[00:00] creationix: I think so, transport sounds like a socket.io thing [00:00] ryah: rauchg_: does 27 Jul 00:54:19 - Illegal transport "socket.io.js" look familiar ? [00:00] rauchg_: :O [00:00] rauchg_: nop [00:00] rauchg_: are you using HEAD ? [00:01] ryah: yeah [00:01] rauchg_: what browser [00:01] ryah: oh i htink it's a connect thing [00:02] ryah: it's not serving the static file [00:02] rauchg_: http://gist.github.com/491485 [00:02] aheckmann has joined the channel [00:02] rauchg_: i see [00:02] rauchg_: what i do for my app [00:02] rauchg_: is clone the client in /public/js [00:03] rauchg_: i have an idea for 1.0 which might or might not be compelling for my userbase [00:03] rauchg_: i'd like to hear what you guys think [00:03] rauchg_: basically, socket.io could act as a proxy and interface directly with a websocket server [00:03] rauchg_: so you'd setup io.yourdomain.com [00:03] rauchg_: but in your web application server and client side you just write WebSocket implementations [00:03] rauchg_: and socket.io acts as a shim [00:03] rauchg_: proxying the requests [00:04] _announcer: Twitter: "OH: "You are irrelevant, Node.js is so much better, Ruby and Rails are just the new Cobol." #lol" -- Paul Barry. http://twitter.com/pjb3/status/19612879108 [00:04] rauchg_: so it'd even work if you're using erlang+mochikit+websocket, and you can use socket.io as a multi-transport proxy [00:04] rauchg_: so, when WebSocket is supported by all browsers you just drop the shim, and your app logic remains the same [00:04] siculars has joined the channel [00:05] JimBastard: !tweet @pjb3 lol ;-) [00:06] ryah: rauchg_: i don't like proxies [00:06] ryah: but maybe some people would [00:06] rauchg_: yeah, we'd still have a direct socket.io interface for node users [00:06] ryah: creationix: is staticprovider resursive? [00:06] ryah: er [00:06] ryah: recursive [00:06] rauchg_: yeah [00:06] ryah: i mean, does it go deep? [00:06] rauchg_: it does [00:06] creationix: ryah: it just does fs.readFIle by path [00:07] creationix: so yeah, anything under public should be visible [00:07] rauchg_: you can even have /public/js/vendor/someModule/main.css [00:07] ryah: hm [00:08] mitkok has joined the channel [00:08] zsoc has joined the channel [00:08] chewbranca has joined the channel [00:08] creationix: ryah: which connect are you using? the one from npm? [00:09] ryah: creationix: head [00:09] tpryme has joined the channel [00:09] creationix: ok, nevermind [00:09] Yuffster has joined the channel [00:09] _announcer: Twitter: "i'm looking anxiously to the day when server-side JS rules the entire web stack... couchdb, node.js, @sh1mmer's DNS server, etc." -- Kyle Simpson. http://twitter.com/getify/status/19613205494 [00:09] creationix: I recently fixed some bugs, but HEAD should be good [00:10] ryah: creationix: oh it seems to be the strange characters in the directory name [00:10] ryah: http://localhost:8000/socket.io-client/README.md [00:10] ryah: ^-- connect doesn't like that [00:10] creationix: can you send me a tarball to test? [00:10] creationix: should be easy to fix [00:11] rauchg_: creationix: [00:11] rauchg_: i ran into quite the edge case with connect the other day [00:11] ryah: it's a bit difficult at the moment - it's all twisted up with my joyent code [00:11] rauchg_: basically i started up several requests [00:11] ryah: but dirs with . or - chars, i think is the problem [00:11] rauchg_: some of which completed, some of them left hanging [00:11] creationix: ryah: ok, I'll just try that [00:12] creationix: rauchg_: what version of node [00:12] creationix: I had issues with v0.1.101 [00:12] rauchg_: but then, whatever route i tried to connect to, connect would try to go to the last one for which there was no .send() [00:12] creationix: rauchg_: no send()? [00:12] rauchg_: no .write() sorry [00:12] rauchg_: i'll try to reproduce and send a testcase [00:14] creationix: rauchg_: awesome [00:15] rauchg_: v8 now has function.prototype.bind, pretty awesome [00:15] creationix: yep [00:15] JimBastard: ACTION is twisting up doobie snacks on his brand new couchdb book, woot mikeal  [00:16] creationix: ryah: sorry, can't reproduce it [00:16] creationix: I made a simple app with your stack and put socket.io in the public folder [00:16] creationix: it serves just fine [00:16] _announcer: Twitter: "One of our resident Node developers, @visionmedia, on a recent InfoQ virtual panel: http://www.infoq.com/articles/nodejs-frameworks" -- Sencha. http://twitter.com/SenchaInc/status/19613662945 [00:17] benbinary: JimBastard: doobie snacks ftw [00:17] rauchg_: creationix: have you considered adding the option to send Expires headers along with Etags ? [00:18] creationix: rauchg_: instead of Last-Modified [00:18] creationix: rauchg_: the problem with Etags is I didn't have a native hash function at the time [00:19] creationix: but I think it's all exposed via crypto [00:19] ryah: creationix: it was called socket.io-client [00:19] rauchg_: ryah: if you rename it, does it work ? [00:19] creationix: ryah: yeah, I did that [00:19] ryah: yeah it's working now [00:19] rauchg_: interesting [00:20] rauchg_: btw, i'll be releasing 0.5 one of these days which is going to be 100% reliable in terms of detecting clients that don't disconnect gracefully, and faster since i'm dropping the JSON encoding [00:20] ryah: <3 socket.io [00:20] ryah: what a great concept [00:20] creationix: ryah: http://creationix.com:8000/socket.io-client/README.md [00:20] JimBastard: sup benbinary , welcome to node room [00:20] JimBastard: socket.io ++ [00:20] ryah: creationix: shrug [00:21] mape: rauchg_: have you talked to mrdoob about performanceissues he was having? [00:21] benbinary: JimBastard: heh, thanks man, heading home soon to do the same soon [00:21] creationix: ryah: let me know if you need anything from connect, it would be rad if Joyent ended up using it [00:22] rauchg_: mape: yep [00:22] rauchg_: that's why im dropping JSON [00:22] rauchg_: it makes sense [00:22] SubStack: hah we mention base64 and another mentions wanting to drop that dependency @ that article [00:22] c4milo has joined the channel [00:23] jamescarr has joined the channel [00:24] mape: rauchg_: nice, so mrdoobs drawing example should work with the new socket.io? [00:24] _announcer: Twitter: "@miksago Node.js websockets implementation being put to cool use : http://bit.ly/aMz8qV , excited to put node.js + websox to work." -- Nicolae Rusan. http://twitter.com/NicolaeRusan/status/19614141540 [00:24] rauchg_: mape: yup [00:25] rauchg_: i've ported 2 single player games to multiplayer games on top of socket.io for the 0.5 demo [00:25] rauchg_: i made google's pacman multiplayer [00:25] _announcer: Twitter: "virtual interview with #nodejs module maintainers. +1. http://www.infoq.com/articles/nodejs-frameworks" -- alexander sicular. http://twitter.com/siculars/status/19614204895 [00:25] mape: cool [00:25] rauchg_: and i'm trying to port a canvas implementation of super mario kart haha [00:25] rauchg_: that will surely win the knockout [00:25] rauchg_: everyone likes mario kart [00:25] voodootikigod_ has joined the channel [00:26] mape: hehe, yeah, but to do that in 48h [00:26] SubStack: fucking blue shells [00:26] rauchg_: hahahah [00:26] tk: lmao [00:26] rauchg_: man i'd like someone to do a thorough study on variance and what game style yields the best EV+ in mario kart [00:27] rauchg_: my guess is that it's staying between 3rd and 5th during almost the whole race [00:27] rauchg_: anyways back to work [00:27] _announcer: Twitter: "Has anyone benchmarked concurrent fibers-based Ruby web code against Node.js?" -- Michael Bleigh. http://twitter.com/mbleigh/status/19614366655 [00:27] SubStack: get the 3 red shells and coast on that [00:28] rauchg_: mape: this is the one im making realtime http://www.nihilogic.dk/labs/mariokart/ [00:28] _announcer: Twitter: "I forgot that making webapps with #nodejs is fun." -- Ryan Dahl. http://twitter.com/ryah/status/19614440723 [00:30] ryah: i should fix up my irc client :) [00:30] ryah: would be great with socket.io [00:30] mape: rauchg_: ah k, guess you'll have to do custom graphics as well then since nothing can be done prior [00:30] JimBastard: rauchg_: mario mutiplayer rules are the worst [00:30] JimBastard: rauchg_: staying in 1st in any mario multiplayer game is a recipe for getting pwnt [00:30] JimBastard: 3rd place until mid way through the second lap [00:30] JimBastard: seems right to me [00:31] sh1mmer: ryah: that's true [00:31] JimBastard: ive lost too much money in 1v1 mario kart for n64 [00:31] sh1mmer: ryah: I was playing with the original script but I couldn't get it working [00:31] sh1mmer: :( [00:31] sh1mmer: or rather it ran but I couldn't seem to connect [00:32] ryah: sh1mmer: the irc server? [00:32] creationix: rauchg_: any of your demos use connect? [00:32] sh1mmer: ryah: yeah [00:32] sh1mmer: I was going to use it as a demo at oscon [00:32] sh1mmer: I could only find 2 things out of date which were the use of require('tcp') and .close() [00:33] adrienf: is there any way to send some text to stderr ? [00:33] sh1mmer: sys.error [00:33] ryah: sh1mmer: i was also trying to get it running [00:33] ryah: before a talk last week [00:33] ryah: i spent only 4 minutes or so [00:34] ryah: but it's 99% working [00:34] ryah: http://s3.amazonaws.com/four.livejournal/20100726/web_ircd.tar.gz [00:34] ryah: i'm sure 5 minutes of your time will complete it [00:34] adrienf: sh1mmer: and without the trailing newline ? [00:34] ryah: the irc half of it seems to work [00:34] sh1mmer: ryah: ok, I'll take a look on the flight to boston on Wednesday [00:34] sh1mmer: when I have some down cycles [00:35] elliottcable: oh shit Astro [00:35] cardona507 has joined the channel [00:35] elliottcable: Astro 3» I remember you! [00:35] cardona507 has left the channel [00:35] sh1mmer: adrienf: not sure might be an arguement [00:35] sh1mmer: check the docs [00:35] elliottcable: Astro 3» (sorry about the, uh, days-delayed reaction; I just ran across your node-xmpp library) [00:35] adrienf: sh1mmer: sys.error is not even in the docs (at least not on nodejs.org) [00:35] sh1mmer: adrienf: sys.debug ? [00:36] sh1mmer: I'm remembering wrong :) [00:36] adrienf: nope, sys.debug adds "DEBUG: " before and a newline after :) [00:36] adrienf: and process.stderr does not exist [00:36] sh1mmer: adrienf: why not look at the sys.debug code [00:37] sh1mmer: node-src/lib/sys.js [00:37] sh1mmer: gtg [00:37] adrienf: maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I'd like to spawn a child process and plug child.stdout to process.stdout, child.stderr to what would be process.stderr, etc. [00:37] sh1mmer: bus to catch [00:37] sh1mmer: ttyl [00:37] adrienf: sh1mmer: thanks, that'll do [00:39] steadicat has joined the channel [00:39] ryah: adrienf: sys.pump(child.stdout, process.stdout) [00:39] ryah: stderr doesn't work as well [00:40] rauchg_: creationix: [00:41] rauchg_: i always use connect [00:41] rauchg_: from now on [00:41] rauchg_: staticProvider is a huge help [00:41] Tekerson has joined the channel [00:43] rauchg_: ryah: what do you think about connect extending the http natives? [00:43] adrienf: ryah: child.stderr.on('data', process.binding('stdio').writeError); [00:43] hij1nx has joined the channel [00:43] adrienf: now I've just got to figure how to deal with stdin… [00:44] creationix: rauchg_: have you thought about integrating socket.io's server-side tightly with connect [00:44] creationix: maybe have a router style interface for socket messages? [00:44] rauchg_: creationix: i've been thinking about that [00:44] mjr_: ryah: here are V8 and oprofile outputs while my tiny chunk proxy server is running at 100%: http://gist.github.com/491519 [00:44] rauchg_: or building middleware that makes it easy to do message passing etc [00:44] creationix: rauchg_: that would be cool [00:45] mjr_: ryah: seems kind of odd that neither oprofile nor V8 think they are at 100%, but they clearly are. [00:45] rauchg_: another cool thing i've been thinking of [00:45] creationix: connect is so request/response cycle oriented, I'm not sure [00:45] rauchg_: yeah but [00:45] rauchg_: we could for example [00:45] rauchg_: sync the session [00:45] ajpiano has joined the channel [00:45] rauchg_: with the socket.io connection that is fired with the event [00:45] rauchg_: so it'd be easy to access application data [00:45] rauchg_: as a dumb example [00:45] creationix: that would be nice [00:46] rauchg_: take the chat application that ships with socket.io [00:46] rauchg_: if you can access connection.session [00:46] rauchg_: then you could easily display the usernames [00:46] rauchg_: of the people logged in to the application [00:46] creationix: true, and their state [00:46] rauchg_: yep [00:46] rauchg_: so, there's definitely stuff to do there [00:46] rauchg_: in terms of making it easier to deal with sockets and regular request/response cycles [00:47] mattly has joined the channel [00:47] ryah: mjr_: 20% system time? [00:47] mjr_: ryah: yeah, roughly [00:48] ryah: 10% of user time is GC [00:48] mjr_: RSS is around 33MB, and does grow every so slightly. [00:48] mjr_: The "bottom up" section from the V8 profile is interesting. It says that Node::Write is WAY more expensive than Node::Read [00:49] ryah: where's that? [00:49] mjr_: Not that I know what either of those are, but it should be reading and writing the same things. [00:49] mjr_: Very bottom of that gist [00:49] mjr_: http://gist.github.com/491519 [00:49] ryah: oh right [00:51] ryah: what would make V8 report that it's at 100%? [00:52] tk: V8 using 100%? :P [00:52] tk: hmmm why is my desktop not online... [00:52] ryah: i mean what in the profile [00:52] maushu has joined the channel [00:53] mjr_: I dunno. top says that node is using 100%. [00:53] ryah: 20:45 < mjr_> ryah: seems kind of odd that neither oprofile nor V8 think they are at 100%, but they clearly are. [00:53] tekky has joined the channel [00:53] ryah: what did you mean? [00:53] mjr_: I just ran oprofile and node --prof to see what why [00:53] tekky: hmm apparently linkinus crashed... [00:53] SubStack: at least it's using all those wasted cycles [00:54] mjr_: I was expecting some numbers in the V8 profile or in oprofile to add up to 100%, but they don't get anywhere near there. [00:54] mjr_: Maybe I don't understand what they are reporting. [00:54] sh1mmer has joined the channel [00:54] tekky: or power failed... [00:55] benbinary has joined the channel [00:55] ryah: i think i'm going to use the google tech talk to explain my position on coroutines in some detail [00:56] sh1mmer: ryah: that would be nice [00:56] sh1mmer: and it seems like a good venue [00:56] MattJ: Since I'm thoroughly in favour of coroutines, I'll enjoy that talk :) [00:57] JimBastard: ohh man, doing midi mapping by hand, this is bringing me back [00:57] pedrobelo has joined the channel [00:59] meso has joined the channel [00:59] hassox has joined the channel [01:00] konobi: bah... need to get some time to get hacking on pack/unpack functionality again [01:02] jakehow has joined the channel [01:02] ryah: which can be summed up with: 1) inappropriate for js 2) doesn't mix well with CBs 3) not more efficent 4) their ease of use is, just, like, your opinion, man [01:02] ryah: and 5) let's see what new abstractions we can make if we restrict ourself away from threading [01:03] SubStack: reasoning about multiple execution paths in imperitive programming is hard [01:03] cardona507 has joined the channel [01:03] SubStack: in haskell it's not so bad on account of purity but in C it's insane [01:04] _announcer: Twitter: "Feeling crafty, researching WebSockets and node.js" -- Chris Bloom. http://twitter.com/chrisbloom7/status/19616559038 [01:04] jamescarr: whats the standard callback format? function(err, result) ? [01:06] softdrink has joined the channel [01:06] saikat has joined the channel [01:07] adrienf: done. anyone would like to have a look at this: http://github.com/afriggeri/node-auto-reload ? [01:07] MattJ: ryah: Developing a (Lua) server whose core resembles Node, but we're going for coroutines - I'll let you know how it went some way down the line :) [01:07] jamescarr: whats the standard callback format? function(err, result) ? [01:07] jamescarr: sorry about that [01:08] SubStack: standard? [01:08] SubStack: use whatever you think works best [01:08] jamescarr: meant to toggle to my terminal and rerun the last command [01:08] adrienf: jamescarr: function(err, arg1, arg2, ...) [01:08] hij1nx has joined the channel [01:08] ewdafa has joined the channel [01:09] MattJ: ryah: About the only downside we came up with is that it's no longer obvious in code where objects may have been changed externally - probably the only answer to this is smart locking [01:09] jamescarr: adrienf, so I thought, just checking [01:10] MattJ: I agree that coroutines aren't an answer to everything, but callbacks get tiresome when they're deeply nested [01:11] sh1mmer: MattJ: isn't that a programming style issue? [01:11] sh1mmer: MattJ: you should read creationix's articles on concurrency style [01:11] pufuwozu has joined the channel [01:11] MattJ: Not really - when you're 5 levels deep and counting [01:12] sh1mmer: but why did you get 5 levels deep in the first place [01:12] _announcer: Twitter: "I can understand how ppl got excited over the mouse cursor demo w/ NodeJS. You guys did see this shit tho amirite? http://stackvm.com/" -- xnoɹǝʃ uɐıɹq. http://twitter.com/brianleroux/status/19616986726 [01:12] MattJ: I obviously don't have an example in front of me right now, but it happens [01:13] sh1mmer: there are a patterns to avoid that [01:13] sh1mmer: 'pyramid code' is indeed ugly [01:13] sh1mmer: ok [01:13] SubStack: o_O [01:13] mjr_: It is very tempting to use anonymous functions everywhere, but that pretty quickly leads to mega-nesting. [01:13] SubStack: I don't see how people are crazy about stackvm yet. We haven't even rolled out the good parts yet. [01:14] sh1mmer: right [01:14] skampler_ has joined the channel [01:14] SubStack: video 2 should be genuinely impressive though [01:16] Wandrewvious has joined the channel [01:17] _announcer: Twitter: "break on through to the other side .. started to write a #haXe #nodejs #XMPP server :-) http://twurl.nl/20krzw src: http://twurl.nl/ekjwsl" -- tong. http://twitter.com/disktree/status/19617259828 [01:17] jamescarr: sigh [01:19] MattJ: Cheer up [01:20] MattJ: ACTION heads to bed, 'night all [01:22] stepheneb has joined the channel [01:24] phiggins has joined the channel [01:26] mattly has joined the channel [01:28] Yuffster has joined the channel [01:29] _announcer: Twitter: "cool example and tutorials of websockets with javascript: http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/" -- Tanya. http://twitter.com/ntanya/status/19618042452 [01:30] tmpvar has joined the channel [01:33] cardona507: that tutorial is going viral today [01:40] mikeal has joined the channel [01:40] victorstan has joined the channel [01:42] mjr_: ryah: unix socket REPL doesn't seem to work anymore the second time around because it won't unlink the socket file. I think this fixes it: http://github.com/mranney/node/commit/8e29172d968e91d009f31bc48a5fe53280d41807 [01:42] _announcer: Twitter: "Function.prototype.bind lands in node.js (v8 2.3.3) http://github.com/ry/node/commit/552cf28260af30e63ba4e67d0f6032ee96dfe3b5" -- Aaron Heckmann. http://twitter.com/aaronheckmann/status/19618906921 [01:42] jsilver has joined the channel [01:42] jsilver: hi guys [01:42] jsilver: anyone got any new resources on all-js web apps? [01:43] jakehow has joined the channel [01:43] mscdex: coffeeeee [01:43] jsilver: yes dude what about it [01:44] mscdex: i could use some [01:44] jsilver: ACTION is actually drinking tea right now [01:44] jsilver: _actually_ [01:44] jsilver: actually [01:44] mscdex: this isn't irc.markdown.net [01:44] mscdex: :p [01:44] jsilver: :F [01:44] jsilver: heh [01:45] jsilver: _why_not_?_ [01:45] jsilver: speaking of which [01:45] Tim_Smart has joined the channel [01:46] tmpvar: is node-htmlparser in npm? [01:46] jsilver: anyone seen or heard from why the lucky stiff ever again? [01:46] jsilver: :D [01:47] jsilver: whoops, wrong scene [01:47] mscdex: who huh? [01:47] jsilver: i wanna play with something [01:47] jsilver: what should i play with [01:47] jsilver: is express any good [01:47] jsilver: connect? [01:48] mscdex: node? [01:48] jsilver: yea [01:48] jsilver: agree [01:48] SubStack: jsilver: dnode! [01:48] jsilver: whats dnode again [01:48] mscdex: biased answer! [01:48] SubStack: it's the awesome that's what [01:48] SubStack: :p [01:48] jsilver: :s [01:48] jsilver: what the fuck guys [01:49] jsilver: :'( [01:49] mscdex: eh? [01:49] ceej has joined the channel [01:49] Blink7 has joined the channel [01:49] jsilver: what is it?~!?!?!? [01:49] mscdex: SubStack wrote it, ask him [01:49] jsilver: D:\ [01:49] mscdex: ;-) [01:49] SubStack: it's just this rpc thing [01:49] _announcer: Twitter: "@joedamato and memcache isn't fast because it's not built with node.js" -- whitney zoller. http://twitter.com/strangecurry/status/19619396279 [01:49] jsilver: d:x\ [01:49] SubStack: except you can pass callbacks around [01:49] SubStack: in arbitrarily nested data structures even [01:49] jsilver: okaaaaaaaaaaaay [01:49] jsilver: lol [01:50] jsilver: Kewliez [01:50] jsilver: where can i get a sampling of this [01:50] isaacs has joined the channel [01:50] SubStack: http://github.com/substack/dnode [01:50] cardona507: I am using ejs and am wondering how I get my views to be inside of layout.ejs? [01:51] isaacs: hi [01:52] sveimac has joined the channel [01:52] isaacs: SubStack: dnode is pretty baller [01:53] isaacs: SubStack: can you do crazy distributed erlangy mapreduce things with it? [01:53] jsilver: substack: you're crazy [01:53] isaacs: SubStack: it'd be neat to see an example of doing something really awesome, like calculating the mean of a trillion numbers or something. [01:53] SubStack: well the callbacks execute on the side they were first defined [01:53] SubStack: isaacs: well stackvm is built on dnode [01:54] jsilver: whats stackvm [01:54] jsilver: ????????????! [01:54] SubStack: http://stackvm.com/ [01:54] isaacs: jsilver is very inquisitive. [01:54] SubStack: seems so [01:55] aglemann has joined the channel [01:55] eyzn: ciaranj (github), are you here? [01:55] SubStack: dnode is mostly good for managing crazy complicated stuff [01:55] jsilver: how does that work? how does it use dnode? [01:55] jsilver: how do these hacks work? [01:56] SubStack: jsilver: for managing all the browser <-> server interaction and also some server <-> server communication [01:56] jsilver: wowzers [01:56] jsilver: ah [01:56] jsilver: nicely!!! [01:56] SubStack: for instance, you can create an object on the server side and then send it off to the client [01:56] SubStack: and when the client calls the methods on the object, they execute on the server [01:57] SubStack: it's a great way to build interfaces [01:57] SubStack: and all the communication is async [01:57] tmpvar: can you replicate the objects in different locations? [01:57] jsilver: yes i read that, sounds nice [01:57] tmpvar: browser object === server object [01:57] SubStack: tmpvar: replicate? [01:57] tmpvar: sync? [01:57] jsilver: i would use json... [01:58] tmpvar: i change a var in the browser and it propagates to the node on the server [01:58] SubStack: dnode is built on json [01:58] jsilver: yeah [01:58] tmpvar: the change is then pushed to other browsers who have that node [01:58] SubStack: all that's different is when it sees a callback in the stream, it pulls it out and does some magic [01:58] tmpvar: or is this just json rpc again? [01:59] SubStack: json rpc is just for passing data around [01:59] tmpvar: rpc? [01:59] SubStack: dnode wraps callbacks, totally different [01:59] tmpvar: k [01:59] tmpvar: ill have to believe you until i get a chance to play heh [02:00] WALoeIII has joined the channel [02:01] bradleymeck1 has joined the channel [02:02] bradleymeck1: howdy ho [02:02] jsilver: hihi hihi [02:03] bradleymeck1: who wants to come up w/ a good use case example for weak reference Collectors [02:03] jsilver: wat [02:04] jsilver: ??? [02:04] bradleymeck1: when an object is about to be garbage collected, firing off a function [02:04] jsilver: oh [02:04] SubStack: bradleymeck1: circular references [02:04] jsilver: destructor method?? [02:04] SubStack: ACTION cheated and read the wiki entry [02:06] jsilver: ACTION doesn't know obscure comp-sciency crap [02:06] jsilver: :) [02:06] SubStack: it comes in handy sometimes [02:06] jsilver: i read a book on TCP/IP when i was 14 [02:06] jsilver: that's my training [02:06] jsilver: ;) [02:06] bradleymeck1: kinda like a destructor, and substack we cant get real weak refs, only the collector callback unfortunately [02:07] SubStack: bradleymeck1: what are you trying to do? [02:08] CIA-77: node: 03Matt Ranney 07master * rf7c5334 10/ (doc/api.markdown lib/net.js): [02:08] CIA-77: node: Check for socket on Unix domain connect. [02:08] CIA-77: node: Change scope to context in REPL docs. - http://bit.ly/ajQ5Ap [02:08] CIA-77: node: 03Ryan Dahl 07master * rd489555 10/ src/node.cc : Use kqueue on recent macintosh builds - http://bit.ly/97QUUw [02:08] CIA-77: node: 03Ryan Dahl 07master * rb3c0359 10/ src/node.cc : Only one line break before stacktrace - http://bit.ly/az8rsF [02:08] bradleymeck1: i made collector callbacks available while researching how to impl ephemeron tables in v8, just wondering a good use case [02:09] jsilver: SubStack how does stackvm work [02:09] jsilver: ACTION wants to learn how to write all JS web apps [02:10] jsilver: front-to-back [02:10] tjgillies: is there built in base64 decode/encode in nodejs? only thing i saw remotely closw was Buffer encoding, but the base64 part is't very verbose [02:10] tjgillies: close* [02:11] jamescarr_ has joined the channel [02:13] dshaw has joined the channel [02:14] SubStack: jsilver: http://github.com/substack/stackvm is how [02:14] mikeal: tjgillies: yes [02:14] mikeal: it's part of the crypto library [02:15] mikeal: you have to compile with crypto tho [02:15] SubStack: jsilver: most every vm thing has a vnc backend also [02:16] tjgillies: mikeal, i have crypto library, i don't see it documented anywhere on the nodejs.org page though [02:16] tjgillies: mikeal, the base64 part i mean [02:17] mikeal: hash.digest(encoding='base64') [02:17] mikeal: wait, that isn't what you want [02:18] tjgillies: i just want basic base64 encode/decode [02:18] SubStack: npm install base64 [02:18] tjgillies: SubStack, thnx, there a link to docs for that by any chance? [02:19] bradleymeck1: mmm so circular references... [02:19] SubStack: tjgillies: http://github.com/pkrumins/node-base64 [02:19] jsilver: SubStack: why have you written so much code for node [02:19] jsilver: balla [02:19] mikeal: i could have sworn someone exposed it [02:19] SubStack: balla? [02:20] jsilver: ball'r [02:20] SubStack: I haven't even written very much. [02:20] jsilver: well sorry then [02:20] jsilver: JayKay [02:20] jsilver: ;) [02:20] jakehow has joined the channel [02:20] SubStack: only like 5 modules [02:20] jsilver: happy javascripting mate i'm only joshin' ya [02:20] SubStack: actually only 4 of those are modules, one is a project [02:20] tjgillies: SubStack, thanks [02:20] SubStack: kk [02:21] tpryme has joined the channel [02:21] SubStack: I only first heard about node in March or April [02:22] tjgillies: SubStack, why does arg to base64.encode need to be a buffer? [02:23] SubStack: ask pkrumins, he wrote it [02:23] JimBastard has joined the channel [02:23] aheckmann: ryah: the upgrade to V8 v 2.3.3 comes with Function.prototype.bind support which isn't ready for prime time [02:24] aheckmann: they've got a leftover global.print call that throws [02:24] SubStack: tjgillies: anyways, you can just do this: [02:24] SubStack: node> base64.encode(new Buffer('moo')) [02:25] tjgillies: SubStack, thnx [02:26] ryah: aheckmann: heh [02:26] _announcer: Twitter: "Node.js is genuinely exciting: http://bit.ly/dafrlk" -- Hernan Garcia. http://twitter.com/theprogrammer/status/19621868010 [02:26] manveru: base64 was added finally? [02:26] ryah: yes [02:27] manveru: neat :) [02:27] ryah: but not with the api that SubStack just posted [02:27] SubStack: which version has base64? [02:27] manveru: that should boost my speed a bit... [02:28] ryah: http://github.com/ry/node/blob/28db0c2562ae7395dd01a034294fcda67fb9be71/test/simple/test-buffer.js#L246-259 [02:28] SubStack: it was .toString('base64') or some such on Buffers right? [02:28] SubStack: click [02:28] SubStack: aha [02:28] SubStack: ACTION 's node is a bit stale [02:28] _announcer: Twitter: "RE my earlier tweet on node.js Function.prototype.bind support: it's broken (v8) so don't use it yet." -- Aaron Heckmann. http://twitter.com/aaronheckmann/status/19622013787 [02:29] ryah: aheckmann: you should report that [02:29] aheckmann: ryah: i reported it to them. [02:29] ryah: ok [02:29] aheckmann: ryah: i think [02:29] aheckmann: ryah: where do you do it? [02:30] ryah: google code issues page [02:30] aheckmann: ryah: i commented on the code review [02:30] _announcer: Twitter: "Experimenting with Node.js - http://su.pr/1czCVy" -- eBot. http://twitter.com/kicauan/status/19622114043 [02:30] aheckmann: ryah: will do [02:30] shimondoodkin has joined the channel [02:30] jashkenas has joined the channel [02:31] ryah: rauchg_: do the socket.io things return false ? [02:31] ryah: if the send buffer is full? [02:31] jashkenas: is there an ECMA Harmony or ES5-discuss IRC room? [02:31] jchris has joined the channel [02:32] ryah: jashkenas: irc.mozilla.org #js ? [02:32] _announcer: Twitter: "I keep drafting a tweet about Node.js. Suffice to say, I don't begrudge anyone a tool they enjoy using, but I am more than a bit skeptical." -- Alex Payne. http://twitter.com/al3x/status/19622271040 [02:32] JimBastard: sup jchris [02:32] jashkenas: thanks ryah. [02:32] JimBastard: ^_^ [02:32] jamescarr_: jashkenas, what ryah said, thats the best you can get [02:32] jamescarr_: I'd like to find a pure ES5 only channel [02:33] tjgillies: es5 sounds hot [02:34] guybrush has joined the channel [02:36] softdrink has joined the channel [02:37] jwcooper has joined the channel [02:37] isaacs has joined the channel [02:40] bradleymeck1: jashkenas mmm? [02:40] bradleymeck1: i tend to write up some harmony things for node in my spare time [02:41] jashkenas: I just wanted to ask about Harmony choosing "this is $interpolated or ${interpolated}" ... given that "$" is a valid part of an identifier in JS. [02:41] jashkenas: Is it just an empty strawman, or is the dollar sign actually the proposed sigil -- instead of something that *can't* be used as part of a variable name. [02:42] jashkenas: http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=strawman:string_interpolation [02:43] rwaldron__ has joined the channel [02:46] bradleymeck1: those havent been touched in a while, no one is interested in strings or regexps /cry [02:46] jashkenas: so I shouldn't take "$" as gospel then... thanks. [02:47] jashkenas: I tried grepping the mailing lists, but it doesn't seem to have been discussed there. [02:48] tmpvar: yikes, its libxmljs stable? [02:49] _announcer: Twitter: "nDistro --nodejs distribution toolkit. Create and install distros in seconds http://bit.ly/d6smjT" -- TJ Holowaychuk. http://twitter.com/tjholowaychuk/status/19623387627 [02:50] stepheneb has joined the channel [02:51] TommyM has joined the channel [02:52] mikeal: is that distributions of node.js or distributions of packages? [02:52] Yuffster has joined the channel [02:53] guybrush: packages as it seems [02:53] mikeal: why not npm? [02:53] isaacs: mikeal: because npm isn't buggy enough any more. [02:53] mikeal: hahahaha [02:53] isaacs: :P [02:54] SubStack: isaacs: seems better lately at least [02:54] isaacs: SubStack: the next version will work a lot better with ivy, too [02:54] isaacs: relative links! [02:55] tmpvar: fun, when can it automatically compile addons? :P [02:55] isaacs: tmpvar: soon. next version maybe, if i get to it this week [02:55] isaacs: . [02:55] tmpvar: slick [02:55] isaacs: tmpvar: http://github.com/isaacs/npm/issues is a roughly prioritized list [02:56] tmpvar: very cool [02:57] isaacs: the problem with issue #72 is that read-json.js is like 3 times too clever. [02:57] isaacs: and that's where i need to make that change, so i'm gonna just strip that thing way way down. [02:58] tmpvar: ah [02:59] _announcer: Twitter: "@SenchaInc are you going to offer node.js+express hosting à la appengine? :D" -- Patrick Aljord. http://twitter.com/patcito/status/19624103531 [03:01] _announcer: Twitter: "[uniknotions.com] Multi-Core HTTP Server with NodeJS (Yahoo! Developer Network Blog): NodeJS has been garnering a ... http://bit.ly/asr9vx" -- uniknotions. http://twitter.com/uniknotions/status/19624186472 [03:03] damienkatz has joined the channel [03:03] damienkatz has joined the channel [03:04] isaacs has joined the channel [03:04] bradleymeck1: grrr revival of weak refs is not working as expected [03:05] isaacs: ack, convention over configuratin. [03:05] isaacs: can i tell you, I really abhor that. [03:06] Yuffster has joined the channel [03:07] isaacs: i think there are two noders who prefer convention over configuration, and they both work at sencha. [03:07] SubStack: they must be recovering rails programmers [03:08] cardona507 has joined the channel [03:08] tmpvar: bradleymeck1, can you hit me up when that is ready? [03:08] ditesh|cassini has joined the channel [03:08] bradleymeck1: just checking for leaks [03:08] tmpvar: alright, cool [03:08] bradleymeck1: i think revivals arent leaking anymore [03:08] isaacs: it's just a recipe for holy wars. [03:09] tmpvar: jsdom is sort of on the backburner while i get the core of carena completed.. but I'll be back in full swing here in a week or 2 [03:09] mikeal: there is this school of thought that says [03:09] mikeal: the farther someone can get without knowing what is actually going on [03:09] mikeal: the better [03:09] mikeal: and I can't fucking stand that [03:09] tmpvar: lol [03:09] mikeal: that's what convention over configuration is all about [03:09] bradleymeck1: tmpvar i should have weak ref collectors and ephemeron tables by then, could do some srs damage w/ the leaking problems im facing in working on my dom impl [03:09] isaacs: well, with a package.json, you just go "my stuff works like this", and npm goes, "ok, great!" [03:10] isaacs: dinner time. [03:10] mikeal: shit just works and is pure magic without you knowing how to do anything [03:10] mikeal: but as soon as it doesn't work, you're fucked [03:10] tmpvar: bradleymeck1, cool [03:10] bradleymeck1: principle of least surprise, i hear it from python ppl and i hate it [03:10] mikeal: as soon as you get "off the rails" you have no clue how things are actually constructed [03:10] bradleymeck1: open up the console man~ just type what you want man~ [03:11] tmpvar: haha [03:11] mikeal: programming isn't that hard [03:11] riottaba has joined the channel [03:11] mikeal: pretty much anyone can learn it [03:11] mikeal: don't treat people like idiots [03:11] mikeal: show them how things work and let them grow as programmers, stay away from "magic" [03:11] tmpvar: mikeal, is this directed at someone in particular, or are you just ranting? heh [03:12] mikeal: just ranting [03:12] mikeal: i also hate rails [03:12] halorgium: mikeal: fly over here, kthx [03:12] mikeal: fly where? [03:12] mikeal: i'm already on the opposite coast that I'm usually at [03:12] halorgium: heh, ok. [03:12] halorgium: drive here then [03:12] bradleymeck1: mikeal i have been told those by programmers [03:13] bradleymeck1: w/o the :man: part [03:13] tmpvar: poor poor libxmljs, it segfaults on gc :( [03:13] mikeal: that's not good [03:14] ironfroggy: so I have been looking at a lot of long-poll/comet/web-socket options, but everything seems either unsupported across browsers (websocket) or built on top of some high-level protocol (Bayeux, etc.) [03:14] tmpvar: !seen polotek [03:14] ironfroggy: is there something I'm missing to understand just a low-level thing i can use here? [03:14] bradleymeck1: ironfroggy websockets have a flashbridge, example on newsgroup [03:14] mikeal: polotek is dodging me :) [03:14] tmpvar: heh heh [03:14] mikeal: he didn't come to the meetup [03:14] tmpvar: oh, he's in the city? [03:15] tjgillies: anyone know a good session module? [03:15] tmpvar: _the_ city [03:15] ironfroggy: why did websockets have to be built in a way that couldn't be implemented in current browsers, when we could already do most of it before websocket? [03:15] mikeal: he's in DC [03:15] mikeal: and i'm in NYC this week [03:15] ironfroggy: i dont really get it. im probably missing something. [03:15] tmpvar: mikeal, yeah dude, we met ;) [03:15] mitkok has joined the channel [03:15] mikeal: oh yeah, haha [03:15] rwaldron__: anybody here ever listen to Bad Brains? [03:15] mikeal: dude, it's been a long week [03:15] mikeal: rwaldron: oh yes [03:15] bradleymeck1: ironfroggy, the ability to have raw socket access wasnt something they wanted to give out freely, flash did for the most part [03:16] _announcer: Twitter: "@batasrki @voodootikigod that's not the point for me. It's that people are writing tools to let REAL devs write REAL apps with node.js." -- Evan Light. http://twitter.com/elight/status/19625216058 [03:16] rwaldron__: anytime i see "D.C." or hear "D.C." i cant help but recite the chorus to banned in DC in my head [03:16] ironfroggy: bradleymeck1: but im not talking about raw socket access, nor was i under the impression that that is what websockets are [03:16] gwoo has joined the channel [03:16] mikeal: this is fuckign great [03:17] mikeal: brian leroux replied to isaacs [03:17] mikeal: @mikeal: @izs ((convention > configuration) && (convention < configuration)) [03:17] mikeal: // true! #wtfjs (via @brianleroux) HAHAHA! [03:17] mikeal: oh wait, that was my retweet [03:17] mikeal: weird [03:17] mikeal: @izs ((convention > configuration) && (convention < configuration)) [03:17] mikeal: // true! #wtfjs [03:18] paul__ has joined the channel [03:18] bradleymeck1: ironfroggy, they are darn close, they mainly just wrap the msgs in a http msg [03:19] bradleymeck1: plus using ajax etc would encourage long polling, which is not ideal [03:20] SubStack: ironfroggy: socket.io [03:20] jimmy_ has joined the channel [03:20] jimmy_: irc client in node.js? [03:20] SubStack: has fallbacks that work all the way down to ie5 [03:20] lachlanhardy has joined the channel [03:21] bradleymeck1: tmpvar, its out on node-overloads' ephemeron branch with a test file [03:21] bradleymeck1: wont pack it onto npm til tables are done [03:22] JimBastard has joined the channel [03:22] tmpvar: smooth, ill keep an eye on it [03:22] ironfroggy: SubStack: thanks, reading up [03:22] JimBastard: hey tmpvar what does 99:20 mean in TIME column when i do ps -ax [03:23] ironfroggy: bradleymeck1: from a technical standpoint, what is the difference between long polling and an open tcp connection? [03:23] JimBastard: nm [03:23] tmpvar: heh [03:23] tmpvar: im guessing 99 minutes? [03:23] tmpvar: *shrug* [03:23] SamuraiJack has joined the channel [03:24] ironfroggy: i know the difference basically, but practically it seems like it makes a lot of difference, aside from being used as intended. but what good is intent? [03:24] hij1nx: sudo sysctl -w kern.sysv.shmmax=167772160 kern.sysv.shmmin=1 kern.sysv.shmmni=32 kern.sysv.shmseg=8 kern.sysv.shmall=65536 [03:24] hij1nx: fuck, wrong window [03:24] tmpvar: aha, he's freeing documents after he cleans up the libxml parser (somehow) [03:24] JimBastard: yeah so thats only a month of uptime, not that impressive [03:25] JimBastard: sup hij1nx , go team nyc nodejitsu ninjas [03:25] sintaxi_ has joined the channel [03:25] bradleymeck1: ironfroggy 2 things, 1 there is a gap time or overlap time between connections depending on implementation (gap means possibly dropped msgs, overlap means multiple connections for single resource), 2 long polling doesnt flush memory and can waste a lot [03:25] kodisha has joined the channel [03:25] tmpvar: you guys have some real competition [03:25] tmpvar: the nodebodies are going to pwn [03:25] JimBastard: i have no legs [03:25] bradleymeck1: pfff i got me and my gf, we will take you all on [03:25] JimBastard: i plan on getting very drunk and belligerent for the contest, thats my plan [03:26] tmpvar: lol [03:26] JimBastard: we gonna be hosting in a big space ;-) [03:26] tmpvar: 48 hours of drunk bastard.. i dunnoooo [03:26] JimBastard: ill take a nap its cool [03:26] JimBastard: i still think "the best node.js framework ever" is the best project [03:27] bradleymeck1: i need to read up more on the streaming flv that was made w/ webcam [03:27] wilmoore has joined the channel [03:28] kodisha: hey guys, i'm trying to push one project in my company to be done in node, but most of our servers are ether eight or quad core, the guys who will make decision will investigate in node, and find out about single thread stuff.. what arguments should i use against that, what design approaches and patterns can be used to utilize all cores? [03:28] tmpvar: run more processes! [03:28] tmpvar: or use workers [03:29] bradleymeck1: workers can be nice since they can pass around fds [03:29] freeformz has joined the channel [03:29] rwaldron__: workers are my jammy-jam. [03:29] rwaldron__: on the client that is. [03:30] rwaldron__: i have yet to dig that far with node.js... jesus i feel like such a newb again. its nice, kind of, but not really [03:30] JimBastard: kodisha: use Spark [03:31] JimBastard: kodisha: or Connect [03:31] rwaldron__: like "hi everyone, i'm a professional javascript developer, gettin' paid like a mother fucker, but here's this new thing that i'm doin' all baby step like" [03:31] freeformz: I'm experimenting with a simple datagram server ... I can get it to run when not specifying an address to bind, but when I do .. I get the following error message: ReferenceError: port is not defined ... dgram:108 ... binding.bind(self.fd, port, arguments[1]); [03:31] JimBastard: woah irc explosion today [03:31] JimBastard: everyone go to http://github.com/marak [03:31] JimBastard: ^_^ [03:31] tmpvar: nub [03:32] bradleymeck1: you just want frontpage again [03:32] JimBastard: that guy is unstoppable [03:32] JimBastard: i saw him on hacker news and front-page of github [03:32] JimBastard: i heard he's been banned from every website ever [03:32] tmpvar: freeformz, what is wrong with using an addy? [03:32] SubStack: JimBastard: they are threatening your precious irc lead on nodejs.se [03:32] JimBastard: nooooooooo [03:32] JimBastard: myyyy preccciiiiouusususususs [03:32] deanlandolt_home has joined the channel [03:32] kodisha: rwaldron__: wtf? [03:32] freeformz: tmpvar: I'd like to specify a particular address to listen on instead of 0.0.0.0 [03:32] deanlandolt_home has left the channel [03:33] freeformz: tmpvar: when I call server.bind() it works ... but when I call server.bind(,
) it throws the error I mentioned. [03:33] JimBastard: kodisha: http://github.com/senchalabs/spark [03:33] tmpvar: freeformz, ah, i must have misread [03:33] rwaldron__: kodisha: wtf indeed. [03:33] rwaldron__: ? [03:33] rwaldron__: apologies for that weird rant. [03:34] JimBastard: rwaldron__ can i have some of that internet money [03:35] rwaldron__: we're hiring. [03:35] rwaldron__: but its onsite [03:35] rwaldron__: live in mass? [03:35] rwaldron__: can you drive to boston? [03:35] JimBastard: i live in a mass of awesomeness at all times [03:35] rwaldron__: can you write javascript that wont make me vomit? [03:35] freeformz: wait wth ... I must have typod and been too tired. [03:35] JimBastard: is it mozilla? [03:35] freeformz: 'cause it works now. [03:36] rwaldron__: hahahaha... err no [03:36] JimBastard: the only job id take in boston is being JohnResig [03:36] rwaldron__: http://bocoup.com [03:36] rwaldron__: he doesnt live in boston [03:36] tmpvar: freeformz, that makes sense :: http://github.com/ry/node/blob/master/lib/dgram.js#L106 -- if you didnt provide a real address it looks like it may blow up [03:36] rwaldron__: he lives in somerville [03:36] rwaldron__: down the street from my girlfriend [03:37] freeformz: tmpvar: thx. probably means I should go to sleep instead of muching with this. ;-) [03:37] guybrush: rwaldron__: cool some of your guys are behind processing.js - i like it [03:37] JimBastard: yeah JohnResig is totally banging your girlfriend #bastardfacts [03:38] cataska has joined the channel [03:38] rwaldron__: guybrush yep thats us [03:38] rwaldron__: and the burst animation engine [03:38] guybrush: very nice code [03:39] rwaldron__: (the only one with fo' real sync'ed multiple timelines and key framing) [03:39] bradleymeck1: im sorry my code makes everyone vomit [03:39] bradleymeck1: but it works [03:39] _announcer: Twitter: "@elight @voodootikigod that'd probably send me into ecstasy, as I'm doing a project in nodejs that'll eventually need a payment system." -- Srdjan Pejic. http://twitter.com/batasrki/status/19626802373 [03:39] rwaldron__: and my baby, jquery.hive/pollen [03:40] mitkok has joined the channel [03:40] bradleymeck1: plus my addiction to eval to gain speed after startup... well... its a vice [03:40] EyePulp has joined the channel [03:40] rwaldron__: gotta run [03:41] rwaldron__: later [03:41] tmpvar: peace [03:41] tmpvar: bradleymeck1, for speed? [03:43] tmpvar: i thought eval was .. slow at best [03:43] Tekerson has joined the channel [03:43] tmpvar: new context and whatnot [03:44] _announcer: Twitter: "Looking for a nail to hit with my node.js hammer." -- Adam Stiles. http://twitter.com/ajstiles/status/19627128869 [03:45] tmpvar: clever.. [03:45] dshaw: Someone go tell @ajstiles we need a routing framework. [03:46] derferman has joined the channel [03:46] bradleymeck1: tmpvar its compile is slow as sin, but its code gen is the same as anything else in v8 :) Function() is slow always sadly [03:47] tmpvar: a [03:47] tmpvar: ahh* [03:49] dshaw: bradleymeck1: What's your github handle. I'd love to check out what you're doing with eval. [03:49] bradleymeck1: i tend to not post eval stuff on github, those are personal, but if i remember right jade uses same technique [03:50] bradleymeck1: github handle is bmeck [03:50] dshaw: See, it makes you feel dirty too. [03:50] bradleymeck1: i feel dirty, but also i feel soo good [03:50] dshaw: Had to use eval to load Sizzle.js because I needed a window and document context. [03:51] dshaw: ew [03:51] o_o has joined the channel [03:51] tmpvar: dshaw, yeah.. the joys of the browser :/ [03:51] bradleymeck1: didnt use runInNew context? [03:51] tmpvar: are you dshaw on github? [03:51] dshaw: that's me [03:52] dshaw: …and twitter [03:52] dshaw: I was bitching about jsdom over the weekend. [03:52] tmpvar: ah shit [03:52] tmpvar: saying what? [03:53] dshaw: Trying to make sense of it all. [03:53] tmpvar: thats its a slow moving glacier, or that it sucks? [03:53] tmpvar: haha [03:53] dshaw: Actually, it doesn't suck. [03:53] tmpvar: yeah, it just hasn't had its "fun" birthday yet [03:53] dshaw: Figuring out that … that's the hard part. [03:54] bradleymeck1: yub, we are going to work on that glacier part [03:55] dshaw: I'd love to help more but need to step up my understanding of the DOM before I can really untangle that beast. [03:55] dshaw: Also, server side, I think that there's a really strong place for the insanely minimal possible DOM. [03:56] tmpvar: dshaw, yeah, I agree [03:56] dshaw: Perhaps that doesn't even meet spec. [03:56] benburkert has joined the channel [03:56] tmpvar: uhh, so what does it implement? [03:56] dshaw: ….or I should say, cover the full spec. [03:56] dshaw: Yeah, that's what I've been trying to hash out in my mind. [03:57] ajpiano has joined the channel [03:57] dshaw: Also, it depends on what you want to do with the DOM. [03:57] dshaw: I just really wanted to use Sizzle. [03:57] tmpvar: vodooo magic I say! [03:59] dshaw: I woke up Saturday morning with the stupid idea that I wanted to write a web crawler in node. [04:00] dshaw: Regex on html is iffy, so I decided to turn to what I knew with selectors and looking at the data loaded in a DOM. [04:00] hij1nx: dshaw: what problems were you having with jsdom? i had sizzle working [04:00] hij1nx: dshaw: i think sizzle works out of the box, clean pull [04:00] hij1nx: hehe [04:01] ajpiano has joined the channel [04:02] bradleymeck1 has joined the channel [04:02] jamescarr has joined the channel [04:02] chrischris has joined the channel [04:02] tjgillies has joined the channel [04:02] mjijackson has joined the channel [04:02] chapel has joined the channel [04:02] mqt has joined the channel [04:02] pkrumins has joined the channel [04:02] TrisMcC has joined the channel [04:02] LionMade0fLions has joined the channel [04:02] hober has joined the channel [04:02] onar has joined the channel [04:02] stride has joined the channel [04:02] rphillips has joined the channel [04:02] inimino has joined the channel [04:02] philippbosch has joined the channel [04:02] elbart has joined the channel [04:02] mikejs has joined the channel [04:02] hij1nx: tmpvar: speaking of voodoo, node-ogl looks low on commits =) [04:02] dshaw: hij1nx: yes sizzle works fine [04:02] sztanpet has joined the channel [04:02] tmpvar: yep [04:02] tmpvar: once you get sizzle you can run PURE :) [04:02] tmpvar: which is awesome sauce [04:02] moqq_ has joined the channel [04:02] tmpvar: hij1nx, its a modified copy of Sizzle unfortunately [04:02] moqq_ has joined the channel [04:02] tmpvar: i didnt want to do the eval ;) [04:02] derferman has left the channel [04:03] dshaw: :) [04:03] dshaw: I feel you. [04:03] nobodyfound has joined the channel [04:04] dshaw: I went back and tried the eval approach on Sunday. 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has joined the channel [04:05] aakour has joined the channel [04:05] s0enke has joined the channel [04:05] ashb has joined the channel [04:05] Connorhd has joined the channel [04:05] Roelven has joined the channel [04:05] gbot2 has joined the channel [04:05] Atmoz has joined the channel [04:05] tsyd has joined the channel [04:05] coffeecup has joined the channel [04:05] Pilate has joined the channel [04:05] jakob has joined the channel [04:05] zhesto has joined the channel [04:05] innu has joined the channel [04:05] konobi has joined the channel [04:06] dshaw: jsdom seems like a bit of a dependency hairball and I just wanted to take a stab at cleaning up some separations of concern. [04:06] dshaw: Sizzle just seemed to be the easiest bit to get my feet wet with. [04:07] dshaw: I actually think Sizzle will be a fairly stable bit of code. [04:08] dshaw: However, if Resig does update it, it would be nice if it were just a drop in. 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joined the channel [04:08] persson has joined the channel [04:08] NickP has joined the channel [04:08] aakour has joined the channel [04:08] s0enke has joined the channel [04:08] ashb has joined the channel [04:08] Connorhd has joined the channel [04:08] Roelven has joined the channel [04:08] gbot2 has joined the channel [04:08] Atmoz has joined the channel [04:08] tsyd has joined the channel [04:08] coffeecup has joined the channel [04:08] Pilate has joined the channel [04:08] jakob has joined the channel [04:08] zhesto has joined the channel [04:08] innu has joined the channel [04:08] konobi has joined the channel [04:09] dshaw: That got me thinking about what the minimum I'd need to get Sizzle propped up, since that's 90% of what I wanted anyway. 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[04:16] tekky: dshaw: what isnt working with Sizzle or have oyu not tried it yet? 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has joined the channel [04:18] zhesto has joined the channel [04:18] innu has joined the channel [04:18] konobi has joined the channel [04:19] dshaw: tekky: if it had stopped. [04:19] dshaw: brb [04:19] dshaw has left the channel [04:19] dshaw has joined the channel [04:19] bradleymeck1: is the split done? [04:19] dshaw: Hmm. [04:19] tekky: bradleymeck1: hopefully [04:19] dshaw: bradleymeck1: doesn't look like it. [04:20] tekky: dshaw: cool, was curious about that, did it require any modications or just jsdom+sizzle and it was good? [04:20] _announcer: Twitter: "Nice node.js demo (if your browser supports websockets): http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/" -- Jason J. Gullickson. http://twitter.com/jasongullickson/status/19629483468 [04:21] dshaw: I had to do a bit of hacking to pull in the latest node-httpparser [04:21] tmpvar: ill be back in a few [04:22] bradleymeck1: if someone else says old browsers cant have websockets imma scream [04:22] dshaw: Also trying to make sense of which bit of JSCOM you need to pull in was a bit of a challenge. [04:22] tekky: old browsers cant hvae websockets? [04:22] bradleymeck1: there i woke up the neighbor [04:22] tekky: lol [04:22] dshaw: bradleymeck1: I block flash anyway. :-P [04:23] tekky: bradleymeck1: if you are meaning via flash thats still not a 'browser' feature :P [04:23] jamescarr: damn [04:23] bradleymeck1: you may, but at times it is nice [04:23] dshaw: And run bleeding edge nightlies.... [04:23] bradleymeck1: flash can still outdo browsers in many ways, audio, video, subpixel rendering, fonts, timing, ... [04:23] benburkert has joined the channel [04:24] dshaw: And I have a contract doing Flex for you… :) [04:24] tekky: except w/o the browser flash (in terms of web) is useless :P [04:24] siculars has joined the channel [04:24] bradleymeck1: i think knowing its strengths is good, not just blindly blocking it, plus there just is no support for Apples webcams outside of objc besides flash [04:24] n3v3le has joined the channel [04:25] bradleymeck1: i have it partially running inside of node [04:25] _announcer: Twitter: "@al3x Occurs to me that multi-threaded nodeJS might be the moral equivalent of Rack." -- Tim Bray. http://twitter.com/timbray/status/19629766899 [04:25] dshaw: woah [04:25] bradleymeck1: npapi is blowing up too much to use [04:25] bradleymeck1: but thats on hold [04:25] dshaw: I block Flash because it performs like ass on Mac webkit [04:25] tekky: my biggest complaint with flash is that 99.99999999999999999% of flash devs do 0 a11y support.... [04:26] _announcer: Twitter: "[The] [from mrphoebs] Experimenting with Node.js - Jeff Kreeftmeijer: http://url4.eu/6RRBw" [ca] -- sldfjd ldajds. http://twitter.com/sldfjd/status/19629841318 [04:26] bradleymeck1: i just use flash when i need features not available to js [04:26] bradleymeck1: the compression ratio on flash is terribad [04:26] tekky: ACTION dislikes not being able to use the keyboard to fill out a form [04:26] bradleymeck1: ACTION agrees [04:26] dshaw: tekky: +! [04:27] dshaw: number one complaint about Flex [04:27] coobr has joined the channel [04:27] dshaw: grumble grumble [04:27] bradleymeck1: flex has many complaints [04:27] coobr has joined the channel [04:27] mscdex: wow.... so websocket draft 76 doesn't work with haproxy [04:28] mscdex: thanks to ian hickson [04:28] mscdex: ;\ [04:28] bradleymeck1: does haproxy not support upgrade? [04:28] mscdex: it does [04:28] dmcquay has joined the channel [04:28] dshaw: Other than that (and Flash basically being a dog on Mac), Flash and I are cool. [04:28] mscdex: but since the headers are not designed to be compatible with HTTP, haproxy can't deal with them [04:28] bradleymeck1: dshaw almost everything is a dog on Mac [04:29] mscdex: draft 75 works just fine though, because it is more HTTP-like [04:29] mscdex: in the upgrade headers [04:29] dshaw: bradleymeck1: :-P [04:29] dmcquay: anyone around here have an opinion about socket.io vs websocket-client/server? [04:29] bradleymeck1: i mean, usb from objC is slower than... [04:29] tekky: bradleymeck1: hmmm everything works faster on my macs.... (cept flash)... maybe upgrade from your Apple IIe? :P [04:29] cataska has joined the channel [04:30] bradleymeck1: 10.6 at work crawls in benchmarks? [04:30] dshaw: What tekky said. [04:30] satori_ has joined the channel [04:30] dshaw: Plus, girl come up and talk to me about my Air. [04:30] tekky: bradleymeck1: which benchmark app? [04:30] dshaw: s/girl/girls/ [04:31] mscdex: sigh... i guess i'll have to separate my live demo [04:31] tekky: and what mac hardware? :P [04:31] bradleymeck1: dmcquay, socket.io is easier, server/client is more scalable (doubt you really need it for most things) [04:31] dmcquay: bradleymeck1 - thx [04:32] dmcquay: socket.io seems mediocre for activity/support [04:32] dmcquay: issues seem to be stagnant [04:32] dmcquay: i'm looking for the source of websocket-client/server to compare that [04:32] dmcquay: is it in github? [04:32] bradleymeck1: in house apps benchmarking, particularly usb support, intel core duo on personal, core 2 duo on build machine. [04:33] coobr has joined the channel [04:33] dshaw: socket.io seems to hit the LCD more quickly [04:33] bradleymeck1: dmcquay they are under miksago's account on github [04:34] dmcquay: bradleymeck1 thx [04:34] dshaw: I swear by miksago's node-websocket-server, but might not fill all your needs. [04:34] bradleymeck1: i just have never seen any of my own apps run faster on a mac than on anything else w/ comparable hardware, even though im mostly writing for mac [04:34] dmcquay: also thx dshaw [04:38] satori_: I wish I was better at Math. [04:38] chilts: 1 + 1 = ? [04:38] chilts: you're fine if you can answer that :) [04:38] tekky: bradleymeck1: I have seen much cheaper hardware running OSX 10.5 (prior to SL release) get very similar benchmarks to my Mac Pro (old quad core) but... thats not quite what we're discussing here :P [04:39] satori_: arithmetics is easy. math is hard [04:39] satori_: ACTION is making webgl demo's. [04:39] satori_: Matrix math is doing my head in [04:39] tekky: Matrices suck :P [04:39] dshaw: matrix math is nasty stuff [04:39] satori_: I haven't done this shit since highschool [04:40] satori_: webgl is awesome though [04:40] _announcer: Twitter: "dgram servers are super easy in node.js ... that is all." -- Edward Muller. http://twitter.com/freeformz/status/19630707011 [04:41] dshaw: I love graphics, but I hit a wall with the insane math the comes into the more complex graphics stuff. [04:41] tekky: satori_: maybe enlist a JS toolkit that does matrix for you to avoid doing the math yourself? :P [04:41] satori_: Gotta wait for the frameworks for webgl to turn up [04:41] tekky: or you are generating like... new stuff [04:41] dshaw: Processing gl [04:41] satori_: tekky: There are few around, but i want to do it myself. [04:41] satori_: well, some matrix classes anyway [04:42] satori_: I have got colormaps/specmaps and multitexturing shaders done ok, but i'm stuck on normalmaps. They don't look right. Im doing something wrong [04:43] satori_: This is kinda fun to do in javascript :P [04:43] bradleymeck1: tekky then what are we talking about? [04:44] dmcquay has joined the channel [04:45] josemoreira has joined the channel [04:48] ashleydev has joined the channel [04:48] _announcer: Twitter: "@al3x I too am skeptical about nodeJS as an app framework. But as a request dispatcher it looks pretty slick." -- Tim Bray. http://twitter.com/timbray/status/19631151045 [04:48] tekky: bradleymeck_: benchmarking apps on dissimilar OS's would be my guess since "macs run everything slower" (paraphrased) was the comment earlier :P [04:49] sh1mmer has joined the channel [04:49] tekky: my benchmark (re: Mac Pro) was identical OS (as close as OSx86 can be to OS X - on similar spec'd much cheaper hardware [04:50] _announcer: Twitter: "@ Nartzco glimpse difference really. jaxer think the focus just like the IIS webserver and / Asp.net with his script runat target. LBH nodejs low level" [id] -- Teman Macet. http://twitter.com/temanmacet/status/19631230934 [04:50] benburkert has joined the channel [04:50] sh1mmer: ahoy [04:51] _announcer: Twitter: "@ @ Temanmacet nartzco Yes. LBH Nodejs it low. Km bs make regular use nodejs tcp server." [id] -- Didiet. http://twitter.com/lynxluna/status/19631328262 [04:52] b_erb has joined the channel [04:53] cardona507 has joined the channel [04:54] bradleymeck1: i can compare the ObjC/python/qt (all done at diff stages of production to try to remedy our problem [python ironically was most speedy in our tests]) bindings for our app downloading some stuff off the web, piping it to usb and Im pretty sure i shouldnt see it take 5min on a Windows machine and 15min on mac on a non-cpu bound process [04:54] bradleymeck1: objc was compared to win32 [04:55] isaacs has joined the channel [04:55] bradleymeck1: for cpu stuff they seem comparable, but when i do things outside that im doing something wrong [04:55] bradleymeck1: or its hard to get right [04:57] satori_: I am really damn impressed with webgl. Running shaders straight out of script blocks in a HTML page is awesome. [04:57] bcurren has joined the channel [04:57] satori_: ACTION wonders what the implications for other non-graphics apps are\ [04:57] _announcer: Twitter: "Just overheard on Twitter that WebOS is getting Node.js. Don't know how far it's true, though." -- Rakesh Pai. http://twitter.com/rakesh314/status/19631663588 [04:58] satori_: Running code in a clients GPU could be seriously cool [04:58] bcurren: are there known issues with ssl in node? i've read in an article that there are known issues but they weren't listed. [04:58] tekky: bradleymeck1: hmm on file transfers I've always noticed my macs being faster to USB externals than on windows systems -- but not sure how that compares between OS's etc [04:59] bradleymeck1: i hope someone implements CUDA [04:59] bcurren: i can easily place nginx in front with ssl and proxy to node via http [04:59] satori_: bradleymeck1: Only a matter of time i think. Shader compilation is fast on both FF and Chrome [04:59] bradleymeck1: bcurren only one ive exprienced is the need to manually set the port to 443 [05:00] dshaw: night all [05:00] bradleymeck1: tekky odd [05:00] bcurren: bradleymeck1: do you happen to have to specify the ca with your cert? i have a godaddy cert that requires it [05:00] bradleymeck1: you dont have to, but you can [05:01] bradleymeck1: tekky what programming language (and/or library) are you using to push data u w/ your usb? [05:01] bcurren: i found if i don't supply the ca key to createCredentials i get a not signed by well known ca. [05:02] bcurren: i'm seeing a strange error on only my machine though. trying to determine if i hosed it somehow or if it's a known issue. sounds like it should be all good [05:02] _announcer: Twitter: "The things I'm continuing to see people make with node.js is amazing." -- Brandon Moore. http://twitter.com/keithkay/status/19631951560 [05:03] _announcer: Twitter: "Figuring out which talks to go to, "Drupal 7 and MongoDB" or "Getting Started with MongoDB and Node.js". I'm leaning to Node. #mongoseattle" -- Sean Porter. http://twitter.com/portertech/status/19631961230 [05:03] tekky: bradleymeck_: i dont typically deal with HW stuff, those examples are straight OS -> OS file copies to external devices over USB [05:03] bradleymeck1: i havent seen that one personally but i dont use a specific ca since im hosting locally [05:06] damienkatz has joined the channel [05:07] bradleymeck1: whats a good name for Collector creation OnCollect(Object,function(TheObject)) is a bit off, might just be the Capital case but even camel it seems odd [05:08] isaacs: bradleymeck1: what's Collector all about? [05:08] isaacs: oh, saw your email, nvm... [05:08] isaacs: seems like it should be some kind of event on the object, but adding that to Object.prototype seems wrong. [05:08] bradleymeck1: agreed [05:08] isaacs: like myObject.onCollect = function ... [05:09] bradleymeck1: Object.onCollect()? on the func not the proto? [05:09] isaacs: but maybe something like Object.addCollectListener(obj, fn) [05:09] bradleymeck1: i like the addListener bit, but addCollectListener seems too specific still [05:10] isaacs: yeah [05:10] isaacs: are there other events objects might "emit"? [05:10] bradleymeck1: not really [05:10] isaacs: Object.addListener(obj, "mutate", fn) [05:10] isaacs: maybe [05:10] bradleymeck1: mutate? [05:10] isaacs: it'd be pretty badass to know when a new key is being added to an object. [05:10] isaacs: like, any append/delete/etc [05:10] isaacs: any "write" to the object. [05:11] bradleymeck1: its in node-overload already w/ proxy api [05:11] isaacs: oh, ok, neato [05:11] isaacs: haven't used node-overload [05:11] bradleymeck1: its trying to get ESHarmony stuff working [05:11] isaacs: didn't you say you needed it for Witch? [05:11] isaacs: or am i thinking of some other thing? [05:12] bradleymeck1: i need proxies, ephemeron tables, and collectors for witch, otherwise i have memory leaks in order to do some of the DOM apis [05:12] creationix has joined the channel [05:12] isaacs: right, right [05:12] isaacs: i approve of your project choices :) [05:12] _announcer: Twitter: "@al3x Well, NodeJS has that evented programming model. Most interesting thing about it, actually." -- Tim Bray. http://twitter.com/timbray/status/19632500916 [05:12] bradleymeck1: trying to get those out since tmpvar said he wanted em for some stuff [05:13] bradleymeck1: i just want a replable browser, for the most part its working for me, need to fix resource resolution and ajax [05:14] bcurren: i'm curious if anyone has advice on joining multiple queries together then returning a result. i have a hacky solution right now but it seems like there would be something more elegant out there. for example, let's say i want to take query1 result set and add it to query2 result set then dived by query3 result set. each query runs asynchronously, of course. [05:14] _announcer: Twitter: "@timbray I've just been wishing for JavaScript that can do useful work. From scraping the Twitter API to managing Redis, Node.js fits." -- J Chris Anderson. http://twitter.com/jchris/status/19632604037 [05:14] isaacs: bcurren: check out Step [05:14] bradleymeck1: what kind of query? [05:15] bcurren: bradleymeck1 they are for anaytics. so we add number of people who did x and who did y divided by total number of users [05:15] isaacs: bcurren: or just use a counter that both callbacks have access to. it starts out at 2, and each decrements it, then checks for whether or not it's 0 now [05:15] bcurren: in mongo [05:16] isaacs: bradleymeck1: yeah, i want a scriptable browser, as well. [05:16] isaacs: bradleymeck1: like, a real live honest to goodness "this is a web browser" browser. [05:16] isaacs: bradleymeck1: so i can write little scripts like "open this page, click that button, enter this random data into the form, come back in an hour if any tests fail" [05:17] bcurren: isaacs: that is similar to what i have now. i guess it's not that hacky. just just like we'll need this in a ton of places. i was thinking ext had something for this [05:17] isaacs: totally [05:17] stagas: isaacs: couldn't it be done in an extension? [05:17] creationix: stagas: an extension? [05:18] stagas: yeah like an ff extension [05:18] _announcer: Twitter: "@Reustle Indeed, the node talk is the winner. Just checked out Mongoose, freaking sweet! http://is.gd/dLu8j #nodejs #mongodb #nosql" -- Sean Porter. http://twitter.com/portertech/status/19632814570 [05:18] stagas: scripting the browser I mean [05:19] jchris: bradleymeck1: is Fake.app credible as a scriptable browser? [05:19] isaacs: stagas: you can do that with that mozilla thing, what's it called? [05:19] isaacs: serenity? something? [05:19] bradleymeck1: i have no idea jchris [05:19] isaacs: selenium! [05:20] bradleymeck1: does selenium provide a tcp interface? [05:20] isaacs: bradleymeck1: see, exactly [05:20] isaacs: bradleymeck1: i want a server that can watch itself as it runs the browser test. [05:20] isaacs: bradleymeck1: like, start the server, start the browser, hit the server with the browser, watch for messups. [05:20] isaacs: all in one system. [05:21] markwubben has joined the channel [05:21] jchris: isaacs: like record replay? [05:21] bradleymeck1: ah, agreed, and i want a playground to actually implement things [05:21] isaacs: you can sort of do that with a fancy mozilla binding to php and run selenium tests with phpunit [05:21] isaacs: but it's awful [05:21] jchris: node in Chrome would be handy [05:21] bradleymeck1: jchris its not quite that simple, like in safari5 the css bug hits only on browser load [05:21] isaacs: jchris: yeah, you could do that, too [05:21] isaacs: jchris: record the *exact* sequence that led to the bug [05:22] jchris: or even just success conditions, to make sure you don't break them [05:22] jchris: so much of my stuff is client side js though [05:22] mscdex: has anyone here encountered a mysterious caching issue (on windows) where IE and Safari constantly download an older version of a webpage? [05:22] isaacs: yeah [05:22] isaacs: jchris: well, i mean, that's also a win there. [05:22] mscdex: chromium doesn't seem to be affected... [05:22] isaacs: jchris: if it's a real full browser, then you've got js execution [05:22] bradleymeck1: witch is running most simple browser js [05:22] stagas: mscdex: I've seen that on FF and had no idea why [05:23] mscdex: i noticed if i put the lan ip in, it shows up fine [05:23] foobarfighter has joined the channel [05:23] foobarfighter: mde: hola [05:23] jchris: isaacs: but to run in a trusted space and be able write my own servers inside the browser could be handy [05:23] _announcer: Twitter: "Everyone I've talked to who has at least a moderate interest in working with JavaScript *and has actually hacked with it* has loved Node.js." -- Daniel Shaw. http://twitter.com/dshaw/status/19633093031 [05:23] isaacs: jchris: that's the opposite of what i'm asking for ;) [05:24] stagas: mscdex: purging the cache didn't help, other browsers displayed the new page correctly but FF still refused to download the new one, even with shift+refresh [05:24] jchris: :) [05:24] isaacs: jchris: but then those servers could run witch! [05:24] bradleymeck1: inter-tab communication could be fun... [05:24] mscdex: stagas: yeah [05:24] jchris: localhost [05:24] bradleymeck1: anywho getting ahead of myself, fill up witch's issues so i can poke around w/ them [05:24] isaacs: bradleymeck1: another thing i want to use witch for: i want to be able to record some specific task (like, say, paying a bill or something) and then program my web browser to do it for me on a regular basis. [05:25] _announcer: Twitter: "@robconery have to say I didn't get submodules until I started using node.js and saw how it uses SM for it's includes library." -- Howard van Rooijen. http://twitter.com/HowardvRooijen/status/19633185810 [05:25] keeto has joined the channel [05:25] isaacs: which, of course, could be used for evil (creating a million yahoo accounts or something, and have it feed the captchas to a porn site to solve) [05:25] bradleymeck1: isaacs yea, the only problem i can see is i would want to confirm form submissions since html could change [05:26] bradleymeck1: isaacs that can be done already so i wouldnt worry [05:26] stagas: mscdex: never found out the cause, wasn't my computer [05:26] isaacs: bradleymeck1: yeah, so, i wouldn't just replay the http, though [05:26] _announcer: Twitter: "As far as I'm concerned, that justifies Node.js. If it turns out to be the first real silver bullet, well that's bonus." -- Daniel Shaw. http://twitter.com/dshaw/status/19633228589 [05:26] stagas: mscdex: my guess is the IP changed on the new page, and FF had cached the IP address of the old one [05:26] isaacs: bradleymeck1: but yeah, i see what you mean. you might have it click the wrong link/button or something [05:26] stagas: and the old IP page was still online [05:27] isaacs: bradleymeck1: but mostly those things don't change often [05:27] bradleymeck1: anywho i gotta sleep, work in a few hrs, isaacs post your ideas to me somehow so i can keep em in mind when im not half asleep [05:27] isaacs: hehe, have fun [05:27] bradleymeck1 has left the channel [05:27] freeformz: isaacs: pron for captchas [05:28] ironfroggy_ has joined the channel [05:28] isaacs: freeformz: oh, it's not like i made that idea up [05:28] mscdex: stagas: yeah it's weird... it's affected all browsers but chromium i think... [05:28] mscdex: ugh [05:28] isaacs: freeformz: every time you solve a capcha to prove you're over 18, or to download some pron or whatever, you just gave a haxx0r a verified yahoo account. [05:28] richcollins has joined the channel [05:29] freeformz: isaacs: I meant as a haxx0r you could motivate people with "free" pr0n by solving sets of captchas [05:29] freeformz: isaacs: for you. [05:29] isaacs: freeformz: no, i'd still charge for the porn [05:29] isaacs: :) [05:29] freeformz: isaacs: lol [05:29] creationix: isaacs: yeah some dude did a PHD on the phenomon [05:30] freeformz: creationix: which ? [05:30] SubStack: solve this differential equation: [05:30] SubStack: not only would that cut out bots, it would cut out idiots [05:30] SubStack: well, only a certain class of idiots unfortunately [05:31] mscdex: oh wait [05:31] mscdex: i think i know what it is [05:31] creationix: fearphage: the whole use real people to mass solve capchas [05:31] mscdex: duh [05:31] SubStack: capchas should involve some NP hard problem [05:32] freeformz: creationix: a PHD thesis? I think I need to just start writing PHD theses then. [05:32] siculars has joined the channel [05:32] creationix: SubStack: the problem is that it's impossible to prove that you're a human when bots farm out to real people [05:33] SubStack: just like in the matrix [05:33] creationix: no problem is easy enough for a human while being too hard for the human the bot farms out to [05:33] _announcer: Twitter: "@al3x The claim is that eventing is specially easy to reason about. nodeJS should make it possible to validate/falsify the claim." -- Tim Bray. http://twitter.com/timbray/status/19633582776 [05:33] freeformz: we're all bots in the end. [05:34] mscdex: bah, doesn't work in IE6 [05:35] mscdex: all the other browsers work though [05:35] mscdex: ACTION shakes a fist at IE [05:35] stagas: mscdex: what was it on the other ones [05:35] mscdex: stagas: i had a caching module on the site enabled that i forgot about [05:35] creationix: can't we just all boycot IE < 9 [05:36] _announcer: Twitter: "Sometimes I wonder how much of the Node.js doubt I hear is just a proxy for: "God I really don't want to program in JavaScript."" -- Daniel Shaw. http://twitter.com/dshaw/status/19633740270 [05:36] admc has joined the channel [05:37] stagas: mscdex: when all fails I just hit reset :P most problems go away, especially microsoft related [05:41] _announcer: Twitter: "Sinking feeling that we will see the TextMate/Black MacBook using hipster elitism w/ Nodejs we ALL suffered a few years ago with Rails" -- James Dumay. http://twitter.com/i386/status/19634012250 [05:42] dnolen_ has joined the channel [05:42] mscdex: has anyone here ever tried to use a flash websocket implementation inside an iframe? [05:42] satori_: nope [05:42] mscdex: because it seems to be no worky [05:42] mscdex: some permission issue [05:43] satori_: not surprising. I try not to use iframes if i can help it [05:43] khug has joined the channel [05:43] mscdex: same here, but there's no other way i can think of to accomplish this [05:43] mscdex: :/ [05:44] mscdex: trying to have this live demo embedded on my main website [05:44] mscdex: and since haproxy doesn't work, i have to use an iframe [05:44] mscdex: unless there is some other way that i'm not aware of [05:47] mscdex: hrmm [05:47] stagas: mscdex: maybe it's the policy see here http://willperone.net/Code/as3error.php [05:47] _announcer: Twitter: "[Js 人 気 情报] Node.js Experimenting with - Jeff Kreeftmeijer javascript http://bit.ly/9xkMP8 #" [de] -- jsMagazine. http://twitter.com/jsMagazine/status/19634292723 [05:47] mscdex: ah [05:47] mscdex: that is the error i'm getting heh [05:48] _announcer: Twitter: "@i386 let it not happen, nodejs is so cool :(" -- Jeremy Apthorp. http://twitter.com/nornagon/status/19634330150 [05:48] khug has joined the channel [05:49] statim1 has joined the channel [05:50] Yuffster has joined the channel [05:51] _announcer: Twitter: "@al3x I haven't got serious with nodeJS yet, but many think it's significant. Also I was impressed by http://is.gd/dLxqC" -- Tim Bray. http://twitter.com/timbray/status/19634509872 [05:54] _announcer: Twitter: "wondering if the support for #nodejs by @heroku will be back soon?" -- Denis Jacquemin. http://twitter.com/denisjacquemin/status/19634649416 [05:57] mscdex: still nothing [05:57] mscdex: methinks something changed again since that post [05:59] _announcer: Twitter: "My experiment with Node.js is more stable now http://bit.ly/cgkBze a multiple rooms chat using Socket.io" -- Olivier BONNAURE. http://twitter.com/olivierb/status/19634877057 [05:59] stagas: mscdex: :/ I think i've read some permission issues with frames and specific doctypes somewhere maybe it's that [06:00] stagas: or flash maybe caching the previous policy on that domain [06:00] _announcer: Twitter: "@lachlanhardy yeah, I am too busy doing things to sit around in an ego circle jerk. NodeJS is cool, don't get me wrong, as is Rails." -- Luke Daley. http://twitter.com/ldaley/status/19634960863 [06:01] lachlanhardy: gotta love getting an IRC notification from a Twitter reply... [06:04] jesusabdullah: What did you say? [06:06] lachlanhardy: I know him. I was just stirring him about being jealous of folks using node cause he never gets to play with anything cool [06:07] lachlanhardy: http://twitter.com/lachlanhardy/status/19634864710 [06:07] mjr_ has joined the channel [06:07] micheil has joined the channel [06:07] SubStack: hah rails [06:08] SubStack: rails was cool in 2006 maybe [06:08] sh1mmer: you guys know that paypal are running a developer conference with a prize of 150k right? [06:08] SubStack: o_O [06:09] SubStack: conferences are contests now? [06:09] lachlanhardy: yeah, but that's paypal [06:09] lachlanhardy: have you *seen* their API? [06:09] sh1mmer: we have a yahoo prize of 10k [06:09] sh1mmer: so if you do anything with yahoo apis and paypal apis you could probably bag that [06:09] mjr_: I had no idea there were so many prize-based programming things. [06:09] sh1mmer: anything good [06:09] SubStack: paypal has an api? [06:10] mjr_: sh1mmer: do you have links to either of those prize offers? [06:10] sh1mmer: sec [06:10] sh1mmer: disclaimer: I a) can't win :( b) my job is promoting this [06:12] sh1mmer: https://na5.brightidea.com/ct/s.bix?c=184D42D4-CDE7-4829-876D-83342568ACE1 [06:12] sh1mmer: ok apparently it's $50k cash first prize + $50k in free transaction fees [06:13] sh1mmer: second prize is $25k+25k [06:13] sh1mmer: I think we have a side prize for 10k [06:14] stagas: the deadline was last year [06:16] _announcer: Twitter: "Do not know @ al3x @ timbray the two of you have been brought up? nodeJS value?" [zh-CN] -- 刘江/LIU Jiang. http://twitter.com/turingbook/status/19635744036 [06:17] jansc has joined the channel [06:22] ryah: it's difficult to tell smarter people they're wrong [06:22] mjr_: sh1mmer: do you have one of those "developer advocate" jobs? [06:23] mjr_: ryah: truly smart people are glad to hear it though. [06:23] ryah: that's why we still focus so much on algebra and calculus in low-level mathematics [06:23] ryah: too hard to tell mathematicians that no one needs it [06:24] sh1mmer: mjr_: I'm an evangelist [06:24] sh1mmer: mjr_: because I believe in stuff [06:24] mjr_: ryah: Is there some specific example that's just come up? [06:24] jesusabdullah: no one needs what? [06:24] ryah: working on slides [06:24] jesusabdullah: ACTION feels dumb [06:24] ryah: going to try to make my coroutine point [06:25] _announcer: Twitter: "http://tinyurl.com/33ootfg (node.js with websockets), try this with chrome or safari, endless possibilities wi... http://plurk.com/p/6kvd7s" -- Andy Chong. http://twitter.com/andycjw/status/19636127313 [06:27] sh1mmer: mjr_: one of the nice things about being a technology evangelist instead of an advocate is I can do a talk about Node and that's work. I don't have to promote some product as long as I remember people Yahoo! employees smart people. [06:27] sh1mmer: s/remember/remind/ [06:27] _announcer: Twitter: "@timbray @al3x node.js is interesting 'cos a generation of programmers are learning the event model in js and compilation is now js-focused" -- Kevin Marks. http://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/19636250197 [06:27] sh1mmer: ACTION should drink and type [06:29] jesusabdullah: YES YOU SHOULD [06:29] _announcer: Twitter: "[DMathieu] Getting started with Node.js - http://dmathieu.com/en/development/getting-started-with-nodejs (en)" -- Damien Mathieu. http://twitter.com/dmathieu/status/19636336337 [06:29] lachlanhardy: ACTION does drink and type [06:29] lachlanhardy: but unfortunately it's too early here [06:29] jesusabdullah: I should probably go to bed [06:29] jesusabdullah: lachlanhardy: From where do you hail? [06:30] jesusabdullah: For me it's 10:30 [06:30] JimBastard has joined the channel [06:30] jesusabdullah: pm [06:30] _announcer: Twitter: "awesome websokets and #nodejs demo http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/" -- Denis Jacquemin. http://twitter.com/denisjacquemin/status/19636380086 [06:30] tekky: stagas: I believe he meant this one, http://venturebeat.com/2010/06/17/paypal-x-developer-challenge/ (as announced on www.x.com) [06:30] lachlanhardy: I'm in Sydney, Australia. 4.30pm. In a cubicle farm. [06:30] jesusabdullah: lachlanhardy: Hah! I KNEW it >:o [06:30] jesusabdullah: Well, Australia anyway [06:31] JimBastard: okay, method man, opp, and choice is yours are all done. just gotta do im on a boat now [06:31] jesusabdullah: I internet-met a dude from Perth once, so that's my first thought when I try to think 'city in Australia' now [06:31] _announcer: Twitter: "Virtual Panel: The Node.js Ecosystem - Frameworks, Libraries and Best Practices http://ow.ly/18j4Cl" -- Javascript News. http://twitter.com/del_javascript/status/19636439162 [06:32] JimBastard: i just gotta figure out how to sing like t pain [06:33] jesusabdullah: Have you heard the Urban Assault Vehicle remix of "Rollin'?" [06:33] jesusabdullah: seriously, so bad it's good again [06:41] pdelgallego has joined the channel [06:56] _announcer: Twitter: "(tg) Experimenting with Node.js – Web socket server http://goo.gl/fb/DlMfI" -- taggle.org. http://twitter.com/TaggleOrg/status/19637562462 [06:58] virtuo has joined the channel [07:01] _announcer: Twitter: "Cool experiment with Node.js http://bit.ly/9PWvZY # # websocket nodejs" [es] -- David Anguita. http://twitter.com/danguita/status/19637802502 [07:03] _announcer: Twitter: "It's like flies all over the page! http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/" -- Lachlan Hardy. http://twitter.com/lachlanhardy/status/19637877749 [07:03] lachlanhardy: oh great, now I'm alerting myself. [07:06] _announcer: Twitter: "http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/ WebSockets rocks! # Js" [de] -- Macdaddy Pty Ltd. http://twitter.com/macdaddyweb/status/19637999293 [07:08] bpot has joined the channel [07:13] TomY_ has joined the channel [07:14] ewdafa has joined the channel [07:15] sintaxi_ has left the channel [07:16] beanie___ has joined the channel [07:17] _announcer: Twitter: "Roughly 8 years ago I did the same but then with Flash. It was a *major* headache, thisis awesome! http://bit.ly/9890rW Nodejs + websockets" -- Simon de Haan. http://twitter.com/smn/status/19638504488 [07:18] muhqu has joined the channel [07:22] hassox has joined the channel [07:29] shockie has joined the channel [07:29] _announcer: Twitter: "Rather liking the look of nDistro for distributing #nodejs environments by @tjholowaychuk. http://bit.ly/d6smjT" -- Phil Hawksworth. http://twitter.com/philhawksworth/status/19638988544 [07:31] femto has joined the channel [07:32] tpryme has joined the channel [07:32] sh1mmer has joined the channel [07:37] _announcer: Twitter: "jquery called node.js heard the name I thought I was like client-side library, it was JavaScript execution environment for the server. YDN video is so useful." [ja] -- 平松 祥史. http://twitter.com/jgoamakf/status/19639352329 [07:41] _announcer: Twitter: "How good @ aNieto2k, every day more amazed with your tweets. # # Websocket nodejs" [es] -- miniestudi. http://twitter.com/miniestudi/status/19639490485 [07:47] felixge has joined the channel [07:47] felixge has joined the channel [07:47] Gruni has joined the channel [07:48] _announcer: Twitter: "Node.js is tonight's new shiny. I hadn't considered writing server side software in JavaScript before." -- Robert Cottrell. http://twitter.com/rgcottrell/status/19639799932 [07:48] teemow has joined the channel [07:50] beawesomeinstead has joined the channel [07:56] mscdex: funky times with flash websockets :S [07:57] BryanWB has joined the channel [07:58] _announcer: Twitter: "Experimenting with Node.js - http://bit.ly/9890rW #nodejs #jQuery" -- Maxim Bénadon. http://twitter.com/shakamax/status/19640186702 [08:02] _announcer: Twitter: "node.js experimentation, very impressive http://is.gd/dLK2A" -- marc_hugon. http://twitter.com/marc_hugon/status/19640370318 [08:05] ctp has joined the channel [08:08] _announcer: Twitter: "shares http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/ (Experimenting with node.js) http://plurk.com/p/6kx9ep" -- Zak Elep. http://twitter.com/zakame/status/19640609722 [08:12] hellp has joined the channel [08:14] _announcer: Twitter: "@mtaulty nice - just what I was looking for as I'm looking at getting Silverlight working with Node.js today..." -- Howard van Rooijen. http://twitter.com/HowardvRooijen/status/19640861198 [08:14] _announcer: Twitter: "node.js actually runs fine on cygwin. I have the proof." -- James Dennes. http://twitter.com/jdennes/status/19640879646 [08:15] N` has joined the channel [08:16] MrTopf has joined the channel [08:16] Dmitry has joined the channel [08:23] felixge has joined the channel [08:23] felixge has joined the channel [08:24] bpot has joined the channel [08:31] _announcer: Twitter: "@ Chris_Ys node.js more relevant items to the ..." [zh-CN] -- aki. http://twitter.com/aki_xavier/status/19641557175 [08:34] jonathantaylor has joined the channel [08:35] AAA_awright has joined the channel [08:37] necrodearia has joined the channel [08:38] _announcer: Twitter: "This makes me feel #JavaScript is a good choice for server side web dev in the near future http://bit.ly/aSM0UO (PDF pres by @ryah) #nodejs" -- Stephane Roucheray. http://twitter.com/sroucheray/status/19641834912 [08:38] hij1nx has joined the channel [08:39] _announcer: Twitter: "node.js websocket and I made. And try to translate later http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/" [ja] -- Toshihiro Shimizu. http://twitter.com/meso/status/19641891061 [08:42] AAA_awright: Is there a way to get fs.stat().mtime to give a Date object or something similar, that's not a string? [08:42] mscdex: AAA_awright: why not pass it into new Date() ? [08:43] AAA_awright: I've had to do that before but that seems backwards, I should be calling Date for a string not the other way around [08:43] mscdex: huh? [08:43] AAA_awright: (not in Node.js but other places) [08:43] _announcer: Twitter: "♺ @dalmaer: Start your cursors! Fun with node and websockets. http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/" -- Patrick Fraley. http://twitter.com/patrick_fraley/status/19642057474 [08:43] mscdex: new Date(fs.stat().mtime) [08:44] _announcer: Twitter: "Experimenting with Node.js http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/" -- Niyaz PK. http://twitter.com/diovo/status/19642088669 [08:44] xla has joined the channel [08:44] AAA_awright: Right, but there isn't any way to get a native Date, and format that to a string if you need a string? I'm guessing no [08:44] zomgbie has joined the channel [08:44] mscdex: that is a native javascript date.... [08:45] hij1nx has joined the channel [08:45] mscdex: new Date() works just like in the browser [08:46] mscdex: there is no built-in printf or anything [08:46] mscdex: you have to write your own [08:46] mertimor has joined the channel [08:46] mscdex: or pull out the parts you want using getHours, getMinutes, etc and format how you want [08:47] AAA_awright: Oh, really, my fault then, that isn't made clear [08:47] liesen has joined the channel [08:48] mscdex: the Date object is the same as the one available in the browser, so anything here is usable: http://www.w3schools.com/jsref/jsref_obj_date.asp [08:48] AAA_awright: Yeah I figured that out now, thanks [08:48] crohr has joined the channel [08:48] AAA_awright: Is there a way to submit a documentation patch or something? It doesn't mention using Date anywhere [08:49] mscdex: Date is not specific to node [08:49] mscdex: so there is no need to document it? [08:49] AAA_awright: To show that's what is being returned [08:50] mscdex: mtime() doesn't return a Date, it returns a string [08:51] AAA_awright: At the very least, typeof statSync().mtime == object, and I can use Date functions on it [08:51] mscdex: hmm [08:53] MrTopf1 has joined the channel [08:54] lenary has joined the channel [08:55] mAritz has joined the channel [08:55] lenary: morning/evening fellows [08:55] lenary: which of kiwi or npm is more stable? [08:56] stride: hey, npm, kiwi is discontinued if I remember correctly [08:56] lenary: thanks! [08:56] hij1nx_ has joined the channel [08:57] mscdex: AAA_awright: you're right, it does convert it to date. the reason it is shown as a string is because the object literal is most likely output from sys.inspect(), which calls toString() what displaying an object [08:57] mscdex: AAA_awright: feel free to submit a doc patch with a note in there about that [08:58] AAA_awright: Looks like that's the node_doc repo [08:58] mscdex: s/what/when [08:58] hassox has joined the channel [08:58] lenary has left the channel [08:58] mscdex: AAA_awright: afaik ryah likes patches submitted via email or posted to the mailing list [08:59] AAA_awright: kk [08:59] caolanm has joined the channel [09:00] lenary has joined the channel [09:01] _announcer: Twitter: "@ Chris_Ys There are also written with node.js + canvas Remote Desktop, this amazing" [zh-CN] -- aki. http://twitter.com/aki_xavier/status/19642806909 [09:05] rsms has joined the channel [09:06] rsms: Which of the two async MySQL modules would you recommend — sidorares/nodejs-mysql-native or masuidrive/node-mysql? [09:07] shreekavi has joined the channel [09:07] skampler has joined the channel [09:08] _announcer: Twitter: "Rails or Django or unpleasant future Scala / Lift it, You do not Node.js No, what I like about you ... → Usage of Server-side Programming Languages for Websites http://bit.ly/dqtlbs" [ja] -- Ken Nishimura. http://twitter.com/knsmr/status/19643117685 [09:09] aliem has joined the channel [09:09] mscdex: rsms: i've used nodejs-mysql-native and it worked pretty well when i last tried it [09:09] rsms: mscdex: thanks. looks most up to date, too. [09:10] shreekavi has left the channel [09:10] bvleur has joined the channel [09:11] shreekavi has joined the channel [09:12] micheil: howdy' rsms [09:12] micheil: and mscdex [09:14] mape: Hey rsms, good to see another swede in here [09:14] mscdex: hola [09:15] mscdex: micheil: have you ever had any trouble using gimite's flash websocket implementation? [09:15] micheil: I haven't used it [09:15] mscdex: ah [09:15] mscdex: ok [09:15] micheil: I looked at the source code and though: no, I'm not even going to bother trying to make that -76 compatible [09:15] mscdex: it is 76 compatible [09:16] micheil: but you do need to serve the cross-domain file [09:16] micheil: since when [09:16] micheil: ?\ [09:16] mscdex: since a long while ago? i dunno [09:16] micheil: news to me. [09:16] mscdex: heh [09:16] omarkj has joined the channel [09:17] mscdex: i have it working just fine on one project, but then i use it in another and it disconnects not long after what appears to be a successful handshake [09:17] micheil: I still find it amusing that on NWS, the most commits are at like, 1-6am on a sunday morning [09:17] micheil: hmm.. odd [09:17] mscdex: and i'm unable to narrow it down [09:17] mscdex: very aggravating [09:17] micheil: very [09:18] micheil: is this with grappler or? [09:18] javajunky has joined the channel [09:18] mscdex: what's also odd is that i'm able to continuously send out data right after the client connects, but then the connection drops shortly after the last write is done [09:18] mscdex: it is with grappler, both projects use it [09:18] _announcer: Twitter: "shares http://tinyurl.com/22ntghp (node.js frameworks) http://plurk.com/p/6kyp9n" -- Zak Elep. http://twitter.com/zakame/status/19643528077 [09:18] micheil: mscdex: sounds like a timeout issue [09:18] mscdex: the native websocket browsers work fine though [09:18] wao: well, have nodejs some framework already? [09:19] mscdex: firefox 4, chrome 6, and safari 5 all have no issues [09:19] mscdex: it's the browsers that use the flash plugin [09:19] mscdex: like firefox 3.x and opera [09:19] teemow has left the channel [09:20] mscdex: i don't have a flash dev environment, so i shot him a message asking for more debug output :> [09:20] javajunky: wao: what do you mean ? [09:21] wao: something like expressjs [09:21] wao: something like django for python :) [09:22] javajunky: wao: yes, there are several web frameworks available, express, geddy + fab are perhaps the 3 best known [09:23] BryanWB: when does ncb000gt usually come online? [09:23] wao: javajunky: yay, thanks:) [09:24] micheil: mscdex: there was a way to get debug output, there's also a firefox extension to log it. [09:24] beanie___: can someone help me with the following exception: Invalid cross-device link [09:24] beanie___: i want to rename a file [09:25] micheil: beanie___: I'd guess the file is actually a link between two volumes, so it's throwing that error [09:25] beanie___: micheil: no i want to rename a file on /tmp to a file on a nfs? [09:25] javajunky: wao: express is sinatra like, geddy rails like, and fab, well fab is very node like [09:25] beanie___: i have to copy? [09:25] micheil: beanie___: probably move or copy first, then rename [09:26] beanie___: rename again? [09:26] micheil: javajunky: no, I'd say fab is more so lua like [09:26] beanie___: copy and unlink should work [09:27] lenary has joined the channel [09:28] javajunky: micheil: well I guess choose any recursive language ;) prolog like [09:28] micheil: :D [09:28] shimondoodkin: path /tmp in several linuxes is memory disk [09:29] jetienne has joined the channel [09:29] teemow has joined the channel [09:31] blaze-x has joined the channel [09:31] mde: wao: I'm really interested in getting feedback on Geddy. Give it a try, lemme know what you think. [09:32] mde: wao: The web site is http://geddyjs.org/ [09:32] wao: mde: you are the one of the author? [09:32] mde: wao: Yes, there are a couple of us working on it. [09:32] mde: It's still very new, but things are falling into place. [09:33] mde: Very interested in feedback from the community on how to improve it. [09:33] wao: oh,fine :) [09:33] rsms: micheil: hey! [09:34] rsms: mape: :) [09:34] rsms: mscdex: spot the mistake: http://hunch.se/s/d5/oeyy8c9rwcs4k.png [09:34] foobarfighter: we use geddy at yammer [09:35] foobarfighter: in production [09:35] foobarfighter: it works pretty well [09:35] jetienne: rsms: nice :) [09:35] micheil: rsms: what's the mistake? [09:35] _announcer: Twitter: "really cool node.js + websockets demo: http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/" -- David Kjelkerud. http://twitter.com/davidkjelkerud/status/19644243713 [09:35] micheil: the export name? [09:35] _announcer: Twitter: "Liking node-formidable for getting at POST/file data in node.js." -- Rene Dudfield. http://twitter.com/renedudfield/status/19644256874 [09:36] shimondoodkin: you dont use host name [09:36] micheil: gee. NWS is getting some awesome media coverage off that demo. [09:36] micheil: bbl. [09:36] jetienne: mde: my feedback would be "hang more around here, talk more about your stuff" [09:36] micheil: good point, host and port numbers are forced [09:36] micheil: not used [09:37] cataska has joined the channel [09:37] mde: jetienne: That's actually good feedback. Stupid day job gets in the way, but I'll definitely try to make more of an effort. [09:37] mape: Anyone here worked with express and figured out how to use the layout.(ejs|jade) to work with the file being rendered? [09:37] shimondoodkin: mscdex: oops i bet it was for you [09:37] jetienne: mde: cant you just open a irc client in the background ? [09:37] rsms: micheil: read through the auth function ;) [09:38] rsms: spent a good 15 minutes scratching my own code until I looked under the hood. [09:38] foobarfighter: mde: you mean you dont get paid for open source work? thats a shocker [09:38] mde: jetienne: I do that. I'm pretty much in here all the time. But it can also get distracting when you have production bugs to fix. [09:38] mde: Hehe [09:38] jetienne: mde: :) [09:38] sveisvei: mape: Yeah, when I tried head, I had to name it layout.jade|ejs... [09:39] mape: sveisvei: Yeah it works and all, but don't really know how to get the file I'm rendering to be displayed into the layout [09:39] sveisvei: using jade? [09:40] shockie: use body variable [09:40] sveisvei: put != body [09:40] sveisvei: !=body [09:40] mape: sveisvei: ejs, but I guess that means its put in the locals? [09:40] sveisvei: mape: yeah [09:40] tmedema has joined the channel [09:41] mape: Ah yeah that works, seems that isn't in the docs [09:41] MattJ has joined the channel [09:41] mape: The whole reloading the entire sever to see html changes is kinda offputting [09:42] sveisvei: no, you dont have to if you turn of cache [09:42] sveisvei: at least on my setup [09:42] d0k has joined the channel [09:42] mape: cache: false in the options of the render? [09:43] _announcer: Twitter: "OH: BBC Node.js prototype: Wimbledon scores appearing on the web before they appear on the telly. #webwin" -- Simon Cross. http://twitter.com/sicross/status/19644562256 [09:44] maushu has joined the channel [09:44] sveisvei: ACTION checking [09:45] mape: Has tons of stuff in the docs about development mode but nothing about how to actually enable it [09:46] mape: perhaps ejs doesn't support that? [09:47] maushu: JimBastard: "Hey, I was wondering if you could provide any links of any large Open-Source projects which were created by / currently being maintained by a woman/women? Any information would be appreciated, thanks." [09:47] maushu: pow. [09:48] mape: sveisvei: seems you can use spark and set -E as a flag, still caches though [09:49] lenary: how do i use rpm? i feel really stupid [09:49] blaze-x has joined the channel [09:49] lenary: but then again, the docs weren't helpful [09:50] sveisvei: mape: doh, I dont remember... ill poke around my src [09:52] puppetdragon has joined the channel [09:52] mape: sveisvei: Would be greatly appriciated [09:53] sveisvei: mape: If i remember correctly it has a watch/reloadig feature [09:53] puppetdragon: any means node installation in windows [09:53] mape: # reload views Reloads altered views, by default watches for mtime changes with with a 5 minute interval. Example: app.set('reload views', 60000); [09:53] sveisvei: mape: yes :) [09:54] mape: sveisvei: Hehe seems to do something at least, but returns empty instead of the new content [09:54] _announcer: Twitter: "Clash of the mouse pointers http://bit.ly/9890rW #nodejs #websocket #demo" -- Thomas Smets. http://twitter.com/ThSmets/status/19645033335 [09:54] mape: Works fine on server startup though [09:54] hij1nx has joined the channel [09:54] puppetdragon: is cygwin supported [09:55] sveisvei: mape: works here [09:55] mape: Guess I'll poke tj later [09:55] sveisvei: mape: tested in my app [09:55] mape: Using ejs? [09:56] sveisvei: mape: nej :/ ill test though [09:56] mape: <3 [09:58] philotic has joined the channel [09:58] _announcer: Twitter: "21 Tweets | Experimenting with Node.js - Jeff Kreeftmeijer: Using Node.js and a bit of jQuery to annoy you. http://bit.ly/9VkJeD" -- marcelobernard. http://twitter.com/marcelobernard/status/19645208512 [10:00] sveisvei: mape: works here [10:00] sveisvei: mape: where do you set the app.set = [10:00] sveisvei: = = ? [10:01] maushu: I just noticed I'm entering the "Inner emptiness" phase of a burn-out. [10:01] _announcer: Twitter: "Now we're talking ~ Web Sockets with #nodejs: http://bit.ly/9890rW" -- Paul Truong. http://twitter.com/monocubed/status/19645355997 [10:02] mape: sveisvei: http://gist.github.com/492000 [10:02] omarkj: I am wondering if you guys know of any good way of using inheritance in JavaScript..? That is, what's your 'preferred way'? [10:02] hellp has joined the channel [10:02] sveisvei: mape: yeah, move it out ofconfigure... I actually think app.configure doesnt work right atm [10:02] sveisvei: just move it global [10:02] mape: oh [10:02] maushu: omarkj: Inheritance? In my javascript?! [10:03] omarkj: maushu: Haha, no no, not yours! [10:03] omarkj: I make my own special blend of shitty JavaScript. [10:04] mape: sveisvei: runs other stuff I put there but I'll try it, thanks [10:04] maushu: omarkj: Wait a second, I have a project here that has that. (For work, obviously. x3) [10:04] aliem has joined the channel [10:05] mape: sveisvei: nope, same issue, just turns up empty [10:05] omarkj: Tim Caswell had an article about it I remember. [10:05] lenary has left the channel [10:05] maushu: omarkj: http://pastie.org/private/an6c0gno4jglwzcbcwcsw [10:06] maushu: Don't use the property on node.js, use the native getters and setters. [10:07] omarkj: Yeah, I'll do that. Thanks alot. [10:07] omarkj: Looks like a good way of achieving this. [10:07] maushu: Hmm, let me show a example of usage. [10:10] maushu: http://pastie.org/private/j7lf1jyychypubyhsxka [10:10] maushu: Something like that. [10:11] maushu: This is code-from-work, any explosions/gore/mass destruction/rabid rabbits/etc might happen and it's not my fault. [10:12] omarkj: Haha, ok, no problem, I'll take the blame for that. Thanks. [10:13] omarkj: That's an elegant way of doing it still. [10:14] sveisvei: mape: I tested with latest and with you code, but without assets and staticpr [10:14] sveisvei: and works [10:14] mape: Wonky [10:14] sveisvei: funtimes [10:15] sveisvei: :P [10:15] sveisvei: fresh install of express/connect might help maybe=? [10:16] mape: tried it, uninstalled on npm and installed again, same issue [10:16] mape: guess I'll just have to refresh [10:23] javajunky: mape: wassup ? [10:23] mape: javajunky: Nothing much, poking at express [10:24] maushu: omarkj: I could change the property util to use native getters setters... hmmm... damn you, now I want to code this. [10:25] javajunky: I think the npm packages currently work, although there were problems with different route handlers and the bodydecoder not that long ago (I'm still running local Git HEADs to avoid the connect in npm atm ) [10:25] _announcer: Twitter: "Experimenting with Node.js http://j.mp/cxoLVM /by @jkreeftmeijer" -- Daniel Kurdoghlian. http://twitter.com/derblub/status/19646391662 [10:25] mape: Hmm k [10:27] javajunky: having said that I ported all my stuff over ok [10:28] maushu: omarkj: Here is the version with proper getters/setters: http://pastie.org/1061896 [10:31] _announcer: Twitter: "http://bit.ly/aVZOpY http://bit.ly/dCuFtA Experimenting with Node.js - Jeff Kreeftmeijer" -- Violet. http://twitter.com/ygvioletl4j82/status/19646625878 [10:31] mape: sveisvei: When doing partials, how to you get not escaped? seems this.partial only takes files? [10:32] omarkj: Sorry about screwing up your day maushu. Like the native implementation. I guess I'll have to find an excuse to refactor some of my code. [10:33] javajunky: mape: which template engine [10:33] mape: javajunky: ejs [10:33] maushu: "Why is it that within ten seconds, I felt compelled to "hump" other arrows with my own?" [10:33] javajunky: maushu: I *totally* did that too [10:33] _announcer: Twitter: "Catch the mouse! http://is.gd/dLWNZ Awesome illustration of the power of #node-js" -- Shrikant Sharat. http://twitter.com/sharat87/status/19646747158 [10:34] maushu: ^-Took me 2 seconds to start humping arrows. [10:34] maushu: What can I say, I'm very lovable. [10:34] javajunky: mape: depends what you'rd doing but <%- partial('partial') %> doesn't work ? [10:35] micheil: rsms: auth function? [10:36] mape: javajunky: Isn't that for files? I'm trying to serve index.ejs, but since it fetches layout.ejs I want to add index.ejs to that, but if I do <%= body %> it gets escaped [10:36] javajunky: <%- won't. [10:36] mape: javajunky: Oh, ah, thanks :) [10:36] javajunky: np. [10:37] mape: Now I just have to fix the refresh deal and I'm ready to go [10:37] javajunky: refresh deal ? [10:37] javajunky: mape: don't suppose you fancy road-testing some of my auth code with that ? [10:37] _announcer: Twitter: "the multiple cursors are kinda creepy, but nice write-up of a Node.js example: http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/" -- Frances. http://twitter.com/phae/status/19646922329 [10:38] mape: javajunky: If I start the server it shows everything like it should, app.set('reload views', 1000); after I change a file and they get reloaded they are just blank. [10:38] mape: javajunky: Hmm not sure if I can fit it in, but I'll try to find an angle [10:38] _announcer: Twitter: "@chrisloftus not really, apart from Howtonode.org and just the documentation - just try to start building something, go into #node.js on irc" -- Micheil Smith. http://twitter.com/miksago/status/19646946791 [10:39] javajunky: mape: hmm weird, not experienced that blanknes. [10:39] mape: And it is just the one refreshed, so layout.ejs stays fine if I change index.ejs, but yeah. [10:40] javajunky: hmm, does anything come down the wire at all ? [10:40] mape: Yeah, so if I change index.ejs layout.ejs stays fine, untill I edit that one as well and everything is blank [10:40] maushu: mape: Did you ever change the port? [10:41] mape: javajunky: but I get a working http req with 200 [10:41] javajunky: mape: mmm, but is there any content coming down ? [10:41] mape: maushu: Hmm no, still have things running on 80 that can't be moved easily [10:41] mape: javajunky: not when both are changed, when the inner one is changed the outer one comes through [10:42] mape: So seems it just pushes an empty string to cache or something and serves that [10:42] mape: But the first generation works fine, just the subsequent ones that fail [10:42] zomgbie has joined the channel [10:42] maushu: mape: Port 8080! Port 8080! [10:43] _announcer: Twitter: "What do you think, reverse engineer the Rubygem for http://subsify.com/ and create a node.js module? (Just for fun, y'know.)" -- Micheil Smith. http://twitter.com/miksago/status/19647153209 [10:43] mape: maushu: oh.. [10:43] maushu: ACTION facepalms. [10:43] mscdex: ACTION palmfaces [10:43] maushu: That palm tree never hurt anybody! [10:44] fermion has joined the channel [10:44] mscdex: Introducing the Palm Face [10:44] jetienne: it is time [10:44] micheil: palm oil? [10:44] mscdex: actually it would be HP now i guess [10:45] _announcer: Twitter: "http://tinyurl.com/33ootfg Experimenting with Node.js - Jeff Kreeftmeijer" -- onion_soup. http://twitter.com/onion_soup/status/19647247739 [10:45] javajunky: mape: I suggest trying express HEAD, I think that works better than what was in npm (last time I checked) [10:45] mscdex: it's daylight again outside, that must mean it's time for coffee [10:45] maushu: COFFEE! [10:46] WarBot has joined the channel [10:46] jashkenas has joined the channel [10:46] mape: maushu: try now [10:46] mape: there [10:46] maushu: Yup! It works! xD [10:46] maushu: Thanks! [10:46] mape: maushu: pew [10:46] micheil: maushu: good call, Coffee it is. [10:47] maushu: Ahh! I'm being nuked! FIRE ALL MISSILES! [10:47] mscdex: and now to continue debugging this flash websocket crap [10:47] maushu: ACTION fires at mscdex. [10:47] mscdex: ;( [10:47] maushu: ...actions don't work anyway. [10:47] mscdex: lucky [10:47] mape: ACTION! [10:47] maushu: mscdex: Not so much. [10:47] mscdex: maushu: PEW PEW PEW PEW [10:48] maushu: This means war! [10:48] mscdex: this means local context [10:48] mscdex: :p [10:49] _announcer: Twitter: "Implemented first #websocket app. Redirect unsupported browsers to ajax version or warn to use chrome? #nodejs #mongodb #expressjs" -- Erdem Gezer. http://twitter.com/erdemgezer/status/19647428605 [10:49] hij1nx has joined the channel [10:49] geojeff has joined the channel [10:50] maushu: Anyways. [10:50] maushu: Still checking v8 debugging docs. [10:50] mscdex: yeah, anyways [10:50] _announcer: Twitter: "yay! deployed my first node.js app! :)" -- ben. http://twitter.com/beanieboi/status/19647474631 [10:50] jashkenas has left the channel [10:51] maushu: !tweet beanieboi What? No link? [10:51] maushu: Hmm. [10:51] mscdex: you forgot the @ [10:51] maushu: Forgot the @ oh well. [10:51] mscdex: lol [10:51] beanie___: maushu: its not visible :) [10:51] mscdex: omghax [10:51] maushu: HAX! [10:51] mscdex: he's in the channel! [10:52] maushu: Holy shi-! [10:52] maushu: Scary! [10:52] zomgbie has joined the channel [10:52] beanie___: i work for lomography.com and we resize our photos on demand if the size is not available yet :) [10:52] beanie___: :)))) [10:52] beanie___: resizing is done via node because there is a shitload of IO :) [10:53] maushu: beanie___: What do you use for resizing? [10:53] beanie___: imagemagick [10:53] jdennes has joined the channel [10:53] mscdex: are you using the imagemagick bindings? [10:53] beanie___: its mostly a wrapper [10:53] beanie___: mscdex: yes [10:53] mscdex: cool [10:54] aheckmann has joined the channel [10:54] mape: Tim_Smart: Around? [10:54] beanie___: our images are stored on S3, so there is a lot of I/O [10:54] maushu: beanie___: Command line bindings or proper bindings? [10:54] Tim_Smart: mape: Yeah [10:54] beanie___: maushu: cli :) [10:55] mape: Tim_Smart: Was wondering about twitter-node, does it tell you if the user/pass is incorrect? And will that work when they switch it to oauth? [10:55] maushu: Thought so, I was looking for a graphics library and that seems to be the only stable way. [10:55] beanie___: i had only 3 days for the rewrite [10:55] jetienne: beanie___: have you benched the overhead of a wrapper vs a lib binding ? [10:55] Tim_Smart: mape: Erm not sure. [10:55] jdennes: anyone have experience troubleshooting build problem on os x 10.6.2 related to "../deps/c-ares/ares_rules.h:101: error: size of array ‘__cares_rule_01__’ is negative"? [10:56] beanie___: jetienne: the wrapper was fast enough for use [10:56] Tim_Smart: I have always used a single set of credentials with it [10:56] beanie___: *us [10:56] jetienne: beanie___: ok [10:56] maushu: jetienne: If it's not realtime the cli should be enough. [10:56] mape: Tim_Smart: yeah, I entered an account and tracked apple added a listener and it doesn't output anything, so not sure where it is broken [10:56] beanie___: its realtime :) [10:57] maushu: By realtime I mean on a server request... aren't you using it in the background? [10:57] jetienne: maushu: beanie___: i hope he does :) [10:57] beanie___: maushu: yes, if the requested image is not available we create it on demand [10:57] loftus has joined the channel [10:58] AAA_awright has left the channel [10:58] _announcer: Twitter: "InfoQ and the Express lead to their authors carried Socket.IO node.js Virtual Discussion on (?) Interesting. / InfoQ: Virtual Panel: The Node.js Ecosystem - Fra ... http://htn.to/3n7i9z" [ja] -- Takuto Wada. http://twitter.com/t_wada/status/19647850314 [10:58] MrTopf has joined the channel [10:58] jetienne: i may need something similar soon, this is why i wondered about the wrapper strategy. it surely have advantages: less dependancy on the binding, no license stuff, easier to debug. the disavantages may be: cpu usage [10:59] maushu: I had an idea ages ago similar to yourworldoftext but with images. I was thinking of using flash and php (this was ages ago, remember?). Now I'm thinking of using node.js and html5. [10:59] beanie___: jetienne: well at the moment we can resizie upto 5 photos per second which is (at the moment) enough [11:00] beanie___: and its only done once per size and per image. [11:00] beanie___: we store every resized image [11:00] jetienne: beanie___: then you did the good choise :) im not critisizing just trying to understand what lead to the decision [11:01] beanie___: and we can scale horizontally :) just fire up another node instance at a different server [11:02] jetienne: an additionnal issue with binding is that it increase the amount of native code in node runtime [11:02] beanie___: and i have to care less about memory leaks and stuff, if the cli is finished, the child is destroyed :) [11:02] jetienne: aka the amount of code which can cause crash. i suffered from it with ruby. aka ruby interpreter crashing on regular basis [11:02] beanie___: jetienne: same here :) [11:03] beanie___: its 200 SLOC (with amazon s3 downloader and some image checkings) [11:05] _announcer: Twitter: "Node.JS imperceptibly modified version because he was in the process. v0.1.102" [ja] -- KOBA789(こば). http://twitter.com/KOBA789/status/19648217212 [11:09] robinduckett has joined the channel [11:09] robinduckett: man that cursors on screen thing is fun [11:11] MrTopf1 has joined the channel [11:15] MrTopf has joined the channel [11:16] _announcer: Twitter: "Hey, checkout my #nodejs theme for twitter profile http://twitter.com/kadirpekel :)" -- Kadir Pekel. http://twitter.com/kadirpekel/status/19648709150 [11:17] MrTopf1 has joined the channel [11:19] _announcer: Twitter: "Node.JS radio today talking about is so close" [ja] -- KOBA789(こば). http://twitter.com/KOBA789/status/19648885547 [11:20] MrTopf has joined the channel [11:20] _announcer: Twitter: "Writing a finger server in node.js. Next up: gopher server. #oldskool" -- Lindsay Evans. http://twitter.com/lindsayevans/status/19648902689 [11:23] _announcer: Twitter: "Web site that shows visitors the cursors online http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/" [cs] -- Jaromír Kavan. http://twitter.com/ToshTak/status/19649068629 [11:24] MrTopf1 has joined the channel [11:29] mAritz: man... those japanese tweets are a brainfuck. sometimes i get what they try to say, but sometimes i'm completely partying the translation. :/ [11:30] bridge has joined the channel [11:31] _announcer: Twitter: "Anyway, Node.JS at least, another 30 to talk about TV [http://j.mp/bnEYvs] # kobaradio" [ja] -- KOBA789(こば). http://twitter.com/KOBA789/status/19649463399 [11:31] mscdex: so yeah, i finally figured out what i was doing wrong with the flash websocket stuff... haha [11:32] mscdex: late night error to say the least ;-) [11:32] pkrumins: tjgillies: it takes a buffer because binary strings are something weird. so i forced to take a buffer that isn't weird. [11:32] tjgillies: pkrumins, gotcha [11:35] bridge: I'm trying to use express, but don't really get how to use the view rendering. When I do res.render('test.ejs'); it will try to render layout.ejs. How do you use them together? [11:35] _announcer: Twitter: "Awesome example of node.js and Web Sockets. http://bit.ly/bbaAIN" -- Yassir Yahya. http://twitter.com/yassiryahya/status/19649674085 [11:36] maushu: mscdex: Just showing wargamez to a friend. [11:36] mscdex: maushu: PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW! [11:37] mscdex: >:-D [11:37] maushu: Meanie. [11:38] shockie: bridge: layout.ejs is your base template [11:38] shockie: you need it before it can render [11:39] bridge: ok and how do I define where to render the test.ejs (in the layout.ejs)? [11:39] shockie: everything you render by res.render() will go into the local variable body [11:39] shockie: variable called 'body' [11:40] bridge: so I should do a <%= body %> in layout.ejs? [11:42] _announcer: Twitter: "Seriously, if NodeJS/Ruby fibers seem neat to you, head over to http://bit.ly/dCqcnQ to get your mind blown." -- Sheila . http://twitter.com/sheila_willis86/status/19650033018 [11:44] shockie: yep [11:45] mscdex: woot! [11:45] bridge: ok thanks [11:45] mscdex: it's alliiiiiivee :-D [11:46] mscdex: i gots me a live grappler server demo [11:46] micheil: cool [11:47] micheil: I've just kept http://brandedcode.com:8080 running (not with god or anything monitoring it though) [11:47] mscdex: it's a live update of the status of nodebuilder [11:48] mscdex: it's at the top of http://mscdex.net [11:48] mscdex: :-D [11:48] _announcer: Twitter: "RT (via. @krmdrms) node.js fun with web sockets http://bit.ly/agehTJ" -- Michael McMillan. http://twitter.com/michaelmcmillan/status/19650356134 [11:49] mscdex: you can watch it fetch, build, and package now [11:49] mscdex: :-D [11:50] micheil: I wish people would longurl that article's url. [11:50] micheil: I keep clicking to an article I've already read twice [11:51] stagas has joined the channel [11:51] mscdex: i wonder if i should link to the package directory [11:52] mscdex: hrm [11:52] hellp has joined the channel [11:55] crohr has joined the channel [11:56] freshtonic has joined the channel [11:56] _mythz has joined the channel [11:56] mscdex: there we go [11:58] stagas: an easy sync template module? [11:59] _announcer: Twitter: "I start soon. Node.JS going to talk about today [http://j.mp/bnEYvs] # kobaradio" [ja] -- KOBA789(こば). http://twitter.com/KOBA789/status/19650947503 [12:02] ffffham has joined the channel [12:04] _announcer: Twitter: "Experimenting with Node.js - Real time mouse tracking http://tumblr.com/xvuebh0ba" -- Christophe. http://twitter.com/tadd31/status/19651203803 [12:05] mikeal has joined the channel [12:08] _announcer: Twitter: "Node.js について [http://j.mp/bnEYvs] # kobaradio" [hr] -- すりーぜっと・でーた・つーすりー. http://twitter.com/zzzdate222/status/19651453252 [12:13] _announcer: Twitter: "[The] [from FlatSpace] Clojure's edge on Node.js - dosync: Clojure's edge on Node.js http://url4.eu/6STqC" [es] -- sldfjd ldajds. http://twitter.com/sldfjd/status/19651743408 [12:13] _announcer: Twitter: "Trying to diagnose a performance issue with my #nodejs / #expressjs setup. Benchmarking #expressjs first to get feel for upper bound." -- James Sadler. http://twitter.com/freshtonic/status/19651747031 [12:14] sveisvei has joined the channel [12:14] _mythz has left the channel [12:18] mischievious has joined the channel [12:18] EyePulp has joined the channel [12:20] _announcer: Twitter: "The app I did last time http://cursorlog.appspot.com/ , now done with WebSockets & Node.js http://j.mp/cxSmGV by @jkreeftmeijer" -- Lim Chee Aun. http://twitter.com/cheeaun/status/19652118347 [12:26] charlenopires has joined the channel [12:27] kriszyp has joined the channel [12:27] _announcer: Twitter: "Experimenting with Node.js http://cl.ly/1nAy / Even for those who do not know what it is, is pretty cool: D" [pt] -- Edmundo Junior. http://twitter.com/edmundojr_/status/19652556973 [12:28] phiggins has joined the channel [12:31] MrNibblesFreenod: afternoon noders [12:34] jetienne has joined the channel [12:36] mscdex: morning [12:37] _announcer: Twitter: ""You are irrelevant, Node.js is so much better, Ruby and Rails are just the new Cobol."@ #RoR RC Blog Post. haha #fun" -- Ben. http://twitter.com/Salzig/status/19653135615 [12:40] jan____ has joined the channel [12:41] omarkj_ has joined the channel [12:41] omarkj has joined the channel [12:41] BryanWB: how can I get git to stop tracking my editor's backup files? [12:42] tjgillies: .gitignore [12:42] BryanWB: i started using .gitignore but only after adding those files by accident [12:42] frodenius: git rm is your friend [12:42] tjgillies: git rm --cached [12:42] tjgillies: git rm will delete from filesystem [12:42] tjgillies: unless thats what you want [12:43] BryanWB: tjgillies, does git rm --cached only delete stuff I am not tracking? [12:43] maushu: Let's sing the Doom Song! Doom doom doom doomy doom doom doom... [12:43] tjgillies: BryanWB, it only delete it from git index, not your hard drive [12:43] BryanWB: tjgillies, ok [12:44] tjgillies: i learned it the hard way, a few times [12:44] tjgillies: "where did my file go?" ;) [12:51] _announcer: Twitter: "About to head up to @silug's shop to do some Node.js hacking with @pgriess." -- Dav Glass. http://twitter.com/davglass/status/19654029392 [12:53] _announcer: Twitter: "Deliver real-time information to your users using node.js http://bit.ly/8Z0kBn" -- Stephane Caron. http://twitter.com/scaron/status/19654163307 [12:56] _announcer: Twitter: "@ 14mooon @ lak3yoni JavaScript programming networks such as server applications http://nodejs.org/" [ar] -- waleedsaud. http://twitter.com/waleedsaud/status/19654332537 [12:56] _announcer: Twitter: "cool node.js exampe from @jkreeftmeijer - http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/" -- Keenan Brock. http://twitter.com/kbrock/status/19654377308 [12:58] _announcer: Twitter: "yay me! I just published my first package to the npm registry http://bit.ly/baQIBf for trollopjs package #node.js" -- Bryan. http://twitter.com/bryanwb/status/19654472919 [13:04] _announcer: Twitter: "cool Node.Js and WebSocket demo: http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/ #nodejs #websocket #javascript" -- Manfred Kroehnert. http://twitter.com/mkroehnert/status/19654909591 [13:06] pgriess has joined the channel [13:07] kodisha has joined the channel [13:10] chrischris has joined the channel [13:12] maushu: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1724792/microsoft-deep-water-oil-spill [13:14] jelveh has joined the channel [13:15] zapnap has joined the channel [13:20] davidsklar has joined the channel [13:20] _announcer: Twitter: "gm v0.1.1 released. New methods: colorize, modulate, chop, and charcoal. http://github.com/aheckmann/gm/tree/v0.1.1 #node.js" -- Aaron Heckmann. http://twitter.com/aaronheckmann/status/19655954852 [13:20] omarkj: maushu: Oops. [13:21] maushu: ,,,wat, [13:21] ben_alman has joined the channel [13:22] omarkj: maushu: The Microsoft story. [13:24] pgriess has joined the channel [13:24] maushu: Ah, yes. [13:25] rwaldron_ has joined the channel [13:25] rwaldron__ has joined the channel [13:26] wattz: Good morning [13:26] coobr has joined the channel [13:26] rwaldron has joined the channel [13:26] jherdman has joined the channel [13:30] confoocious has joined the channel [13:31] Sudhirj has joined the channel [13:34] dnolen_ has joined the channel [13:35] shreekavi has left the channel [13:35] akahn has joined the channel [13:36] mjijackson has joined the channel [13:37] robinduckett: oyigoibiun [13:37] MattJ: No [13:38] daniellindsley has joined the channel [13:38] _announcer: Twitter: "@ Lukaschury I still have a project, but otherwise, I would like to play with node.js, but I neglected OSS projects to get preference" [sk] -- Milan Cermak. http://twitter.com/milancermak/status/19657174636 [13:39] [[zz]] has joined the channel [13:40] coobr has joined the channel [13:40] Astro: elliottcable: hah! you always need your time to re-recognize people :> [13:41] jamescarr has joined the channel [13:43] ffffham has left the channel [13:45] TheEnd2012 has joined the channel [13:45] mikeal has joined the channel [13:46] _announcer: Twitter: "#performant_webapplications #Javascript - looking at NodeJS" -- Madagascar traveler. http://twitter.com/madatraveler/status/19657761958 [13:47] _announcer: Twitter: "[Js Popular Information] InfoQ: Virtual Panel: The Node.js Ecosystem - Frameworks, Libraries and Best Practices http://bit.ly/a7ba5y # javascript" [ja] -- jsMagazine. http://twitter.com/jsMagazine/status/19657787637 [13:48] stepheneb has joined the channel [13:50] donspaulding has joined the channel [13:52] _announcer: Twitter: "Well that's handy... just ran me some jslint from the command line using #nodejs. And so the node experiments begin." -- Henrik Joreteg. http://twitter.com/HenrikJoreteg/status/19658166936 [13:53] liesen has joined the channel [13:53] mape: hmm anyone using nStore? [13:54] mape: mikeal: Did you take a look/help tim with nStore? [13:57] ditesh|cassini has joined the channel [13:59] davidwalsh has joined the channel [14:00] _announcer: Twitter: ""Experimenting with Node.js" by @jkreeftmeijer #tech #javascript http://bit.ly/aWHACE *Watch for the cursors!" -- Elijah Manor. http://twitter.com/elijahmanor/status/19658698946 [14:00] _announcer: Twitter: "@HenrikJoreteg #nodejs will make you want to do almost everything in Javascript... Just because you can." -- Joshua Inkenbrandt. http://twitter.com/joshink/status/19658726424 [14:00] _announcer: Twitter: "Experimenting with Node.js - Jeff Kreeftmeijer http://tumblr.com/xnbebntpn" -- Jeff Hui. http://twitter.com/jeffhui/status/19658751114 [14:01] justinday has joined the channel [14:03] _announcer: Twitter: "This is amazing: "Experimenting with Node.js - Jeff Kreeftmeijer" http://j.mp/bgzpJ3" -- Bruno Figueiredo. http://twitter.com/brunoshine/status/19658953992 [14:06] ceej has joined the channel [14:07] _announcer: Twitter: "My first ever commit to #node.js code: http://github.com/everzet/jade/commits/master +)" -- ever.zet. http://twitter.com/everzet/status/19659196189 [14:08] tekky has joined the channel [14:09] gf3 has joined the channel [14:11] _announcer: Twitter: "Know! @ Elijahmanor "Experimenting with Node.js" city jkreeftmeijer @ # tech # javascript http://bit.ly/aWHACE * Watch for the Cursors!" [no] -- Hans. http://twitter.com/jjcpjacobs/status/19659506293 [14:16] kodisha has joined the channel [14:19] N` has joined the channel [14:20] maushu: God dammit, I seriously need to check by url. [14:20] zaach has joined the channel [14:21] maushu: But there are like tons of url minifiers! [14:21] mape: maushu: what are you doing? [14:21] bradleymeck_: mape what about nstore? [14:22] mape: bradleymeck_: seems it just inserts duplicates even if it is the same key [14:22] bradleymeck_: its append only, so that makes sense [14:22] kodisha: hi guys [14:22] bradleymeck_: append/prune rather than replace [14:22] bradleymeck_: heya kodisha [14:22] softdrink has joined the channel [14:23] mape: bradleymeck_: hmm yeah [14:23] mjr_: maushu: Are you trying to resolve shortened URLs to their final destination? [14:23] bradleymeck_: leads to fast write times, but slower reads, heh [14:23] _announcer: Twitter: "....... Node.js. Even be used to great แหะ: P." [th] -- Thai Pangsakulyanont. http://twitter.com/dtinth/status/19660385395 [14:23] bradleymeck_: plus some memory waste until pruning [14:23] maushu: mjr_: Yes, I know there are some services that unminify urls. [14:24] maushu: But I don't want to depend on those. [14:24] mjr_: Also, they'll be slow. [14:24] maushu: There is only one solution. [14:24] mjr_: Part of why accouncer is so awesome is that the latency is so low. [14:24] maushu: ACTION humps mjr_. [14:25] virtuo has joined the channel [14:25] mape: maushu: on the thing I'm working on now I just cache them, but still have to hit every single unique url [14:26] maushu: mape: Pretty much. [14:27] mape: I'm managing pretty well, and that was while the apple store thingy went wonky on twitter [14:28] josemoreira has joined the channel [14:29] maushu: The apple store went wonky on twitter? [14:29] mape: The apple store was down, so had like 100tweets a min at least [14:29] dji has joined the channel [14:30] maushu: Oh, you mean the apple fans went wonky. For a moment there I thought it was a software problem. [14:30] mape: Ah yeah, oh no [14:33] damienkatz has joined the channel [14:33] rwaldron has joined the channel [14:35] keeto has joined the channel [14:38] _announcer: Twitter: "@HenrikJoreteg I'm sure you're already aware of this, but here's a list of modules available for #nodejs http://is.gd/dMlbv" -- Joshua Inkenbrandt. http://twitter.com/joshink/status/19661460155 [14:38] samdk has joined the channel [14:39] cardona507_ has joined the channel [14:40] _announcer: Twitter: "you know what would be awesome... if we could run Node.js on Windows (allowing us to use less.js to write/maintain CSS)." -- Steven Harman. http://twitter.com/stevenharman/status/19661605387 [14:40] N` has joined the channel [14:41] marshall_law has joined the channel [14:41] _announcer: Twitter: "@stevenharman node.js on windows would let also let *us* use coffeescript reasonable." -- David Laribee. http://twitter.com/laribee/status/19661711485 [14:42] _announcer: Twitter: "Been a while since moving to #tokobagus, I havent test new stuffs, going to look into node.js" -- Ariel. http://twitter.com/chazzuka/status/19661745588 [14:42] _announcer: Twitter: "@ Stevenharman Here is how to run # nodejs in Windows (Cygwin): http://bit.ly/bGed0l" [af] -- Diogo Gomes. http://twitter.com/graphnode/status/19661805332 [14:43] daniellindsley has joined the channel [14:43] cardona507_: good morning noders [14:43] maushu: Maybe I should do a command like !windows @user to send that message automatically. *sigh* [14:44] bradleymeck_: !msg maushu test [14:45] Blink7 has joined the channel [14:45] bradleymeck_: !msg bradleymeck_ test [14:45] MrNibbles: run this in chrome: http://xplsv.com/prods/demos/online/xplsv_orsotheysay/# [14:45] MrNibbles: MrDoob & co's javascript demo [14:46] bpot has joined the channel [14:46] maushu: bradleymeck_: Wat. [14:47] bradleymeck_: nm [14:47] tekky: MrNibbles: any idea why it says to not use Mac OS? seems to be working... [14:47] lazukars has joined the channel [14:47] mape: Anyone have a good name for a little page with node news? [14:48] jelveh: tekky: it's working for me too [14:48] jelveh: nihice [14:48] bradleymeck_: good evening node? [14:48] tekky: its a little choppy as it gets farther in though [14:48] lazukars: Can someone point me in the direction of a good node.js online tutorial. [14:48] BryanWB: i like themorningnode [14:48] bradleymeck_: lazukars depends on what you want to do [14:49] cardona507: themorningnode? [14:49] BryanWB: like the morning news [14:49] coobr has joined the channel [14:49] ajpiano has joined the channel [14:49] lazukars: bradleymeck_: just a brief introduction to what node is, how it works, and how to get node up and running [14:49] bradleymeck_: should have a little marquee at the bottom [14:49] BryanWB: and reminds me of how many say "good morning" when they check into irc in the am [14:50] BryanWB: lazukars, there are great tutorials on www.howtonode.org [14:51] bradleymeck_: http://nodejs.org/ <- about section , simple start -> http://howtonode.org/hello-node [14:51] lazukars: BryanWB: beautiful. thx! [14:52] ewdafa has joined the channel [14:53] quirkey has joined the channel [14:53] _announcer: Twitter: "Great panel interview about node: http://www.infoq.com/articles/nodejs-frameworks" -- jody alkema. http://twitter.com/alkema/status/19662575441 [14:54] _announcer: Twitter: "Been hacking on a nodejs mvc framework all week. I'm calling it Lemmy. git push coming soon." -- Greg Melton. http://twitter.com/grippy/status/19662663583 [14:54] cardona507: I love the nodebot twitter announcer - how cool :) [14:55] bradleymeck_: feel free to tweet back w/ !tweet (goes to nodejsbot account) [14:55] cardona507: awesome [14:57] MrNibbles: tekky: i think its just a lot slower, the JS engine in the mac version of chrome isnt up to speed yet [15:00] jetienne: MrNibbles: nice visual effects [15:00] jetienne: MrNibbles: all canvas? [15:03] _announcer: Twitter: "Screenshot of conversation between Tim Bray and Alex Payne about #nodejs http://yfrog.com/cak2sp" -- Matthew Taylor. http://twitter.com/rhyolight/status/19663355178 [15:07] _announcer: Twitter: "@al3x nodejs is interesting at least" -- Denny Abraham. http://twitter.com/dennyabraham/status/19663632228 [15:07] ceej: anyone know of a good javascript sql parser? [15:08] mape: When doing a service showing relevant node content from twitter, should the tweets be filtered so only links that have 2 tweets are show or should single ones be shown? [15:11] maushu: ceej: No but the sqlite sql syntax docs should help you: http://www.sqlite.org/lang.html [15:11] SubStack: I don't get why people have such a hard time understanding that evented programming sucks in C/C++/Java on account of the lack of lightweight closures [15:11] deepthawtz has joined the channel [15:13] rsms has joined the channel [15:13] zomgbie_ has joined the channel [15:13] bradleymeck_: but you can just make a class for EVERY possible state of the machine! [15:14] bradleymeck_: mape not sure i understand [15:14] mape: bradleymeck_: 1sec [15:14] SubStack: bradleymeck_: with a .run() method! [15:15] josemoreira: is it possible to do python module calls from within node? [15:15] bradleymeck_: omg yes, run! since you cant hold function references without possible havoc im in! [15:15] BryanWB: is there a tool like Python's virtualenv for node? [15:15] SubStack: josemoreira: ipc not good enough? [15:15] bradleymeck_: josemoreira, if you build a module, yes [15:15] josemoreira: ipc? [15:15] josemoreira: would like to use Pygments to do syntax highlighing [15:15] daniellindsley: josemoreira: http://neversaw.us/2010/5/20/py-a-la-node/ [15:16] SubStack: O_O [15:16] SubStack: oh noes, not embedded python [15:16] SubStack: bad memories [15:16] josemoreira: i guess there isnt a syntax highlighter yet in node isnt it? [15:17] SubStack: oh but that link looks excellent [15:17] bradleymeck_: josemoreira, there are plenty of JS syntax highlighters [15:17] SubStack: since that critter wrote a module [15:17] josemoreira: bradleymeck_, so i can use standard js inside node? [15:17] justinday has left the channel [15:17] bradleymeck_: yes [15:18] _announcer: Twitter: "Simply do not take the PHP environment, and spend 10 minutes with nodejs wrote a server test # nodejs" [zh-CN] -- thunderbean. http://twitter.com/thunderbean/status/19664409159 [15:18] tekky: josemoreira: dojo has a nice Syntax highliter and I think it uses very minimal dojo api to do it (mostly straight JS IIRC) [15:18] bradleymeck_: only change to make it a module is to put in module.exports = x and/or exports.x = x [15:19] bradleymeck_: of course, if it refers to the dom for functionality, it will blow up [15:19] josemoreira: tekky, thanks [15:20] tisba has joined the channel [15:21] mape: bradleymeck_: http://mape.me:1342/ what the lowest tweet count should be to show up [15:21] BryanWB: do most folks here use nvm to manage multiple node environments? [15:21] tekky: josemoreira: np, here's a link to a testfile for it, http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/checkout/dojox/highlight/tests/test_highlight.html [15:21] mape: bradleymeck_: And yeah, those tweets will be node related, just using apple now to make development easier (more data, faster) [15:22] creationix has joined the channel [15:22] bradleymeck_: mmmm id stick it at 5? [15:22] tekky: it does use some dom it seems josemoreira [15:22] mape: That is what I figured, but perhaps there aren't enough node tweets to warrant it [15:23] JimBastard has joined the channel [15:23] sammcd has joined the channel [15:23] _announcer: Twitter: "#jquery is the best example for why #nodejs might fail, nested callbacks are simply not fun, and server side people have other choices." -- Sebastian Riedel. http://twitter.com/kraih/status/19664778653 [15:23] SubStack: ^ Doing It Wrong™ [15:23] tekky: heh [15:24] BryanWB: yeah that jQuery is so unpopular [15:24] BryanWB: it'll never catch on [15:24] dmcquay has joined the channel [15:25] benburkert has joined the channel [15:26] JimBastard: !tweet @kraih its called Control Flow, and there are JS libraries for it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_flow [15:26] bradleymeck_: jquery is in server side? [15:26] mape: JimBastard: feedback on: http://mape.me:1342/ (will have node only tweets later on) [15:27] JimBastard: peepin [15:27] bradleymeck_: mape, can you make it dynamicly set? [15:27] JimBastard: looks kinda spammy [15:27] JimBastard: might just be the current content [15:27] mape: bradleymeck_: yeah I guess [15:28] mape: JimBastard: spammy? [15:28] mape: oh, yeah, click on sort by date at the top [15:28] steadicat has joined the channel [15:28] bradleymeck_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levenshtein_distance distance needed? [15:28] ajpiano: hahaha, i just saw that tweet, so awesome [15:29] mape: "Link to page" is when it can't fetch the title from the page [15:29] JimBastard: mape: yeah i dunno, it doesnt look very professional right now. maybe change up the dark grey on grey? [15:29] JimBastard: its close though [15:29] bradleymeck_: lol jim he deleted the tweet [15:30] feydr has joined the channel [15:30] JimBastard: who bradleymeck_ ? [15:30] bradleymeck_: the flow control comment killed him? also he seems to be a perl guy... [15:30] JimBastard: !tweet @kraih nice, now go do some research and when you are ready for your ninja training coming to #node.js on irc.freenode.net :-) [15:31] JimBastard: ACTION says, there will be no FUD in this dojo. [15:31] JimBastard: ACTION says, there will be no hubris in this dojo. [15:31] mape: "Made a few changes to Mojo::DOM today to make it look more like #jquery. :) http://bit.ly/aoeOhx #mojolicious #perl" [15:31] mape: He didn't like jQuery? [15:31] JimBastard: mape: more like change [15:31] mape: Or just the callbacks? [15:32] mape: hehe [15:32] dylang has joined the channel [15:32] jetienne: to copy variables is not easy in js [15:33] feydr: http://pastie.org/1062232 -- trying to get npm (fresh from github) installed, am I missing a dependency or something? [15:33] bradleymeck_: jetienne, depends on what kinda copy [15:33] keeto has joined the channel [15:33] mape: Kinda strange to see that 4/6 of the most retweeted tweets are "get a free *** now", so many people I don't want to know on twitter. [15:34] bradleymeck_: deep, shallow, reference, value, custom, serialization, im sure there are more [15:35] ryan_gahl has joined the channel [15:35] _announcer: Twitter: "Innovation Day/Hackathon at @OPOWER! Working with our CEO @danjyates, @J1MJ0NES, Ben M, Michael D, and using #nodejs #oinnovationday #jobs" -- Dylan Greene. http://twitter.com/dylang/status/19665669549 [15:35] _announcer: Twitter: "This still blows my mind. Very fast and responsive. http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/" -- Scott Koon. http://twitter.com/lazycoder/status/19665682021 [15:36] jetienne: (function(){ yourcodegoeshere })(); <- the solution... and im not kidding [15:36] _announcer: Twitter: "Super Bishi @ thejbf node.js opinion that:)" [tr] -- Gurkan OLUC. http://twitter.com/grkn/status/19665693866 [15:36] _announcer: Twitter: "@kraih if you program functionally you don't need nested callbacks at all. see also dojo.Deferred / Promises. #nodejs #asyncisgood" -- Peter Higgins. http://twitter.com/phiggins/status/19665742386 [15:36] phiggins: damn that thing is quick [15:37] bradleymeck_: we aim to please [15:37] tekky: heh [15:37] JimBastard: phiggins: we are the javascript hate machine [15:38] CrabDude has joined the channel [15:38] JimBastard: anyone talking shit better watch out [15:38] _announcer: Twitter: "before wtf slips from your mouth read what the cursors are -- http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/" -- ian eyberg. http://twitter.com/feydr/status/19665837849 [15:38] shockie has left the channel [15:39] btipling has joined the channel [15:40] adamv has joined the channel [15:42] pgriess has joined the channel [15:42] _announcer: Twitter: "@robconery If you weren't so busy playing with 3 year old Rails stuff and looked at node.js you'd know Tumblr is so 2008, Posterous is NOW!" -- Scott Koon. http://twitter.com/lazycoder/status/19666137689 [15:43] btipling has joined the channel [15:43] voodootikigod_ has joined the channel [15:43] SubStack: hah rails [15:45] tjholowaychuk has joined the channel [15:47] feydr: wow, npm is kinda of a sweet little pkg manager.. [15:47] JimBastard: !tweet @lazycoder ohhhhhh pwnt rails! [15:48] bradleymeck_: isaacs does good, he is going to integrate a better search/ls sometime [15:48] bpot has joined the channel [15:48] bradleymeck_: its built just hes going over specifics [15:50] _announcer: Twitter: "@phiggins How come the most popular #nodejs projects promote this ugly deep nesting style then? http://bit.ly/aBJBcK" -- Sebastian Riedel. http://twitter.com/kraih/status/19666698594 [15:50] phiggins: uh oh [15:50] tjholowaychuk: pfft [15:50] dshaw has joined the channel [15:50] tjholowaychuk: nesting does not bug me one bit [15:50] tjholowaychuk: as long as its within reason, the 4 spaces is what kills it :( [15:50] phiggins: it does when you get into col 40 or so [15:51] phiggins: tabs, 4spaces. go away :P [15:51] bradleymeck_: if you have 4 layers of nesting, you probably dont need all that closure info [15:51] tjholowaychuk: work's orders [15:52] tjholowaychuk: if my work ok's it id rather go down to 2 spaces like the rest of the planet [15:52] coobr has joined the channel [15:52] _announcer: Twitter: "@kraih my guess is so people will file patches and clean that crap up. ;) Same token: php.net is full of ugly examples ... #nodejs" -- Peter Higgins. http://twitter.com/phiggins/status/19666888065 [15:53] JimBastard: the tab key is my control flow library [15:53] bradleymeck_: !tweet @kraih, im not sure there is anything wrong with nesting, but often times the use of closures encourages it. look into Step for "cleaner" callbacks at the price of return values on them [15:53] SubStack: return values, meh [15:53] bradleymeck_: i use em :) [15:53] beanie___: is there a way the get a list of all oben FD's? my node app is leaking but i copy only files from one folder to another [15:53] tjholowaychuk: ACTION hates those control flow libs [15:53] beanie___: s/oben/open [15:53] bradleymeck_: i agree but ppl moan/bitch [15:54] SubStack: beanie___: lsof does that [15:54] JimBastard: ACTION hates tjholowaychuk  [15:54] tjholowaychuk: : [15:54] JimBastard: naah just kidding your alright [15:54] tjholowaychuk: :p [15:54] JimBastard: ^_^ [15:54] JimBastard: ACTION is listening to the couchdb rap melody [15:54] tjholowaychuk: they just cause useless cruft and dependencies [15:54] JimBastard: i cant wait to film the music video for this [15:54] tjholowaychuk: but ya that watcher could use some loven lol [15:54] bradleymeck_: then again i always hated control flow libs, c++'s map is same way, dont want crap like that in my stdlib [15:55] beanie___: lsof | grep node | wc -l [15:55] beanie___: 533 [15:55] beanie___: uuuuups [15:55] beanie___: :D [15:55] beanie___: damn [15:55] JimBastard: beanie___: whats that mean again [15:55] SubStack: tjholowaychuk: 4 spaces 4 life [15:55] tjholowaychuk: I dont hate / love 4 spaces [15:55] tjholowaychuk: just meh [15:55] tjholowaychuk: would rather use 2 [15:55] beanie___: JimBastard: i didn't close the files properly [15:56] bradleymeck_: i use 2, matches my if( and var when i use commas [15:57] devongovett has joined the channel [15:57] mape: bradleymeck_: http://mape.me:1342/6/ there, allows you to set the min amount [15:57] beanie___: how can i close dead connections? [15:57] mape: express is really handy when you get it running [15:57] bradleymeck_: stream.destroy [15:57] bradleymeck_: nice [15:57] tjholowaychuk: mape: what issues were you having? [15:58] mape: tjholowaychuk: I can't edit the ejs files, when I do the template that was changed returns as blank [15:58] mape: the layout.ejs works fine, but index.ejs that was changed is blank [15:58] mape: and when I edit layout.ejs that one turns blank as well [15:59] tjholowaychuk: mape: hm.. I will look into that, I dont use ejs much so there may be something weird I did not catch [15:59] mape: tjholowaychuk: Nah sveisvei helped earlier and it works for him [15:59] jetienne: ok i got a variable which contains an int, how do i copy it ? no reference. plain copy [16:00] mape: Something I'm doing but I have no idea what since there is no error [16:00] dshaw: phiggins: comparing node projects to php. harsh. [16:00] phiggins: i know i know [16:00] tjholowaychuk: mape: funky, maybe there is some exception that is not getting lost in limbo [16:00] phiggins: just saying whenever there is something in pubic you can criticize the structure if people don't do it right [16:01] phiggins: s/can/can't/ [16:01] tjholowaychuk: phiggins: "right" is just an opinion [16:01] phiggins: fair enough, but there is certainly a wrong [16:01] mape: public arguments [16:01] dshaw: agreed [16:01] tjholowaychuk: phiggins: I suppose, no reason to shit a brick over some indentation though lol [16:01] phiggins: i would probably reformat that function to be more readable [16:02] phiggins: that link that is [16:02] phiggins: to me [16:02] tjholowaychuk: yeah I am [16:02] phiggins: but I'm not the author ... but i know JS, and I know it doesn't _have_ to look like that [16:02] sveimac has joined the channel [16:02] phiggins: oh haha [16:02] tjholowaychuk: that one is ridiculous I agree there lol [16:02] phiggins: i'm not trying to say you are a bad coder or anyting [16:02] tjholowaychuk: of course not [16:02] phiggins: yah i looked over the rest of the file, seemed sane [16:02] sveimac: at least hes not drunk :S :P [16:03] tjholowaychuk: it wont be < 40 cols that is for sure lol but hey [16:03] phiggins: i am! [16:03] phiggins: oh wait it's only noon [16:04] __sri has joined the channel [16:04] dshaw: Easy to criticize others code. Tough to crank out really useful shit like tj's been doing. [16:05] tjholowaychuk: I dont disagree though, that method was huge lol [16:05] tjholowaychuk: but meh [16:05] tjholowaychuk: easy to nitpick [16:05] JimBastard: dshaw: no way dude, its fucking hard to bitch at productive people over twitter while producing nothing yourself [16:05] JimBastard: i tried that shit, i just couldnt do it! [16:05] JimBastard: its hard! [16:07] dshaw: later all [16:07] tjholowaychuk: later [16:08] _announcer: Twitter: "playing around with node.js" -- Henning Thies. http://twitter.com/henningthies/status/19667987059 [16:09] fil`work has joined the channel [16:11] creationix has joined the channel [16:11] jakehow has joined the channel [16:12] _announcer: Twitter: "This node.js demo is indeed mind-blowing. http://bit.ly/9890rW" -- brandonburke. http://twitter.com/brandonburke/status/19668277537 [16:12] mape: bradleymeck_: regarding nstore, http://gist.github.com/492434 [16:13] mape: Does that make sence? It appends even though I remove them before adding them again. [16:13] mape: And then it starts growing at a silly pace [16:13] bradleymeck_: removes are appends, use pruning not removes [16:14] bradleymeck_: think of it like a changelog rather than a dictionary [16:14] _announcer: Twitter: "If you mention node.js in a tweet the secret underground node-cabal is notified and delivers swift justice to non-believers." -- James Halliday. http://twitter.com/substack/status/19668378164 [16:14] SubStack: IT MUST BE SAID [16:14] mape: so using .clear() is wrong as well? [16:14] silentrob has joined the channel [16:15] JimBastard: !tweet @substack DEATH TO THE NON BELIEVERS [16:15] bradleymeck_: thats fine, it just should be noted it wont be removed from disc til compaction is done [16:15] jetienne: bradleymeck_: ok i got a variable which contains an int, how do i copy it ? no reference. plain copy [16:16] bradleymeck_: if you want to know a secret my compaction function traverses an array of filters [16:16] bradleymeck_: jetienne if var a=4 just set the other variable to a [16:16] JimBastard: bradleymeck_: have i mentioned how much i love the twitter bot today? [16:16] bradleymeck_: lol [16:16] JimBastard: +20 [16:16] JimBastard: :-D [16:16] bradleymeck_: he needs some work but im busy [16:17] bradleymeck_: booleans, numbers, strings,null,undefined are all singletons (think of them as pass by value) [16:17] jetienne: bradleymeck_: i got var a = 4; and i want b = a but b to be a copy of a. aka if i change 'a' it wont change 'b'. how can i do that [16:17] bradleymeck_: changing b should not change a [16:17] creationix: bradleymeck_: what's that about the price of Step? [16:18] rauchg_ has joined the channel [16:18] bradleymeck_: i lose some of my control on callback return values [16:18] jetienne: bradleymeck_: i want to be able to change 'a' without changing 'b', not excatly the same [16:18] JimBastard: creationix: i heard extjs was selling Step for $19.99 per download [16:18] bradleymeck_: im not sure your problem, i just repled your example and it works fine? [16:18] creationix: ACTION follows @nodejsbot [16:18] JimBastard: *rimshot* [16:18] mape: creationix: Ever had issues with nStore not cleaning the cache file? [16:18] creationix: JimBastard: really, when do I get a chunk of that? [16:19] JimBastard: ACTION sends creationix some internet money [16:19] creationix: mape: yes, but I thought I fixed it [16:19] mape: Its growing like 1MB ever 10sec now even if I run .clear() [16:19] bradleymeck_: var a=4,b=a;a=1;console.log(b) -> "4" [16:19] mape: creationix: on npm? [16:19] creationix: hmm [16:19] creationix: mape: don't think so [16:19] creationix: mape: I'll release a new version [16:19] mape: That might be a good idea ;) [16:20] _announcer: Twitter: "http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/ I don't know if this blew my mind, but it's pretty cool" -- soulcutter. http://twitter.com/soulcutter/status/19668814827 [16:20] bradleymeck_: jetienne only thing i can think of is you are passing an object around that can masquerade as a value using valueOf [16:21] mape: creationix: btw remember the news site we talked about? http://mape.me:1342/8/ figured that might be a start to gathering something [16:21] SubStack: mape: you and your crazy websites! [16:21] SubStack: I love them. [16:21] mape: :) [16:22] tjholowaychuk: mape: haha sweet man [16:22] mape: Will track node tweets later on ofcouse, just using apple as a test subject [16:22] jetienne: http://pastebin.com/uKW31sUi <- bradleymeck_ this seems to proove you right.... but i still dont get why it doesnt work in my code [16:22] creationix: mape: looks nice [16:22] tjholowaychuk: mape: what libs are you ising [16:22] tjholowaychuk: using** [16:22] wattz: ACTION really loves writing JS UI widgets....  [16:22] bradleymeck_: jetienne can you check if typeof yourvariable == "object"? [16:22] mape: connect/express/my asset lib/ejs/twitter-node [16:23] phiggins: wattz: lies! [16:23] tjholowaychuk: mape: sweet :D I just remembered I was going to make a page with express powered apps [16:23] tjholowaychuk: so ill chuck that on there [16:23] mape: oh and nStore, if I can get it working :P [16:23] jetienne: bradleymeck_: it is a "number" [16:23] derferman has joined the channel [16:23] creationix: mape: awesome [16:24] mape: the nStore file is 110MB now.. :/ [16:24] bradleymeck_: mmm then you have some logic off [16:24] damienkatz has joined the channel [16:24] tjholowaychuk: holy lol [16:24] creationix: mape: wow what are you storing in there? [16:24] wattz: phiggins: hahaha, no, i'd rather be working on birdhouse [16:24] mape: And it gets larger faster and faster [16:24] creationix: mape: do you do updates, or just inserts? [16:24] mape: creationix: Well since it is appending and not clearing it adds all the data/urls/shortened urls again and again and again and... [16:24] jetienne: bradleymeck_: i guess. tghanks anyway :) [16:25] mape: creationix: Just a dummy throw everything in there [16:25] mape: But it goes down to like 100KB after i restart it [16:25] creationix: mape: hmm, should be compacting on it's own [16:25] _announcer: Twitter: "LOL "You are irrelevant, Node.js is so much better, Ruby and Rails are just the new Cobol." http://bit.ly/am6mYf (comment #55)" -- Nicolas Mérouze. http://twitter.com/nmerouze/status/19669181781 [16:26] bradleymeck_: mape, even after a compact? [16:26] mape: Doesn't seem like it does, now I do a cache.clear(); cache.save('***', obj) *3; on every tweet [16:26] mape: bradleymeck_: never seems to compact, just grows [16:26] amerine has joined the channel [16:26] mape: And I need to get a domain for it [16:26] mape: but someone squatted nodenews.com :/ [16:26] bradleymeck_: !tweet @nmerouze thats terrible [16:27] tjholowaychuk: mape: ping me when there is a domain so I can update [16:27] creationix: mape: ok, pushed latest nstore [16:27] creationix: v0.2.1 [16:27] bradleymeck_: the nodingtonpost? [16:27] mape: hehe [16:28] JimBastard: AHAHAHA [16:28] creationix: tjholowaychuk: so what's this nDistro? [16:28] JimBastard: +20 nodingtonpost [16:28] mape: creationix: seems a lot better now :) [16:28] creationix: mape: awesome [16:29] creationix: I use nStore in a real site (though much lower traffic) [16:29] creationix: so it gets some testing [16:29] mape: So nodingtonpost ? [16:29] dgathright has joined the channel [16:30] JimBastard: i love that one mape [16:30] blackbrrr has joined the channel [16:30] bradleymeck_: i would move post out if you put it in title [16:30] _announcer: Twitter: "I love it when I make something new and cool and then someone else makes something better. nDistro! http://bit.ly/d6smjT #node.js" -- Tim Caswell. http://twitter.com/creationix/status/19669522226 [16:30] JimBastard: well the title would be "The Nodington Post" [16:30] JimBastard: like, "The Huffington Post" [16:30] tjholowaychuk: creationix: what did you want to know? [16:31] mjr_ has joined the channel [16:31] amerine_ has joined the channel [16:31] creationix: tjholowaychuk: just wondering what the goal was and stuff like that [16:31] creationix: looks cool [16:31] bradleymeck_: just need a pretentious mascot and viola cookies++ [16:31] creationix: mape: I'm not sure I like notingtonpost [16:32] tjholowaychuk: creationix: mostly for people like my roommate that dont nearly have all the dependencies to get started with node [16:32] tjholowaychuk: creationix: just another take on node distros [16:32] mape: Not sure it is easy enough to remember [16:32] shockie has joined the channel [16:32] JimBastard: tjholowaychuk: i taught my roomate javascript and node, hes bad ass now [16:32] creationix: mape: nodeplanet? [16:32] creationix: planetnode? [16:32] JimBastard: -10 for planet* [16:32] creationix: JimBastard: nice [16:32] mape: I already have nodecode.info but that seems generic [16:33] tjholowaychuk: JimBastard: nice! my friend is looking for a job so I told him to learn js I dont think hes to into programming though [16:33] mape: or just use nodejs.se [16:33] daniellindsley: requirehttp.org <- Available. [16:33] JimBastard: tjholowaychuk: its a losing battle, ive been there many times [16:33] mape: And move the irc stats to a subdomain.. yeah that will have to do [16:33] JimBastard: mape: nodejs.se is good too [16:33] JimBastard: nodejs.se/stats [16:33] mape: creationix: Hmm.. the not growing part.. [16:33] mape: seems it doesn't save at all now [16:33] mape: :P [16:33] JimBastard: stats.nodejs.se [16:34] mape: or hmm.. [16:34] mape: creationix: how often does it save to disk= [16:34] mape: *? [16:35] benburkert has joined the channel [16:35] creationix: mape: every save goes straight to disk [16:35] mape: hmm k [16:35] creationix: you don't get the callback on save till it's finished [16:36] tjholowaychuk: ACTION cant waits until nStore is stable, then we can make an nDistro with absolutely no deps! [16:36] tjholowaychuk: YAYyyyyy [16:36] tjholowaychuk: YYYy [16:36] tjholowaychuk: yyy [16:36] mape: Isn't that a bad thing? [16:36] mape: That people are happy to not use dependencies? [16:36] mape: should be the other way around [16:36] b_erb has joined the channel [16:37] matt_c_ has joined the channel [16:37] tjholowaychuk: I would love it for tiny apps, create/deploy really quickly without redis etc [16:38] mape: oh yeah, though you meant node deps [16:38] tjholowaychuk: ohh [16:39] creationix: tjholowaychuk: it's very close, just needs some heavy testing like mape is doing [16:39] tjholowaychuk: creationix: awesome [16:40] creationix: tjholowaychuk: in other words, use it now, and let me know if it breaks ;) [16:40] tjholowaychuk: haha :D [16:41] tjholowaychuk: I need to get back into writing apps its been a while [16:41] tjholowaychuk: libraries are fun but actually using them is nice too [16:41] mape: There, http://nodejs.se/ now I just have to wait for some node tweets with urls in them and then announce it :) [16:41] creationix: mape: what do the urls need? [16:42] creationix: err, what do the tweets need [16:42] dylang: has anybody seen a cms built in node? or a wiki? would like to avoid reinventing for a one-day project i'm that some untechnical people need to be able edit text on and keep learning node on the side. [16:42] mape: node.js or nodejs [16:42] mape: and it has an url [16:42] mape: Should at least [16:42] creationix: dylang: I made wheat, but it doesn't have a web interface for creating articles [16:42] creationix: it's all git based [16:42] creationix: dylang: but making a simple wiki should be real simple [16:43] creationix: dylang: just take one of the rails wiki in 5 minutes tutorials and port it to express+jade+nStore [16:43] Yuffster has joined the channel [16:43] ashleydev has joined the channel [16:44] tjholowaychuk: express/jade/nStore/connect === new Awesome [16:44] dylang: creationix: i'll try that. i agree wiki would be simple but i only have today to design and build everything (getting help with the content from the non-technical people) so anything pre-built helps. one-day company-wide hackathon. [16:44] _announcer: Twitter: "Really enjoyed using express.js http://bit.ly/aBvJhM on my latest #nodejs project." -- Mathias Pettersson. http://twitter.com/mape/status/19670451826 [16:44] mape: There we go [16:44] mape: yay, works [16:44] tjholowaychuk: wahoo! [16:45] mape: should stay there one day [16:45] mape: then it gets cleaned out [16:46] Yuffster has joined the channel [16:47] rsms: mscdex: hello again. regarding the nodejs-mysql-native module you are using -- it doesn't seem to handle the (usual) 3600 second mysql connection timeout, right? What happens e.g. when the server drops the connection? I guess the solution is to connect, talk and close for each event (i.e. a web server request). [16:48] _announcer: Twitter: "how to install #nodeJS on a windows machine: http://ow.ly/2hiXP #cygwin" -- Benoit Collignon. http://twitter.com/petitben/status/19670740776 [16:49] mape: tjholowaychuk: btw if you have time to look on the empty cache for changed templates thing later on I would be really grateful, changing html and then having to restarting the server degrades the experience ;) [16:50] tjholowaychuk: mape: for sure. never had that problem with jade but I will take a look [16:50] tjholowaychuk: mape: and you had app.set('reload views', interval) ? [16:50] mape: Yeah like I said sveisvei tried with both jade and ejs and both worked for him, so don't think it depends on the engine [16:50] tjholowaychuk: interesting [16:50] tjholowaychuk: I will take a look [16:50] mape: http://gist.github.com/492000 [16:51] mape: That is how it looks now [16:51] Yuffster_ has joined the channel [16:51] mape: same if I remove my asset module [16:51] cardona507: what is the express equivalent of grabbing the $_POST["foo"] in PHP? [16:51] saikat has joined the channel [16:51] khug has joined the channel [16:52] tjholowaychuk: mape: weird! [16:52] tjholowaychuk: cardona507: use connect.bodyDecoder middleware, which populates req.body [16:52] Yuffster has joined the channel [16:52] mape: Owell, works now so no stress, really liked with express besides that [16:52] tjholowaychuk: cardona507: or when you use connect.bodyDecoder you can do req.param('username') etc [16:53] mikeal has joined the channel [16:53] tjholowaychuk: mape: sounds good. Dont forget to deploy with EXPRESS_ENV=production you will get some performance boosts there [16:53] cardona507: tjholowaychuk: thanks! and thanks for all of your great work! [16:53] mape: tjholowaychuk: should be the same as spark -E production ? [16:54] tjholowaychuk: mape: yup that will work too I have it checking EXPRESS_ENV and process.connectEnv [16:54] tjholowaychuk: so yup that should be fine [16:54] _announcer: Twitter: "Looking at Node.js, and the async web again. I love it's interoperability with NoSQL technologies. Hate it's difficulty tieing into Drools." -- Joshua Prismon. http://twitter.com/joshprismon/status/19671133159 [16:54] mape: k neat [16:55] mape: tjholowaychuk: getting like 1800req/sec now so should handle the load fine [16:55] kjeldahl has joined the channel [16:55] bridge has joined the channel [16:55] dgathright_ has joined the channel [16:56] matclayton has joined the channel [16:56] mape: make that 2300 [16:56] tjholowaychuk: mape: aight. express itself has nearly no overhead ontop of Connect, but unfortunately with a bunch of middleware it can slow down quick [16:56] tjholowaychuk: but its all relative I suppose [16:56] mape: Yeah, doubt it will be an issue [16:56] coobr: I've used req.body.foo in my practice app. [16:57] pquerna: i wish there was a nodejs-commits mailing list. [16:57] mape: Oh yeah tjholowaychuk, was wondering, if I want to do something like minifying the html, where in the stack does express insert stuff? [16:57] mape: can I do app.use(minifyHtml()) and have that catch the stuff express does? [16:58] tjholowaychuk: mape: "ideally" you would just make it a Connect middleware instead of something Express specific [16:58] tjholowaychuk: mape: most of the data responds through res.send() [16:58] tjholowaychuk: but thats not always the case [16:58] mape: Yeah, but its not like express takes all the connect middleware and then does stuff after that? [16:59] tjholowaychuk: depending on the situation but usually no [17:00] tjholowaychuk: you kinda have to hack into stream methods like we do in connect right now [17:00] tjholowaychuk: if all responses went through res.send() you could potentially have some filtering but not sure thats something I want to promote [17:00] tjholowaychuk: probably not [17:00] tilgovi has joined the channel [17:01] khug has joined the channel [17:01] mape: k [17:01] tjholowaychuk: Express < 1.x was sort of like that, but it ended up just being clunky and awkward [17:01] _announcer: Twitter: "i love node.js mainly for its readability (esp of external libraries)" -- Sam Elliott. http://twitter.com/Lenary/status/19671643119 [17:02] JimBastard: lol sarcasm? [17:02] tjholowaychuk: hahaha [17:02] mape: happy camper [17:03] JimBastard: !tweet @Lenary yaaaaa go node.js! [17:03] JimBastard: take that sarcasm [17:03] _announcer: Twitter: "node.js http://ff.im/-omkI4" -- Brendten Eickstaedt. http://twitter.com/beickstaedt/status/19671751441 [17:05] Egbert9e9 has joined the channel [17:06] cloudhead has joined the channel [17:07] JimBastard: cloudhead in the house [17:07] mape: meetup? [17:07] JimBastard: ahaha no not today [17:08] JimBastard: actually, couchdb meetup tonight i think [17:08] mikeal has joined the channel [17:08] beelzabub: anyone know the reason for the changes of instanceof to isArray? [17:08] devongovett has joined the channel [17:09] amerine has joined the channel [17:09] mtodd has joined the channel [17:10] bradleymeck_: i can fake instanceof? [17:11] bradleymeck_: cant fake a typeof+isArray :( [17:11] bradleymeck_: ephemeron tables seem to be green... just need to make an iterator [17:12] tjholowaychuk: bradleymeck_: where are these ephemeron tables? [17:12] bradleymeck_: in dev on node-overload's ephemerons branch [17:12] bradleymeck_: just testing leaks / adding an iterator now [17:13] tjholowaychuk: :D [17:13] tjholowaychuk: dope [17:13] bradleymeck_: i think i have a leak somewhere in std::map [17:13] _announcer: Twitter: "Anyone know of an OAuth server implementation for node.js?" -- KC. http://twitter.com/reaneyk/status/19672399051 [17:14] bradleymeck_: then we can do oddities like list outstanding callbacks [17:14] Yuffster has joined the channel [17:16] qFox has joined the channel [17:18] JimBastard: bradleymeck_: whats the point of ephemeron tables? memory management of large objects? [17:18] creationix: mape: where did your stats move to? [17:18] mape: creationix: 1sec [17:19] bradleymeck_: well that can be one, but largely they are used in coordination w/ memory managed systems to allow weak references without killing variable buckets. [17:19] bradleymeck_: ie: if i have a map that is convenient to have a mapping of key->value only so long as key is available elsewhere [17:20] MattJ: Is there a way to specify weak references in Javascript? [17:20] rsms: liesen: sneaky! [17:20] bradleymeck_: mattj, no pointerless languages cannot, going to release collectors/ephemeron tables in wild prolly tomorrow [17:20] mape: creationix: http://stats.nodejs.se/ [17:21] MattJ: bradleymeck_: I know at least one pointerless language which lets you specify keys/values of maps as weak references [17:21] tjholowaychuk: bradleymeck_: they are typically non-enumerable though no? [17:21] MattJ: But no, I wasn't aware Javascript could do that [17:21] bradleymeck_: mattj thats an ephemeron table [17:21] bradleymeck_: tj yub, but i loves me some havoc [17:21] tjholowaychuk: haha :D [17:21] bradleymeck_: mattj it requires some c++ [17:22] MattJ: Ah, ok [17:22] bradleymeck_: and plus if you need an iterater you could wrap it, but the c++ map on back has that already [17:22] mischief has joined the channel [17:24] devongovett has left the channel [17:26] tjholowaychuk: mape: you were storing Buffers with nStore right? [17:26] creationix: tjholowaychuk: nope, it only supports JSON [17:26] mape: tjholowaychuk: no, objects [17:26] tjholowaychuk: yarrr [17:26] tjholowaychuk: what about a byte array [17:26] tjholowaychuk: and then pas to the Buffer con [17:26] tjholowaychuk: lol [17:26] tjholowaychuk: damnit [17:26] creationix: tjholowaychuk: mikeal was making a version of nStore that supported binary data [17:27] mape: tjholowaychuk: take the buffer, base64 it and store it in a json [17:27] mape: and add some xml to make it better [17:27] jetienne: make it verifiable :) [17:29] wao: w 3 [17:29] grahamalot has joined the channel [17:29] wao: well, i'm lamer in nodejs, where to start except howtonode.org? [17:29] wao: some kind of tutorials? [17:29] wattz: i haven't heard 'lamer' since i was supper AOL 2.5 leet! [17:29] wattz: :D [17:32] jesusabdullah: wao: http://nodejs.org/api.html and https://developer.mozilla.org/en/A_re-introduction_to_JavaScript [17:32] SubStack: ^ these [17:33] tjholowaychuk: new Buffer(new Buffer('testing').toString('base64'), 'base64') [17:33] tjholowaychuk: does not seem to work to well [17:33] tjholowaychuk: unless im missing something [17:33] wao: wattz: well, times are changing ;) [17:34] sh1mmer has joined the channel [17:34] wao: jesusabdullah: thanks :) [17:34] wattz: s/are/they are a/g [17:34] jesusabdullah: wao: np. The reintroduction is hard to find if you're not looking for it (lots of javascript crap floating around) but it's probably one of the better ways to get a feel for javascript [17:35] tjholowaychuk: ryah: should new Buffer(str, 'base64') work? [17:37] matclayton has left the channel [17:37] sveimac has joined the channel [17:37] _announcer: Twitter: "illume's nodejs_jquery_templating at master - GitHub http://ow.ly/2hkTn #nodejs" -- Loki Zavala. http://twitter.com/Siedrix/status/19673946768 [17:42] programble has joined the channel [17:43] jsilver has joined the channel [17:50] jelveh has joined the channel [17:54] silentrob has joined the channel [17:55] brianmario has joined the channel [17:55] huyhong has joined the channel [17:56] jelveh has joined the channel [17:56] bradleymeck_: god working in c++ brings back cs101 nightmares [17:58] bradleymeck_: keys are working, collisions are happening [17:58] ceej: meh i wish there was already a javascript sql parser :/ [17:59] huyhong has left the channel [18:00] shockie has joined the channel [18:02] TommyM has joined the channel [18:02] _announcer: Twitter: "In-Process Node.js Queues http://is.gd/dLmIv" -- Hernan Garcia. http://twitter.com/theprogrammer/status/19675442923 [18:02] wattz: hh [18:02] wattz: you did c++ in cs101? [18:02] wattz: I did C. [18:02] wattz: -_- [18:02] FransWillem has joined the channel [18:02] tjholowaychuk: ACTION wishes he went to school :( [18:02] TommyM has left the channel [18:03] jesusabdullah: You didn't? [18:03] tjholowaychuk: wish i did [18:03] JimBastard: we did VB6 in my first CS class, i hax'd the network share and stole all the source from someone else [18:03] bradleymeck_: tjholowaychuk, how pristine do you need those tables? im having some collisions right now [18:03] tjholowaychuk: i woudl have have way more skills by now lol [18:03] JimBastard: the next class was all C++ though [18:03] mjr_: I went to a funky liberal arts college and we did Pascal in CS101. [18:03] jesusabdullah: The CS department here made me take CS 106 instead of starting at the 200 level [18:03] beelzabub: we did data structures in C++ [18:03] beelzabub: that was it [18:03] JimBastard: lol i learned c++ in highschool classes [18:03] JimBastard: not college [18:04] beelzabub: i just picked up C++ on my own [18:04] jesusabdullah: It was a class that art students took when they wanted to avoid having to take math classes [18:04] SubStack: jesusabdullah: prereqs don't actually matter at all [18:04] jesusabdullah: it was in java [18:04] tjholowaychuk: bradleymeck_: I dont need them at all ATM [18:04] jesusabdullah: SubStack: I agree. Your CS department sucks. [18:04] bradleymeck_: k [18:04] jesusabdullah: they MADE me [18:04] SubStack: jesusabdullah: hah, they didn't make you, you LET them tell you [18:04] jesusabdullah: and it's part of why I didn't become a CS major [18:04] SubStack: ACTION skipped right into cs202 [18:04] jesusabdullah: They insisted pretty hard that, without experience, well... [18:05] jesusabdullah: and tbh I wasn't very forceful back then. [18:05] SubStack: "experience" [18:05] SubStack: whatever that even means [18:05] jesusabdullah: As a high school senior, I wanted to believe that people actually knew what they were talking about [18:05] SubStack: ACTION read the daily wtf in high school [18:05] jesusabdullah: SubStack: Screwing with my TI-83+ during idle hours of math class? [18:05] maushu has joined the channel [18:06] _announcer: Twitter: "NodeJS and web sockets. Love. http://bit.ly/9vkyBx" -- Judd Vinet. http://twitter.com/juddv/status/19675691108 [18:06] jesusabdullah: A combination of really dumb high school faculty and really REALLY slow internet and really shitty home computing meant that I wasn't really able to get into tech as much as I would've liked in high school [18:06] SubStack: I used my ti83 to completely automate many of my math assignments [18:06] SubStack: I'd spend like 20 minutes writing the program, and like 3 minutes solving all the problems with it [18:06] jesusabdullah: Hah [18:06] jesusabdullah: Nice [18:06] SubStack: and I'd be done before everyone else [18:07] SubStack: it rocked [18:07] jesusabdullah: I was done before everyone else anyway >_< [18:07] jesusabdullah: Sometimes made a lot of sloppy mistakes though [18:07] puppetdragon has joined the channel [18:07] jesusabdullah: but that's what computers are for amirite? [18:07] puppetdragon: hi [18:07] jesusabdullah: Sup dawg [18:07] SubStack: shit, thinking back [18:08] SubStack: the first time I saw anonymous closures I was 13 [18:08] SubStack: with setTimeout in javascript [18:08] SubStack: it ruined c++ for me [18:08] SubStack: and rightly so [18:09] FransWillem: SubStack: C++ isn't that bad :p [18:09] puppetdragon has joined the channel [18:09] FransWillem: We wouldn't have Node.js or V8 without C++ ;) [18:10] hdon_ has joined the channel [18:10] jesusabdullah: but think of how much more awesome it would be if it were in fortran! [18:10] jesusabdullah: YEAH [18:10] adamv: "the first time I saw anonymous closures I was 13" and of course now anyone can see all the closures they want for free on the Internet [18:10] sveimac has joined the channel [18:10] SubStack: adamv: what [18:10] _announcer: Twitter: "My Node.js experiment (http://bit.ly/9890rW) spent 26 hours on the @hackernews' front page. Thanks everyone. :)" -- Jeff Kreeftmeijer. http://twitter.com/jkreeftmeijer/status/19675958287 [18:12] FransWillem: Lol, ok, who's following my cursor on that page :p? [18:13] jesusabdullah: unf unf [18:13] dylang: In express I'm having trouble having the views ignore cache. I have the env set to dev and using res.render('index.ejs', {cache: false}); Both the view and layout are coming from cache. [18:13] SubStack: 26 hours! [18:13] JimBastard: theres a lot of people in the node room [18:13] _announcer: Twitter: "The article's message - important to the Ruby Fibers crowd, Node.js, Eventlet, etc - is: "Just Because It's Async Doesn't Mean It's Fast."" -- C. Scott Andreas. http://twitter.com/cscotta/status/19676133027 [18:13] mape: dylang: app.set('reload views', 1000); [18:14] jesusabdullah: Ahhh [18:15] dylang: mape: thanks. i just assumed it wouldn't store anything if cache was disabled. [18:19] ceej: finally! heroku updated! [18:19] dshaw has joined the channel [18:19] josemoreira has joined the channel [18:19] ceej: creationix: http://sd-frontend.heroku.com/ [18:19] ceej: the heroku update finally fixed images [18:20] creationix: ceej: awesome, now if only I can get my site to restart [18:20] creationix: http://sousaball.heroku.com/ [18:20] creationix: still busted for me [18:20] ceej: hmm i wonder why mine is fine [18:20] ceej: I did do a few tweaks [18:20] creationix: I can't get "heroku logs" to show anything [18:20] creationix: I'm not sure mine is restarting [18:21] ceej: I don't think it has...mine hasn't been accessed in awhile [18:21] ceej: jsut do a random push [18:21] creationix: ok, trying that [18:21] FransWillem: Hmmm, what module would you guys recommend for generic Comet handling? e.g. abstracting over WebSocket, XHR, IFrame, etc? I tried Socket.IO but it seemed rather buggy :/ [18:21] creationix: changes sys.error to console.log [18:22] creationix: FransWillem: socket.io is awesome [18:22] creationix: it's under active development [18:22] ceej: there you go :) [18:22] creationix: ceej: sweet [18:22] creationix: so heroku restart wasn't working for me then [18:22] FransWillem: creationix: Tried it, but first thing I noticed is that if I restart the server and make a new connection from the client, I get an onconnected event on *all* of the previously created sockets that should be disconnected :/ [18:23] creationix: FransWillem: rauchg_ is the creator, he's on here a lot [18:23] rauchg_: hi FransWillem [18:23] creationix: FransWillem: long poll is pretty easy if you don't need the super low latency of websockets [18:24] rauchg_: if you only need long polling connect is the way to go [18:24] rauchg_: FransWillem: the only buggy point right now is disconnect handling, which is being addressed in 0.5 [18:24] rauchg_: but it should work pretty decently [18:24] FransWillem: k [18:25] tmpvar has joined the channel [18:25] creationix: FransWillem: if you have any connect questions, then I or tjholowaychuk are the ones to ask [18:25] FransWillem: Mind if I bring up some other things I noticed I feel don't quite fit ? [18:25] JimBastard: lulz [18:25] creationix: And if you day is dull, chat with JimBastard [18:26] FransWillem: ;) [18:26] tmpvar: hello noders [18:26] creationix: JimBastard: did you see you're the most chatty in the room? http://stats.nodejs.se/ [18:27] _announcer: Twitter: "@jkreeftmeijer nice work. I'm going to start a Node.js experiment of my own." -- Matt Weg. http://twitter.com/mattweg/status/19676928703 [18:29] dgathright has joined the channel [18:29] creationix: I think I'll go update some out-of-date howtonode articles [18:29] rauchg_: FransWillem: don't use the 05 branch [18:29] rauchg_: it's under _heavy_ development [18:29] rauchg_: and of course will be buggy [18:29] creationix: people keep pulling up old articles and asking why stuff doesn't work (old is > 4 months ago) [18:30] donpdonp: the idea of publishing a book is laughable in that context [18:30] creationix: donpdonp: nah, books take a year to reach print [18:30] creationix: by then it will be stable enough for a book to make sense [18:31] tmpvar: asuming the api has frozen ;) [18:31] creationix: frozen or not, it will be useful [18:31] tmpvar: I hear that, but I've always considered invalid documentation worse than no documentation [18:32] tmpvar: s/invalid/out-dated [18:32] creationix: tmpvar: what about mostly valid documentation [18:32] dshaw: Better to have functional examples. [18:32] creationix: besides, if the technology changes, then you can sell a second edition [18:32] dshaw: Can maintain functional status with tests. [18:32] creationix: most the sales will likely be the pdf version anyway [18:32] tmpvar: creationix, mostly valid is mostly helpful :) [18:32] creationix: :) [18:33] creationix: good, because howtonode is mostly right [18:33] creationix: ACTION goes back to updating old stuff [18:36] dimvar has joined the channel [18:36] _announcer: Twitter: "Experimenting with Node.js and Websockets: http://otf.me/lC #yum" -- Eric Marden. http://twitter.com/xentek/status/19677470857 [18:36] dimvar: hi all [18:36] dimvar: how can I modify the maximum stack size for node? [18:37] zomgbie_ has joined the channel [18:37] zomgbie has joined the channel [18:41] _announcer: Twitter: "In-Process Node.js Queues | techno weenie http://ow.ly/18jz5S" -- Javascript News. http://twitter.com/del_javascript/status/19677763710 [18:41] _announcer: Twitter: "If you're interested on mixing Node.js and Python I've just hacked a first version of Node SCGI client http://github.com/caludio/node-scgi" -- Claudio Cicali. http://twitter.com/caludio/status/19677766921 [18:41] SubStack: o_O [18:41] wattz: ._. [18:42] CIA-77: node: 03Ryan Dahl 07master * r5459e5c 10/ (doc/api.markdown src/node.js): Globalize the Buffer object - http://bit.ly/975t6b [18:43] jxson has joined the channel [18:44] dshaw has joined the channel [18:46] _announcer: Twitter: "@jkreeftmeijer will do jeff. Quick question. What's the db of choice for node.js? Is mongo or couch a good fit? Are there drivers?" -- Richard Sage. http://twitter.com/richardsage/status/19678058836 [18:46] _announcer: Twitter: "Updated two of the original howtonode.org articles to latest node standards. http://bit.ly/bepLE5 http://bit.ly/9jDbfG #node.js" -- Tim Caswell. http://twitter.com/creationix/status/19678074705 [18:46] _announcer: Twitter: "@jkreeftmeijer Nice work--convinced me to take a serious look at Node.js. All those mouse cursors looked like flies swarming on my monitor." -- Mani Tadayon. http://twitter.com/bwsr_sr/status/19678085219 [18:46] devinus has joined the channel [18:47] devinus: ewww the Buffer object is global now. gross [18:47] tmpvar: damn creationix, you're quick [18:47] SubStack: what [18:47] creationix: tmpvar: those two were easy [18:47] creationix: it's get's harder [18:47] SubStack: global -_- [18:47] tmpvar: i think its fine [18:47] tmpvar: one less require ;) [18:47] tmpvar: now its as easy to use a buffer as it is to use a string [18:48] _announcer: Twitter: "I got a new Apricot proof of concept working on node.js. Stay tuned for some real awesomeness! #nodejs" -- Rob Ellis. http://twitter.com/rob_ellis/status/19678151197 [18:48] tmpvar: which is perfecto [18:48] creationix: new we just need to speed up Buffer creation [18:48] creationix: then we could use them everywhere [18:48] tmpvar: its slow? [18:48] creationix: relativly [18:48] creationix: try creating lots of small buffers in a loop [18:49] tmpvar: ah, so its a new alloc [18:49] creationix: yep [18:49] creationix: buffer is mostly a malloc wrapper best I can tell [18:49] dimvar: creationix, tmpvar: is there a command line option for node that determines the max stack size, or is the stack size fixed in Node? [18:49] tmpvar: yeah, that makes sense.. keeps memory down :) [18:49] tmpvar: dimvar, i think its fixed [18:49] creationix: dimvar: no clue [18:49] dimvar: oh bummer. [18:49] tmpvar: dimvar, do you want to make it bigger or cut it down? [18:50] dimvar: make it bigger [18:50] tmpvar: ah, no idea then [18:50] creationix: dimvar: just put a single process.nextTick on your recursive loop [18:50] dimvar: I have some interpreter with lots of recursion [18:50] creationix: it's async and will reset the stack [18:50] creationix: all callbacks start on a fresh stack [18:50] creationix: dimvar: just don't call it a million times [18:50] bradleymeck_: !tweet @cscotta agreed that async does not mean fast, it just means you arent holding up in wait loops [18:51] dimvar: creationix: I'll check that out, thanks. [18:51] bradleymeck_: what the heck is Apricot exactly [18:51] creationix: bradleymeck_: ever used hpricot? [18:51] bradleymeck_: nope i avoid python and ruby like plague when i can [18:52] tmpvar: is there a way to force a GC? [18:52] bradleymeck_: node-gc [18:52] FransWillem: Is there a HTML-escape function to convert to HTML-entities in Node.js somewhere? [18:52] creationix: FransWillem: .replace(/ something like that. [19:23] FransWillem: JimBastard: Also, they all seem to abstract away from the existing HTTP server, while I think that's already a perfectly valid starting point that doesn't need that much abstracting away :/ [19:23] FransWillem: JimBastard: Actually, it should already compile, just not the entire thing (obviously the "someRandomApp" module was made up :p) [19:23] JimBastard: uhh huh [19:24] _announcer: Twitter: "Reading more about Node.js, trying not to get tricked into all the excitement." -- Scott A Garman. http://twitter.com/scottagarman/status/19680261306 [19:24] JimBastard: !tweet @scottagarman go go go node.js! excitement time! [19:24] tjholowaychuk: dylang: ah :) well would not hurt to expose it anyways. The "magic" locals I try to make verbose to prevent collision, so maybe.. parentView? not sure [19:24] tjholowaychuk: hmm [19:24] tjholowaychuk: hmMmM [19:24] stride: doesn't express let you route to any module that offers a specific render function? [19:24] tjholowaychuk: well i guess "view" makes sense sorta [19:24] JimBastard: npm Couldn't remove /Users/Marak/.node_libraries/.npm/.tmp/1277032264334-0.9295083903707564 Error: EPERM, Operation not permitted '/Users/Marak/.node_libraries/.npm/.tmp/1277032264334-0.9295083903707564' [19:24] tjholowaychuk: stride: Connect you mean? [19:24] JimBastard: awesome [19:25] tjholowaychuk: stride: but both will work with anything with this sig (req, res, next) [19:25] jpld has joined the channel [19:25] stride: tjholowaychuk: oh, is that in the connect part? okay :) [19:25] JimBastard: tmpvar: you have any idea about that one? my npm install seems borked now [19:25] FransWillem: tjholowaychuk: Ah, that's actually precisely what I was aiming for, connect and express you mean ? [19:25] JimBastard: last fucking time i endorse anything [19:25] stride: didn't have enough time to put something together with express/connect yet.. shamefully :) [19:25] tjholowaychuk: im so lost [19:25] tjholowaychuk: haha [19:26] tjholowaychuk: dylang: I think "view" would be safe actually, who passes a local named view anyways :p [19:26] JimBastard: tjholowaychuk: hey i was trying to setup express and connect but i was having caching issues with the views where is the plugin that will varnish my database [19:26] FransWillem: Hmm, although express seems to still be using that horrible .get() call stuff :/ [19:26] _announcer: Twitter: "node.js http://goo.gl/fb/uHAdT #javascript #framework #programming #web #development" -- Delicious Over 50. http://twitter.com/readelicious/status/19680393387 [19:26] dylang: tjholowaychuk: That would be helpful. I wouldn't hate _view, though Crockford might. [19:26] elliottcable: Astro 3» :3 [19:26] elliottcable: Astro 3» you should be in ##Paws [19:27] tjholowaychuk: FransWillem: what would you suggest? [19:28] FransWillem: tjholowaychuk: To put the "directory structure" in a JSON like thing, or at least in one central place, without function like .get (which imply you're doing something and getting something upon calling, it'd already be much better if it was something like register(acceptedMethods,...) like register(["GET"],...); ) [19:28] tjholowaychuk: ACTION is going to remove "reload views" completely, only "production" will cache [19:29] JimBastard: lulz [19:29] tjholowaychuk: just have to hope that people change the env lol [19:29] tjholowaychuk: but that will prevent all this weird cache confusion [19:30] FransWillem: ? [19:30] JimBastard: FransWillem, GET is the HTTP verb [19:30] JimBastard: FransWillem: i think there is a lot to be said about Sinatra when it comes to http routing on the server [19:30] tmedema: Slightly node unrelated question, but the only way to load external websites from the client side without the external site having a policy file is with a java applet right? [19:31] JimBastard: tmedema: nope [19:31] tmedema: Oh what other ways are there JimBastard ? [19:31] JimBastard: tmedema: you want to get by same-origin policy? [19:31] tmedema: JimBastard: hmm? the target is on an external server [19:31] FransWillem: JimBastard: yes, and as a HTTP verb it's fine, but using it as an arbitrary function name just looks awful, if I do something.get(...), I expect to get some value, not actually change some state somewhere. something.registerGet would be a whole different story, though. [19:31] JimBastard: FransWillem: so go write a demo and come back [19:32] JimBastard: im done with that conversation [19:32] JimBastard: tmedema: what you trying to do with the file? [19:32] stagas: mape: nice site that new one [19:32] JimBastard: tmedema: is it a JS file? [19:33] mape: stagas: hopefully it will be full of fun stuff :) [19:33] tmedema: JimBastard: number of things I could think of, basically I want to allow a service where my code manipulates an external site/file and shows the result. But I cannot redirect all the data through my own server as that would cause those external sites to block my server for bandwidth hogging [19:33] tmedema: JimBastard: any file really.. websites mostly I guess [19:33] spot__ has joined the channel [19:33] JimBastard: tmedema: you want to do binary file reading in the browser? [19:34] tmedema: JimBastard: no no need for that [19:34] stagas: mape: does it auto-update or needs refresh [19:34] mjijackson has joined the channel [19:34] JimBastard: tmedema: "where my code manipulates an external site/file and shows the result" [19:34] JimBastard: tmedema: "any file really.." [19:34] mape: stagas: needs refresh, tried to keep it as lean as possible, no clientside js [19:34] mape: stagas: but I've thought about a doing it [19:34] tmedema: JimBastard: well, any text based file would suffice I guess :) [19:34] JimBastard: so what "file" are you editing, you making no sense [19:34] gf3_ has joined the channel [19:35] tmedema: Does it matter JimBastard ? The problem is not the kind of file, the problem is that you don't have permission to make a client download assets from an external site (?) [19:35] coobr has joined the channel [19:35] tmedema: As far as I know [19:35] JimBastard: tmedema: "download" [19:35] tmedema: Hmm? [19:35] JimBastard: you cant just throw out terms like that [19:36] tmedema: Not sure what other term to use [19:36] JimBastard: i think you are screwed anyway [19:36] tmedema: Yea, that's why I asked if the only way was through an accepted java applet [19:36] JimBastard: if you dont have control of the 3rd party site and you dont want to proxy server-side [19:37] tmedema: So basically the answer to my original question would be "yes" ;) [19:37] JimBastard: you cant load it up in an iframe and rip it out? [19:37] _announcer: Twitter: "I recommend anyone with websocket # enabled browser (chrome #) the # # node.js http://bit.ly/cDCzsE or Mojo http://bit.ly/bVFmOQ demo :-)" [de] -- Matthias Ries. http://twitter.com/2mad4milk/status/19681025793 [19:37] JimBastard: i always forget about the limitation with that [19:37] tmedema: No you don't have access to an iframe's source JimBastard [19:37] tmedema: if the iframe has an external source [19:37] JimBastard: tmedema: and html5 is not a choice with message passing? [19:38] tmedema: JimBastard: not sure, not very familiar with html5's features, but if it allows you to somehow get the source of external websites on the client side, then yes I guess :) [19:39] tmedema: Anyway I was just looking for a confirmation, thanks for the chat [19:39] JimBastard: yeah, sorry i couldnt help more [19:39] tmedema: np [19:39] JimBastard: i always think same-origin is weaker then it actually is [19:39] JimBastard: i seem to forget everytime [19:40] _announcer: Twitter: "@jkreeftmeijer That node.js post was awesome. Really good stuff. Definitely gonna look over it again and try a few things myself." -- Richard Session. http://twitter.com/richardsession/status/19681195821 [19:41] _announcer: Twitter: "@bigfleet so how’d the Node.js’in’ go?" -- ell.io. http://twitter.com/elliottcable/status/19681258533 [19:45] sveimac has joined the channel [19:46] aconran_ has joined the channel [19:51] dgathright has joined the channel [19:51] _announcer: Twitter: "websockets and node.js => collaborative real-time mouse movements http://bit.ly/aMz8qV #omg #omg #omg" -- Mario Volke. http://twitter.com/webholics/status/19681811491 [19:51] mtodd has joined the channel [19:53] maushu has joined the channel [19:53] _announcer: Twitter: "Finally updated the Promise/EventEmitter/Continuable article to use callbacks instead of Promises. http://bit.ly/acrixz #Node.js" -- Tim Caswell. http://twitter.com/creationix/status/19681935210 [19:54] bradleymeck_: ok who wants to take the plunge and try to break my collectors and ephemeron tables [19:55] _announcer: Twitter: "Looking for WebSocket browser, others see the mouse cursor is now seen in real time. Interesting. Node.js moving a roll. http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/" [ja] -- O-Show. http://twitter.com/oshow/status/19682032310 [19:55] creationix: I can't bear to update http://localhost:3000/control-flow-part-iii [19:55] creationix: it has quotes like "Sells it soul to `wait`" [19:56] creationix: how can I remove that? [19:56] mape: creationix: if you are posting something later today, would you mind trying #nodejs instead of #node.js? Just to check if that is the issue [19:57] creationix: mape: sure [19:57] mape: thanks :) [19:59] eday has joined the channel [20:01] eday: if I call socket.end() on "end", it seems data buffered for output doesn't get flushed before closing the connection. it's not obvious the best way to handle this. I could close on "drain" only after "end", but the buffer may be empty in "end" and I don't see a way to check output buffer size there [20:01] eday: I hope I'm missing something obvious :) [20:02] BryanWB has joined the channel [20:03] _announcer: Twitter: "[del] [from punkaroo] InfoQ: Virtual Panel: The Node.js Ecosystem - Frameworks, Libraries and Best Practices: http://url4.eu/6ThOR" -- sldfjd ldajds. http://twitter.com/sldfjd/status/19682482193 [20:03] kuya: mscdex: grappler example works well... shame i have to read the source to work out how to get anywhere tho ^_^ [20:04] mscdex: kuya: what is missing from the api doc? [20:04] kuya: actually [20:04] femtoo has joined the channel [20:04] kuya: im stoopid [20:04] kuya: sorry - carry on [20:04] _announcer: Twitter: "Benchmarking some nodejs features I just received - Requests per second: 666.6666666666666 (Eddie would approve)" -- Greg Melton. http://twitter.com/grippy/status/19682577794 [20:05] kuya: i read too quick and missed where it said to visit /test [20:05] mscdex: yeah [20:05] kuya: couldnt you just serve that from / and avoid any confusion [20:05] hoodow has joined the channel [20:06] mscdex: maybe [20:07] mscdex: i'll be writing up some more examples soon too [20:07] mscdex: i set up a live demo on my site last night [20:07] mscdex: it's nothing fancy, but it shows the current status of nodebuilder [20:08] kuya: what exactly are server sent events? iv never heard of those [20:08] kuya: will wikipedia tell me? [20:08] mscdex: it's an html5 thing alongside websockets [20:10] mscdex_ has joined the channel [20:11] kuya: ah i see [20:11] muhqu has joined the channel [20:11] mscdex: kuya: http://dev.w3.org/html5/eventsource/ [20:12] kuya: thanks [20:12] hellp has joined the channel [20:12] mscdex: it used to be supported by opera only, but then webkit picked up the newest draft recently. the bad thing is now opera continues to use an outdated draft of the standard [20:12] mscdex: :\ [20:13] mscdex: but i support it in grappler nonetheless [20:13] _announcer: Twitter: "desire of something new ... read about nodejs and riak ... but there is a database key-value but as a tree (fs not offer)?" [ru] -- SovGVD. http://twitter.com/sovgvd/status/19683074812 [20:13] kuya: if your going to be writing examples... one how to use connect and grappler together would be great ^_^ [20:14] eday: Here is some code/test that demonstrates the problem: http://pastebin.com/TAveTzDA any feedback appreciated [20:15] hoodow has joined the channel [20:15] mscdex: eday: why call .end() in the 'end' event? [20:16] ashleydev has joined the channel [20:16] tyfighter has joined the channel [20:17] WarBot has joined the channel [20:17] fictorial: rsms: what font are you using in textmate? [20:17] mjr_: eday: I'm guessing you need to listen for a 'drain' event on socket. [20:17] 50UAAF4RK has joined the channel [20:17] PyroPeter has joined the channel [20:17] quirkey has joined the channel [20:18] mscdex: yeah, what mjr_ said [20:18] mscdex: or maybe sys.pump the socket to itself [20:18] mscdex: :P [20:20] ryah: need callbacks on write() [20:20] mjr_: oh yes [20:20] mjr_: Hey ryah are you doing the writev aggregation trick for the HTTP chunk data? [20:20] mjr_: or is that separate write() calls? [20:20] ryah: no [20:20] ryah: want to though [20:24] creationix: there goes half the room [20:24] zaach: o.O [20:25] creationix: I knew I shouldn't have dig that hole in my backyard! 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channel [20:29] s0enke has joined the channel [20:29] ashb has joined the channel [20:29] Connorhd has joined the channel [20:29] Roelven has joined the channel [20:29] gbot2 has joined the channel [20:29] Atmoz has joined the channel [20:29] konobi has joined the channel [20:29] innu has joined the channel [20:29] zhesto has joined the channel [20:29] jakob has joined the channel [20:29] Pilate has joined the channel [20:29] coffeecup has joined the channel [20:29] tsyd has joined the channel [20:29] mscdex: crazy :S [20:29] jchris has joined the channel [20:30] mscdex: there's a /. article that says java's async nio libraries are 25% slower than the sync io libraries [20:30] mscdex: again?! 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joined the channel [20:31] konobi has joined the channel [20:31] skampler has joined the channel [20:33] hoodow has joined the channel [20:33] bradleymeck_: i can believe it since its using vm over mem controller [20:33] bradleymeck_: hurray netsplits [20:33] bpot has joined the channel [20:35] nrstott has joined the channel [20:37] maqr has joined the channel [20:40] JimBastard: lol go netsplit! [20:40] JimBastard: <3 irc [20:43] jtoy has joined the channel [20:43] tisba has joined the channel [20:43] mscdex: netsplits give you a chance to be sentimental [20:43] bradleymeck_: ephemerons / collectors are now on node-overload head, ready for some abuse, need to read up more on allocators cause the std::map allocator is terrible for mem use [20:44] JimBastard: bradleymeck_: i must have missed the answer before [20:44] JimBastard: whats the point of this stuff? [20:44] JimBastard: not trusting v8 to gc? [20:44] JimBastard: or letting v8 gc better? [20:44] bradleymeck_: neither [20:44] JimBastard: ACTION is soo confused [20:44] elliottcable: whaaa [20:44] JimBastard: i read the description from racket [20:44] JimBastard: but it still didnt click [20:44] elliottcable: what? [20:45] JimBastard: rachet [20:45] bradleymeck_: if i have a list of nodes for example, and all of these nodes are associated w/ values as long as they can be references, how do you make sure they are cleared off that list while allowing GC to occur? [20:45] JimBastard: ratchet [20:45] JimBastard: whatever [20:45] bradleymeck_: ephemeron tables [20:45] mikeal: hahaha [20:45] mikeal: awesome [20:45] elliottcable: I don’t get it. [20:45] bradleymeck_: basically they are like weak mappings between objects and values [20:45] charlesjolley- has joined the channel [20:46] JimBastard: bradleymeck_: i thought v8 tries to make magic calculations to do that? [20:46] eday: mjr_: http://pastebin.com/SPND66hn still seems to not flush, write() is always succeeding [20:46] mikeal: JimBastard: you can GC an object that has a reference pending [20:46] mikeal: so any values in that object can't be GC'd either [20:47] bradleymeck_: var a=new Obj();var objs=[[a,Value]];a=null; <- will not collect a, but how do you know when to remove the pairing off the array? [20:47] elliottcable: http://www.last.fm/robots.txt [20:47] mikeal: ephemeron table is like an object where the values can get GC'd if there aren't any references except them one from the object itself [20:47] elliottcable: :D [20:47] mikeal: but......... [20:47] mikeal: i've seem like 1/2 of a real world use case for this [20:47] mikeal: seen [20:48] JimBastard: mikeal: im glad that last.fm wont kill me [20:48] elliottcable: Uhrm. [20:48] elliottcable: What’s the point of that? [20:48] mscdex: something like this would be great for a connections map [20:48] elliottcable: Why would you want to GC something that has a reference to it? [20:48] elliottcable: ACTION is so lost [20:48] elliottcable: ACTION is also a noob at this stuff [20:48] mjr_: eday: are you sure this isn't an issue with nc? [20:48] bradleymeck_: i dont want that reference if it is only in that array [20:48] FransWillem: Guys, could I please get some feedback on http://github.com/Frans-Willem/NodeRequestRouter ? [20:48] mikeal: elliottcable: because you may need to enumerate them from time to time, but you want ones that dont' have any other references to get GC'd [20:49] elliottcable: mikeal 3» I get that, I don’t see the point. You can’t enumerate it once they’re gone… or… am I missing something? [20:49] JimBastard: cloning FransWillem , brb [20:49] mikeal: you can enumerate what is left [20:49] bradleymeck_: easy example, put all your callbacks in an ephemeron table, just iterate the table to see which are outstanding [20:49] eday: mjr_: yeah, works fine on my c++ echo server :) [20:49] mikeal: basically, pretend you have a big list of things to do [20:49] elliottcable: so it only exists to enumerate things which *haven’t* been GC’d? [20:49] mscdex: bradleymeck_: how would you tell v8 to remove the item from the array without using delete though? [20:49] elliottcable: this seems like an odd way of exposing the inner workings of the GC to the user. [20:49] mikeal: and you want to do them and then not have to delete them from the array once they are finished [20:49] elliottcable: shouldn’t GC be invisible? [20:50] eday: mjr_: python twisted and eventlet show the same behavior as node though [20:50] mikeal: because you may not be the only person who cares about them, but once nobody cares it gets GC'd [20:50] bradleymeck_: im not using an array to back it because it is not possible [20:50] eday: mjr_: I've not tackled those yet [20:50] confoocious has joined the channel [20:50] mjr_: eday: is your C++ one using blocking IO calls? [20:50] mikeal: it's a narrow use case [20:50] mikeal: and kind of hard to understand [20:50] bradleymeck_: elliottcable it is invisible on the JS side [20:50] mikeal: but i believe it actually exists [20:51] elliottcable: bradleymeck_ 3» ah, so you can’t enumerate these things from JS, only from C++? [20:51] JimBastard: FransWillem: i fail to see how this is better then sintra type routing [20:51] mikeal: someone actually asked about a use case in this channel a few months ago and me and isaacs heads almost exploded because he actually needed an ephemeron table but didn't know what one was [20:51] bradleymeck_: you can enumerate them, but they mem manage themselves [20:51] JimBastard: FransWillem: but im impressed at your follow through and docs, espically for a few hours of work [20:52] mikeal: it's actually not hard to implement [20:52] bradleymeck_: i was asking too since i needed one to see when my DOM impl's Nodes go outta memory to free up some values on them [20:52] mikeal: and doesn't require a reverse incompatible break in the language either [20:52] mikeal: unlike most of Harmony right now [20:52] mikeal: i hate almost every spec on that wiki [20:52] mikeal: let +++ [20:52] eday: mjr_: nope, it's all non-blocking, using libevent. Handling this case requires some extra work around the full-duplex handling, just curious if node does that [20:52] bradleymeck_: proxies, ephemerons, and collectors that all i wanted in js [20:52] bradleymeck_: and i made em [20:52] mikeal: i don't want proxies [20:52] bradleymeck_: mikeal i want em for readonly view [20:52] bmizerany has joined the channel [20:53] bradleymeck_: other than that, not too many use cases [20:53] mikeal: can't you do the same thing funcitonally using a get call that reads from a closure [20:53] mikeal: it wouldn't be all objecty, but it would be functionally the same [20:54] mikeal: ephemeron table i'm pretty much for, because it's impossible to achieve functionally any other way and it's just a new object in the global namespace and isn't new syntax or something that is going to break compatibility [20:54] bradleymeck_: i guess, but when im trying to implement premade specs i often would break them by introducing get functions [20:54] mjr_: eday: how do you know that the write succeeded in the one that works? [20:54] FransWillem: JimBastard: The big upside of this over sinatra is the last part of the readme, simple nesting of multiple apps. [20:54] mikeal: i *hate* the modules proposal [20:54] bradleymeck_: agreed [20:54] khug has joined the channel [20:54] mikeal: 5 new pieces of syntax….. really! [20:55] bradleymeck_: i hate require not having any async version. I hate const soo much it hurts [20:55] mikeal: and it doesn't actually achieve half of what commonjs modules do in terms of sperating concerns [20:55] mikeal: it also creeped back in what are essentially namespaces [20:55] mikeal: const should die in a fire [20:55] mikeal: along with the shorter function syntax [20:55] mikeal: alex russell just loves to bitch about typing function too much [20:56] SvenDowideit has joined the channel [20:56] bradleymeck_: but its 8 chars of typing! my hands aaaaaaah, *lights self on fire* [20:56] mikeal: hahaha [20:56] bradleymeck_: lambda is only 6! [20:56] JimBastard: FransWillem: yeah, i dunno. if you have a need for this then, huzaah! i would float it on the mailing list to get better feedback [20:56] elliottcable: modules sucks so much [20:56] elliottcable: wait, what? [20:56] elliottcable: which modules proposal? [20:56] mikeal: ECMA Harmony [20:57] ashleydev_ has joined the channel [20:57] eday: mjr_: you need to treat the read/write ends of the socket independently. Some clients will send an EOF on the read end, but still accept data on the write end to flush [20:57] elliottcable: mikeal 3» who’s Alex Russel? Also, I just use a preprocessor to turn ->{} into function(){} [20:57] mikeal: founder of dojo [20:57] mikeal: he's really vocal on this proposal and pretty much nothing else [20:58] mikeal: YES! [20:58] elliottcable: ECMA Harmony? What? [20:58] _announcer: Twitter: "Best presentation so far at #mongoseattle by @ggodale; #mongodb and #nodejs http://yfrog.com/9eb1lmj" -- Gastown Labs. http://twitter.com/gastownlabs/status/19685585650 [20:58] mikeal: Firefox 4 Beta 2 rockes, IndexedDatabase support landed [20:58] mikeal: my in Browser CouchDB passes all test! [20:58] mikeal: http://github.com/mikeal/idbcouch [20:59] mjr_: mikeal: that's cool, so an all-js couchdb? [20:59] mikeal: yup [20:59] JimBastard: yo dog, its couchdb. if you fuck with other databases, it gonna hurt when you pee, catch a nosql STD. [20:59] mikeal: the document store if fully implemented [20:59] ashleydev_ has joined the channel [20:59] _announcer: Twitter: "I need a lib of #mysql for #nodejs!!" -- Matias Gonzalez. http://twitter.com/matijg/status/19685658875 [20:59] mikeal: hahah [20:59] mikeal: i need to get it replicating [20:59] mikeal: and then tackle views [20:59] elliottcable: lol @ _announcer [20:59] elliottcable: I just unignored it [20:59] mikeal: there are some pending issues in the spec with implementing all the views tho [20:59] elliottcable: this is what y’all’ve been listening to all this time? [21:00] JimBastard: elliottcable: and your stupid ass [21:00] JimBastard: oops [21:00] mikeal: like they didn't specify the collation algorithm, so there is no telling how it'll sort [21:00] JimBastard: that was suppose to be a pm to someone else sorry [21:00] tyfighter has joined the channel [21:00] JimBastard: ;-) [21:00] elliottcable: JimBastard 3» D:< [21:00] _announcer: Twitter: "Looks like node.js programmers love to troll on web development blogs. That's why it's gonna be one of my favorite frameworks." -- Jack. http://twitter.com/RazorJack/status/19685725357 [21:00] mscdex: dem's fitin' words [21:00] JimBastard: my bad, i wouldnt ever want to insult someone on irc for no reason [21:00] elliottcable: wtf? [21:00] mikeal: who is trolling someones blog? [21:01] elliottcable: mikeal 3» ditto [21:01] mape: mikeal: its the internets, I assume everywhere [21:01] mikeal: haha [21:01] elliottcable: Also, you know, a lot more of the conversation in here makes more sense without _announcer on /ignore :x [21:01] mape: mikeal: did you see http://nodejs.se/ ? [21:01] mjr_: eday: what does node do differently than your C++ version then? [21:01] mikeal: we need to stop attracting Rails people [21:01] mscdex: !tweet @RazorJack wasshu talkin' 'bout willis? [21:01] mikeal: :) [21:01] mape: feel free to tweet something luvly to fill it up [21:01] blackbrrr has joined the channel [21:01] mikeal: not yet [21:01] mikeal: cool [21:02] elliottcable: argh [21:02] elliottcable: you people are distracting [21:02] elliottcable: ACTION tries to get back to his code [21:02] mikeal: i still have like 30 slides to write [21:02] mape: couch meetup? [21:02] bradleymeck_: 20s of code 3s o f irc [21:02] elliottcable: Hm. By “get back to his code” I apparently meant “move this Terminal to the Space on which I was previously working, so I can be distracted ALL THE TIME.” [21:02] blackbrrr has left the channel [21:03] eday: mjr_: i've not dug into node internals, but just need to ensure data is drained when a EOF is received on the read end. I thought that is what my last paste was doing, but I guess not [21:03] mikeal: mape: yes [21:03] mikeal: there is a meetup tonight, but tomorrow i have a talk [21:04] mikeal: at the NYC NoSQL meetup [21:04] mikeal: tonight is the couchdb drinkup tho [21:04] mape: nice [21:05] hij1nx has joined the channel [21:06] _announcer: Twitter: "Updated part three in the control-flow series on howtonode.org. http://bit.ly/9W8Kiq #nodejs" -- Tim Caswell. http://twitter.com/creationix/status/19686043510 [21:06] creationix: mape: wohoo, it worked! [21:06] mape: :( [21:06] mape: means I have to fix something :P [21:06] creationix: :P [21:07] bradleymeck_: ewww the c++ map im using has almost 50% wasted memory due to overhead + empty buckets [21:07] admc has joined the channel [21:10] zomgbie_ has joined the channel [21:10] zomgbie has joined the channel [21:11] tpryme has joined the channel [21:11] _announcer: Twitter: "http://howtonode.org/ Node.js descriptions (the domain would have thought of that directive?:) very good examples teletuzdelve." [hu] -- István Demeter. http://twitter.com/qw3r/status/19686357655 [21:12] bradleymeck_ has left the channel [21:15] MrTopf has joined the channel [21:15] mscdex: so is there any way to say, do "reverse connect middleware" where connect is the one supplied with a callback with request and response objects? [21:15] mscdex: er [21:15] mscdex: s/supplied with/that supplies [21:16] aheckmann has joined the channel [21:19] zomgbie has joined the channel [21:20] zomgbie_ has joined the channel [21:22] _announcer: Twitter: "@jkreeftmeijer your Node.js page is #awesome. have you thought about doing any games with a purpose (GWAP) stuff with it?" -- Shaun Lawson. http://twitter.com/shaunlawson/status/19686965528 [21:22] cardona507 has joined the channel [21:23] _announcer: Twitter: "Poking at node.js. I'm really starting to love Javascript." -- Chris Heald. http://twitter.com/cheald/status/19687014709 [21:24] khug has joined the channel [21:25] tjholowaychuk_ has joined the channel [21:26] shockie has joined the channel [21:27] zomgbie_ has joined the channel [21:27] _announcer: Twitter: "RT good choice @mwessendorf: Hello #node.js" -- Stefan Tilkov. http://twitter.com/stilkov/status/19687260894 [21:28] _announcer: Twitter: "@ Joshfraser - Rawk. JS as in Node.js?" [de] -- Sean Gaffney. http://twitter.com/seangaffney/status/19687314864 [21:30] sveimac has joined the channel [21:31] jelveh has joined the channel [21:32] teemow has joined the channel [21:34] kuya: bah [21:35] tjholowaychuk_: loves reverting an hour of work lol [21:35] tjholowaychuk_: YEeeee [21:35] creationix: just an hour, you're doing good [21:35] bradleymeck_ has joined the channel [21:36] zomgbie has joined the channel [21:36] tjholowaychuk_: ohhh well. I had higher hopes for that api [21:36] bradleymeck_: tj ephs are up on node-overload's head [21:36] tjholowaychuk_: bradleymeck_: yay! link? [21:37] FransWillem: Hmm, did anyone ever set out to create often used data structures in JavaScript? e.g. Maps (for non-stringy types), Sets, PriorityQueues, etc [21:37] bradleymeck_: http://github.com/bmeck/node-overload , need to learn more about allocator in c++ cause it degrades after around 20000 items in the table [21:37] eisd|away has left the channel [21:38] bradleymeck_: frans most of those are just how we use arrays [21:38] tjholowaychuk_: bradleymeck_: cool man ill check it out in a bit [21:38] devinus: i'm pretty much a CS noob, are there any systems that take advantage of both non blocking, async programming and threading? [21:38] devinus: oops wrong channel [21:39] bradleymeck_: coroutines kinda? but thats not threading. idk why you would thread up async. [21:39] FransWillem: bradleymeck_: Well, you can't simply to PriorityQueues in arrays, and for non-trivial keys you can't really do a map or set either :/ [21:39] _announcer: Twitter: "Playing with #nodejs for the @wasitup http client. It's blazingly fast, doing 1000 req in 4 sec (using the 1k fastest sites of alexa top10k)" -- Eivind Uggedal. http://twitter.com/uggedal/status/19687939404 [21:39] pgriess has joined the channel [21:40] kuya: yay i got connect and grappler to play [21:40] bradleymeck_: frans, indexOf for now on arrays is the way to go, been fighting for value based maps for a while [21:40] bradleymeck_: for priority queues, you can use arrays, but it needs some encapsulation on the values [21:41] zomgbie has joined the channel [21:41] bradleymeck_: i guess my eph tables could be used as reference maps though, wouldnt recommend it though [21:42] _announcer: Twitter: "@leopd +1 for node.js. absolutely loving it." -- ummonai. http://twitter.com/ummonai/status/19688103379 [21:42] martoche has joined the channel [21:43] Blackguard has joined the channel [21:43] zomgbie_ has joined the channel [21:44] chrischris has joined the channel [21:44] _announcer: Twitter: "Self promotion: my node.js-based SproutCore build tools work great and fast. People are using it. http://github.com/martoche/garcon" -- Martin Ottenwaelter. http://twitter.com/martoche/status/19688226483 [21:44] cardona507 has joined the channel [21:45] _announcer: Twitter: "i know it's sacrilege to even think it but node.js could really use a sync http hook for initialization" -- Dean Landolt. http://twitter.com/deanlandolt/status/19688267012 [21:45] JimBastard has joined the channel [21:45] JimBastard: http://gist.github.com/492933 [21:45] ryah: irc.nodejs.org #web [21:45] JimBastard: <3 unsolicited job offers [21:45] sammcd has left the channel [21:45] ryah: http://nodejs.org:10001/ [21:46] martoche: where can I get an _announcer to put in the #sproutcore channel? [21:46] bradleymeck_: maushu~ [21:46] JimBastard: martoche: maushu aye [21:46] JimBastard: has he opened sourced that yet? [21:46] bradleymeck_: yes [21:46] maushu: wut [21:46] bradleymeck_: where be the announcer src [21:46] maushu: Who summoned me and where is the virgin sacrifices? [21:46] ryah: hm [21:46] creationix: JimBastard: what's OOP? I keep hearing this term ;) [21:47] ryah: no one is coming on my irc server.. [21:47] ryah: irc.nodejs.org #web <-- [21:47] bradleymeck_: oh, i was trying to go there in browser [21:47] maushu: http://graphnode.com/stuff/ircbot.js [21:47] FransWillem: ryah: Can't connect :/ [21:47] ryah: hm [21:47] ryah: i only tested iwth irssi [21:47] maushu: I think the source is updated, feel free to make it pretty and send it back to me. [21:47] FransWillem: ryah: pinging works [21:47] deepthawtz: NETSPLIT [21:47] FransWillem: ryah: But mIRC refuses :/ [21:48] martoche: maushu: thanks! [21:48] bradleymeck_: colloquy accepts [21:48] FransWillem: ryah: telnet works though [21:48] _announcer: Twitter: "#node.js -- new blogpost up http://airodig.com/2010/07/27/node-js-non-blocking-evented-serverside-javascript/" -- ian eyberg. http://twitter.com/feydr/status/19688472593 [21:48] deepthawtz: linkinius likes it [21:49] FransWillem: ryah: Hmm, maybe it's related to the fact that irc.nodejs.org stays completely silent when you connect, whereas for example efnet sends you NOTICEs upon connecting ? [21:49] rauchg_ has joined the channel [21:49] jamesduncan has joined the channel [21:50] FransWillem: ryah: I want to join too :( [21:50] maushu: ryah, did you just make a irc server in javascript? [21:50] ryah: well, fixed the one i made in november [21:50] FransWillem: ACTION feels ignored [21:51] JimBastard: FransWillem: dude, relax [21:51] ryah: FransWillem: sorry... [21:51] maushu: Ok people, pack your bags. We are moving out. [21:51] sveimac: lol [21:51] maushu: Ladies and children first. [21:51] JimBastard: errrr [21:52] JimBastard: umm [21:52] JimBastard: is there a real plan to migrate to not freenode? [21:52] JimBastard: ACTION doesn't approve [21:52] bradleymeck_: no [21:52] bradleymeck_: i think its just a test [21:52] cardona507_ has joined the channel [21:53] JimBastard: it would be a mistake to split up the irc traffic to two servers right now. im assuming its a test, but i thought id be capt obvious for a minute [21:53] JimBastard: :p [21:53] maushu: JimBastard, freenode with its fascist policies or a node.js irc server... hmmmmm. [21:53] bradleymeck_: idk w/ all the netsplits lately are we on 2 servers? [21:54] JimBastard: maushu: have we had any issues here yet? [21:54] JimBastard: maushu: i dislike freenode, its just a logistical thing [21:55] maushu: I know. [21:55] _announcer: Twitter: "Will blog about little meryl http://github.com/coffeemate/meryl . Hardly find time to play with, damn it. #nodejs #meryl" -- Kadir Pekel. http://twitter.com/kadirpekel/status/19688893504 [21:56] _announcer: Twitter: "Awesome, just got my @heroku NodeJS instance! Do I play Starcraft II or NodeJS tonight?" -- brianegan. http://twitter.com/brianegan/status/19688922925 [21:56] maushu: ryah, some ideas: split the net socket and program logic into seperate processes (or something) so that you can change the server logic *while the users are connected*. [21:56] amerine has joined the channel [21:56] maushu: Another: Give a public interface (limited with permissions) so that announcer and other stuff can be connected directly to the server instead of being a user. [21:57] freshtonic has joined the channel [21:57] JimBastard: hey ryah i cant log into irc.nodejs.org [21:57] JimBastard: ryah: using mibbit.com [21:57] JimBastard: is there a special port? [21:57] _announcer: Twitter: "Perhaps i am too old but i just dont see the usefulness of node.js and all of its children like Geddy or Express. ServeSide JS? Come on..." -- Marc Logemann. http://twitter.com/logemann/status/19689008375 [21:58] tjholowaychuk_: takes the time to complain about it [21:58] JimBastard: !tweet @logemann we'll i'm glad you read one short blog article in passing, but if you'd like an in-depth answer...#node.js on freenode [21:58] maushu: JimBastard, it works with xchat. Maybe ryah didn't implement that weird mibbit protocol. [21:58] bradleymeck_: !tweet @logermann mostly its a change in design scheme, both client and server in same scripting language, callbacks instead of blocking a thread [21:58] JimBastard: tjholowaychuk_: ^^ [21:58] JimBastard: man, our goon squad pwnts [21:59] bradleymeck_: ACTION high fives jim [21:59] JimBastard: bradleymeck_: you mispelled though [21:59] bradleymeck_: pfff [21:59] maushu: He also didn't implement the download channel list. [21:59] maushu: Where the heck are you, guys. [21:59] JimBastard: maushu: i tried to join from mibbit [22:03] bradleymeck_: mmm what c++ guru wants to explain to me why std::map has a terrible memory footprint [22:03] JimBastard: bradleymeck_: 42? [22:04] bradleymeck_: indeed [22:04] JimBastard: :p [22:04] _announcer: Twitter: "It finally happened, Ryan made a #nodejs powered IRC server http://github.com/ry/web_ircd" -- Tim Caswell. http://twitter.com/creationix/status/19689411918 [22:04] SubStack: o_O [22:04] _announcer: Twitter: "@cheald If nothing else, node.js has gotten me interested in Ruby's EventMachine. When it fails me, I'll check out node.js more." -- Brent Rowland. http://twitter.com/brentrowland/status/19689421421 [22:05] FransWillem: bradleymeck_: How much data are you storing in it ? [22:05] JimBastard: !tweet @brentrowland you should skip the first step and get on the node.js choppa! [22:05] bradleymeck_: 50k pointer pairs [22:05] tjholowaychuk_: blehhh riak client is brutally slow for some reason [22:05] satori_ has joined the channel [22:06] FransWillem: bradleymeck_: And how much overhead are you seeing ? [22:07] bradleymeck_: looks to be around 25~ bytes of overhead per pair (kinda rough since cant tell what is v8s and whats mine) [22:07] FransWillem: I'm not sure how exactly it's implemented, but if it'd be using something like a binary tree, each entry would need two extra points (left and right child), and as such your memory usage could be 50k*4*(pointer size) instead of 50k*2*(pointer size) as you'd probably expected... [22:08] FransWillem: So 25bytes per pair isn't too much :/ [22:08] FransWillem: err, s/So // [22:08] bradleymeck_: mmm, still i wish i could make it less, its emulating a bucketted hashmap right now :/ [22:08] bvleur has joined the channel [22:08] FransWillem: I mean 8 bytes for the actual data to be stored, 8 bytes for left and right child pointers, 8 bytes for previous and next (for iterators), doesn't look too bad [22:09] logemann has joined the channel [22:09] bradleymeck_: yea, guess so [22:09] ryah: FransWillem: if you're interested in fixing the ircd for mirc, i'd love the to take the patch http://github.com/ry/web_ircd [22:09] FransWillem: ryah: Looking into it now, but I can't find out why mIRC won't send the USER and NICK commands :S [22:09] logemann: who is JimBastard ? :-) Or do you have a robot replying on tweet about node.js ? [22:10] bradleymeck_: we can tweet from here [22:10] bradleymeck_: jimbastard is jimbastard? [22:10] FransWillem: bradleymeck_: I think the best you could do (memory footprint wise) would be a simple sorted-array based implementation, using insertion-sort for insertion (O(n)), and binary-search for looking up (O(log n)) [22:10] logemann: got this: "@logemann we'll i'm glad you read one short blog article in passing, but if you'd like an in-depth answer...#node.js on fre".. --JimBastard [22:10] bradleymeck_: !tweet @logermann yub [22:10] bradleymeck_: !tweet @logemann yub... [22:11] JimBastard: hey logemann [22:11] creationix: bradleymeck_: I think I need to stop following the bot [22:11] logemann: hey [22:11] JimBastard: im a bot [22:11] bradleymeck_: probably [22:11] logemann: not realy [22:11] JimBastard: logemann: so you read the infoq article? [22:11] logemann: where do you know? [22:11] JimBastard: logemann im a bot [22:11] JimBastard: ACTION is unstoppable [22:12] JimBastard: logemann are you on github? [22:12] creationix: logemann: http://nodejs.debuggable.com/2010-07-27.txt [22:12] creationix: logemann: look for _announcer [22:12] JimBastard: logemann: http://wiki.github.com/ry/node/modules [22:12] JimBastard: logemann: http://github.com/marak [22:12] JimBastard: logemann: http://github.com/creationix [22:12] JimBastard: logemann: http://github.com/cloudhead [22:12] logemann: found it... this is really kind of freaky here :-) Feels like 1984 [22:12] logemann: the book [22:12] JimBastard: logemann: http://github.com/visionmedia [22:12] FransWillem: bradleymeck_: Just give a shout if you need any help on that, done that stuff before :p [22:13] JimBastard: ACTION summons developers [22:13] bradleymeck_: looking at your suggestions and wondering [22:13] bradleymeck_: logemann you make it public, we just talk [22:13] maushu: ryah, liveedit? [22:14] bradleymeck_: i fear liveedit + c++ modules [22:14] logemann: so you are grepping twitter for node.js comments? [22:14] _announcer: Twitter: "@acedtect Speaking of mouse tracking: http://jeffkreeftmeijer.com/2010/experimenting-with-node-js/" -- Chris. http://twitter.com/cptcomic/status/19690013841 [22:14] hassox has joined the channel [22:15] logemann: i just dont see the greater value in coding JS on serverSide. Perhaps its because as a 10+ years java developer, i really dont like coding JS too much. I hardly accept it on client side ;-) [22:17] tekky: logemann: on the flip side many JS people dont really accept Java anywhere either :P [22:17] chilts: logemann: yep, I was just about to say what tekky said :) [22:17] logemann: yeah. Thats the nice thing about choice [22:17] chilts: it's all about perspective [22:17] damienkatz has joined the channel [22:17] chilts: and whether you want to learn something new :D [22:17] FransWillem: ryah: It's really weird, even when just proxying IRC data from EFNet, mIRC refuses to send USER/NICK commands :S [22:18] logemann: like i said. I know JS a bit. But untyped languages are always a pain for Java/C++ folks [22:19] FransWillem: logemann: I feel quite the contrary, at work I use C++ (and ASM) almost exclusively, used Haskell in uni, and Javascript still feels wonderful to work with :) [22:19] logemann: But i am not that negative about node.js itself... its more when people try to build a web framework on top of it [22:19] bridge has joined the channel [22:20] SubStack: I like type inference in the sense that it's like getting unit tests for free [22:22] bradleymeck_: i actually love asm, but its just hard to make good stuff in w/o tons and tons of time [22:22] _announcer: Twitter: "Just updated my article on haml-js for latest #node.js http://localhost:3000/haml-for-javascript" -- Tim Caswell. http://twitter.com/creationix/status/19690532864 [22:23] logemann: coding a http server in just 5 lines is quite impressive i must admit. [22:23] jamesduncan_ has joined the channel [22:23] tjholowaychuk_: paste fail! [22:23] bradleymeck_: localhost! [22:23] creationix: logemann: heh, I write web frameworks on top node.js for a living [22:24] bradleymeck_: logemann well if there is any suggestions to us, let us know [22:24] mde: I'm writing one -- given all the frameworks in Ruby and Python, JS isn't really a stretch. [22:24] kriskowal has joined the channel [22:25] creationix: logemann: we have a GWT guy here at my work, and he's constantly ragging on us JS developers for not having strict typing [22:26] logemann: Its more than only the typing issue..... [22:26] logemann: gimme a sec [22:27] logemann: OO capabilites are not that good.... library support is not on par with java,.... [22:28] mjr_: ryah: did you ever finish the set process title sorcery? I thought you had, but I don't see it in the source anywhere. [22:28] logemann: dont know how it will perform.... [22:28] bradleymeck_: OO capabilities? only issue i see is lack of interfaces ontop of the prototypechain, (damn you ecma ppl). library support is just time i hope [22:29] mjr_: I quite like prototypal inheritance compared to big OO class structures. [22:29] logemann: I used OO only in conjunction with prototype.js and it really feels ... hmmm.... weird [22:29] bradleymeck_: ewwww F prototype.js [22:30] bradleymeck_: js is not meant to have classes [22:30] FransWillem: ryah: see pm [22:31] logemann: and i really have performance doubts... no JIT, no compiler optimisations... [22:31] bradleymeck_: logemann it has a JIT ia32 assembler in v8 [22:31] mjr_: logemann: JavaScript somehow became more useful on the client side than Java did. I think the same thing will happen on the server side. [22:32] logemann: definitely not [22:32] logemann: @mjr [22:32] mjr_: Well, who can say. [22:32] bradleymeck_: i think the brutal part for perf may be the type coersions [22:32] mjr_: But there's an arms race right now to make the fastest JavaScript runtime. [22:32] logemann: me ;-) JS wont make it into the enterprise server market... believe me [22:32] mde: logemann: Right, they said exactly the same thing about Ruby. :) [22:32] pkrumins has joined the channel [22:32] rauchg_: based on what ? [22:32] ryah: mjr_: no [22:33] ryah: got stuck on osx [22:33] mjr_: ahh shit [22:33] mjr_: Always with the OSX [22:33] mjr_: logemann: just like enterprise software will never accept ruby, oh wait, I guess they're past that one finally. [22:33] logemann: mde+rauch: i am working for many diferent big clients and believe me... server side is really java land [22:33] logemann: ruby isnt there either. [22:34] tpryme: creationix: Has the meetup date been settled on? [22:34] mde: logemann: Right, but it's very much in the process of happening. [22:34] _announcer: Twitter: "alex payne (@al3x) on node.js, scaling and performance http://al3x.net/2010/07/27/node.html" -- Thomas Schranz. http://twitter.com/__tosh/status/19691225899 [22:34] mjr_: These are clearly the early days of server side JavaScript. [22:34] creationix: tpryme: not yet, it's the 10, 11, or 12th [22:34] mde: A lot of very enterprisey people are using Rails. It's turning into The Man. [22:34] mjr_: It is nowhere near "done" yet. [22:34] logemann: ruby has some momentum for all those web startups.... but it never appeared at Siemens, Telekom, AT&T or the likes [22:34] bradleymeck_: logemann on big companies i think they will stick with java for a long long time, but for startups other tech is often useful [22:35] logemann: as i said.... yes [22:35] bradleymeck_: i concur ;P [22:35] tpryme: creationix: What's going to determine the final date? Anything we're waiting on? [22:35] mde: Give it time, that's all I'm saying. It's pretty inevitable. I remember when Java was considered too slow. [22:35] mjr_: Big companies will keep on doing whatever shitty thing they've been doing for a long time until someone forces them to do something else. [22:35] _announcer: Twitter: "This article by @al3x on Node.js and scalability is one of the best written, level-headed, and practical ones I've read http://bit.ly/9lrDtS" -- Kyle Simpson. http://twitter.com/getify/status/19691313484 [22:35] logemann: And let us be honest. Without Rails, Ruby would be non-existant [22:36] mde: logemann: That is totally true, right on. [22:36] rauchg_: i disagree [22:36] mde: But it is a juggernaut. [22:36] logemann: mjr: be aware, Java is big when it comes to messaging.... nothing beat java there [22:36] rauchg_: it's not causal, it's a consequence [22:36] rauchg_: ruby is a great, expressive language [22:36] rauchg_: if it hadn't been "rails" it would have been something else [22:36] rauchg_: and that's why there're so many great frameworks for ruby [22:36] tjholowaychuk_: ruby has some great qualities [22:37] SubStack: java? messaging? [22:37] tjholowaychuk_: and some not so great ones [22:37] SubStack: what the shit [22:37] logemann: Without Rails it would be in the area of Python. Irrelevant [22:37] bradleymeck_: java can serialize anything im convinced [22:37] tjholowaychuk_: but I agree with guillermo [22:37] _announcer: Twitter: "Excellent, well-reasoned, appreciative but critical post by @al3x on Node.js, its concurrency model, and its suitability: http://j.mp/avDVTC" -- C. Scott Andreas. http://twitter.com/cscotta/status/19691403991 [22:37] JimBastard has joined the channel [22:37] JimBastard: yeaaah finally im at home, where i get to code SSJS with no pants on [22:37] mjr_: logemann: my point is that just because there's "big company" support for something doesn't make it useful or interesting to work on. Before there was Java, there was some other thing and Java was the new hotness. [22:37] creationix: tpryme: not really waiting on anything, just was giving people time to respond [22:38] creationix: tpryme: I guess I can bump the discussion on the mailing list [22:38] logemann: mjr: thats true. And i admit that inovation is not the best side of java.... [22:38] JimBastard: nice logemann is still here [22:38] JimBastard: and hes a java developer? [22:38] tpryme: creationix: Gotcha. Where do we do that? On the mailing list post? Or another site? [22:38] mjr_: JimBastard: I assume he's here as karmic troll retribution. [22:38] creationix: tpryme: I'll send to the mailing list [22:38] creationix: sometime we should start a bar-area nodejs users group [22:38] JimBastard: mjr_: i give him props, he talked smack, but then came here for more info. thats +10 in my book [22:38] creationix: so as to not spam the node list [22:38] logemann: Just for the record. I am coding a long time. I ve done through many langs.... Pascal, Cobol, PHP and finally Java. [22:39] bradleymeck_: if java had some features and wasnt stack based, i would hump its leg, but alas, dynamic types and closures are not there [22:39] _announcer: Twitter: "phew! looks like someone has beaten me to compiling #erlang on to #nodejs" -- hellomatty. http://twitter.com/hellomatty/status/19691523022 [22:39] _announcer: Twitter: "nice piece by @al3x on pros+cons of nodejs, and differences between scaling problems we all see and ones only a few do. http://bit.ly/ctfaRu" -- Mark Ng. http://twitter.com/markng/status/19691527810 [22:39] JimBastard: logemann: one of the things that appeals to me the most....is that javascript will run on every single machine on the internet (almost) in the browser [22:39] JimBastard: can Java do that? [22:39] SubStack: logemann: none of those are functionl languages [22:39] logemann: Jim: No ;-) [22:39] JimBastard: (if you say applet ill segfault) [22:39] JimBastard: :p [22:39] bradleymeck_: i will say applet [22:39] mjr_: ACTION throws JimBastard a null pointer exception [22:39] JimBastard: ACTION segfaults [22:39] logemann: applet was the first thing since Vietnam [22:39] JimBastard: ACTION double segfaults [22:40] SubStack: pascal, cobol, php, and java are all just different takes on the same approach to programming [22:40] logemann: first = worst [22:40] bradleymeck_: but just dont touch the DOM from the applet [22:40] logemann: i meant worst ;-) [22:40] JimBastard: logemann: i think if you are coming from a strong programming background you'll really appreciate some of the things you can do in node [22:40] JimBastard: very easily [22:40] bradleymeck_: i do wish i could force types sometimes though [22:40] logemann: Jim: as i said. Hooking up a http server for some type of prototyping seems great [22:41] logemann: with node [22:41] JimBastard: logemann: what about a tcp server? [22:41] mjr_: Given that node is brand new and the Java infrastructure is many years old, it's kind of hard to compare. [22:41] logemann: Jim: exactly that kind of thing. But for production i ve done some TCP servers in java [22:41] JimBastard: of course [22:41] JimBastard: something to remember is java is very old, node is very young (not even 1.0 yet) [22:41] SubStack: mjr_: javascript is almost as old though [22:42] mjr_: SubStack: sure, but the infrastructure of JS is all browser-oriented. [22:42] JimBastard: also, the JVM is kinda a beast. every single java based project ive worked on has been a clusterfuck [22:42] JimBastard: of XML and long spin up times [22:42] logemann: For instance: if i need a server that sends me back some json for some defined URLs just for hacking my Android app, this would be a nice use case [22:42] JimBastard: the best java experience i had was cold fusion [22:43] logemann: (cold fusion?) was that on top of a VM ? [22:43] logemann: JVM? [22:43] mjr_: Eventually Sencha will turn into the BEA of the JavaScript world. [22:43] JimBastard: logemann: yeah man, coldfusion is a tag based markup language that is a J2EE app [22:43] JimBastard: owned by Adobe [22:44] JimBastard: raw java is ughhhhhh [22:44] tjholowaychuk_: mjr_: BEA? [22:44] logemann: i know CF but never checked it and didnt know that it was on top of J2EE [22:44] mjr_: Then enterprise types will feel better about it, and then everybody will be writing JS, and then hackers will start looking for something else. [22:44] JimBastard: mjr_: my money is on lua [22:44] JimBastard: but only 2 cents [22:44] mjr_: tjholowaychuk_: yeah, and then get bought by like Oracle or whatever. [22:44] logemann: i have found another reason against JS .... i hate the debuggers ;-) [22:44] JimBastard: logemann: client side? [22:45] logemann: yes [22:45] JimBastard: logemann: <3 firebug\ [22:45] JimBastard: ?!?!?! [22:45] Dmitry has joined the channel [22:45] JimBastard: whats wrong with firebug [22:45] logemann: firebug is not as nice as my IDE [22:45] tjgillies: is there an event based timer or do we just use setTimeout? [22:45] JimBastard: i code entire applications in that bitch [22:45] bradleymeck_: stack traces, local vars, break points? [22:45] bradleymeck_: tjgillies dont understand the q? [22:45] JimBastard: bradleymeck_: pft, real men dont need those [22:45] logemann: yeah functionally its ok but .... hmmm... perhaps i am just biased ;-) [22:45] JimBastard: tjgillies: what do you want to user a timer for? [22:45] Dmitry has joined the channel [22:45] SubStack: console.log() [22:45] SubStack: pow [22:45] JimBastard: logemann: its cool man, at least you are here trying to learn [22:46] JimBastard: :-) [22:46] tjgillies: bradleymeck_, every_5_minutes(doThis()); [22:46] bradleymeck_: habits let us do things to the best of our ability, wouldnt change unless there is compelling reason [22:46] bradleymeck_: setInterval() [22:46] logemann: I try to be open.... [22:46] JimBastard: tjgillies: you could use setInterval() [22:46] tjgillies: is that native javascript or nodejs? [22:46] JimBastard: tjgillies: JS [22:46] bradleymeck_: its in js [22:46] logemann: even its hard to throw away old cliches [22:46] tjgillies: oh, ive never used it before, thanks [22:46] JimBastard: tjgillies: http://eloquentjavascript.net/ in case you've never seen [22:46] bradleymeck_: one day i will change the way the world views eval [22:46] JimBastard: helps me a lot [22:47] tjgillies: JimBastard, thanks will check it out [22:47] ajpiano has joined the channel [22:48] logemann: guess what. I will try node.js for my current mini Android project. As i said, i still need a dummy server spitting some json at my Android phone. This seems easy enough to get it running in about a few hours [22:48] bradleymeck_: plenty of time [22:48] logemann: So that i can judge from personal experience [22:48] _announcer: Twitter: "@ggoodale talks node.js at #mongoseattle. Loads of of great info- most of it over my head at the moment :)" -- Richard Luck. http://twitter.com/aguywithanidea/status/19692113679 [22:48] FransWillem: logemann: What kind of android app :)? [22:48] tjgillies: i started porting all my ruby stuff to nodejs this week [22:48] logemann: Logistics track trace [22:48] EyePulp has joined the channel [22:49] logemann: nothing fancy ;-) [22:49] FransWillem: Ah, shame :) [22:49] ben_alman has joined the channel [22:50] FransWillem: logemann: But yeah, Node.js is ideal for quick network code prototyping, or even development :) [22:50] logemann: we are developing a logistics server side product and sell it in the german market. And i though an Android clint would be cool and good for marketing department ;-) [22:50] FransWillem: Wtf [22:50] logemann: Frans: yes. Thats what i thought when reading the docs (yeah i really done that) [22:50] FransWillem: three random people started following me or my first project on github [22:50] elliottcable: http://al3x.net/2010/07/27/node.html [22:50] elliottcable: DISCUSS. [22:53] bradleymeck_: he needs to pass file descriptors, break up his code to not be one big pile of spagetti, and i have no idea why he thinks those arent possible? [22:53] bradleymeck_: load balancing works just fine in node, we need to work on cluster computing, but that will be in a while [22:54] amerine_ has joined the channel [22:54] _announcer: Twitter: "Have to agree with @getify http://bit.ly/9lrDtS by @alex is a good and balanced article on node.js" -- Mark Boas. http://twitter.com/maboa/status/19692482340 [22:55] _announcer: Twitter: "Is Good Have to agree with @getify http://bit.ly/9lrDtS by @alex is a good and balanced article on node.js: Have ... http://bit.ly/cq0MA7" -- isgd. http://twitter.com/isgd/status/19692504041 [22:56] bradleymeck_: one of the beauties in a single threaded environment is that semaphores etc dont have to do as many synchro prechecks if built right [22:56] bradleymeck_: downside is you want small events [22:56] bradleymeck_: upside is small events allow better cluster environments [22:56] bradleymeck_: downside is we dont have those yet [22:58] logemann: well written blog anyway.... didnt checked the facts of course... ( dont even know the guy....). [22:58] _announcer: Twitter: "NodeJS and Scaling in the Large. Clear-headed analysis from @al3x http://al3x.net/2010/07/27/node.html" -- Ⓘⓢⓐⓐⓒ. http://twitter.com/izs/status/19692704667 [22:59] bradleymeck_: theory is theory, code is what burns the eyes [23:01] _announcer: Twitter: "Just read @al3x's post about NodeJS. Reasonable and sensible. I await the inevitable Digg/Reddit religious hysteria." -- Tom Morris. http://twitter.com/tommorris/status/19692877635 [23:02] mjr_: It seems like much of his objection is that node claims to provide an easy way to build scalable network programs. If we replace "scalable" with "high performance", it seems like he'd have fewer objections. [23:02] mjr_: IMO high performance is what node does really well, which can lead to scalability, but doing scalability right is hard, as he points out. [23:03] _announcer: Twitter: "OH: "I'm balls deep in callbacks" #node.js" -- Joni Rustulka. http://twitter.com/jahoni/status/19693062370 [23:04] _announcer: Twitter: "Scaling small vs scaling large. I make decisions based on this concept every day. http://bit.ly/9VholO #nodejs #scala #scalability" -- Scott Delap. http://twitter.com/scottdelap/status/19693107313 [23:04] ryah: mjr_: yeah [23:05] ryah: making IPC very simple to setup and get right, helps scaling [23:05] bradleymeck_: scalability will never be easy, we can just numb some of the pain [23:05] mape: ryah: btw what is the license on the node logo? [23:05] ryah: mape: none [23:05] bradleymeck_ has left the channel [23:05] ryah: obviously complex systems are complex [23:05] mjr_: ryah: maybe we should just change that phrase on the website from scalable to high performance. [23:05] mape: ryah: so not a good idea to use it on http://nodejs.se/ ? [23:06] ryah: mape: it's fine [23:06] mape: Great [23:06] ryah: mape: the logo will probbly change soon [23:06] mape: Yeah, just don't want to get sued ;) [23:06] ryah: ACTION rubs his hands together [23:06] ryah: muahah [23:06] ryah: yes, use the logo [23:06] SubStack: ACTION stole nodejs.org's background color for stackvm.com [23:06] SubStack: you can't stop me! [23:07] ryah: being able to do IPC correctly is very difficult [23:07] SubStack: fact [23:07] mjr_: I copied and pasted the letter 'n' from the web page. [23:07] khug has joined the channel [23:07] SubStack: ryah: dnode! \o/ [23:07] ryah: and it's a cornerstone of a scaling out a system [23:07] SubStack: makes ipc a little less terrible [23:07] SubStack: oh right I was fixing a bug [23:07] ryah: having everything be nonblocking - makes this rather difficult to get wrong [23:07] SubStack: ACTION does that [23:08] FransWillem: SubStack: I've always wondered how dnode and other IPC methods work with garbage collection. e.g. when do you know some out-of-process object is no longer needed and you can tell the other side to release the reference ? [23:08] ryah: one obvious thing that can still go wrong is buffering too much [23:08] _announcer: Twitter: "more on node.js http://al3x.net/2010/07/27/node.html. I might try node for writing a prototype TCP server. For this it seems a perfect fit" -- Marc Logemann. http://twitter.com/logemann/status/19693339761 [23:08] SubStack: FransWillem: v8 takes care of all of that [23:08] logemann: ups... thats me.... [23:08] ryah: but i think we're exposing and making simple the right building blocks [23:08] pnewhook has joined the channel [23:08] mjr_: I don't know what to make of his argument that you really want a system that can do both threaded or event style code. [23:09] ryah: ACTION is mum [23:09] FransWillem: SubStack: It does? How? I'm pretty sure there's no callback when an object is garbage collected, and as such there's no way to know when to tell the other side you no longer need it [23:09] mjr_: If indeed that is a real requirement, then if you build your system out of small parts, you can insert one where that makes sense. [23:09] JimBastard: i want to write quick and easy applications using javascript , can node do that [23:09] mjr_: JimBastard: no, sorry [23:09] JimBastard: would be nice if there was like built in http or tcp modules [23:09] SubStack: FransWillem: oh I see what you're getting at [23:09] JimBastard: maybe a filesystem? [23:09] JimBastard: fuck [23:09] JimBastard: ohh well, i guess ill go try haskell [23:10] SubStack: FransWillem: I haven't run into any problems with memory usage yet in practice if that helps [23:10] mjr_: like 8 people have emailed me that al3x post now. [23:10] FransWillem: SubStack: basically side A sends an object to side B, assigns some ID, keeps a map of ID->object, and sends B the ID, then B creates a stub object with that ID. When does B know the stub object is no longer used, so it can tell A to release that ID ? [23:11] FransWillem: SubStack: For functions that are only called once (e.g. the normal callback functions), I don't see a problem, unless they're never called because of some exception or something. It's marshalling long-lived objects, or functions that can be called several times, that would leak. [23:11] SubStack: FransWillem: in dnode's case I expose an 'end' event for cleanup stuff when the connection terminates [23:11] chrischris has joined the channel [23:11] SubStack: delete objects[clientId] [23:12] FransWillem: SubStack: Actually, I believe for something else I wrote in V8, I had a C++ system that would keep weak references to objects, and when only weak referenced, would call a callback function to indicate it would be released. Might be able to write something like that for Node, but it'd have to be a C++ module, not possible from JS. [23:12] PyroPeter has joined the channel [23:13] JimBastard: Node is a lovely bit of code with an enthusiastic community, a whip-smart maintainer, and a bright future. [23:13] JimBastard: hey they are talking about us! [23:13] jacoblyles has joined the channel [23:13] JimBastard: yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa [23:13] JimBastard: ^_^ [23:13] micheil: mjr_: do you want another copy of that al3x post? I'd be happy to oblige. [23:13] micheil: JimBastard: who said they were talking about you? [23:13] micheil: ;P [23:14] JimBastard: sheeet [23:14] JimBastard: no one talks more shit about node then me [23:14] JimBastard: ive been going nonstop for like 9 months now [23:15] mjr_: JimBastard is the enthusiastic community, ryah is whip-smart, but who is the bright future? [23:15] JimBastard: mjr_: everyone but me and ryah [23:15] JimBastard: lol [23:15] maushu: Me me me me! [23:15] JimBastard: okay its argeed on then [23:15] JimBastard: everyone else out [23:15] satori_: hehe [23:15] JimBastard: okay i gotta go finish some real code and stop circle jerking about how awesome we are [23:15] JimBastard: be back later [23:16] logemann: JimBastard is a damn smart bot [23:16] pnewhook: fuck that was annoying [23:17] maushu: Just as planned. [23:17] micheil: mjr_: well, I'd probably be the youngest, so.. :P [23:17] maushu: ACTION adjusts his Gendo glasses. [23:17] mjr_: maushu: sure, but are you the brightest? [23:17] SubStack: youngest eh? [23:17] micheil: 17. [23:18] maushu: mjr_, if my startup moves along I will be so bright like the freaking sun on earth. Hint: Everything burns. [23:18] SubStack: pretty young [23:18] tjholowaychuk_: micheil: your 17? [23:18] micheil: tjholowaychuk_: yes [23:18] SubStack: s/r\b/'re/ [23:18] tjholowaychuk_: haha [23:18] tjholowaychuk_: always gets me :p [23:19] tjholowaychuk_: english sucks [23:19] micheil: tjholowaychuk_: not really. [23:19] SubStack: fact [23:19] micheil: tjholowaychuk_: even by listening to the episodes of the changelog podcast I've been on, you probably wouldn't tell. [23:19] SubStack: compared to javascript, english sucks [23:19] tjholowaychuk_: micheil: cool though man good job, wish I got into "real" programming way younger [23:19] SubStack: english doesn't even have closures [23:19] SubStack: useless [23:19] tjholowaychuk_: yeah wtf.. [23:19] tjholowaychuk_: lame [23:19] micheil: I've been doing web work / freelance stuff for the past 3 years, but learning for the past 5 [23:21] maushu: I wonder when I started programming. [23:21] maushu: Let me do the math. [23:21] logemann: One thing Alex is certainly right is..... [23:21] maushu: ...11 years old? This can't be right. [23:21] logemann: eople in the Node community are having a good time reinventing the familiar wheels of web frameworks, package management, testing libraries, etc., and I don’t begrudge them that. Every programming community reinvents those things to their norms. [23:21] maushu: logemann, WE DO IT *BETTER*! [23:22] logemann: :-) [23:22] micheil: tjholowaychuk_: it is pretty awesome starting it young, because a) people think you're smart, and b) you can get awesomely discounted student tickets to conferences [23:22] SubStack: this much better: |------------| [23:22] satori_: well, with async coding, you kind of *have* to reinvent them. They rarely already exist. [23:22] SubStack: ACTION stretches his arms out accordingly [23:22] tjholowaychuk_: micheil: ya man! really wish I payed attention in highschool now though haha even in regards to math etc [23:22] micheil: SubStack: even better maybe like: |---------------------| [23:22] maushu: I see your stuff and show my pong: |o | [23:22] SubStack: micheil: you are exaggerating a little I think [23:22] mape: reinventing the wheel is such a strange phrase, apple reinvented the wheel with the iPhone and it got better since they had no luggage, that is good sometimes, but rewriting stuff without adding/changing stuff is a waste [23:23] maushu: | o | [23:23] mape: | o [23:23] micheil: tjholowaychuk_: ppfft. I suck at maths (remembering formulas) [23:23] satori_: ACTION wishes I remembered highscool maths [23:23] maushu: | | o [23:23] logemann: satori: dep. management has nothing to do with async. Its about reinventing something that other langs already have in their toolkit [23:23] SubStack: don't worry, we have computers to do maths now [23:23] maushu: I win mape. [23:23] tjholowaychuk_: micheil: did you do any schooling for web stuff? wish I did at the beginning [23:23] SubStack: but don't tell the mathematicians, they'll get all depressed [23:23] tjholowaychuk_: I learnt on dialup and no books haha [23:23] tjholowaychuk_: go self [23:23] mape: maushu: I wasen't playing with you, but sure ;) [23:23] micheil: tjholowaychuk_: no, I'm pretty much 100% self taught [23:23] tjholowaychuk_: poor learning skills back then [23:23] satori_: logemann: I was thinking more about testing libs. [23:23] logemann: ah ok [23:24] maushu: mape, excuses. I just totally rock at 1D pong. [23:24] satori_: My father is a mathamaticain, but I would rather have failed than asked him for help. [23:24] micheil: tjholowaychuk_: I learnt javascript first though almost; started with html&css, then learnt the real javascript. [23:25] tjholowaychuk_: micheil: lucky, I learnt php first, and got stuck in a bubble until I realized how terrible the language is [23:25] satori_: ewwww. I feel dirty just talking about PHP [23:25] tjholowaychuk_: me too lol [23:25] logemann: I just wonder how long this new universe needs to be on par with what java already has to offer in the framework space. It feels like PHP 10 years ago. Now they have some frameworks, some testing libs and some package management but they are still not in the same league as the java community [23:25] tjholowaychuk_: i missed out on some opportunities by not ditching it earlier, oh well though [23:26] micheil: tjholowaychuk_: yeah, the only official training I have is the course I did at uni last year (getting a distinction as well in that) [23:26] steadicat has joined the channel [23:26] mape: explode($satori_ ,'%') [23:26] satori_: Back to the learning thing.... What formal training did you get for programming? [23:26] micheil: I think we're all polyglots of languages [23:27] satori_: ACTION learned VB first. [23:27] maushu: satori_, formal... training? [23:27] maushu: What kind of madness is this. [23:27] satori_: hehe [23:27] micheil: THIS IS SPARTA!@ [23:27] tjholowaychuk_: ahaha [23:27] tjholowaychuk_: THIS IS SPARTA [23:27] _announcer: Twitter: "@al3x I absolutely agree that there is no silver bullet. I think you'll find that many of us in the node.js community are level headed." -- Tim Caswell. http://twitter.com/creationix/status/19694129372 [23:27] _announcer: Twitter: "@al3x on NodeJS tl;dr - cool proj; good for small scaling, maybe not for larger; scaling is hard. http://bit.ly/ahNtHr" -- Judd Vinet. http://twitter.com/juddv/status/19694152446 [23:27] tjholowaychuk_: techno viking ! [23:28] creationix: heh, I started programming at about age 8 [23:28] creationix: now I'm almost 30 [23:28] satori_: I learned VB in another job many moons ago, to make that job easier. (I was an audio engineer for a radio station). I realized really quickly that I was good at it, and could make more money doing programming, [23:28] micheil: anyway, I'm off. bbl. [23:28] logemann: what a lame reason for programming ..... money ... :-) [23:28] adrienf: satori_: is writing a compiler in a programming class "formal training" for you ? [23:29] micheil: logemann: I learnt for the fun of it :D [23:29] satori_: Well, the fun part goes without saying [23:29] micheil: money's just a bonus, but a required on at that. [23:29] satori_: I learn't to be an audio eng. the same way. [23:29] _announcer: Twitter: "Good times in # node.js Wed freenode: http://drp.ly/1ri11d" [no] -- Micheil Smith. http://twitter.com/miksago/status/19694614135 [23:29] tpryme has joined the channel [23:30] satori_: I have never done any theory classes on compiler design or anything else. But I read alot. [23:30] satori_: I considered going to uni to get a degree, just for something to do. [23:30] satori_: but I have changed my mind [23:30] tjholowaychuk_: satori_: im really into that stuff too, just no time to read even these days [23:31] maushu: creationix, 8? Thats like... 2 years before me! [23:31] satori_: Australian goverment will pay most of one degree for anyone who qualifies, I haven't used mine yet. [23:31] tjholowaychuk_: micheil: haha nice tweet [23:31] maushu: You and your BASIC! [23:32] TommyM has joined the channel [23:32] mape: god damit the twitters isn't catching node.js [23:32] srdjan has joined the channel [23:33] logemann: 1:30 am ... perhaps time to go to bed to be fresh for my next working day at Deutsche Telekom ;-) [23:34] satori_: ciao [23:34] srdjan has joined the channel [23:34] tjholowaychuk_: yay added wget to nDistro [23:34] logemann: perhaps i will join in again.. was a nice experience in this dark JS arena .... love your _announcer though... [23:35] maushu: Oh nice, fusionads.net seems interesting. [23:35] creationix: logemann: good to meet you [23:36] logemann: thx. same for me. Good community. I think you can create some nice things over time.... we will see.... [23:36] mape: have a good one :) [23:37] satori_: It's a really shitty day in Sydney today. A good day for writing code. [23:37] SteveDekorte has joined the channel [23:37] amerine has joined the channel [23:38] jacoblyles has joined the channel [23:39] _announcer: Twitter: "nice JS community on # node.js (freenode). Impressed by their twitter-grep-bot. They read everyone mentioning node.js. Scary as in 1984 :-)" -- Marc Logemann. http://twitter.com/logemann/status/19695283597 [23:39] rauchg_: hahahaha [23:39] satori_: lol [23:39] mape: hehe [23:39] chilts: heh, the secret is out [23:39] rauchg_: i like the evolution of his tweets [23:40] chilts: except only we know about it [23:40] rauchg_: from "serverside js is not useful" [23:40] rauchg_: to [23:40] rauchg_: "i might write a tcp server" [23:40] rauchg_: :D [23:40] tjholowaychuk_: haha [23:40] tjholowaychuk_: fuck, i have an underscore [23:40] tjholowaychuk_: asshole [23:40] rauchg_: me too [23:40] satori_: ..to 'the node irc crew are great' [23:40] rauchg_: i forgot my nickserv password [23:40] rauchg_: hahah true that satori_ [23:40] mape: one at a time.. one at a time [23:40] rauchg_: to "omG! I LOVZ NODE!" [23:40] rauchg_: in 2 minutes [23:40] satori_: new record? [23:41] chilts: heh, I should re-tweet: 11:42:47 < rauchg_> to "omG! I LOVZ NODE!" [23:41] chilts: re-irc? [23:41] _announcer: Twitter: "Programming with Node.js strangely feels like developing with LISP" -- KC. http://twitter.com/reaneyk/status/19695460349 [23:43] SubStack: !tweet @reaneyk: javascript is after all just scheme with curly braces [23:43] SubStack: if that even works [23:44] lachlanhardy has joined the channel [23:44] rauchg_: !tweet @reaneyk The little javascripter is a good read: http://www.crockford.com/javascript/little.html [23:44] batasrki: SubStack: it works [23:44] SubStack: fty [23:44] batasrki: just searched it on twitter [23:44] SubStack: s/^/ni/ [23:44] SubStack: ACTION isn't really sure how twitter is supposed to work [23:45] batasrki: SubStack: think of it as a huge room full of people with megaphones that are others willing connect their earphones to [23:45] batasrki: willing to [23:45] maushu: SubStack, it doesn't show up here since announcer thinks that the nodebot is a bot. [23:45] batasrki: fucking typing [23:45] jacoblyles: what's a good, cheap webhost for experimenting with node? [23:46] batasrki: jacoblyles: heroku [23:46] batasrki: it's so cheap, it's free [23:46] jacoblyles: batarski: is node available for all customers yet? [23:46] devongovett has joined the channel [23:46] [[zzz]] has joined the channel [23:47] creationix: alright, something is wrong with wheat and process.evalcx [23:47] creationix: that's the new version in "Script" [23:47] maushu: jacoblyles, would you pay for the hosting to experiment with node? [23:48] jacoblyles: maushu: sure, I need a host anyway [23:48] maushu: Thats good news for me. It means that there is a market in my node.js hosting idea. [23:49] _announcer: Twitter: "@al3x @dalmaer indeed - writing client-side and sever-side code in the same language is also an attractive part of node.js (the anti-GWT?)" -- Kevin Marks. http://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/19695910019 [23:53] _announcer: Twitter: "Excellent article by @al3x on node.js and real-world scaling. http://bit.ly/c2rbil" -- Mike Loukides. http://twitter.com/mikeloukides/status/19696153300 [23:59] _announcer: Twitter: "@kevinmarks @dalmaer It seems to me that very few node.js projects take advantage of this. Most code can't run on both unmodified." -- Eric Florenzano. http://twitter.com/ericflo/status/19696483101