[00:00] isaacs: creationix:  npm tag haml-js 0.2.4 stable
[00:00] creationix: ahh
[00:00] isaacs: (or whatever other tag you wanna give it, any string is acceptable)
[00:00] isaacs: but "stable" is the default magic tag
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[00:01] isaacs: there should be an auto-tag that works like auto-activate, i think
[00:01] creationix: sweet, I've got a package in the registry
[00:01] isaacs: hooray!!
[00:01] creationix: for now, I've got it working with nvm bt making my $HOME/.node_libraries be a symlink to my $NODE_PATH
[00:02] creationix: and in fact, this is the only way to work with textmate since it gets it's env from finder
[00:02] creationix: (nvm and textmate that is)
[00:03] creationix: hmm, I see the package name needs to match the require name, not my github name
[00:06] inimino: JimBastard: oh, ok good
[00:07] JimBastard: lol
[00:07] JimBastard: thats a great irc prank
[00:07] JimBastard: i heard you if say "JimBastard" three times really fast in a row he'll come online and k line you
[00:08] JimBastard: it has to be copy paste though, like really really fast
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[00:23] mikeal: so
[00:23] mikeal: what is the best module currently for working with xml?
[00:23] mikeal: i've seen a ton come and go
[00:24] mikeal: does anyone have that jsdom stuff working with jquery yet?
[00:26] isaacs: mikeal: jsdom if you need fancy, sax-js if you need lean
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[00:26] robinduckett: bawww
[00:26] robinduckett: shit
[00:26] robinduckett: no space left
[00:26] isaacs: mikeal: if you need even more fancy, check out the yui3 node stuff
[00:26] mikeal: doesn't have to be fast, just needs to be easy
[00:26] robinduckett: i'mma wipe my phone. I demand nodejs on iphone
[00:27] mikeal: nothing fancy, just gotta parse some xml 
[00:27] robinduckett: uh
[00:27] robinduckett: woops
[00:27] robinduckett: Robins-iPhone:/ root# rm -rf usr
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[00:30] robinduckett: well that's fucked it
[00:31] jsilver: hey guys
[00:32] jsilver: what do you think of this idea for NodeJS
[00:32] jsilver: a data gathering interface that hits a bunch of APIs, feeds whatever, coupled with an front-end HTTP server (using node) that processes and displays the data
[00:33] jsilver: i want it to be able to handle the load of tons of incoming & outgoing information so I think node is the right fit
[00:34] joshowens: Can anyone help a newb out?  I can't figure out why my code only works once: http://gist.github.com/392869
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[00:36] isaacs: mikeal: if you are cool with the sax style, sax-js is pretty stable.
[00:37] isaacs: mikeal: if you wanna go myParsedObject = parser(myXMLString) then sax is not a good fit.
[00:37] mikeal: actually, i think i just found a JSON api for the server i need to talk to :)
[00:37] mikeal: and i'm all too happy not to be dicking around with xml
[00:38] isaacs: mikeal: awesoime
[00:38] isaacs: mikeal: i should build something with sax that turns xml into a simplexml-like object.
[00:39] mikeal: i did that in Python
[00:39] mikeal: there are some odd edge cases to deal with
[00:39] isaacs: ha, that's any time xml is involved.
[00:39] isaacs: it's nothing BUT edge cases
[00:39] isaacs: mikeal: can you send me the json and the corresponding xml for the server you're talking to?
[00:40] isaacs: it'd be interesting to see what this minidom would kinda look like.
[00:40] mikeal: blog.couch.io/rss
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[00:40] mikeal: blog.couch.io/api/read/json
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[00:41] isaacs: ew
[00:41] isaacs: someone should tell tumblr what json is
[00:41] isaacs: var tumblr_api_read = 
[00:41] JimBastard_: damn indexzero took over my laptop and is writing IEnumerable.js right now
[00:41] isaacs: that's not json
[00:42] JimBastard_: Array.some() wrapped up nicely :-D
[00:42] JimBastard_: take that M$ fanboys!
[00:43] isaacs: mikeal: wow, they're not even *trying* to make these two data feeds reflect each other.
[00:43] isaacs: this is not "rss converted to json"
[00:43] mikeal: haha, probably not :)
[00:43] mikeal: well, actuall
[00:43] mikeal: it is a different api
[00:43] isaacs: it's "a database converted into two different things in two different ways"
[00:43] mikeal: try /api/read
[00:43] isaacs: oh, ok
[00:43] mikeal: to see XML for that api
[00:43] isaacs: http://blog.couch.io/api/read/xml
[00:44] isaacs: yeah, that makes more sene
[00:44] isaacs: *sense
[00:44] isaacs: looks like they just make attribs and child tags go in the same object space.
[00:44] isaacs: not clear what you'd get if you did <foo bar="baz"><bar>baz2</bar></foo>
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[00:49] nym: hi!
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[01:56] devinus: o.m.g.
[01:57] devinus: this dude wrote "Professional Havascript"???
[01:57] devinus: JavaScript*
[01:57] devinus: http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2009/04/13/computer-science-in-javascript-linked-list/
[01:57] devinus: take a look at the add method
[01:57] devinus: >.<
[01:59] ChrisPartridge: Maybe he will write a book on nodejs ;-)
[02:00] devinus: ok good
[02:01] devinus: this is singly linked list
[02:01] devinus: >.<
[02:01] JimBastard: lol
[02:02] devinus: i had read read more of the code :]
[02:02] JimBastard: if you want some serious js cs stuff you should look at jslinq
[02:02] devinus: JimBastard: haha i did it looks awesome
[02:02] devinus: JimBastard: i also saw you trolled into oblivion on /r/programming
[02:03] inimino: man, I read that whole function just to come back here and see "<devinus> this is singly linked list"
[02:03] devinus: inimino: tehehe
[02:04] devinus: god
[02:04] devinus: fucking fruit flies everywhere
[02:05] KungFuHamster: something rotten in the state of denmark
[02:05] devinus: damn their fast incubation period
[02:05] devinus: i have no idea where these demons are spawning
[02:06] creationix: probably from process pid 1
[02:06] mscdex: huhu
[02:07] JimBastard: yeah i do that devinus 
[02:07] JimBastard: it happens
[02:07] creationix: devinus: we had a ton of them and then I discovered some over ripe banannas behind some stuff
[02:07] JimBastard: ienumerable
[02:07] JimBastard: just got the stub up
[02:07] JimBastard: gonna start rewriting the lib for lazy eval
[02:07] JimBastard: im soo lazy when i eval my data collections you have no idea
[02:07] devinus: JimBastard: nah, it was those trolls on /r/programming
[02:08] devinus: JimBastard: i cant even read /r/programming these days
[02:08] JimBastard: i aint iterating one step more then i have to
[02:08] JimBastard: reddit was fucked that day, the site was unresponsive and losing all my replies
[02:08] JimBastard: it went down for a full day or so
[02:08] JimBastard: still fucked up
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[02:17] mscdex: lazy eval ftw
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[02:43] tmpvar: hello
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[02:47] creationix: tmpvar: hi
[02:47] creationix: I'm still trying to figure out how to read files as buffers
[02:48] creationix: I know that the secret is fs.readStream and padding it a buffer to use somehow
[02:48] creationix: s/padding/passing/
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[03:03] creationix: strange, calling fs.readStream causes my code to abort, but there is no exception or output of any kind
[03:05] creationix: the server doesn't crash, but it closes the connection to the browser
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[03:29] Azeroth-Working: hrmm anyone no how to avoid this 'Error: ECONNRESET, Connection reset by peer' when working with tcp?
[03:30] Azeroth-Working: is crashing out my program when a client disconnects incorrectly
[03:32] Azeroth-Working: http://gist.github.com/393011
[03:32] saikat: i'm trying to use redis-node-client
[03:33] saikat: but i can't figure out how to get a value for a key, modify that value, and then set that modified value back as the value for the key
[03:33] saikat: i have client.get(key, function(err, value) { //do some stuff with value now what? }
[03:33] fictorial: hey
[03:33] saikat: hey fictorial
[03:33] fictorial: client.set 
[03:33] saikat: i'm probably missing something really obvious
[03:34] saikat: but i don't have access to the original key
[03:34] saikat: that i got
[03:34] saikat: in the callback for client.get
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[03:34] saikat: i want to set the value back on the key that i originally called client.get on
[03:35] fictorial: use a var for the key.
[03:35] phazm: you have it in the 'key' variable, as far as referencing goes for your code
[03:35] saikat: i'm doing this in a loop though
[03:36] saikat: so won't that key var get set to something else
[03:36] joshowens: anyone have a minute to help me understand node.js?
[03:36] saikat: before my async callbacks are called?
[03:36] joshowens: I have some code that works the first time, but not for the second request
[03:36] joshowens: http://gist.github.com/392869
[03:36] saikat: fictorial: this is the code i have right now: http://gist.github.com/393017
[03:36] saikat: obviously, the sys.puts(keys[i]) is undefined
[03:37] saikat: would i do var key = keys[i] in the context right above redisClient.get?  
[03:37] phazm: saikat: var key = 'my:key'; client.get(key, function(err, value) { key += 'appended';  client.set(key, function(err, value) { if(!err) { success! } }}
[03:37] fictorial: why is that obviously undefined actually?
[03:37] phazm: er
[03:37] joshowens: saikat: this might be a decent example of redis client: http://github.com/technoweenie/wheres-waldo
[03:37] phazm: scrap that
[03:38] fictorial: http://github.com/fictorial/redis-node-client/blob/master/test/test.js too :)
[03:38] saikat: fictorial: yeah i've been using test.js so far
[03:38] saikat: to figure things out
[03:38] fictorial: good, that is one of its roles in life
[03:39] saikat: maybe not obvious, but that sys.puts prints a bunch of undefineds
[03:39] phazm: s/key +=/response +=/
[03:39] saikat: phazm: but if i do a set in that function, won't it end up setting my values all on the same key?
[03:39] saikat: since i'm doing this in a loop?
[03:40] saikat: well to answer my question, it does
[03:40] saikat: if i put a "var key = keys[i];" before my redisClient.get
[03:40] saikat: and then "sys.puts(key)" inside my get callback
[03:40] saikat: it prints the last key a bunch of times
[03:41] fictorial: makes sense
[03:41] fictorial: you are calling get in a loop, firing off I/O that will callback later... but in the interim, you are moving on in the loop.
[03:41] saikat: yeah
[03:41] saikat: exactly
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[03:42] saikat: i'm wondering what the proper way to be doing what i'm doing should be
[03:42] fictorial: by the time your callback fires, i=count-1.
[03:42] saikat: yep
[03:42] saikat: which is why
[03:42] saikat: keys[i] = undefined
[03:42] saikat: actually
[03:42] saikat: by the time my callback fires
[03:42] saikat: i = count
[03:42] saikat: because the loop has ended
[03:42] saikat: and that's why undefined
[03:43] phazm: maybe I don't understand... why can't you put the [i] IN the loop, not before?
[03:43] phazm: var key = ['key:1','key:2','key:3','key:4','key:5']; for(var i=0;i<5;i++){ client.get(key[i], function(err, value) { response += 'appended';  client.set(key[i], function(err, value) { if(!err) { success! } }}}
[03:43] phazm: untested, but it seems like that i would be accurate
[03:43] saikat: phazm: that is what i'm doing
[03:43] saikat: in your example, the loop will finish
[03:43] saikat: and THEN all the callbacks get called
[03:44] saikat: and key[i] doesn't mean what you want it to mean in the context of those callbacks
[03:44] phazm: I'm doing it in my script, one sec, let me see what I used
[03:44] fictorial: yes, you can certainly use a stack.. that's how redis-node-client actually works internally.
[03:44] fictorial: push in the loop before get, pop in the callback
[03:44] saikat: yeah
[03:45] saikat: that's what i was thinking of doing
[03:45] phazm: ah, I pass the [i] off to a function -- processAuction(items[0], priceToPennies(items[1]), items[2], items[3]);
[03:45] saikat: does node have partials?
[03:45] saikat: that would be another way to solve this
[03:45] saikat: i guess javascript has partials right?
[03:45] fictorial: define: partials
[03:45] fictorial: :)
[03:45] fictorial: currying?
[03:45] saikat: no, partials =)
[03:46] saikat: i believe they are different
[03:46] fictorial: define: partials then :)
[03:46] saikat: if i have a function function(foo, bar, x)
[03:46] thrashaholic: fictorial: about to dive into nodered, looks good :)
[03:46] saikat: i can get a new function x = partial(otherfunction(1))
[03:46] saikat: and x now takes two args
[03:47] phazm: saikat: I'd like to know (for my sake, in case I'm doing it wrong) what the drawback is to my implementation?
[03:47] fictorial: yeah that's currying if I'm following -- yes, that would solve your problem as well, and I think that's what phazm was talking about when he said he was passing [i] off to a function... in essence, these are both creating new scopes which is not modified.
[03:48] thrashaholic: go scope go
[03:48] saikat: fictorial: it's not quite currying
[03:48] saikat: http://www.uncarved.com/blog/not_currying.mrk
[03:49] saikat: but yeah we all agree =)
[03:49] phazm: perhaps that is a blocking implementation -- I sometimes find that my script hiccups during that point, but I assumed it was due to to another http call I was making to a fairly large page
[03:50] saikat: phazm: so the callback you are sending to client.get is processAuction?
[03:50] saikat: or rather
[03:51] saikat: actually i'm not sure how that actually is working in the context of the .get callback
[03:51] saikat: er, i mean
[03:51] saikat: how you are using it
[03:51] phazm: for (i = 0; i < auctionLength; i = i + 1) { processAuction(items[0], priceToPennies(items[1]), items[2], items[3]); } .... function processAuction(getAuctionId, getPrice, getBidder, getTimeLeft) { client.get('site:' + siteId + ':auctions:' + getAuctionId + ':id', function (err, response) { ...})}
[03:52] creationix: _ry, I'm writing a buffer based version of fs.readFile and I have a question about implementation
[03:52] fictorial has joined the channel
[03:52] phazm: saikat: does that help?
[03:52] saikat: i think so, one sec - parsing it =)
[03:52] fictorial: limechat just ate it. sorry.
[03:52] creationix: I'm thinking it would be faster to fs.stat the file first to get the size, and then read that all into one buffer in one shot?
[03:53] saikat: phazm: you are incrementing i but not sending i to processAuction?
[03:53] fictorial: phazm: yes, if you call another function then do the work there you are effectively locking in the value in some other scope so that's fine
[03:53] saikat: are those supposed to be items[i], items[i+1], etc?
[03:53] phazm: procesAuction doesn't know you're in a loop -- it just gets the values from each item in the array
[03:54] fictorial: saikat: interesting I did think these partials was currying
[03:54] fictorial: als
[03:54] saikat: yeah i did too for a long time
[03:54] fictorial: alas
[03:54] saikat: but on the bright side, i think JS hase native support for partials but not currying
[03:54] phazm: 
ACTION has no idea what parials or currying is :-/

[03:54] fictorial: you want "partials" then really for this... or just use a stack.
[03:54] saikat: yeah
[03:54] saikat: thanks a lot fictorial, phazm =)
[03:55] phazm: glad I could help
[03:55] fictorial: for (...) { (function (k) { client.get(k, function (...) {}) })(keys[i]) } would work I think.
[03:56] joshowens: anyone have any ideas on my code only working the first try? http://gist.github.com/392869
[03:56] fictorial: but that's a little weird :)
[03:56] fictorial: saikat: glad to help :)
[03:57] saikat: fictorial: one more question - i didn't see it anywhere but thought i would ask - there isn't any way to do what i'm doing synchronously is there?
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[03:57] fictorial: serially?
[03:58] fictorial: wait for i-1 to finish before doing i?
[03:58] saikat: well, without callbacks
[03:58] fictorial: oh, no, that's the Node Way
[03:58] saikat: synchronous calls like the node readFileSync
[03:58] Azeroth-Working: hrmm anyone no how to avoid this 'Error: ECONNRESET, Connection reset by peer' when working with tcp? is crashing out my program when a client disconnects incorrectly. http://gist.github.com/393011
[03:58] saikat: it's just, trying to populate my redis DB like this
[03:58] saikat: makes node take up about as memory as my entire DB
[03:58] saikat: before filling up the DB
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[03:59] fictorial: I wonder if you have cycles in your references or if GC is not kicking in or some-such?
[03:59] creationix: _ry: https://gist.github.com/7d3174e77e6425cbdf88
[03:59] fictorial: or are you holding onto references to everything somehow?
[03:59] saikat: hm shouldn't be - the code i posted earlier is all i have in this script
[04:00] saikat: there could be a leak in node-compress
[04:00] saikat: taking that part out seems to reduce memory
[04:00] saikat: a lot
[04:00] phazm: just throw a flushall in there, seems to free up a bunch of memory ;)
[04:00] saikat: node.flushall?
[04:00] phazm: kidding.
[04:00] saikat: heh i wouldn't have minded it =)
[04:01] phazm: that erases your db -- or stores it in a file and erases or something, not sure
[04:01] saikat: oh right heh
[04:02] fictorial: well that's on the remote redis db -- you are talking about the local node.js memory usage.
[04:02] saikat: yeah
[04:02] saikat: well let me actually get the code working at all first
[04:02] saikat: and then i'll come bother people again
[04:03] fictorial has joined the channel
[04:03] fictorial: 
ACTION loathes every IRC client.

[04:03] saikat: oh you disconnected - was just saying that i'll mess around a bit more before bugging you guys again, thanks fictorial =)
[04:03] fictorial: I was just going to grab the logs on debuggable :)
[04:04] fictorial: I haven't used node-compress... can you reuse the object?
[04:04] phazm: fictorial: if you find a good one, let me know -- I'm using chatzilla, and my firefox is prone to crashing (might have something to do with my 90 addons... but I need them ALL!) and haven't found a suitable replacement yet
[04:04] saikat: i'm not actually sure - i'll have to see
[04:04] fictorial: I like LimeChat.  The problem was PEBKAC.
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[04:05] phazm: ahh, okay
[04:05] phazm: I'll give that a shot
[04:05] _ry: we desperately need to write an irc client in node
[04:05] phazm: ah, would probably help if I had a mac.
[04:05] _ry: i also loath every irc client
[04:05] fictorial: saikat: I only mention that because you say that mem usage drops a lot when taking about the compression.
[04:06] fictorial: s/about/out/
[04:06] saikat: yeah, i should see if i can do that
[04:06] saikat: using one object would definitely drop the memory at least some
[04:06] saikat: _ry: isn't one of the popular web clients using node now?
[04:06] saikat: plurk or something
[04:06] _ry: i dont think that's an irc client
[04:07] saikat: ah nevermind then
[04:07] fictorial: plurk uses everything new under the sun in a slightly strange way just to blog about it. :)
[04:07] Azeroth-IsWorkin has joined the channel
[04:07] _ry: seriously- where is the web irc clients..
[04:08] phazm: let's abandon IRC and just use http://chat.nodejitsu.com/
[04:08] _ry: s/is/are/
[04:08] saikat: wait, i didn't mean plurk, i meant mibbit, and i meant websockets not node
[04:08] _ry: we need more apps
[04:08] fictorial: _ry: banned for flooding likely :)
[04:08] mrjjwright has joined the channel
[04:08] _ry: and by apps i mean cool demos :)
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[04:09] fictorial: throw out some ideas!
[04:10] _ry: take http://chat.nodejitsu.com/ and merge it with http://tinyurl.com/ircd-js
[04:10] _ry: for example
[04:11] _ry: (/me has been trying to convince scott to do it)
[04:11] fictorial: well if you go that route you don't really need an irc client from the client side right?  you just need a pubsub system.
[04:11] phazm: saikat: Connections via mibbit are no longer supported on freenode. You may wish to consider using http://webchat.freenode.net instead. Further information over at http://bit.ly/19JILF
[04:11] fictorial: phazm: ding! 
[04:11] saikat: heh
[04:12] saikat: any irc client that is too easy to use attracts too many people who won't put up with hard to use irc clients
[04:12] saikat: and gets banned
[04:12] saikat: no way around it
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[04:12] _ry: no - i want it to be an irc server itself
[04:12] _ry: so you can connect to it with an irc client
[04:12] _ry: or through http
[04:12] Azeroth-IsWorkin: is preeettty
[04:13] fictorial: _ry: ok that's different. what is missing from the ircd-js then?
[04:13] phazmwebchat: hrm
[04:13] _ry: it just need to be merged with the long poll server
[04:13] phazmwebchat: I think I prefer chatzilla
[04:13] _ry: would be a great demo
[04:13] fictorial: Azeroth-IsWorkin: yes, the CSS on that chat demo is absolutely stunning.
[04:13] _ry: maybe even useful
[04:14] fictorial: what happens to messages sent while the lp client reconnects? does the server buffer have a mru cache per channel?
[04:14] fictorial: er, lru
[04:15] tmpvar has joined the channel
[04:15] _ry: lur?
[04:15] _ry: lru?
[04:16] _ry: least recently used? yeah sure
[04:16] fictorial: least recently used -- does the long poll server drop the least recently used / eldest messages?
[04:16] fictorial: k
[04:16] _ry: keeps the last 200 messages
[04:16] fictorial: that works
[04:16] _ry: or whatever
[04:16] creationix: _ry, is it ok for fs.readFile to use fs.stat and read the whole file into one custom fit buffer?
[04:16] creationix: I've got a version and it's pretty fast
[04:16] _ry: creationix: um
[04:16] _ry: creationix: yes
[04:16] creationix: https://gist.github.com/7d3174e77e6425cbdf88
[04:16] _ry: creationix: that's how i was going to do it
[04:16] tmpvar: that sounds sexy creationix
[04:17] _ry: creationix: it needs to deal with the case that read() doesn't return the requested amount
[04:18] creationix: I was wondering if that was a possiblity
[04:18] _ry: it is
[04:18] creationix: so read only reads up to the requested amount then
[04:18] tmpvar: yeah <= the requested
[04:18] creationix: not exactly that much
[04:18] creationix: I see
[04:18] creationix: well, that complicates things, but it's still less copying for small files
[04:19] _ry: yeah
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[04:21] creationix: hmm, so how much does it take to test it
[04:21] creationix: maybe try to serve up an iso image or something?
[04:22] creationix: hmm, symlinks are going to be problematic too
[04:23] fictorial: Apple's Game Center is giving me heartburn.
[04:26] fictorial: unrelated: what's the deal with node.js and udp?  is it on the roadmap?
[04:26] creationix: hmm, I'm not sure new Buffer(928670754) is a good idea...
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[04:28] fictorial: creationix: sounds like a perfect match for mmap
[04:29] creationix: what's mmap?
[04:29] fictorial: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory-mapped_file
[04:29] Aria: Map a file or swap region into process.
[04:29] Aria: Uses memory where it can, but is file-backed where it can't.
[04:30] creationix: that would be nice
[04:30] fictorial: 'A possible benefit of memory-mapped files is a "lazy loading", thus using small amounts of RAM even for a very large file.'
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[04:30] creationix: _ry: process.binding('fs').read() gave me the whole 1gb file in a single chunk
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[04:31] creationix: it took a few seconds and used a gig of ram, but it worked
[04:31] creationix: fictorial: so ideally fs.readFile returns a mmap backed buffer?
[04:32] creationix: or would that even be possible?
[04:32] Aria: That's actually a good interface...
[04:32] Aria: Sure beats copy-into-RAM...
[04:32] fictorial: it's not always possible or desired 
[04:32] _ry: cerberos: i think you should still do a loop and be prepared for the situation that it doesnt return the whole file
[04:32] _ry: sorry
[04:32] _ry: creationix: --^
[04:33] creationix: I've got the loop
[04:33] creationix: I'm just not able to test it
[04:33] creationix: _ry: https://gist.github.com/7d3174e77e6425cbdf88 udpated
[04:34] creationix: *updated
[04:34] _ry: that should be fine
[04:35] _ry: creationix: could you patch it in?
[04:36] creationix: sure, just a sec
[04:36] creationix: _ry: readFile still needs to honor the encoding string right?
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[04:38] _ry: creationix: yeah, i suppose that'd be good.
[04:38] joshowens: can anyone help me work through an issue?
[04:38] _ry: you can just toString it at the end
[04:38] creationix: ok, I was about to ask that
[04:38] joshowens: I've got this code that only works on the first try: http://gist.github.com/392869
[04:39] joshowens: line 23 and 24 get called on the first request, but the next request only seems to run 24
[04:40] Aria: _ry, ever considered having buffers not convert until translated to a string, rather than storing in a specific encoding?
[04:40] joshowens: it is an analytics tracker for file downloading, I've built this before in ruby but wanted to use Node.js and mongo
[04:42] _ry: Aria: buffers are just raw data - they don't store a specific encoding
[04:43] Aria: Ah, okay. It looked like there was some munging to make it store as low order bytes in a UTF-16 string.
[04:43] Aria: I was reading the code, but hadn't worked through the logic of it all.
[04:44] joshowens: 
ACTION hears crickets...

[04:45] phazm: joshowens: could it be because you are calling the log function before it is defined?
[04:46] joshowens: phazm: that matters in js?
[04:47] Aria: just like in Ruby.
[04:47] BryanWB: the log function will have the value of undefined until u define it
[04:48] joshowens: bingo, that did it, thx phazm
[04:49] joshowens: and Aria/BryanWB
[04:49] phazm: np joshowens 
[04:49] creationix: _ry can we please make inspect use Buffer.prototype.inspect for buffers?
[04:49] creationix: it's much easier on the eyes
[04:50] joshowens: well, that solved the issue with log, now to fix my db updating :)
[04:52] BryanWB: are the authors of tasks.js or Task.node around?
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[04:55] BryanWB: 
ACTION is curious if anyone has thought about porting Jake to node

[04:56] ChrisPartridge: What is Jake?
[04:56] BryanWB: rake ported to narwhal
[04:57] BryanWB: http://karmaeducation.org/2010/01/15/get-started-with-jake-a-rake-clone-in-javascript/
[04:57] _ry: creationix: yes
[04:58] mde: BryanWB: http://github.com/mde/jake
[04:58] mde: It's more JS make than just a port of Rake. The Ruby DSL isn't very JavaScripty.
[04:59] ChrisPartridge: I'm getting an overload of 'things to play around with' while hanging around here
[04:59] BryanWB: mde: fair enough, i have actually used jake a good bit but never used rake and only make a little
[05:00] BryanWB: mde: so u ported it? nice!
[05:00] Aria: I'm not even sure the ruby language is very rubyish in Rake.
[05:00] mde: In Ruby, the parens for method calls are optional, so stuff looks much prettier.
[05:00] isaacs has joined the channel
[05:00] mde: I'm just using object literals, which feels a lot more JavaScripty.
[05:01] mde: Yeah, so it's not really a port of Rake, strictly speaking.
[05:01] BryanWB: mde:  ah i c u haven't add the file globbing, clean tasks
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[05:02] mde: Nope, it's still very basic, it just looks for deps then runs the task.
[05:02] BryanWB: mde: after i finish my exam next week will take a stab at adding more to it
[05:02] mde: That would be fantastic.
[05:02] mde: mikeal was working on some similar command-line opts parsing, would be nice if we could get that stuff in there too.
[05:03] mde: I really just wanted something so I could do the build tasks for Geddy in JS.
[05:03] BryanWB: mde: damn github won't let me fork your project because i already have a fork of the narwhal version
[05:03] mde: Oh, stupid same-nameness.
[05:04] Aria: Yarr.
[05:06] creationix: I now see why debug builds aren't enabled by default, it takes twice as long to compile
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[05:06] creationix: it looks like it's making two versions of v8
[05:10] creationix: _ry: heh, it brok 100% of the test suite
[05:10] _ry: yes!
[05:10] _ry: :)
[05:10] _ry: i often do that
[05:10] creationix: I think require or something that uses fs.readFile expected the result to be a string and is trying to call replace on it
[05:10] _ry: yes
[05:11] _ry: add an encoding to that call
[05:11] _ry: wherever it is
[05:11] creationix:     at Module._compile (module:351:21)
[05:11] creationix: that might be it
[05:11] creationix: hmm, no, wrong part of stack trace, but I'll find it
[05:12] isaacs: creationix: making readFile return a buffer?
[05:12] creationix: isaacs: yep
[05:12] isaacs: creationix: badass.
[05:12] isaacs: creationix: yeah, it's in the "cat" function in module.js
[05:12] isaacs: iirc
[05:12] BryanWB: is camilo aguilar around?
[05:12] BryanWB: am curious about his libvirt bindings
[05:14] creationix: ahh, much better, now it's passing tests
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[05:15] creationix: _ry: is test-ini a known broken test?
[05:16] _ry: no
[05:16] _ry: should be working
[05:17] creationix: ok, found it, another place trying to treat the buffer as a string
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[05:21] creationix: _ry: http://gist.github.com/raw/393086/27b54ab370d9ef673b9fff55f35d308f4a5dd120/fs-readFile-to-buffer.patch
[05:21] creationix: passes all tests
[05:21] creationix: now to patch sys.inspect real quick
[05:22] _ry: very good
[05:22] _ry: i shouldn't commit while drinking... but fuck it
[05:22] creationix: :)
[05:22] creationix: in that case, let me prepare a few more patches ;)
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[05:26] CIA-75: node: 03Tim Caswell 07master * rc07c601 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): fs.readFile uses a buffer internally and will return the raw buffer if no encoding is specified. - http://bit.ly/aJ9Apm
[05:27] _ry: creationix: please read the first paragraph of git-commit(1) section "DISCUSSION"
[05:27] _ry: in particular the 50 character commit line convention
[05:27] creationix: cool
[05:28] creationix: so make a separate subject line
[05:28] creationix: thanks
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[05:37] isaacs: how can you detect whether or not node has tls support?
[05:38] _ry: isaacs: look in the tls tests
[05:38] isaacs: kewl
[05:38] _ry: but i think there should be a better way
[05:38] saikat: this is probably a very noobish question, but is it expected that the compressed output from deflating some data using node-compress can't be read using python's zlib library
[05:38] saikat: though both the python lib. and the node lib. use zlib.h to compress/decompress?
[05:39] saikat: is the binary format used by node somehow different and so appears corrupt to python?
[05:39] isaacs: oh, ok, so basically if var crypto = require('crypto'); doesn't throw, then you have tls
[05:39] isaacs: that seems... kludgey
[05:41] _ry: saikat: not so familiar with that lib - but - i would expect it to be usable elsewhere
[05:41] _ry: saikat: that is, data deflated with it
[05:41] saikat: hm, yeah that's what i thought - the zlib specification seems like it should be the same across languages
[05:41] saikat: seems like a bug in node-compress or in python's zlib then, thanks
[05:42] saikat: (node-compress is used for inflating in the default http client used by node, i believe)
[05:42] saikat: or actually, i guess not the default one
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[05:48] isaacs: creationix: http://github.com/isaacs/npm/issues/closed#issue/10
[05:48] creationix: isaacs: thanks
[05:48] isaacs: looks like nvm doesn't compile with tls? or is it just that the guy doesn't have openssl or something?
[05:52] creationix: _ry: http://gist.github.com/393112
[05:52] creationix: I added the inspect hook and fixed a minor bug while I was in there
[05:54] _ry: hmm
[05:54] _ry: looks a little complicated
[05:55] _ry: can't you just add a 'if (obj instanceof Buffer)' /
[05:55] _ry: ?
[05:56] isaacs: is there ever a case where (typeof {}).replace(/^([a-z])/, function (d) { return d.toUpperCase(); }) !== "Object"?
[05:59] creationix: _ry: I can, I thought a general hook would be better in the long run
[05:59] creationix: isaacs: good question
[05:59] creationix: strings?
[06:00] _ry: creationix: i like specific :)
[06:00] _ry: easier to read
[06:00] _ry: stupid code is good code
[06:01] _ry: http://github.com/ry/node/blob/d044e2de07f147771dd68fa859165df6380264c0/src/node.cc#L1656-1788 <--
[06:01] _ry: this might be a little too stupid
[06:01] _ry: but it works!
[06:01] _ry: if cascades are slow you say - it's only 20 clauses who cares?
[06:02] creationix: well, in case of the inspect hook, it's for third part code that want's a custom inspect on their objects
[06:02] creationix: we can't enumerate on that because it's unknown
[06:02] creationix: I thought that was why buffer has an inspect method in the first place
[06:02] creationix: to start this convention
[06:02] _ry: just do the buffer exception if the issue comes up again we'll do something else
[06:03] _ry: creationix: i mean, mayber you're right - but ...
[06:04] isaacs: _ry: re slow cascades, can't you switch(){} on a string in c?
[06:04] _ry: isaacs: no
[06:04] isaacs: or is switch only for native things?
[06:04] isaacs: oh, ok.
[06:04] isaacs: does c support the reverse-switch trick?
[06:05] _ry: what's that?
[06:05] isaacs: switch (true) {  (strcmp(*module, "ssl") == 0): blah blah blah; break;
[06:05] inimino: isaacs: what's that typeof thing?
[06:05] isaacs: inimino: a quote from creationix's gist
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[06:06] isaacs: ok, gotta run.
[06:06] _ry: hmm
[06:06] _ry: not sure i understand that, isaacs 
[06:06] isaacs: _ry: you could maybe also do switch(0) { case strcmp(...): ...
[06:06] inimino: ah
[06:07] isaacs: _ry: a trick i used to use in vb back in the day
[06:07] _ry: i guess you'd have lots of those?
[06:07] creationix: I don't think c allows that switch
[06:07] _ry: it'd go down the list
[06:07] _ry: until it found the match?
[06:07] isaacs: you put teh constant in the switch() and then the compares have a variable or something
[06:07] creationix: _ry: http://gist.github.com/393123
[06:07] isaacs: but it ends up being just a cascade.
[06:07] _ry: you could do that - but it's not any faster than a if cascade
[06:07] creationix: choose your version
[06:07] inimino: creationix: yeah I don't think that will ever be anything but "Object"
[06:07] isaacs: i mean, the whole benefit of a switch is that it's fast, right?  but it might also be more readable.
[06:08] creationix: inimino: sure it will
[06:08] isaacs: _ry: less cruft, i guess
[06:08] inimino: creationix: when?
[06:08] creationix: value can be anything, strings included
[06:08] creationix: typeof "foo" is "string"
[06:08] isaacs: creationix: but you're putting (typeof {}) not typeof thing
[06:08] tlrobinson: mde|afk: it's literally a port of rake
[06:08] isaacs: {} is always an object
[06:08] creationix: really?
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[06:08] creationix: then that's a typo
[06:08] isaacs: ah
[06:08] inimino: hehe
[06:09] _ry: isaacs: switch is only fast if it can jump to the case 
[06:09] creationix: hah, you're right, sorry about that
[06:09] isaacs: creationix: line 37 in the gist
[06:09] isaacs: _ry: right
[06:09] inimino: "typeof value" ...
[06:09] inimino: ?
[06:09] isaacs: _ry: it'd maybe be a readability benefit. i dunno.
[06:09] isaacs: ok, office time.
[06:09] isaacs: have fun
[06:09] _ry: office?
[06:09] _ry: huh
[06:10] inimino: 
ACTION afks too

[06:10] _ry: startup life, i guess
[06:10] micheil: _ry: I always assumed most startups were bedroom jobs ;P
[06:10] _ry: not all :)
[06:11] micheil: joking.
[06:11] micheil: :P
[06:11] creationix: _ry: ok, I updated the gist, it had a typo
[06:11] creationix: I'm off to bed
[06:13] creationix: http://gist.github.com/393123
[06:16] mscdex: _ry: what did you mean earlier about an irc client in node? adding a frontend and incorporating comet capability?
[06:16] tlrobinson: mde|afk: nevermind i didn't see your version. you should make sure it's compatible with our jake http://cappuccino.org/discuss/2010/04/28/introducing-jake-a-build-tool-for-javascript/
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[06:21] _ry: mscdex: an irc client written in code would be cool
[06:22] mscdex: ah ok, a console client then?
[06:24] _ry: node
[06:24] _ry: i meant
[06:24] _ry: well there aren't any ncurses bindings yet
[06:24] _ry: console clint would be awesome
[06:25] _ry: but mostly i meant a mibit clone
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[06:32] mscdex: heh there's an ncurses binding for spiderape
[06:38] tlrobinson: surely they could have come up with a better name than spiderape, preferably one that doesn't sound like spider rape
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[06:41] mscdex: heh true
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[06:47] JimBastard: spoiler alert : iron man sucked
[06:48] phazm: spoiler alert: snape kills dubledore.
[06:49] technoweenie: worse than the first iron man?
[06:51] qFox has joined the channel
[06:53] mscdex: spoiler alert: han shot first :-)
[07:10] Nohryb: hi, where/what can I touch somewhere to get chunks > 4096 bytes in the process.stdin stream data events ??
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[07:15] Nohryb: I'm writing a command-line-tool to process files of ~ 1.9GB file trough stdin, it would be awesome if I could get it in bigger than that chunks, in less than 1.9GB/4096bytes (4980736) 'data' events/chunks.
[07:16] dgathright: So the 3rd param in http.createClient is an optional boolean for https.  Seems that when I pass in a true flag, the request just hangs and I never get a response.  Any idea what I'm doing wrong?  http.createClient(80, "http://google.com", true);
[07:17] dgathright: oh, wait, the port, duh.  lemme change that & try again
[07:17] ChrisPartridge: Does the url need to specify https?
[07:17] ChrisPartridge: and the port 443?
[07:18] mscdex: i would think so
[07:18] dgathright: yeah, 443 & remove the http part.  Works fine.  Guess I'm more tired than I thought. :)
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[07:19] ChrisPartridge: dgathright: coffee always helps :-)
[07:19] mscdex: true :D
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[07:23] Nohryb: Is it possible to read process.stdin with fs.read(fd, length, position, encoding, callback) ? That would allow me specify a chunk size > 4096.
[07:27] phazm: can anyone think of a way to get a screen capture of a site via node.js?
[07:29] phazm: like to actually take the screencap, not just send one
[07:31] mscdex: you would probably just create a child process that runs a screen capture utility
[07:31] mscdex: i think there's one for webkit
[07:31] mscdex: at least
[07:31] technoweenie: you'd probably not want to run it on a unix machine, it'll have shitty fonts
[07:32] mscdex: :S
[07:35] micheil: _ry: seen? http://github.com/copiousfreetime/http-parser.rb
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[07:44] mscdex: phazm: maybe this might work: http://cutycapt.sourceforge.net/
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[07:46] phazm: that looks like exactly what I need, thanks mscdex 
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[08:01] qFox: mscdex> for firefox, it has a (prori) screenshot method which you could xhr. 
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[08:04] phazm: qFox: huh?
[08:09] qFox: maybe i missunderstood you...?
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[08:10] qFox: firefox allows for a screenshot through one of its propriatary methods. load a website in firefox, take the screenshot onload, send back to node through xhr. repeat for url queue.
[08:10] qFox: or something.
[08:11] qFox: combined with cutycapt, you'll have two browsers to do this in :p
[08:12] qFox: or three, even, if you count safari/chrome as two 
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[08:13] qFox: i'm gonna write a simple pngquant front-end using node, tonight.
[08:14] phazm: could that be automated though, qFox?
[08:16] qFox: the screenshot taking? sure why not?
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[08:18] phazm: dunno -- just sounded like it was a manual process ;)
[08:18] qFox: on your own site, it'll be easy, since you can add the script yourself. 
[08:18] qFox: external sites would take a bit more work (add-on or bookmarklet or other script to invoke the screenshot taking on page load)
[08:19] qFox: once the screenshot has been sent to your node app, instruct node to either change the url somehow (dont know how that works myself) or close the firefox instance and spawn a new one
[08:19] qFox: i'm sure there's an easy way to change the url
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[08:19] qFox: possibly using an addon
[08:19] phazm: just to be clear, it shows a rendering of the content based on the gecko rendering engine, not the users browser, right?
[08:20] qFox: eh..?
[08:20] phazm: I am quite lost.
[08:20] mscdex: heh
[08:20] qFox: you fire up firefox yourself (using node). i'm not sure how that question applies
[08:21] phazm: you said a script on my site
[08:21] qFox: yes.
[08:21] qFox: just a javascript you add to the source of your website
[08:21] qFox: onload you execute the screenshot taking method and send it back to node
[08:21] qFox: using ajax..
[08:22] phazm: I'm going to just take your word for it, until you have a working example - apparently my brain has decided it's too late for comprehension ;)
[08:22] qFox: hm, what step is unclear? :)
[08:22] phazm: from this line down is pretty fuzzy:
[08:22] phazm: qFox>	mscdex>  for firefox, it has a (prori) screenshot method which you could xhr. 
[08:22] mscdex: i think phazm was looking to do batch website screenshots from a node.js server
[08:23] qFox: hehe. the start :p
[08:23] phazm: ;)
[08:23] phazm: yea, the cutycapt method should work fine, so long as it's non-blocking
[08:24] mscdex: well, for child processes it would be asynchronous to your script
[08:24] phazm: ah, okay
[08:24] qFox: mscdex> just for my own sanity, is my idea garbage? or am i explaining it wrong
[08:24] mscdex: you'd just add a listener for the 'exit' event or whatever
[08:24] mscdex: qFox: i think he was looking for something completely server-side
[08:25] qFox: hm
[08:25] phazm: I wouldn't question your sanity, qFox -- I'm sure the issue is on my end :)
[08:25] qFox: doesnt cutycapt fire up a webkit browser?
[08:25] qFox: to take the screenshot...
[08:25] qFox: or is it just a backend process that does this work...
[08:25] phazm: not visibly -- that might be how it handles it, but it's a command line util
[08:25] mscdex: not a browser, but just enough to render an image
[08:26] qFox: okay, i didnt get that at first. 
[08:26] qFox: the firefox thing can be automated as well, but it sounds like cutycapt will be much less of a hassle :)
[08:26] mscdex: it does require an X server though, but you can use xvfb
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[08:27] mscdex: wkhtml2pdf doesn't require an X server, but needs x11 libs though.... and obviously only outputs to pdf though
[08:27] mscdex: *x11 client libs
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[08:28] phazm: no idea what 'X' is, but it works for me on ubuntu desktop
[08:28] robinduckett: brb
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[08:29] qFox: x is the (a) graphical interface :)
[08:29] mscdex: X is what powers your desktop GUI
[08:30] phazm: and KDE, and Gnome, those are other GUIs?
[08:30] mscdex: those are window managers that run on top of X
[08:30] phazm: ah
[08:30] mscdex: or desktop environments
[08:30] mscdex: whichever :P
[08:30] mscdex: there's many parts
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[08:33] chakrit: anyone of you on forrst?
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[08:52] jedschmidt: new ( require("buffer").Buffer )( 0 ).write( "", "utf8", 0 )
[08:52] jedschmidt: causes "TypeError: Offset is out of bounds"
[08:53] jedschmidt: this seems like a bug. writing nothing should just leave the buffer as is, right?
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[08:56] chakrit: utf8 bom?
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[08:57] jedschmidt: it fails for ascii too.
[08:57] robinduckett: harrow
[08:59] qFox: is it something you'd encountered in a real situation though?
[08:59] jedschmidt: qFox: just did.
[08:59] qFox: how?
[09:00] jedschmidt: parsing a string into a template.
[09:00] qFox: hm k
[09:00] jedschmidt: items at even inidices are strings
[09:00] jedschmidt: items at odd indices are variables.
[09:00] jedschmidt: two consecutive variables means the string between them is empty.
[09:01] robinduckett: that sounds vaugely familiar
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[09:01] jedschmidt: doesn't seem like something node should blow up on.
[09:01] robinduckett: i made a parsey thing that parses <?sjs javascript here ?> html here <?sjs mo javascript ?><?sjs even more ?> the other day
[09:02] robinduckett: and for some reason, every even index is the JS and every odd index is the HTML, even if there's no space between the ?> and the <?sjs
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[09:02] robinduckett: These things may be completely unrelated.
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[09:03] qFox: probably a premature check firing "you cant write anything to an empty buffer, even if its nothing"
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[09:05] jedschmidt: qFox: hmmm, i'm not sure that behavior makes sense to me.
[09:07] phazm: so if I want to run a command repeatedly on node.js (and external command, like "ls") but the parameters change each time, how would that look? Do I just overwrite the variable that the 'spawn' is assigned to?
[09:07] qFox: simple edge case check. if (this.length === 0) throw error
[09:08] qFox: (not saying that's it, but it could easily be)
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[09:08] chakrit: phazm: Make a function that runs ls + args and "queue" that with setTimeouts
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[09:10] phazm: chakrit: I don't suppose I could trouble you for a bit of sample code? I'm not sure how that function would look (I can, however, make my own setTimeout)
[09:10] phazm: ah, wait a sec
[09:11] felixge: yes, 175 mb / sec!
[09:11] phazm: child = exec('cat *.js bad_file | wc -l',   function (error, stdout, stderr) { ... })); <-- this should work
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[09:11] phazm: or is that bad form?
[09:11] mscdex: you could do that
[09:12] phazm: "but..."?
[09:12] mscdex: afaik it's not considered "bad form"
[09:12] phazm: awesome, thanks :)
[09:13] felixge: jedschmidt: sup?
[09:13] jedschmidt: hey felixge, que pasa?
[09:13] felixge: jedschmidt: you're creating buffers of size 0?
[09:14] chakrit: hmm... in JS IMO it's better to not rely on changing states.
[09:14] jedschmidt: felixge: well, i can always take out that case, obviously.
[09:14] felixge: jedschmidt: :)
[09:14] felixge: well, the buffer API needs some more love for sure
[09:14] jedschmidt: felixge: just wondering whether it makes sense to handle that more nicely.
[09:15] jedschmidt: felixge: like, when we get around to adding strings to the constructor, new Buffer("") will also explode.
[09:15] felixge: jedschmidt: right
[09:15] felixge: yeah I want to construct buffers from strings
[09:15] felixge: would be very useful
[09:16] felixge: or from an array of bytes
[09:16] felixge: new Buffer([1,2,3])
[09:16] jedschmidt: felixge: ah sure, didn't even think of that case.
[09:16] jedschmidt: felixge: unfortunately, that stuff is too deep for me to help fix.
[09:17] felixge: jedschmidt: I don't agree :)
[09:17] felixge: jedschmidt: You don't need to understand C/C++ very much for these kinds of tweaks
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[09:17] jedschmidt: felixge: i don't agree :)
[09:17] felixge: jedschmidt: just look how ryan is doing certain things in certain parts of the code and repeat the logical patterns
[09:18] felixge: jedschmidt: all my C++ patches so far have been smart applications of copy & paste ;)
[09:18] jedschmidt: felixge: yeah, but you know some flavors of C, no? aren't you doing iphone dev too?
[09:19] jedschmidt: felixge: congrats on your parser speed, btw.
[09:19] felixge: jedschmidt: iPhone dev is something brain-dead monkeys could do :)
[09:19] felixge: jedschmidt: anyway, yes - I know some of that stuff - but it's really not helpful for C++
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[09:20] jedschmidt: felixge: well, i think my efforts may be better spent in (fab)land right now....
[09:20] felixge: jedschmidt: won't disagree with that!
[09:20] felixge: :)
[09:20] felixge: How is it coming along?
[09:20] felixge: Would you recommend to use it right now?
[09:20] jedschmidt: felixge: tho i'll take a peek and see if i'm up to snuff.
[09:20] jedschmidt: felixge: not yet. next version will come together nicely.
[09:20] felixge: jedschmidt: sweet
[09:20] jedschmidt: felixge: native templating is going to solve a lot.
[09:21] felixge: jedschmidt: I'll make sure to add a fab interface for my file upload lib
[09:21] jedschmidt: felixge: also, the parser will be more forgiving, so you don't need to keep track of accumulated arities.
[09:21] felixge: jedschmidt: templating?
[09:21] jedschmidt: felixge: http://gist.github.com/382827
[09:25] felixge: jedschmidt: so you're building your own template engine?
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[09:26] jedschmidt: felixge: already built, only 30 LOC, tho. takes a string and returns an n-ary app that takes as many apps are there are variables.
[09:26] chakrit: jquery just released a templating library: http://github.com/jquery/jquery-tmpl
[09:26] felixge: jedschmidt: does it stream?
[09:26] jedschmidt: felixge: of course!
[09:26] jedschmidt: felixge: and all the static text gets turned into buffers.
[09:27] felixge: jedschmidt: I don't see the point
[09:27] felixge: jedschmidt: if it already is text you paid your penalty
[09:27] felixge: jedschmidt: converting it to a buffer before node pushes it out doesn't really make things faster
[09:27] jedschmidt: felixge: the whole point of templates is reuse.
[09:28] jedschmidt: felixge: those static segments get sent every time the template is streamed.
[09:28] felixge: jedschmidt: anyway, the idea itself looks cool
[09:28] felixge: jedschmidt: but I kind of feel that it should be a standalone app
[09:28] felixge: jedschmidt: rather than part of fab-core
[09:28] felixge: (if possible)
[09:28] jedschmidt: felixge: so you take hit of creating buffers for static sections once, and then only send buffers.
[09:28] felixge: jedschmidt: ah, so you only have to compile once - makes sense
[09:29] jedschmidt: felixge: there is no fab-core.
[09:29] felixge: s/compile/convert to buffers/
[09:29] jedschmidt: every app is free-standing, really.
[09:29] jedschmidt: felixge: right.
[09:29] felixge: jedschmidt: the templating is built into fab, no?
[09:29] felixge: jedschmidt: I'm saying it should not be built-in
[09:30] jedschmidt: well, there's no real concept of "built-in" anymore.
[09:30] jedschmidt: fab.String = fab.template
[09:30] jedschmidt: so whenever it sees a string, it templatizes it. if there are no variables, it just sends it as is.
[09:30] jedschmidt: it's pretty invisible to folks not using templates.
[09:31] felixge: jedschmidt: you are the master of meta-frameworks
[09:31] felixge: :D
[09:31] jedschmidt: felixge: yeah, i can't wait to make it less meta and more real.
[09:32] jedschmidt: i'll probably push an initial branch of v5 next week.
[09:32] felixge: jedschmidt: looking forward to play with it
[09:32] felixge: jedschmidt: seems like a great fit for quick apps to push to heroku as well
[09:32] felixge: jedschmidt: you can put together a basic app in < 5min :)
[09:32] jedschmidt: felixge: i think you'll come around on templates.
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[09:33] jedschmidt: felixge: yeah, if only they'd let me in the beta!
[09:33] jedschmidt: i really hope they lift the 30-second connection limit.
[09:33] felixge: jedschmidt: did you tell them you are a big & important person?
[09:33] felixge: with private volcanos?
[09:33] felixge: that's what I did :)
[09:34] felixge: jedschmidt: they already said they will, but I can imagine them being scared of it :D
[09:34] jedschmidt: felixge: i told them i work on (fab), but it seems like they like express better (i mean, it's a lot more mature for sure).
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[09:34] binbash^: hi guys
[09:34] binbash^: I start to experiments with node and i have small problem now
[09:35] binbash^: Namely i have created a http server with node and when i open the page im my browser everything works fine but when i try to get the content of page through ajax using jquery i recived an empty string
[09:35] felixge: jedschmidt: I don't approve of express, it's good work for sure - but it seems like tj can't let go of ruby :)
[09:35] felixge: it doesn't feel "natural" to me
[09:35] felixge: like fab does
[09:36] jedschmidt: felixge: yeah, i feel like most js frameworks are too ruby for my taste.
[09:36] felixge: binbash^: paste some code?
[09:36] micheil: fab doesn't feel natural without the JSConf talk.
[09:36] jedschmidt: felixge: i guess the syntactic sugar is too compelling.
[09:36] felixge: jedschmidt: yes, even you can fall for it (I saw that 'with' thingy!)
[09:37] jedschmidt: micheil: yeah, i hope the videos come up soon. it's a lot simpler than folks think.
[09:37] jedschmidt: felixge: i think you'll come around on `with` too!
[09:37] micheil: jedschmidt: I just can't get used to that whole () syntax, it's half crazy'
[09:37] jedschmidt: jedschmidt: it's completely optional, and doesn't affect runtime perf at all.
[09:37] micheil: jedschmidt: then again, I prefer the ideas of Sammy.js and such
[09:37] BryanWB: i would love to see the fab video, i have long plane flight next week that would be perfect for it;)
[09:37] jedschmidt: i only dislike with when it's hidden in the framework, like sinatra etc.
[09:37] micheil: you have an application, and you explicitly map an object to a url
[09:38] micheil: (well, function to a url)
[09:38] felixge: jedschmidt: you should not encourage peole to use 'with', ever! Under no circumstances. Even if it would save lives. It's evil!
[09:38] jedschmidt: micheil: (fab) isn't much different.
[09:38] jedschmidt: felixge: yeah, i used to feel that way. it's why i took `with` out of resig's tmpl engine for (fab)
[09:38] micheil: it currently looks different, probably because of all the unnamed functions
[09:38] felixge: micheil: I think fab is really easy once you stop listening to jed's meta-analysis of things and just start using it :)
[09:39] micheil: leave out a () and you break everything further down the chain
[09:39] jedschmidt: micheil: the only difference is that (fab) lets you create a hierarchy of urls, not just a list.
[09:39] micheil: how was it that made that encoding service?
[09:39] jedschmidt: micheil: that won't be true of v5.
[09:39] micheil: jedschmidt: yeah, I guess.
[09:39] felixge: micheil: how = who?
[09:39] jedschmidt: micheil: v5 will be much more forgiving, because it'll flatten everything for you automatically.
[09:39] micheil: uh, yea
[09:39] felixge: micheil: me :)
[09:39] felixge: well and 2 others
[09:39] micheil: felixge: framework?
[09:40] micheil: 
ACTION is hopeless with names

[09:40] jedschmidt: micheil: it's okay, i get you confused with mikeal all the time.
[09:40] felixge: micheil: we don't use a framework. We have exactly 2 url endpoints and this point :)
[09:41] felixge: * at this
[09:41] micheil: felixge: ha, good point
[09:41] felixge: but I think we'll switch to fab in the future if it doesn't affect performance too badly
[09:41] micheil: I know dropular.net from rsms uses OUI, which is good, but a little confusing, because it covers both client and server
[09:41] felixge: (mostly caring about the speed of file uploads)
[09:42] micheil: damn. the only problem about my dad having awesome speakers is that it drowns out the music I listen to over headphones. :(
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[09:42] jedschmidt: felixge: yeah, i'm gonna need your help benchmarking (fab) once it's ready.
[09:42] felixge: jedschmidt: np :)
[09:43] jedschmidt: tho i guess node-dirty isn't really compatible with heroku?
[09:43] felixge: micheil: get some of these http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-280-Pro-Professional/dp/B000065BPB/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1273225408&sr=8-3
[09:44] micheil: hmm..
[09:44] felixge: jedschmidt: hm, they give you no disk acccess?
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[09:44] felixge: jedschmidt: otherwise it should be compatible
[09:44] micheil: not bad, they cost three times the amount of my current headset
[09:44] jedschmidt: felixge: well, seems like they treat disks as more of a read thing than a write thing.
[09:45] jedschmidt: felixge: http://docs.heroku.com/constraints#read-only-filesystem
[09:45] felixge: micheil: it's one of my best investments as a programmer. I can work anywhere with these babies on - all surrounding noise is blocked.
[09:45] micheil: felixge: they don't look too great
[09:45] felixge: micheil: they even help me sleep on the airplane
[09:46] felixge: jedschmidt: hm, that sucks
[09:46] felixge: micheil: as with every pair of headphones I've owned so far - I can't see them while I'm wearing them :D
[09:46] micheil: really still tossing up as to whether to write Ideocase to be backed with node.js or rails3
[09:47] jedschmidt: felixge: yeah, their stack is pretty weird. but if it's not too ruby, i'm all over it.
[09:47] felixge: micheil: what kind of app is it?
[09:47] micheil: it's one for collecting, organising and managing ideas
[09:47] jedschmidt: felixge: tho i guess i'd have to use mongo? i don't even know if they support that for node.
[09:48] micheil: so, the data's stored in a mongodb instance, currently as a tree type table, but possibly will be as a embeddocument
[09:48] micheil: jedschmidt: the mongo db drivers for node are pretty good
[09:48] micheil: the main thing I'm worried about is user auth and security stuff
[09:49] micheil: which is really not a strong point of mine
[09:49] jedschmidt: micheil: ah, good to hear. how are you going to do auth?
[09:49] felixge: jedschmidt: I don't see them supporting mongo?
[09:49] micheil: felixge: it's 3rd party
[09:49] micheil: felixge: you can get mongo hosting at mongohq, really recommend them
[09:49] felixge: micheil: doesn't seem like node would be a good choice for your app at this point
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[09:50] felixge: micheil: I mean, you don't seem to build something that needs long-polling or to be very fast initially
[09:50] micheil: yeah, the pure reason for choosing rails3, is it's secure by default in many ways
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[09:50] micheil: felixge: yeah, it doesn't need websockets, long-polling or anything like that yet
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[09:51] micheil: I guess the first thing is to just get something out the door, as I've only got about 4 months left to build it
[09:51] micheil: (it's my major project for my final Highschool year)
[09:51] felixge: secure by default - hah
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[09:52] felixge: micheil: in that case, why do you even care for security?
[09:52] micheil: felixge: in the sense that all strings in <%= %> are automatically html escaped, etc.
[09:52] felixge: micheil: seems like you could get away writing this thing in assembler if it tickles your fancy
[09:52] micheil: felixge: see: http://www.railsdispatch.com/posts/security
[09:53] felixge: you should definitely us node - just for the fun of it 
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[09:53] felixge: unless you're looking for the least amount of work
[09:53] felixge: than rails3 will imho be better at this point
[09:53] micheil: yeah
[09:53] micheil: I guess in the future if it gets traction, I can always rewrite it as a node app, when node is a little more matured (eg, post v0.2)
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[10:01] jedschmidt: micheil: how do you like mongo?
[10:01] jedschmidt: micheil: and why use mongohq over heroku's 3rd party stuff?
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[10:08] vladb: hi guys, node is crashing on me if i do multiple concurrent requests... does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm getting "Error: Stream is not writable" in limestone (sphinx search lib). The line in question is server_conn.write(request.toString(), 'binary');
[10:09] vladb: mind, all this is fine if I do one http request at a time
[10:10] chakrit: vladb: smells like bad closures
[10:11] vladb: chakrit: what do you mean?
[10:12] chakrit: hmm, what's server_conn?
[10:12] chakrit: I mean
[10:13] chakrit: It's like you have closed the Stream somewhere and accidentally re-use it in server_conn
[10:14] vladb: that's what I thought, but why would this happen only on concurrent requests, should be the same thing with just one?
[10:16] chakrit: Can you show some more code?
[10:17] vladb: sure, sec
[10:19] vladb: this is my code: http://pastebin.com/60NenJVm
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[10:19] felixge_: 300 mb / sec
[10:19] felixge_: :)
[10:20] vladb: and this is limestone.js (prob is line 269): http://pastebin.com/VYkkqRNP
[10:22] jedschmidt: felixge: at this rate you'll be measuring in gb by tomorrow.
[10:22] chakrit: well, it seems server_conn is re-used as I've said.
[10:23] chakrit: the "connect" event could fire *after* server_conn = tcp.create has run a few times
[10:24] felixge_: 390 mb / sec
[10:24] felixge_: jedschmidt: nah, I think I maxed it out now :)
[10:24] felixge_: jedschmidt: I mean this speed is for the best-case scenario of byte sequences
[10:24] felixge_: jedschmidt: the worst-case is pretty much not optimized at all
[10:24] felixge_: jedschmidt: but that's ok - it doesn't matter for file uploads
[10:24] felixge_: :)
[10:24] chakrit: vladb: var server_conn should be moved inside the Spinx.connect function
[10:25] vladb: chakrit: wouldn't that make it unusable in other methods?
[10:26] chakrit: Hmmm
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[10:26] chakrit: Maybe , just maybe that server_conn was meant to be re-used?
[10:26] chakrit: one sec
[10:27] vladb: I assume so, definitely needed in Sphinx.query
[10:28] chakrit: Well, in that case you just can't use it concurrently.
[10:28] vladb: hmm any workarounds?
[10:29] chakrit: Hmm... one sec...
[10:29] chakrit: I think that's it.
[10:29] vladb: what is?
[10:30] chakrit: server_conn.addListener('data', callback) <-- the callback isn't guarateed to run in order
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[10:30] chakrit: other parts of code that use callbacks as well.
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[10:30] chakrit: so even if it works I think it might just returned wrong results
[10:30] chakrit: A workaround might be re-requiring the limestone.js file
[10:31] chakrit: separately for each connection
[10:31] vladb: hmm
[10:32] chakrit: not sure how to do that though :(
[10:33] vladb: ah I think I finally get it. well, the problem
[10:33] vladb: I figured node scripts are respawned on each new request
[10:33] chakrit: vladb: Hope I didn't give you more questions than answers :)
[10:34] vladb: nah... maybe if I moved Sphinx.connect outside of http.createServer
[10:36] chakrit: Mmm... I don't think that'll work... do yuo control limestone.js?
[10:36] chakrit: You see on line 271 in Spinx.query
[10:37] chakrit: Everytime you call a .query, a new listener will be added.
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[10:37] chakrit: and the old isn't even removed yet.
[10:38] chakrit: unless, you disconnect and then re-connect
[10:38] vladb: I was
[10:38] chakrit: which will re-create the server_conn tcp connection
[10:38] vladb: was calling limestone.connect inside createServer and disconnecting later on
[10:39] chakrit: but the server_conn is shared... so can't really use it concurrently reliably
[10:39] chakrit: Well, you can build a "queue" infront of limestone
[10:39] chakrit: to fix the server_conn problem
[10:40] chakrit: you follow?
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[10:41] chakrit: i.e. for each call to .connect and .query, the callbacks is added to a backing queue
[10:42] chakrit: and a timer checks the queue periodically and run the .connect/.query on Sphinx
[10:42] chakrit: and then make sure that the callbacks are run in order
[10:42] chakrit: and that .connect/.query/.disconnect order is preserved.
[10:42] vladb: hmm okay
[10:43] vladb: I'll see if I figure it out or just give up and use php :)
[10:43] vladb: thanks man
[10:43] chakrit: welcome :)
[10:45] chakrit: on a side note, I think it might be easier to fork and fix limestone.js to stop sharing server_conn.
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[12:17] micheil: jedschmidt: well, heroku's mongo support is through mongohq
[12:17] jedschmidt: micheil: ah, i didn't realize that. so it's the same thing, just integrated for you?
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[12:19] micheil: yeah
[12:20] micheil: jedschmidt: also, I know of mongohq being used in fairly large deployments, in cases where a dump file will be >20GB's
[12:20] micheil: although, I'd have to check for the exact sizes
[12:20] micheil: jedschmidt: I have been thinking of implementing John Nunemaker's wonderful MongoMapper in js
[12:21] micheil: (for node)
[12:23] jedschmidt: micheil: cool, checking it out now. so i guess latency isn't too bad if both heroku and mongohq are on ec2?
[12:24] micheil: yeah, latency wouldn't be too bvad
[12:24] micheil: *bad
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[12:25] micheil: vladb: that's the first time I've seen eventEmitter used like that, generally it's initialised and then inherited into a constructor
[12:26] micheil: vladb: another thing, do you know if connection.query(...) is returning the connection object or a new object?
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[12:48] micheil: jedschmidt: did you say that there were notes with your slides on flickr
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[12:54] mjijackson: micheil: yes. there are notes with the slides
[12:54] micheil: jedschmidt: just reviewing those slides with the notes showing ;P
[12:54] jedschmidt: micheil: ah, yeah. meaningless without notes, for sure.
[12:54] micheil: thanks; hopefully this will help me actually understand the () crazyness
[12:54] jedschmidt: micheil: hopefully it'll make more sense.
[12:55] jedschmidt: micheil: it's not that crazy! just another way of making a list.
[12:55] micheil: it is crazy :P
[12:55] mjijackson: it can get messy real quick if you don't keep everything indented properly
[12:56] micheil: 
ACTION goes to view these slides, flash is doing crazy stuff to my cursor; or it's the ()'s ;p

[12:57] jedschmidt: mjijackson: true of most code, i'd imagine.
[12:58] mjijackson: jedschmidt: true. only difference is that no editor on earth will help me distinguish between a binary and a ternary app! ;)
[12:58] ryan[WIN]: o hai palz
[12:59] jedschmidt: mjijackson: fair point. the ugly truth is that n can also be greater than 3...
[12:59] jedschmidt: mjijackson: though it's possible to run your app constantly to figure out your current arity.
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[13:00] micheil: jedschmidt: translating japanese must be a bit of a job
[13:00] jedschmidt: micheil: it's actually pretty easy in my field. just repetitive.
[13:00] jedschmidt: micheil: learning it was that hard part.
[13:01] micheil: heh, it's rather interesting to know the backgrounds from which people come into things like opensource and programming
[13:01] micheil: jedschmidt: yeah, I know learning japanese is hard. :P
[13:01] micheil: jedschmidt: I had to learn hiragana in the first years of high school
[13:03] jedschmidt: micheil: oh yeah? all my HS had was spanish, french, and russian.
[13:04] micheil: yeah, we only have the choice of japanese here, but I'd really rather try and learn german (I was but teaching yourself is hard)
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[13:04] micheil: typd.in looks pretty cool as well
[13:05] jedschmidt: yeah, thank god for node, otherwise i'd still be relegated to bookmarklets.
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[13:07] micheil: jedschmidt: I think the best apps come from a polyglot of backgrounds
[13:07] mjijackson: jedschmidt: cool. i don't mean to sound negative btw. (fab) is a really creative piece of work. a really interesting way of looking at the whole issue of creating web apps
[13:08] jedschmidt: mjijackson: ha, no sweat. i'm looking forward to getting things stable so i can build my own stuff on it.
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[13:11] micheil: jedschmidt: I have to say, it's very.. unconventional
[13:11] micheil: jedschmidt: how would you handle complex actions within fab?
[13:12] jedschmidt: micheil: like what?
[13:12] jedschmidt: micheil: (the idea being that any complex action can be split into smaller parts...)
[13:12] micheil: well, something that interacts with a database, uses a cookie for a session and then renders a template to a user?
[13:13] micheil: traditionally you'd stick that all in one method call
[13:13] micheil: is the idea in fab to break that all into small parts (which may also have a negative effect due to emitters)
[13:14] jedschmidt: micheil: well, cookie would be a binary app. reads the cookie header, adds any relevant info to the head, and passes it upstream.
[13:14] micheil: okay
[13:14] jedschmidt: micheil: database is a unary app that queries the database based on the contents of the head/body
[13:15] micheil: database would probably be binary or ternary
[13:15] benoitc: mmm wher i'm wrong here http://friendpaste.com/IcRtbHFhXTqeBruu5x0Na the update_config is always called after first change to the file :/
[13:15] micheil: oh, okay
[13:15] jedschmidt: template is an n-ary app that turns the database response into a stream that's sent back to the client.
[13:16] micheil: benoitc: that would be correct
[13:16] micheil: jedschmidt: you'll be yet to convince me on how it works, I'll go back to the slides
[13:17] benoitc: hum so i don't know why the update is always called mmm maybe it's due to osx
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[13:21] micheil: jedschmidt: do one thing and do it really well aproach?
[13:22] jedschmidt: micheil: yeah, i'm trying to keep things isolated so that they're predictable and easy to test.
[13:22] micheil: okay
[13:23] jedschmidt: aight, time to head home. drop a line if you have any questions, jah?
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[13:23] micheil: so in the case of the regex one, (^/home$) that just tests if req.url.match() the regex?
[13:23] micheil: oh
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[13:46] augustl: is there a generic header parser for http-like headers? Implementing websocket, need to read headers, don't want to reinvent the wheel.
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[13:52] robinduckett: @augustl headers.split(/([\w-_]+):\s?(.*)/g)
[13:52] robinduckett: :P
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[13:54] micheil: augustl: implement them on top of node's http module, I have had patches added to node to allow doing this
[13:54] micheil: augustl: btw, make sure you do websockets' to the spec if you're doing them, otherwise you'll run into issues
[13:55] mjijackson: augustl: http headers are a complex problem to solve correctly. i'm not aware of any js library that has tackled it
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[13:56] augustl: mjijackson: really? I thought they were just /^([^:]+):(.+)$/ :)
[13:57] augustl: micheil: currently reverse engineering it by hitting f5 in chrome, heh
[13:57] micheil: augustl: no, there is a specification, use it. It's there to help
[13:57] mjijackson: augustl: :O wow! you just solved it! right on. ;)
[13:58] robinduckett: I SOLVED IT FIRST
[13:58] robinduckett: HATEZ:(
[13:58] micheil: this is the one currently implemented in chrome: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-75
[13:58] micheil: augustl: as for doing http header parsing, use the http library.
[13:58] augustl: mjijackson: out of curiosity, what else is there?
[13:58] micheil: augustl: then you just need to listen to the server event "upgrade"
[13:59] mjijackson: micheil: the http lib will only help with chunking the response into headers and body
[13:59] micheil: being that you'll probably implement the chrome version (draft75), then you don't need to worry about the argument that the upgrade event comes with
[13:59] micheil: mjijackson: no, it won't.
[13:59] micheil: 
ACTION wrote the patches to do this, I think I know about it. >_>

[14:00] mjijackson: augustl: http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec14.html
[14:00] mjijackson: micheil: you mean node has support for all http headers?
[14:00] micheil: yes
[14:00] micheil: it has a http parser that is extremely fast
[14:00] micheil: and unless there an untested fringe case that breaks it handles all http headers.
[14:01] micheil: it's called http_parser, it's written in C
[14:01] micheil: it's in ry's github repo.
[14:01] micheil: _ry: ping?
[14:02] mjijackson: micheil: i think we're talking about two different things.
[14:02] micheil: augustl: one second, I'll find you the example websocket server using the upgrade event, there's also one in test/simple/http-upgrade.js
[14:02] micheil: mjijackson: how?
[14:03] mjijackson: micheil: i'm talking about actually *interpreting* the headers. you're talking about parsing them into field/value, right?
[14:03] micheil: http://gist.github.com/389202
[14:03] micheil: that is how you should be implementing a websocket server in node
[14:04] micheil: mjijackson: interpreting the values is left to you, unless it is a upgrade header, in which case node will stop after it parses the first packet (headers + possible body), then it'll unattach the ondata handlers on the stream, and leave it to you to reattach
[14:04] mjijackson: micheil: for example, the correct interpretation of an Accept header can be tricky to get right. 
[14:05] micheil: mjijackson: it's up to your handler to interpret the Accept header.
[14:05] micheil: that will be in the req.headers object
[14:05] micheil: so, req.headers.accept
[14:06] mjijackson: right. that's what i mean. there's no lib for parsing/interpreting the actual header values. just for parsing them into req.headers. once they're in req.headers though there's still a lot of parsing to be done for some of them.
[14:06] mjijackson: that's all i was trying to say
[14:06] augustl: micheil: wow, tnx for that paste
[14:06] mjijackson: of course, for a websocket server the current support should be sufficient
[14:06] micheil: augustl: no worries.
[14:06] augustl: upgrade event looks nice
[14:07] micheil: mjijackson: there is for the upgrade headers
[14:07] micheil: and that's what should be used.
[14:07] augustl: so if the upgrade header is set, the upgrade event fires instead of the data event?
[14:07] micheil: augustl: it's not placed within the createServer()
[14:07] micheil: it's attached to the server, like server.listen()
[14:07] augustl: ah, that websocket implementation is using a http server as it's base server, not a raw socket.
[14:07] micheil: server.addListener("upgrade", function(){...});
[14:08] micheil: yes
[14:08] micheil: then you have access to the raw socket on the req that is passed down the upgrade event
[14:08] micheil: req in the context of upgrade is the same as the context of request
[14:09] micheil: in http.createServer the function you pass into that is actually just added as a listener to the request event
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[14:11] micheil: augustl: if you look in /test/simple/test-http-upgrade.js and test-http-upgrade2.js, you can see the upgrade event in more useful action
[14:11] micheil: (a slight partial of the websocket server implementation, actually, as it's a practical test case)
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[14:13] micheil: augustl: if you don't want to implement a websocket server, I do actually have an implementation, but it does have bugs
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[14:24] augustl: micheil: I would like to write my own to learn, but thanks anyway :)
[14:24] micheil: okay, no worries :)
[14:24] augustl: I would really like a low level websocket lib, though, the ones I've found are a bit too magic..
[14:24] micheil: use it as reference, it's opensource.
[14:24] augustl: like, as low level as the http and net lib bundled in node
[14:25] micheil: http://github.com/miksago/node-websocket-server/tree/development
[14:25] micheil: I'm trying to make mine a bit low-level, but also containing higher level concepts
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[14:32] augustl: nice
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[14:34] micheil: but yeah, it's a little broken
[14:34] micheil: I've had some issues with writable streams and such
[14:34] augustl: tnx for all the input :)
[14:34] augustl: got to go, later
[14:35] micheil: no worries, opensource is for sharing.
[14:35] augustl: :)
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[15:32] bigwavejake: i'm new to node.js and javascript.  how would I scape a webpage with node.js?
[15:33] bigwavejake: *scrape
[15:34] bigwavejake: how do I connect to a website and return the contents as a string?
[15:34] mape: bigwavejake: using a http client
[15:35] _ry: bigwavejake: there is an html parser out there
[15:35] _ry: you can load it up - manipulate it with dom
[15:35] mape: bigwavejake: http://nodejs.org/api.html#http-client-173
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[15:36] bigwavejake: i see now, in the docs
[15:36] bigwavejake: http.Client
[15:36] bigwavejake: ok
[15:36] bigwavejake: thanks!
[15:36] _ry: bigwavejake: http://github.com/tautologistics/node-htmlparser
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[15:37] bigwavejake: _ry, wow, awesome!  thanks!
[15:38] _ry: bigwavejake: all this stuff is pretty new - expect a bit of pain :)
[15:38] _ry: bigwavejake: you might want to try this too http://github.com/tmpvar/jsdom
[15:39] sveisvei: pant™
[15:39] sveisvei: aff pain™
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[15:45] _ry: anger. not sure what's wrong with idle watcher...
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[15:47] micheil: shite. I have a feeling (Fab) is really growing on me.
[15:47] micheil: :D
[15:47] micheil: just wrote (/^\/index/, function(){}) in some frontend code..
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[15:51] _ry: micheil: how's websockets?
[15:51] micheil: busy working on a new frontend library
[15:51] felixge: _ry: http://github.com/felixge/node-formidable/blob/master/lib/formidable/multipart_parser.js#L203-212
[15:51] felixge: _ry: 16 mb / sec -> 400 mb / sec++ (depends on the length of the boundary string)
[15:51] felixge: _ry: thanks :)
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[15:52] gf3: rdrake: NO U
[15:52] gf3: felixge: got your streaming search working?
[15:53] felixge: gf3: yes :)
[15:53] felixge: gf3: took a while until I realized that using a simplified version of the algorithm was all I need
[15:53] felixge: basically I don't use boyer-moore to find the offset of the boundary, but just to skip data that does not have
[15:53] felixge: * not have it
[15:54] felixge: once I find some data that looks like it could contain a boundary, I switch over to my old byte-by-byte analysis
[15:54] gf3: felixge: hot. And you were able to obtain the performance you expected?
[15:54] felixge: it's not optimized for worst-case scenarios at all, but those are highly unlikely to contain with the binary data one would expect in big multipart messages
[15:55] felixge: gf3: yes!
[15:55] avidal: mmmm
[15:55] _ry: felixge: very good
[15:55] gf3: felixge: that's awesome
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[15:56] JimBastard: happy cake
[15:56] _ry: felixge: so i wonder if you can do better
[15:56] felixge: _ry: now I'm thinking about the API for this lib, and the more I think, the more I wish I could get this into node -> req.addListener('file', ...) would activate the machinery
[15:56] _ry: btw are you meaning mbyte or mbit?
[15:56] felixge: _ry: mbyte!
[15:56] felixge: _ry: it seems really plenty fast to me at this point : )
[15:57] _ry: okay
[15:57] _ry: nevermind then
[15:57] _ry: that's good :)
[15:57] _ry: i think there is another level of speed we could take it to
[15:57] JimBastard: hey guys i just read about node online on this blog and i was wondering if i could use node to build a website
[15:57] _ry: by doing the parsing in the thread pool
[15:57] _ry: and in parallel
[15:57] felixge: _ry: probably :)
[15:57] _ry: so that multiple uplaods would be parsed at the sametime
[15:58] felixge: _ry: I guess in terms of algorithm you won't get faster for the best-case, but you could optimize for worst-case a lot more
[15:58] nefD: wheee
[15:58] felixge: _ry: well, the uploads come in as very small chunks, so the parser is pretty much non-blocking / no?
[15:59] _ry: yes
[15:59] _ry: pretty much
[15:59] _ry: it might actually slow it down by going to the thread pool
[15:59] micheil: I think I may just have the beginnings of a Fab for frontend.
[15:59] _ry: there are costs involved with sending it out context switching, pulling it back
[15:59] felixge: _ry: anyway, how do you feel about req.addListener('file') / req.addListener('field')
[15:59] felixge: _ry: I think node should really support parsing form data nicely
[16:00] _ry: felixge: explain it to me - 'file' is for 'part' ?
[16:00] felixge: _ry: file is for 'file' parts
[16:00] _ry: what do the other parts look like?
[16:00] JimBastard: micheil: one day i hope to be smart enough to understand fab
[16:00] felixge: _ry: so it would probably return a file object which may have a file.streamToTmpFile() method
[16:00] _ry: x-form?
[16:00] micheil: JimBastard: check out the flickr slides
[16:00] felixge: _ry: The other parts are just strings
[16:00] JimBastard: ahaha i was there in person micheil 
[16:00] felixge: _ry: So I think we should emit them as strings
[16:00] micheil: JimBastard: I did tonight, that's wheere I've learnt it
[16:00] micheil: JimBastard: oh
[16:01] _ry: felixge: buffer them?
[16:01] JimBastard: jed just makes everything seem so complicated, maybe its just me
[16:01] felixge: _ry: Yes. But only if a 'field' listener is attached
[16:01] _ry: felixge: okay
[16:01] felixge: _ry: and using a reasonable buffer size (4k) ?
[16:01] micheil: JimBastard: the slides help heaps. I've only just understood it, now I think it's awesome
[16:01] _ry: felixge: what sort of data might be in a 'field?
[16:02] JimBastard: i'll wait till there is a complex fab app i can walk through the code on
[16:02] felixge: _ry: <input type="text'>
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[16:02] _ry: 4k seems too small
[16:02] felixge: JimBastard: jed talks too much meta talk, I agree :)
[16:02] felixge: _ry: it would have to be user configurable
[16:02] maushu: I wonder if node.js http server would survive a slashdot.
[16:02] felixge: _ry: but the default should be low-enough to not become a liability
[16:03] JimBastard: felixge: i actually wanted to bug you a bit about how dirty does its speed tests
[16:03] JimBastard: if you have a free moment at some point
[16:03] felixge: JimBastard: I'm working on a lib for that
[16:03] felixge: JimBastard: I have to time planned to hack on this over the weekend
[16:03] felixge: _ry: If you'd like I'd come up with a few API propsals for how we could do this
[16:04] felixge: _ry: sounds good?
[16:04] _ry: felixge: sure - i think your parser looks good
[16:04] _ry: we should pull it in
[16:04] felixge: _ry: :) Thanks, that feels very good hearing from you :)
[16:04] felixge: (I have to admit I pretty much just looked are your http parser and tried to not do things much worse than that ^^)
[16:05] JimBastard: maushu: 1.93 survived for me the other day
[16:05] JimBastard: i dont have an exact count
[16:05] JimBastard: but i got over 40k hits in a few hours
[16:05] maushu: Hmmm. I was thinking more in the lines of 900k.
[16:06] maushu: Like, slashdot apocalypse.
[16:06] felixge: maushu: I think node will surrive this traffic easily unless you hit a buggy codepath :)
[16:06] maushu: "MY SERVER! IT'S ON FIRE!"
[16:06] felixge: maushu: (assuming you output hello world)
[16:06] _ry: maushu: yeah - theoretically - i think it will be okay. practically there is probably some bug
[16:07] maushu: felixge: Obviously. Even the best servers can slow down alot when using bad script (php and so on).
[16:07] _ry: so, in short, no it probably wont survive :)
[16:07] felixge: maushu: 900k hits is 10 hits/sec over 25h :)
[16:07] felixge: * 24h
[16:07] _ry: but i vow that one day it will
[16:07] maushu: _ry: Unless we scale it horizontally.
[16:07] _ry: horizonal scaling is for pussys
[16:07] maushu: ...
[16:07] JimBastard: 1.92 couldnt handle it for me
[16:07] _ry: 1 process
[16:07] JimBastard: but 1.93 did
[16:08] JimBastard: (there was a bug i hit)
[16:08] gf3: hehehe "_ry:	horizonal scaling is for pussys"
[16:08] maushu: I was thinking more in the lines of multiple servers.
[16:08] _ry: nah
[16:08] _ry: 1 server, 1 process
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[16:08] maushu: Woah.
[16:08] _ry: it should handle 10 req/sec
[16:08] maushu: You just saved ipv6 _ry!
[16:08] javajunky: hmm you still need redundancy no matter how great the 1 process is right ? ..physical systems fail ;)
[16:08] maushu: I mean, ipv4.
[16:08] _ry: javajunky: yeah that's true
[16:09] _ry: i mean right now - slashdot is going to kill it - because it's going to hit a bug
[16:09] maushu: javajunky: No it doesn't. Node.js will fix your server while running.
[16:09] javajunky: maushu: handy ;)
[16:09] _ry: but supposing the bugs weren't there? it's not going to incur a high load
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[16:10] felixge: I surrived digg front page with a self-build CakePHP blog with not much caching
[16:10] maushu: _ry: Well, a way to prevent finding that bug at the critical momment is using multiple node.js servers like I said.
[16:10] felixge: you really need more than a heavy incoming link for "serious" traffic
[16:10] felixge: :)
[16:10] _ry: maushu: sure
[16:10] JimBastard: i use to run this no rules wiki that ran wikimedia, now that shit choked
[16:10] JimBastard: i was getting 50k uniques a day, it was just soo bad
[16:10] JimBastard: sooo bad
[16:11] JimBastard: php + mediawiki = 5th circle of server hell
[16:11] maushu: No rules wiki?
[16:11] JimBastard: yeah, retardbox.com
[16:11] maushu: People were obviously uploading porn.
[16:11] _ry: i'm just being boorish
[16:11] JimBastard: naaah, it was much worse maushu.....it was full of retards
[16:11] maushu: ...which were uploading porn.
[16:11] felixge: JimBastard: :D
[16:11] JimBastard: and editing battles on pages were encouraged
[16:11] maushu: And lolcats.
[16:12] JimBastard: well 
[16:12] chewbranca has joined the channel
[16:12] JimBastard: we aliased sexcriminaldatabase.com
[16:12] JimBastard: and internetfactsite.com
[16:12] JimBastard: to the domain
[16:12] JimBastard: so you could build
[16:12] JimBastard: sexcriminaldatabase.com/mausha
[16:12] JimBastard: really upset some people....and their google rank
[16:12] JimBastard: im kinda glad im not working on that project anymore, but it was fun
[16:13] maushu: JimBastard: Why don't you remake the wiki in node.js for the kicks? Make it from the ground up ready for editing battles.
[16:14] _ry: wiki = boring demo
[16:14] maushu: You could go crazy and make a clan system like on normal games.... and a vote system for article deletion. See what I did there? :3
[16:14] _ry: realtime wiki might be cool
[16:14] javajunky: anyone written any wave bots ? /..anyone remember wave ?
[16:14] technoweenie has joined the channel
[16:14] maushu: With editing battles! \o/
[16:15] JimBastard: i built a wiki in node
[16:15] JimBastard: in nov or so
[16:15] JimBastard: showed it off at nyc.js
[16:15] JimBastard: the code was shit though
[16:15] JimBastard: not release worthy
[16:15] JimBastard: (one of my first node apps)
[16:16] JimBastard: javajunky: i had an idea for a google wave clone, call it tsunami 
[16:16] JimBastard: :-D
[16:16] javajunky: ;)
[16:16] nefD: 'giant stinging japanese jelly fish'
[16:16] JimBastard: theres a lot of awesome node apps to be written
[16:17] JimBastard: the problem im having auto deployment and common web event system
[16:17] JimBastard: i dont want to have to do all that work everytime
[16:17] JimBastard: so im trying to beast through broodmother and hook.io >.<
[16:17] JimBastard: one....commit....at...a..time...
[16:19] jedschmidt has joined the channel
[16:19] JimBastard: zzt looks like its gonna be cool though
[16:19] JimBastard: zztmmo
[16:19] JimBastard: if anyone wants to step up and do the websocket implementation let me know
[16:19] JimBastard: i think we gonna do websockets with a swf fall back
[16:19] _ry: felixge: you should make a little script to benchmark your parser - it'd be good for the builtbots
[16:20] _ry: like with a real http server and curl - or whatever you use
[16:20] felixge: _ry: http://github.com/felixge/node-formidable/blob/master/benchmark/bench-multipart-parser.js
[16:21] fizx has joined the channel
[16:21] _ry: cool
[16:21] felixge: _ry: I'd have to get rid of that custom assert.callbacks I'm using, but otherwise this should be ready to go :)
[16:21] fizx has joined the channel
[16:22] felixge: _ry: btw. I've tested with buffers as large as 1GB, node handles it really nicely - great job on the buffers stuff!
[16:22] _ry: the perf graphs are messed up at the moment
[16:22] _ry: but it want to start getting them displaying cool stuff
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[16:25] mjr_: _ry: does the OSX buildbot work?
[16:27] _ry: mm seems like it wasn't receving the latest commands
[16:27] _ry: but if i force a build it works
[16:28] _ry: arlo said there were some problems with the buildbots - he's going to work on it this weekend
[16:28] _ry: we could probably lose one of the linux bots
[16:28] mjr_: OK, just checking.  I've barely looked at that machine.  Just installed buildbot and walked away.
[16:28] _ry: it's building something now: http://buildbot.nodejs.org:8010/builders/OSX/builds/1
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[16:34] micheil: okay. building something that uses fab's syntax is hard. back to the original plan.
[16:34] JimBastard: LOL
[16:34] JimBastard: THAT WAS QUICK micheil 
[16:35] micheil: JimBastard: let me rephrase: Building a framework that uses fab's syntax is hard
[16:35] JimBastard: hee hee
[16:35] micheil: framework being for the frontend
[16:37] JimBastard: im working on front-end frameworks for the next two months or so at work
[16:37] JimBastard: there might be an OS project behind it
[16:37] felixge: _ry: https://gist.github.com/ef6c15cc39f03d70b19b
[16:37] JimBastard: what kinda of front-end you working on
[16:37] felixge: anybody who cares about POST data / file uploads, take a look
[16:37] saikat: fictorial: so if i understand correctly, the issue was that even if the encoding is specified as "binary" as it was in my files, readFileSync returned a binary string instead of a buffer, and redis-client tried to write this binary string using utf-8?
[16:39] saikat: also, thanks for fixing that so fast =)
[16:39] bpot has joined the channel
[16:39] avidal: what's the coolest thing done with node.js so far
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[16:41] micheil: JimBastard: one that's sorta sammy, but less sammy, and more just organisation
[16:41] felixge_: _ry: headed out in a bit, any thoughts?
[16:41] micheil: JimBastard: just an idea I'm running with
[16:42] gwoo: felixge: what about using a similar object for "part" and "file"
[16:42] riottaba_ has joined the channel
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[16:43] gwoo: felixge_: ^^
[16:44] felixge_: gwoo: why?
[16:44] gwoo: easier to remember
[16:44] gwoo: simpler callback
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[16:45] javajunky: micheil: lolz… I'd love fab to work, I love it in concept, I just fail whenever I want to do something with it ;)
[16:45] micheil: javajunky: this is sorta fab on the frontend, node in node.
[16:45] micheil: *not in node
[16:46] mjijackson: felixge_: that looks good. i like the amount of fine-grained control. most of the time people can use "file", but occasionally someone might want to use "part"
[16:46] fictorial: saikat: yes, correct.  It seems that binary-encoded strings and Buffers will just lead to confusion, and binary should go away. But, I haven't thought through the implications of that.
[16:47] mjijackson has joined the channel
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[16:47] fictorial: In fact, it seems that fs.readFile is returning a Buffer as of yesterday's patches so there you go
[16:47] fictorial: (by default)
[16:48] _ry: felixge_: mkstemp(3) do we have binding for that?
[16:48] felixge_: _ry: no binding for this yet, but I have some time I can spend on all of this
[16:48] felixge_: _ry: and we could get away with doing this step by step
[16:48] felixge_: _ry: i.e. adding 'part' first
[16:49] felixge_: _ry: or just defaulting to '/tmp/xxxxxx' for  now
[16:49] _ry: i don't think buffering the whole thing is a good diea
[16:49] _ry: or?
[16:49] felixge_: _ry: buffering what?
[16:49] _ry: req.addListener('fields', function(fields, files) {
[16:49] felixge_: _ry: I think it's what most people would use
[16:50] _ry: hmm
[16:50] felixge_: _ry: this is how PHP / Rails / etc. work (afaik?)
[16:50] _ry: req.setBuffersize(8 * 1024); // optional, default 1mb ?
[16:50] _ry: ^-- this can just be a member?
[16:51] kriskowal has joined the channel
[16:51] felixge_: _ry: yes, could just be a member
[16:51] felixge_: _ry: same for the tmpDir I guess
[16:51] felixge_: *uploadDir that is
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[16:53] felixge_: _ry: part would also have a part.toFile(path, cb) method I guess, which would be used internally as well
[16:53] mjijackson: felixge_: yes. from the PHP manual: "Files will, by default be stored in the server's default temporary directory, unless another location has been given with the http://www.php.net/manual/en/ini.core.php#ini.upload-tmp-dir directive in php.ini."
[16:53] felixge_: _ry: this way people can decide which parts to use / not on a case by case basis
[16:54] felixge_: but still get high-level awesomeness
[16:54] felixge_: mjijackson: yeah, I wasn't so sure for Ruby, PHP I know
[16:56] towski has joined the channel
[16:57] felixge_: _ry: https://gist.github.com/ef6c15cc39f03d70b19b <- updated
[16:58] felixge_: _ry: how do you feel about this in general? Worth pursuing?
[16:58] _ry: yeah
[16:58] _ry: seems okay
[16:58] _ry: i mean
[16:59] _ry: the part thing - i'd like it to just be a stream
[16:59] _ry: not have part.streamToFile(path, cb);
[16:59] saikat: fictorial: i was also thinking about what you said about ym problem yesterday (that i could use a stack to store the keys, and then just pop off the stack when the callbacks happen)
[16:59] saikat: but wouldn't that have a problem if the callbacks didn't happen in the reverse order in which they were made
[16:59] fermion has joined the channel
[16:59] saikat: which would occur if any one of the callbacks had any kind of delay (say redis is overtaxed)
[17:00] felixge_: _ry: fine with me
[17:00] felixge_: _ry: but it would need the additional properties
[17:00] fictorial: saikat: redis always responds in the same order as submitted commands per client, so really you'd want a queue
[17:00] felixge_: _ry: I guess name + headers  at a minimum
[17:00] _ry: fictorial: same with bufferToString
[17:00] _ry: felixge_: yeah
[17:00] saikat: ah ok
[17:00] _ry: er
[17:00] fictorial: _ry: sorry?
[17:00] _ry: that was for felix
[17:00] saikat: thanks
[17:00] felixge_: _ry: ok, sounds good
[17:01] _ry: felixge_: so - let's just do the part interface now?
[17:01] felixge_: _ry: yeah
[17:01] _ry: ok
[17:01] felixge_: _ry: and I guess only support for multipart
[17:01] felixge_: _ry: but I also want to make the querystring module act as a non-blocking parser
[17:01] felixge_: * streaming-parser
[17:01] _ry: ah
[17:01] _ry: um okay
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[17:01] felixge_: this interface should work for both content types
[17:01] _ry: it can be a separate thing though?
[17:02] felixge_: _ry: what do you mean by separate ?
[17:02] _ry: those x-www-form things don't get very long, do they?
[17:02] _ry: i mean - it's not really a mime message
[17:02] _ry: it'd require a different parser
[17:03] felixge_: _ry: yes, it would be a different parser
[17:03] _ry: but sure - making a querystring/x-www-form/cookie parser which streamed
[17:03] _ry: would be good
[17:03] HansInEffect has joined the channel
[17:03] _ry: as long as the degenerate case was just as fast :)
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[17:04] felixge_: _ry: degenerate = buffering and then parsing?
[17:04] _ry: i'm sure 99.999% of cases you'll parse it in one go
[17:04] HansInEffect: Is it possible to do "require('../someOtherDir/file')?
[17:04] felixge_: Hnasyeah
[17:05] fermion: hey all — can anyone tell me definitively if there is or isn't a way to make express behave like Rails in development mode?  i.e., reload models, etc. as well as views?
[17:05] _ry: i guess the one case is a x-www-form with textarea
[17:05] HansInEffect: felixge_: I'm getting an error message trying to do that :(
[17:05] _ry: could be a couple kb
[17:05] felixge_: _ry: right, when you get CMS systems with WYSIWYG editors those fields can get quite big
[17:05] felixge_: 500kb can happen easily
[17:05] _ry: i believe it
[17:05] felixge_: anything > 100kb seems worse streaming to me 
[17:05] felixge_: :)
[17:05] _ry: 500kb seems a bi much
[17:06] HansInEffect: felixge_: NM I had the directory wrong. Just some user error
[17:06] felixge_: * worth
[17:06] _ry: agreed
[17:06] _ry: although that data basically gets buffered anyway
[17:06] _ry: after you parse it
[17:06] felixge_: _ry: yeah, I don't see a big need for it either
[17:06] _ry: if so, there isn't much point in streaming it
[17:06] felixge_: _ry: It's more about API consistency I guess
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[17:07] felixge_: If you name something 'field' people will expect it to work
[17:07] felixge_: regardless how the form is structured
[17:07] felixge_: even so I think most people will just use 'fields'
[17:07] _ry: felixge_: oh wait
[17:07] felixge_: because that is what they are used to from other environments
[17:07] _ry: i don't want this on the req object though
[17:07] felixge_: and it's actually efficient enough for 90% of all cases
[17:07] felixge_: _ry: ?
[17:07] _ry: or do i?
[17:07] felixge_: _ry: why not?
[17:07] felixge_: _ry: it seems very natural there
[17:08] _ry: i mean, seems like it could be a separate lib
[17:08] felixge_: _ry: and it doesn't mess with the other events
[17:08] felixge_: _ry: This is part of HTTP, it belongs there
[17:08] _ry: i suppose...
[17:09] _ry: i mean i totally expect express or geddy to give that sort of nice interface
[17:09] _ry: hmm
[17:09] felixge_: _ry: I'd like to be able to write basic web apps without express
[17:09] felixge_: and parsing a form is as basic as it gets
[17:10] felixge_: _ry: if you want node to get a big adoption, then users shouldn't have to manually require modules for parsing a form - even if they are in node -core
[17:10] felixge_: I mean we shouldn't go too high level
[17:10] felixge_: but parsing forms *IS* the web
[17:10] felixge_: at least the web 2.0
[17:10] felixge_: ;)
[17:10] _ry: well, i don't loading up this parser to affect my 'hello world' numbers
[17:11] _ry: hmm...
[17:11] felixge_: _ry: it wouldn't. The parser would hook into the 'data' event only when you add a listener that requires it
[17:11] _ry: require('multipart').parseMessage(req)
[17:11] _ry: seems easy enough :)
[17:11] felixge_: _ry: similar to how you handle process signals right now
[17:11] felixge_: _ry: it looks easy because you didn't provide any interface ;)
[17:11] felixge_: _ry: and you expect your form to be multipart
[17:12] _ry: how do i know anyway if my req is multipart ?
[17:12] felixge_: People who use Rails/PHP may not even know what multipart uploads are
[17:12] _ry: in your interface?
[17:12] felixge_: they just know "form" -> $_POST + $_FILES
[17:12] felixge_: _ry: when you add the first listener it looks at the headers to determine it
[17:13] felixge_: _ry: this is the part where node should be easy for frontend developers, not Unix hackers :)
[17:13] fictorial: I got disconnected about 20x last night. Sorry to re-ask but is there / will there be support for UDP in Node.js?
[17:13] _ry: i agree it should be easy - i just don't want to complicated the interface too much
[17:14] _ry: the http server presents an interface at a certain level - the level of messages
[17:14] _ry: this is one level up
[17:14] felixge_: _ry: no, you already to chunked decoding
[17:14] felixge_: _ry: this isn't much different
[17:14] _ry: fictorial: eventually not for 0.2
[17:14] fictorial: _ry: ok, thanks
[17:14] _ry: s/eventually/eventually,/
[17:15] mjr_ has joined the channel
[17:15] fictorial: hehe -- first read that as "we're taking it out for 0.2" :)
[17:15] _ry: felixge_: chunked encoding is part of understanding the message length
[17:15] _ry: it's not payload
[17:15] felixge_: _ry: 99% of all messages (that have a body) will be multipart or form-data
[17:15] felixge_: _ry: how much is your abstraction worth if it fails to match reality?
[17:16] _ry: felixge_: for web app, yes
[17:16] felixge_: ;)
[17:16] felixge_: _ry: what other apps use http?
[17:16] _ry: rest apps
[17:16] _ry: i mean - we don't parse the url either
[17:17] felixge_: _ry: that's just because we want to be fast for hello world ;)
[17:17] _ry: but it also make sense - it's a different layer
[17:17] charlesjolley_ has joined the channel
[17:17] _ry: the 'http' lib lets you know the string in that spot
[17:17] javajunky has joined the channel
[17:17] _ry: but it doesn't help you understand it
[17:17] _ry: it gives you payload - but it doesn't parse it for you
[17:18] felixge_: _ry: I mean I absolutely agree with you on a theoretic level. But besides node, my favorite library ever is named jQuery. So when I ask myself "what would jQuery do?", then the answer is clear :)
[17:19] _ry: now - i think that's debatable whether it's the right approach
[17:19] _ry: but i think that's the status quo
[17:19] _ry: felixge_: also i might want to parse mime messages
[17:20] _ry: theoretically your parser could be used for those
[17:20] felixge_: _ry: the parser would be a module of its own
[17:20] trop has joined the channel
[17:20] felixge_: (even so right now it doesn't support nested multipart, isaacs would probably happily hack that in)
[17:20] _ry: (parsing mime would be great - and probably would introduce a whole new set of concerns)
[17:21] felixge_: anyway, the alternative would be a <form> module I guess
[17:21] _ry: oh
[17:21] _ry: i love the sound of that
[17:21] felixge_: new IncomingForm(req)
[17:21] _ry: i love it
[17:21] _ry: require('form')
[17:21] felixge_: that was my initial idea with formidable
[17:22] _ry: form.isForm(req) 
[17:22] felixge_: _ry: yeah, and we could put a bunch of stuff in there to make using http client easier
[17:22] r1ngzer0 has joined the channel
[17:22] _ry: s = form.stream(req);
[17:22] felixge_: for building forms
[17:22] _ry: s.addlistener('part')
[17:22] felixge_: _ry: well, if you name it 'form' you have to expect that you need Incoming as well as Outgoing form support
[17:22] felixge_: so you can't just do form.Stream
[17:23] felixge_: but yeah
[17:23] _ry: felixge_: hm
[17:23] felixge_: s = new form.IncomingForm(req)
[17:23] felixge_: or sth
[17:23] JimBastard: 
ACTION is trolling #RoR on my lunchbreak

[17:24] JimBastard: [13:20] <JimBastard> heh can you make websites in RoR? [13:20] <JimBastard> i think i want to build a website
[17:24] JimBastard: [13:24] <JimBastard> its pretty sweet imho
[17:24] paul__ has joined the channel
[17:25] felixge_: _ry: anyway, I guess I'm fine with going that route
[17:25] marktlang has joined the channel
[17:26] felixge_: _ry: I'm going home now, but let me know when you've thought about the form module a little further. I'd rather work on that instead of continuing with formidable
[17:28] _ry: okay
[17:28] _ry: ttyl
[17:28] mikeal has joined the channel
[17:29] trop has joined the channel
[17:29] robrighter_ has joined the channel
[17:29] dgathright has joined the channel
[17:30] JimBastard: lol trolling
[17:30] JimBastard: RoR
[17:30] JimBastard: is epic
[17:30] teemow has joined the channel
[17:30] trop: heh
[17:30] robrighter_ has left the channel
[17:30] JimBastard: i had to leave, they started to catch on
[17:30] JimBastard: i closed with
[17:30] JimBastard: "can you write rails apps in javascript"
[17:31] JimBastard: "fuck it im just gonna try node instead"
[17:31] fictorial: sigh
[17:31] JimBastard: i might have told them im running windows server 2003 IIS
[17:31] JimBastard: and that rails was stupid because it didnt support mysql
[17:32] JimBastard: and that they should really add mysql support because you cant build web apps without mysql
[17:32] JimBastard: ahh back to work
[17:32] N` has joined the channel
[17:32] avidal: lol
[17:32] mjijackson: ha! i've never gotten any useful answers from #rubyonrails
[17:33] trop: heh
[17:33] mjijackson: mostly precocious jerks in there
[17:33] JimBastard: yeah
[17:33] saikat has joined the channel
[17:33] JimBastard: i had to stop trolling, it was actually a bit too easy
[17:33] avidal: so what's the coolest thing done in node so far?!
[17:33] JimBastard: coolest?
[17:33] avidal: yes
[17:33] avidal: most awesomest
[17:33] JimBastard: hrmm
[17:33] mjijackson: avidal: nothing. node sucks
[17:33] avidal: someone should make a jabber server
[17:33] trop: avidal: :-/
[17:33] mjr_: And this is how the troller became trolled.
[17:34] MattJ: \o/
[17:34] trop: heh
[17:34] fictorial: You guys sound like 12 year old girls :)
[17:34] mjijackson: :)
[17:34] JimBastard: you listen to a lot of 12 year old girls?
[17:34] fictorial: Only in #RoR
[17:34] JimBastard: lolz
[17:34] mikeal: someone should write a bunch of jabber and oauth code, because they are rediculous protocols that sucks to try and work with if you don't have a good library already :)
[17:34] MattJ: avidal: I thought about it, but I lack the motivation
[17:34] avidal: same
[17:34] JimBastard: oauth as started
[17:34] mjijackson: avidal: node-chat is pretty cool
[17:34] JimBastard: its on the github
[17:35] JimBastard: http://chat.nodejitsu.com
[17:35] MattJ: mikeal: Jabber is done, contributions welcome :)
[17:35] mikeal: does it support file transfers?
[17:35] felixge has joined the channel
[17:35] felixge has joined the channel
[17:35] MattJ: If you implement that, yes
[17:35] mikeal: yeah…. i'm not
[17:35] avidal: node-chat is pretty cool
[17:35] mjr_: What's the coolest thing done in node?  The thing you are about to write.
[17:35] mikeal: last time i checked it requires SOCKS5
[17:36] MattJ: mikeal: I just implemented support for just that protocol in my client library, it's basic
[17:38] JimBastard: avidal: we are working on an mmo
[17:39] JimBastard: http://zzt.nodejitsu.com/
[17:42] avidal: that broodmother thing is pretty awesome
[17:42] JimBastard: thanks
[17:43] JimBastard: ive been working really hard on it for a week or two
[17:43] saikat: fictorial: so i just got around to testing the changes, and it almost works, except now, the binary data when I do a redisClient.get seems to be mangled
[17:43] avidal: well if it had code it would be awesome :P
[17:43] saikat: no matter if i wrote the data originally with python or redis
[17:43] saikat: er
[17:43] saikat: python or JS*
[17:43] JimBastard: avidal: im going to release it as soon as we are protected
[17:43] avidal: sounds like a good idea
[17:43] JimBastard: my business partners were pretty adamant about that part
[17:43] JimBastard: but im doing my best to release all of it
[17:43] fictorial: saikat: the returned value is a Buffer; are you taking that into account?
[17:43] avidal: so are you marak or charlie or james or scott?!?!
[17:44] JimBastard: all of them?
[17:44] avidal: nice
[17:44] JimBastard: lol no
[17:44] saikat: fictorial: oh probably not - i just pass it into gunzip, let me check node-compress to see if  he's expecting binary strings
[17:44] avidal: i'd imagine james, i'm just getting confused
[17:44] JimBastard: im marak
[17:44] fictorial: saikat: if not, patch it for Buffer support?
[17:44] JimBastard: who is charlie?
[17:44] avidal: he's in the readme for broodmother
[17:44] avidal: charlie robbins
[17:44] JimBastard: yeah is ee
[17:44] JimBastard: indexzero
[17:45] JimBastard: yeah hes not here
[17:45] JimBastard: charlie is part of that project
[17:45] JimBastard: hes also the man behind getting JSLINQ started
[17:45] avidal: cool
[17:45] JimBastard: he was bitching at me for months about that
[17:45] avidal: so you are working on node-chat, zzt, and broodmother?
[17:46] kevwil_ has joined the channel
[17:46] JimBastard: im working on many projects
[17:46] JimBastard: http://github.com/Marak/
[17:46] avidal: yeah i can see that
[17:46] JimBastard: the current project queue is : broodmother, jsqlinq, hook.io
[17:46] JimBastard: zzt is a side project
[17:46] JimBastard: but still somewhat of a proirity 
[17:47] JimBastard: i need a way of easily deploying hook.io apps so i can start doing the p2p stuff
[17:47] JimBastard: hence broodmother
[17:47] JimBastard: and i need a way of dealing with data, hence jsqlinq
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[17:48] JimBastard: feel free to contribute to anything you see 
[17:48] JimBastard: there should be open issues on all projects
[17:48] avidal: i need to get used to git
[17:48] avidal: i kind of prefer hg to git, but github is tons better than bitbucket
[17:48] JimBastard: yep
[17:49] avidal: and if bitbucket doesn't pick up the pace and stop going down, it's pretty much going to lose that battle
[17:49] JimBastard: my money is on github
[17:49] JimBastard: its already won imo
[17:49] JimBastard: defunkt is pretty serious about it too
[17:49] saikat: your money and a lot of VCs' money too =)
[17:49] saikat: bitbucket is pretty much a one-man operation right?
[17:49] JimBastard: i got to meet one of the founders and talk a bit of their direction
[17:50] JimBastard: (of github)
[17:50] saikat: if you are in SF, you should come to the github meetups
[17:50] avidal: i know the guy that started bitbucket, kind of
[17:50] JimBastard: nyc
[17:50] saikat: lots of fun, and a lot of open source hackers show up
[17:50] JimBastard: always, nyc
[17:50] avidal: he was writing a django project to manage hg repos, creating new ones, etc
[17:50] avidal: the bitbucket guy used that and created bitbucket, basically
[17:51] mjr_: saikat: where can I find out about the SF github meetups?
[17:51] avidal: where is nyc?
[17:51] avidal: i was born and raised there, been in austin, tx though for the past 11ish years
[17:51] avidal: er, not where is
[17:51] avidal: where in
[17:51] JimBastard: i live in manhattan
[17:51] JimBastard: curry hill
[17:51] saikat: mjr_: follow github on twitter, or on their blog
[17:51] saikat: they used to do one every two weeks
[17:51] saikat: now it's once a month
[17:51] saikat: i think the next one might be next week
[17:52] JimBastard: avidal: doesnt creationix live in austin?
[17:52] saikat: i thought he was in dallas
[17:52] avidal: no clue
[17:52] JimBastard: got ya
[17:52] avidal: For having lived in NY for a long time, I know surprisingly little about Manhattan
[17:52] avidal: I guess that happens when you're a poor kid from queens
[17:53] JimBastard: 27th and lex abouts
[17:53] avidal: roger
[17:53] JimBastard: i have apartment jail where we have javascript parties
[17:53] saikat: it's kind of the way it works with most cities you grow up in - i grew up near dallas, and can probably count the number of times i actually went to dallas on one hand
[17:53] avidal: sounds nerdy
[17:53] JimBastard: apartment jail - http://www.google.com/search?q=%22apartment+jail%22&hl=en&prmd=v&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=pFPkS8f6LcKAlAfGxeiuAg&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CB0QqwQwAA
[17:54] saikat: heh yeah i was in the east village before SF for a while living in a 1 bedroom with 2 other guys
[17:55] mjr_: I spent a year or so in Irving, TX.  Pretty glad to be living in the Bay Area after that.
[17:55] saikat: and still paying more for rent than i do now
[17:55] avidal: I'll probably stay in Austin
[17:55] saikat: austin's a great city
[17:55] avidal: Especially since my girlfriend lives here and we have a son on the way
[17:55] avidal: My dad's side of the family is here, and her whole family is here
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[17:56] avidal: I visit NY at least once a year and that'll probably be enough
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[18:01] phazm: I'm having a bit of trouble making my script non-blocking in this area... I have a loop, which has: items = myString.split(':'); myFunction(items[1],items[2]); -- inside myFunction is a process that takes roughly 3-4 seconds to complete. During this time, the rest of my script isn't running, which is bad. Any ideas on how to restructure?
[18:02] nym has joined the channel
[18:02] nym: heyhey
[18:02] JimBastard: sup nym 
[18:03] nym: i know this is really incredible, and somewhat unbelievable, but i did hello world in node last night
[18:03] JimBastard: phazm: can you paste the code
[18:03] nym: ....and it was awesome.
[18:03] JimBastard: nym: http://github.com/marak/hellonode ?
[18:04] JimBastard: :p
[18:04] nym: whoha, you mean it's already been done?
[18:04] JimBastard: ahaha
[18:04] JimBastard: i like you, i think im going to give you an nickname
[18:04] JimBastard: how about "laser"
[18:04] nym: sure
[18:04] JimBastard: hows it going laser
[18:04] nym: going good jb
[18:05] nym: hey, so i'm interested in doing websockets with node, any recommendations on what to look at?
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[18:06] mde: phazm: Depending on what the rest of your program is doing, you could call the function with setTimeout.
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[18:12] JimBastard: mde: can you explain that last statement to me
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[18:13] mjr_: phazm: you need to set up a callback that runs when your process is completed which runs the next iteration of the loop.
[18:13] JimBastard: ive never quite understood using siteTimeOut in that context
[18:13] mjr_: phazm: but "loop"' in this context will take on a pretty different shape.
[18:13] mde: Yeah, depends on if you need them to run in sequence or not.
[18:13] KungFuHamster: it's like an inverted sleep()
[18:13] JimBastard: shouldnt you like never have to use that?
[18:14] JimBastard: in that context?
[18:14] mjr_: You can still run them all in sequence, but you need to the state around in an array or something so you know what the next thing to do is.
[18:14] JimBastard: like, isnt it always better to just be evented?
[18:15] mde: Depends on if you want to block on processing or not. If you don't care when the stuff happens, and you have other critical stuff that needs to run right away, offloading to setTimeout is a good way to unblock.
[18:15] JimBastard: that makes sense
[18:16] JimBastard: kinda like a delayed_job in ruby or whatever
[18:16] JimBastard: just toss it to the back and it will run when it can?
[18:16] phazm: yea, the blocking portion isn't at all time critical
[18:16] mde: Exactly. So, I did this to deal with sequential callback-based operations: http://github.com/mde/geddy/blob/master/geddy-util/lib/async.js
[18:16] mjr_: That setTimeout business reeks of awkward.
[18:17] mde: But I really should be calling the next action from setTimeout, so the chain doesn't block.
[18:17] mde: It's real awkward, yeah. :)
[18:17] mjr_: If you really just want to yield for the rest of the current tick, you can use nextTick().
[18:17] JimBastard: yeah
[18:17] JimBastard: i mean
[18:17] JimBastard: i only use setTimeout on the client.....and thats only for intent behaviors
[18:17] JimBastard: like hover intent, click intent, etc
[18:18] mjr_: in that case, setTimeout is exactly what you want.
[18:18] nefD: JimBastard:  Have you ever had problems with JQUI trying to assign focus to an input element which exists inside of a modal dialog? It seems to be properly firing focusin and focusout events when i run a focus() on the element, but no cursor =\
[18:18] mde: No, it's a common way to unblock UI processing on the client too.
[18:18] mjr_: But for a loop of work to be done, where doing the work takes some time, setTimeout is not the right answer.
[18:19] technoweenie has joined the channel
[18:19] mde: Ah, right on, okay, I didn't know about nextTick. If you're writing stuff just for Node, that looks great.
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[18:22] saikat: does using the 'binary' encoding in readFileSync imply that readFileSync will return a binary string and not a buffer?
[18:22] saikat: well that's more of a "i think this is the case" than a question
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[18:43] phazm: is there a node module already created for ftp upload/download (a client, not a server)
[18:43] saikat: if i have a buffer called "buf" and i call "buf.toString('binary', buf.length)" should that return a binary string?
[18:46] isaacs: saikat: buf.toString("binary") will give you a binary string, yes
[18:46] isaacs: saikat: buf.toString("binary", buf.length) will give you ""
[18:46] isaacs: saikat: the second arg is the start position.
[18:46] isaacs: saikat: it goes: toString(encoding, start, length)
[18:47] isaacs: oh, nvm, it's toString(encoding, start, end)
[18:47] isaacs: it works like substring, not substr
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[18:47] saikat: isaacs: thanks, just trying to wrap my head around binary strings and buffers and what's expecting what
[18:48] isaacs: saikat: i've found, it's best to use the Buffer api wherever it's available, and only stringify when you need a string.
[18:48] isaacs: it's much faster that way
[18:48] saikat: yeah
[18:48] saikat: i want to do that too
[18:48] mjr_: isaacs: is that usage not document in the API doc?
[18:48] saikat: i'm trying to figure out what node-compress is doing
[18:48] saikat: i think it's expecting binary strings
[18:48] isaacs: mjr_: not sure.  i haven't checked the API doc.  require("buffer").Buffer.prototype is my documentation
[18:48] saikat: but then my sanity check doesn't seem to work
[18:48] mjr_: nice
[18:49] mjr_: I want to see us have good docs that answer typical questions like this.
[18:49] isaacs: mjr_: that would be nice.
[18:49] saikat: mjr_: toString is in the docs
[18:49] xla: hek
[18:49] xla: hej
[18:49] saikat: i'm just probably being dumb =)
[18:49] xla: is there a good resource for node setup on a normal ec2 instance?
[18:49] isaacs: you really don't need the slice functions, since toString wraps them up
[18:50] saikat: isaacs: so i have this code: http://gist.github.com/393850 .  i know that fictorial just made redisClient use buffers to get/set binary data
[18:50] saikat: the first sys.puts works (the contents of the file after decompressing works)
[18:50] saikat: the second one doesn't
[18:51] saikat: i would have expected that if the .get is giving me a buffer
[18:51] _ry: xla: shouldn't be hard - just compile it
[18:51] fictorial: saikat: well, that's been out for a while actually.
[18:51] mjr_: node just worked on my EC2 Ubuntu 9.10 instances.
[18:51] saikat: the value.toString would encode that return as a binary string and node-compress could understand it
[18:51] fictorial: saikat: what encoding are you specifying for your toString call?
[18:52] saikat: fictorial: the commit was 3 hours ago according to github?  
[18:52] saikat: 'binary'
[18:52] saikat: http://gist.github.com/393850 is the code
[18:52] fictorial: no, that commit was didn't make the client use buffers for get/set.  it made non-Buffer arguments not default to utf8 encoding.
[18:53] saikat: right - so it's getting/setting any argument as the buffer right?
[18:53] saikat: that's my understanding?
[18:53] saikat: and not defaulting to any encoding?
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[18:53] saikat: so in client.get, i should be expecting a buffer, regardless of what i put in there?
[18:54] fictorial: if the argument to pass to a redis command is not a Buffer but has a .toString, .toString is called.  Every callback for "get" is passed a Buffer. 
[18:54] fictorial: correct
[18:54] saikat: rigth, sorry i was unclear - that's what i meant by what fictorail just committed =)
[18:54] fictorial: it's splitting hairs but I just want to make sure we're all on the same page about what is happening :)
[18:54] saikat: yes me too
[18:55] saikat: for sure - i don't want to be confused before trying to write some patch on node-compress
[18:55] saikat: but in that case, i'm a little confused about the code i just pasted
[18:55] saikat: if node-compress is working on binary strings (which it seems like it does because that first sys.puts works)
[18:55] saikat: shouldn't value.toString('binary') give me a binary string that then works with node-compress?
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[18:59] fictorial: value is a Buffer so .toString('binary') should give you a binary string yes
[18:59] fictorial: I'm not familliar with node-compress
[19:00] saikat: ok, i'll try to check out what's happening then
[19:00] fictorial: maybe you cannot reuse the gunzip object 2+x?
[19:00] saikat: oh actually that might be it
[19:00] saikat: i didn't call gunzip.end
[19:00] saikat: which i know i should be
[19:00] saikat: good catch, thanks
[19:00] fictorial: ah, good
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[19:01] _ry: who was working on the pigz port?
[19:02] saikat: fictorial: yep that was it - thanks
[19:02] fictorial: saikat: cool
[19:02] saikat: one other question fictorial - why is it necessary to call toString on the arg before setting it in redis client?
[19:02] saikat: is there not a way to get the memory buffer for any arbitrary object without toString and then serializing it?
[19:03] saikat: i'm assuming that, no matter what arg is, you want to save the buffer in redis (since that's what you'll be getting on .get anyway)
[19:03] mscdex: hmm, so node-compress is only synchronous?
[19:03] saikat: yes
[19:03] saikat: i think
[19:04] saikat: it also seems to have a huge memory leak
[19:04] saikat: which will be the second thing i'll try to figure out about it
[19:04] fictorial: You mean like Number -> Buffer?  No, not that I'm aware of. Also, Redis is binary-safe.  It does not care what you use for keys or values.  So, the client works on that principle and uses a (binary) Buffer for building up the commands to send.
[19:04] fermion: heya — anyone else part of the node.js/heroku beta?
[19:04] saikat: fictorial: yeah like number -> buffer.  i see - so the point of toString is to convert stuff like number to string so you can save as a buffer?
[19:05] saikat: thanks, that clears things up.
[19:05] fictorial: s/save/copy to/ ... yes.
[19:05] JimBastard: i am fermion 
[19:06] bmizerany has joined the channel
[19:06] fictorial: I want Heroku to allow generic TCP/IP servers with long-lived connections - would solve my problem for me!  :)
[19:06] paul__ has joined the channel
[19:06] fermion: JimBastard: hey man — did you explicitly pass the --stack when making your new project?
[19:06] dacc_ has joined the channel
[19:07] JimBastard: i havent actually deployed any apps yet
[19:07] JimBastard: :p
[19:07] fermion: ahh
[19:07] JimBastard: been busy
[19:07] fermion: fair enough :-D
[19:07] JimBastard: bmizerany might be able to help
[19:07] bmizerany: what's up?
[19:07] fermion: I was being told that the --stack beech wasnt' available
[19:07] JimBastard: and the docs should be pretty comprehensive
[19:07] JimBastard: bmizerany: i think fermion had a heroku question
[19:08] bmizerany: fermion: what's up?
[19:08] fermion: heya bmizerany, was just inquiring if anyone had to pass the --stack beech option explicitly
[19:08] fermion: (for the node.js/heroku beta)
[19:08] fermion: I think I'm good though :-)
[19:09] bmizerany: cool
[19:09] bmizerany: got it working?
[19:10] fermion: heh, working on it
[19:10] mjr_: bmizerany: that was a really cool demo you guys gave at Yahoo the other day.  I hope it goes well for you when you get actual customers.
[19:10] fermion: bmizerany: do you guys plan to support mongohq for node.js as well?
[19:12] bmizerany: mjr_: thx!
[19:12] bmizerany: fermion: it's already there :)
[19:12] bmizerany: fermion: http://blog.heroku.com/archives/2010/4/30/mongohq_add_on_public_beta/
[19:12] bmizerany: fermion: you get a MONGOHQ_URL env (i.e. process.env.MONGOHQ_URL)
[19:12] bmizerany: done. :)
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[19:13] fermion: bmizerany: that was fast
[19:13] fermion: I'd assumed that was only for Ruby apps :-D
[19:14] bmizerany: nope.  mongo isn't a ruby specific thing. :)  you also get the PostgresDB in DATABASE_URL (comes with every app at the start)
[19:14] bmizerany: 5mb free
[19:15] fermion: that's good stuff, thanks for the info!
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[19:15] bmizerany: you also can try Zerigo, Memcache, deploy hooks, websolr, sendgrid, ssl, custom domains, cron (requires a Rakefile), 
[19:16] bmizerany: I think the only ones that will not work on non-ruby dynos is newrelic and exceptional (although you could mimic it in node I'm sure)
[19:17] JimBastard: yeah i dont have any of those features, but ill install pretty much anything you want if you ask nice enough ahaha
[19:17] JimBastard: ;-)
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[19:27] isaacs: bmizerany: hey, how do i get into that there nodejs heroku beta thingie?
[19:28] bmizerany: isaacs: we're adding more people everyday in order of submission
[19:28] nym: isaacs: you gotta email nodejs@heroku.com
[19:28] isaacs: ahh, ok, i thought i had, but i guess i just thought about doing it, and didn't *actually* do it.
[19:28] isaacs: hate it when that happens.
[19:29] isaacs: bmizerany: hey, what kind of access to nodejs scripts have to the file system?
[19:29] isaacs: bmizerany: is it strictly just an http server, or can they get at a folder or something?
[19:29] JimBastard: isaacs its pretty locked down atm
[19:30] mjr_: isaacs: you were standing right next to me when I asked that same question.
[19:30] mjr_: :)
[19:30] isaacs: mjr_: really? i must've been paying attention to something else.
[19:30] JimBastard: i gotta get on there tonight and see whats up with FS
[19:30] mjr_: I guess the answer is that you have rw in /tmp, and everything else is ro
[19:30] isaacs: mjr_: is /tmp shared and transitory?
[19:31] isaacs: mjr_: ie, no personal fs sandbox?
[19:31] mjr_: I dunno, have to ask the experts.
[19:31] fermion: bmizerany: I've got to hand it to you guys, you've done a great job of making it really, really hard to not use heroku for hosting Ruby apps
[19:31] isaacs: bmizerany: ^^
[19:32] isaacs: in any event, i'd like to port ryan grove's jetpants.com to nodejs.
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[19:34] bmizerany: isaacs: you have a ./tmp dir you can write to.  We discourge writing to the FS for across session access because it enables apps to scale up process with little problem.
[19:35] bmizerany: isaacs: ./tmp is yours.  no one can see it.
[19:35] isaacs: bmizerany: awesome.  and when i push my app to heroku, is it just a single file, or can i push up a folderful of stuff or something?
[19:35] bmizerany: gotta run guys. see you in a few hours.
[19:35] isaacs: oh, have fun!
[19:35] bmizerany: isaacs: push up everything you need. the server.js is just the signal that it's a node app and the is the target file that is passed to node
[19:35] isaacs: i see
[19:36] isaacs: so i could just upload everything i need from the fs.
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[19:37] bmizerany: isaacs: right. you're code will persist across sessions. :)  it's uploaded files or runtime generated content that may go.  if you need to generate content and cache it, you get Varnish for free, just set the needed headers and varnish will take over
[19:37] isaacs: nice
[19:37] bmizerany: ;)
[19:37] isaacs: bmizerany: that's awesome
[19:37] isaacs: bmizerany: i want npm on heroku.
[19:37] bmizerany: isaacs: http://heroku.com/how/architecture
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[19:42] saikat: in fs.readFile, where does binding get closed?  or is it up to the application calling it to close the file handle?
[19:42] saikat: i'm looking at the code, and in readFileSync, i see an explicit call to binding.close after reading
[19:43] saikat: er, binding.close on the file descriptor
[19:46] isaacs: saikat: it calls readAll, and it gets closed in there
[19:47] saikat: isaacs: i don't see a call to "readAll", just to "doRead"
[19:47] isaacs: oh, wait, i'm out of date
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[19:48] saikat: i do see a close in ReadStream.prototype.destroy - does that get called by the GC?
[19:49] isaacs: saikat: seems that the close got removed with creationix's refactor
[19:49] saikat: hm ok, so that might explain at least part of the reason for my memory leak =)
[19:49] creationix: really?, that's not good
[19:50] creationix: 
ACTION notes to not reafctor code at 1am

[19:51] isaacs: creationix: no, that's fine.  just don't send your refactors to _ry when he's drunk.
[19:51] isaacs: creationix, saikat: http://github.com/isaacs/node/commit/3ee77a699ec3a002f975b39d78814189088bd367
[19:52] saikat: cool, thanks
[19:52] creationix: isaacs: that should work
[19:52] creationix: you're welcome to submit it
[19:52] isaacs: sent to _ry and list
[19:53] isaacs: creationix: you should tweak readFileSync to work just like readFile
[19:53] isaacs: ie, stat, return a buffer
[19:53] konobi: are there any decent support/helper libraries to help with sequential but async operations?
[19:53] creationix: probably
[19:53] creationix: and make writeFile and writeFileSync accept buffers
[19:53] isaacs: yep
[19:53] isaacs: buffer buffer buffer!!
[19:53] isaacs: buffers for everyone!
[19:54] elliottcable: buffer buffer buffer!
[19:54] isaacs: down with strings!!
[19:54] saikat: agreed
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[19:55] mjijackson: isaacs: don't let _ry hear you say that! if it were up to him, everything would be a stream. :)
[19:55] creationix: streams and buffers go great together
[19:55] isaacs: mjijackson: that's not so bad.
[19:55] creationix: but for loading up a favicon and sending it to the browser, you can't beat a buffer based fs.readFile
[19:55] DracoBlue: konobi: you mean something like Do? http://howtonode.org/do-it-fast
[19:56] isaacs: mjijackson: using javascript strings to represent anything other than utf8 data is not so good.  and if you're going to be concatenating things, you might cut a char in half, and js's string concatenation isn't smart enough to detect this (indeed, it's a little bit impossible)
[19:56] isaacs: javascript strings != c strings
[19:57] creationix: DracoBlue: konobi: do is good if you like continuables, but Step works great with node callbacks
[19:57] isaacs: thing is, they're just good enough to THINK that it's ok, and then you get into trouble because you build this whole app that fails like 5% of the time inexplicably.
[19:57] isaacs: or you build something that downloads tarballs, and half the time they're invalid.
[19:57] mjijackson: isaacs: completely agree with you there.
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[19:57] isaacs: npm taught me to hate and fear javascript strings as a data transport mechanism.
[19:58] isaacs: since i moved to buffers, my tarballs don't fail unless github gives me a 500 error code (which does happen occasionally still)
[19:58] DracoBlue: creationix: step ( http://howtonode.org/step-of-conductor ) looks good ;)
[19:58] konobi: DracoBlue: looks like an option... will have a read
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[20:01] elliottcable: technoweenie: showoff is pretty neat
[20:01] technoweenie: thanks, it's all schacon though
[20:02] elliottcable: ah heh
[20:02] technoweenie: it IS very neat
[20:02] technoweenie: this is a fact
[20:02] elliottcable: since when is schacon into Node?
[20:02] elliottcable: blah
[20:02] technoweenie has joined the channel
[20:03] technoweenie: god, this irc client either crashes or updates every day
[20:04] technoweenie: yea look at some of schacon's talks that are linked in the readme
[20:04] technoweenie: he gives great talks, i love how the slides change fast enough to get some kind of animation
[20:04] mjijackson: HOORAY! 131 tests, 539 assertions, 0 failures, 0 errors, 0 skips
[20:05] mjijackson: i've been looking forward to this day for two weeks. sorry to share it with you all, but i was just so excited i had to share it with someone. my wife and kids wouldn't understand. :)
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[20:12] DracoBlue: mjijackson: gratz :D
[20:13] mjijackson: DracoBlue: thanks!
[20:14] JimBastard: i assert congrats mjijackson 
[20:14] mjijackson: JimBastard: :D
[20:15] JimBastard: Tests: 1, Failures: 1, Successes: 0.
[20:15] JimBastard: i said i asserted "congrats"
[20:15] JimBastard: fail
[20:15] JimBastard: you should fix that responder
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[20:15] mjijackson: lol
[20:15] derRichard: hi
[20:16] mjijackson: derRichard: hi
[20:16] JimBastard: sup derRichard 
[20:16] JimBastard: welcome to node
[20:16] JimBastard: how may i serve you
[20:17] nefD: I, for one, welcome our new automated helper bot overlord
[20:17] derRichard: when i start bin/node-waf (to build an addon). it fails. the error message (from python) is: "ImportError: No module named Scripting". do i miss something?
[20:18] JimBastard: 
ACTION only does pure JS node stuff for now

[20:18] JimBastard: 
ACTION ducks out

[20:18] CIA-75: node: 03isaacs 07master * rbc45adc 10/ lib/fs.js : Add binding.close to fs.readFile - http://bit.ly/dt7Nrc
[20:18] _ry: isaacs: thanks
[20:19] isaacs: _ry: my pleasure, sir
[20:19] nefD: hrm, sounds like it hands an unmet dependency? sounds like a module named 'Scripting' might be part of the base node package, but I could be wrong
[20:19] JimBastard: are there any tutorials for doing node add ons?
[20:19] JimBastard: i had a friend asking me about doing some C stuff
[20:19] mjijackson: JimBastard: there are. lemme try and find it real quick
[20:20] JimBastard: that should help derpRichard
[20:21] derRichard: JimBastard: this is a small howto ;) http://github.com/ry/node_postgres
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[20:21] derRichard: my goal is to build an opencl addon for node.js
[20:21] mjijackson: derRichard: someone posted a short article several months back to the node mailing list about building add-ons. can't find it right now
[20:22] derRichard: mjijackson: ah ok. thanks
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[20:27] DracoBlue: btw. I was wondering whether it is possible to get current node version from within node?
[20:28] DracoBlue: something like a __version magic variable?
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[20:29] JimBastard: DracoBlue is that in process?
[20:29] mjijackson: DracoBlue: process.version
[20:29] JimBastard: if not you could always sys.exec node -v
[20:29] JimBastard: i guess its child process now..not sys.exec
[20:29] mjijackson: process.version
[20:29] JimBastard: yeah
[20:29] JimBastard: RTFM
[20:29] JimBastard: :-D
[20:29] mjijackson: whoops...didn't mean to type that twice :)
[20:30] DracoBlue: api.html does not say that, or did I miss it? :(
[20:30] mjr_: I don't think it's in the manual.
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[20:31] DracoBlue: works perfect! thanks mjijackson!
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[20:38] creationix: _ry: sorry for the bad patch
[20:38] mjr_: Just pushed a patch process.version.  I imagine it'll go in eventually.
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[20:53] mikeal: mjr_: you coming to the BBQ tomorrow?
[20:53] mikeal: _ry: you too
[20:54] mikeal: actually, anyone in Bay Area tomorrow, you are should come to my BBQ :)
[20:54] mikeal: tlrobinson: you're local, come over :)
[20:54] derRichard: node.js is great! it took me only 15min to get my hello-world addon running :-)
[20:54] JimBastard: its a javascript party, and everyone is invited
[20:55] JimBastard: derRichard why kinda of add-ons are you trying to build?
[20:55] JimBastard: most things can be done in pure JS
[20:55] JimBastard: without messing with node internals
[20:55] JimBastard: what kind of*
[20:55] nefD: i need to learn how to do addons so I can write a libpurple wrapper :P
[20:56] mikeal: the bindings are just v8 
[20:56] derRichard: JimBastard: i'm working on an opencl binding for node
[20:56] mikeal: so you can learn most of what you need via the v8 C++ docs
[20:56] JimBastard: 10-4
[20:57] JimBastard: yeah that seems like something you might want to do in C
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[20:57] Fuxx: :)
[20:58] JimBastard: sup Fuxx 
[20:58] Fuxx: nothing :) reading tons of documents and preparing bindings for tobeytailor :P
[20:58] Fuxx: self?
[20:58] derRichard: JimBastard: no. the opencl api is very lowlevel. so i'm working on a tool (written in node.js) to compute and benchmark opencl programs
[20:59] JimBastard: got ya, sorry its a big over my head derRichard 
[20:59] JimBastard: nice Fuxx, tobey is the man
[21:00] Fuxx: hrhr, i worked with him last year over 6 months 
[21:00] Fuxx: and he got so fuckin crazy ideas at all xD
[21:00] Fuxx: but at this point he needs a c++ coder :P
[21:00] JimBastard: aye
[21:00] Fuxx: hope we will be fast with our current project =D
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[21:01] Fuxx: but we know, that only a sort of ppl will use our shit xD
[21:01] Fuxx: but who cares :P 
[21:02] JimBastard: gordon?
[21:02] Fuxx: nope :)
[21:02] Fuxx: but i think its usable with gordon :>
[21:03] Fuxx: but the mainfocus isnt gordon :)
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[21:04] Fuxx: iam not the javascript man :P for myself i start loving javascript at some points, but i love more the high language area =(
[21:05] JimBastard: i like javascript while im high
[21:05] nefD: haha
[21:05] Fuxx: xDDD
[21:06] nefD: ever coded anything while really drunk? you come to it the next day and aren't entirely sure how or why it works
[21:06] rolfb: nefD: i think that's compulsory
[21:07] creationix: Fuxx: will your bindings allow us to make desktop apps in node?
[21:07] creationix: or rather, games
[21:07] Fuxx: maybe :>
[21:08] nefD: heh, ogre 3d bindings would be (awesome/funny/curious)
[21:08] Fuxx: =)
[21:08] JimBastard: nefD: balmer peak
[21:09] JimBastard: its very hard to maintain the balmer peak without assitance
[21:09] nefD: HAH
[21:09] JimBastard: as by definition why hit the peak you cannot be bothered with things like properly titrating alcohol into your body
[21:09] JimBastard: when you hit the peak*
[21:09] Fuxx: xkcd ftw <3
[21:09] nefD: youd need some kind of IV drip
[21:10] JimBastard: i found the volcano + redbull is an acceptable substitute 
[21:10] JimBastard: although you wont get the ego boost you get from the balmer peak
[21:10] JimBastard: so you'll have to just maintain that on your own
[21:10] nefD: salvia + pabst ..!
[21:10] JimBastard: lol
[21:10] JimBastard: salvia
[21:10] Fuxx: alright, girlfriend is sleeping ;o beer is available and vim is initialized ;o woohoo \o/
[21:11] mjijackson: man. GitHub search sucks.
[21:12] mjijackson: seriously. they should just farm it out to Google.
[21:12] nefD: heh, fuxx.. All screens are go! Move 'zig' for great justice!'
[21:12] nefD: (vim rules, btw.. high five)
[21:12] Fuxx: \o/
[21:12] nefD: nerdTREE + taglist
[21:13] Fuxx: https://blog.stefanpopp.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/vim3.png < pure sex ;o
[21:13] JimBastard: github search is a bit of a joke
[21:14] JimBastard: i use the autosuggest project box as my search
[21:14] JimBastard: but that only works because im following like 160 projects
[21:14] mjijackson: i tried searching for jimweirich/builder which is the EXACT name of a user/repo and it didn't find anything
[21:14] mjijackson: nothing.
[21:14] JimBastard: 136
[21:15] JimBastard: you gotta search by user naem
[21:15] nefD: nice :D like the color scheme
[21:15] JimBastard: or project
[21:15] JimBastard: thats it
[21:15] JimBastard: technoweenie: make someone fix github searching
[21:15] Fuxx: JimBastard: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3062 
[21:15] nefD: boom: http://sevrd.com/Screenshot.png !
[21:16] nefD: forgot the hotkey for an active window only screenshot, but whatever
[21:16] JimBastard: sup Fuxx ?
[21:16] Fuxx: the color theme
[21:16] Fuxx: ;)
[21:16] JimBastard: ohh
[21:16] JimBastard: yeah
[21:16] JimBastard: like
[21:16] JimBastard: i enjoy using the mouse
[21:16] nefD: i use the mouse in vim constantly :)
[21:17] Fuxx: hum :< i didnt use the mouse :< maybe 1% of movement :<
[21:17] Fuxx: iam so fuckin oldschool :<
[21:17] JimBastard: but i hear vim is great if you are are a ninja
[21:17] nefD: well, i mean the mouse isnt required, sure, but it makes quick copy/paste/deletion much simpler.. and its nice being able to resize the side panes easily
[21:18] mjijackson: JimBastard: Vim is the only editor I will ever use
[21:18] Fuxx: yeak thats right. visual mode sucks sometimes
[21:18] mjijackson: once you go Vim, you can never go back
[21:18] mjijackson: you start trying to use your Vim keybindings in every program. your web browser, iTunes...it's great
[21:18] mjijackson: =D
[21:19] Fuxx: a pro is programming in notepad ... leet persons using vim but geeks only needs echo \o/
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[21:22] Fuxx: 3 days after my registration on github, they havent updated my avatar -.-
[21:22] DracoBlue: xdebug php debugging with vim :D http://2bits.com/sites/2bits.com/files/vim-debug-reaching-breakpoint.png
[21:22] DracoBlue: maybe I want this for nodejs, too :P
[21:22] Fuxx: =) 
[21:22] JimBastard: ive done some pretty serious stuff over remote desktop with notepad
[21:22] JimBastard: on the production server
[21:22] JimBastard: you'd be surprised >.<
[21:22] JimBastard: this was years ago though
[21:23] DracoBlue: I guess everyone is suprised what's possible and how fast, on a production system, when development took it's time :D
[21:24] gf3: inimino: around?
[21:25] DracoBlue: nighty everyone!
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[21:51] Fuxx: hm, is there no way to add additional include directorys to a wscript? in the node wscript there is a include function, but it isnt available in my build file. i used the same build imports to test missing stuff :(
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[21:53] derRichard: can somebody tell me what line 27 does? http://github.com/ry/node_postgres/blob/master/binding.cc#L27 is it v8 specific? my c++ is a bit rusty :(
[21:55] maushu: Checking for library execinfo            : not found
[21:55] maushu: Is this used for anything?
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[22:03] isaacs: derRichard: yes,it's v8 specific
[22:03] isaacs: derRichard: that sets the number of "internal" fields that the object has access to
[22:03] isaacs: derRichard: internal fields are fields that aren't exposed to the javascript layer, like references to c stuff
[22:04] derRichard: okay. and which flieds does it mark as internal?
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[22:13] derRichard: InternalFieldCount seems always to be 1. so i don't care anymore about it :-)
[22:16] isaacs: derRichard: usually you'd use SetInternalField with an offset and a void* pointer, if i remember correctly.
[22:16] isaacs: derRichard: so it's not like there's a specific property that's internal.  it's like, this object's methods have access in the C layer to this internal set of things.
[22:17] isaacs: derRichard: in this case, i think the internal field is a handle to the database connection or whatever it uses to talk to postgres
[22:19] derRichard: okay. thx.
[22:20] derRichard: can you point me to a good node/v8 api docu? i want to know what Ref() and Unref() does
[22:20] derRichard: i can guess what it does, but i want to know it exactly ;)
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[22:27] derRichard: got it: ./src/node_object_wrap.h 
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[22:33] Fuxx: argh fuckin python shit!!!!one!!eleven!
[22:33] Fuxx: i hate that spaces shit -.-
[22:33] Fuxx: </spam>
[22:33] derRichard: use an editor with whitespace support :P
[22:34] franksalim: I can think of many, many more deserving targets for your rage
[22:34] mape: People that use spaces instead of tabs?
[22:34] franksalim: people who use tabs instead of spaces?
[22:35] Fuxx: ;)
[22:35] mape: hehe
[22:35] Fuxx: i just forgot "set smartindent" in my vim rc ;)
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[22:43] JimBastard: its reassuring to check back on some "cool" "up and coming" tech companies i applied for jobs at a couple of years ago that never even responded to my emails.
[22:43] JimBastard: they are all defunked now
[22:44] JimBastard: my favorite might be http://bits.limebits.com/home/
[22:45] KungFuHamster: defunct, unless they cleaned up
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[22:50] technoweenie: Contribute to the world's first open-source site maker
[22:50] gingivitis: hey guys, why is it called *node*.js ?
[22:51] rolfb: because they don't like DJs
[22:51] rolfb: hence
[22:51] rolfb: No D[e].JS
[22:52] gingivitis: it'd be so much cooler if that were true
[22:52] JimBastard: it is
[22:52] gingivitis: i'd be so much cooler if i knew when i was being gullible
[22:53] JimBastard_: i think i might learn R this weekend
[22:54] Tim_Smart has joined the channel
[22:54] JimBastard_: im antsy to get some performance graphs going for JSLINQ
[22:54] rolfb: R?
[22:54] derRichard: rolfb: a strange but powerful language
[22:54] JimBastard_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_(programming_language)
[22:54] JimBastard_: the math nerds where i work are all about it
[22:54] rolfb: sounds like the beginning of a story
[22:54] inimino: 
ACTION recommends R

[22:55] rolfb: It is an implementation of the S programming language with lexical scoping semantics inspired by Scheme.
[22:55] rolfb: good thing they didn't go overboard with the ASCII
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[23:06] rolfb: JimBastard_: looks like fun, wish I knew of it 5 years ago
[23:06] JimBastard: R?
[23:06] rolfb: yes
[23:06] JimBastard: aye
[23:06] mscdex: C!
[23:06] mscdex: :-D
[23:08] rolfb: i think it's weird no developer every made the ... "πrate Language"
[23:08] rolfb: s/every/ever
[23:08] rolfb: also i should have googled before stating that
[23:09] rolfb: but i won't
[23:09] rolfb: it's probably a great name for a pie-chart tool
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[23:15] derRichard: cu
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[23:17] mscdex: hrm... i'm writing a node addon (that extends EventEmitter), but I'm not sure how I can hook into the main event loop? There is a library function call that returns whether data is available or not, and if there is I want to be able to emit an event
[23:19] mscdex: is that essentially the private Event() method in _ry's postgres binding?
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[23:24] mikeal: mjr_: up for some Trappist?
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[23:38] saikat: if i have data saved as a buffer, and i read the data, encode it as binary string, process it as binary data, then write it back as a buffer, is there a chance of my data getting mangled?
[23:39] saikat: i'm trying to patch node-compress to use buffers instead of binary strings, but in the meantime, it works if i just encode my data as a binary string before passing it to node-compress
[23:40] saikat: but i'm wondering if that is setting me up for some kind of failure in the future
[23:40] JimBastard: performance hit?
[23:41] saikat: yeah other than performance hit
[23:41] saikat: it's not significant enough to make a difference in my app in the short-term
[23:42] saikat: but if the data itself gets mangled in odd cases, that would be very bad
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[23:59] tmpvar: isaacs, damn, we really need to get people to add a package.json to their projects
[23:59] isaacs: tmpvar: INORITE!
[23:59] tmpvar: im looking to do an example with jsdom, and i want it to be super simple like.. get npm, install example, run