[00:00] isaacs: qschzt: yes.  it's a couchapp.  send me an email, i'll hook you up with access to 5984
[00:00] isaacs: qschzt: then you can set up regular couch replication
[00:00] qschzt: okay. thanks
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[00:03] tiboll: mikeal: ok thx for the advice ;)
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[00:07] _announcer: Twitter: ""No Callbacks, No Threads & Ruby 1.9" by @igrigorik http://is.gd/e81FH Mmm async rails. #ruby #nodejs" -- Sean Porter. http://twitter.com/portertech/status/20587298402
[00:10] isaacs: ok, everyone who just tried out npm update and saw it fail:  curl http://npmjs.org/install.sh | sh
[00:12] aniero: shoot, is there no error when a net.Stream is closed from the remote side?
[00:14] mscdex: aniero: listen for the 'end' event on net.Stream?
[00:15] creationix: want to know something funny
[00:15] _announcer: Twitter: "#freelance #HTML #CSS #job - Javascript Guru Needed to setup Node.js Web Server on EC2, PSD... ($16/hr) - http://donanza.com/t/1940323..." -- DJ Hennion. http://twitter.com/carbide25/status/20587740140
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[00:15] mscdex: creationix: async ruby?
[00:15] mscdex: :-D
[00:15] creationix: when I have bad migraines I think in node
[00:15] aniero: mscdex: i'll try it
[00:16] mape: isaacs: why not npm install npm?
[00:16] creationix: mscdex: nah, that's just event machine
[00:16] aniero: mscdex: oh, rgh, duh
[00:16] aniero: mscdex: ahh thanks
[00:17] qschzt: isaacs, yeah that installed
[00:17] mscdex: aniero: np
[00:17] aniero: hmm, the mongo driver doesn't keep track of that happening. nyrrgh
[00:17] qschzt: npm ! ReferenceError: semver is not defined
[00:17] qschzt: npm failed to update expresso@0.6.1 eyes@0.1.6
[00:17] qschzt: expresso-0.6.1 failed safety check
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[00:19] qschzt: again seems to be because of http-console, which I never used anyway
[00:19] qschzt: npm ok.
[00:20] qschzt: hmm i don't think it's quite right, perhaps running it twice fixed the problem
[00:23] qschzt: pastebin.ca is broken, pastie.org is broken
[00:23] qschzt: ah there it is. nvm
[00:23] _announcer: Twitter: "In parallel flows require best not to put # nodejs" [ru] -- Vova Bilonenko. http://twitter.com/delfrrr/status/20588198968
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[00:31] daleharvey: ok, this is a bit harsh, but I got really sick of restarting node
[00:31] daleharvey: http://gist.github.com/513393
[00:31] tmpvar: anyone using websockets with connect?
[00:31] tmpvar: daleharvey, haha
[00:32] _announcer: Twitter: "loving node.js, but really sick of restarting this server, http://gist.github.com/513393 YMMV" -- Dale Harvey. http://twitter.com/daleharvey/status/20588695123
[00:32] daleharvey: heh, thats bit scary
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[00:38] mscdex: ;-)
[00:39] tmpvar: ls
[00:39] tmpvar: blarg
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[00:39] mscdex: ls: cannot access blarg: No such file or directory
[00:41] tmpvar: whats up mscdex 
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[00:47] ryah: isaacs: you should give a npm tutorial at the meetup next week
[00:48] isaacs: ryah: good idea
[00:48] _announcer: Twitter: "My new pet project is out: http://github.com/dachev/node-sizzle. You can now parse HTML tag soup in node.js and run sizzle selectors." -- Blagovest Dachev. http://twitter.com/blago/status/20589615119
[00:51] tmpvar: ah, thats a good point.. i should run unit tests against sizzle + jsdom
[00:51] _announcer: Twitter: "slowly but surely sussing the ins-and-outs of http://nodejs.org and http://expressjs.com. Baby steps. #fb" -- Dan McGinn-Combs. http://twitter.com/dgcombs/status/20589776368
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[00:54] tk: does _announcer try to tarnslate tweets? I've seen several today that make no sense....
[00:54] tmpvar: yep
[00:55] tmpvar: it will give you the source language like.. [es]
[00:55] tk: terrible idea... none of the online translator api's do much more than literal translations...
[00:55] tk: at least I've never found a good one when I needed one
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[00:59] tk: how you been tmpvar?
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[01:33] Tim_Smart: Ruby Fibres seem interesting.
[01:33] Tim_Smart: Probably a bit too magic for my liking though.
[01:33] Tim_Smart: *bit too much
[01:34] Tim_Smart: ( http://www.igvita.com/2010/03/22/untangling-evented-code-with-ruby-fibers/ )
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[02:05] _announcer: Twitter: "Seriously, if NodeJS/Ruby fibers seem neat to you, head over to http://bit.ly/dCqcnQ to get your mind blown." -- Eva . http://twitter.com/evalee6/status/20594224665
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[02:29] daleharvey: does anyone use a naming convention for their javascript?
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[02:30] daleharvey: right now I am calling node.stuff.js for node files, I want a name for browser js files, and then x.js arent specific
[02:31] ryan_gahl: i use something.server.js and something.client.js
[02:32] daleharvey: sounds good, cheers
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[02:56] jashkenas: 'evening, folks. Does anyone know what the "standard" is for Node command-line arguments to accept multiple values?   For example:    "cmd -r one.js -r two.js"   versus    "cmd -r one.js,two.js"   ... ?
[02:57] matt_c: jashkenas: I'm not sure if there's anything built in, but you might find http://github.com/jfd/optparse-js useful.
[02:58] jashkenas: matt_c: thanks. I'll take a look. I've already got an option parser: http://jashkenas.github.com/coffee-script/documentation/docs/optparse.html   --- I was just wondering about the behavior.
[03:01] matt_c: I think I've seen it both ways in other languages so there may not be a clear answer.
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[03:01] jashkenas: ok, matt_c: then which do you prefer?
[03:02] matt_c: repeating -r one.js -r two.js means not having to do further parsing (split on comma, etc) so I'd probably go that route myself.
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[03:06] jesusabdullah: I think -r -r sounds most right to me
[03:06] jashkenas: thanks.
[03:07] jesusabdullah: *nod*
[03:16] wattz: what a night
[03:16] wattz: this is a really fun error -lMagickWand: linker input file unused because linking not done
[03:17] wattz: because linking not done... -_-
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[04:10] _announcer: Twitter: "Things I learned from my Node.js experiment - http://su.pr/7KMeZ4" -- eBot. http://twitter.com/kicauan/status/20602101174
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[04:37] _announcer: Twitter: "node.js easy enough to quit your job that you do not check the version upgrade" [ja] -- KOBA789(こば). http://twitter.com/KOBA789/status/20603740618
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[04:43] _announcer: Twitter: "Check this video out -- Node.js: JavaScript on the Server http://youtu.be/F6k8lTrAE2g" -- David May. http://twitter.com/wasser/status/20604070645
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[05:05] littlebir: hey guys, i was wondering if i could use node.js on a big production site
[05:06] littlebir: if i run it `node app.js` , and needed to modify a page, i would have to stop the process and start it again.
[05:06] littlebir: Is it possible to modify while node is still running
[05:06] littlebir: or wouldn't you recommend this on a production site just yet
[05:08] mjr_: Opinions differ on how production-ready node is
[05:08] mjr_: You certainly have to be very comfortable with node's limitations.
[05:09] mjr_: Such as the one you mentioned, although you can work around that in a number of ways.
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[05:11] littlebir: hmm
[05:11] konobi: ryah: how goes?
[05:16] ryah: konobi: good - you
[05:16] ryah: ?
[05:16] ryah: littlebir: possible? yes - not for end users 
[05:17] littlebir: darn
[05:17] ryah: in the coming months we'll hav that
[05:18] ryah: 
ACTION is half-way through his major http-parser refactor

[05:18] mjr_: woah, why?
[05:19] mjr_: Seems like the http parser is pretty rockin
[05:19] ryah: this is the new interface:
[05:19] ryah: size_t http_parser_execute2(http_parser *parser, const char *data, size_t data_len, http_parser_ptr ptrs[], int ptrs_len)
[05:19] ryah: no callbacks
[05:19] ryah: it just fills an array with pointers to data
[05:20] mjr_: calling back from C to C++ to JS was too crazy?
[05:20] ryah: probably marginally faster (keep those registers hot)
[05:20] ryah: but also so that i can "buffer" events
[05:21] ryah: for this problem where people req.pause() but still get the first body chunk
[05:21] mjr_: oh right, that old chestnut.
[05:21] konobi: ryah: not bad... just about the tuck into the K&R book again
[05:21] mjr_: It really is what people are expecting to happen, so we might as well do it that way.
[05:21] ryah: yeah - less js to c++ calls
[05:22] mjr_: I was playing with the python DTrace probes the other day.  
[05:22] mjr_: Summary: holy shit
[05:22] ryah: oh man
[05:22] mjr_: Can we expect this kind of magic in node at some point in the future?
[05:22] ryah: yes
[05:23] ryah: want to get them deep into v8
[05:23] mjr_: oh wow
[05:23] mjr_: That'd be even awesome-r
[05:23] mjr_: But I'd be happy with just some in node.
[05:23] ryah: yeah then pop those into eventsource
[05:24] mjr_: It's almost as if you saw this coming.
[05:24] ryah: so it should be really nice
[05:24] mjr_: With the eventsource thing I mean
[05:24] ryah: but it'll take a while, i think
[05:24] ryah: joyent has been long-time dtrace fans
[05:25] mjr_: Being able to instrument a live system is such a game changer that I can't even believe it.
[05:25] mjr_: It's making me completely rethink using Linux, even though Linux is so well supported.
[05:26] mscdex: node.js rules!
[05:26] ryah: yeah. linux really needs it.
[05:26] ryah: and zfs.
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[05:26] konobi: mjr_: just imagine doing it with kernel cpu on-off, system calls and things like file opens by low level libraries, etc.
[05:27] mjr_: Yeah, I've imagined it.  And now I want it.
[05:27] ryah: sticking dtrace probes into http-parser might be an easy win
[05:28] konobi: ryah: yeah, that'd be pretty awesome
[05:28] mjr_: Things never get slow in production the way they get slow in the lab.
[05:28] konobi: mjr_: did you watch bryan (cantrill's) google talk about dtrace?
[05:28] mjr_: konobi: yeah, it was a real eye-opener.
[05:28] mjr_: I watched it last week.
[05:28] konobi: nice
[05:29] mjr_: I've spent a lot of time doing performance tuning on Linux machines, and I had no idea what I was missing.
[05:29] ryah: mjr_: http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2010/7/95062-visualizing-system-latency/fulltext#F1
[05:29] ryah: mjr_: in particular the diagrams http://deliveryimages.acm.org/10.1145/1790000/1785435/figs/f2.jpg
[05:30] mjr_: uhhh, what?
[05:30] mjr_: Are those mystic runes?
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[05:33] iheartnodejs: :-D
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[05:50] Sam_: What arguments does Array.prototype.forEach apply to the callback function?
[05:52] Sam_: does it pass in the index as well as the value?
[05:53] SubStack: yes
[05:53] SubStack: Sam_: second value
[05:53] SubStack: also the third argument is the whole list
[05:53] SubStack: 
ACTION just found that out

[05:53] Sam_: Cool thanks
[05:54] SubStack: > 'a b c'.split(' ').forEach(function () { console.log(sys.inspect([].slice.call(arguments))) })
[05:55] Sam_: Is the source for the function available?
[05:55] SubStack: deep in the bowels of v8
[05:55] Sam_: argh
[05:57] mscdex: Sam_: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Core_JavaScript_1.5_Reference/Objects/Array/forEach
[05:57] mscdex: Sam_: you'll find a lot of other ES5 stuff that's in V8 there
[05:57] Sam_: ES5?
[05:58] micheil: ECMAScript 5
[05:58] _announcer: Twitter: "A wonderfully to-the-point comparison of PHP/Apache vs. Node.js: http://bit.ly/c4RjzL" -- KW. http://twitter.com/oerhoert/status/20608263550
[05:58] Sam_: Oh
[05:58] micheil: which, iirc, is also the 5th edition of the ECMA 262 specification
[05:58] mscdex: Sam_: in other words, whatever you find here: http://wiki.github.com/ry/node/ecma-5mozilla-features-implemented-in-v8
[05:58] mscdex: Sam_: you can find examples on that mozilla site
[05:59] Sam_: mscdex: thanks
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[06:00] Sam_: sweet: Array.isArray
[06:01] Sam_: no more:  typeof arg.join=="function"
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[06:11] _announcer: Twitter: "The archive download server github from Node.js appears that the Ruby + Sinatra replaced by the implementation. I introduced steadily increasing number of achievements. http://bit.ly/cCMPzI" [ja] -- 西山 雄也/Nishiyama Yuya. http://twitter.com/nsyee/status/20608937352
[06:12] mikeal: that is not english
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[06:34] konobi: ryah: btw, is that issue valid or should i kill it?
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[07:05] _announcer: Twitter: "http machine debugging for the company brewed node.js. . . At least have the capacity to feel it." [ja] -- Yohei Sasaki. http://twitter.com/yssk22/status/20611473201
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[07:07] polotek: can anyone point me at a good script that attempts to bring most browsers up to es5 compatibility?
[07:08] justin_: i'm building a binding between zeromq and node, and i'm just starting on the libev integration
[07:08] justin_: thing is, 0mq doesn't have file descriptors exposed to developers
[07:08] polotek: justin_: cool, was looking into that before
[07:08] polotek: but I don't really like the zeromq C api
[07:08] polotek: justin_: exactly
[07:09] justin_: so, does anybody know if it's possible to just get a callback on every tick so i can use their poll function?
[07:09] polotek: justin_: you'll have to use eio_custom I think
[07:09] polotek: pass it into a thread and wait
[07:10] polotek: a callback on every tick would be a lot of overhead I think
[07:10] justin_: polotek: true... what do you mean by pass it into a thread and wait?
[07:10] polotek: using eio_custom you can start a thread that blocks and waits on the 0mq listener
[07:11] polotek: essentially eio_custom lets you call your function in a background thread in node
[07:11] justin_: alright, makes sense
[07:11] polotek: and when some event happens, set a callback that goes back into the main event loop
[07:12] justin_: yeah, that would work
[07:12] polotek: justin_: be aware though that eio has a minimum of threads
[07:12] polotek: 4 in fact
[07:12] polotek: if you're taking up one waiting on 0mq
[07:12] polotek: other disk io will suffer
[07:13] polotek: however, I'm working on surfacing a setting that'll allow you to up that number of threads
[07:13] justin_: polotek: that would be great
[07:13] mscdex: polotek: what about underscore.js?
[07:14] mscdex: dunno if that has all the es5 methods though
[07:14] polotek: mscdex: that's what I'm using now.
[07:14] mscdex: oh
[07:14] polotek: it's awesome
[07:14] justin_: agreed, underscore rocks socks
[07:14] polotek: but I wanted to compare it to a script that tries to "unify" the environments
[07:14] polotek: so you can just write plain js
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[07:16] polotek: es5 is pretty awesome
[07:16] polotek: but currently crippled by browser adoption
[07:17] polotek: We need to start a movement man
[07:17] polotek: publish a list of modern browsers with good support.  write modern code for them
[07:17] polotek: use some compatibility scripts to try and include IE and such
[07:18] polotek: but if it doesn't work, tough shit
[07:18] polotek: justin_: http://github.com/pkrumins/node-async
[07:18] polotek: good example module for how to use eio_custom
[07:19] justin_: polotek: badass, thanks
[07:19] jesusabdullah: 
ACTION wishes he knew enough c++ to do interesting things :(

[07:20] mscdex: polotek: here's a project: http://code.google.com/p/ddr-ecma5/
[07:21] polotek: jesusabdullah: before getting into node I hadn't touched C since college.
[07:21] polotek: I quickly remember why that is ;)
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[07:21] jesusabdullah: Haha XD
[07:21] pkrumins: node-async ^_^
[07:22] jesusabdullah: polotek: I saw maybe a quarter of C++, and it was extremely basic as it was a "programming for engineers" class
[07:22] polotek: mscdex: word, thanks
[07:22] jesusabdullah: Back then it was a quarter of trivial C++, then a quarter of trivial fortran
[07:22] jesusabdullah: Now it's a quarter of trivial C++ and a quarter of matlab
[07:22] polotek: hehe, matlab is actually awesome
[07:23] polotek: not for teaching good CS
[07:23] polotek: but for what it's good at, it rocks
[07:23] mscdex: polotek: it seems to be missing a few functions though: Array.isArray, String.trimLeft, and String.trimRight.
[07:23] polotek: mscdex: yep, was noticing that
[07:23] mscdex: those shouldn't be hard to implement though
[07:23] polotek: checking the license
[07:23] polotek: may just use it as a base for my own
[07:23] polotek: add the missing stuff
[07:24] polotek: sweet MIT
[07:24] polotek: actually it's been touched fairly recently
[07:24] polotek: could probably just get a bunch of stuff contributed
[07:25] polotek: the compatibility table on the home page is awesome
[07:25] polotek: that's what I actually need
[07:25] polotek: but fully fleshed out
[07:25] mscdex: lol there's an es5 implementation for pascal/delphi
[07:25] mscdex: polotek: have you seen this? http://kangax.github.com/es5-compat-table/
[07:25] polotek: mscdex: ummmm, pass
[07:26] polotek: nope
[07:26] polotek: you're 2 for 2 my good man
[07:27] polotek: So es5 doesn't actually include the new syntax extensions
[07:27] polotek: array comprehensions, generators, etc
[07:27] polotek: is that right?
[07:27] mscdex: no idea
[07:28] mscdex: i just know about the getter setter syntax thing
[07:28] polotek: hehe, I've got a pdf of the spec sitting on my desktop
[07:28] polotek: 
ACTION stops being lazy and opens it

[07:28] mscdex: and "use strict"
[07:29] mscdex: at least ie9 is going to have full support for es5 according to that table
[07:29] jesusabdullah: There's a strict mode for javascript?
[07:29] _announcer: Twitter: "@ Andrwj look at Google's moves in the past, Win API developers enjoyed a boom for those days, the environment, on behalf of the V8 and JavaScript, and give NodeJS're suddenly a thought ..." [ko] -- Rhio.kim. http://twitter.com/Rhiokim/status/20612523808
[07:29] mscdex: well, at least for the functions listed
[07:29] mscdex: jesusabdullah: it's an es5 thing
[07:30] mscdex: jesusabdullah: see: http://ejohn.org/blog/ecmascript-5-strict-mode-json-and-more/
[07:30] polotek: mscdex: ie9 feels like a distant dream
[07:31] polotek: read this thing recently
[07:31] mscdex: polotek: psh, i would never dream about IE lol
[07:31] jesusabdullah: Huh
[07:31] jesusabdullah: Not sure I like that <_>
[07:31] polotek: about a petition in the UK to get the government to upgrade their browsers
[07:31] jesusabdullah: I mean, the way of invoking it
[07:31] polotek: from ie6
[07:31] polotek: they declined
[07:31] mscdex: polotek: yeah i think i heard about that
[07:31] polotek: stating the same old crap
[07:31] polotek: it's too hard, it would cost too much to upgrade
[07:31] polotek: horseshit man
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[07:32] mscdex: i actually prefer the ie6 ui to the newer versions
[07:32] mscdex: not the engine mind  you
[07:32] jesusabdullah: Hmm
[07:32] jesusabdullah: no "use strict" in v8 yet, it seems
[07:32] jesusabdullah: INTERESTING
[07:32] polotek: mscdex: yeah the ui is aweful starting with ie7
[07:32] mscdex: jesusabdullah: nope
[07:32] polotek: ie6 ain't pretty
[07:32] polotek: but it doesn't suck
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[07:33] mscdex: ie6 needs like ie9's rendering engine, like the way you can have the chrome/webkit renderer in ie
[07:33] mscdex: heh
[07:34] polotek: I'd be interested to see the penetration numbers for ie chrome frame
[07:34] polotek: probably negligent
[07:35] mscdex: this is an interesting site: http://ipinfo.info/netrenderer/
[07:35] jesusabdullah: the UK government still uses IE6?
[07:35] mscdex: it doesn't capture the whole page or allow you to have it scroll
[07:35] mscdex: but still neat
[07:36] jesusabdullah: Yeah :/
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[07:41] mscdex: this one uses safari on mac supposedly and gives you the option to get a jpg or png of the whole page: http://superscreenshot.com/
[07:47] _announcer: Twitter: "Coding with : Node.js + WebSockets + HTML5 + CSS3 + Raphael -- I'm living in the future." -- Conrad Twizzle. http://twitter.com/conradtwizzle/status/20613301194
[07:49] polotek: best twitter name ever
[07:49] micheil: possible
[07:50] polotek: I take that back.  that award still goes to voodootikigod
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[07:51] micheil: polotek: marco, right?
[07:52] polotek: micheil: yep, what's up?
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[07:54] micheil: polotek: just checking. I'm kinda bad with names
[07:55] polotek: micheil: I hear you
[07:55] polotek: I put my real name everywhere
[07:56] polotek: I also put profile pics everywhere so people know I'm black ;)
[07:56] jesusabdullah: Hah!
[07:56] micheil: polotek: colour of skin doesn't mean a thing.
[07:56] polotek: micheil: sure it does
[07:57] polotek: it shouldn't. but it definitely does
[07:57] polotek: I just don't like to surprise people with it
[07:57] jesusabdullah: I come from a land where there are very few black people, except for guys in the military
[07:57] micheil: as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't. As far as others are, it might.
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[07:57] jesusabdullah: So, even though I'd like to be the sort of person that doesn't care, etc. I'm on some level still mildly surprised to meet a black person that's not military <_>
[07:57] jesusabdullah: As silly as that sounds
[07:58] polotek: micheil: Yeah I know. programmers are usually pretty tolerant
[07:58] SubStack: skin color matters very much
[07:58] SubStack: it determines how much vitamin d can be synthesized indirectly
[07:58] jesusabdullah: If it's yellow, it's a sign of malaria, pretty sure
[07:58] jesusabdullah: if it's green, you probably have gangrene
[07:58] polotek: SubStack: nice
[07:58] SubStack: and protects against uv radiation
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[07:59] micheil: SubStack: okay, biologically, it means something, mentally and socially it means nothing to me.
[07:59] polotek: SubStack: maybe slightly, but not overly so
[07:59] jesusabdullah: I know I sunburn pretty easy
[07:59] polotek: jesusabdullah: yeah I'm sunburned right now
[07:59] jesusabdullah: 
ACTION comes from a long line of rednecks

[07:59] polotek: from the beach last weekend
[08:00] jesusabdullah: Aww :(
[08:00] jesusabdullah: We don't have beaches
[08:00] jesusabdullah: :(
[08:00] polotek: jesusabdullah: no beaches and no black people.  you're very deprived man
[08:00] jesusabdullah: I know!
[08:00] micheil: I rarely sunburn badly, but I try not to be in situations where I can get sunburnt (seriously 40ºC heat is badass)
[08:00] jesusabdullah: o_o
[08:01] jesusabdullah: I think 30C is painfully hot
[08:01] mscdex: 
ACTION shakes a fist at the celsius scale

[08:01] micheil: ouch
[08:01] micheil: well, 40ºC is about 110ºF
[08:01] SubStack: 
ACTION metrifies mscdex 

[08:01] micheil: iirc.
[08:01] manveru: we had almost 40 the last week...
[08:01] mscdex: the only thing metric is good for is scientific stuff :p
[08:01] SubStack: 
ACTION had some sunburn when he went to hawaii

[08:01] SubStack: the annoying part is how the skin peels off afterwards
[08:02] jesusabdullah: My girlfriend's brother had the batman symbol reverse-sunburned on his back
[08:02] mscdex: well that's a-peeling
[08:02] mscdex: :-D
[08:02] jesusabdullah: It was pretty awesome except for the whole "increased cancer risk" thing
[08:02] manveru: mscdex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Metric_system_adoption_map.svg
[08:02] polotek: jesusabdullah: everything causes cancer now
[08:02] polotek: I say stop worrying and just do it
[08:02] SubStack: melanoma is also one of the easier cancers to treat
[08:03] mscdex: jesusabdullah: he didn't try jumping off the roof of his house to see if he could fly did he?
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[08:03] jesusabdullah: polotek: You have a nook? Awesome \m/
[08:03] jesusabdullah: Sorry, I went and found your blog
[08:03] jesusabdullah: <_>
[08:03] SubStack: stalker!
[08:03] mscdex: manveru: you will also see that antarctica has not adopted metric either
[08:03] jesusabdullah: mscdex: No, but he DOES do parkour during his free time
[08:03] jesusabdullah: kid's nuts
[08:03] polotek: manveru: yeah I agree, the us should get on board with the metric system
[08:04] mscdex: converting to metric for the U.S. would cost a lot
[08:04] jesusabdullah: One nice thing about -40 C is that it's also -40 F
[08:04] polotek: we're like IE in that respect.  using our own shit to accomplish the same thing instead of being standard
[08:04] polotek: mscdex: so would upgrading IE6
[08:04] polotek: both still worth it
[08:04] mscdex: meh
[08:04] ryan[WIN]: hey quick client-side js question
[08:04] mscdex: we should just all use kelvin!
[08:04] SubStack: avoirdupois is like IE6
[08:04] polotek: jesusabdullah: my blog is pretty shitty
[08:04] ryan[WIN]: how do i set the scrollbar on a div to the end of the data
[08:05] ryan[WIN]: it's a chat window i'm doing with a div
[08:05] ryan[WIN]: when i get a new line i want to add it and set scrollbar position to end
[08:05] jesusabdullah: polotek: Mine too!
[08:05] jesusabdullah: jesusabdullah.github.com
[08:05] jesusabdullah: :v
[08:05] SubStack: ryan[WIN]: scrollTo
[08:05] ryan[WIN]: k i will google that
[08:05] ryan[WIN]: thanks
[08:05] SubStack: you can probably do .scrollTo($('elem').height())
[08:05] manveru: mscdex: i haven't been to the US, so the only time i have to deal with non-metric stuff is online :)
[08:05] polotek: jesusabdullah: nice pic at the bottom
[08:05] SubStack: or attr('scrollHeight') which seems mostly to do the same thing
[08:06] jesusabdullah: polotek: Yeah XD
[08:06] mscdex: ryan[WIN]: fwiw http://www.webdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99391
[08:06] mscdex: manveru: the only time i've ever used metric was in physics courses
[08:07] jesusabdullah: My bachelor's is in mechanical engineering. We switch back and forth like nothin'
[08:07] mscdex: heh
[08:08] jesusabdullah: until slugs get into the picture. For some reason slugs are confusing
[08:08] mscdex: too slimey?
[08:08] mscdex: :-D
[08:08] manveru: 
ACTION gets back to learning tcl

[08:08] jesusabdullah: Well, they're a mass measurement for the English system
[08:09] polotek: jesusabdullah: you gotta put dates on your blog posts man
[08:09] polotek: it's one of my pet peeves
[08:09] jesusabdullah: so that 32.2 slug-ft/s^2 = 1 lbf
[08:09] polotek: not being able to easily tell how old something is
[08:09] jesusabdullah: polotek: Hmm, good idea. Thanks! I'll make a note somewhere.
[08:10] jesusabdullah: Issue'd
[08:10] jesusabdullah: Will fix Monday
[08:11] polotek: micheil: you're working the websockets spec right?
[08:11] micheil: not quite
[08:11] micheil: I'm an implementor
[08:11] polotek: ah, that's cool
[08:11] micheil: I don't really have that much I can actually contirbute to the authoring of the spec.
[08:12] polotek: that makes sense given your frustrated tweets about it
[08:12] micheil: yeah. It's just really a tonne of bikeshedding.
[08:13] jesusabdullah: Haha
[08:13] jesusabdullah: Finally the url sheddingbikes makes sense >_<
[08:13] micheil: like, I thought commonjs was bad at times.
[08:14] polotek: micheil: commonjs is bad
[08:14] polotek: which is why node is clobbering them
[08:14] _announcer: Twitter: "# Nice, I have to node.js. templating .. morning missing some css server and income ..." [es] -- Loki Zavala. http://twitter.com/Siedrix/status/20614473989
[08:14] polotek: I think it sucks cause those guys are really smart and I like what they're doing
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[08:16] micheil: yeah, although, the bad part about the websocket spec is that it's got now three strands, each group wanting their own thing
[08:17] polotek: You would think we'd be better at mediating between shed painters at this point in the long sordid history
[08:18] micheil: yeah, but we're not, because everyone has an idealist view of things.
[08:18] polotek: I would have each faction use the other's proposals to implement some test cases
[08:18] micheil: and then there's the people who want the kitchen sink in the first version
[08:18] polotek: oh yeah, that's always a problem
[08:19] polotek: I think having each side actually have to use the others proposals would go a long way towards forcing compromise
[08:19] micheil: for instance, there's been talk of how to add multiplexing and compression into websockets now before anyone's really used them much
[08:19] polotek: too much theoretical talking without doing
[08:19] polotek: but the kitchen sink thing is a beast
[08:19] micheil: yeah
[08:19] polotek: not really sure how to combat that one
[08:20] polotek: and it's not totally unreasonable
[08:20] polotek: there's a very real issue of api
[08:20] polotek: if you don't try to consider everything that will eventually need to be supported
[08:20] polotek: you end up with inconsistent apis
[08:20] polotek: unless you did a really good job of making them elegant from the start
[08:21] polotek: I totally get that
[08:21] polotek: but honestly, it's just not possible to be perfect
[08:21] micheil: well, I mean, personally I think all data on websockets should be transfered as binary, but the default encoding be set to utf8
[08:21] jesusabdullah: Makes sense
[08:22] polotek: there is a point when holding up progress is worse than having to make some api changes later
[08:22] polotek: micheil: that would work, but that type of stuff is usually about api usability right?
[08:23] micheil: so, the packet format would be similar to the VII that their now up to, where by you have a bunch of metadata, a packet type bit, and then you have a length bit which tells the parser the next X bytes is part of my data
[08:23] polotek: "if I'm using the socket like this, I want my data to come out looking like this..."
[08:23] micheil: so then on the client side, unless otherwise stated by a ws.setEncoding(encoding), the content of the packets is recieved and emitted out as utf8 text messages
[08:24] micheil: so, doing what people are currently doing would still work fine
[08:24] polotek: micheil: yeah I definitely don't know enough about it
[08:25] polotek: using node has required me to increase my understanding of that stuff
[08:25] polotek: but I'm still way behind
[08:25] polotek: i was perfectly content with http :)
[08:25] micheil: polotek: same. The only prior network stuff I did was working on chat clients / bots for the deviantART message network 
[08:26] konobi: micheil: how are the devart guys?
[08:26] micheil: not too bad
[08:27] micheil: they've just had their tenth birthday
[08:27] micheil: so, ten years online today
[08:27] _announcer: Twitter: "Downtime, sort of. After cclite 0.8.0: http://bit.ly/d5IAtY I can mess with Opensim: http://bit.ly/bpvlmF and node.js: http://bit.ly/axbYbL" -- Hugh Barnard. http://twitter.com/hughbarnard/status/20615010955
[08:27] konobi: micheil: wow... pretty nuts... i remember the initial beta
[08:28] micheil: heh
[08:28] micheil: I've been a member since 05
[08:29] konobi: that was before Jarkko took off, right?
[08:31] polotek: so for those who remember me asking about js enhancements like array comprehensions and generators
[08:31] polotek: that stuff is not part of es5 at all
[08:31] polotek: they are mozilla specific enhancements in their version of javascript
[08:32] polotek: by the mozilla version numbering
[08:32] konobi: yup
[08:32] konobi: 1.5
[08:32] polotek: 1.5 is basically stable es3 with a few "upgrades"
[08:32] polotek: they are now up to 1.8
[08:32] polotek: which has most of the es5 stuff
[08:32] polotek: plus all the extra stuff that isn't supported by ECMA
[08:33] polotek: like array comprehensions, generators, generics, e4x...
[08:33] polotek: all the cool stuff basically
[08:35] polotek: so you can only find that stuff in Firefox, tracemonkey and rhino
[08:35] polotek: generators would fit so awesomely into node
[08:35] micheil: konobi: same time.
[08:36] micheil: polotek: have a look at: http://gist.github.com/513767
[08:38] polotek: hmmm
[08:38] polotek: micheil: what does specifying the protocol actually do?
[08:38] micheil: not a lot.
[08:38] micheil: it's mainly so you could have say five different servers, but as long as each understands the protocol, they would be able to communicate with the same clients
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[08:39] micheil: so, for instance, pusherapp.com, could use the subprotocol of "pusher-json"
[08:39] konobi: standards are bikeshedding... implentations before the gold sstandard
[08:39] polotek: konobi: it should be a symbiotic development
[08:39] polotek: start with discussing some initial standards
[08:40] polotek: then start building and see what works
[08:40] polotek: let it stay on the bleeding edge and usage patterns will start to emerge
[08:40] polotek: iterate on those in the next round of standards discussion
[08:40] konobi: well... goals should be discussed... specifics should be determined by implementation
[08:40] polotek: that's one thing that allows these things to derail
[08:41] polotek: clearly defined goals
[08:41] konobi: for example... perl 6 has been be changing their spec regularly based on experimentation
[08:41] polotek: so for instance with websockets
[08:41] polotek: either supporting binary is in the requirements for this pass or it isn't
[08:41] polotek: decide that first
[08:42] polotek: and if it's not in, then people aren't allowed to derail the conversation by worrying about it
[08:43] micheil: well, I think it'd be best if binary was the default format for packets
[08:44] polotek: micheil: you think but you don't know right?
[08:44] polotek: nobody does
[08:44] polotek: so we should settle whether it's a priority right now
[08:44] polotek: so we can move on
[08:44] polotek: that would be my approach anyway
[08:44] micheil: well, if it's binary now over the wire, then that means that all that needs to change later is the encoding stuff
[08:45] polotek: micheil: I tend to agree with you
[08:45] micheil: so when browsers support binary in javascript, then you can easily have binary websockets, but until then, the user just gets utf8 text data
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[08:45] polotek: what's the actual reasoning from those who oppose that idea?
[08:46] micheil: there's not, there just seems to be the IETF working on this binary is king style spec, and the WHATWG are still pushing on with their draft76
[08:47] micheil: bascially at some stage there was a requirement by the WHATWG to make the protocol implementable by the ‘amateur programmer’
[08:47] micheil: which, imho, is a really stupid requirement.
[08:47] micheil: I'm just against enforcing the protocol to have to always use TLS, because most uses do not need the encryption, it's just over head
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[08:48] micheil: If there's just one packet format, instead of the two that are present in draft76, that's a hell of a lot simpler
[08:49] konobi: man... looking at the perl 6 syntax and features makes me really want a production ready version
[08:50] polotek: micheil: sounds like one of the oldest stories in the book
[08:50] micheil: ?
[08:50] polotek: bunch of really smart guys who don't actually do any work arguing over details
[08:51] micheil: my current benchmark is if I can implement it, then it must be easy enough.
[08:51] polotek: hehe, yeah but that's dangerous
[08:51] micheil: which might sound really stupid, but it's true, I'm not a person with a degree.
[08:51] polotek: you can't use yourself as a metric
[08:51] polotek: your skills are always improving
[08:52] polotek: so your bar is always rising
[08:52] polotek: I think the whole idea of making things for "amateur programmers" is flawed
[08:52] polotek: we're talking about low level browser implementations
[08:52] micheil: man. someone should seriously shoot those using named prams.
[08:53] polotek: amateur programmers don't implement protocols
[08:53] polotek: they don't even try
[08:53] ryan[WIN]: http://pilot.ryanbroomfield.com:8030/icorn.html
[08:53] polotek: they look for high level apis that work for them
[08:53] micheil: exactly.
[08:53] ryan[WIN]: man this is starting to really come together
[08:53] ryan[WIN]: (btw content on that link may be NSFW due to the fact it's a chat)
[08:53] ryan[WIN]: even though it's not NSFW
[08:54] polotek: I just wrote a rant about the importance of consistent apis on the mailing list actually
[08:55] ryan[WIN]: polotek, dude yeah most amateur programmers want stuff that is "easy" aka BROKEN
[08:55] ryan[WIN]: and they don't realize that when they get what they want they make their lives miserable
[08:56] stagas: polotek: that's lazy programmers not amateur
[08:56] polotek: ryan[WIN]: consistent and powerful does not mean "easy"
[08:56] polotek: you can build an "easy" api on top of a lower level one
[08:56] polotek: and that one can have flaws
[08:56] ryan[WIN]: of course
[08:56] polotek: but you can always drop down and fix them
[08:56] ryan[WIN]: but amateur programmers only want the "easy"
[08:57] polotek: ryan[WIN]: that's fine, they can have it
[08:57] ryan[WIN]: and then end up losing their minds when they find out they can't get the "correct"
[08:57] polotek: what I'm saying is the "easy" api should not be the spec
[08:57] ryan[WIN]: why i <3 nodejs and never got into any of the web framework stuff
[08:57] polotek: the spec should have a powerful lower level api that is consistent and easy to reason about
[08:57] ryan[WIN]: polotek, i 100% agree
[08:58] polotek: xmlhttprequest is a good example
[08:58] polotek: not a perfect api
[08:58] polotek: but nice
[08:58] polotek: and some really nice "easy" apis have been built on top
[09:03] polotek: stagas: just got scrolled back to your comment about lazy vs amateur
[09:03] kuya: i want to write a nodejs game :|
[09:03] polotek: you're right that there's a distinction
[09:04] _announcer: Twitter: "node.js intro http://is.gd/e8tpK" -- tru64ufs. http://twitter.com/tru64ufs/status/20616498083
[09:04] polotek: I still think it's unreasonable to cripple a protocol by forcing it to be easy enough for "amateur programmers"
[09:04] polotek: an amateur might actually try to implement a protocol
[09:04] polotek: they should be prepared to fail
[09:04] polotek: because the goal of a protocol is not to be easy to implement
[09:04] polotek: or at least it shouldn't be
[09:05] polotek: a protocol is about facilitating data exchange
[09:05] polotek: depending on the data and the domain, that protocol might be extremely simple or pretty complex
[09:05] polotek: but it should serve it's purpose without worrying about who's going to be implementing it
[09:06] polotek: because the nice thing about a protocol, is once it has been implemented by somebody smart
[09:06] polotek: you don't really have to do it again
[09:06] polotek: unless you really want to or think you can do better
[09:06] micheil: yeah
[09:06] micheil: I think they've now ditched the amateur programmer thing
[09:07] polotek: micheil: feel free to use that rant
[09:07] polotek: to convince some people ;)
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[09:13] polotek: I'm out guys.  take it light
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[09:17] Sam_: Done
[09:18] Sam_: Check out the module I just finished writing: http://fixee.org/paste/gao6bsz
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[09:19] micheil: Sam_: if that's for node, us Array.isArray 
[09:20] stagas: Sam_: what does it do?
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[09:21] Sam_: micheil:  Oh yea, found out about that earlier today
[09:25] konobi: Sam_: trying to do DOM 1?
[09:29] Sam_: example: http://fixee.org/paste/asrmcll/
[09:30] konobi: Sam_: seen jsdom yet?
[09:31] konobi: http://github.com/tmpvar/jsdom
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[09:42] Sam_: konobi: I just wanted an easy way to write HTML structures with javascript
[09:43] Sam_: Rather than just using text templates
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[10:49] mape: Shouldn't make install on OSX allow me to run node? Instead of sudo node?
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[10:55] _announcer: Twitter: "@robconery I'd wash off the VB and go play with a little F# or for a none-ms flavour Erlang ;o) NodeJS + Websockets is quite cool" -- Chris McKee. http://twitter.com/chrismckee/status/20620933749
[10:59] _announcer: Twitter: "@ Tiboll for node.js throws a glance at expressjs was, I think the framework node.js the most advanced and evolved." [fr] -- Jérémy TRUFIER. http://twitter.com/Tronix117/status/20621103908
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[11:19] konobi: who's working on the WebWorkers implementation?
[11:19] mape: konobi: hehe I JUST started looking at it
[11:20] mape: http://github.com/pgriess/node-webworker
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[11:20] konobi: mape: might having a look at a node patch for me?
[11:20] mape: but seems the npm version of it isn't working
[11:21] konobi: mape: http://github.com/konobi/node/commit/83811c9c39951e2ac2602495f6899d7746fc5415
[11:22] mape: konobi: Hmm don't think I will be och much help sadly
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[11:40] _announcer: Twitter: "i wish new Buffer('utf8', 'a', 1 + 2, obj)  in #nodejs /cc @ryah" -- Alexander. http://twitter.com/bga_/status/20622839283
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[11:55] _announcer: Twitter: "great list of #nodejs related modules and frameworks http://bit.ly/cjJYbY" -- Dominik Guzei. http://twitter.com/DominikGuzei/status/20623530080
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[12:00] _announcer: Twitter: "use #nodejs today on webfaction cheap hosting with shell access! http://bit.ly/cRFCcr @ellisgl sorry for 404" -- Dominik Guzei. http://twitter.com/DominikGuzei/status/20623740745
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[12:28] _announcer: Twitter: "@miksago i'll open it, no problem! In fact, i was thinking of node.js it to support up to 4 players" -- Diego F. Goberna. http://twitter.com/feiss/status/20625078244
[12:40] _announcer: Twitter: "Trustworthy #nodejs & #mysql solution for high-load prod environment: DBSlayer, external XML-RPC or node-mysql(*) module? Any suggestions?" -- Maciej Zgadzaj. http://twitter.com/maciejzgadzaj/status/20625697911
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[12:47] joshhunt_: Hey guys
[12:47] joshhunt_: I am having a bit of an issue using node-rss with node.js, so i am not too sure if this is the right place to ask this, but here it goes
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[12:48] joshhunt_: Using node-rss, http://github.com/ibrow/node-rss, i can only ever make one successful request for an rss feed. After the first, it just reports with "<ERROR>"Document: only comments, processing instructions, or whitespace allowed outside of document element"</ERROR>"
[12:50] sveisvei: joshhunt_:  Hey, do you have gist with your code?
[12:52] joshhunt_: Sure. http://dpaste.com/226218/
[12:52] joshhunt_: RSS stuff starts at line 50
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[12:55] sveisvei: ill run it and try to debug, probably something that doesnt reset/are global
[12:55] joshhunt_: sveisvei: Oh thanks 
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[13:14] joshhunt_: sveisvei: I can send you all the files involved if it is a help
[13:14] sveisvei: just tested the example from node-rss, it gives the same erro
[13:15] sveisvei: I would consider node-rss highly alpha though
[13:15] sveisvei: might be better to use another lib maybe?
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[13:17] joshhunt_: fair enough. Thanks
[13:17] sveisvei: sry, I cant see what it is :(
[13:18] joshhunt_: No, i appreciate your help. I think i might just go with using node-xml...
[13:19] joshhunt_: Does not look like there are many other rss libraries available
[13:22] mscdex: joshhunt_: that's similar to what i do. i use libxmljs to parse the xml then convert the resulting document to javascript objects
[13:22] joshhunt_: mscdex: for rss feeds?
[13:23] mscdex: no, anything xml
[13:23] konobi: joshhunt_: any idea if node-xml handles the XML declaration ?
[13:23] mscdex: i just prefer dealing with native js objects than xml
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[13:24] _announcer: Twitter: "Fucking with the new version of framework to express nodejs http://bit.ly/d9o9H7 but fight petite npm" [es] -- karlos g liberal. http://twitter.com/patxangas/status/20628021556
[13:24] mscdex: joshhunt_: there's even rss2json services
[13:24] mscdex: i.e. http://www.rss2json.com/
[13:25] joshhunt_: mscdex: Yeah... ive seen a few of those, but i am not quite sure if i want to use/rely on another service like that...
[13:25] joshhunt_: konobi: I have no idea. I have never actually used it directly
[13:26] konobi: joshhunt_: try an rss feed without one?
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[13:28] joshhunt_: konobi: eh
[13:29] joshhunt_: I don't really want to have to pick each rss source individually
[13:29] joshhunt_: I've tried two different ones now (reddit and engadget) and neither work
[13:29] mscdex: joshhunt_: fwiw here is an async xml to js object converter that uses libxmljs: http://gist.github.com/416021
[13:30] ThePub: I was going to say, that shouldn't be a hard task to write a small library which would do the conversion.
[13:30] sveisvei: joshhunt_:  I found the bug
[13:30] sveisvei: joshhunt_:  its in node-xml.js
[13:30] V1: You can also just use YQL to convert rss to json
[13:30] joshhunt_: sveisvei: I assumed that much...
[13:31] sveisvei: joshhunt_:  that.m_parser = new XMLP(strD)
[13:31] sveisvei: want a patch, or just found something better :)?
[13:31] sveisvei: I would go with the latter, because there is something weird with this modules state
[13:32] joshhunt_: yeah, well i figure i should just go and get something better
[13:32] joshhunt_: sveisvei: But, is the patch hard/complex?
[13:33] sveisvei: let me test 1 sec with the state thing, and ill trow it to you
[13:34] joshhunt_: thanks
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[13:44] V1: Tobsn, I checked out your flexihash library for node and saw you created a separated to UTF8 function, node has one natively called "StringDecoder" => http://github.com/ry/node/blob/master/lib/string_decoder.js 
[13:45] Tobsn: yeah i saw that after i used that utf8 thing
[13:45] Tobsn: was too lazy to change it :P
[13:45] V1: =p
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[13:49] sveisvei: joshhunt_:  nogo, it saves result on the object itself
[13:49] sveisvei: and doesnt flush
[13:49] joshhunt_: ahh
[13:49] joshhunt_: thanks anyway
[13:50] sveisvei: and I saw factory inside there ( i hate factorys, dont see the point)
[13:50] sveisvei: 
ACTION cant spell *

[13:50] joshhunt_: I think i will just go with one of those rss2json services
[13:52] sveisvei: might be smart to post on the projects issue list, might get a better answer than mine
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[13:56] _announcer: Twitter: "Have you tried cradle? http://github.com/cloudhead/cradle #nodejs #couchdb" -- SantoshSadangi. http://twitter.com/tutu_designer/status/20629867576
[13:56] _announcer: Twitter: "Pure Ruby implementation of #nodejs native libraries http://github.com/aslakhellesoy/rednode" -- SantoshSadangi. http://twitter.com/tutu_designer/status/20629904910
[13:57] _announcer: Twitter: "I was not aware that #nodejs wasn't #commonjs compliant http://hns.github.com/2010/07/30/modules.html" -- SantoshSadangi. http://twitter.com/tutu_designer/status/20629938896
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[13:59] joshhunt_: hrm... is there an easier way to load json from a url than using http.client in node.js?
[14:00] joshhunt_: Sorry for the obviously lame question, but the only other place i have used js is with jquery, and i just used that for everything
[14:00] _announcer: Twitter: "Demystifying events in node.js - How To Node: http://bit.ly/b3qfUv" -- Hernan Garcia. http://twitter.com/theprogrammer/status/20630137877
[14:00] mscdex: joshhunt_: not really. i mean, you can use the undocumented http.cat function, but you still have to JSON.parse() the results
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[14:01] joshhunt_: http.cat?
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[14:02] moritz__: hai
[14:05] _announcer: Twitter: "I have a proof concept for a redundancy option in my Node.js memcached client. It does require a big base rewrite, but I hope its done today" -- Arnout Kazemier. http://twitter.com/3rdEden/status/20630453464
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[14:11] sveimac: joshhunt_:  http://github.com/ry/node/blob/master/lib/http.js#L1022 I guess its this one btw 
[14:12] mscdex: sveimac: yep
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[14:18] polotek: joshhunt_: a nicer api on top of http.Client is being worked on as we speak
[14:19] polotek: don't know when it'll be out though. for now http client is best
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[14:26] V1: ryah: Do you have any issues with that I'm going to rewrite 90% of the node javascript files to named functions expressions. So when we are profiling the functions doesn't show up as <anonymouse>?
[14:26] mape: <3
[14:27] bradleymeck: nope, s'why i name my funcs
[14:28] bradleymeck: ^not ry but,heh, and coding for js1k is making my inner coder bleed w/ syntax hacks
[14:28] polotek: V1: sounds like potential for lots of insidious bugs.  I say do it.
[14:28] bradleymeck: you just need to put the name after function but before (), i dont think many things can go wrong
[14:29] polotek: bradleymeck: famous last words
[14:29] polotek: it does sound pretty simple
[14:29] polotek: I dont think it'll cause obvious issues
[14:29] polotek: the node test suite is pretty robust a this point I think
[14:29] bradleymeck: no variables are introduced to outer scopes
[14:29] polotek: but giving it a name makes it a scope variable
[14:29] mape: As long as you don't name them over other named functions?
[14:30] polotek: which means it starts mingling with other scope variables
[14:30] polotek: potential for clashes and all that
[14:30] mscdex: yeh
[14:30] polotek: goes into closures
[14:30] bradleymeck: polotek, kinda, if its a function statement yes, if its a function expression, no, which you almost only use anons as func expressions
[14:31] polotek: bradleymeck: word, I admit I'm not entirely up on the difference
[14:31] polotek: which is why if I was doing it, I'd be nervous
[14:31] bradleymeck: basically if you cant set up an anon, it is a statement 
[14:32] polotek: bradleymeck: can you set up a quick gist example?  I'm interested
[14:32] bradleymeck: js> function(){3}
[14:32] gbot2: bradleymeck: <function () { }>
[14:32] bradleymeck: oh its running it, ok ill set up one sec
[14:33] bradleymeck: darn gbot2 not using true global scope
[14:33] mape: V1: try a script that just pregmatches in random names and see if it breaks?
[14:34] konobi: V1: profiling with what?
[14:34] _announcer: Twitter: "finally #udp support on #nodejs, lets build an #OSC parser and do realtime performances in the browser! http://bit.ly/a5YaHs" -- Dominik Guzei. http://twitter.com/DominikGuzei/status/20632309479
[14:34] polotek: konobi: I think the move is dtrace
[14:35] polotek: but also the v8 profiler
[14:35] polotek: I'm definitely waiting for somebody to do something cool with node and udp
[14:37] konobi: polotek: oh yes... we will be dtrace probing like crazy
[14:37] konobi: mwuahahaha
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[14:37] mape: has there been any eta announced on that?
[14:37] bradleymeck: http://gist.github.com/514096 < polotek both expressions fail cause various reasons
[14:37] konobi: nope
[14:37] mape: And I guess that means I have to start developing on OSX :S
[14:37] konobi: or solaris
[14:37] polotek: mape: on the dtrace stuff?
[14:38] polotek: I think it's waiting on the EventSource branch to drop
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[14:38] mape: polotek: Yeah, my linux box won't play that game
[14:38] mape: Sadly
[14:38] polotek: mape: yes, that's exactly what it means. Macs are awesome
[14:38] mape: I prefer to use linux since that is what the production server usually runs
[14:38] konobi: mape, opensolaris is pretty fecking awesome, tbh
[14:38] mape: And I have 4 dedicated cores
[14:39] konobi: and runnable in virtualbox
[14:39] bradleymeck: polotek, those give you an idea of whats going on?
[14:39] polotek: bradleymeck: so in exp.js
[14:39] polotek: line 4 fails
[14:39] bradleymeck: yes
[14:40] polotek: because the function named "expression" isn't actually in scope, it was created for that statement only
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[14:40] bradleymeck: :D
[14:40] polotek: but the name goes with it so in any stack output, it'll show up with the name?
[14:40] bradleymeck: not even that, just that part of the expression
[14:40] polotek: is that it basically
[14:40] bradleymeck: yes
[14:40] polotek: that's cool
[14:41] polotek: so then real issues with what V1 is doing is making sure there are no name clashes
[14:41] bradleymeck: between local vars, yup
[14:41] polotek: and making sure that these are always interpreted as expressions and not statements
[14:41] bradleymeck: you wouldnt use an anonymous as a statement, i dont think you can even
[14:41] polotek: yeah I get you.  that's why exp_fail.js doesn't run
[14:42] polotek: that's fine.  I'm definitely up to speed now.
[14:42] bradleymeck: cool beans
[14:42] polotek: still nervous about this kind of massive change, but sounds more reasonable now
[14:43] polotek: bradleymeck: I have an unrelated question for you
[14:43] polotek: you've been working with getter/setters in the v8 api for node-overload
[14:43] _announcer: Twitter: "#socket-io and #nodejs - the perfect combination for realtime browser apps http://bit.ly/9OQU05" -- Dominik Guzei. http://twitter.com/DominikGuzei/status/20632883807
[14:43] polotek: I don't have a good example of creating and accessor on an object in C++
[14:43] polotek: the steps aren't obvious
[14:44] polotek: can you point me in the right direction?
[14:44] bradleymeck: on a single propertyname?
[14:44] polotek: yes, one named property accessor
[14:46] konobi: polotek: I just created one actually
[14:46] polotek: konobi: do tell
[14:46] konobi: polotek: http://github.com/konobi/node/commit/83811c9c39951e2ac2602495f6899d7746fc5415#diff-1
[14:46] konobi: SetAccessor is what you're after
[14:47] konobi: (that one only has a getter, but the setter is pretty simple)
[14:48] bradleymeck: yea, also, use the data argument to pass persistent stuff rather than extending object if you can
[14:48] konobi: http://code.google.com/apis/v8/embed.html#accesssors
[14:48] polotek: konobi bradleymeck: cool thanks
[14:51] polotek: yeah I've read this embedder's guide before.  forgot it had specifics on accessors
[14:51] polotek: it's so sparse in other areas
[14:52] bradleymeck: we really need to make a c header to v8 system XD only problem i have is the darn pass by references
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[15:01] polotek: konobi: what are you using this fork method for?
[15:01] mscdex: it's maushu!
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[15:08] maushu: Wat.
[15:08] konobi: polotek: I've got something up my sleeve, but I'm sure there's plenty of stuff that's broken with that method
[15:08] maushu: I'm working.
[15:08] konobi: open file descriptors, inherited thread pools, etc. etc.
[15:09] polotek: konobi: yeah, I was just curious
[15:10] mscdex: nobody works when they're in here!
[15:10] mscdex: it's impossible!
[15:10] konobi: polotek... mainly some sandboxing style stuff
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[15:11] scoates: hi
[15:12] scoates: can someone point me at a document on how to extend built-in modules? Is there a trick to it, or do I just require, call the original and re-export?
[15:13] polotek: scoates: there's no document.
[15:13] polotek: it depends on what you mean by "extend"
[15:13] polotek: do you want to permanently extend it?  or do you mean more like a wrapper?
[15:14] scoates: say I have a module that exports apple(), orange() and banana(). I like how apple() and banana() work, but I'd like to change the functionality of orange()
[15:14] scoates: should I just require the module, write my own orange() and export the 3?
[15:14] scoates: or is there a smarter way to do that?
[15:15] polotek: scoates: no that sounds fine
[15:15] polotek: so in your module
[15:15] polotek: exports.apple = fruits.apple
[15:15] scoates: ok. the problem I foresee is that if the original module ever adds exports, I'd have to specify those myself, manually
[15:15] polotek: exports.orange = yourOrange
[15:16] polotek: scoates: right, that's why I was asking what you were actually getting at
[15:16] polotek: so in your module you could do
[15:16] scoates: yeah.. I was trying to be concise (-:
[15:16] polotek: module.exports = fruits
[15:16] polotek: so your module is literally the same as fruits
[15:16] polotek: then you extend it by overwriting the methods you want
[15:16] scoates: ah. great.
[15:16] scoates: that sounds good.
[15:16] polotek: there's a gotcha there though
[15:17] polotek: when you make changes, you're also changing fruits
[15:17] polotek: the original module object is being modified
[15:17] polotek: that may not be what you want
[15:17] scoates: ah. that's actually even better (-:
[15:17] scoates: I'm extending the readline object in a REPL
[15:17] scoates: I was just going to make repl.rli = myrli
[15:17] scoates: but if I can do it further out, then even better
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[15:20] konobi: if it's an object you could always do `module.exports = new fruits()`
[15:21] konobi: then you'll have a new instance of that object that you can edit
[15:21] polotek: module.exports = Object.create(fruits);
[15:21] _announcer: Twitter: "Impressive nodejs UDP supported as DominikGuzei @ says can make a parser for CSOs @ DominikGuzei" [es] -- karlos g liberal. http://twitter.com/patxangas/status/20635506809
[15:21] scoates: thanks
[15:22] _announcer: Twitter: "Impressive nodejs with support UDP as DominikGuzei @ says can make a parser of CSOs. Protocol multimedia on the web XD" [es] -- karlos g liberal. http://twitter.com/patxangas/status/20635598674
[15:32] bradleymeck: god i just wrote a post on ways to minify code beyond normal at all costs (since js1k is coming up) and it feels like a bad practice guide
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[15:34] scoates: polotek: sorry I wasn't very clear, earlier. Can you take a peek at this and tell me how I'm supposed to properly reference Interface? http://paste.roguecoders.com/p/fba261a088376c163c3dfd17a47f1a13.txt
[15:35] polotek: bradleymeck: lol
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[15:36] polotek: scoates: what's wrong with this?
[15:36] scoates: it tells me http://paste.roguecoders.com/p/8e17d74f0ec536350865935873ded2ed.txt
[15:36] polotek: bradleymeck: I would think that the spirit of js1k is to what you can achieve still using best practices.
[15:37] polotek: scoates: does readline have have a property called Interface?
[15:37] polotek: or are you trying to add that
[15:38] scoates: I don't think it's a property. I just don't quite understand how to get at it. sorry for the potentially dumb questions. http://github.com/ry/node/blob/master/lib/readline.js
[15:38] polotek: scoates: yeah, Interface isn't explicitly exported from readline
[15:38] polotek: there's only the createInterface function
[15:38] polotek: you might be out of luck
[15:38] scoates: that's unfortunate.. /-:
[15:39] scoates: I guess I should just copy the whole thing, then? seems like a waste.
[15:39] polotek: scoates: I would argue that it should be exported
[15:39] polotek: you could submit a patch and see if ry will accept
[15:39] scoates: ok
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[15:39] polotek: readline is pretty short.  you could copy it if what you're doing is fairly straightforward
[15:40] polotek: or just make that small change to export Interface in your build
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[15:40] polotek: obviously neither of those is portable
[15:40] micheil: lol. just wowed my older brother by showing him a page with: <body contentEditable="true"> in it.
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[15:41] polotek: micheil: hehe, yeah people love that.  they immediately ask why their CMS doesn't just use it all the time
[15:41] micheil: heh
[15:42] bradleymeck: polotek, they say you wont be judged on style, and im aiming for the tweet category
[15:42] micheil: The only sad part with it is that I can't type and edit html tags
[15:42] polotek: bradleymeck: you won't be officially judged. but morally...
[15:42] polotek: :P
[15:42] _announcer: Twitter: "Node.js plunged this week and let&#39;s look at closure library." [ja] -- Jxck. http://twitter.com/Jxck_/status/20636926447
[15:43] polotek: micheil: yeah it's definitely limited. I had an idea at one point to try to enhance it with some controls
[15:43] bradleymeck: pfff im like jim in that area, no moral judgements
[15:43] polotek: with some dom manipulation
[15:43] polotek: didn't get very far before giving up
[15:43] micheil: polotek: there's a really good demo from PPK that can be found at the WHATWG blog
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[15:53] scoates: polotek: exporting Interface did it. Thanks again. Sent a pull request to ry + you (yours for reference)
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[15:53] polotek: scoates: cool
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[15:54] polotek: fyi I think ry prefers to have patch files submitted to the mailing list
[15:54] polotek: with a subject that starts with [PATCH]
[15:54] scoates: ah. ok. I guess I can subscribe to that. (-:
[15:54] polotek: I think that's the convention
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[16:00] scoates: sent.
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[16:13] polotek: hmmmm
[16:13] polotek: the getter is working
[16:13] micheil: exactly.
[16:13] polotek: the setter seems to be called
[16:13] polotek: but the value isn't changing consistently
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[16:18] polotek: oh
[16:18] polotek: seems to be an issue with libeio
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[16:44] mape: hmm how to I regex  'I am a float'.replace(/.*float.*/, 'break'); without breaking?
[16:44] joshhunt_: So, forgive me for jumping the gun a bit, but how exactly should i be using http.cat?
[16:45] joshhunt_: I have looked through the source and tried a few things, but none of them work 
[16:45] megan: without breaking? o_O
[16:45] polotek: mape: huh?
[16:45] mape: polotek: nm, syntax error, figured it was something else
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[16:45] polotek: joshhunt_: you shouldn't. what problems are you having with http.Client?
[16:45] megan: it was your bad breath :P
[16:45] megan: mwahahhah
[16:46] joshhunt_: polotek: Nothing really, just after something a bit 'cleaner'
[16:46] joshhunt_: What's wrong with http.cat?
[16:46] polotek: joshhunt_: just thinking it's probably not part of the public api for a reason
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[16:47] polotek: I don't know anything about it
[16:47] micheil: megan: I think people missed your attempt at a troll.
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[16:48] megan: then say 0/10? :)
[16:48] joshhunt_: polotek: Well i guess that is one way of looking at it. I just want to use it because i would want to avoid writing a wrapper for http.client if one already exists
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[16:50] _announcer: Twitter: "Geddy - A modular web framework for node.js http://ff.im/oVcPM" -- antest. http://twitter.com/antest/status/20641110280
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[16:52] JimBastard: when did they add fucking captcha to the webchat
[16:52] JimBastard: arg
[16:52] polotek: joshhunt_: actually http.cat doesn't look too bad
[16:52] polotek: pretty straight forward actually
[16:53] joshhunt_: well, i got it to make a request (i think), i just need to get the response back :P
[16:54] joshhunt_: I may as well be new to javascript, so i cant make out how to do that from looking at the code
[16:54] V1: polotek: I'll rather do this massive change now, before it's late and it becomes unmanageable. 
[16:55] V1: as the .js source base isn't that "extend" yes. 
[16:55] JimBastard: joshhunt_: you trying to do http.Client requests?
[16:55] joshhunt_: JimBastard: with http.cat
[16:55] JimBastard: whats http.cat?
[16:56] joshhunt_: JimBastard: undocumented api http://github.com/ry/node/blob/master/lib/http.js#L1022
[16:56] JimBastard: ive been using http://github.com/mikeal/node-utils/tree/master/request/ which is a nice wrapper for the native http client class
[16:56] JimBastard: whats the point of http.cat/
[16:57] polotek: JimBastard: it basically does the same thing but it's way simpler
[16:57] joshhunt_: from what i understand a wrapper for http.client
[16:57] polotek: just sends a simple get and collects the response
[16:57] mape: V1: are you going ahead with naming the anon functions?
[16:57] joshhunt_: polotek: may i ask, do you know how to get the response back?
[16:57] polotek: joshhunt_: I recomment using the request module as well
[16:57] polotek: dont' know why I didn't think of it before
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[16:58] polotek: joshhunt_: yeah I just tried http.cat and I get no response
[16:58] polotek: I could dig into it in a bit
[16:58] V1: mape: Only if i get a green light for it.
[16:58] joshhunt_: yeah don't worry, ill just stick with http.client
[16:58] mape: ah k
[16:58] polotek: but you're better off using something better like the request module that JimBastard pointed to
[16:59] joshhunt_: Thanks anyway
[16:59] V1: But debugging anonymous functions aint fun.
[16:59] joshhunt_: Oh, i think i will just use what node provides. I mean, i'm only really making requests in one place
[17:00] JimBastard: joshhunt_: polotek and i dont know what we are talking about
[17:00] JimBastard: you should keep digging into undocumented api calls instead of listening to me
[17:01] polotek: ah, the reason you might not get a response from http.cat is that it doesn't follow redirects
[17:02] mape: which request handles
[17:02] polotek: statusCode == 30x
[17:02] polotek: I tried "http://google.com/"
[17:02] polotek: but obviously that redirects a few times
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[17:02] polotek: so http.cat gave me nothing
[17:02] polotek: it's really quite dumb
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[17:03] polotek: I do wish it wasn't called just "request" though
[17:04] polotek: it's hard to keep refering to it without being ambiguous
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[17:05] polotek: joshhunt_: http://gist.github.com/514267
[17:05] joshhunt_: oh wonderful
[17:05] joshhunt_: thanks
[17:05] polotek: joshhunt_: lol, I still want you not to use it
[17:06] polotek: just being helpful
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[17:07] joshhunt_: polotek: Thanks. I think i will just go with http.client
[17:07] mape: Or request.. Which works..
[17:08] polotek: joshhunt_: npm install request
[17:09] polotek: request = require("request")
[17:09] polotek: boom, done
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[17:10] polotek: zomgbie!  nice
[17:11] joshhunt_: polotek: thanks
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[17:29] shimondoodkin: how to use libxmljs as parser
[17:33] maritz: shimondoodkin: http://libxmljs.squishtech.com/parser ?!?!
[17:34] shimondoodkin: thaks ill read it now
[17:34] shimondoodkin: s/thaks/thanks
[17:35] maritz: the official documentation often answers question about how to use things :P
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[17:40] shimondoodkin: maritz: actually it confused me more then it answered when i looked at it first time
[17:41] shimondoodkin: too much without examples
[17:42] shimondoodkin: maritz: after you gave me a correct url, just then it became more friendly
[17:45] maritz: uhm... okay :D
[17:51] _announcer: Twitter: "Reading: "Introduction to node.js" ( http://bit.ly/cYGJxq ) -has good explanation of event loop" -- vishal sodani. http://twitter.com/vishalsodani/status/20644580130
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[17:58] polotek: shimondoodkin: do you have specific questions?
[17:59] shimondoodkin: i have needed an example of how to use parser 
[18:00] shimondoodkin: have you used it anywhere?
[18:00] polotek: yes :) I'm the maintainer
[18:00] polotek: looking for my example gist
[18:01] polotek: it hasn't made it into the read me yet for some dumb reason
[18:01] polotek: http://gist.github.com/484083
[18:02] polotek: that is how to use it as a push parser
[18:02] polotek: meaning you can do parser.write and feed stuff into it over time
[18:02] mscdex: ugh. i want to shoot myself after having to deal with this pathetic Cisco API documentation
[18:02] polotek: the regular parser works just the same
[18:02] shimondoodkin: thanks
[18:03] polotek: shimondoodkin: I'm off and on here today.  If you try to get me and I don't answer.  Post to my mailing list
[18:03] shimondoodkin: ok
[18:03] polotek: http://groups.google.com/group/libxmljs
[18:03] shimondoodkin: :)
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[18:13] _announcer: Twitter: "Node.js ecosystem grows quickly. Will we see it in enterprise (corporate) apps? http://icio.us/oln4ns" -- Celestino Güemes. http://twitter.com/tguemes/status/20645717769
[18:14] V1: Ofc we will see it in enterprise apps ;d
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[18:16] scoates: improved readline? http://paste.roguecoders.com/p/ef5501739843c0911e1d1b8df5caa681.txt
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[18:19] shimondoodkin: i do an enterprise app http://github.com/shimondoodkin/nodejs-mongodb-app
[18:20] tmpvar: hehe
[18:20] tmpvar: im not sure thats what he means by "enterprise"
[18:20] shimondoodkin: humm
[18:20] shimondoodkin: so waht is the meaning of it?
[18:20] tmpvar: j2ee is "enterprise"
[18:21] V1: git's nodeloaded?
[18:21] V1: githubs*
[18:21] tmpvar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_software 
[18:22] _announcer: Twitter: "Hacking on #nodejs with @sirevanhaas." -- Sean Coates. http://twitter.com/coates/status/20646201750
[18:22] shimondoodkin: i think i did not missed that definition
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[18:23] shimondoodkin: like this: http://www.hkvstore.com/phpmaker/demo.asp
[18:23] shimondoodkin: i use to do such software in php with a lot of business logic and firm automation
[18:24] tmpvar: got ya
[18:24] V1: Yay! Got redundancy support in my memcached client ^_^!
[18:25] V1: Productive weekends <3
[18:25] shimondoodkin: tmpvar: other meaning of enterprise i know is over constructive implementation of  simple staff
[18:26] shimondoodkin: s/ enterprise/enterprise software
[18:26] tmpvar: sure, and the horrible means of marketing it
[18:26] shimondoodkin: :D
[18:27] tmpvar: "solve all of your problems with j2ee, now with XSLT and WSDL!"
[18:30] shimondoodkin: "j2ee, now with XSLT and WSDL,, creates new education jobs.
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[18:31] scoates: and runs on your refrigerator[1]                                                     [1] Compressor upgrade required. J2EE needs a minimum of 82 cubic feed of icemaking space.
[18:31] scoates: *feet
[18:31] scoates: yet another joke ruined by a typo.
[18:33] shimondoodkin: my client has one of those - chillout rooms
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[18:48] FransWillem: creationix: Hey, how are you supposed to handle "upgrade" events with connect ?
[18:48] creationix: not sure
[18:48] creationix: socket.io does it by messing with the server itself
[18:48] aniero: i'm not even sure what an "upgrade" is
[18:48] creationix: not via a connect middleware
[18:48] creationix: aniero: it's an event fired by the server oblect
[18:48] creationix: part of the websocket protocol
[18:49] aniero: it shows up in HTTP too
[18:49] aniero: http.Client
[18:50] creationix: I guess for websocket clients?
[18:50] creationix: I've never used the upgrade event, my websocket implementation was before upgrade was part of node, I had to use raw net.Server
[18:51] FransWillem: aniero, creationix: Basically once a client sends an "Upgrade:" header, Node.js will pass on the raw socket, not the http.ServerResponse, to provide your own protocol implementation :)
[18:52] creationix: right, that makes sense for the server
[18:52] creationix: it's a hook ryah put in to make websocket libraries share with the http server
[18:52] CIA-77: node: 03Ryan Dahl 07master * r7068912 10/ lib/readline.js : Export Interface from readline.js - http://bit.ly/a46tEr
[18:53] FransWillem: creationix: No way to define a upgrade request handler too ? 
[18:54] creationix: FransWillem: I'm open to suggestions for connect's api
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[18:54] creationix: I do want better integration with websockets
[18:54] creationix: currently connect middleware only get the req and res objects
[18:54] FransWillem: Tbh, just the same kind of set-up with the "request" event would be fine, tbh
[18:54] creationix: not the actual server instance
[18:55] FransWillem: Well, I do think that upgrade-middleware just needs a seperate handler list, and a seperate interface (e.g. replace response object with socket+head), and it'd be fine
[18:55] creationix: sounds interesting
[18:55] creationix: FransWillem: I don't have time to work on it today, but send me a note and I'll look at it tomorrow
[18:55] shimondoodkin: polotek: do i have to define all the libxmljs handlers?
[18:57] FransWillem: creationix: Would you be interested in having a standard middleware library for websocket/xhr-longpoll/xhr-multipart/other-long-lived connections?
[18:57] creationix: FransWillem: yes, I'm looking at socket.io right now, but I'm not sold on it
[18:58] FransWillem: creationix: Ok, gimme a minute, will put the repo up on github so you can check it out
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[18:58] creationix: ok
[18:58] FransWillem: Does github allow you to rename repositories later on :p?
[18:59] mape: that will break all links to it
[18:59] mape: so people can't pull and whatnot
[18:59] scoates: nice. http://github.com/ry/node/commit/7068912fbbe53c2f9bab6c6ab13bd6a6d31e2ede thanks polotek
[18:59] FransWillem: Meh, guess I'll just suck it up :p
[19:00] creationix: FransWillem: if you ask the github guys real nicly, they might do an internal rename which will preserve your followers, wiki pages, issuea, etc
[19:00] _announcer: Twitter: "+ # # Sproutcore nodejs = awesome" [pl] -- Nikki. http://twitter.com/nicolahibbert/status/20648148133
[19:00] creationix: but yes, the git links will still be broken
[19:00] creationix: as well and anyone linking to your site
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[19:00] FransWillem: http://github.com/Frans-Willem/node-WebSocketFallback
[19:01] FransWillem: It's not perfect
[19:02] creationix: ok, I'll look at it tomorrow
[19:02] FransWillem: Would you like me to write up my ideas and e-mail them to you ?
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[19:05] FransWillem: creationix: Got friends over and holiday, we're probably going away tomorrow, so I'd rather write something up for you to read tomorrow, shall I just e-mail you ?
[19:05] creationix: FransWillem: email, or file a github issue against connect
[19:05] creationix: if you file it on github, TJ will see it too
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[19:13] drudge: creationix: can spark do hot reloading of modified files like node-supervisor?
[19:13] CIA-77: node: 03Ryan Dahl 07master * rcf5ae13 10/ TODO : Remove completed TODO task - http://bit.ly/91UREV
[19:14] maritz: oh god, isn't that a paradox TODO?
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[19:15] maritz: i mean, he can only remove it, once it's done. but it's only done, while the TODO is removed itself.
[19:15] maritz: while = when
[19:15] stagas: if it were a program it would crash
[19:15] stagas: :P
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[19:18] maritz: it's probably a hack in order to remain below 0.2 :P
[19:28] FransWillem: creationix: Mail sent, hope to hear from you soon :
[19:28] FransWillem: :)
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[19:38] _announcer: Twitter: "doing all this JS makes me want to play with node!" -- Tom Holder. http://twitter.com/tholder/status/20650099678
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[19:41] konobi: ryah: fork emulation in windows took activestate several months to get working
[19:42] konobi: however... fork in unix... very useful now
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[19:46] mscdex: anyone know of any issue with the dgram module not working?
[19:46] mscdex: :S
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[19:57] mscdex: scratch that, it looks network related :-\
[19:58] mape: Anyone know of a js module (prefferably) that optimizes css as in grouping h1{color: #fff;} h2{color:#ffffff} infot h1,h2{color:#fff;} ?
[20:00] mape: Seems yui compressor doesn't do that
[20:00] mape: at least not the default settings
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[20:03] _announcer: Twitter: "New post: Geddy - A modular web framework for node.js http://geeknews.me/2010/08/08/geddy-a-modular-web-framework-for-node-js/" -- geek. http://twitter.com/geeknewsme/status/20651402129
[20:05] micheil: shit. I've just stayed up all night.
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[20:20] _announcer: Twitter: "For giggles I'm doing OO two different ways in my node.js code. Is there something like Pep8 in Python for node (style guidelines?)" -- Benjamin W. Smith. http://twitter.com/benjaminws/status/20652282936
[20:21] micheil: !tweet @benjaminws Not really, there's an unwritten style guide, but that only applies for node.js core code, really.
[20:23] aniero: hmm, does anyone know where socket.io gets the flash socket code from?
[20:24] micheil: umm.. yeah
[20:24] micheil: but I don't have the link off hand
[20:24] mape: the one and only?
[20:24] micheil: gullie I think is the github user
[20:24] aniero: no, i found that
[20:25] aniero: i mean, how/where does the .swf come from
[20:25] aniero: looks like it's a submodule, http://github.com/gimite/web-socket-js
[20:25] micheil: it's just compiled actionscript
[20:25] aniero: guess i have to put that in my app's directory, then
[20:25] micheil: Gulliermo actually maintain(s|ed) his own version
[20:26] micheil: and I probably spelt his name wrong.
[20:26] aniero: his submodule points to that one
[20:27] mscdex: yeah, all you need is the swf i think
[20:28] aniero: ok, i'll try that
[20:28] mscdex: it's been awhile since i've used socket.io
[20:28] _announcer: Twitter: "mhhh broke ma npm ... fuck #nodejs" -- Sascha Depold. http://twitter.com/sdepold/status/20652685164
[20:29] micheil: I wonder when guillermo is going to announce that news he had about sockets.io
[20:29] aniero: mscdex: it might be hardcoded... hrm
[20:29] aniero: micheil: yeah, i heard him mention that, but no indication as to what it is?
[20:29] micheil: !tweet @sdepold no one said npm would work, y'know that?
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[20:30] ryan_gahl: fyi micheil, i don't think nodejsbot is running :)
[20:30] mscdex: micheil: i don't think the !tweet works
[20:30] micheil: >_>
[20:30] ryan_gahl: jinx!
[20:30] mscdex: micheil: look at the last tweet date: http://twitter.com/nodejsbot
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[20:30] micheil: fair enough
[20:30] mscdex: :S
[20:30] _announcer: Twitter: "Damn so refreshing things node.js is when you sit on a Java project on a daily basis .." [no] -- Christian H. Mosveen. http://twitter.com/kapteinmomo/status/20652791065
[20:31] micheil: What do people think? https://gist.github.com/89418aed1fe5b4e49f17
[20:31] mscdex: bradleymeck where are you!?!?111oneone
[20:31] mscdex: !seen _frankie
[20:31] mscdex: :p
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[20:32] mape: Hmmm, The following publicly cacheable, compressible resources should have a "Vary: Accept-Encoding" header
[20:32] mape: never seen that one before
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[20:38] CIA-77: node: 03Ryan Dahl 07master * r5033da7 10/ TODO : Add TODO list items - http://bit.ly/9XnFpS
[20:38] mape: heh
[20:40] mscdex: :>
[20:41] mscdex: that CIA bot is slow
[20:43] mscdex: i think
[20:43] mscdex: :S
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[20:58] _announcer: Twitter: "Just upgraded my Soundex algorithm for Node.js, its about 80% faster than the PHPJS version.  Testcase: http://is.gd/e96g4 Fun stuff." -- Arnout Kazemier. http://twitter.com/3rdEden/status/20654179807
[20:59] _announcer: Twitter: "having fun with rebuilding pinboard on nodejs/expressjs and ndistro http://tinyurl.com/3ybpejy good work all round @tjholowaychuk" -- Robbie Clutton. http://twitter.com/robb1e/status/20654257726
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[21:29] _announcer: Twitter: "GeddyJS, web framework for node.js - http://geddyjs.org/" -- Ahmad Gozali. http://twitter.com/gozali/status/20655805896
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[21:32] _announcer: Twitter: "Ayo shubuh eye, fuck tour, RT @ gozali: GeddyJS, web framework for node.js - http://geddyjs.org/" [tr] -- cak ali fikri chobil. http://twitter.com/chobilgaz/status/20656012216
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[21:38] mape: eh, what tour?
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[21:50] panzi: is there a way to find out if the current script is run as a module or as the main script? like in python there is "if __name__ == '__main__': ..."
[21:51] panzi: also is there a way to find out the version of node.js?
[21:52] panzi: oh the later I just found
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[22:08] _announcer: Twitter: "One great thing that got me into Rails was the 10 minute wiki tutorial - A primer i have not found with any node.js framework" -- James Urquhart. http://twitter.com/sjamesu/status/20657908110
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[22:11] _announcer: Twitter: "forgot # node.js tag for http://bit.ly/chPBOa" [fil] -- RyanGahl. http://twitter.com/RyanGahl/status/20658036537
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[22:14] _announcer: Twitter: "@sjamesu point being... primers exist (many) - also, IRC is a great place to ask questions #node.js" -- RyanGahl. http://twitter.com/RyanGahl/status/20658206326
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[22:15] maushu: Crap, I really need a vacation.
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[22:17] ryan_gahl: what the fuck is "vacation"? ^^
[22:17] ryan_gahl: 
ACTION needs one as well

[22:17] mape: ryan_gahl: it means "work when you feel like it"
[22:18] ryan_gahl: oh... not "scramble to migrate production servers to EC2 on a Sunday because biz managers pushed back when you said it should be done months ago and then suddenly rinkdinky host has meltdown so now it's a priority?"
[22:19] mape: hehe
[22:19] ryan_gahl: 
ACTION not enjoying being only tech person in startup right now

[22:20] _announcer: Twitter: "@natted you might be interested in this http://nodejs.org/" -- Daniel Eberhardt. http://twitter.com/Daniel/status/20658546469
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[22:21] tmpvar: has anyone successfully used mongodb-native?
[22:22] tmpvar: I'm guessing there has to be atleast one person lol
[22:24] stride: hehe
[22:24] tmpvar: it seems like its enforced that you have a collection before you can run a .find() or maybe I'm misreading the docs
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[22:28] mape: tmpvar: jup
[22:29] mape: I usally do: db.open( function (err, db) { db.collection('companies', function (err, collection) { companiesCache = collection; }); });
[22:30] satori_: So i wake up this morning to find that P != NP. That doesn't happen every day :P
[22:30] mape: and then I just use companiesCache.find({}, function(err, cursor){cursor.toArray et cetc})
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[22:31] mape: satori_: so what will that mean? or change
[22:31] satori_: uge for comp csi
[22:31] satori_: Huge
[22:31] satori_: if it pans out and if verified
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[22:31] stride: satori_: hehe :) yeah
[22:31] satori_: http://www.claymath.org/millennium/P_vs_NP/
[22:32] stride: but papers on that are released every now and then, I'm curious on a formal peer review process
[22:32] satori_: This time even Stephen Cook is impressed
[22:32] tmpvar: mape, ah, that makes sense.. I was confused, thanks :)
[22:32] satori_: and he first formalize the problem in the 60's
[22:32] stride: yeah, read that. and the source being HP research at least sounds credible
[22:33] satori_: I wish I could understand the math
[22:33] mape: satori_: so more or less just means it is hard to calculate those kinda thigns?
[22:33] mape: *things
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[22:33] malkomalko: howdy everybody
[22:33] stride: yeah, my BSc doesn't cover weird 100 page math proofs :)
[22:34] satori_: It's more to do with computers can be used *at all* to solve some problems (in the lifetime of the universe)
[22:34] mape: satori_: then just screw that and have a guess? ;)
[22:34] stride: that's what they did up to this point :)
[22:34] satori_: hehe. Thats what compsci has been doing for 60 yrs :)
[22:34] satori_: it has massive implications for cryptography too
[22:38] jesusabdullah: The millennium problem I want to see solved is the Navier-Stokes one
[22:38] mape: which is attached in 10pt and 12pt fonts
[22:38] mape: <3 just wished he used comic sans
[22:38] stride: hah
[22:38] satori_: lol.
[22:39] satori_: Proving something in smaller fonts is a much more difficult task.
[22:40] stride: reminds me of one of my high school teachers, "your text is too long, make the font smaller"
[22:40] satori_: 
ACTION finished school too long ago to ever hand anything in digitally

[22:41] mape: satori_: should just print a black page and tell him to get better glasses
[22:41] mape: *stride
[22:41] satori_: My highschool pc was an amstrad 33Mhz PC
[22:41] satori_: with a turbo button!
[22:41] stride: I wish I would've had that idea back then :)
[22:42] stride: satori_: nice, think I was 12 the last time I saw a PC with a turbo btn
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[22:43] satori_: I wanted an amiga :(
[22:49] tmpvar: hrm, what am I doing wrong here? I keep getting a 404 on line 22 -:: http://gist.github.com/514654
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[22:56] siedrix: hi, im trying to deploy node to a server, is there a correct way to do it?
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[22:57] tk: siedrix: thats kinda like asking if there is a correct way to start a car...
[22:57] ryan_gahl: except that there is a correct way to start a car :)
[22:58] tk: ryan_gahl: and I'm sure there are wrong ways to deploy node too :P
[22:58] siedrix: i know there are a couple of bad ones... 
[22:58] ryan_gahl: yeah, like cygwin :)
[22:59] mape: pipe it through php
[22:59] tk: ryan_gahl: the point was the answer is "yes" to both questions :P
[22:59] siedrix: but there are some better way that "$ node index.js"?
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[23:00] mape: monit god?
[23:00] ryan_gahl: tk: point taken - i took it more like "no, there is no ONE correct way"
[23:00] tk: ryan_gahl: heh
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[23:03] stride: upstart was recommended here before
[23:03] daleharvey: hmm
[23:03] daleharvey: do included libraries export objects / functions?
[23:04] _announcer: Twitter: "Great article from @jkreeftmeijer on node.js and web sockets (http://bit.ly/9LfYrp)" -- Jason Smale. http://twitter.com/jwswj/status/20661075323
[23:04] daleharvey: seems a bit of a shame, that would make them not work particularly nicely if they were to be included client side?
[23:04] tmpvar: hrm, so node-mongodb-native doesnt pass all of its tests on 1.6.0
[23:04] stride: client side a.k.a. browser? they are not intended for that use anyway
[23:05] tmpvar: 
ACTION punches the monitor

[23:05] siedrix: because i found this tutorial with upstart and monit...  http://dailyjs.com/2010/03/15/hosting-nodejs-apps/
[23:05] mape: tmpvar: update seems wonky, adds a duplicate when i tried it last week, or I'm not using mongo properly
[23:05] daleharvey: stride: so you cant share utility libraries, and constants between server and client?
[23:06] stride: daleharvey: other node instances can load the same built-in libraries if you mean that
[23:06] tmpvar: i guess I could just use dirty for this
[23:06] tmpvar: or similar
[23:06] _announcer: Twitter: "Even though node.js isn't available on Windows it still get lots of traction. Good thing I guess." -- Carl Byström. http://twitter.com/cgbystrom/status/20661226709
[23:06] daleharvey: basically, I have http://pastebin.me/064be4ec6a57581341eccd9d3ae253a7 and would like to have those functions available between the browser and through node
[23:07] mape: Even though it isn't on Windows.. Can't imagine developing on windows :S
[23:07] stride: that looks pretty generic, you should be able to load that in a browser as well, though I don't know if that's your setting
[23:07] satori_: node work on windows ok with cygwin doesn;t it?
[23:08] stride: daleharvey: within node it would have to set exports.Util to your Util function
[23:08] pquerna: mape: git sux on windows :|
[23:08] pquerna: and most things do.
[23:08] mape: what doesn't+
[23:08] mape: *?
[23:08] pquerna: 
ACTION is almost done with a windows project in c+lua

[23:08] satori_: lol. I reckon Visual Studio is still the best IDE i have ever used
[23:08] pquerna: well, a *nix project, getting ported to windows :|
[23:09] tmpvar: daleharvey, something like: (function(public) { public.Util = { /* ... */ }; }((typeof window === "undefined") ? module.exports : window));
[23:09] _announcer: Twitter: "NodeGame: Shooter - Asteroids like multiplayer using Node.js and WebSockets http://ff.im/oW1xG" -- antest. http://twitter.com/antest/status/20661407614
[23:10] daleharvey: ah cool, thats nice, got scared there for a second :P
[23:10] pquerna: satori_: i agree. it is. but i've spent too long getting used to unix tools.  Visual Studio is a grat IDE. Windows is just.. different. Not always bad, but its not really "getting closer" to linux/osx type things over time, which is frustraiting building portable software.
[23:11] stride: windows development and visual studio got much too .Net centric the last years for my taste :/
[23:11] daleharvey: as for the format of the export, would that look like var Util = require("util.js"); Util.Util.randStr() ?  (currently getting an error trying plain Util.randStr()
[23:11] tmpvar: Util = require("util").Util
[23:11] stride: var Util = require('util'); Util.randStr() I guess
[23:11] mape: daleharvey: you can use modules.exports
[23:12] stride: meh :)
[23:12] daleharvey: ah brilliant, thanks
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[23:15] tmpvar: isaacs, I think you should keep the admin party around for a while in npm
[23:15] isaacs: tmpvar: really?
[23:15] isaacs: why's that?
[23:16] tmpvar: well, I have a tendency as of late to grab peoples tarballs and push them up there
[23:16] isaacs: heh
[23:16] jesusabdullah: What's the admin party?
[23:16] isaacs: tmpvar: you know, you can do npm owner add <whoever> <pkg>
[23:16] mape: admin party sounds like fun
[23:16] tmpvar: isaacs, I did not know that
[23:16] tmpvar: owner is an email?
[23:16] isaacs: no, owner is their username
[23:17] mape: does that transfer the ownership or add?
[23:17] isaacs: mape: adds
[23:17] mape: k
[23:17] isaacs: mape:  you can do npm owner rm <user> <pkg> to remove it
[23:17] isaacs: so you can add them, then delete yourself.
[23:17] tmpvar: isaacs, I like it
[23:17] mape: can I remove myself without adding anyone else?
[23:17] tmpvar: too bad we couldnt infer that from a repo
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[23:25] _announcer: Twitter: "Looking forward to trying out Geddy.js - node.js web framework: http://geddyjs.org/" -- Anthony Mann. http://twitter.com/MrNibbles/status/20662378901
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[23:31] tmpvar: mongoose works, thank god.
[23:31] tmpvar: honestly thought I was going insane there
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[23:56] Tobsn: geddy ha
[23:58] Tobsn: mongodb is missing in the example
[23:59] daleharvey: is there a nice way to serve files with the correct mime type