it because then I don't have to remember the 5 lines it takes to update node repo & compile a new version & install it to the right path
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[18:55] tjholowaychuk: the best would be if "n" could/would check for a binary for your system and install that instead of compiling
[18:55] tjholowaychuk: i dunno maybe some day
[18:55] brianc1: and if you the new version doesn't work it's a quicker way to get back to the older version
[18:56] cjus has joined the channel
[18:56] tjholowaychuk: compiling for a deploy is a bit of a drag
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[18:57] lukegalea: thanks guys. Appreciate the input.
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[18:59] josephboyle: Still having the openssl issue with build on Ubuntu 11.04 - what should I do
[18:59] malkomalko: think we can get this channel to hit a 1000 users by the end of the year?
[19:00] bronson: ooh, jade gets rid of %.  me likey.
[19:00] malkomalko: let me talk to samson.. fly me to the moon like my friend ralph kramden
[19:00] bronson: josephboyle, what issue?  I compiled on 11.04 last night, no issues.
[19:01] josephboyle: build broken on Could not autodetect OpenSSL support
[19:01] varioust has joined the channel
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[19:01] bronson: and you have libssl-dev installed?
[19:02] josephboyle: fixed. don't think i saw the lib name in the instructions
[19:03] s0urce has joined the channel
[19:03] s0urce: wich fsstat do i need to read a file as text, and not as bite code?
[19:03] malkomalko: tjholowaychuk: what are you using to keep cluster's master process alive/and on reboot? monit/forever/something else?
[19:03] lukegalea: bronson: Ya, I really like that Jade's syntax is basically a CSS selector?
[19:03] tjholowaychuk: malkomalko: monit
[19:04] lukegalea: I didn't mean to put a question mark there ;)
[19:04] DTrejo: s0urce: fs.readFile(...).toString('utf8')
[19:04] dmcquay has joined the channel
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[19:04] malkomalko: cool
[19:04] DTrejo: s0urce: err, oopsie, just inside the callback do a toString('utf8')
[19:04] s0urce: ok, ty
[19:04] DTrejo: np
[19:05] s0urce: ah just found a better solution, but ty anyway :)
[19:05] ezl has joined the channel
[19:05] s0urce: u can call:  fs.readFile("file","utf8",[callback])
[19:06] s0urce: like middleware :)
[19:06] s0urce: btw. is fsstats productive? i plan to build my own render, and read templates with it
[19:07] baudehlo: holy carp. There's a lot more people interested in node.js than are on the mailing list...
[19:07] s0urce: what does the ready built render engines use? also fstats?
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[19:07] baudehlo: I posted about Haraka on reddit r/node and my github project doubled the number of followers overnight.
[19:07] malkomalko: mind sharing your monit file tj?
[19:08] tjholowaychuk: malkomalko: one sec
[19:08] DTrejo: s0urce: pretty much the only choice?
[19:08] malkomalko: but of course
[19:08] DTrejo: s0urce: well, i'd check out the source if I were you
[19:08] baudehlo: tjholowaychuk: any plans to make cluster able to communicate between master and workers?
[19:08] DTrejo: probably more helpful than asking her
[19:08] DTrejo: e
[19:09] s0urce: DTrejo, what do u mean? wich source?
[19:09] tjholowaychuk: baudehlo: well they already can/do
[19:09] saschagehlich: tjholowaychuk: URIError: URI malformed << in express/lib/router/index:316 - reason?
[19:09] s0urce: node precomplied?
[19:09] DTrejo: s0urce: of another template engine
[19:09] baudehlo: tjholowaychuk: arbitrarily?
[19:09] tjholowaychuk: it's not public api no
[19:09] s0urce: yeah, ofc i ll do
[19:09] s0urce: just thought mb any node expert here knows it best ;)
[19:09] s0urce: not said, that all engines are best :)
[19:10] DTrejo: hehe, agree
[19:10] baudehlo: tjholowaychuk: ah ok, so any plans to make a public api?
[19:10] sarkis has joined the channel
[19:10] tjholowaychuk: nope
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[19:11] tjholowaychuk: saschagehlich: hmm looks like something one of the built-ins is throwing
[19:11] tjholowaychuk: doesn't like your url, what is it?
[19:11] syskk: just wrote a small tutorial on writing native node.js extensions in case anyone's interested http://syskall.com/how-to-write-your-own-native-nodejs-extension
[19:11] saschagehlich: tjholowaychuk: I have no idea, some of my users send me this bug report
[19:12] saschagehlich: ah here it is
[19:12] saschagehlich: tjholowaychuk: http://s26.filsh.net/download/5gex7/Culcha%20Candela%20-%20Sch%F6ne%20neue%20Welt%20-%20The%20Greatest.mp3
[19:12] baoist has joined the channel
[19:12] Marak: syskk: nice!
[19:12] syskk: I am myself a noob but hopefully it can be a good starting point
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[19:15] baudehlo: mscdex: your patch to the node-dev list includes no doc patches. Intentional?
[19:15] mscdex: there's a link
[19:16] mscdex: oh
[19:16] mscdex: forgot docs
[19:16] mscdex: but there's tests! :-D
[19:16] cjus_ has joined the channel
[19:16] mscdex: let me recreate the patch
[19:16] jarek has joined the channel
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[19:20] boghog: it seems using a repl prompt breaks scrolling in 'screen', anyone know a workaround/fix for this?
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[19:21] tjholowaychuk: saschagehlich: apparently it doesn't like %F6
[19:21] saschagehlich: that's right
[19:21] saschagehlich: if I change it to "oe" it works fine
[19:22] tjholowaychuk: ö
[19:22] tjholowaychuk: haha
[19:22] saschagehlich: i hate umlauts
[19:22] `3rdEden: move to a different country
[19:22] `3rdEden: ;D
[19:22] tjholowaychuk: i hate languages
[19:22] tjholowaychuk: only a newb planet would have several languages
[19:22] tjholowaychuk: humans = fail
[19:22] systemfault: We're noobs.
[19:22] saschagehlich: `3rdEden: says the guy with the double vowels
[19:22] saschagehlich: tjholowaychuk: BTT!
[19:22] `3rdEden: saschagehlich :D
[19:23] systemfault: The humanity is still young IMHO
[19:23] SubStack: different niches
[19:23] SubStack: stable ecosystems tend to increase in diversity over time
[19:23] baudehlo: mscdex: sorry to be the doc nazi ;)
[19:23] saschagehlich: `3rdEden: and where "to rent" means "verhuren" which means something like "prostitute" in german
[19:23] snearch has joined the channel
[19:24] wadey: isaacs: I changed the debian build to use a symlink and put the npm folders into /usr/lib/nodejs_debian. I'm not sure about the folder name yet but the symlink works great: https://github.com/simplegeo/cluster/blob/101a1ffe56c16d5a206c21ba3cf6adfbb5ba0ad2/debian/rules#L5-7
[19:24] wadey: isaacs: I love that it is so easy to make npm do the debian packaging for me, thanks!
[19:24] `3rdEden: saschagehlich: we dutch people designed our language to be like that ;)
[19:24] wadey: isaacs: <3 npm 1.0
[19:24] SubStack: although with languages there's a lot of borrowing going on too so they're not quite the same
[19:24] saschagehlich: i love the fact that you can buy weed in the netherlands \o/
[19:25] japj: sigh
[19:25] SubStack: saschagehlich: well that is true pretty much anywhere
[19:25] `3rdEden: I love the fact that we can order brides is russia! :D
[19:25] saschagehlich: :D
[19:25] dmojoryder has joined the channel
[19:26] systemfault: A bit weird though...
[19:26] brett__ has joined the channel
[19:26] systemfault: I would expect that from some third-world country.. not russia
[19:26] saschagehlich: tjholowaychuk: so - any help? :D
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[19:28] japj: I don't see NODE_MODULE used much in native modules so far, is it a recent addition?
[19:28] japj: or is it 'optional'
[19:29] tjholowaychuk: saschagehlich: not sure why it's choking on that any hex should be fine i would imagine
[19:29] saschagehlich: don't make me rollback again :(
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[19:30] tjholowaychuk: one sec
[19:30] `3rdEden: Wow, I really suck at blogging lol
[19:30] tjholowaychuk: saschagehlich: what's that url again? I'll add a test case
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[19:31] saschagehlich: tjholowaychuk: http://s26.filsh.net/download/5gex7/Culcha%20Candela%20-%20Sch%F6ne%20neue%20Welt%20-%20The%20Greatest.mp3
[19:31] `3rdEden: I started writing my introduction post 2 hours ago, and I already typed 3 whole lines :o
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[19:32] saschagehlich: `3rdEden: do you write it in dutch?
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[19:32] tjholowaychuk: saschagehlich: apparently that should be %C3%B6
[19:32] saschagehlich: `3rdEden: writing dutch posts simply takes much more time due to the double vowels and the huge load of pot you smoke ;D
[19:32] `3rdEden: saschagehlich nope, in English or atleast it looks like english if you read pass my grammer mistakes
[19:32] tjholowaychuk: not %F6
[19:32] saschagehlich: tjholowaychuk: so urlencode it again?
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[19:35] tjholowaychuk: saschagehlich: seeing if there is a work around
[19:36] tjholowaychuk: for invalid utf8 stuff
[19:36] colinclark has joined the channel
[19:36] saschagehlich: k
[19:36] brett__: Has anyone seen a loaded node.js process intermittently fail to flush stderr when exiting on an unhandled exception?
[19:37] saschagehlich: brett__: you mean you write to stderr but it doesn't finish writing due to an exception?
[19:37] tjholowaychuk: do you know what client they were using?
[19:37] saschagehlich: tjholowaychuk: chrome
[19:37] tjholowaychuk: weird..
[19:38] tjholowaychuk: something encoded that wrong
[19:38] tjholowaychuk: hmm
[19:38] mscdex: baudehlo: patch updated ;)
[19:38] baudehlo: :-)
[19:39] brett__: saschagehlich: The exception itself is unhandled and I'm catching stderr in a log, but sometimes the process exits (I'm sure it's on that error) and yet there is no exception + stacktrace in the log.
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[19:40] saschagehlich: brett__: never heard of a behavior like that... are you sure you don't listen to the process.uncaughtException event?
[19:40] saschagehlich: v8: escape("ö")
[19:40] v8bot: saschagehlich: "%F6"
[19:40] brett__: saschagehlich: Yes, certain.
[19:40] mscdex: anyone here run node on a beagleboard? :p
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[19:41] saschagehlich: v8: encodeURIComponent("ö")
[19:41] v8bot: saschagehlich: "%C3%B6"
[19:41] saschagehlich: tjholowaychuk: I was doing it wrong, goddamnit
[19:41] saschagehlich: remember: escape() is not there for url encoding!
[19:41] tjholowaychuk: saschagehlich: oh you were using escape()?
[19:41] cjus has joined the channel
[19:41] saschagehlich: >_<
[19:41] tjholowaychuk: haha :p
[19:41] mscdex: i always use encodeURIComponent
[19:41] mscdex: there's also encodeURI too i think
[19:42] tjholowaychuk: yup
[19:42] mscdex: so many to choose from :P
[19:42] saschagehlich: yea, but wtf why did I choose escape?!
[19:42] japj: is a Persistent<FunctionTemplate> Async::constructor_template; only used when you want to allow someone else to derive from another native C++ object?
[19:42] saschagehlich: okay thanks for your help anyway tjholowaychuk
[19:42] saschagehlich: I'll buy you a beer for that embarrassing mistake.
[19:42] saschagehlich: btw, will you be at nodecamp?
[19:43] brett__: saschagehlich: Thanks, I guess I need to pare it down to a simple app that demonstrates the behavior.
[19:43] MarkMenard has joined the channel
[19:43] tjholowaychuk: nodecamp? nope
[19:43] tjholowaychuk: haven't heard of it
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[19:43] saschagehlich: brett__: yes, a reproducible piece of code would be nice
[19:43] saschagehlich: tjholowaychuk: nodecamp.eu
[19:44] tjholowaychuk: ohhh
[19:44] tjholowaychuk: i got invited to speak there but nope cant make it :(
[19:44] saschagehlich: shit :/ no beer for you!
[19:45] DTrejo: tjholowaychuk: did you ask for plane fair and honorarium ;)
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[19:45] tjholowaychuk: didnt ask for anything
[19:46] josephboyle: why is ubuntu package of node.js such an old version?
[19:46] syskk has joined the channel
[19:47] mscdex: josephboyle: i think jetienne keeps an updated package for ubuntu
[19:47] dambalah has left the channel
[19:47] mscdex: josephboyle: https://launchpad.net/~jerome-etienne/+archive/neoip
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[19:50] josephboyle: good to know!
[19:51] JacobSingh has joined the channel
[19:51] context: is bzr still slow as molasses ?
[19:52] patzak has joined the channel
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[19:53] bloodsucker: i am very loosed about modules/libraries of a project (not npm modules, MY modules/libraries). How can i program it and don't die in the try?
[19:55] hosh_work has joined the channel
[19:55] context: try different things? figure out what you like ?
[19:56] Hamms has joined the channel
[19:56] bloodsucker: context, because i am acostumated with the way of coding in the browser (most time of part using global vars). And it is totally imposible to do with node.js modules
[19:57] context: you shouldn't use global vars in any language
[19:57] bloodsucker: context, thats true.
[19:57] context: very very rarely they are needed or should be used
[19:58] context: hell even when i write C i encapsulate everything
[19:58] mertonium has joined the channel
[19:58] bloodsucker: I will try to understand better my way of making code in node.js so.
[19:58] wadey has joined the channel
[19:58] context: its not really something you are told. more figured out through practice
[19:58] context: get something going and if you cant figure it out ask for recommendations from there.
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[20:00] bloodsucker: ok! :)
[20:00] jbpros has joined the channel
[20:00] bloodsucker: For example, i am a demo/learning project in node.js with other friend (as well as my other html5 game).
[20:00] bloodsucker: it is a webchat service with commands
[20:01] tylerstalder has joined the channel
[20:02] bloodsucker: currectly we have a super-class socket-object( from socket.IO) and it have inside his mysql connection,
[20:02] sveimac has joined the channel
[20:02] bloodsucker: moreoves there a global function for call to another super-object) for "execute" a command (like /nick or /msg etc...)
[20:03] bloodsucker: what do you think about this organization? context 
[20:03] bloodsucker: Sorry for my english.
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[20:08] bloodsucker: and now i am sad XD
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[20:17] bronson: setInterval only fires from the event loop, right?  Nothing is ever interrupted?
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[20:18] tbranyen: bronson: right, its not possible to interrupt anyways
[20:18] stagas: bronson: yup
[20:18] bronson: good, that makes sense.  some weirdos had me worried.
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[20:21] syskk: https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/src/node_timer.cc#L131
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[20:28] syskk: is it a good idea to `nice` a node process so that is has high priority over other processes?
[20:29] bronson: syskk, it rarely makes a difference.
[20:29] syskk: ok
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[20:30] bronson: if the machine is truly CPU bound then you might see some benefit but that's rare.
[20:30] bronson: schedulers these days are pretty good.
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[20:30] syskk: there's something I fail to understand though. let's say you have 3 apache process and 1 node process running. aren't the 3 combined process going to eat more cpu cycles than node?
[20:31] baudehlo: depends what they are doing.
[20:31] wadey: isaacs: is there an npm command to pull out the "name" from the package.json?
[20:31] isaacs: wadey: npm view <thingie> name
[20:32] isaacs: wadey: there's a read-package-json.js script in /path/to/npm/bin, as well, which does the same sort of thing
[20:32] syskk: I'm trying to understand how the event loop is superior to multithreading 
[20:32] wadey: isaacs: is there any way to do like  "npm view . name"?
[20:32] isaacs: node read-package-json.js path/to/package.json name
[20:32] wadey: for the package.json in the current folder
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[20:32] bronson: syskk, scheduling has nothing to do with event loop vs. multithreading.
[20:32] isaacs: wadey: haven't gotten round to making that an npm command, but the above script will work if you supply the full path
[20:32] wadey: ok cool
[20:33] bronson: or, very little.  old schedulers used to care about threads but I think that's not true anymore.
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[20:33] syskk: I thought one of the advantages of the event loop was not having to fork new processes 
[20:34] bronson: over threading??
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[20:35] bronson: multiprocess != multithread...  and, as always, it depends.
[20:35] vially: i'm thinking to start writing a SOCKS client implementation for node.. something similar to socksify for ruby...  but I'm not sure how I should do this... does anyone have any idea how could something like this be done?
[20:35] aaronblohowiak: bronson: scott?
[20:35] syskk: yes I meant creating new threads
[20:35] bronson: aaronblohowiak, yo.
[20:36] c4milo: how do i know if a socket is closed?
[20:36] c4milo: is already close 
[20:36] c4milo: e
[20:36] c4milo: d
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[20:37] bronson: syskk, usually the threads are all scheduled as a single process so it doesn't matter if you spawn 2 or 20,000, the process still gets the same time slice.
[20:37] chjj: if (socket.writable) ??
[20:37] syskk: also, can node.js take advantage of multiple cores?
[20:37] aaronblohowiak: bronson: depends on the OS =(
[20:37] chjj: c4milo: most streams will have readable or writable properties
[20:37] chjj: or both
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[20:38] wink_: syskk: kinda, check out node-webworker
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[20:38] c4milo: chjj: what do you mean? 
[20:38] syskk: ok
[20:38] wink_: syskk: a single node process cannot, multiple node processes using an IPC mechanism can
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[20:39] syskk: ok
[20:39] chjj: c4milo: most stream objects will have properties to specify whether theyre currently readable/writable
[20:39] c4milo: chjj: which property for instance?
[20:39] chjj: .readable or .writable
[20:39] c4milo: chjj: does nodejs has those properties? 
[20:40] chjj: if (socket.writable) socket.end();
[20:40] c4milo: chjj: I am reviewing the documentation and I didn't find them that's why I am asking
[20:40] bronson: aaronblohowiak, true, Solaris was particularly bad back in the day.  Tends not to be an issue with more modern OSes.
[20:40] c4milo: chjj: cool thanks ! 
[20:40] bronson: Haven't played with MacOS tho...
[20:40] sridatta: in socket.io 0.7, what is a volatile message?
[20:40] `3rdEden: a message that does not need to be acknowledged by the client
[20:41] aaronblohowiak: bronson: what is the winblows behaviour with process / threading?
[20:41] syskk: wink_: does node-webworker create new threads or does it use the event loop?
[20:41] `3rdEden: basically fire and forget
[20:41] `3rdEden: sridatta ^
[20:41] wink_: syskk: it spawns new processes
[20:41] syskk: wink_: ah ok
[20:41] sridatta: oh I see. thanks
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[20:42] syskk: right, wouldn't make sense to use the event loop
[20:42] wink_: while there can be threads running (from modules doing async stuff), you're not going to know that from javascript
[20:42] syskk: ok
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[20:44] sridatta: so as of 0.7, socket.io no longer serves on top of an existing http server?
[20:45] `3rdEden: sridatta: it creates a http server if one is not given in the constructor
[20:47] addisonj_: express session is throwing this on me... any ideas? TypeError: Cannot read property 'connect.sid' of undefined
[20:49] mertonium has joined the channel
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[20:51] saschagehlich: `3rdEden: so you tried 0.7?
[20:52] `3rdEden: saschagehlich: 0.7 is not done / not workable / testcase fails :p
[20:52] `3rdEden: saschagehlich: but I can read the codes :D
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[21:04] kmiyashiro: addisonj_: gist?
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[21:09] aaronfay: ahh, that's better, nobody really in #nodejs :)
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[21:14] duncanbeevers: *55555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555-+
[21:14] duncanbeevers: For example.
[21:14] mbarnes679: ?
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[21:14] duncanbeevers: Sorry, just leaning on my keyboard.
[21:15] tim_smart: Your leaning typed "For example." :)
[21:15] kryptom has joined the channel
[21:15] mbarnes679: that's some coordinated leaning
[21:15] duncanbeevers: I have weird elbows.
[21:15] duncanbeevers: For example.
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[21:18] aaronblohowiak: wow
[21:18] aaronblohowiak: yes
[21:18] aaronblohowiak: you win
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[21:24] tladuke: i just installed node and npm on a new machine and get a : TypeError: Object [object Object] has no method 'prefixWithMiddleware'
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[21:25] tladuke: am i missing a module? i've only install connect, socket.io, socket.io-connect
[21:26] aaronblohowiak: tladuke: when do you get that error?
[21:27] bronson: Anyone have a real-world example of when process.nextTick is useful?
[21:27] tladuke: running the connect examples
[21:27] tladuke: socket.io-connect examples
[21:28] aaronblohowiak: oh
[21:28] aaronblohowiak: bronson: when you want to do work outside of the req/res cycle
[21:28] mikegerwitz: bronson: To split up a long/intensive operation. For example, processing a large set of data.
[21:28] mjr_: bronson: it comes up a lot if you need to emit something from an event handler.
[21:29] saschagehlich: `3rdEden: how did you get the test suite of 0.7 running?
[21:29] `3rdEden: saschagehlich: fix the submodules :p
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[21:29] baudehlo: sweet, so with actually doing some fairly impressive processing on the email I can get 3000 emails/sec out of Haraka.
[21:29] tim_smart: bronson: You can use it to break up computation, so your process doesn't block as much on long running CPU bound code
[21:29] saschagehlich: `3rdEden: I did, but why do the test suites require "socket.io" without an absolute path?
[21:29] `3rdEden: saschagehlich: https://github.com/3rd-Eden/Socket.IO-node/blob/master/.gitmodules
[21:29] saschagehlich: or at least a relative path
[21:30] tim_smart: bronson: Even though putting that in a new process is probably more ideal
[21:30] tladuke: come on IRC...
[21:30] `3rdEden: saschagehlich: no clue
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[21:30] bronson: tim_smart, right, that's my thought...  it's hard to picture a scenario where nextTick is the best solution.
[21:30] tim_smart: bronson: I use it in my redis client
[21:30] stagas: bronson: having a loop where you check 'is this done?' no -> process.nextTick(check_again) so you let other stuff run in between
[21:30] sveimac has joined the channel
[21:31] tim_smart: So I can cut down on socket writes
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[21:31] bronson: stagas, tim_smart: those make sense.  thanks.
[21:31] tim_smart: bronson: https://github.com/Tim-Smart/node-redis/blob/master/index.js#L244
[21:32] tim_smart: It adds stuff to a chunk, and if it doesn't go pass the chunk limit, the nextTick makes sure it eventually gets written
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[21:33] bronson: tim_smart, did you measure an improvement with that?
[21:33] bronson: seems like with buffering and corking, the kernel kinda does that already.
[21:33] tim_smart: bronson: corking is done at user level
[21:33] lbod: 5 times as many people here than in dojo... noice
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[21:33] tim_smart: node doesn't do it yet, I think libuv might tackle that
[21:34] tim_smart: ryah: Is writev etc going to be revisited after libuv?
[21:35] tjholowaychuk: isn't that the point of nagle?
[21:36] malkomalko: tjholowaychuk: if you remember (don't worry if you forget) could you post up a public gist of an example of your monit config.. if not no worries, I have to run
[21:36] tim_smart: bronson: To answer your question, with the smaller operations, speed can be up to 10x faster. For larger operations working with binary, it made it a little slower.
[21:36] malkomalko: danke!
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[21:36] bronson: tjholowaychuk, yes.  CORK is basically turning on nagle for a socket.
[21:37] tjholowaychuk: gotcha
[21:38] bronson: tim_smart, yow, more than I would have expected.
[21:39] tim_smart: bronson: Yeah, some ops went from 50k/s to 100k+/s on my tests
[21:39] flippyhead has joined the channel
[21:39] tim_smart: I guess saving calls into C++ was the big win
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[21:41] wink_: syscalls are still expensive, nagle is meant to save the wire, it wont do anything to reduce userland -> kernel overhead
[21:43] syskk: I'm writing my models as modules in separate files: i.e. post.js author.js , etc.
[21:43] syskk: each model uses redis (var redis = require('redis').createClient();)
[21:43] syskk: I was just wondering if there'd be a way to share the same redis object for all models
[21:44] tim_smart: syskk: Create a shared module that exports a initialized client
[21:44] ryah: tim_smart: libuv uses writev
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[21:45] ryah: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/blob/2ef3c6c6320eb7845068fae8aadc4f7188dd1b9a/uv-unix.c#L523
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[21:45] tim_smart: ryah: Oh cool. But I guess that still wouldn't address the issue of multiple js write() calls making multiple C++ API calls?
[21:46] syskk: tim_smart: not sure I get it. how can it always return the same client? how do I persist the object on every require()?
[21:46] tim_smart: syskk: I'll make a gist
[21:46] syskk: tim_smart: great :)
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[21:48] bloodsucker: syskk, ithere are a way
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[21:49] tim_smart: syskk: https://gist.github.com/545b71835935430a7788
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[21:51] syskk: doesn't 'redis.createClient(options)' return a new redis client at each require('common.js') ?
[21:51] chjj: no
[21:51] chjj: require is cached
[21:51] tim_smart: syskk: exports are cache ^
[21:51] syskk: ah!
[21:51] tim_smart: cached*
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[21:51] syskk: cool
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[21:52] chjj: i always wondered how bad you could screw things up if you did module.__defineGetter__(
[21:52] chjj: 'exports'
[21:52] chjj: etc
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[21:53] syskk: so required files are only executed once right
[21:53] chjj: yeah
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[21:54] chjj: they would be pretty hard to manage if they werent
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[21:56] syskk: right
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[21:57] NetDooh: We are using net server.listen() and sending a test of 1000 TCP messages a second. The problem we think, is that the buffer is probably filling faster than the write command is flushing. The result, is that ondata does not contain a single message, but in fact multiple.
[21:58] bronson: NetDooh, tcp is a streaming protocol.  Sounds like you expect it to go in chunks?
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[21:59] NetDooh: Humm, so, do we need to terminate messages? How do we do this, if we don't control the client messages
[21:59] bronson: Yeah, you need some sort of protocol.
[21:59] bronson: Routers are free to fragment and join packets however they want.
[22:00] NetDooh: So, how is this usually worked out. We are listening for incoming packets, of various formats
[22:00] bronson: Today is repeated word day today.  Word.
[22:00] boghog: fragmented tcp packets get joined in the OS tcp stack though, so that kind of splitting/joining isn't somethng you end up seeing at the application level, or am I wrong?
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[22:01] boghog: i've actually never really understood this about tcp
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[22:02] boghog: and also how nagle's algorithm affects this
[22:02] bronson: NetDooh, what do you mean packets and formats?  UDP is by packet, TCP is by connection.
[22:03] aaronfay: sometimes when I run my files from the command line, node just fails silently.  I have a handler that is suppost to log uncaught exceptions, but I'm not seeing anything
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[22:04] bronson: boghog, true, usually you'll see big packets.  But you can't guarantee it.
[22:04] bronson: It'll just show up as short reads from the socket layer.
[22:04] boghog: ah
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[22:04] bronson: Nagle's for outgoing but, yeah, it's meant to convert 10 10-byte writes into a 100 byte packet.
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[22:05] aaronfay: In this case, the function I was calling was missing, but node failed to report the problem, it just .. stopped
[22:06] boghog: NetDooh, anyway for an IRC client I just parsed individual lines terminated with \r\n out of a data event, and if there was any leftover data, I save it to prepend to the next data chunk that arrives
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[22:07] tbranyen: ryah: is there a node.js twitter account
[22:07] tbranyen: ?
[22:09] tbranyen: would be awesome to get a rt even from you for: http://twitter.com/#!/tbranyen/status/68799688635187202
[22:09] tbranyen: or from any bostonians :D
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[22:11] bronson: Strange that the http module as error events rather than the first parameter of the callback.
[22:11] bronson: Any reason for the difference?
[22:11] syskk: would love a RT as well :) http://twitter.com/#!/olivierll/status/68735835293495296
[22:11] tbranyen: syskk: nice
[22:11] tbranyen: i've been meaning to write that same article
[22:11] tbranyen: :D
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[22:12] syskk: eh eh go ahead, competition is always good :)
[22:12] syskk: I'm still a noob, this is really for beginners
[22:12] tbranyen: syskk: there are a few other ones out there and i feel everyone has their own style
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[22:16] NetDooh: @Bronson, so we have 
[22:17] NetDooh: @Bronson, so we don't have any control over incoming messages, and the client socket. All we have is the net server.listen()
[22:17] xeodox: In Node.js, how can I get the 'public DNS' of the EC2 instance? If I do "os.getNetworkInterfaces()"....I only get Amazon's private IP, but not their public DNS.  How? 
[22:18] bronson: NetDooh, there must be a way to split the incoming data back into packets.
[22:18] bronson: For instance, HTTP separates headers with \r\n.  No matter what size packets you receive, you can always reassemble the headers.
[22:19] NetDooh: @Bronson, we don't have control, how can we spilt the data. The incoming data is from devices, sensors, guages, etc, not HTTP
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[22:19] bronson: NetDooh, right, they must use some sort of protocol.
[22:19] NetDooh: There is no way to terminate messages.
[22:19] bronson: Sending 12\n13\n14\n
[22:19] bronson: If they sent "121314" that would be crazy.
[22:20] NetDooh: Ok, yeah they are TCP, so there is a header
[22:20] NetDooh: Whats the easy way to split on this
[22:21] mscdex: you have to know how the incoming data is structured first
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[22:21] mscdex: if there are no delimiters
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[22:22] NetDooh: There is no way to simply say, don't stick multiple messages into a buffer. Sorry, if that is a stupid question.
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[22:23] slickplaid: has anyone done a lot of work with html5 video in node.js? Looking to start a project with html5/flash video using node.js in the mix. Any suggestions for information on previous projects current or abandoned?
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[22:23] bronson: NetDooh, TCP is a single stream.  You can guarantee bytes arrive in a certain order but that's it.
[22:24] bronson: You can't guarantee how many will arrive at once.
[22:26] NetDooh: @Bronson Ok, think I undestand better now. Going to look at the raw packet and try to figure out where each packet starts and stops
[22:26] bronson: NetDooh, excellent
[22:26] mscdex: NetDooh: maybe there is documentation of the format on the internet already, depending on what it is you're parsing
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[22:27] tjholowaychuk: NetDooh: take a look at some existing projects that support stream parsing
[22:28] tjholowaychuk: redis/nedis etc
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[22:33] jaequery: hi guys
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[22:35] xeodox: In Node.js, how can I get the 'public DNS' of the EC2 instance? If I do "os.getNetworkInterfaces()"....I only get Amazon's private IP, but not their public DNS.  How?
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[22:36] konobi: can't you just request that information from a special URL?
[22:37] xeodox: I guess I could use the Amazon EC2 Api, and cache it
[22:37] xeodox: Run a script to get the public dns'es and match them to the instances then cache it
[22:38] xeodox: but seems silly. was lookign for an instant, easy way lol
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[22:39] konobi: http://docs.amazonwebservices.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/index.html?AESDG-chapter-instancedata.html
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[22:41] xeodox: wow
[22:42] xeodox: konobi: seems like the right path. reading it now
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[22:43] a|i: what's a good way of sharing a model with rails and node?
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[22:44] dkasper: node.js office hours?
[22:45] tim_smart: a|i: You will have to manually write sql queries or w/e backend you are using
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[22:46] tim_smart: Unless you feel like writing a ActiveRecord client for node
[22:46] tim_smart: :)
[22:46] xeodox: konobi: that works , I think, thanks!
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[22:49] a|i: tim_smart: how about rails and node sharing redis?
[22:49] beriberikix: Anyone know how to pretty-print in Express?
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[22:50] tim_smart: a|i: Node has a few redis clients, but again, I don't think there is a unified ORM for them both
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[23:13] xeodox: If I want to run a  request({uri:blah},function(err,res,body){ ..... } );    but I want this to block, what do I do?
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[23:17] tim_smart: xeodox: Why do you want it to block?
[23:18] tim_smart: Generally in that case you don't use Node
[23:18] xeodox: I see
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[23:18] xeodox: damit then I gotta rewrite everything lol
[23:19] tim_smart: Also, if you wanted it to block, why give it a callback? ;)
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[23:22] bronson: xeodox, why do you want it to block?
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[23:24] wadey: isaacs: Thanks for the help earlier, I have the basics of a debhelper script for node.js working: https://github.com/simplegeo/nodejs-pkg-tools
[23:25] wadey: isaacs: will  help a lot as we package all of our libraries up in .deb packages before deploying to production.
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[23:28] isaacs: wadey: nice
[23:28] wadey: i remember chatting with you and ryah about doing this when I came to the office hours a few weeks ago, so glad to see it was so easy to implement.
[23:30] chjj: xeodox: you dont want that to block ;)
[23:34] bronson: How's it going in the Joyent office hours?
[23:34] isaacs: bronson: chatting about databases.
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[23:35] bronson: right on.  which one is the winner?
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[23:40] isaacs: bronson: mostly chatting about how awesome riak is
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[23:41] bronson: 
ACTION mental note: look closer at riak

[23:42] bronson: All I know about Riak is they're against giving away coffee cups...
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[23:45] gf3: tjholowaychuk: holla
[23:45] tjholowaychuk: heyhey
[23:45] gf3: tjholowaychuk: have you checked out PanPG? https://github.com/azatoth/PanPG
[23:45] tjholowaychuk: glanced at it
[23:45] gf3: tjholowaychuk: it's the PEG library I use for parsing my IRC junk
[23:45] slickplaid: has anyone done a lot of work with html5 video in node.js? Looking to start a project with html5/flash video using node.js in the mix. Any suggestions for information on previous projects current or abandoned?
[23:46] gf3: tjholowaychuk: https://github.com/gf3/IRC-js/blob/master/lib/irc.peg
[23:46] tjholowaychuk: gf3: I wrote a quick one day lib called "descent" probably not as feature rich but hey
[23:46] qcom: hey tj, how has nib been going?
[23:46] tjholowaychuk: I use a kinda ebnf / peg hybrid though because I dont like arrows
[23:46] tjholowaychuk: haha
[23:47] tjholowaychuk: more like leg(1)
[23:47] tjholowaychuk: qcom: pretty good
[23:47] gf3: tjholowaychuk: oh neat, I'd love to check it out
[23:47] tjholowaychuk: gf3: on sec I'll show you the gist
[23:47] tjholowaychuk: I didnt implement memoization yet
[23:47] tjholowaychuk: because it slowed things down by about 50%
[23:47] tjholowaychuk: haha
[23:47] tjholowaychuk: which .. is funny
[23:47] gf3: ...wait... haha
[23:48] tjholowaychuk: js is not the right language to parse things with
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[23:49] gf3: tjholowaychuk: indeed, but js is fun
[23:49] tjholowaychuk: totally
[23:49] tjholowaychuk: woah the output from that one is interesting haha
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[23:49] tjholowaychuk: will have to give it a try
[23:50] tjholowaychuk: gf3: example output from mine https://gist.github.com/06f3bea286d2f834261d
[23:50] tjholowaychuk: with debugging enabled
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[23:50] tjholowaychuk: wanted something closer to what you would write by hand since LR(1) is no fun to debug
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[23:51] gf3: oh neat, the syntax is somewhat js-y
[23:51] tjholowaychuk: it's very similar to leg(1)
[23:52] tjholowaychuk: foo = 'bar' | 'baz' instead of foo <- 'bar' / 'baz'
[23:52] tjholowaychuk: etc
[23:52] tjholowaychuk: or ':' in that case
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[23:52] gf3: mhmm
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[23:55] tjholowaychuk: oddly without memoization it's about 25% faster than pegjs
[23:55] tjholowaychuk: and about 150% less code
[23:55] tjholowaychuk: so it's a bit easier to step through with a debugger or w/e
[23:56] tjholowaychuk: or just to look at
[23:56] bronson: 150% less code?  WOW.
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