[00:00] benburkert has joined the channel
[00:00] JimBastard: hey shimondoodkin are you around?
[00:00] shimondoodkin: yes
[00:01] Astro: heya
[00:01] Astro: I can publish my pkg on npmjs sans erreur
[00:01] Astro: but the new version is just not appearing
[00:01] Astro: node-xmpp is the name
[00:02] JimBastard: Astro: hrmmm
[00:02] tav_ has joined the channel
[00:02] mrdoob: now using node-websocket-server
[00:02] mrdoob: http://mrdoob.com/lab/javascript/multiuserpad/
[00:05] malkomalko: lol, who is drawing all of those crazy lines?
[00:05] malkomalko: looks like a js function :)
[00:05] qschzt: me
[00:05] JimBastard: malkomalko: i bet you could do fun things in firebug
[00:05] malkomalko: sign wave
[00:06] malkomalko: sin
[00:06] JimBastard: i can do anything in firebug :-)
[00:06] malkomalko: that's what I was saying
[00:06] qschzt: oops, could use undo ;)
[00:06] Astro: what a nice toy
[00:06] JimBastard: thats such a great idea, ive been thinking about that for a long time
[00:06] JimBastard: i think moot is building the same thing @ canv.as
[00:06] JimBastard: http://canv.as
[00:06] JimBastard: (4chan owner)
[00:07] qschzt: mrdoob, users v. cpu now?
[00:07] jashkenas: malkomalko: https://gist.github.com/2f79d1cd0d16e126ac82
[00:07] malkomalko: figured :)
[00:07] mrdoob: qschzt, eek, let me track that
[00:08] malkomalko: bamn, just added a red square
[00:09] qschzt: i wanna see more of jashkenas's tests
[00:10] qschzt: mrdoob, great job! way to get into node
[00:11] jashkenas: qschzt: http://jashkenas.s3.amazonaws.com/misc/deJong/deJong.html  
[00:11] jashkenas: click and drag to re-seed the attractor.
[00:11] jashkenas: http://jashkenas.s3.amazonaws.com/misc/deJong/deJong.html
[00:11] jashkenas: is the source.
[00:11] jashkenas: sorry: http://jashkenas.s3.amazonaws.com/misc/deJong/deJong.coffee
[00:11] qschzt: whoah o_O
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[00:12] mrdoob: qschzt, thanks! :)
[00:13] malkomalko: that's very cool
[00:14] mrdoob: wops, reseted the server
[00:14] mrdoob: refrehs :)
[00:14] mrdoob: *refresh
[00:15] mrdoob: now I can see the amount of users
[00:16] shimondoodkin: jashkenas: what does it do?
[00:17] jashkenas: shimondoodkin: works best in chrome. it's one of these: http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/fractals/peterdejong/
[00:17] jashkenas: x = sin(a y) - cos(b x)
[00:17] jashkenas: and vice versa.
[00:18] malkomalko: yup
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[00:19] Tim_Smart: mrdoob: Is that using websockets now?
[00:20] malkomalko: this is pretty fun
[00:20] mrdoob: Tim_Smart, yep
[00:21] shimondoodkin: jashkenas:i'm facinated with your toy
[00:22] jashkenas: it's pretty fun. I've been wanting to write an article about it, as sort of a gentle introduction to CoffeeScript and Canvas, with a nice reward.
[00:22] qschzt: jashkenas, that's very nice
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[00:23] creationix: shimondoodkin: yes?
[00:23] shimondoodkin: creationix: yep i'm here
[00:23] qschzt: jashkenas, beautiful in fact
[00:23] creationix: shimondoodkin: did you get your connect question answered?
[00:24] JimBastard: im feeling stupid here. can i not cherry-pick a single commit from a remote repo?
[00:24] jashkenas: qschzt: it's my favorite strange attractor. You can plot it in three dimensions as well, if you've got some way to input the z-index.
[00:24] JimBastard: git cherry-pick SHA ?
[00:24] jashkenas: JimBastard: fetch it first.
[00:24] shimondoodkin: no i've  started my own http library leraning from you
[00:24] Tim_Smart: JimBastard: Yeah you can. I made a write-up on how to do that somewhere.
[00:24] JimBastard: trying jashkenas 
[00:24] qschzt: jash there is some 3d feel to it but i can't quite grab it
[00:25] Tim_Smart: JimBastard: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1405030/using-git-how-can-i-selectively-pull-merge-changes-from-anothers-fork
[00:26] shimondoodkin: creationix: thanks getting bak, and your code ir really helpful
[00:26] creationix: :)
[00:29] JimBastard: hrmmm
[00:29] aheckmann: this sketch pad is a blast.
[00:30] piratepenguin has joined the channel
[00:30] Tim_Smart: mrdoob: Has the load decreased now?
[00:32] [[zz]] has joined the channel
[00:33] qschzt: that's the question
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[00:36] qschzt: shame the quality with a collaborative wall is just going to be pretty low :)
[00:36] JimBastard: yeah, for some reason it really wanted me to add the remote
[00:36] JimBastard: qschzt: now you gotta add photo uploads
[00:36] JimBastard: ;-)
[00:36] mrdoob: Tim_Smart, yeah, seems better
[00:37] mrdoob: 14 people 8% cpu
[00:37] mrdoob: hasn't reached 100% so far
[00:37] JimBastard: that doesnt seem right
[00:37] qschzt: *clap* wonderful
[00:37] mrdoob: max has been 25%
[00:37] qschzt: that's a great optimization
[00:37] JimBastard: it might not get over 35 or so for a while
[00:37] qschzt: it's still too high, but it's much better 
[00:37] Tim_Smart: Imagine it it got put on Hacker News haha
[00:38] Tim_Smart: qschzt: You need to do some rate limiting on the client side
[00:38] Tim_Smart: Maybe only send commands when they draw
[00:38] qschzt: we talked about it
[00:38] qschzt: I thought maybe send draw events every 1s and on every click
[00:38] mrdoob: Tim_Smart, yeah, but then people won't fight with the cursors
[00:38] qschzt: now I think mrdoob sends every draw event
[00:38] mrdoob: ;)
[00:39] mrdoob: it's sending every mouse move
[00:39] qschzt: every move event even
[00:39] mrdoob: which is quite a lot
[00:39] mrdoob: and mouse down, mouse up
[00:40] qschzt: that's definitely too much
[00:41] Tim_Smart: Yeah it is ~13 kB / s of commands atm :/
[00:42] mrdoob: Tim_Smart, how can you track that?
[00:42] mrdoob: I lack the tools
[00:43] mrdoob: oh, websockets also work on safari :), so it's safari + chrome
[00:43] mrdoob: better than I ghough
[00:43] qschzt: i'm using mac menumeters :)
[00:43] mrdoob: hah
[00:44] qschzt: mrdoob well.. you could count the size of packets received and report + reset it every second in setInterval 
[00:44] Tim_Smart: mrdoob: Ubuntu system monitor has a network monitor
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[00:44] mrdoob: yeah, I'm using ubuntu
[00:45] mrdoob: Resources/Network History?
[00:45] Tim_Smart: Yup.
[00:45] mrdoob: I see
[00:47] qschzt: nnnmmmhh
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[00:47] qschzt: yeah ok that'll tell you the entire packet
[00:48] qschzt: *if
[00:48] jamescarr: there was a module that its name eludes me... takes a json object and converts it to a url string?
[00:48] jamescarr: i.e. {foo:1, bar:'baz'} becomes ?foo=1&bar=baz?
[00:49] jamescarr: querystring
[00:50] qschzt: mape, how many concurrent users did you have?
[00:50] jashkenas: holy cow! you guys are going to like this.
[00:50] mape: qschzt: didn't really track
[00:51] jashkenas: fuck. V8 is just as fast as Java is.
[00:52] Tim_Smart: jashkenas: Are you running bench's or something?
[00:53] jashkenas: nah, I've got something up my sleeve. Give me a minute to get it clean and documented.
[00:53] qschzt: mape, ok, tack anyway
[00:53] mape: :)
[00:54] qschzt: mape, it was kinda half duplex too
[00:54] qschzt: is
[00:54] benburkert has joined the channel
[00:54] qschzt: still extremely cool
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[00:59] qschzt: mape/mrdoob, next is basically just keeping track of stats and optimizing details
[00:59] qschzt: how many people are online, what platforms, what locations, etc
[00:59] qschzt: mrdoob, maybe creating rooms ..
[01:00] mrdoob: yeah
[01:00] mrdoob: if I this gets somehow manageable I'll do that
[01:00] mrdoob: want to see 100 people on it and the server handling it
[01:00] mrdoob: otherwise won't bother
[01:00] qschzt: now you know how node works anyways, yes the next step for you is to see it stress out
[01:00] mrdoob: yep
[01:01] pkrumins: is here a way to make fs.readFile do chunked io? or does it do it already?
[01:01] pkrumins: from the docs it seems it reads the whole file in memory before calling callback
[01:01] qschzt: mrdoob, can we see the code again?
[01:02] mrdoob: server?
[01:02] mrdoob: sure
[01:02] pkrumins: my files can be hundreds of megs in size, that will bring down the whole node
[01:02] pkrumins: probably have to write it myself
[01:02] pkrumins: with fs.read
[01:02] mrdoob: qschzt, http://pastebin.com/FZ3ATy46
[01:04] qschzt: top notch excellent work. I'm off, bona notte :)
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[01:05] mrdoob: ^^
[01:05] skampler: pkrumins: i use fs.createReadStream in that case
[01:06] Tim_Smart: fs.createReadStream ftw
[01:07] pkrumins: oic, hadn't used createReadStream before
[01:08] pkrumins: so i create a readstream, attach a 'data' listener and i am ready to go, right?
[01:08] sewpafly has joined the channel
[01:08] skampler: yes
[01:08] mrdoob: I'm off too
[01:08] mrdoob: thanks everyone for the hints
[01:08] mrdoob: <3
[01:08] pkrumins: naisss.
[01:09] pkrumins: thanks!
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[01:13] unscene: I just installed npm through brew, then install vows
[01:13] unscene: it doesnt look like my installation allows me to just call vows from the cmdline
[01:13] unscene: anyone else had this problem?
[01:13] Tim_Smart: unscene: Depends if it inserts it into you PATH
[01:13] unscene: yeah i have node_libraries
[01:14] unscene: .node_libraries*
[01:14] Tim_Smart: $PATH as in environment variable
[01:14] unscene: yep its in the path
[01:15] Tim_Smart: node_libraries isn't relevant in this case, if vows can't be found via command line
[01:16] Tim_Smart: Its the bin path that you need fixing.
[01:16] unscene: example?
[01:17] shimondoodkin: require.paths.unshift(__dirname); //make local paths accecible --= is this it?
[01:17] unscene: maybe im not understanding how npm works but i thought it threw the installs into .node_libraries
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[01:18] shimondoodkin: require.paths.unshift(__dirname); //make local paths accessible
[01:18] Tim_Smart: unscene: Look at binpath http://github.com/isaacs/npm/blob/master/doc/config.md
[01:18] Tim_Smart: shimondoodkin: Not the node path, the os path.
[01:19] shimondoodkin: k
[01:19] unscene: gotcha
[01:19] unscene: thx
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[01:29] callen: has anyone here used the C preprocessor with js?
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[01:41] shimondoodkin: where have you seen staff about C ?
[01:41] JimBastard: ive got an interesting one. why is it that i can eval() JSON that has comments in it, but i can't JSON.parse() it >.<
[01:42] JimBastard: thats a bit fucked i have to use eval() here
[01:42] callen: shimondoodkin: I'm sorry?
[01:42] callen: JimBastard: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/244777/can-i-comment-a-json-file
[01:42] callen: JimBastard: JSON is data not code.
[01:42] JimBastard: callen: i have a good use case i swear
[01:43] callen: JimBastard: then either hack up your parse or suck it up and use eval.
[01:43] shimondoodkin: hi callen maybe you can tell memore  about what are you talking i have tried searching  about C and could not find anything
[01:43] callen: JimBastard: having a good use case doesn't break convention, I'm afraid. parse is intentionally very simple.
[01:43] JimBastard: yeah i gotta eval
[01:43] JimBastard: o well
[01:43] callen: shimondoodkin: uhm. what?
[01:43] JimBastard: WOULDNT BE THE FIRST TIME
[01:43] callen: JimBastard: *shrugs* no big deal.
[01:43] JimBastard: mwahaha
[01:43] JimBastard: :p
[01:43] shimondoodkin: " has anyone here used the C preprocessor with js?"
[01:44] callen: shimondoodkin: yeah. emacs js major modes usually support using cpp in js.
[01:44] callen: I'd read that and was amused, wondering if anybody's actually done that before with production code.
[02:01] pkrumins: hmm
[02:01] shimondoodkin: pop
[02:05] malkomalko: what's the proper way to chain function calls with coffeescript?
[02:08] ryah: hi
[02:09] malkomalko: howdidly
[02:09] mape: ryah: arent you in France?
[02:10] ryah: mape: yeah...
[02:10] ryah: mape: jet lag, can't seep
[02:10] mape: Ah k
[02:10] ryah: i didn't demo your app unfortunately
[02:11] mape: It was broken?
[02:11] ryah: i was all prepared to but the screen wouldn't show it very well
[02:11] ryah: not enough contrast
[02:11] ryah: shitty screen
[02:11] ryah: the beamer
[02:11] mape: Ah, could have changed it
[02:11] mape: If I wasen't sleeping when you pinged me
[02:11] mape: So what was the presentation?
[02:12] ryah: mape: introduction to node
[02:12] pkrumins: ryah: the API of buffer.write didn't suddenly change, did it? I am now looking at docs and they say `buffer.write(string, offset=0, encoding='utf8')` -- I always thought (and I am using in my code right now) that 2nd argument was encoding, but now the docs say 'offset'
[02:12] pkrumins: but it all works
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[02:12] pkrumins: i am a bit confused
[02:12] mape: ryah: just random people?
[02:12] ryah: pkrumins: yeah, it switched order
[02:12] ryah: pkrumins: but we support the old order still
[02:13] pkrumins: ah! that's why it didn't broke.
[02:13] pkrumins: whew.
[02:13] ryah: (trying to be friendly)
[02:13] pkrumins: :)
[02:13] ryah: pkrumins: http://github.com/ry/node/commit/898afbaf348a3f7188cfd759914528704350a448
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[02:13] pkrumins: ryah: did it appear in changelog?
[02:14] ryah: mape: paris web scene
[02:14] pkrumins: ryah: oh it did
[02:14] mape: Ah k
[02:14] pkrumins: * Switch order of arguments for Buffer.write
[02:14] pkrumins: ryah: node 0.1.100!
[02:15] ryah: pkrumins: :)
[02:15] ryah: pkrumins: did you just notice now
[02:15] ryah: ?
[02:15] pkrumins: yeah
[02:15] pkrumins: did you release it like a minute ago?!
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[02:15] ryah: pkrumins: no, about 19 hours ago
[02:16] mape: hehe
[02:16] pkrumins: oh. :)
[02:16] pkrumins: anyway \o/
[02:16] pkrumins: i am still using 0.1.99 :)
[02:16] pkrumins: will see what breaks if anything when i upgrade
[02:16] pkrumins: sys.pump is also in :)
[02:17] CIA-76: node: 03Ryan Dahl 07master * r0315251 10/ (doc/api.markdown doc/index.html): Use 'on' in the docs - http://bit.ly/bDgErx
[02:17] CIA-76: node: 03Ryan Dahl 07master * r3d948d8 10/ (23 files in 2 dirs): Remove a bunch of useless waf files - http://bit.ly/9vCPhV
[02:17] ryah: a6b8586 ry@tinyclouds.org 20 hours ago bump version
[02:17] ryah: i guess 20 hours
[02:18] ryah: alias l='git log --format="%h %Cgreen%ae %Cblue%cr%Creset %s"'
[02:18] ryah: ^-- useful
[02:18] ryah: green='%{\e[40;32m%}'
[02:18] ryah: blue='%{\e[40;34m%}'
[02:19] pkrumins: trying!
[02:19] ryah: type "l -5" in a git dir
[02:19] pkrumins: looks awesome :D
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[02:29] ryah: what are people using for JS vim configs?
[02:30] creationix has joined the channel
[02:30] Tim_Smart: ryah: I got a few plugins I use.
[02:30] Tim_Smart: Let me dig up my .vimrc + .vim
[02:30] ryah: Tim_Smart: if you do setTimeout(function () {<CR>
[02:30] ryah: does it indent 4 spaces or 2 ?
[02:30] Tim_Smart: 2
[02:30] ryah: somehow i've got a bug in my stuff - because normally mine is also two
[02:31] ryah: except when setTimeout starts on column 0
[02:31] ryah: maybe this will help: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1840
[02:32] Tim_Smart: ryah: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/396394/vim.tar.gz
[02:33] Tim_Smart: (See ToggleIndent function)
[02:35] ryah: i don't understand it
[02:35] ryah: what does it do?
[02:35] ryah: it's a command?
[02:35] ryah: :ToggleIndent(2) ?
[02:36] ryah: :Tit, ok
[02:36] Tim_Smart: heh
[02:36] Tim_Smart: ToggleIndent has a if else switch
[02:36] Tim_Smart: numbers are a different option
[02:36] ryah: vim has such an awful langauge
[02:36] Tim_Smart: a:1 = first argument
[02:37] Tim_Smart: Yeah.
[02:37] coolston_bro: what's going on in node land?
[02:38] JSiLVER: word
[02:38] Tim_Smart: :Tis = 2 spaces, :Tit = tab, :TIs = 4 spaces
[02:38] Tim_Smart: (T)oggle (i)ndent (s)pace is how I remember it
[02:39] ryah: Tim_Smart: yeah - this isn't fixing it.. it must be some strange config i've got
[02:39] Tim_Smart: Yeah. You vimrc must have some weird stuff in it or something.
[02:41] ryah: unforunately i've been accumulating a random .vimrc for many years, but hve no idea what all the stuff does
[02:43] Tim_Smart: My favourite plugins would be autoclose, snipMate, NERD Commenter, supertab
[02:44] ryah: do you use nerd tree?
[02:44] Tim_Smart: nope :/
[02:44] ryah: pretty sweet
[02:44] Tim_Smart: ctags or something?
[02:44] Tim_Smart: Oh.. Do you have a good Javascript ctags config?
[02:45] ryah: nope
[02:45] Tim_Smart: Urgh. Ctags for javascript is horrible atm.
[02:45] ryah: nerdtree, file browsing thing
[02:46] Tim_Smart: OK cool cool.
[02:48] ryah: Tim_Smart: oh nerd commenter - great
[02:49] Tim_Smart: Yeah - very handy.
[02:51] Tim_Smart: ryah: You should show http://mrdoob.com/lab/javascript/multiuserpad/ to the crowd out there.
[02:53] ryah: Tim_Smart: conf is over
[02:54] Tim_Smart: Oh right. Anyway, I better get going.
[02:56] jashkenas has joined the channel
[02:58] JSiLVER: hi all
[02:58] jsilver: whats cool in node land right now
[02:58] jsilver: i got npm and node working
[02:58] jsilver: i think i have coffee working too
[02:58] jsilver: on jolicloud netbook
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[03:00] jsilver: thinking of doing a node reimplementation of twitter
[03:00] jsilver: with async and nosql
[03:00] jsilver: or maybe mysql-http
[03:00] jsilver: whatevers considered cool
[03:00] jsilver: ne care
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[03:21] mscdex: node.js rules!
[03:22] Sembiance: indeed it does
[03:22] Sembiance: although I kinda wish there was a simple include()
[03:23] Sembiance: Forcing me to do require() and forcing every individual file into it's own 100% sandbox is kinda restricting
[03:23] Sembiance: it ends up meaning I have to pass a whole bunch more stuff between 'modules' heh, but other than that node.js is great :)
[03:26] mscdex: restricting how?
[03:27] mscdex: what are you passing between modules?
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[03:30] Sembiance: maybe I should ask a question instead. If I do  require('abc')  in two seperate modules, each one get's it's own entire copy right?
[03:30] mscdex: yeah
[03:30] mscdex: well
[03:30] mscdex: the module is cached
[03:31] mscdex: so at least the content is the same
[03:31] mscdex: but i'm assuming they're not references and are copies
[03:32] mscdex: on an unrelated note, does anyone know if the barcamp talks are up online anywhere?
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[03:33] Sembiance: mscdex: I use node-redis which is a NoSQL database. Every time I require('node-redis') it's going to make a connection to the DB. I have several modules that need to talk to the DB, but they all don't need their own connection.
[03:33] mscdex: wha?
[03:33] mscdex: why would it connect when you do a require()?!
[03:33] Sembiance: Since each module is locked in a sandbox, I have to create the DB connection at some 'top level' and then pass the object all around
[03:34] Sembiance: mscdex: sorry, it doesn't connect when you require, you have to connect.
[03:34] Sembiance: mscdex: but the problem remains.
[03:34] mscdex: how else would you envision the solution then, without passing the connection around?
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[03:35] JimBastard: すべての雹キングネプチューンと彼の水を吹く！
[03:35] Sembiance: mscdex: Well Java solves it by having a Singleton or Thread local (basically a global object) with a pool of connections.
[03:35] mscdex: i mean, modules are sandboxed for a reason
[03:36] Sembiance: mscdex: aye, very good reasons, I'm not saying they shouldn't be sandboxed, I'm just saying it makes some things more difficult :)
[03:37] mscdex: well if your modules are "classes", then you could just pass in the connection into the constructor and be done with it
[03:38] Sembiance: mscdex: aye, several of my modules do that.
[03:38] Sembiance: mscdex: I just have one or two that don't and it just starts to feel a little icky passing it around all the time ;)
[03:38] Sembiance: mscdex: no worries though, I still love node :)
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[03:43] malkomalko: I've been getting into the habbit of creating a boot.js Sembiance requiring everything I need, and using exports to assign the libs
[03:44] malkomalko: then in all of my files I just require the lib
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[03:44] malkomalko: err the boot lib
[03:45] Sembiance: malkomalko: but won't your other modules when they require() the boot lib cause everything to be generated again?
[03:46] malkomalko: requiring a file just gives another file access to what's in it
[03:47] malkomalko: let's say you create a var for the require(redis).server or whatever it is
[03:47] malkomalko: just exports that and use that reference elsewhere
[03:48] Sembiance: malkomalko: So the only time it's "Executed" is the first time it's required? After that the already created resultant object is just made available to subsequent requires?
[03:50] malkomalko: exactly
[03:50] malkomalko: when you start up your program it hits all the requires to make sure it can load everything up
[03:50] malkomalko: it's just like any other js var, once it's assigned it's in mem
[03:51] Sembiance: malkomalko: perfect then, that opens up some possibilities :)
[03:51] Sembiance: malkomalko: thanks :)
[03:52] malkomalko: welcome
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[04:23] Tim_Smart: jashkenas: What was the Java thing you were talking about?
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[04:28] Sembiance: woot. the web-socket-js guy added a 'WEB_SOCKET_DISABLE_AUTO_INITIALIZATION' parameter :)
[04:28] Sembiance: now I don't have to modify his file every time I update with the latest version ;)
[04:28] callen: did node.js break npm with version 0.1.100?
[04:29] callen: EventEmitter has no method 'on'
[04:29] callen: ryah: ^^
[04:30] ryah: callen: 'on' is in HEAD
[04:30] ryah: after 100
[04:30] callen: bugger all. thanks.
[04:30] ryah: is isaacs using it?
[04:31] ryah: :/
[04:31] callen: ryah: yes. :|
[04:31] callen: that's why I'm cursing over here.
[04:31] ryah: yeah that's not good
[04:31] ryah: complain :)
[04:31] callen: ryah: I'll give you a stick to go beat him with.
[04:31] callen: meanwhile, recompiling node again :(
[04:31] callen: hooray for fast filesystems.
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[04:32] callen: ryah: his latest commit message, "s/addListener/on/g"
[04:32] callen: I'm going to beat him.
[04:34] callen: I sent an email, with an explanation and a sad face.
[04:34] callen: works now.
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[04:57] jashkenas: Here's the fun sketch promised from a couple hours ago (sorry I took off for a while):
[04:57] jashkenas: http://jashkenas.s3.amazonaws.com/misc/buddhabrot/buddhabrot.html
[04:58] jashkenas: It'll hammer your CPU real hard -- use chrome.
[04:58] jashkenas: the source is at http://jashkenas.s3.amazonaws.com/misc/buddhabrot/buddhabrot.coffee
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[05:02] Aria: Nice.
[05:02] Aria: (Safari 5 is actually faster)
[05:03] jashkenas: that's interesting ... I wonder what they're doing different with math ... the inner loop of it is that Buddhabrot#iterate function.
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[05:13] Aria: Maybe 10% faster. Not huge, but visible.
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[05:25] Sembiance: Is there a way to call a function and pass each item in an array as a argument?
[05:26] Aria: anArray.forEach(function(entry) { ... }) ?
[05:26] jashkenas: Sembiance: func.apply(object, array)
[05:27] jashkenas: (object will be set as "this", in the body of the function.)
[05:28] Sembiance: jashkenas: perfect, thanks
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[05:31] Sembiance: jashkenas: what's normally the 'this' for the function?  'this' ? 'func' ?
[05:31] Aria: Aah.
[05:32] jashkenas: Sembiance: that's one of JavaScript's biggest cans of worms.
[05:32] jashkenas: Sembiance: http://www.quirksmode.org/js/this.html
[05:32] jashkenas: actually, that might be a little wordy ... "this" is the object that the function happens to be attached to at the time.
[05:33] Sembiance: Basically I'm calling a node-redis function that takes multiple arguments. Like this   redis.hmget("key", "field0", "field1", "field2", callback);  except I don't know my fields before runtime, so I need to create an array with them and then do  redis.hmget.apply(???, argsArray);  :)
[05:33] Sembiance: so I probably want  redis.hmget.apply(redis, argsArray); :)
[05:33] jashkenas: right, or redis.hmget ...
[05:33] jashkenas: I'm sorry.
[05:33] jashkenas: that's wrong -- "redis" is correct.
[05:36] Sembiance: jashkenas: cool, thanks for your help :)
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[05:55] mscdex: ugh, i hate dealing with git when i made a mistake in a previous commit
[05:55] mscdex: guess i'll just blast it away and redownload the branch
[05:57] rauchg_: sadly, i do that many times as well
[05:57] rauchg_: haha
[05:57] rauchg_: but what i hate the most is --recursive not being a default of pull / clone
[05:57] mscdex: i did a local commit, then merged changes from the remote branch, and it wouldn't let me revert the commit before the merge
[05:57] mscdex: so... bleh
[06:04] mscdex: :-\
[06:11] mscdex: ryah: doc patch goes to the ML?
[06:16] Sembiance: oh neat, I can crash redis-node with one line :)
[06:20] mscdex: Sembiance: it's a feature, not a bug
[06:28] Sembiance: hehe
[06:28] Sembiance: http://github.com/fictorial/redis-node-client/issues#issue/28
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[06:35] jashkenas: Aria: got another fun port of Tarbelliana: http://gist.github.com/463218
[06:35] Aria: Nice!
[06:36] jashkenas: link: http://jashkenas.s3.amazonaws.com/misc/binary-ring/binary-ring.html
[06:36] jashkenas: click to toggle the blackout.
[06:39] jashkenas: I think it switches over too often.
[06:39] Sembiance: fixed the redis-node bug. Dunno if my patch causes other issues or not though heh
[06:42] jashkenas: ok, now it shouldn't toggle by itself -- you have to click.
[06:45] Sembiance: I should go to bed
[06:45] Sembiance: it's like 3AM almost
[06:46] mscdex: same here
[06:46] mscdex: quarter til
[06:46] jashkenas: one for the road: http://cl.ly/5350280cfcbe4f5d9a60
[06:46] mscdex: poof!
[06:46] mscdex: beam him back up scotty!
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[06:47] mscdex: !api on
[06:47] _api: mscdex: (EventEmitter) method: on(event, listener) -- Adds a listener to the end of the listeners array for the specified event. [ http://nodejs.org/api.html#emitter-on-17 ]
[06:47] jashkenas: !api console
[06:47] mscdex: console isn't public
[06:47] mscdex: heh
[06:47] Sembiance: jashkenas: oooh that is pretty!
[06:49] frodenius: jashkenas: where'd you go?
[06:50] Sembiance: heh
[06:51] mscdex: he tripped and fell into the bitbucket
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[07:02] Sembiance: well, good night. heading to bed.
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[10:04] aaron___: anyone here use npm?
[10:19] markc: aaron___: I just installed it for the first time
[10:20] aaron___: is there some sort of basic config that has to happen? I downloaded & npm installed the mongo-native driver, and it shows up in .node_libraries/.npm
[10:20] aaron___: but for the life of me I can't get it to load via require
[10:20] aaron___: wondering if I need to tweak node to get it to read npms local repo?
[10:27] ryah: yes
[10:27] ryah: hard emitters = working
[10:27] ryah: maybe
[10:37] aaron___: npm issue => solved; though latest npm src dorks on make
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[10:52] mikekelly: anyone here big on jsgi? I'm thinking about implementing something along these lines: http://gist.github.com/451295
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[11:14] micheil: aaron___: probably because npm used ini's
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[11:24] tmedema: Hey folks, what should I read/learn to decide my encoding type? I'm probably using a text based protocol, but it has to be really fast.. so probably ascii rather than utf8 right?
[11:25] tmedema: Or is it a big recommendation to broadcast objects rather than strings?
[11:26] tmedema: I guess one disadvantage with text is that it has to be parsed
[11:26] frodenius: *any* protocol has to be parsed
[11:26] stagas: I think utf8 isn't multibyte if you don't use over ascii chars
[11:27] frodenius: yep, that's why ascii and utf-8 are compatible
[11:31] tmedema: stagas: the node.js documentation says that utf8 is really slow compared to ascii.. "'ascii' - for 7 bit ASCII data only. This encoding method is very fast, and will strip the high bit if set."
[11:32] tmedema: also: "The encoding argument is optional and only applies when chunk is a string. The encoding argument should be either 'utf8' or 'ascii'. By default the body uses ASCII encoding, as it is faster."
[11:32] tmedema: one more: "Sends data on the stream. The second parameter specifies the encoding in the case of a string--it defaults to ASCII because encoding to UTF8 is rather slow."
[11:32] micheil: hmm.. I wonder if now would be a good time to tell marak why a client side require is best with callbacks?
[11:33] stagas: oh yes I see now. the ascii stuff are optimized so use that then
[11:34] tmedema: alright stagas.. does utf8 offer a lot more characters than ascii though?
[11:35] frodenius: :) a lot more is an understatement
[11:38] stagas: if you want to broadcast documents, I suggest utf8
[11:38] tmedema: I only want to broadcast client <> server events.. it's for a game
[11:39] tmedema: eg. turnRight, turnLeft, moveForward, etc.
[11:39] tmedema: or, info#position#xCoord#yCoord
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[11:39] tmedema: (which would be optimized by converting keywords to corresponding keyword IDs)
[11:40] stagas: those can be optimized to be ascii easily, and you should write your own serializer/deserializer parser to avoid the json overhead
[11:40] tmedema: hmm json overhead? what do you mean stagas?
[11:41] stagas: tmedema: are you using the browser as the client?
[11:41] zomgbie has joined the channel
[11:42] tmedema: no stagas, flash player
[11:44] stagas: ok, json is a way to convert an object into a string (serialize) so it can be passed to the client where the client needs to convert it back to an object again to use it (deserialize)
[11:44] tmedema: what do you mean with json overhead though? somekind of overhead not mentioned in the docs?
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[11:44] tmedema: well stagas, if you broadcast a string, it does not have to be stringified right
[11:44] tmedema: since it's already a string
[11:45] stagas: yes
[11:45] tmedema: so how can there be json overhead stagas?
[11:45] stagas: json just adds a lot of extra characters to express the object you serialized
[11:46] tmedema: yeah.. but I am not serializing any objects.. right?
[11:46] stagas: how are you going to send all that data then
[11:47] tmedema: well like this stagas: socketStream.write("1#12232.123#991.93");
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[11:48] tmedema: then in the client it uses the delimiter # to get each argument, then convert the first argument (the keyword ID) to the corresponding keyword
[11:48] stagas: cool that's what I meant, you did the serialization yourself there :)
[11:48] tmedema: eg. 1 means position update
[11:48] tmedema: well stagas maybe I should use Message Objects and make my own serializer like you suggested, because writing literal strings could get quite confusing ?
[11:49] tmedema: like MessageObject { keywordId, arg1, arg2 }
[11:50] tmedema: im thinking I need a shared library between client and server containing all server<> client messages
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[12:22] tmedema: Are there prebuild tools available which can fake mass connections to a server? I would like to stress test my server and see if there are any memory leaks etc.
[12:23] manveru: tmedema: ab (apache bench) or httperf
[12:24] tmedema: manveru: it's not a http server though
[12:24] tmedema: tcp
[12:24] manveru: hmm
[12:24] manveru: not sure about that... what protocol?
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[12:24] manveru: http is tcp as well ;)
[12:25] tmedema: manveru: I guess, but http closes the connection after one request.. I need it to stay alive
[12:25] tmedema: I want to have thousands of simulatenous connections
[12:25] manveru: http also has keepalive connections
[12:25] tmedema: oh
[12:26] manveru: simulating thousands of simultanous connections might be a problem in a single process without changing the ulimits
[12:26] tmedema: ulimits? 
[12:27] manveru: yeah, to increase the number of file descriptors allowed at the same time, it defaults to 1024
[12:27] tmedema: oh, are there more system settings I need to take into consideration?
[12:29] stagas: better to start testing with 10 step increments simultaneous, the load could max easily
[12:30] manveru: tmedema: not that i know of
[12:31] manveru: tmedema: http://www.xenoclast.org/doc/benchmark/HTTP-benchmarking-HOWTO/node7.html#SECTION00072100000000000000
[12:32] tmedema: thanks manveru
[12:33] manveru: you might also need to do that for your server
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[12:34] tmedema: yeah
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[12:54] tmedema: manveru: looks like ab never returns when keeping the connection alive, and if I set a timelimit (-t 10 or so) it simply stops without giving benchmarking results
[12:54] tmedema: it works without the keep alive though.. but thats not very helpful
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[12:56] manveru: tmedema: you can tell ab to save the results as cvs
[12:56] manveru: tmedema: http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/howto-performance-benchmarks-a-web-server.html
[12:56] tmedema: manveru: it doesn't return results though
[13:07] tmedema: well I managed to do some basic testing without keep  alive.. seemed to do good
[13:07] tmedema: is it possible to listen to console input while running node?
[13:07] tmedema: on windows (with cygwin) the input seems to be blocked while running node
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[13:14] malkomalko: is there any tool right now for node that will take an installed node module and package it up in your application?
[13:15] malkomalko: I'd love to 'unpack' what I have in .node_libraries or elsewhere into a 'vendor' folder in my application so I can distribute the application without worry
[13:18] tmedema: same malkomalko
[13:18] tmedema: just like I'd love a static build option
[13:18] malkomalko: I wonder if nodules does that, I need to go read up on it
[13:18] malkomalko: if not, maybe I'll build it
[13:26] rgl: 
ACTION waves

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[13:29] malkomalko: hmm, I don't get the nodules example
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[13:30] bradleymeck:   you can use request.paths
[13:32] malkomalko: ahh I get it now
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[13:49] MrNibbles: just a quick note: you are all awesome people :D
[13:51] bradleymeck: just let us know if you have any questions
[13:52] tmedema: is it possible to spawn childs which will execute given code? (so you dont need to actually give a certain existing process name)
[13:52] bradleymeck: js code you mean?
[13:53] tmedema: yes bradleymeck 
[13:53] bradleymeck: !api Script
[13:53] _api: bradleymeck: (Script) constructor: Script -- undefined [ undefined ]
[13:53] tmedema: eg. spawnChild(function() { //child code });
[13:53] bradleymeck: anywho script module
[13:53] bradleymeck: script.runInThisContext script.runInNewContext
[13:54] bradleymeck: or you can load in the script and just eval it
[13:54] tmedema: bradleymeck: the script module requires the code to be inserted as a string
[13:54] tmedema: also I need it to be executed in a child process
[13:54] bradleymeck: what are you inserting it as?
[13:54] tmedema: what do you mean?
[13:55] tmedema: I want to spawn childs to execute long blocking calculations
[13:55] tmedema: to make them async
[13:55] bradleymeck: if you cant insert it as a string? and look into jefe for that i would think
[13:55] bradleymeck: they will still be eating cpu at same amount w/o multiple cores just remember
[13:55] tmedema: syntax like this is not possible bradleymeck ? child = spawnChild(function() { //child code });
[13:55] bradleymeck: jefe can do it if i remember right
[13:56] tmedema: what do you mean with the eating cpu thing?
[13:56] tmedema: the process can be executed on a different core if needs be right?
[13:56] bradleymeck: actually, doesnt look like jefe can, sec, umm yes it can but if you spawn more than your cores you will still be using up context switches
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[13:57] bradleymeck: anywho doesnt look like we have anything to serialize a function's closure after a lil search, so no that is not possible
[13:58] tmedema: bradleymeck: can't 2 processes execute at the same time on 1 core?
[13:58] bradleymeck: yes
[13:58] tmedema: so what is the problem?
[13:58] bradleymeck: but you will be using context switching so you dont gain perf you lose it
[13:59] bradleymeck: at the OS level it has to swap between the processes
[13:59] tmedema: not sure what context switching is but the point is to make the calculation non-blocking
[13:59] tmedema: so you're saying that spawning childs for heavy calculations is not a good thing?
[13:59] bradleymeck: its good if you spawn as many as you have cores, past that it is not
[14:00] tmedema: hmm didn't know that
[14:00] bradleymeck: then you are going to have to serialize the code to a string in order to get all closures you need
[14:00] tmedema: :[
[14:02] tmedema: well bradleymeck maybe you know what I should do instead. Basically I have a normal server app and while the server is running I want a couple of things to be checked constantly.. eg. one "thread" has to loop over all sockets all the time, perform calculations for them and do actions based on the results.. I want this thread to not block the main server (much)
[14:03] bradleymeck: oi JimBastard, could broodmother do ^
[14:06] davidwalsh has joined the channel
[14:06] tmedema: ?
[14:06] bradleymeck: well anywho you can do that as long as you can separate out the functions you need called, i would use a system like broodmother that is set up to make multiple processes
[14:06] sechrist: broodmother
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[14:11] sechrist: hmm
[14:11] tmedema: hmm, it's a load balancing library? I don't need that though ;)
[14:12] malkomalko: kriszyp: whenever you get around, how does nodules work with packages that have dependencies?
[14:12] sechrist: man
[14:12] sechrist: i'm about to compile node on a kindle that has it's filesystem mounted over NFS
[14:12] sechrist: this is going to be painful
[14:14] sechrist: where's the _announcer
[14:14] bradleymeck: idk
[14:14] bradleymeck: bother maushu
[14:15] sechrist: I totally just tweetnoded 
[14:15] maushu: You lie.
[14:15] sechrist: no
[14:15] sechrist: http://twitter.com/chasesechrist/status/17722665520
[14:15] sechrist: serious business
[14:15] sechrist: [50/68] already
[14:16] sechrist: surprising
[14:16] sechrist: v8 is probably the last thing and it's going to take a year
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[14:17] bradleymeck: !nick _utility
[14:17] sechrist: must hide the nodebot
[14:18] sechrist: maushu: it bork?
[14:18] maushu: Don't know.
[14:18] _announcer has joined the channel
[14:18] maushu: It was probably twitter.
[14:18] sechrist: blame it on the failwhale
[14:18] sechrist: I don't even know why i'm going to run node on my kindle
[14:19] sechrist: I'm going to build a proxy but I'm 99.9% sure I should do it in C
[14:19] tmedema: is orlandov here?
[14:22] sechrist: wow it's been compiling code like a mofo for like 10 mins and it's not even warm
[14:22] _announcer: Twitter: "Restarted announcer again. I hate you twitter. #nodejs" -- Diogo Gomes. http://twitter.com/graphnode/status/17723176686
[14:23] Sembiance: :)
[14:23] Sembiance: morning :)
[14:23] _announcer: Twitter: "Checking about realtime debugging on the browser side. Need to read about the v8 debugging protocol. #v8 #nodejs" -- Diogo Gomes. http://twitter.com/graphnode/status/17723234664
[14:24] sechrist: so
[14:24] sechrist: we can debug node
[14:24] sechrist: inside of chrome?
[14:25] sechrist: or how does this work
[14:25] Sembiance: heh
[14:25] Sembiance: well, v8 has a built in debugging server.
[14:25] kriszyp: malkomalko: you make a set of mappings defining how your modules should be mapped to the dependency packages
[14:25] Sembiance: I know that you can get an eclipse plugin from google that lets you debug a remote v8 instance, but I never tried it with node.js before
[14:25] sechrist: server? I knew about the prof and the tick tool
[14:26] malkomalko: let me try that kriszyp 
[14:26] malkomalko: basically, if a repo has a .gitmodules
[14:26] kriszyp: there should be an example and examples in the docs
[14:26] malkomalko: map the .gitmodule paths relative to the require parent module
[14:27] Sembiance: sechrist: http://wiki.github.com/ry/node/using-eclipse-as-node-applications-debugger
[14:27] sechrist: yeah but "on the browser side" sounds like in chrome
[14:27] malkomalko: so I guess the question should of been what if a dependency has a dependency
[14:27] sechrist: malkomalko: funroll loops
[14:28] malkomalko: fruit roll ups? :)
[14:28] Sembiance: sechrist: I'm not sure I understand your confusion, sorry
[14:28] sechrist: i'm not confused
[14:28] sechrist: lol
[14:28] Sembiance: :)
[14:28] sechrist: "Checking about realtime debugging on the browser side."
[14:28] kriszyp: transivitive dependencies should be fine
[14:28] kriszyp: each package can declare its own set of mappings/dependenceis
[14:28] Sembiance: sechrist: so you want to debug server side node.js inside of a browser?
[14:29] sechrist: Sembiance: no I was quoting that tweet
[14:29] Sembiance: oh rofl
[14:29] Sembiance: now I get it :)
[14:29] sechrist: >.<
[14:30] tmedema: Last check.. there is no "multithreading" alternative such as spawning childs library atm right (I know these are different things)?
[14:30] sechrist: last I knew, just processes
[14:30] sechrist: with message passing
[14:31] tmedema: yeah but you have to compile a separate process right sechrist ? there is no library that allows something like spawnTempProcess(function() { //child coded });
[14:31] sechrist: uh
[14:31] sechrist: yeah
[14:31] sechrist: node-webworkers
[14:31] sechrist: or workers
[14:31] sechrist: I forget
[14:31] sechrist: check that out
[14:32] sechrist: you create them dynamically, you don't have to run node multiple times
[14:34] tmedema: sechrist: it still requires a custom js file
[14:34] sechrist: custom as in having to implement it? yeah
[14:34] tmedema: custom as in the code not being inside the spawner sechrist 
[14:34] sechrist: well technically it's in a require
[14:34] sechrist: but require caches
[14:34] sechrist: so
[14:34] sechrist: yeah
[14:35] tmedema: maybe I shouldn't use worker processes though.. the thing is that I'd have to pass an array to the child with over 10.000 objects
[14:35] tmedema: might not be good performance wise
[14:35] maushu: OVER 9000?!
[14:35] sechrist: yeah I wouldn't do that
[14:35] tmedema: No.
[14:35] tmedema: Over 10.000.
[14:36] maushu: :o
[14:36] sechrist: that's ridiculous 
[14:36] _announcer: Twitter: "Nodejs dangerous dangerous. It is God" [ja] -- ishikawan. http://twitter.com/scraperonce/status/17723977305
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[14:36] sechrist: you should var object = eval(JSON.stringify(the_array); in a loop for each iteration as well
[14:36] tmedema: =p well ridiculous would be to handle 10.000 objects and perform calculations with them inside the main server app
[14:36] sechrist: to consume more
[14:36] tmedema: as it would block new connections
[14:37] sechrist: tmedema: uh
[14:37] sechrist: why do you need to pass an object with 10000 subobjects
[14:37] sechrist: at the same time
[14:37] sechrist: over and over
[14:37] tmedema: I don't... only when the child is created
[14:37] tmedema: so at server startup
[14:37] tmedema: though whenever a new connection is made it has to be updated
[14:37] sechrist: oh, that's not that terrible then
[14:38] tmedema: problem is when someone disconnects the child has to remove the client too
[14:38] tmedema: I guess its doable
[14:38] sechrist: so you have to synchronize stuff
[14:38] sechrist: or depending on your use case
[14:38] sechrist: just sit on redis and pubsub
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[14:39] tmedema: So you folks think workers are a good solution? I'd use them for jobs like checking whether clients are in line of sight with each other, to backup data in memory to a database, etc.
[14:39] sechrist: you haven't really described your use case other than 10k objects
[14:40] sechrist: oh
[14:40] sechrist: k
[14:40] tmedema: sechrist: they're socket clients for a game
[14:40] sechrist: meanwhile, node is still compiling on my kindle
[14:41] sechrist: I hope the usb chipset in the macbook pro is good because I swear I think i'll burn it out
[14:41] tmedema: why compile node on an e-book?
[14:41] sechrist: because there's no real good way to cross compile
[14:41] sechrist: it was easier just to let it compile there than set up a cross compile toolchain
[14:41] sechrist: fuck that
[14:42] tmedema: you need to run node.js on an e-book?
[14:42] sechrist: well yeah
[14:43] sechrist: it's more of a wifi hotspot not
[14:43] sechrist: now*
[14:43] sechrist: not so much an ebook
[14:43] sechrist: I'm going to use node to route requests
[14:43] tmedema: so it's like a netbook
[14:43] sechrist: sort of
[14:43] sechrist: it's a free internet device that I can read on
[14:44] tmedema: nice =D
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[14:46] sechrist: sad part is it uses at&T
[14:46] sechrist: so it's no better than my iphone
[14:46] sechrist: but I can't tether my iphone without paying $20 more a month and having a data cap
[14:47] sechrist: (until the iphone 4 is jailbroken)
[14:47] sechrist: then I have two wireless devices
[14:47] sechrist: woah holy shit musclenerd already has arbitrary code running on the new baseband
[14:48] tmedema: I wish I had gadgets like you do =p
[14:49] tmedema: I'd have a watch with satellite tv, e-books spreading wifi wherever I am and iphones just for the sake of having one
[14:50] tmedema: solar charges on my back of course
[14:51] sechrist: haahah
[14:51] sechrist: still compiling ugh
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[14:51] sechrist: I might as well go to sleep
[14:52] tmedema: You should do this for other people and charge an hourly rate
[14:52] sechrist: LOL
[14:52] sechrist: see it would probably make more sense to take the wireless crap out of the kindle and put it into a netbook
[14:53] sechrist: but I'm afraid of getting banned
[14:53] sechrist: and I want a working kindle
[14:53] tmedema: Wireless crap? You mean you've got somekind of e-book with free internet?
[14:53] sechrist: uh
[14:53] tmedema: "free internet"
[14:53] tmedema: lol
[14:53] sechrist: kindles have 100% internet, internationally
[14:53] sechrist: 100% free internet*
[14:54] sechrist: you buy the kindle
[14:54] sechrist: you have 3G internet
[14:54] sechrist: no monthly fee
[14:54] tmedema: Wow seriousely?
[14:54] tmedema: You can so abuse that
[14:54] sechrist: hush
[14:54] sechrist: it's not _that_ abusable
[14:54] sechrist: because everything has to go through amazon's proxy
[14:54] sechrist: I have to provision the headers and stuff
[14:54] sechrist: but I'm going to work on a point to point proxy to get all types of traffic out
[14:54] sechrist: which is why I'm building node
[14:54] tmedema: A kindle is an ebook offered by amazon or something?
[14:55] sechrist: yeah
[14:55] sechrist: tmedema: where do you live?
[14:55] tmedema: sechrist: holland
[14:55] sechrist: oh I see
[14:55] tmedema: Don't you have to sign somekind of contract saying that you'll be (temporarily) blocked whenever you use 10 times the average bandwidth?
[14:56] tmedema: That's what most of these services do
[14:56] sechrist: eh I accepted a eula
[14:56] sechrist: but I didn't read it
[14:56] tmedema: It probably contains something along those lines
[14:56] sechrist: oh i'm sure
[14:56] sechrist: I don't care
[14:56] tmedema: =) would be nice if it works
[14:57] tmedema: So the e-book doesn't simply use somekind of mobile phone card?
[14:57] tmedema: (not sure what the correct term is)
[14:57] sechrist: of course it does
[14:58] sechrist: the international kindle 2 uses a GSM/HSPDA card
[14:58] sechrist: I don't think it's mini pci-e anymore, it's built into the mobo I think
[14:58] tmedema: Just take it out and put it inside some reader?
[14:58] sechrist: the older american kindles used evdo/sprint and that was a pci-e card
[14:58] sechrist: what do you mean? the sim card is all you need
[14:58] sechrist: I could take the sim and drop it into any 3G USB adapter thing
[14:59] sechrist: well not any, specifically at&ts
[14:59] tmedema: that's what I mean sechrist 
[14:59] tmedema: just do that
[14:59] sechrist: no
[14:59] sechrist: I want a working kindle
[14:59] tmedema: http://www.chinavasion.com/product_info.php/pName/usb-modem-hsdpa-modem-for-high-speed-internet-via-sim-card/
[14:59] sechrist: this is cooler anyway
[14:59] tmedema: Heh =p
[14:59] sechrist: dude that thing looks so cheap
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[15:00] tmedema: Just linked a random one to show what I was talking about
[15:00] tmedema: not sure what they are called
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[15:00] sechrist: I wonder if I could get one that clones the ids
[15:00] sechrist: there's unique ids for GSM chips sort of like mac addresses
[15:00] sechrist: illegal to clone in the US
[15:01] sechrist: but in other countries they don't have laws regarding it
[15:01] tmedema: why would you want to change the "mac address"?
[15:01] sechrist: because if I put the sim card in another device
[15:01] sechrist: its obvious i'm connecting ot the cell network with a non-kindle
[15:02] sechrist: unless the ID is cloned
[15:02] sechrist: of the kindle chipset
[15:02] tmedema: so the sim card broadcasts that Id to the server?
[15:02] sechrist: yeah it's part of the GSM auth process
[15:02] tmedema: ah alright
[15:02] tmedema: well you should be able to change the id
[15:03] tmedema: I can't believe it'd be illegal.. that's like changing your mac address would be illegal
[15:03] sechrist: uh
[15:03] sechrist: changing your mac address, other than for use in routers
[15:03] sechrist: is illegal
[15:03] tmedema: lol?
[15:04] sechrist: oh, that's incorrect
[15:04] sechrist: it's just that a lot of people use it for wardriving
[15:04] sechrist: so :\
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[15:05] sechrist: but yeah gsm phones/devices have this IMEI number
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[15:05] sechrist: it's essentially a mac address
[15:05] tmedema: weird law to be honest
[15:05] sechrist: well there's several reasons
[15:05] tmedema: that's like saying "it is illegal to be anonymous"
[15:05] sechrist: if a phone gets stolen
[15:05] sechrist: they can report it
[15:05] sechrist: and have the phone shut off
[15:06] sechrist: blacklisted, whatever
[15:06] sechrist: it also makes it easier to triangulate
[15:06] sechrist: for better or for worse
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[15:07] tmedema: if they do all that sechrist it's surprising that the e-book's OS allows you to do what you're doing now
[15:07] sechrist: it's linux
[15:07] sechrist: they can't stop me
[15:07] sechrist: you can't put linux on an embedded device and expect it not to get hacked
[15:07] sechrist: sorry
[15:08] tmedema: =D
[15:08] sechrist: https://gist.github.com/a5bca350a1e9bee06c12
[15:09] tmedema: but how do you go into the console etc. sechrist ?
[15:09] sechrist: ssh
[15:09] tmedema: or do you connect it to a pc?
[15:10] sechrist: yeah it's connected via usb
[15:10] tmedema: ah it accepts incoming sockets?
[15:10] sechrist: not by default
[15:10] tmedema: I see ^^^
[15:10] sechrist: the entry vector is rebuilding a software update that enables a usb networking featured used for debugging
[15:10] sechrist: then, install a telnet/SSHD
[15:11] sechrist: but I went a little further than that, I got a full ubuntu system running 
[15:11] sechrist: headless, but the guts are there
[15:11] sechrist: NFS mounted over the wire
[15:11] tmedema: nice
[15:11] sechrist: which is why I thought I was going to burn out my usb
[15:14] tmedema: how big is that thing sechrist ? and howlong does the battery last if you use it as an international router?
[15:14] sechrist: i have no idea
[15:14] tmedema: also does it connect over a satelite?
[15:15] sechrist: nah
[15:15] tmedema: hmm how can you have a connection everywhere then?
[15:15] sechrist: good question
[15:15] sechrist: but it does
[15:15] tmedema: o.o
[15:15] sechrist: it's cell based
[15:15] sechrist: so anywhere the's 3G gsm
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[15:16] tmedema: yeah but they'd have to pay for each route from tower to tower
[15:16] sechrist: I'm not sure how the internationalism works
[15:16] sechrist: but I do know it'll work everywhere in the US without a hiccup
[15:16] sechrist: and they call it "international" perhaps they ship it with a simcard localized to you
[15:17] tmedema: nice so they cover all the costs the international phone companies ask for using their towers
[15:17] tmedema: I want one :p
[15:18] tmedema: I guess you need a pretty expensive one to be fast enough for this purpose?
[15:18] sechrist: I paid $150 usd
[15:18] sechrist: on woot
[15:18] sechrist: you can get a used kindle 2 for cheaper
[15:18] sechrist: prolly
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[15:18] sechrist: but I don't suggest doing this
[15:18] sechrist: i'm doing it for fun, not really to use it
[15:19] augustl: sort of topic: does anyone know what Google used to create the Google Maps documentation? http://code.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/javascript/reference.html
[15:19] augustl: is it some JavaScript comments => html thing, manual labour, something else?
[15:20] sechrist: probably a structure for javascript comments to html
[15:20] augustl: judging from the docs, their source code probably follows a strict Java/maven-like convention
[15:20] tmedema: sechrist: I would do it for "fun" since being able to use my netbook anywhere in the world with a connection would be quite entertaining
[15:20] augustl: perhaps they rolled their own docs generator based on that
[15:22] augustl: would certainly like to have a look at the un-minified google maps JavaScript..
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[15:46] JimBastard_: Alla hagel Kung Neptunus och hans luftningsanordningar vatten.
[15:47] mape: need to get that translation working
[15:47] JimBastard_: whats the literal on that one?
[15:47] JimBastard_: lol
[15:47] JimBastard_: how close is it?
[15:48] JimBastard_: All hail King Neptune and his water aeration devices.
[15:48] mape: All hailstone King Neptunus and his air appliance water.
[15:48] JimBastard_: lol
[15:48] JimBastard_: hailstone!
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[16:33] tmedema: is it possible to stringify a function so that you can use it with eval ?
[16:34] tmedema: or better, a block of code
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[16:39] Sembiance: tmedema: don't you know that eval is evil?
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[16:43] JimBastard__ has joined the channel
[16:43] JimBastard__: has anyone seen fictorial around in the IRC lately? i want to tell him to go fuck himself
[16:43] Kiba: JimBastard__: you are a true bastard.
[16:43] JimBastard__: if anyone see's him please pass along the message
[16:43] tmedema: Sembiance: probably.. I am probably going to use process.compile, though I guess it's the same.. anyway I need to spawn a dynamically created child which runs a piece of code (given inside the spawner)
[16:44] rtl has joined the channel
[16:44] towski: *cough* path to madness *cough*
[16:44] Sembiance: tmedema: ah :)
[16:45] tmedema: Sembiance, I want to do this: child = spawnChild(function() { /* child code */ });
[16:45] tmedema: so I figured I had to write that code to a js file
[16:45] tmedema: then compile that js file
[16:45] tmedema: and then run it as a child
[16:45] _announcer: Twitter: "Finally taking a look at node.js today…" -- Matt Willhite. http://twitter.com/MiWillhite/status/17731753074
[16:45] tmedema: or is there a faster better way?
[16:46] Sembiance: haven't done any child spawning with node yet
[16:46] JimBastard__: eval ?
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[16:47] tmedema: JimBastard__: ?
[16:47] JimBastard__: just eval the code?
[16:48] tmedema: JimBastard__: ehh it has to be executed in a different process
[16:48] JimBastard__: why?
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[16:49] tmedema: JimBastard__: I need to run several background jobs for a server app.. they check every socket client, perform calculations and inform the main thread.. or they backup data from memory to a database..
[16:50] tmedema: basically they need to do their lower prioritization stuff in the background without blocking the main app
[16:50] JimBastard__: isnt there like a DJ implementation 
[16:51] bradleymeck: Eval is not evil is used correctly, just like a gun is not evil in good hands
[16:51] tmedema: DJ implementation JimBastard__ ?
[16:51] JimBastard__: no
[16:51] JimBastard__: im drawing a blank right now, but im fairly certain there are libs in place to help you with this
[16:52] JimBastard__: in my node coding so far i havent came across a place where i need to do what you are trying, in the way you are doing it
[16:52] JimBastard__: i just spawn up new apps
[16:52] JimBastard__: and have the database be shared
[16:53] JimBastard__: maybe you can do what you need to do in an easier way
[16:53] JimBastard__: i dunno
[16:53] tmedema: yeah well I really dislike creating a new application for what is actually part of the same application
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[16:54] JimBastard__: i didnt say to do that
[16:54] technoweenie: tmedema: you might need to wait for web workers
[16:55] JimBastard__: i said in a similar situation, thats what i did 
[16:55] JimBastard__: technoweenie: i thought those guys had that shit working?
[16:55] technoweenie: oh wait, different process
[16:56] technoweenie: have you seen node-resque?  
[16:56] tmedema: technoweenie: the webworker libs require you to make a separate js file
[16:56] technoweenie: http://github.com/jbr/node-resque
[16:56] technoweenie: just throwing ideas out
[16:56] JimBastard__: yeah
[16:56] JimBastard__: like DJ for node
[16:57] tmedema: hmm I'm not using redis
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[16:58] skampler: i use redis to share data for background processing
[16:59] technoweenie: i do too, its actually pretty awesome for that
[16:59] skampler: basically, a c program connects to redis and runs the monitor command, and the node program just does it's thing
[17:00] _announcer: Twitter: "Summary of BarCamp node.js, mogoDB, NoSQL, WebSocket ... webWorkersCamp! http://ow.ly/26N4B" [fr] -- Romain Simiand. http://twitter.com/pixxelboy/status/17732569780
[17:00] tmedema: Well... can I not convert a block of code to a string?
[17:00] tmedema: If I can do that, I could write that string to a new .js file.. then I can run that .js file with node as a child process.
[17:01] JimBastard__: toString()
[17:01] tmedema: toString on what? :p
[17:01] JimBastard__: your closure
[17:01] JimBastard__: the function
[17:01] tmedema: well it's not a function
[17:01] JimBastard__: everything is a function
[17:02] JimBastard__: give it scope if you have to
[17:02] tmedema: { class Child { private var someVar:Int; private function test() { } } }.toString()
[17:02] JimBastard__: wtf is a class
[17:03] tmedema: hmm I am working in haXe.. I might have to change my wordings
[17:03] JimBastard__: yeah
[17:03] JimBastard__: haxe looks cool, havent tried it
[17:03] tmedema: it's great
[17:05] JimBastard__: but yeah can .toString() on functions in JS
[17:05] JimBastard__: and it turns them back into code
[17:05] JimBastard__: im unsure what haxe is outputting though
[17:05] JimBastard__: how does that work? is it done at compile time? or does it autogenerate the js files and then you run them?
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[17:06] JimBastard__: is there a custom node build for haxe?
[17:07] tmedema: yes JimBastard__ blackdog is very active on it.. http://groups.google.com/group/haxe-nodejs/web/haxe-node-getting-started see that
[17:08] _announcer: Twitter: "@mrdoob did you say it was node.js for the server on the multiuser sketchpad?" -- Robert O 'Rourke. http://twitter.com/sanchothefat/status/17733062013
[17:09] JimBastard__: rgr
[17:10] malkomalko: coffeescript all the way 
[17:10] Sembiance: geez firefox's CSS transform rotation produces ultra shitty results compared to webkit browsers. Even opera kicks firefox's ass here.
[17:10] Sembiance: Guess firefox users will just have to put up with jaggies :)
[17:10] JimBastard__: sup malkomalko 
[17:11] malkomalko: howdidly 
[17:11] JimBastard__: i dunno why, but i like JS over CF
[17:11] JimBastard__: probably because i enjoy pain
[17:11] malkomalko: yah, you love pain
[17:11] malkomalko: I saw some dickhead walking around with a life is pain tattoo
[17:11] malkomalko: was that you?
[17:11] malkomalko: :)
[17:12] JimBastard__: i do most of my coding in firebug on github.com anyway
[17:12] JimBastard__: so until firebug can read CF >.<
[17:13] malkomalko: I program in a 24px fontsize inconsolata
[17:13] malkomalko: started going to the super big font sizes a while ago and now I can't go back
[17:13] JimBastard__: i use this as my keyboard
[17:13] JimBastard__: http://www.geeks3d.com/public/jegx/200808/keyboard-for-real-coder-big.jpg
[17:13] JimBastard__: i cant tell if you are joking about the 24px
[17:13] malkomalko: not
[17:14] JimBastard__: thats a little crazy
[17:14] JimBastard__: i need to be able to see a certain amount of lines on the screen
[17:14] JimBastard__: i would think 24px font would limit that
[17:14] malkomalko: I can see 30 lines
[17:14] malkomalko: and it forces me not to go over 80 columns
[17:14] JimBastard__: on my laptop i get around 50
[17:14] JimBastard__: you got a big screen?
[17:14] malkomalko: oh it's big alright
[17:14] JimBastard__: word
[17:15] JimBastard__: :-)
[17:15] malkomalko: :D
[17:15] JimBastard__: what you working on today? anything interesting?
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[17:15] malkomalko: I wrote a node library to integrate with the search engine marketing apis yesterday
[17:16] malkomalko: very short but able to query google adwords
[17:16] JimBastard__: o?
[17:16] JimBastard__: got ya
[17:16] malkomalko: boring
[17:16] JimBastard__: im thinking of working on JSONloops today
[17:16] JimBastard__: ive been hesitant to get it working in the browser, because i know its gonna be too much latency
[17:16] JimBastard__: but until i actually do it, there is hope
[17:17] JimBastard__: im like right there too ahaha
[17:17] malkomalko: what's the idea for JSONloops?
[17:17] JimBastard__: ohh did you not see?
[17:17] malkomalko: I wanna do a multi player platform game
[17:17] JimBastard__: http://github.com/Marak/JSONloops/blob/master/node-demo.js
[17:17] JimBastard__: (this track is mostly empty on the repo, got another one locally)
[17:17] JimBastard__: http://github.com/Marak/JSONloops/blob/master/loops/nyc.json
[17:18] JimBastard__: the metronome track is a good test
[17:18] JimBastard__: if you have mac os you can clone and run demo
[17:18] JimBastard__: the metronome barely keeps time on my machine
[17:18] JimBastard__: im using afplay for now......need a real audio pipe
[17:19] malkomalko: hmmm
[17:19] malkomalko: there's gotta be a nice way
[17:19] JimBastard__: i gotta yell at tmpvar too, he refactored my looping algo and he broke it a bit
[17:19] JimBastard__: i might have to revert to the ugly one
[17:19] JimBastard__: malkomalko: openal or libao or something else
[17:19] JimBastard__: people have been looking into it
[17:19] JimBastard__: a bit
[17:20] JimBastard__: but no one has given me a pipe yet
[17:20] malkomalko: I got a pipe right now
[17:20] malkomalko: it's too hot to go outside
[17:20] malkomalko: challah!
[17:20] JimBastard__: i mean i got a L in my mouth
[17:20] JimBastard__: but thats a diffirent story
[17:24] JimBastard__: but yeah, malkomalko i have a few good ideas for getting this JS sequencer working. i think a web frontend using raphael and then it can work over the web or to a locally running node instance
[17:24] JimBastard__: using browser audio for over the web, and a direct pipe for local
[17:24] JimBastard__: node might be awesome for an audio sequencer if i can actually get a solid BPM going
[17:25] malkomalko: I did that demo using osc
[17:25] malkomalko: built a web interface to control my ableton live set
[17:25] malkomalko: was looking to do a thing with web sockets
[17:26] malkomalko: throw it on top and do a live set where people can mix your set
[17:26] malkomalko: and do a streaming audio interface back out so people can hear what they are doing
[17:28] JimBastard__: so like
[17:28] JimBastard__: osc is something else all together
[17:28] benburkert has joined the channel
[17:28] JimBastard__: i wanted to just build a pure javascript looper that run on JSON
[17:28] JimBastard__: pretty mucha  sampler + sequencer for wav files
[17:29] malkomalko: yah, I got it
[17:29] JimBastard__: something really small and simple
[17:29] malkomalko: I dig it
[17:29] JimBastard__: i think integration with other digital music technologies is good though
[17:29] JimBastard__: just not my first goal with this
[17:30] JimBastard__: also, my knowledge of OSC and maxmsp etc is pretty weak
[17:30] JimBastard__: i could definitely use a crash course or two 
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[17:30] malkomalko: osc is simple
[17:31] JimBastard__: i know binary42 is into this stuff
[17:31] malkomalko: it just looks like an html route
[17:31] JimBastard__: i havent used any that stuff yet, just lots of MIDI and VSTs and Cubase and protools
[17:31] JimBastard__: and some other random tools
[17:31] JimBastard__: COOLEDIT
[17:32] JimBastard__: but yeah malkomalko , if you can figure out how to play a 24bit stereo interlaced wave file from node with < 20ms latency i'll give you 100 internet dollars
[17:33] malkomalko: why try to shoot for 24 bit waves?
[17:33] malkomalko: those things are big
[17:33] JimBastard__: and +15 points
[17:33] malkomalko: even if they are just short hits
[17:33] JimBastard__: well, i have a large library of tracks
[17:33] JimBastard__: and samples
[17:33] JimBastard__: most of which are 24 bit 
[17:33] malkomalko: ok
[17:34] JimBastard__: to my understanding you can hear the difference between 16 bit and 24 bit, but i dunno if i can >.<
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[17:35] JimBastard__: im not really worried about file size though, everything will prob get preloaded and cached 
[17:35] JimBastard__: and its on the "server"
[17:35] JimBastard__: for the browser we might do mp3 in a SWF i dunno
[17:35] malkomalko: brb
[17:35] JimBastard__: kk
[17:36] Kiba: why do they even have the CAP key?
[17:36] Kiba: nobody use the CAP key
[17:36] Kiba: I can't use the right side
[17:36] JimBastard__: I DUNNO
[17:37] Kiba: cool
[17:37] Kiba: I accidently discovered a cool emacs feature
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[17:38] Kiba: wrong channel
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[17:46] syaramak: hi all - this may've been asked before but is there an adapter for oracle in the works?
[17:50] syaramak: 
ACTION ping #node.js

[17:51] _announcer: Twitter: "node-ugly allows node.js to run PHP code. Great name. http://github.com/felixge/node-ugly" -- Jon Suderman. http://twitter.com/suderman/status/17735289241
[17:52] JimBastard__: syaramak: lol
[17:53] JimBastard__: syaramak: do you mean like the oracle in the matrix? or do you mean that database?
[17:53] syaramak: JimBastard hehe
[17:53] syaramak: the one in the matrix
[17:53] JimBastard__: yeah im on it
[17:53] mscdex: afaik nobody's working on an oracle binding
[17:53] JimBastard__: as for the DB, im not sure i heard anybody working on that
[17:54] syaramak: ok thanks
[17:55] _announcer: Twitter: "Messing around with Node.js and HTTP http://phpc.in/10hij5" -- Amit Singh. http://twitter.com/onlyPHP/status/17735495794
[17:55] syaramak: any ideas how easy / hard it'd be to write one? :)
[17:56] syaramak: i assume we'd have to use threading, no?
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[17:58] JimBastard__: syaramak: i dunno man....ive managed to stay away from oracle my entire career 
[17:58] JimBastard__: maybe you should post on the mailing list?
[17:58] syaramak: 
ACTION envies JimBastard

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[17:59] syaramak: hm i'll do that. thanks for your help.
[17:59] syaramak: what db do you use, btw?
[17:59] mscdex: depending on how far you want to go, you could create an oracle module/binding that's written using pure JS
[17:59] mscdex: :P
[18:00] mscdex: then it'd be completely async and wouldn't need to worry about threads
[18:00] syaramak: mscdex: really, we can do that?
[18:01] mscdex: syaramak: sure, but you have to know about the protocol oracle uses between client and server heh
[18:01] mscdex: syaramak: there's a couple projects out there that have that do exactly this for mysql
[18:02] mscdex: node-mysql and nodejs-mysql-native
[18:03] mscdex: but as far as commonly used databases go, lots of people use NoSQL stores like redis, mongodb, and couchdb
[18:03] mscdex: there's also postgres and sqlite bindings
[18:03] syaramak: mscdex: interesting
[18:03] mscdex: syaramak: http://wiki.github.com/ry/node/modules#database
[18:04] mscdex: for a complete listing -^
[18:04] syaramak: thanks i'll take a look. great link.
[18:07] syaramak: oracle may be an interesting beast - all apps that talk over the wire seem to use de facto OCI comm library 
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[18:10] mscdex: and oracle's protocol is proprietary, so the docs for it are not publicly available
[18:10] mscdex: :\
[18:11] mscdex: that's probably why there isn't any async oracle bindings for node
[18:11] mscdex: heh
[18:11] mscdex: to get access to the docs you apparently need to become an oracle partner and pony up ~$100k
[18:12] syaramak: hehe that's a ridiculously small amount
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[18:13] syaramak: anyways
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[18:15] syaramak: mscdex:  would it be possible to use node's thread pool for creating an oracle binding
[18:16] mscdex: yes, you could do that
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[18:19] syaramak: mscdex: can you give me some pointers for that? or is the codeline the best place to start looking?
[18:21] syaramak: deps/coupling?
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[18:22] mscdex: not sure, i've never had to write something where it came to using the thread pool before
[18:22] mscdex: you might search the mailing list though
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[18:27] micheil: syaramak: try looking into libeio, and the sqlite binding
[18:28] micheil: although, I do remember ryah mentioning something about some libraries should be managing their own threadpool, as to not overload node's internal one (through libev and libeio)
[18:28] micheil: also, look into libev
[18:29] syaramak: micheil: ya, was just starting ot look into libeio
[18:30] _announcer: Twitter: "express framework for node.js - lightweight framework for node. http://ow.ly/17ZTm0" -- Javascript News. http://twitter.com/del_javascript/status/17737277884
[18:30] syaramak: this thread is interesting - http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs/browse_thread/thread/aff97d25c59f6f2d
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[18:38] _announcer: Twitter: "there will be a #nodejs meetup with @ryah in cologne on tuesday!! We'll met at 7:00 p.m. @cowoco who's coming? http://bit.ly/9tu33k" -- Oleg Podsechin. http://twitter.com/olegpodsechin/status/17737663388
[18:40] syaramak: mscdex: thanks your help
[18:40] syaramak: micheil: thank you
[18:40] syaramak: later people
[18:40] micheil: no worries, and good luck
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[18:48] _announcer: Twitter: "# MySQL connector for # nodejs node-mysql-libmysqlclient and discussion asynchronous API: http://bit.ly/aXhHBM" [ru] -- Oleg Efimov. http://twitter.com/SannisDev/status/17738120865
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[18:51] _announcer: Twitter: "Messing around with Node.js and HTTP « Giant Flying Saucer http://bit.ly/aWovxf" -- deepak_kumar. http://twitter.com/deepak_kumar/status/17738256782
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[19:06] jamescarr: hmmm
[19:06] jamescarr: crypto.createHash('sha1').update(str).digest('base64') doesn't generate the sha1 hash I'd expect :(
[19:09] _announcer: Twitter: "Messing around with Node.js and HTTP: I've done a few articles/tutorials on using Node.js. Today though I'm goin... http://bit.ly/dnJu1A" -- GlobalTechNews. http://twitter.com/GlobalTechNews/status/17739138747
[19:13] jamescarr:  I needed to digest it in hex
[19:15] micheil: so, .digest("hex")
[19:15] micheil: jamescarr: that's almost a case of rtfm, but we're friendly here.
[19:17] jamescarr: yeah yeah, I was saying I figured out I was digesting it wrong ;)
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[19:32] _announcer: Twitter: "@igrigorik you've used node.js? what would you say between sinatra/thin and node? I like ruby but the ab-c 200 weighed to the node" -- dirs. http://twitter.com/dirs/status/17740167759
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[19:38] micheil: jamescarr: ah, okay, fair enough :)
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[19:42] jamescarr: amusingly enough my problems haven't been with node, it's been trying to follow the oauth steps correctly ;)
[19:42] maushu: I wonder if I should keep the sandboxes/processes running in the background even not in use.
[19:42] _announcer: Twitter: "@dirs em/twisted can do 2500 req/s with vanilla HTTP stacks. Node is faster.. but I'll take Ruby ecosystem over js rewrite anyday." -- Ilya Grigorik. http://twitter.com/igrigorik/status/17740653989
[19:43] jamescarr: @_announcer booo... 
[19:44] maushu: I need to talk to linux guys.
[19:44] _announcer: Twitter: "@dirs funny, I'm the opposite. I use ruby to do somethings in my Node.JS ecosystem but am slowly replacing with js equivalents" -- jamescarr. http://twitter.com/jamescarr/status/17740707947
[19:44] jamescarr: linux users?
[19:44] maushu: More like experts.
[19:46] maushu: Ok, lets try to enumerate advantages and disadvantages.
[19:46] maushu: By keeping the sandbox running in the background the "creation" of a sandbox should theorically be faster. It just needs to receive code.
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[19:47] jamescarr: yep
[19:47] maushu: But!
[19:47] jamescarr: theoretically it should be faster because it's already in memory
[19:47] maushu: If the sandbox crashes because of the code it would need to be recreated.
[19:47] jamescarr: yep
[19:47] maushu: And it should need to be recreated at the end?
[19:48] jamescarr: I'
[19:48] jamescarr: I'd guard against it crashing
[19:48] maushu: The global section might get dirty.
[19:49] maushu: jamescarr, not like crashing but more like infinite loops that need the sandbox to be destroyed and recreated.
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[19:49] jamescarr: ah
[19:49] tjholowaychuk: weee 
[19:49] maushu: To prevent infinite loops (and do the fixing thing) the checkbox needs to be checked.
[19:49] maushu: *sandbox
[19:49] maushu: Like every 20 seconds, like a ping.
[19:50] jamescarr: tjholowaychuk, working non-stop on connect.js?
[19:50] jamescarr: :)
[19:51] tjholowaychuk: jamescarr: nahh, working on tons of stuff
[19:51] tjholowaychuk: some secret projects
[19:51] tjholowaychuk: jade that i just released
[19:51] tjholowaychuk: but ya connect is a big one, its pretty much wrapped up though
[19:51] jamescarr: cool
[19:52] jamescarr: I've been meaning to ask... you using jspec+node.js with growl?
[19:52] tjholowaychuk: i have yup but not anymore im just using expresso
[19:52] tjholowaychuk: which thanks for reminding me i should add growl support to :D
[19:52] jamescarr: hehehehe
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[19:54] JimBastard__: roar
[19:54] tjholowaychuk: JimBastard__: roarararrrar
[19:55] JimBastard__: Salut King Neptune et son eau reniflards
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[20:37] pkrumins: what's the difference between Local<Value> and Handle<Value? they seem to be used interchangibly throughout c++ code
[20:41] jamescarr: sigh
[20:42] jamescarr: how the frak do you sign an oauth request for a token when the signature requires the private token???? ARGH...
[20:44] javajunky1: you using my library ?
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[20:44] jamescarr: nah, I'm doing this to learn node.js details
[20:45] jamescarr: and thought a little oauth authenticator might be an interesting library to drive learning some of the features better ;)
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[20:46] jamescarr: mediacoder?
[20:46] javajunky1: http://github.com/ciaranj/node-oauth
[20:47] javajunky1: well maybe some clues in what you need there, although there are a couple of holes in the api ;)
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[20:47] javajunky1: (my api that is)
[20:48] jamescarr: ah cool
[20:48] jamescarr: so... can you answer my problem? it makes me feel so noobish. Where the heck does the private token come from to sign the request if the request is explicitly to GET a token? :)
[20:49] jamescarr: the oauth spec makes it sound like it's something I should just magically have and combine with the consumer secret (which I do have) :)
[20:49] javajunky1: um which token, the request or the access.
[20:49] jamescarr: access?
[20:49] javajunky1: you need to get the request token first, 
[20:49] javajunky1: then you can use that to pass to get the access token.
[20:50] jamescarr: yeah!
[20:50] jamescarr: how do you get the request token?
[20:50] jamescarr: according to the api I have to hit the url to receive it...
[20:50] javajunky1: yrs
[20:50] javajunky1: and it is a signed request
[20:50] jamescarr: but the spec makes it sound like I need to sign the request for it
[20:50] javajunky1: just not including the token
[20:50] jamescarr: yet, how do I sign the request without the token?
[20:50] jamescarr: ah...
[20:51] jamescarr: so the key would just be...
[20:51] jamescarr: var key = querystring.escape(consumerKey) ?
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[20:53] javajunky1: um, no not really
[20:53] javajunky1: closer to consumerKey + "&"
[20:53] javajunky1: just take a look at that code, since it does all this already, probably an easier reference :)
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[20:59] jamescarr: ah I see
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[21:13] _announcer: Twitter: "W00t, isaacs helped me push node-xmpp to #npmjs, the #nodejs package manager." -- Astro. http://twitter.com/astro1138/status/17744540571
[21:13] isaacs: ^^ don't use nginx as a proxy, especially if you're using ssl
[21:13] isaacs: that is all.
[21:14] Tim_Smart: Haha yeah
[21:14] mscdex: isaacs: or websockets
[21:16] _announcer: Twitter: "So many mvc/MVP frameworks add helpers for #js (RoR, Lift etc). Why not do away with the helpers and put it all in a #Node.js framework?" -- Jonathan Prins. http://twitter.com/warfangle/status/17744671433
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[21:17] _announcer: Twitter: "http://www.blueskyonmars.com/ bespin is now build on jquery, and the guys are going to rebuild it in node.js.   @dangoor @bespin" -- Oleg Slobodskoi. http://twitter.com/oleg008/status/17744732516
[21:19] _announcer: Twitter: ""Hot reload for node.js servers on code change" #nodejs http://bit.ly/by32Pv" -- DracoBlue. http://twitter.com/DracoBlue/status/17744815790
[21:24] Sembiance: geez I'm having a tough time utilizing a new event emitter
[21:26] mscdex: ?
[21:27] Sembiance: mscdex: Sorry, just trying to figure out how to do custom events with node.js  It's pretty simple client side with YUI3, jquery or any other toolkit, but node.js certainly seems to have made it a little bit more complicated than it maybe needs to be :)
[21:28] mscdex: it's not that difficult... are you doing this in js or C?
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[21:29] Sembiance: mscdex: I figured it out. I tried to use it 'slightly' different than it intended and got very weird and cryptic errors. Using it as node intended yielded working code
[21:30] mscdex: heh ok
[21:31] Sembiance: mscdex: The bad code was:   var myEmitter = new EventEmitter();    exports.Y = { "on" : myEmitter.addListener, "fire" : myEmitter.emit };
[21:31] Sembiance: I'm breaking lots of stuff there, it was a bade idea to begin with
[21:31] Sembiance: :)
[21:34] Tim_Smart: Sembiance: Yeah.. You would need to bind the functions first.
[21:35] mscdex: heh
[21:36] mscdex: Sembiance: you know, EventEmitter.on exists on node/master
[21:36] mscdex: !api on
[21:36] _api: mscdex: (EventEmitter) method: on(event, listener) -- Adds a listener to the end of the listeners array for the specified event. [ http://nodejs.org/api.html#emitter-on-17 ]
[21:36] mscdex: :-)
[21:39] malkomalko has joined the channel
[21:43] isaacs: Sembiance: Why not just: var Y = new EventEmitter(); Y.fire = Y.emit; Y.on = Y.addListener;
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[21:47] _announcer: Twitter: "looking to move a project from djangode to something lighter and popular. thinking fab. suggestions? #nodejs" -- mmatuzak. http://twitter.com/mmatuzak/status/17746038432
[21:48] bradleymeck: grrr _utility's twitter got logged out
[21:49] mape: just have it reconnect on disconnect?
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[21:49] bradleymeck: its oauth its not always on
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[22:05] b_erb: cloudhead: some thoughts on cradle's performanche http://github.com/cloudhead/cradle/issues/issue/9
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[22:13] Vekz: Anyone have examples of a server side DOM manipulation and rendering that aren't YUI?
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[22:43] mape: Hmm
[22:43] mape: Kinda shoulda woulda coulda
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[22:47] mscdex: eh?
[22:49] mape: Nah just trying to find something to do
[22:49] Tim_Smart: Heh. You always end up with people drawing penises everywhere with this thing: http://mrdoob.com/lab/javascript/multiuserpad/
[22:49] mape: Hah, flattr
[22:49] mscdex: mape: have you worked any on dividing up the node docs and/or know if it'd be possible to have each of the examples in the html docs have an associated id attribute just like the headers do?
[22:50] mape: mscdex: actually yeah..
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[22:50] mape: pretty much done, they aren't separate though
[22:50] mape: em... bah 
[22:50] mape: there was a painting thing in canvas that was really cool.. not the multipart one..
[22:50] bradleymeck: anyone have a JS parser in JS?... dont want it run just parsed
[22:51] mape: with different brush styles..
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[22:53] mape: duh, http://mrdoob.com/120/Harmony
[22:53] mape: he did that one as well, why isn't that one the multi one?
[22:54] mape: way cooler
[22:54] inimino: bradleymeck: what's it for?  does it need to be fast?
[22:55] ben_alman has joined the channel
[22:55] bradleymeck: does not have to be fast but has to be sane, using it to try and impl some documentation generation parsing
[22:55] inimino: ah
[22:56] mscdex: the problem with the multiuserpad is that sketches aren't synchronized between refreshse
[22:56] mscdex: *refreshes
[22:57] mscdex: i think it would be better to keep the drawing in memory, send it out to those on connect, and then automatically erase the drawing pad after x minutes with a countdown timer on the page
[22:57] mscdex: or something
[22:58] inimino: bradleymeck: I have one here http://boshi.inimino.org/3box/asof/1270029991384/PEG/build/ES5.html , and you should look at Narcissus also
[23:00] bradleymeck: ty inimino ill take a look
[23:00] inimino: bradleymeck: there was also at some point an experimental V8 API, I don't know if it's still there
[23:01] mape: mscdex: but yeah, the sections will have anchors, and not sure if they will be separate sections
[23:01] mscdex: mape: sections?
[23:01] mape: shouldn't be to hard, unless it makes the docs harder to read
[23:01] mape: mscdex: yeah
[23:02] mscdex: mape: i thought the modules were the sections?
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[23:03] mape: mscdex: huh?
[23:03] mscdex: the html docs?
[23:03] mscdex: :S
[23:03] mape: they are generated from the markdown file
[23:03] mscdex: yeah
[23:03] mscdex: the html docs use the modules as sections
[23:04] mscdex: unless you mean something else
[23:04] mape: like the google api docs?
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[23:06] mscdex: i dunno, ryah just mentioned the other night about splitting the docs up into separate pages. i was mainly curious about the ability for the html output to set an id for the inline code examples, so they can be linked to like: nodejs.org/api.html#event-exit-example-1
[23:07] mscdex: or something like that
[23:07] mscdex: like the h2 and h3 tags can be linked to
[23:08] mape: have the timecode?
[23:08] mscdex: ?
[23:08] mape: when you talked about it
[23:09] mscdex: oh
[23:09] mscdex: erm
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[23:10] mscdex: 7:45 yesterday (according to the debuggable logs)
[23:10] mscdex: am
[23:11] mrdoob has joined the channel
[23:11] mape: so that probly doesn't help me at all since we are in different timezones?
[23:11] mape: :P
[23:12] mape: post a tiny line so I can grep?
[23:12] mrdoob: hallo
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[23:12] mape: mrdoob: hey, why not add the cool brushes to the real time demo? :)
[23:13] mrdoob: heh
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[23:13] mrdoob: I still don't know how that should work
[23:13] mape: isolate them?
[23:13] mrdoob: the result won't be the same in all screens
[23:14] mrdoob: nobody will have the same data
[23:14] mape: so my chrome brushe only reacts to my own drawings
[23:14] mrdoob: uhm, you mean like making everyone their own layer?
[23:14] mape: so can't do any of the neat interact with previous lines stuff?
[23:14] mape: yeah
[23:15] mrdoob: yeah, that could work
[23:15] mape: a lot more fun using those brushes since things actually end up looking like I'm good at what I do
[23:15] mrdoob: haha yeah
[23:15] mrdoob: yeah, I'll put that next
[23:15] mrdoob: I was trying to optimise a bit more the data transfer
[23:15] mrdoob: using deltas and stuff
[23:16] mape: Nice, someone should make a "node experiments"
[23:16] mape: so there is one place to find neat stuff
[23:17] mrdoob: hah, true
[23:17] mrdoob: I was just trying firefox 4
[23:18] mrdoob: good to see websockets working there too ^^
[23:18] mape: less crap?
[23:18] mrdoob: a shame it mobile safari doesn't support it
[23:18] mrdoob: would be nice on the ipad
[23:18] mape: it doesn't in iOS4?
[23:18] mrdoob: I don't think so
[23:18] mrdoob: got the iOS4 on the ipod touch
[23:18] mrdoob: no luck
[23:18] mape: hmm k
[23:19] Tim_Smart: Don't they have special touch events?
[23:19] mape: huh?
[23:19] mrdoob: yeah, but that's not the problem
[23:19] mape: they have ontouchstart and whatnot
[23:19] mape: but that won't help supporting websockets
[23:19] mrdoob: Tim_Smart, what dosn't work is that you don't see the other people
[23:19] Tim_Smart: iOS devices. And they have websockets.
[23:20] mrdoob: they do?
[23:20] mrdoob: didn't work on my iOS4 device
[23:20] mape: from what I heard they added it in the latest, but haven't tried so can't say for sure
[23:20] Tim_Smart: Hmm.. yeah iOS doesn't support it.
[23:20] Tim_Smart: It was supposed to...
[23:21] mscdex: mape: i meant 7:45 in http://nodejs.debuggable.com/2010-07-03.txt   but here is one line: [07:46] ryah: mscdex: mape is working on the doc page
[23:21] mape: ah thanks
[23:22] Tim_Smart: mrdoob: I'm working on a fork of socket.io that doesn't add overhead.
[23:22] mscdex: Tim_Smart: ollym started one
[23:22] mscdex: not a fork, but a rewrite
[23:22] Tim_Smart: mscdex: Right.
[23:23] mrdoob: Tim_Smart: Ah cool
[23:23] mscdex: Tim_Smart: http://github.com/ollym/node-io
[23:24] mrdoob: Glad that the experiment was helpful for socket.io in a way
[23:24] mape: Tim_Smart: make sure you add a short howto
[23:24] mrdoob: node-websocket-server seems to be doing quite well
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[23:24] mrdoob: the cpu hasn't reached more than 35%
[23:24] Tim_Smart: mrdoob: The data transfer it still quite high though.
[23:24] mrdoob: Yeah
[23:25] mrdoob: wanted to use deltas instead
[23:25] mrdoob: x:-1,y:2...
[23:25] mrdoob: instead of x:800,y:300
[23:25] mape: wouldn't that mean more cpu usage on the server?
[23:25] Tim_Smart: Just need to optimize the number of commands sent
[23:26] Tim_Smart: mape: The server is just a broadcaster.
[23:26] mrdoob: mape, yeah, I guess
[23:26] Tim_Smart: Dishes out the commands sent by the client
[23:26] mrdoob: depends of if I store the positions
[23:26] mrdoob: right now I'm not doing it
[23:26] Tim_Smart: I wouldn't bother with state
[23:27] mrdoob: Tim_Smart, bu mape is right, the server should know the position without deltas
[23:27] mrdoob: otherwise you won't have the reference position to add deltas to
[23:27] mrdoob: if you connect just now
[23:27] mrdoob: tricky...
[23:28] Tim_Smart: mrdoob: Just have "key frames"
[23:28] mrdoob: good point
[23:28] _announcer: Twitter: "*Finally* have some time to start digging into node.js.  Going to use it to power my latest pet project." -- Thomas Mayfield. http://twitter.com/thegreatape/status/17750769681
[23:28] Tim_Smart: Mouse down, up etc would send the true position
[23:28] mrdoob: yep
[23:29] mrdoob: yeah, will do that, ignore until there is a absolute position
[23:29] mrdoob: need to setup the new commands
[23:33] mape: like video encoding
[23:33] mape: watch out for the patent trolls ;)
[23:34] mrdoob: haha
[23:34] mrdoob: i won't call them b-frames
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[23:37] Tim_Smart: They need a law that states "if a patent does not have proof of implementation within x days of filing, it is declared null and void"
[23:38] isaacs: Tim_Smart: that'd make it hard to patent things that take longer than X days to build
[23:38] Tim_Smart: Or get rid of patents all together
[23:38] isaacs: Tim_Smart: now you're talkin.
[23:38] isaacs: as long as there ARE patents, then that's the rules of the game, and anything that limits them will probably end up making some particular sort of innovations at a disadvantage.
[23:38] Tim_Smart: isaacs: Well 'x' would be settle on agreement or something.
[23:39] isaacs: Tim_Smart: agreement by whom?  there's no good answer there.
[23:39] Tim_Smart: yeah. Destroy patents is a better idea.
[23:39] isaacs: i'm of the opinion that this is just one of many problems with the patent system.
[23:39] isaacs: there are many ways to monetize innovation without monopolization
[23:39] Tim_Smart: patents are really relevant anymore.
[23:40] isaacs: oh, they're very relevant.
[23:40] isaacs: they're not sensible, but they're relevant.
[23:40] Tim_Smart: Well, sensible is what I meant :)
[23:40] isaacs: i mean, it makes sense to get them – you kinda have to – but the system is crazy
[23:40] isaacs: so many ways to abuse it, so much bullshit
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