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[00:17] micheil: hmm... true
[00:17] micheil: isaacs: do you have some test caes for these methods?
[00:19] micheil: does anyone know of something similar to irb for node?
[00:36] micheil: isaacs: http://github.com/isaacs/node/commit/cbfdc57bda72ce5493ca35712d596005918d107a#comment_39321
[00:37] cloudhead: micheil: node-repl
[00:37] cloudhead: except you need rlwrap to make it useable
[00:39] micheil: uhhh... okay
[00:40] micheil: 
ACTION wait's for macports to be done

[00:41] micheil: cloudhead: nice stuff!
[00:42] cloudhead: yeh
[00:42] micheil: it doesn't support arrow key navigation though :(
[00:42] cloudhead: its a bit clunky yea
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[00:43] micheil: oh well, thanks for sharing, none-the-less
[00:46] isaacs: micheil: there are a few cases where we need to do a toString(), i think
[00:47] isaacs: but i guess Array::join() does that anyhow, huh?
[00:47] micheil: hmm..
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[00:47] micheil: i think so
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[00:47] micheil: 
ACTION just deleted his test code..

[00:47] isaacs: also, it does need to do the exports.resolve()
[00:48] micheil: isaacs: I'm sorta rewriting parts of the code with another project I'm doing
[00:48] micheil: oh, yeah, whoops, put the array normalizer back in, my bad there.
[00:48] isaacs: yeah Array.prototype.join.call(arguments, "/")
[00:48] isaacs: that works fine
[00:49] isaacs: so:
[00:49] isaacs:   exports.join = function () {
[00:49] isaacs:     return exports.normalize(Array.prototype.join.call(arguments, "/"));
[00:49] isaacs:   };
[00:49] micheil: http://github.com/isaacs/node/commit/cbfdc57bda72ce5493ca35712d596005918d107a#comment_39324
[00:49] micheil: yeah
[00:50] isaacs: not normalizeArray, since it's not an array, but yeah
[00:50] micheil: 
ACTION is moving on to analyising normaliePath now

[00:50] isaacs: calling normalizeArray on a string is a weird thing
[00:50] micheil: woah, I misspelt that, didn't I?
[00:51] micheil: normalizeArray would surely be a normal think for those into Objective-J
[00:51] micheil: (sorry, just had to throw that out there.)
[00:51] micheil: ;P
[00:51] micheil: umm.. how about normalizePath()
[00:51] micheil: which is really what it's doing
[00:52] isaacs: micheil: it's silly to put path in the name, since it's in the path module already
[00:52] isaacs: require("path").normalizePath?
[00:52] micheil: oh, true
[00:53] isaacs: path.normalize is fine, i think
[00:53] micheil: no, actually. path.normalise, just becasue I speak english.
[00:53] micheil: *because
[00:53] micheil: =P
[00:53] isaacs: oh, like, old timey euro english?
[00:53] isaacs: not the new hot american english?
[00:54] micheil: isaacs: I'm an aussie, not a euro boy.
[00:54] isaacs: micheil: i'm from the usa, so afaik, australia is in europe.
[00:55] micheil: isaacs: good point, I'm just having a dig.. ;p
[00:55] isaacs: it's in central europe, between germany and italy.  and there are kangaroos.
[00:56] inimino: heh
[01:00] micheil: I don't know why, but I find the current Assert module really tacky.. I mean, rather then just printing the error and continuing, it just goes kablam!
[01:01] micheil: isaacs: http://twitter.com/miksago/status/6845181398
[01:02] isaacs: var sys = require("sys"), a = require("assert"); for (var i in a) { exports[i] = function () { var r; try { r = a[i].apply(this, arguments) } catch (ex) { r = ex; sys.error("Assertion failure: "+ex.message); } finally { return r } } }
[01:02] isaacs: micheil: put that in "niceassert.js" and you're done
[01:03] isaacs: personally, i find the stack trace rather nice.
[01:05] inimino: that's what failed assertions are /supposed/ to do
[01:08] isaacs: micheil: heh, thanks for not attributing.  i'd hate for someone to actually think i didn't know where australia was.
[01:08] micheil: isaacs: I've got another patch
[01:08] isaacs: it's in an ocean somewhere, right?
[01:09] isaacs: micheil: k, what's that?
[01:09] micheil: cbfdc57bda72ce5493ca35712d596005918d107a
[01:09] micheil: erm
[01:09] micheil: http://github.com/isaacs/node/commit/cbfdc57bda72ce5493ca35712d596005918d107a#comment_39325
[01:09] isaacs: ah, i see it now
[01:09] micheil: ignore the exports.var normalize
[01:09] micheil: that's a pasting error.
[01:09] isaacs: yeah, explicit pasting
[01:09] micheil: the rest works
[01:10] micheil: but that should be a little quicker
[01:10] micheil: it's also tidier imo.
[01:11] isaacs: well, parts.shift() is out, and testing the assignment isn't good.
[01:12] isaacs: can't mutate the argument, and you might have ["foo", "", "bar"] which should be normalized to "foo/bar", but your code will do just "foo" because when it hits the empty item, it'll abort.
[01:13] micheil: hmm..
[01:13] isaacs: also, shift() isn't relevantly faster than just comparing a number.
[01:13] micheil: so it does.. hmm..
[01:14] isaacs: speaking of which, i don't handle empty dirs here.
[01:14] micheil: lol
[01:17] isaacs: http://github.com/isaacs/node/commit/83b0b7ff960b6f2e83f0d27f3168ed9572d98545
[01:17] micheil: righteo.. almost fixced
[01:18] isaacs: also, it doesn't matter where the "var" statement is in teh fn, just that it's in the fn
[01:18] micheil: pretty much the same now: http://github.com/isaacs/node/commit/83b0b7ff960b6f2e83f0d27f3168ed9572d98545#comment_39326
[01:18] isaacs: oh, wait, that's borked.  broke initial slash dirs.
[01:19] isaacs:  /foo/bar is "", "foo", "bar"
[01:19] micheil: that needs to be an else if I think
[01:19] isaacs: no it doesn't
[01:19] isaacs: the continue skips over the rest of the loop
[01:21] isaacs: http://github.com/isaacs/node/commit/935acb7427c9cc68221f9cd0ace7dbc5159ee0bb
[01:22] micheil: http://github.com/isaacs/node/commit/83b0b7ff960b6f2e83f0d27f3168ed9572d98545#comment_39327
[01:22] isaacs: is there a way to do bigger diffs on github?  ie, more than just one commit?
[01:22] micheil: mine works fine there
[01:22] micheil: use the else if
[01:22] isaacs: micheil: that's equivalent to mine.
[01:22] isaacs: what's the advantage of the else if?
[01:23] isaacs: it's the same logic path?
[01:23] micheil: it's more strict, won't let the stray path through
[01:24] isaacs: what do you mean by "more strict"?
[01:24] micheil: well, it just looks better too
[01:25] micheil: just to note, I'm testing using:
[01:25] micheil: var tryTest = normalize(["", "test", "..", "test2", "test3", ".", "test", "", "test4"]);
[01:25] micheil: => test2,test3,test,test4
[01:26] isaacs: yeah, my latest update would keep the initial "" element
[01:26] isaacs: otherwise /foo/bar turns into "foo/bar"
[01:26] micheil: ah
[01:26] isaacs: which is wrong
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[01:26] micheil: uh
[01:26] micheil: what just happened to colloquy.. it just close the channel
[01:26] micheil: umm..
[01:27] micheil: yeah, true that was wrong
[01:27] isaacs: micheil: it does that.
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[01:28] micheil: righteo, patched mine
[01:29] micheil: 935acb7427c9cc68221f9cd0ace7dbc5159ee0bb
[01:29] micheil: erm
[01:29] micheil: http://github.com/isaacs/node/commit/935acb7427c9cc68221f9cd0ace7dbc5159ee0bb#comment_39328
[01:29] isaacs: micheil: ok, well, if we're in agreement about the functionality and just debating prettiness, then i think that means we're done here.  thanks for your help.
[01:29] micheil: heh, true
[01:30] micheil: just remember that path has a string method normalize
[01:30] isaacs: you should pretty much be using path.join() for most things, anyhow
[01:30] isaacs: that'll take any two paths and return a new clean path.
[01:31] micheil: true
[01:31] micheil: actually, it'll take X paths
[01:31] isaacs: oh, right
[01:31] isaacs: any number of paths.
[01:31] isaacs: > 0
[01:32] micheil: :P
[01:33] micheil: uh, does uri_parse work?
[01:34] micheil: it's been a while since I've done regexp's so I'm probably just reading it wrong
[01:35] isaacs: micheil: according to my tests, yeah
[01:35] micheil: isaacs: btw, http://github.com/Miksago/node.js-testkit
[01:35] micheil: it's no where near a code review yet, but I think it's showing value
[01:36] isaacs: that's good.  everyone should build a test framework at some point in their lives :)
[01:36] micheil: isaacs: it's mainly to try and replace mjsunit and such
[01:37] micheil: sane testing for node.
[01:37] isaacs: now that i learned about "make test", i'm sort of liking whatever it is that we have.
[01:37] isaacs: writing tests for it is great.  just name the file test-blarg.js, and then throw an error if it fails.
[01:37] isaacs: then make test runs everything.
[01:37] micheil: isaacs: yeah, make test works for node testing, but not for testing stuff built with node
[01:38] micheil: 
ACTION <3's Makefiles

[01:40] micheil: bbl.
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[02:11] micheil: hm.
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[02:22] cloudhead: anyone got a reliable isA() function?
[02:24] micheil: isA()?
[02:24] micheil: as in isArray?
[02:24] cloudhead: yea
[02:24] cloudhead: but for all types
[02:24] cloudhead: so
[02:24] cloudhead: isA(Object)
[02:24] cloudhead: etc
[02:24] micheil: oh
[02:25] micheil: dojo toolkit has a fairly split up version
[02:26] micheil: you'd just need to do: return Object === Expected || Object instanceOf Expected
[02:26] micheil: or something
[02:26] inimino: cloudhead: what do you need that instanceof doesn't do?
[02:27] cloudhead: inimino: "hello" instanceof String // false
[02:28] inimino: of course, it's not an object
[02:28] cloudhead: there you go : )
[02:28] cloudhead: I don't care about the implementation
[02:28] cloudhead: I want to know if it behaves like a string
[02:28] cloudhead: and looks like a string
[02:28] inimino: so... you want typeof instead?
[02:29] inimino: typeof x == 'string', then
[02:29] cloudhead: typeof [] // object
[02:29] inimino: that's why isArray implementations exist
[02:29] cloudhead: yeh
[02:30] cloudhead: I'm looking for a function which takes an argument, being the type you want to check it with
[02:30] cloudhead: so a combination of all the isX functions
[02:30] inimino: :/
[02:30] inimino: ok
[02:30] cloudhead: might just combine them myself
[02:30] micheil: This is duck typing.
[02:30] jan____: cloudhead: http://javascript.crockford.com/remedial.html
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[02:30] inimino: I consider that a really hideous and anti-JavaScript API, but whatever
[02:31] jan____: well, is has reliably type detection functions
[02:31] jan____: *reliable
[02:31] inimino: yeah, that typeOf is probably a slightly better idea
[02:32] jan____ has left the channel
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[02:32] jan____: janfail, what was your reply?
[02:32] cloudhead: jan____: thanks, that's perfect
[02:33] jan____: inimino: ^-
[02:33] inimino: I said:
[02:33] inimino: yeah, that typeOf is probably a slightly better idea
[02:33] jan____: thansk
[02:33] jan____: apparently, I shouldn't use this keyboard
[02:33] inimino: what's wrong with it?
[02:34] jan____: I think it is me and the late hour
[02:34] inimino: :)
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[02:45] isaacs: cloudhead: i did something like that once upon a time for a querystring module
[02:45] isaacs: check out "is" in http://github.com/isaacs/querystring.node.js/blob/master/util.js
[02:45] isaacs: it's not doing instanceof, though
[02:46] isaacs: mostly, it was to determine that "foo" is a string, and so is new String("foo")
[02:46] isaacs: (where the second typeof's as "object")
[02:48] inimino: I hope you don't have any new String() in your own code...
[02:49] cloudhead: isaacs: thanks, will check it out
[02:49] isaacs: you could also check yui's "Lang" module. http://github.com/yui/yui3/blob/master/src/yui/js/yui-lang.js
[03:08] elliottcable: fffffffffffff
[03:08] elliottcable: I fly out some time tomorrow
[03:08] elliottcable: I have no idea what time, or on what flight
[03:08] elliottcable: I can’t reach Travelocity (who never sent me any confirmation data on my e-mail addy), nor any of the airlines I think my flight may be with, because they all have wait timesmeasured in hours.
[03:09] elliottcable: was on hold with Travelocity for 3.5 hours, only to have my call dropped O_O;
[03:10] inimino: o_O
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[03:15] elliottcable: fffff
[03:15] elliottcable: and I haven’t slept in quite a while. Trying to not fall out of my chair at this goddamned slow jazz hold music
[03:18] elliottcable: Finally got through to Alaska Airlines… they don’t have me registered for any flights o.o
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[08:29] ryanmcgrath: Dunno who's awake in here, but I'm interested in some feedback in this web framework (I know everyone's probably seen this a dozen times by now ;P) I've been working on...
[08:29] ryanmcgrath: http://github.com/ryanmcgrath/luno
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[10:43] hassox: hallo
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[10:49] ryanmcgrath: Ah, wow, I had to drive someone to the airport, totally missed anything anybody said to me before. x_o;
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[12:20] elliottcable: lol
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[12:55] elliottcable: felixge!
[12:55] felixge: elliottcable: ?
[12:55] elliottcable: 
ACTION shrugs

[12:55] elliottcable: am at the airport, and *extremely* bored
[12:58] felixge: elliottcable: I just added node head to the hombrew formula
[12:58] felixge: http://github.com/felixge/homebrew/commit/b4d3dc2bfd489469947142b2673acb5386030da4
[12:58] elliottcable: felixge: Um, that’s not how it works
[12:58] felixge: didn't update to 0.1.22 - that release is broken
[12:58] elliottcable: felixge: head is only for when you don’t have a stable package
[12:59] felixge: elliottcable: doesn't say that on the brew wiki
[12:59] felixge: elliottcable: I actually think that it is how it works
[12:59] felixge: because if I do "brew install node" it will use the tar
[12:59] felixge: if I do "brew install node -h" it will use git
[13:04] elliottcable: Ah, the -h flag must be new
[13:04] elliottcable: felixge: ^^
[13:04] elliottcable: felixge: I’ve been working in Homebrew for a long time; I haven’t kept up with the latest features.
[13:04] elliottcable: felixge: Hell, the DLS methods syntax is new to me, I’m used to ivars.
[13:22] micheil: homebrew looks useful
[13:26] elliottcable: micheil: it’s great.
[13:26] micheil: cool
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[14:28] elliottcable: Hah, that’s pretty slick.
[14:28] elliottcable: http://gist.github.com/260502
[14:28] elliottcable: Those 6 lines allowed me to reduce the rest of my code by about 60%
[14:28] elliottcable: #win
[14:29] hornbeck: nice
[14:29] elliottcable: o7 hornbeck. What’s up?
[14:29] hornbeck: not much
[14:29] hornbeck: you?
[14:30] elliottcable: Hacking at `from`
[14:30] elliottcable: sitting in #SEA
[14:30] elliottcable: waiting for my plane, still about 3 hours away
[14:30] hornbeck: that's always fun
[14:30] hornbeck: where you heading?
[14:31] elliottcable: Anchorage, aka home.
[14:31] hornbeck: ahh
[14:31] elliottcable: Been traipsing around the US the last month or so
[14:32] elliottcable: RubyConf in SF, then Greensboro, then Wilmington, now Seattle, and finally headed back home
[14:32] hornbeck: always fun
[14:33] elliottcable: Feynman!
[14:33] elliottcable: Shit, I wish I had headphones.
[14:33] elliottcable: I was arguing quantum physics and machine sentience with some dude last night.
[14:33] hornbeck: nice
[14:33] elliottcable: Somehow it carried over to breakfast, and got the dude cooking my omlette involved.
[14:33] elliottcable: From there, it deteriorated into religion. Meh >,>
[14:34] elliottcable: Moral of this story: Don’t bring the cook at your local 24-hour diner into scientific discussions. He will ruin it for everybody.
[14:34] hornbeck: haha
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[14:41] elliottcable: brandon_beacher: Caught in the reolving door, are we?
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[15:02] JimBastard: ugh
[15:02] JimBastard: im stopping at 799 lines for this contest
[15:02] JimBastard: i swore i wouldn't go over 800
[15:02] JimBastard: sooo many javascripts
[15:02] micheil: contest?
[15:02] JimBastard: dop.io hackathon
[15:02] JimBastard: drop.io
[15:02] JimBastard: ugh
[15:03] JimBastard: 799 lines of JS in 48 hours make me sleepy
[15:03] JimBastard: thank god for mustache.js
[15:03] JimBastard: saved me a few hundred lines
[15:04] elliottcable: lol
[15:04] elliottcable: what contest?
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[15:05] JimBastard: drop.io hackathon
[15:05] JimBastard: im gonna do a presentation at the corporate offices later today. ill make sure #node.js gets some creds
[15:06] JimBastard: ive been bragging about my all JS stack
[15:06] elliottcable: … hahaha
[15:06] elliottcable: coo
[15:06] jan____: JimBastard: you're welcome :)
[15:07] djangomg has joined the channel
[15:07] JimBastard: thanks jan!
[15:07] maritz: hi. i just cloned the express framework and wanted to try out the example. however each time i run "node example/app.js" i don't get anything. i have now completely deleted the contents of app.js and written "require('sys'); sys.puts('test');" in it, and it still doesn't give any output at all. my node install still works with other scripts though. what the hell might be going on here?
[15:07] JimBastard: mustache.js makes soo much sense
[15:07] elliottcable: Mustache.js, eh?
[15:07] elliottcable: Lemme guess, clone o defunkt’s templating system?
[15:07] jan____: JimBastard: I know! that's why I had to write it
[15:07] jan____: elliottcable: yes.
[15:08] elliottcable: Now I just need to get our friendly neighbourhood Holm to come write his templating layer in Node.js, and we’ll be all set for templating
[15:08] JimBastard: views are gonna get complicated, so let them suport javascripts
[15:08] jan____: elliottcable: mustache.js should run in node
[15:08] djangomg: Hi folks, wondering if there is an easy way to resize images using nodejs? - just wondering how the framework will size up in terms of other server side coding frameworks that have lots of "batteries included" such as python (of course I realize this framework is very new)
[15:08] JimBastard: it does
[15:08] JimBastard: yo djangomg maybe use GD or image magick>
[15:08] jan____: cool, js ftw
[15:08] JimBastard: you could read binary files i guess....
[15:09] djangomg: JimBastard: yeah I guess an extension could be written to easily shell out to GD or Magick
[15:09] maritz: anyone any ideas about my problem? i'm going to lose my sanity over this :/
[15:10] elliottcable: maritz: I don’t use express, dude, sorry.
[15:10] JimBastard: i dont like reinventing wheels, im incredbily lazy
[15:10] JimBastard: also im pretty drunk
[15:10] maritz: at this point it doesn't have anything to do with express, since i deleted the entire file contents
[15:10] maritz: i even copied it some place else (my home dir) and it still doesn't work.
[15:11] djangomg: my challenge is finding a server side framework that can run on the client side - so having everything in one package with the least amount of dependencies works for me
[15:11] JimBastard: node can do that
[15:12] JimBastard: ive been using mustache.js + node.js to have templates that can render ast JSON  or HTML framments
[15:12] elliottcable: Hah, so awesome.
[15:12] elliottcable: http://github.com/elliottcable/poopy.js/commit/82cebc460925e34a4e0919b3b2bb5aee48a24efa#diff-0
[15:12] JimBastard: then the client can render the JSON docuemnts as HTML fragments, client-side
[15:12] JimBastard: poopy.js?
[15:12] djangomg: true - this I know... I'm actually talking about building a p2p distributed network with nodejs as the base
[15:13] djangomg: mostly message passing using json between nodes
[15:13] elliottcable: JimBastard: http://github.com/elliottcable/poopy.js#readme
[15:13] djangomg: rendering content with moustache/templating engine on each client
[15:14] JimBastard: yo djangomgn
[15:14] JimBastard: are you implementing the BT protocol in node.js?
[15:15] JimBastard: caus id give you a cookie and some internet dollars
[15:15] djangomg: lol
[15:15] JimBastard: thats cool elliottcable
[15:15] JimBastard: i see
[15:16] JimBastard: im not the biggest fan on the "prototype" keyword
[15:16] JimBastard: im more of a singleton guy
[15:16] elliottcable: JimBastard: eww.
[15:16] JimBastard: lolz
[15:16] elliottcable: 
ACTION is big on true prototypalism.

[15:16] elliottcable: Clean, purist prototypal, eventual programming: The holy grail, IMHO.
[15:16] elliottcable: What Node.js is bringing us closer to.
[15:17] JimBastard: whatever....lazy init + dependentcy injection
[15:17] JimBastard: :p
[15:18] JimBastard: ive got to warn you , im unusually drunk for a sunday morning ir csession
[15:18] elliottcable: lol
[15:18] elliottcable: 
ACTION hasn’t slept more than 5 hours in like 3 days, and is hacking like mad

[15:18] JimBastard: ahahaha
[15:18] elliottcable: so don’t expect *me* to be al ot *more* coherent.
[15:18] elliottcable: a lot*
[15:18] JimBastard: i got too tired to code so switched to ppt mode
[15:19] elliottcable: Powerpoint mode? o_O
[15:19] JimBastard: :p
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[15:21] micheil: wow... brew is a thing of beauty...
[15:22] JimBastard: JimBastard's Law: You cannot write more then 50 lines of production JS per hour for more then 16 hours without going craaaazy
[15:22] jan____: JimBastard: awesome grew faster, but that was just filling in blanks.
[15:22] elliottcable: micheil: yep.
[15:22] elliottcable: JimBastard: lies.
[15:23] JimBastard: this was mostly non-framework framework code
[15:23] JimBastard: the un-glue
[15:23] elliottcable: JimBastard: Well, hm. Actually, I may already be creazy.
[15:23] elliottcable: JimBastard: In which case, your law would still hold true.
[15:23] JimBastard: huzzah
[15:23] elliottcable: anyway, all, time to pack up and go stand in line to check my baggage.
[15:23] JimBastard: peace
[15:23] micheil: just trying to remove the damn macports now
[15:24] elliottcable: micheil: `rm -rf /opt/local`, problem solved.
[15:24] elliottcable: but yeah, bbl all.
[15:24] elliottcable: When I’m back in Anchorage!
[15:24] elliottcable: Alaska… I miss you v.v
[15:24] JimBastard: alaskowned
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[15:30] maritz: what framework do you think is the best right now and has the best chances to survive? i though express looked rather good, until i saw the authors rant about using semicolons in serverside js in some node commit. now i'm not too confident in his abilities anymore :D
[15:31] mediacoder: maritz: hehe, there are a lot out there.. id suggest go modular tho
[15:31] mediacoder: like get a routing framework maybe.. and for other tasks get appropriate modules od write them
[15:31] maritz: what do you mean "go modular"?
[15:31] maritz: oh, ok
[15:32] mediacoder: this evolves into your "own" thing :-)
[15:32] maritz: maintaining that would require a lot of work though. (if you want to keep all your modules up2date)
[15:32] mediacoder: yes, thats right..but also you never know if the framework of chois is being kept up to date
[15:33] maritz: the same thing holds true for modules, doesn't it? ;)=
[15:33] JimBastard: i would say go with the most popular framework and contribute.....
[15:33] micheil: ugh.. that took a while.
[15:33] JimBastard: express....
[15:33] mediacoder: well, yea, sure ..but it might be easier to replace my currently unmaintained session-module with somebody elses and make some minor api changes
[15:34] maritz: mediacoder: that is true.
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[15:34] mediacoder: but yea, visionmedia puts much effort into express, i presonally also dont like the style he uses tho
[15:36] maritz: JimBastard: Of course contributing is essential. And I'd pick express. However I cannot contribute in a project where the standard is to omit semicolons and curly braces where ever possible. That would make me die of a brain aneurysm in less than a week.
[15:36] JimBastard: yeah i hate that tooo.....
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[15:37] JimBastard: im sending inimino a semi-colon key for xmas
[15:37] maritz: Besides that, my IDE hates it too and won't tolerate it... :x
[15:38] inimino: get an IDE that isn't broken
[15:38] maritz: Well... I'll play around with express for a while. When the headaches start, I can reevaluate.
[15:38] micheil: JimBastard: I'm sending him a keyboard of semi-colon keys then ;P
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[15:38] JimBastard: yeah...technically semi-colons are optional....but id ont believe it
[15:38] maritz: Which one would you suggest for javascript?
[15:39] micheil: textmate :D
[15:39] inimino: I don't use an IDE, but I hear there are a lot to choose from
[15:39] inimino: 
ACTION recommends vim

[15:39] JimBastard: no suggestions, im not using a frawework for now....
[15:39] maritz: It's not that my ide can't read it or marks it as an error. It's that the auto-format feature will remove some spaces/indents that it shouldn't... :/
[15:39] micheil: vim is good if you like configuring stuff
[15:39] JimBastard: but notepad for editing ftw
[15:40] micheil: maritz: I'm just against no semicolons because it makes debugging easier
[15:40] maritz: How?
[15:40] micheil: language punctation enhances readablity
[15:41] inimino: micheil: that's subjective
[15:41] maritz: Yes, misread your msg. Thought you said you are against semicolons. I totally agree. Looking at code without semicolons/braces makes no sense to me. :D
[15:42] inimino: (some of us think unneeded syntactic noise reduces readability)
[15:42] inimino: in any case, someone's opinion on code formatting is a damn silly reason to use or not use their project
[15:43] maritz: Not if you want to contribute to whatever project you use. But I agree, that there are more important factors in making the decision.
[15:43] inimino: you need to know the semicolon insertion rules whether you use them or not, so I suggest learning the language syntax and getting over your aesthetic differences
[15:43] JimBastard: lolz
[15:44] maritz: How come this discussion tends to go in the direction of accusing the opposite of not knowing shit about the language and being an idiot? :D
[15:46] inimino: if you can't read code without semicolons, you don't know the ASI rule
[15:46] inimino: and that means you don't know the language syntax, and you'll occasionally be bitten by it even if you use semicolons liberally
[15:46] JimBastard: no more cuervasasa
[15:50] maritz: I really don't know what the ASI rule is. Link/Explanation?
[16:08] inimino: maritz: automatic semicolon insertion
[16:09] inimino: and I should have said "rules" not rule
[16:10] inimino: maritz: the best place to look is the ES5 spec, section 7.9
[16:12] inimino: http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST/ECMA-262.pdf
[16:13] maritz: I just didn't know what ASI stands for. I know what you're talking about now, but don't see your point for omitting semicolons.
[16:14] inimino: maritz: my point in mentioning ASI is that you need to understand it whether you use semicolons in your own code or not
[16:14] inimino: the idea that you can just use semicolons and not need to know about ASI is a total red herring
[16:14] maritz: And no one said that?!
[16:15] maritz: Or where you just stating that, completely unconnected to the "discussion"
[16:15] maritz: ?
[16:18] JimBastard: cant sleep clowns will eat me
[16:18] inimino: maritz: well, if you understand the rules, I would expect you can read the code without 'dying of a brain aneurysm', or even getting terribly confused
[16:19] JimBastard: is that when your brain assplodes?
[16:19] maritz: It's not that I can't read it. It's that I and a lot of other people find it easier to read. Just because I understand the semantics of french/chinese/japanese, doesn't make it easier for me to read than english.
[16:20] maritz: (disclaimer: I actually have no clue about chinese/japanese and only speak a little french. :P )
[16:21] inimino: hehe, ok
[16:23] maritz: On the same notion: I understand how haikus are build and can read them. However I find it painful to switch lines so often without an implied contextual change. I somehow need to reevaluate whether the last line has anything to do with the current line in most haikus. (I believe this may be a better analogy)
[16:24] maritz: Which is not even to say that I can't enjoy haikus. It just takes longer to read them than reading normal text.
[16:24] maritz: I hope this made it more clear. :)
[16:26] maritz: inimino: Are you visionmedia? Cause I have a question about express. :D
[16:27] inimino: I'm not.
[16:27] inimino: I haven't even looked at express, actually.
[16:27] inimino: but if the indentation is anything like the indentation I use, you won't have to do anything but compare the indentation levels to determine whether one line is a continuation of the previous line or the start of a new statement
[16:29] maritz: It's actually a question about internal error handling. I've figured it out by now. :)
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[17:12] maritz: wtf? somewhere in the execution of express+haml+foreach undefined is defined as "0" and all hell breaks loose.
[17:13] JimBastard: im sorry did you mean mustache.js?
[17:14] maritz: no
[17:15] jan____: JimBastard: if mustache.js had a budget, I'd hire you for evangelist :)
[17:16] maritz: yeah, he got me to read up on it now :D
[17:17] JimBastard: mustache.js is like, guess what your views will always have business logic and its gonna be JS
[17:17] JimBastard: im cool with that
[17:17] JimBastard: mustache.js is getting a shoutout in my presentation later
[17:17] jan____: \o/
[17:18] maritz: I thought you are drunk? Are you giving a presentation while being drunk or is later late enough that you'll be sober again?
[17:19] JimBastard: 404
[17:19] JimBastard: i better sober up
[17:19] JimBastard: its a 3 day hackathon...how am i suppose to not get drunk and stay up
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[17:21] maritz: okay, good point.
[17:21] JimBastard: :p
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[22:49] hassox: good morning lads
[22:49] hassox: and ladies
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[22:55] bryanl: hey hassox
[22:55] bryanl: chains huh
[22:55] hassox: hey bryanl 
[22:56] bryanl: i've been investigating it...  trying to find something to try it with
[22:56] hassox: there's not much that's been implemented yet hey
[22:56] hassox: I want to get a link that does rendering
[22:56] bryanl: :)
[22:56] hassox: then I can have a decent play
[22:57] hassox: did you checkout the examples dir?
[22:57] bryanl: yes.  that is all i looked at really
[22:58] hassox: I tend to want to have some basic level constraints that I can use to make sure I can re-use stuff
[22:59] hassox: so I wanted something that actually suited node before I started sinking time into writing stuff
[22:59] hassox: I'm very open to feedback to make it awesome
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